Root's 99 not out helps England beat India to level ODI series

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

So the series is level at 1-1 after England's 4-wicket victory against India in Cardiff. They won with 5.4 overs to spare. Let's go out and join Henry Moran because he is speaking to India's captain, Shubman Gill, who is just standing over here next to me.

And we're going to grab a very quick word with the India captain at the end of the game. Ultimately disappointing. Where did it go wrong for your side today?

I think we were in a really good position, you know. I think at the end of 25-30 overs when we were batting, lost too many wickets, you know, in the middle overs, at the end of the middle overs, just before the last power play. And, uh, you know, we thought at the mid innings, at 25 overs, we thought 300, 310 would be a good total on this wicket. And we just couldn't get the momentum in the batting in the, in the back end of the innings.

When you're up against a team that just has the ability to keep things ticking over without that scoreboard pressure, what's going through your mind as a captain?

Honestly, uh, we try to, you know, create as much pressure as we can. If you can squeeze them under pressure and And I think we were right, we were right in the game up until about, you know, 30-35 overs with them 5 down. But we knew we had to keep taking on the wickets, and unfortunately we were also a bowler short with Washington. So I just thought, you know, we had to get our main bowlers and keep trying to take wickets and see if there's a chance.

In terms of the series, it takes us to a decider at Lord's. That's a tantalizing prospect.

Yeah, definitely. Really one of the best grounds to play at, and series decider, so everything to play for, for us.

And if you were Joe Root on 99 at the end, how would you feel?

I would have not taken that single in the second last over.

Thank you very much. Shubman Gill down here on the boundary edge.

Well, a very honest, uh, Shubman Gill. And batters like hundreds, and Root's got plenty of them in international cricket. He doesn't need to be too greedy. He's got, you know, stack full in, uh, Test matches, and he's got 20 in one day in International Cricket as well. Vik Marks is with me and Deep Dasgupta to discuss this latest One Day International victory.

I was just so impressed by Shubman Gill there. Everyone would have liked to have got their 100, but he was open enough to say, I wouldn't have taken that single. And I just like the candor of that and the honesty of that, because most people say, oh no, I don't, I wasn't bothered at all.

But yeah, and the moment Gus Atkinson hit that shot to the boundary, I think the first thing he did was just go on and I think must have apologized to Joe Root, and then Joe Root was quick to pat on his back and say, you know, what, it's, it's all right, you know, game one, that's what it is, uh, that's what matters.

Well, I suppose the big question is, Lords, will anyone get Joe Root out?

I mean, yeah, yeah, that is a big question. And, and especially, I mean, with, with the number of injuries that India's got, I think India might be forced to play someone like Kuldeep because don't have too many options now. Uh, I guess a lot of it also depends on whether KL Rahul is fit by then or not. We got a few days before that, uh, the decider. But India is in a little bit of trouble in terms of feeling, you know, 11 fit guys, so to say.

Henry asked India's captain, Shubman Gill, though, you know, kind of where did it go wrong? Where did you feel it went wrong? Because I mean, the game was up and down, wasn't it? It wasn't like England dominated the match in the way that kind of India did at Edgbaston. It was fluctuating, and they were in a strong position at one stage.

They were, and I think I completely agree, and I guess we all were talking about how India could have at least got another 20-30. If you think about India getting all out in the 44th over, I mean, 6 overs, 36, you take even another 20-odd runs, you never know. So I guess, yeah, I mean, from that position where India were 170-odd for 3 to kind of get all out for 233, it's— it was, yeah, I mean, very, very disappointing to the least.

They lost their last 7 wickets for 55 runs in 12 and a half overs. Archer, uh, good today, 3 for 47. Um, Mahmood, 2 for 52, had a difficult start, came back well. Atkinson, wickets towards the end, 3 for 50, his best figures in One Day International cricket. Actually, quietly, he's had a good game today, Gus Atkinson, on his return to the team as he made 23 not out. What did you feel about that India innings? Victor?

Well, uh, like everyone else, I think at one point you thought it's going to be 300 here. The wicket looked— it's a good wicket, but there was bounce on it, and it was critical when Archer came back. I think the Indians would not— some of those players not used to the extra bit of bounce. Archer's good at that, getting that sort of shoulder-high quick ball, few pull shots going up in the air. So England did well to get wickets in that late middle period, and suddenly once there's 6 or 7 down, the batsman can't play with the same freedom. Uh, Iyer was stranded there at the end with the tail. Um, so England did really well. India, understandably, would be disappointed. They gave 1 or 2 perhaps cheap wickets away, uh, and therefore that 300 or even 280 was beyond them.

Right, let's join Henry again. He's got Harry Brook with him.

Harry, how satisfying is that as a performance and a win for your side?

Extremely satisfying. I thought we had a very good day. There's a couple of standout periods in the whole game, and, uh, yeah, that's ended up getting us a victory.

What were those standout periods from, from your perspective?

The period where we had Jackson, uh, Sam Curran bowling at the same time. I think it was 5 or 6 overs and we really put them under pressure with trying to hold as well. Not necessarily trying to take wickets, but just trying to get as many dot balls as we could. I thought that was a really impressive stage. And then that partnership between Rooty and Jacksy there as well. Very calm, very controlled, and trying to take the game deep.

As a captain, are you enjoying the role of responsibility in a 50-over game of thinking about when to use your bowlers, how to pace things? Because today was a perfect example of getting that right.

Yeah, I enjoy captaining. It can be frustrating at times, but look, today was a great bowling performance after the start they had. I think they were 180 for 3, ended up bowling them out for 230, which is a hell of an effort. 7 for 60 on what ended up being quite a good surface in the middle pit the middle period. Yeah, it's good fun, and trying to suss out what fields to set to certain bowlers is, yeah, it's a challenge, but it's good.

I can see a real spark in your eye when you speak about captaincy.

It's always good winning, isn't it? It's always a lot of fun, and having a player like Rooty in the side makes it a lot easier.

99 not out is a score not everyone would want. What would you have been like at the non-striker's end in that situation?

I'd have definitely been the same as him, and he wanted the game over and done with. We've come away with a win there, having put ourselves in a few tricky situations, is a phenomenal effort. And I've said so many times, we're never out of games, and this side is a very good side.

Sets up a wonderful prospect for Sunday as well.

Definitely. Who knows what Lord's is going to present, but we're looking forward to another day of assessing conditions and trying to calculate what's the best thing to do on that surface.

Many thanks, Harry. Thanks a lot for your time. Well done today. Just one little thing, Simon. He was deep in conversation with Marcus North, and there was a glint in his eye when I asked him about captaincy. Let's leave it at that.

Okay, well, there's a lot to be decided, isn't there?

Yes. What I bet that was is it was interesting to hear Brook really admire the calmness and controlled nature of the batsman Jackson Root. Given his dismissal today. But there you go.

Well, we can, we can talk about that now, can't we? Um, Harry Brook, and we came down the pitch early in his innings, had a huge mow, got an inside edge past the stumps, and he came in with England 8 for 2 after Duckett was out first ball. And Bethell got a good one, that climb from Prasidh Krishna, he was out for 4. So his response, as we've seen many times before, was to counterattack, but he was also playing those ramp shots as well. And his ultimate downfall came to it attempted ramp shot where he ended up on his backside well away from the stumps. I don't think I've seen— ever seen anything like that.

No, he is a law unto himself with the bat. But I don't actually— I don't want to be too critical because I see him, whatever the format, he is the wild card in that team. And you can have one wild card who can take the game away from the opposition in half an hour, but you need a blend And Root, it was today, who provided that, you know, the alternative route magnificently, actually. I mean, I don't think there's anyone in our team at the moment who could bat, play that sort of innings at the moment.

What, the Root innings or the Brookings?

Well, both, actually. Both, both, both, both extreme. But Root was sort of selfless. I mean, he likes to play a few impish shots now and again, but he saw the situation— not a big target, but a desperate side in terms of needing that win, and he kind of restrained himself in a very mature way, nipping all those singles, barely playing a risky shot, because he was a bit worried that if he didn't do that, England wouldn't win.

Yeah, well, he carries the team a bit, doesn't he, at times?

So he needs— yeah, he can't do that every match, I don't suppose.

And, and Joe Root is such an important part of, of obviously whether it's Test or ODI, because Every time you give a little bit of a tricky pitch and I look at this side, I'm like, if Jorut doesn't score— and you look back to the Sri Lanka series as well, you know, turning, slow tracks, it was Jorut again. These ones, last couple of games, it hasn't been easy pitches to bat on and it's Jorut again because he's got that in him. Obviously this whole experience, then his class and his ability to pick those singles and every now and then get a boundary as well. So he keeps the scoreboard ticking without taking too much of risks. And because of Joe Root, I mean, Harry Brook, the maverick that he is, he can bat like that knowing that there is a Joe Root there. It might have been a different story had Joe Root— uh, India had got Joe Root's wicket early, then it would be interesting to see how then Harry Brook would have batted. Maybe then he would have batted differently. But as long as Joe Root's out there, you kind of— the other players are confident that, you know, he's— and especially on surfaces like these, that he's gonna see the team through or, or get it over the line.

India did have some problems today, didn't they, with illness and injury. We've kind of touched on it with no Washington Sundar to bowl some overs. We'll talk about that in a moment, Deep. Let's hear from Joe Root now.

Well, Joe, well played. I think I know what you'll say, but 99, you're happy with that and you just wanted that win.

Yeah, it was so important to get across the line there. It was quite difficult, so, um, just to get the job done and for us to go to Lords with everything to play for was what it was all about. And, um, You know, it's such a good feeling being there at the end in those kind of situations, conditions. So really pleased with getting across the line. Sometimes it doesn't matter what it looks like, it's just about getting the job done. And I thought the bowls were exceptional, the way that we attacked that second half of that innings, kept taking wickets, finding ways to peg them back and build pressure or, you know, create chances. So yeah, it was brilliant.

What were you saying to Gus at the end?

Smack it for four. If they're going to play silly buggers like that, then fair, you know, that's gives us a chance to win the game and go to Lord's with 1-all and hopefully go and win the series.

This team is in a position now where it'll be a very different context if they do— if you do go on and win at Lord's. How good is this team at the moment, do you think?

Well, like I say, it depends. You can— I think you can manipulate stats however you want, and whatever narrative you want to go with, that's, um, you know, you can find stats to back that up. I think this team should be judged on the here and now. The last two series that we've been involved in You know, or the last summer we won and, you know, played that great game against South Africa at the back end of things. To win, first thing, to win in Sri Lanka in a 4-year period is a hell of an effort. And we adapted from the loss in the first game, we learned, we evolved, and we ended up winning that series. I think we learned lessons from the last game and understood what was required to take wickets on the surface. Like that, and it's why we've got everything to play for. We won all at Lord's against the number one team in the world. So if you ask me, I think we're in a very different place to probably where a lot of other people think we are. The question is, can we stand up and deliver again at the home of cricket? Makes for a great final.

Yeah, looking forward to that, clearly.

And it would be a really good way to build towards the pressure situations you're going to see in the World Cup next year.

Exactly. And that's when we've got to peak, right? That's when we've got to get things right and perform is when we get to South Africa. So of course we want to keep winning games and of course we want to keep winning series and we'll do everything we can to do that. But the most, I think, a really important thing on our journey is keep learning, keep developing, keep understanding what different conditions require at different moments, whether that's with bat in hand or ball in hand. How can we take wickets in that middle phase, which I think again we did brilliantly today? How can we just get across the line sometimes and win ugly? And I think there's some crucial partnerships towards the back end there where guys did a brilliant job. Probably played at a slightly different tempo to how they want to and how they'd normally play. And I think we'll learn and take a huge amount of confidence from that if we find ourselves in similar kind of situations. So a lot to be really pleased about and a lot to take into that last game.

Really well played today, Joe. Many thanks for your time.

Joe Root, who finished 99 not out. Quite bullish there, and a little dig at India's tactics towards the end. I don't know whether he was Specifically referring to the fact that they were just going short Atkinson, so it kind of had to— it was kind of 6 or 4, or that all the field was up at the end.

In a sense, they were giving Atkinson a 4 if he middled it.

Yeah, but so there was no single on offer to get Root back on strike.

Yeah, yeah, I suppose. But I mean, it doesn't— he— I don't think he, he's too bothered by that.

Yeah, but at the end of the day, that's how India lost their wickets, and that, that's how they got a few wickets bowling the short ball. I guess that's all right.

I guess what'll be interesting is Lords, is what the surface is like, because if the surface resembles the Test match surface, the short ball is no— is no longer the prime goal. It's the length ball. And whether— we don't know what the pitch at Lords will be like, but so they can't necessarily use the same tactics at Lords if the pitch is zipping around again.

It probably—

well, they'll hopefully it won't be, but we'll wait and see.

Yeah, and generally, I mean, from memory, generally speaking, you want to bat first at Lord's as well. I know it, that's— but both matches have been won by the team batting second, but stats at Lord's are very heavily in favor of the teams that bat first, maybe at times because of the slowness of the pitch.

I think it only— and looking at the summer and how dry it has been and the number of matches that has already happened this summer at Lord's it won't be a bad idea. Again, we don't know, it's 11 AM start, uh, and, and there might be a case where, you know, it might just be a little more helpful for the spinners in the second half, or get a little more difficult for the batters to time with the slowness of the pitch. So maybe that, that could be the reason. But again, what we've seen so far in this series, uh, especially in the first half, the extra bit of moisture and the pitches doing something, well, could get the same, uh, same in at Lords as well.

Yeah, we'll see on that one. We'll wait and see on that. Uh, Zolt, you've got some, uh, Joe Root stats for us.

Well, we've seen Joe Root do, uh, numerous, uh, incredible things during the course of his career. One thing he'd never done before in international cricket was score 99. So he's added that to his, uh, to his resume. The first, uh, undefeated 99 for England in One Day Internationals, and just the 6th 99 not out for England in all formats, uh, men and women. One reason he might not have been too upset not to get the— not to get the hundred, um, obviously it's not a concern for him, but he'd faced 133 balls. If he'd scored his hundred off his next ball, would have been comfortably his slowest, uh, hundred. He scored 20 hundreds in ODI cricket, and it would have been the joint slowest for England since 2012 and the slowest for England at home since 2003. And we've seen him score many different types of, uh, of, of hundred. This was the kind of classic Rootian, uh, innings of complete control and accumulative, uh, accumulative mastery. And, um, you know, showed him adapting to the situation. And we've seen a lot of very fast hundreds for England across formats, and particularly that one-day cycle up to the 2019 World Cup when he scored loads of hundreds. But yeah, showed the, uh, the full restraint to, to keep that chase on there, um, uh, functioning successfully. He made 166 not out here last year in sort of similar situation against West Indies after a couple of early wickets fell to, to win a much higher chase. So he's now 266 65 unbeaten on this ground in his last 2 ODIs, 286 unbeaten in his last 3 One Day International innings. And since the start of the Champions Trophy in, uh, 2025, February 2025, he scored, uh, 1,118 runs at an average of 86 in 17 one-day innings with 4 hundreds, 7 other 50-plus scores including the 99 not out today. Comfortably the most productive, uh, 17 in winning sequence by an England player in ODI history.

And he said sometimes you've got to win ugly. I didn't think he was very ugly. I thought he was rather great.

Well, perhaps that's how it was, what it felt like to him. Yeah, but just watching him, I think watching— he, he never really looked like getting out. Did he look— he felt in total—

and he didn't really want to play any big shots at all. He's such a good manipulator of the, you know, the one. And it's got to be, you know, the bad ball he hits for 4, but the good ball he hits for 1.

Yeah, and, and that's the, that's the thing with Joe Root is because he just keeps that scorecard moving. And obviously Will Jacks also was brilliant in that partnership where kind of the partnership took the game away from India. And listen, he's one of the greatest, to be fair. But the question is, on, on tricky pitches, if Joe Root gets out early, then who is it that who's going to do that job for England? As of now, I think Will Jacks batted really sensibly in their partnership I think that's a big question because you're not going to find those placid batting surfaces every time you play. So who then if Joe gets out early?

Yeah, very good question.

We can't answer that. Good question.

Possibly nobody. Um, just one final point from you, Victor. I mean, how significant a victory is that for England?

Well, I mean, they—

Polish, wasn't he? About England in one-day cricket there. Well, to be not as bad as everyone says we are, basically.

Yeah, I mean, the records— we— you had the stats at the start of the day that, I mean, their record is poor in the 50-over game. But essentially, I suppose, at the moment we can say that just in the last— what is it, 3 weeks, 2 weeks— they've played well. They've lost just the one game at Edgbaston. So the mood is positive. It'll be a big game now at Lord's. I'm glad, you know, it's all square. And if they win the series, suddenly they've got something to clutch on to with the 50-over format, which they have been much weaker on. However, the statistics, which obviously mean very little, Andy, you know, can easily be manipulated, whatever they say, um, you know, the mood will improve generally, I think.

Yeah, okay, just quickly, yeah, just quickly, I, I guess obviously we mentioned about 50 overs and getting that tempo right. I think no matter what happens, England should chase. And I, I, I stick— even at Lord's, Steve, even at Lord's, I think that just gives them a target. They can bat accordingly. They would bat according to the scoreboard. I think that might help to find that tempo in this format, which I guess batting first is a little bit of an issue.

Yeah, well, sort of highlighting that, since the, uh, the 2023 World Cup, we talked about this bad run. Now 11 wins, uh, 20 defeats, but bowling first and chasing with the bat, they're now 7 wins, 5 losses. Batting first, 4 wins, 15 losses.

Well, they have won today, so the series is level, and a significant landmark for this England team trying to improve in one-day cricket. And Joe Root guiding them home, along with Gus Atkins and a few others who had some good all-round games today.

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Well, Eleanor Oldroyd sat down with Formula 1 driver Arvid Lindblad at Edgbaston the other day. The 18-year-old, who races for Racing Bulls and is the only rookie on the 2026 grid, shared his thoughts on cricket, sport, and life so far.

Let's talk, Arvid, by talking about your family, because you've got such an interesting heritage, haven't you? So, so your dad's Swedish, your mum's British Indian, So, what was that like growing up in a house where you've got all these different cultural influences?

Yeah, it was cool. You know, it's— they're all very different. They're all quite particular, you could say. So, like you said, my dad's Swedish. My mom's born in the UK, but her parents are from India, and they're very traditional Indians. They're Punjabis. So yeah, I mean, I lived in the UK, but I spent a lot of time with my Swedish grandparents that were very different to my Indian grandparents. I got to eat a lot of different cuisines. But yeah, it was really cool. Like I said, they're all very, very different. And I think all three cultures in the end, you know, they believe a lot in hard work and humility and always giving your best. And I think it's really shaped me into the person I am today.

Were they very ambitious for you to succeed?

I think I come from quite an ambitious family in the sense that, you know, they're very hardworking. My dad came from very humble beginnings. He really didn't have much and he worked very hard to be able, you know, for me to have the opportunities that I have now. My grandparents, they're involved in partition, so their families lost everything when they were very young. So they, they had to work very hard themselves to really create a life. They moved to the UK here as doctors. So I come from a very hardworking family that are ambitious, and I wouldn't say they really pushed it on me, but I guess because I was born into that and almost saw that as the norm, it naturally pushed me to be ambitious myself. So Yeah.

And how big a part of your life growing up was cricket?

Uh, it was a pretty big part. I mean, you know, like I said, my grandparents, um, they— my sweet— my mom's parents, they absolutely love cricket. They're very traditional Indians, so whenever I went there, they'd always have the cricket on. Um, and from an early age, I'd be there, you know, eating my nani's rajma and dal whilst, you know, watching, watching the cricket with them. So, um it's, it's been a family thing that we've always done from an early age. So I know my nanny's here with me today, um, and it's been really fun to, to share watching my first cricket game with, with her.

Yeah, so, so has she been talking to you about, you know, Jasprit Bumrah and Virat Kohli and, and all of these players that, you know, are legends of the game, aren't they?

Yes, definitely. Um, it's, it's a really strong side that India have brought, you know, to this match. Lots of the, the the real top players for the country. So she's been talking to me. We've been talking a little bit about it.

Yeah.

Did you play at all? Did you get the chance to play? Because I mean, you started in motorsport when you were ridiculously young.

Yeah, so I know. I mean, I started in racing, you know, when I was 5, but I still played cricket in school. I wasn't good. You know, I didn't play really outside of school. I wasn't in a club or, you know, play for any county or anything. I was nowhere near that level, but I enjoyed playing in school.

You know, I was in the B team.

The C team, so, you know, nothing great, but, um, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed batting more than bowling. Um, so I did—

I—

nothing like these guys, but I can kind of relate a little bit, you know, because I have played the sport a bit when I was younger.

I've seen video of you when you were in Mumbai quite recently, I think, going out onto the Maidan and having a hit. Just describe how that came about.

Yeah, I mean, we were in Mumbai. It was my first time there.. And I don't know, I wanted to just really take it all in, you know, the city and do lots of different things. So we went to, you know, food markets, went to some of the touristy places. But I also wanted to, you know, go and do some cricket stuff because we went there in December, so there wasn't really any cricket on in the area, like big games. So we went to the ground. And there were loads of, you know, kids there, you know, in their own little clubs. Um, and it was just really cool to, to be a part of and see it all and play a little bit of myself.

For people who've never been to Mumbai and not had that experience, I mean, what, what is that like to, to walk onto this extraordinary scene where everybody has a cricket bat or wants to be Virat Kohli or Jasprit Bumrah?

Yeah, it's, it was really cool to see. I mean, obviously I think each country has, you know, their sport, uh, maybe not as seriously, but you know, I think there's— yeah, I'd say each country has their thing, and in India that is, that is very much cricket. Everyone wants to be, you know, um, a cricketer, whether that's, you know, like Bumrah, like you said, or Kohli, or even, you know, they all look up to Sachin Tendulkar and the old legends. So, you know, it's— cricket's really like a religion in India. Um, so yeah, everyone's there with their bats and playing and, uh enjoying themselves and trying to, to be, to improve.

Can you imagine that level of fame being an Indian cricketer? I mean, as, as a young man, you know, who is half Indian now, and you see that passionate support of that particular sport, is there anything like that in F1?

I mean, the British fans are amazing, um, you know, and I got my first taste of that this year in Silverstone, um, you know And especially, you know, I got a bit of it, but you know, especially for Lewis and Lando, you know, they're so big now, um, that for sure for them it's, it's so amazing feeling the support. But in the end, I don't think it's quite like, um, 1.5 billion people in India, you know, uh, really, really cheering for you. So yeah, I think the, the feeling of being, you know, one of the best Indian cricketers, I think that it's hard to, to match that sort of support.

So you could, but maybe, I mean, maybe I was thinking if, you know, if your mum or your grandparents had put a cricket bat in your hand when you were 3 years old, you know, you could have been maybe discovering a talent for cricket. But in fact, what they did was they put you on a motocross bike when you were 3 years old.

Yeah, and that wasn't my mum's plan. That was much more my dad. I think my mum, for a long part of it, was reluctantly going along with the ride.

Um, was she worried about you?

I don't think from a safety point of view. I mean, for sure a little bit, she got a bit nervous, but I wouldn't say, you know, the, the safety was the biggest concern at home, um, because motorsport is actually incredibly safe now. Um, you know, it's very rare anything happens. Um, I just think for her, you know, the idea of me, you know, at an early age missing some school and not the academics always coming first, because like I said, you know, I come from an Indian background where academics is super important. I think that for her was a little bit hard to get her head around. So there was many times I was at the kart track, you know, doing my homework between sessions and that sort of thing. And, you know, we made it work as a family.

And karting is the way that you start as a— in four-wheel racing, isn't it really? And it's where Lewis Hamilton started. It's where all the drivers pretty much have started. When did you realize that you're quite good at this?

Um, yeah, so karting is how everyone starts. It's really the only way in. Um, I don't know, I mean, when I was 5 and I went karting for the first time, you know, I, I knew it was what I wanted to do. Um, I wanted to be in Formula 1. Um, and honestly, I wouldn't really say there was ever a point where I thought, oh, I'm actually quite good at this. Um, because in my head I always— it was always about Formula 1 and always getting there. So when I was doing well, it was almost like part of the plan, if that makes sense, because, you know, that was what I was working towards. Um, so for me it was never really a hobby. It was always, you know, I had my vision, my goal in my head, and every time I went to the track I was trying to, to learn and improve, um, to keep getting better.

And so you went through all of the, the different stages, haven't you? You've, you've gone in all the, all of the kind of the smaller formula, formulas until you've got finally to, to get a drive, um, with Red Bull, with the Red Bull Junior program. I think at 14 you joined that, didn't you? Um, and you first drove an F1 car in 2024 when you were 16?

Yes.

Were you, were you actually old enough to have a driving license with a, on a road car at that stage?

No, I wasn't able to have a road car, a license. I mean, even still now I don't have my license.

Do you not?

No, which is not something I should be braggy about because it's not very cool.

It's quite difficult to book a driving test at the moment, we should say.

It is difficult to book a driving test. So I'm—

That's your excuse.

Well, it's been long enough now, so I'm— there's only so many Ubers you can get, so I'm working towards it. I'm trying to get it done. But no, it was amazing my first time driving an F1. You know, in the end, it's, it's what we all dream of, racing, you know, at the pinnacle. So getting my first opportunity is something I'll never forget.

That feeling of sitting for the first time in that big car and, you know, and knowing you've got this power, this power, you know, at your fingertips. I mean, can you describe what that feels like?

It's a bit daunting, you know, because Every cat— I came up through the ranks very quickly, you know. So it was only 3 and a half years ago that I was doing my last race in karting. Um, I did one year of F4, one F3, one F2, and now in F1. Um, and every category there's more power, more grip, they're bigger. Um, so, you know, I remember getting in it and when I actually had my first go, I just finished racing an F3, which is a much smaller car. So I was looking at it and getting in, I was like, wow, this is massive, you know, it's really big. And then, you know, you go on the power and there's so much— the pedal, there's so much torque. Um, it's, it's a bit scary sometimes. Um, you know, and, uh, you get used to it. And now I'm in the race car, I'm very comfortable. Um, but even, you know, over the weekend I was driving Goodwood, uh, you know, driving the V8s. Uh, I drove the RB8 that Sebastian Vettel won the World Championship in. And even driving that, you know, when you go on power, it is It's a lot of talk. It's very—

this— yeah, I think there almost seems to be kind of like a fearlessness perhaps among guys of your generation because, you know, you're— I think you're the fourth youngest driver ever in F1, is that right? Something like that?

Something like that, yeah, third or fourth.

Yeah, and Oliver Bearman was, was just, I think, slightly older, very slightly older than you, um, when, when he started. I mean, is, is it something that is about fearlessness, is about being allowed, you know, because, because you've still got very experienced drivers, you've got older drivers, you know, you've got, you've got Fernando Alonso, you've got Lewis Hamilton who won the World Championship for the first time when you were 1 year old, and now you're lining up on the grid with him. I mean, is it better to be that bit older and more experienced, do you think, or does it help being a bit, being a bit younger?

I mean, it's a bit of a difficult question to ask, answer if it helps being older or not. But I would say is, yeah, we are all a bit fearless. You have to be a bit, you know, nuts, to be honest, because it's not normal to go around corners at, you know, just under 200 miles an hour. But, and you have to be comfortable doing that. And obviously that takes a lot of time. So, you know, and that's why we all start so early. But when I'm in the car and I'm driving, I'm not scared. Sometimes you get a little bit uncomfortable. But no, I'm not scared at all. And it's very often when you're in qualifying or something and you're not quite fast enough to go through to Q3, let's say, and, you know, you just tell yourself, I'm just going to switch off the brain and send it. And if it's in the fence, it's in the fence, you know. And that's— yes, we're all a bit like that. And I think that's the way you have to be, otherwise you're not fast.

And that's the interesting thing, isn't it? Because you say safety has improved a huge amount in F1 over the years. And, you know, I was working in kind of the dark times the 1990s when quite a lot of drivers lost their lives. But, but do you always feel safe now? Do you always feel that you can just give it the full send onto the corners and not worry if you, if you hit, hit the, hit the tyre wall?

No, I'm not really. I never get scared about that sort of thing. Um, it doesn't even enter my mind, to be honest. Um, so this is a big credit to F1 and the FIA, the improvements they've done. There are still times when it's not the nicest, when it is very wet I think that's something maybe that's not so appreciated by the fans, that when it's so wet, we literally can't see. You might as well put a blindfold over us with the, with the spray. And that's not nice because when you're going 200 miles an hour and you can see where you're going, it's okay. And you can't see where you're going, it's not very comfortable. And that's when there sometimes are accidents. So when it's very wet and you can't see, especially in the beginning, it's, it's not the nicest. But I'd say that's the only time you get a bit uncomfortable. But even then, through that, you just— yeah, if you lift and you crash at 180 or 200, doesn't— it's gonna hurt either way. So yeah, might as well stay flat.

So, so your first season in F1 is going pretty well. Yeah, I should say, not on the podium quite yet, but it feels like it's getting closer, doesn't it? Because you've had, what, 2 7th place finishes, including at Silverstone?

I think so, yeah. I mean, I mean, what was, what was the Silverstone experience like for you? Yeah, it was very special. I mean, you only get one first home race. Um, I, I learned all my craft here in the UK. Um, you know, I did all my early years here before when I was 11, I started racing in, in Europe. Um, but the, the training ground here in the UK is amazing in those early categories and Yeah, it's a big reason why, why I'm here now and also, you know, why there's 5 British F1 drivers, you know, there's no, that's, that's not just luck.

And to arrive at the track for, you know, practice and then qualifying over that whole weekend at Silverstone and seeing the fans and seeing the, the flags flying for you guys as well, as you say, I mean, that must have been quite, quite a surreal moment.

Yeah, it was.

You had—

did you have your family there to share it?

Yeah, my family were there with me. They've come, come with me the past few years to Silverstone. It's always the one that they come to, um, and it was amazing. It was really enjoyable. I mean, for me, the, the most special moment of the weekend, um, was on the, on the Thursday when I went on the fan stage with the other British drivers, um, and there was, you know, 30,000, 40,000 British fans in front of us all just screaming, um It was a feeling I've never even— yeah, I've never experienced anything even like it, anything close to it before.

So when are we going to see you on the podium for the first time, do you think? Any chance at Spa this weekend?

I mean, I hope so, but you know, I also need to be realistic. Unfortunately in F1, the cars aren't always the same, so that's not really what we're fighting for. There's quite a big split between the top 4 teams and the rest. So the team have done an amazing job to give us a car that is a little bit clearer of the rest of the midfield. So I think, you know, for us it's very much Q3 and points. And that's what we've done, you know, me and my teammate the last 4 weekends. We've both done that. So that's our main objective for sure. If anything more comes, you know, we'll take it. I'll take it. Um, you know, I'm always aspiring for more, and a podium is my next goal. Um, but I'm also not going to get too fixated on the results. I'm, you know, also focused on myself and learning and improving. And if I do that, then the results will come.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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