Inside the Women’s T20 World Cup: Dunkley and Jones give us the goss!

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Welcome to Test Match Special at the Women's T20 World Cup. I'm Ebony Rainford-Brent, and today we are behind the scenes with England's women. And today we're getting to know the amazing Sophia Dunkley and Amy Jones. To get to know you both, first of all, sun's out. Are you guys a tanner? Like, are you sun worshippers when the sun's out?

I am.

I love the sun. Yeah, but it's a t-shirt tan.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. Like cricket.

Proper cricket tan.

Cricket tans are the worst. For anyone who doesn't know it, obviously the clothing, you always get the tan down. Okay. I want to break the ice a little bit, so I want you to both Give 3 words to describe each other.

Oh, it's just people, not cricketers.

You go where you want.

Amy, I'd say kind, funny, and very talented. Oh, that's 2 words, but thanks. Talented. It's very kind.

Very talented.

Oh, you're welcome.

For Dunks, thoughtful, Um, I say funny as well. And, um, I'm trying to think of a cricket one now. I reckon dynamic.

This is not love here, guys. I mean, this is proper emotional.

I was gonna say irritating.

Amazing. Alright, we want people to get to know you both a bit. Clearly very nice people at the moment. I would have been a little bit more savage. I was gonna say funny. Are we talking 10 out of 10 or are we talking sort of No, funny, she's funny, she's funny. All right, let's talk a bit about your journeys first of all. Dunks, I've heard it, but many people haven't heard how you got into cricket. I know you and your neighbor got stuck in as a young kid, but give us a bit of the journey.

Yeah, so I say my first kind of introduction to cricket would be in the cul-de-sac where I grew up, playing with my next-door neighbor just literally in the street. And yeah, we just used to like chalk up the fence with some wickets, hit a few windows and cars, but I just kind of fell in love with hitting the ball and I'd be out there for hours just, yeah, loving it really. So that was like my first introduction to it.

And were you one of the only girls as well, like when you started with your neighbour and then did you get into club cricket? How did that work?

Yeah, so yeah, I used to be one of the only girls at the club that I used to go to, so with Zach, when I was like 10 or 11, so probably like 20 other boys there and then I joined a girls club like a year after, but yeah, for a while it was just me and the boys. So yeah, it was fun, I enjoyed it at the time, but obviously you do feel a bit like an outsider at times and the teams like always saying, "Oh, like don't let the girl get you out," and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was nice to kind of find a girls' club where you feel connected to the people and everything.

What about you, Amy? What was your early days into the game?

I think mainly just playing a lot of sport generally as a kid and then sort of got into cricket because I played a lot of football and the people I played football with played cricket. So it was more, yeah, like similar to Dunks, like influence from friends and then just got pretty lucky really in my local club, like 5-10 minutes away, had already had like a good women's and girls' section, which is kind of like quite special really considering like back then there weren't many. So very lucky that sort of fell into that. But also just enjoyed like most of my friends were boys, so still played a lot of boys' cricket growing up, which I think was quite cool as well. But good to have both options. Yeah.

And what were you guys like? I have 3 older brothers, so I was quite competitive when I played with the boys growing up. What were you like when you were sort of one of the girls playing in the boys' teams or playing with Zach? How did you find that?

Yeah, I think I didn't really think about it being different. It was kind of normal for me, so I just kind of got stuck in really. And yeah, I guess the other teams found it more intimidating, so they didn't want to get out to a girl. So yeah, but I was so lucky with the people that I was with that they included me so much and they celebrated me and they loved having me around, which was really great. Yeah, I just tried to get stuck in really and get competitive and just felt really good when I hit them for fours. Gotta love a four.

What about you, Amy?

Yeah, very similar. I think it's quite funny. I think when you've— in the team that you're in, like all the boys I played with were very supportive, very protective, and it's only really, I think, yeah, opposition teams really where you kind of think, oh, it becomes more of a thing, or teams without girls in really. So I think once you're stuck in with the team, I was very, yeah, well accepted, which was cool.

Amazing. And what about now? You guys are living the dream as professional athletes. What have been some of your highlights as players so far? I mean, you've been part of World Cups, you've travelled the world, what have you enjoyed the most?

Loving travelling for me has been really fun and getting to see so many different places in the world and travelling like with some of your best friends and creating those memories. I think it's been really awesome and also kind of meeting people around the world that maybe you wouldn't have crossed paths with Yeah, I think the connection part of the sport has been really fun and yeah, just sharing those memories and like for us this summer is another amazing time where hopefully creates some more memories and I think obviously sport and cricket as well, like there's a lot of outcomes but at the end of your career the things you hold on to probably aren't, you know, how many runs you get but more just like what you did and the people you met. So yeah, I find that really special.

Yeah, I think connection is a huge one. It's got to be the best job in the world, hasn't it? Like, like Dunk says, traveling around with a group of friends, basically playing a game for a living is unbelievable. I think the, I guess the things that stand out are, you know, evening games at the Oval, places like that where it's packed out. You can see sort of, yeah, the impact you're having on people as a team and yeah, how much they're loving coming out and watching you. And when you get the win, sort of the elation on everyone's faces as well as looking around the dressing room, I think it's really cool how, yeah, the impact you can have.

You mentioned friendships a moment ago. So Katherine Siverbrunt, who we all know, former England cricketer. I heard a rumour that she is or used to be your landlord. Is this true?

Yeah, a long time ago now. But yeah, when we were at uni, Nat and Katherine together bought a house and we all lived in it and got, so me and Beth Langston at the time, we were, yeah, I guess we, yeah, they were our landlords, so we got mates' rates. They looked after us. But yeah, I've since flown the nest and lived my own life.

Was it carnage? I mean, I can't remember if I lived with a lot of the other cricketers. I mean, it'd just be so fun, but it'd be carnage, right?

Yeah, it's funny. It's like all we've known, we've literally since uni. Yeah. So we just all, we lived together for so long. Like, I really think we, yeah, we clung on to that, but it was great fun. Yeah, I think we're quite good at switching off, so there wasn't loads of cricket chat, but it was, I just remember it being so much fun, to be honest.

You live with any of the girls or?

I live with some of the domestic girls, so Tara Norris, Aoife O'Kerrill. Yeah, a good stint at uni, which is really fun.

I can imagine.

Yeah, it's good times.

Save some of those stories for the next podcast. Alright, let's talk a bit more about some of your cricket. Well, first of all, you were the first Black woman to play Test cricket for England. How did that feel? Did it mean anything? Did it not? Did you even know? Like, what was that like?

Yeah, well, yeah, funny because like the day of the game and stuff, I didn't really know that that was, yeah, the case on the day. I was always like just nervous, debut, just trying to watch the ball.

Gonna be here for 4 days.

So yeah, I think at the end of the day kind of found out, and I think it's something that more I've reflected on like as the game finished and I kind of sat back and realized kind of what a cool achievement it was and Yeah, I think, you know, obviously when people, you hear that you've inspired people, you don't really kind of feel like you're doing that by playing. But I think kind of sitting back and reflecting on it was really special to kind of feel that and just to know that it does make an impact, which is great. And hopefully in the future it's just like so-and-so plays Test cricket for England and it doesn't have to be a massive deal around it. But I think the fact that it is inspiring is really great. And yeah, it's just a really nice memory for me to sit back on.

And you've got a few good memories as well. 2018, you made your way into the T20 World Cup in the West Indies. I hear there's a story to ask about how that all came about.

Tell me about it.

I don't know, I heard there is one. Was that your first, was that her first call-up?

Was that your first call-up?

Yeah, it was my first call-up, yeah.

I mean, you tell me, what was that like? Your first?

Yeah, well, I don't know what the story is, but I remember getting a call and being very, very shocked. It kind of, I've kind of been around the group for a little bit training, but in no way did I think that I was ever going to be in the squad, so I don't know, probably still on the phone to Finchy at the time when he told me. I think he said something like, 'Oh, I hope your passport's in date.' What the hell? But yeah, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, out of the blue for me. And obviously I've been playing at Surrey Stars at the time, like kind of, I suppose, kind of making my mark a little bit in that and coming off the back of that. So yeah, it was just, yeah, it was a whirlwind for me. But yeah, absolutely loved it and such a cool place to play cricket in the West Indies. The crowds were amazing and we got to the final as well. So really cool experience. I think looking back, like, yeah, I didn't really take that all in, to be honest, but Yeah, really another great memory.

The Surrey Stars was the Little Mix era, wasn't it? Do you remember the song Power by Little Mix?

We used to be obsessed with that.

Yeah, this team were obsessed with it. I love Power. And I was like looking after the team and every day they were like, Ebs, can you get Little Mix to come down and sing to us? I was like, no, it's not going to happen.

We used to love that song.

You guys loved that. So yeah, that was the Little Mix era that got you into the England squad.

The Power era.

Amy, what about you? When was your first World Cup? T20 World Cup debut, because you've been in the squad for a little while, but when would your first have been?

T20? Yeah. So in 2013 I didn't play and I ran the drinks in Sri Lanka. That was actually very cool. So then I think I got called in, I got called in to play the game before the semi-final and then the semi-final and the final. So it was quite, yeah, a bit different really not playing the lead up to the big games. But obviously back then I was a bit in and out of the team sort of just batting only, obviously with Sarah keeping. So yeah, it was a bit different. I think it was cool to— I couldn't— yeah, I remember, you know, the semi-final and the final in particular, just being so young, I think. I don't know, I think you feel nervous but also not overly. I don't know really, just sort of excited to be there and just sort of happy to be there really. So it was, yeah, cool. It was a cool experience.

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Talking about that, because it's interesting, because you're— for many people who might not know, you're one of the best in the world, but you had to sit behind another great that we had, Sarah Taylor, for many years, and you were having to, like you say, sometimes run the drinks. What was that experience like of like having to stay in the squad, have to stay competitive. You're behind another one of the best in the world, but you want to be the best in the world. It's a really interesting sporting experience.

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, Sarah was, yeah, the best in the world for sure. And I guess she had a big impact on me and what I wanted to achieve, I guess. I think sort of chasing the best stands you in good stead. So yeah, it definitely was always a challenge. Like, can I get the gloves? It felt a way off, obviously, and some of the things she did were just unbelievable. So yeah, I think a great role model to have and to aspire to be as good as. But yeah, different challenges, I guess. Trying to break in with my batting was, yeah, up and down. Played some Didn't play some, so a bit of a roller coaster. So to sort of, yeah, once, you know, when Sarah retired to sort of get that consistency, sort of really felt like, I guess, almost the start of my career really, like with that consistent element of it.

How does it feel being one of the best keepers in the world now?

That's pretty insane. Yeah, well, yeah, it's great to have the gloves for England. I think it's a huge honour and something that I just absolutely love. I think you know, you're in the game every ball. And I think it poses different challenges. Being the only keeper in the team, I think is cool. It's exciting. It's like sometimes I feel like I get a lot of praise from the girls because they just can't imagine being the wicketkeeper, I guess. Sometimes it's easy wins like that, which I quite like. Pat on the back. But then obviously has its challenges as well. It's pretty Can be pretty hard, but yeah, as I said, it's a huge honour, of course.

You both are batters who like to smash it. Like, is that something that you've always enjoyed, just hitting the ball far, or is it something that you've developed?

Yeah, I think for me it's something that I've always enjoyed and probably like the raw me growing up as a youngster was someone that always just wanted to whack the ball and that was just my instinct really. So every day, every day game I played, just try and whack it. So I think that's probably One of my strengths now, but for a while it was probably a little bit of a weakness because I didn't know when to rein it in a bit. But yeah, I think obviously when I do play for England, opening the batting is something that I love to do and it gives me kind of a license to take advantage of that power play. And yeah, I find it really fun.

I think I'm a bit different. I'm not a big six hitter.

Oh, you've hit some big balls, Amy.

Well, I like to joke with Heather that they're accidental sixes. I think that's the key for me is not trying to do it. If I try and do it, it all goes wrong. Everything, yeah, everything's all out of sync. But yeah, I definitely love timing the ball and always, yeah, you know, hitting a boundary is a great feeling. But yeah, it's pretty cool to watch. So the power that we've got in the team now and, you know, most of the girls, Dunks included, obviously can clear the ropes with ease. So it's, yeah, it's a really exciting time to, yeah, I guess.

Are you all in the gym for the gun show these days? That looks like she's hitting smokes. Amu, you in the gym?

Oh yeah, in the gym all the time. On the bench press.

On the bench press. Okay, a couple of other things I wanted to ask you. Vogue shoot.

Oh yeah.

You were a little bit delayed coming in to meet us today and I heard that you might have been just getting a top up. What's it like being in Vogue?

Yeah, it was a really, really cool experience. Obviously something that doesn't happen every day. Going to Lords for a slightly different thing this time. But yeah, it's awesome. I think sometimes we're not natural models, obviously, as athletes, but we had to turn it on for that day.

Turn up.

Give it a whirl. Follow the instructions as best we could. But yeah, I think obviously such an iconic magazine, so that's really cool, and getting cricket in that is just amazing. I think, you know, we're talking about cricket and how we want it to be cool and be something that people really want to get involved in, and it's like, you know, how football is viewed as and stuff. So I think just having that is amazing, and yeah, it was just a cool experience really. A lot of cameras and A lot of hair and makeup, which is very different, but yeah, it was great.

Could you see yourself strutting the catwalk?

Oh, I don't know about that. We're in cricket kit, so it's quite familiar. I thought we might be in some kind of fancy dress or something, but no, it's good.

It was really good. What was it like in the changing room? Was everyone having a good giggle, but also loving it as well for the big gig?

Yeah, loved it. Yeah, it was such a cool thing for them to be a part of. I think we, yeah, I think most of us were a bit disappointed that you're in your kit. You know, we thought we could have some proper Yeah, I know.

I was ready for something rogue.

Yeah, maybe something rogue. And talking about this tournament coming up, there's a big team which are often the big rivals, Australia. But you're married to an Australian fast bowler. How does that work? Like, she's going to be cheering for you? You're going to be saying no to the Aussies? How does that work?

Yeah, well, she'll definitely be cheering for us. Okay, cool. Although she, so yeah, she doesn't She doesn't shout about that. She probably wouldn't want me to say because she's also very loyal to the Australians. But yeah, she's just retired from cricket now, so hopefully that's, yeah, you know, she's a bit more chill around the competitive side of it. I can't imagine she'll remain impartial, but maybe she'll pretend to.

If it's an England-Australia final, I want to hear that phone call. I know you're supporting us.

Yeah, she will be.

Amazing. Right, I've got some quick Fire for both of you. What was the last gig or event you both went to?

Oh, it's a great question. Gig?

Oh, I went to the Kooks.

Oh yeah, that's indie vibes, right?

Yeah, it was great. It was in Perth, outside venues. Gorgeous.

Yeah, I think mine was Calvin Harris. Oh yeah, really random. When in Pretoria, he was playing. We had a training camp, so yeah.

Are you good goers?

Yeah, if there's an event on, I love to go. We're just very busy, so it's quite hard to piece it all together, but when it fits, absolutely.

Between training. Yeah. All right, another question for you. Funniest moment on a training pitch?

Oh, actually I do have one, but she might get sad if I mention it.

Mention it.

It is when Emma Lamb got stung by a wasp, by a bee, and she pulled her trousers down.

It was on livestream though.

Yeah, livestream.

Oh, she got stuck on her leg or something?

She felt the wasp in her trousers and she just pulled it out and like no one really knew what was going on and that was quite funny.

And eventually—

Yeah, I had my gloves on and I was like running out of oxygen. Yeah, and I got there and as I got there she pulled her trousers down and I was like, I think you've got this covered.

If you weren't a cricketer, what would you be?

I'd love to be, I would love to be a Lioness. I know you can't just, it's not as simple as that, but if I had the skill, yeah, it'd be cool to play football. I think, yeah, that'd be really cool.

Have you played, have we, have we any football coming up through the ranks?

When I was very young, yeah, like under, I stopped when I was 16 and I was sort of, I like to say I peaked at 13. I was playing for Aston Villa and then slowly was, so yeah, my prime was 13.

Dogs?

What do I do? It's a great question. I actually am kind of getting into the F1 at the minute, so I think working in F1 would be pretty cool. Don't know what, but something like that.

Driving?

Maybe not drive, like just be in one of the teams. I just think it's really cool.

So you both keep into the sport.

Yeah, sport theme.

All right, give us one thing that people don't know about you.

Um, I got a grade 3 trumpet. Yeah, not very great at it, but do you ever occasionally? Um, well, so the last time I did was, so I played for Sydney Sixers in the Big Bash and we had a big barbecue and one of the girls had a trumpet which they brought for me to play, so I played Hot Cross Buns. Oh! Little rendition. Classic. And that was the last time.

Might be a feature on this.

That was the last time it's come out, so yeah. If I've got the music book in front of me, I can probably get a tune going. But off the cuff, bit harder. If we've got the tunes, yeah, I'll give you a rendition, yeah.

I'm signed up for this. Something we don't know about you.

I've not got any hidden talents, but I'm very claustrophobic.

Oh, okay.

So I can't go in MRI machines, like, for me.

Press the buzzer.

I'm like, "Get me out." Get me out. Lifts? Lifts, like, if it's really necessary, 'cause also, you know, I don't like climbing up the stairs, so.

What about the one in this hotel?

This hotel, absolutely not. So I actually got so stuck up in it.

It's literally tight.

Tiny little thing.

And you have to hold the button down the whole way.

Oh, what, to keep it see-through?

You have to hold the button down the whole way and you lift up.

So it's a bit creepy.

Yeah, it's creepy.

Not for the faint-hearted.

Thankfully.

And finally, if you could add one skill from a teammate to your own game, what would it be?

Ooh, I would go Dani Wyatt Hodge. I think just like how she just steps and hits over cover with Absolute ease, doesn't even get us over.

That'd be crazy.

That'd be a great skill to have, I reckon.

And I'd have Freya Kemp's power down the ground.

Effortless.

Yeah, she hits a big, big ball.

I wouldn't mind batting left-handed as well. She's left-handed. So if you could do the sort of switch hit, that would be amazing. Amazing. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. So remember, you can keep up to date with everything around the Women's T20 World Cup on the BBC Sport website and app, as well as the Test Match Special podcast on BBC Sounds. Guys, thank you so much, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you very much.

My favorite World Cup moment? It's the first World Cup I properly remember watching, Argentina '78. The ticker tape, Mario Kempes, Ari Hahn scoring goals from miles out, and always one of my favorite World World Cup moments. Archie Gemmell's great goal for Scotland against the Dutch. What makes the World Cup such a special tournament is the atmosphere, the color. It is a meeting of the nations and of people who love football. The FIFA World Cup 2026.

Listen on BBC Sounds. He's widely recognized as one of the greatest footballers in history.

He's won the prestigious Ballon d'Or award 5 times. He's the all-time leading goalscorer in professional football, and according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status.

Guess who we're talking about yet?

That's right, Good Bad Billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of football icon Cristiano Ronaldo.

That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.

Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.