S15E7 - We are just better at football than we were

Really stubborn. Going all the way again here and Leonard's kicked him out. Oh, this is incredible. This is quite incredible. Truly a glory, glory day for Tottenham Hotzma.

Hi guys.

I'm Andre Vilas Boas listening to Echoes of Glory. And don't forget, whatever happens, the future is bright. Future's lily white. Come on your Spurs.

Hello and welcome to Echoes of Glory. I'm asd.

And I am Jack.

Welcome back mate. You've been on holiday which is why we didn't record last week. How was it?

Absolutely. It was lovely. I was in sunny Spain for a few days. Obviously managed to find some places to watch the games. So didn't miss. Didn't miss a second of it. But nice, nice break. Good to be back. Always good to be token Spurs. So all good here.

Who's our greatest Spanish player? It's just because as soon as you said sunny Spain to play at white hot Lane. No. So obviously we've got Soldado Reggie on Brian Hill. Iago Falconte Laurente is the one.

He's got to be like a poro.

Poro. I mean poros. I mean Llorente is a legend for that goal in City.

Fans of a slightly older generation would. Naim was Spanish.

He's not famous for stuff he did at Spurs.

No, no, no.

We haven't done well for Spanish.

No we haven't. It's not a nation where we've done. Done particularly well. I've just.

Brazilians.

Yeah.

All these amazing like countries for footballers and we go. We get the goalkeeper. The moodiest one in Polynho.

Emerson Royale. The defensive Brazilians. What they're known for isn't. Reminds me of.

It's like we didn't have much money growing up. One Christmas I got a referees kit for Christmas because it was. It was cheap in hyper value in Cardiff and my dad was like it's a football kit.

Just.

It was the wrong thing of the thing that I wanted.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely.

So you've missed a few. We've. We haven't talked about a few games. We've got three nil against Doncaster. We've got the one one against Wolves. I totally forgotten that my brain had. I just. I can't remember. I could. I can remember it now. Now I've looked it up but I wouldn't have been able to say Bodo glimpsed in the week. And then Leeds yesterday. Quickly Doncaster professional. That's what I was thinking about that.

Yeah, we did really. I was there for it actually. Good win. Like, rotated the team. Well, good to see just players get some minutes. Players playing different positions. Paul Linear at center back was class considering, like, he's probably never played there before. It was professional. I think in those games, if. If you just get a go in the first 20 minutes, it just settles everything down. And then, you know, the. The quality, the golfing quality was there to see when that.

Especially two of them, like. Like that just kills the game off straight away, doesn't it? 20 minutes and they're just running around. They. I mean, they said before the game that this isn't their season. They weren't. They were just playing because they had to. Really.

Okay, Wolves or tough game? That's a really, really tight. And I was. I was there for that as well. I thought in the first half we played quite well, to be totally honest with you. And I was. I was sort of there being like, all right, the keeper's not had to make too many saves. But, like, it felt like we were on top. It felt like a game where, like, the pressure building here, like, we're gonna be okay. Like, we'll go on and win this. And then obviously, like, Vicario pretty much chucked one in. And then I actually thought wolves played really well in that second half against us. I thought that they defended really, really well. Stopped sort of our wide players getting involved in the game. Looked dangerous on the break. And it felt. Honestly, it felt like one of them games where it's like, oh, like we're gonna. We're gonna get done. The longer it went on, the less likely I thought we were gonna score. And then Paulina popped up with really nice finish. Do you know what I mean? It would have been so easy to have just sort of like, you know.

Fresh out of the bar.

Really, really nice finish. So, look, it's dis. It was disappointing to draw at home with wolves, but given, I think any. In any game, when you're losing going into any time, if you get a draw, you just have to be like, we've got out of that with a draw. Like, let's just move on.

Yeah, it's disappointing considering where wolves were, but they drew again today.

They're not a team that should be down there like that. They. From what I saw against us, I was like, that's. That's an all right side.

But is that an us thing more than anything? Like, are we making lots of teams look good at the moment? We'll get on to that next we play. Bodo glimpsed and again made hard work of it. Didn't we?

Yeah, this was this. This one. I was very frustrated watching this. Funnily enough, I actually watched it in the company of four Bodo Glint supporters. What are the odds of that? In a tiny, tiny Irish bar in Alicante in Spain and there were four Bodo Glint supporters in there. And it's just like how, like, what are the odds of that? They were really nice as well. Very lucky, calm, respectable. But as you. As you'd expect, sort of applauded when their first goal and it almost felt bad for me when it went 2 nil. I can't say that I was as respectful as we fought back and drew to all standout thing for me from that go with two things, really. Number one again, a bit of grit in the side to go behind and come back. Like, we can't keep going behind in games. Like, we've got to watch that because you can't keep fighting back from one and two goals behind Thomas Frank quick to act, which I like. There's none of this. Let's give it another 10 minutes is like, you know what? I'm not happy with it. I want to make some changes like that. The biggest thing for me was that you look at the front three we started with in that game. It's pretty poor. Odaber, Richarlison, Johnson, like in the Champions league away, like, how good is that front three? Like if. If you were to list out all of the front threes of all the teams in the Premier league and we'd stacked that one up against them, it's not great. It's like, you know, it's. It's. It's not great at all. So I think that there's a little bit of context with that as well that we. It wasn't a fantastic side that we put. But he has to. He had to give Kudas a little bit of time. Like he had to. I wasn't against the team at all, but I just think when you look at that, it's not an amazing front three. I thought it was another one of those games st where you go, you know what, get out there with a point. Like it's not a great result, but four points from the first two games, like, we'll take that. So I mean, like, to have lost would have been, you know, it had been poor. And it's like, I do think sometimes we forget how difficult it is playing away in Europe, Champions league, Europa league, even the conference League. I think it. I think most sides when they go away a draw is not a bad Result in Europe against anyone away from home. Albeit that they are a poor side that bodo. But I think that was just one look two nil down. Not long that. Not. Not that long left in the second half really was there when the second goal went in and it was like let's just get out. Get out of here with a draw and we'll take that.

I was just looking at the. The difference in teams weirdly. So we had more possession this time. Significant amount more possession. Almost 50% more than we did last time. And our team last year wasn't that different. Vicario u Dogi. I think it was Spence. And Spence didn't have his best game at all, did he in this. You messaged me about that. Then we have van. This is last time. Van Den Romero, Poro Beno Basuma, Kudasevski, Richard and Solanki Johnson. Whereas this time obviously there's a few changes there. I was disappointed with this one. I. It's. It felt like a Europa League game. That horrible pitch, tiny crowd. It just didn't feel like a real Champions League game. But it is. And I know everyone has these games. I know Shamrock Rovers have played Real Madrid. Like this is what happens in the Champions League. It's just disappointing. It's just disappointing to go two down in the second half but then to get come back straight away. Van DER Ven. Reliable. Mr. Reliable. He's now top scorers, isn't he this season. Van de Ven now. I mean we're early on in the season.

He's some player. He really is. I think it's great to see him being given a bit of extra responsibility as well. Like captain the side and just sort of being involved in the. The leadership group there is like. I think that's only going to be a good thing for him and for us to be honest, that he's involved in all of that.

Yeah. I mean let's talk about this leads game then. So Leeds le just happened. We went 1n up. They came back. Now people criticized Vicario for putting the ball into a place way. But where was he? He pushed it to the side and there was a player there. Like I don't think there's not many places he could have put it where it wouldn't have been in the danger area. People.

It's one. It's one of them. Like when I first saw it, I did go keeper. Like I don't think it's. I don't think it's great. That's what I would say. Like I don't think it's an absolute, like howler, but I don't think it's great goalkeeping. I. You know what? I think that that shows the level of keeper he is. I think the top keepers parry that for a corner, get it away. And I do. I think the top keepers. A goal doesn't come from that. That's not to say that he's not a good goalie, but I just think that's. That's sort of the level that he is. He's not in that top bracket in the league. He's in the one below it.

I. I don't think there's many top, top, top keepers in the league. I just. I think we were coming out of that era a little bit with those top, top. Messi and Ronaldo have gone, and so.

I always thought they were better outfield than in goal. Missing Ronaldo anyway, to be honest.

You know what I mean? Like, there's been a few players in certain positions and now there just isn't. Like, we didn't even know who's going to win Ballon d'. Or. We knew them. Dembele was probably going to win it, but we don't know who. I. I don't know the best center back in the world is right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Best striker in the world.

I do. I do think. I do think it's a fair statement to make.

So I. I don't know where he would have parried it. Like, to parry something going at that angle then behind the goal, I think is just as risky. So I don't blame him. And then kudos came, comes on, scores a goal like Gareth Bale.

Right goal.

I didn't. I don't. I'm not sure if I just didn't rate him enough last season or what, but what a player he is. How many players. How many players have come in and just delivered. Yeah, straight away.

But that's.

That.

That's. You know, you go and buy from the Premier League, you know what you're getting, didn't you? You don't need time to adapt. I really enjoy watching him, to be honest. It's just. He excites me as a player. Like, he's one of them that. Like he can make something happen from nothing at any point in the game. And I think the style of football that Frank plays, I think you need at least one player like that. That's a. That's a little bit off the cuff and a bit unpredictable. I think he's been outstanding all season, really. He's definitely been one of the best, one of the best players we've had so far this season. He's been great. I think we. I felt like the team missed him a lot when he was on the bench against Bodo. Yeah, I think we, we saw all actually that with Johnson coming in and Kudas that there's real levels between them significantly.

I, well, I found it really interesting where it was because it was a 4, 2, 3, 1 which I don't think we've seen from him before in a competitive game. But there was a difference between the defensive midfielder and Ben's current Pollini. I don't feel they came forward as much and then the rest of them moving forward. Where are you at with Simmons, with Xavi?

I think he looks like there's a. He looks like there's a good player in there. Like I think I'm quite excited to see that he's going to get better and better and better because at the minute he's playing every game. Do you know what I mean? There's no, oh, he's not being great. Let's bring him off, let's rotate like so I think for him that's a, that's a good, a good thing. I think he's shown that there's a bit of flexibility in the fact that he can play essentially can play out on the left which is a good thing depending on sort of who we're up against. I, I still feel like he's some way away from being a central player. I, I much prefer him on the left rolling inside. I think he's clever and I just think that from what I've seen so far, the pace of English football is not quite got up to it yet. And I think if you're playing in the middle it's really easy for a game to just pass you by. So that's why I think Frank's been really clever. Some games I'll play you out wide. Other games where I think there might be a little bit more space will play sort of central. So I think there's a good player in there. You can see it, can't you? When a player gets the ball, like he's got an eye for a pass. I just like that he's a risk taker with the ball. Yeah, like. And I think the way that football is now, you need that like you, you know, we've got in the nicest way. If you've got Paulinia and Benton corridor, you've got two safe midfielders. They're not going to Give the ball away to then have another player a little bit further up the pitch that's going to do the same thing. It's a little bit pointless. So I like the idea of him and Kudas sort of in the wider areas. I think they're still figuring out that sort of player that plays just off the forward. Is that Bergvo? Is that sa? We've seen Kudas coming. Essentially. We've seen Javi Place up. I think they're still trying to figure that piece out, which is okay. But personally I've liked what I've seen from him rolling off the left with Udogi in the team. I think that looks really. That looks a real threat. I think where it's not maybe looked as fluid has been him rolling off the left and Spence at left back because obviously he doesn't get forward as much and you sort of vacate in a bit of space there. So I think they're still figuring those bits out. But I think so far I like what I see from him. I think there's a. There's a good player in there.

I think so. And I really do think we're suffering from having Audubon Tail have to having to be picked. Like as soon as we get Kudasvsky Madison Solanki back, I think we'll. We'll see a lot more goals, a lot more chances because we're not creating a huge amount of chances. And it's. It feels lopsided at the moment. It's good to see Tell get his goal. It was deflected, but it's good to see him driving.

I think he needed it and I think he's. He's definitely a player where like you'll see him be more effective. I think when there's space. And I think we played quite quickly, didn't we, against Leeds. Like it was. It was almost a little bit like watching Klopp's Liverpool. Like the ball bouncer up and we just stuck the ball in behind. There's a couple of passes Benson core played and it's like he's not even really looking. He's just hitting. He knows where the leads. Backl hitting an area actually Tell running onto the ball. Looks a lot better when he sort of got back to goal and he's got to hold it like it doesn't. It doesn't look great. But what. What's going on with Kola Muani? That's the big one. Like we thought him on loan and it's like he's not fit. He's injured. He's got. He must have the deadest of legs to have been out for about a month with a dead leg. Like, it's weird. Is it?

I've had a dead leg and it lasts for 10 minutes, 5 minutes.

How weird one is it must have something going on or like, is he just really not fit?

How can you be a professional footballer and be that not fit? Like, we're a month in now.

I know, I know because that, that's a shame because I was sort of like, you know, like, it's exciting when you get a new striker, isn't it? You know, like you'll be like, oh, like, you know, someone get bought up too. Like, you know, I can't really say I've seen him play too much, but his presence, do you know what I mean, in his physique, it feels like it would suit English football.

Right.

But we're just not seeing him yet, which is. Which is a shame. And the slanky one worries me as well actually, to be honest.

He's.

He's not been fit for ages either.

I think this is just one of them where. Because he had a little operation, didn't he, earlier in the week where I think they just tried to sort it out and they were just like it. We're just going to cut you open, sort it out and then you rest and then you'll be back soon. So he'll be back soon and then he'll be less injured than he was before. That's the hope, right?

Yeah.

But he's desperately needed. Desperately needed.

Yeah.

It's good to see a couple of the Welsh boys play for Leeds. Like Rodon should have scored, like really should. And then Amadou just does what he does. He just goes around kicking people. He's not just a blunt object, but that was good. And then Calvert Lewin, poor footballer, really. You don't know how these people are stealing, living like that.

Calvin Lewin's such a funny because I've. I've always fought with Calvin Lewin, but like when he's fit, he's a bit of a handful of a forward. He's just never fit. That, that's the thing with him. Like he can never string a round of games together. So look, look, he's probably at his level, do you know what I mean? Which I mean playing for a side that are going to be fighting to start. But I think Leeds look alright in terms of staying up, to be honest.

Like there's a couple of stats there. So this was their first Home defeat since September last year. I know that they weren't in the Premier League, but like that's a fortress and we've gone and done something there. And we also broke our streak of failing to win seven consecutive matches that took place just before an international break. That I feel is nonsense. Like, I don't think there's any. I don't know how you read anything.

Into that, but I think that's just one of those. One of those things, isn't it? Like, it's just one of those weird stats that.

Yeah, it's just a coincidence more than anything. The other one. I've got a couple of things. There's only one team that hasn't conceded a goal in the last 15 minutes of Premier League games this season. That's Tottenham. That feels weird. Yeah.

It doesn't feel.

No. So Richarlison has now broken into the top five most Premier League appearances by Brazilians. Wow. On 250 appearances in the Premier League.

Wow. Right, who's number one in that list?

Can you name me the other four?

Oh, my God. And these will.

You know, all of them. You will have seen all of them play.

Zillions in the Premier League.

Right. You've got a Chelsea. You've got a Man City. You've got Man City and you've got Liverpool.

Chelsea, man City.

Chelsea1 always seem to score against us.

Oh, sorry. The Liverpool one. Is that Alisson?

No, I've done this wrong. No, it's not.

Oh, okay.

No, the lift. No, I've done it right. No, the Liverpool one. Is not. Alison. The least Brazilian looking man in the world.

I'm trying to think of Brazilians for Liverpool. Coutinho.

Weirdly, no. He left. He. He was part of the front three where Liverpool were. Absolutely no Firmino on 256.

Oh, you know what? I would have forgotten him. I would have forgotten him. Underrated player for me. No.

And the balance in that Firmino, Salah and what's his name. Brain's gone. Mane. Unbelievable. That was frightening.

Yeah.

That was Man City midfielder Fernandinho. Fernandinho. Man City goalkeeper just left.

Edison.

Yeah. Wow. So they. That is so Edson's 276. So. But at 327, the Chelsea player. You. You will kick yourself. Willian.

Hate him. Every game. Every game. I'm sure he was a quality player.

Oh, he's great. I forgot he had a year at Arsenal.

Yeah, he weren't that great. He weren't that.

And then Fulham. Now he's at Cremio. Oh, yeah, he's a player properly. Properly hated. You got any players you hate now in the League? There aren't many anymore.

Oh, what a question that is. Apart from obviously, the. The obvious lotter that are up the road.

But, yeah, mine nearly is irritating in the. From. From them.

I just find most of their players irritating because they're quite whiny.

Yeah. I've never managed it more.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm the same Jacques Sunderland. Because if you know former. Former Arsenal as well. I don't. I've always found Foden a bit irritating. Really? Yeah. Like, I don't know, I've just always found him a little bit irritating.

It just looks like a character in Shameless and I always enjoy Shameless also.

How nuts is it that Foden, Grealish and Bellingham, none of them are in the England squad? Like, what, What?

I mean, I like the stones of doing it.

Like, that's ridiculous, though. No, because like you. He's obviously, obviously going to put them all back in at some point. Maybe not Grealish, but you're going to put them back in at some point. Like, how are you leaving Bellingham out? Like, come on. Like, that's insane.

Smart, didn't it? It was great to see Grealish score. Like, he's so happy now and he and I. He deserve. He just. He's always seemed like a good guy. How he helps disabled people and he always just looks like. I mean, when they won the Champions League, he had a great time, didn't he?

And, like, I think it just shows that some players, we've said this. I mean, we've seen, like, players play for spurs over the years. Sometimes you need to be the main guy. And actually that's what brings the most out of certain players. Like actually being one of an attack or one of, like, five, six players that rotate. It suits some, it doesn't suit others.

Tell you who is playing very well right now is Harry Kane. And it's amazing. People are like, they've just discovered that Harry Kane's a really good footballer. You know, they got his breaking records. Of course he's breaking records. He's the best striker in the world right now.

The goals that he's scoring are like, I don't look at the goals he's scoring and go, my God. I'm like, yeah, like, that's Kane doing Kane. Things like, like, well, we've watched that for so long. The numbers that he is putting up this season, though, like, even for him, it's like, it's it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. He's some player we like. We knew it. I was talking about came to someone that I work with who has never been the big. Is not a Spurs fan, West Ham fan, not a big sort of came. It's a little bit overrated. And I was sort of saying to the other week, I was like, if. And it's a big if B won the Champions League this year, he's not coming back. And an even big. No, no, it's not that. And an even bigger if England won the World Cup.

Yeah. Right. Go on.

I think if you have one of those two things happen, there are then some very, very, very uncomfortable Harry Kane conversations. As in, is he the best ever striker?

A striker.

If he won the World cup with.

England.

I genuinely think that there's then a conversation of is it. Has there ever been a better number nine ever? I'm not saying he is, but I'm saying that becomes a conversation because the only reason that conversation doesn't happen now is because people go, yeah, well, he hasn't got eight league titles, two champions leagues. If you want a World cup, that. Absolutely. Because if we look at a pure ability of a forward and the ability to put the ball in the net and create, who's better?

I mean, you are putting him next to the real Ronaldo now, right, who had tricks and speed as well as power.

Absolutely intelligence. And I'm not. I'm not saying he's better than him, but I'm saying at the moment, that's not really a conversation that anybody would have because you'd go, oh, yeah, but like, just look at, like, look at R9. Like, look at everything he's. But it always come. It does come down to that. When you get right to the top, the what have you won? Does play a part in it, without a doubt. But I think if. If he got had a World cup, if he had a champion, like a really elite thing on his record, I think you can start having those composites. I've never seen ever a center forward like him ever.

No. Well, did you listen to the sky podcast where they. They had like. Was it Owen Rooney? Kane?

Yeah.

Oh, who were the other two? Shearer.

Yeah.

Kane was below Wayne Rooney. And Wayne Rooney is one of my favorite players I've ever watched. Like, brilliant footballer. He's definitely not a better striker than Harry Kane.

Like, it's so difficult about that one as well because, like, Rooney was like. Like anyone that, like, actually, like, watch Rooney for a period. It's like, he's phenomenal forward as well. But, like, what came, what Kane, What Kane does every week is levels. It's absolute levels.

He sets the standard for what a striker should be for decades now.

Completely. Completely. I. I also agree with you, Hitler, he's not coming back. Buying her on a roll. They've got some really great young players coming through. Like, he could plat by him for another four or five seasons. Like, he could then finish his career with four or five Bundesligas, three or four German Cups, some German Super Cups, maybe a Champions League. Like, he. He could then finish his career with all of those trophies that his ability desert, you know what I mean? Like, there'd be no.

He could finish his career at Real Madrid. They could go, we're just gonna. For the last couple of years.

He's still going, isn't he?

Yeah, he's lucky enough to play with Marcus Rashford, who scored again this weekend, didn't he? Done well, Rashford. Can I ask you about your thoughts on the leadership group he's created? This famous five of Vicario, Ben Davis, Romero, Madison and Van De Ven.

I'm pleased to see Van De Ven in there. I'm really, really pleased to see Van De Ven. I think you can see leadership qualities in. Van Deven is still very, very young, so I think giving him this kind of exposure is. Is a good thing. The others, it is what it is. Who else. Who else are you going to put in there? Do you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. There isn't anyone that stands out that makes you go, yep, you should definitely be in that group.

Like, what. What's the point? Does this stuff. This stuff would naturally happen anyway if they had. You know, there's. There's that thing.

Who actually is. Who actually is the vice captain? Because I thought when that, when that came out, I was like, unless I was being blind, I was like, I can't actually see. Like, if Romero doesn't play and all the others are, who's captain? Like, where of the days of your captain, your vice captain gone.

It'S captain is Romero. I've. I don't know. Is it. Madison is vice captain?

I don't know.

I don't know. I don't really understand the leadership group and I know it's probably the modern way and it's probably part of, like, the leadership committee that he has, and they're probably integrated that way. I just, I. Maybe I just don't understand it. And I ask you. I saw I saw someone post on Reddit the other week, they said, how good was Ledley King? I never really saw him. How good was he? Actually, it's one of those things. Is it, is it just a myth? What are his strengths and weaknesses and how great of a defender was he? And I think it's really difficult to go back and understand how good it is, how good he was because none of the videos will show you what he was good at. All the videos have got that tackle against Robin and a few other bits and bobs, but Ledley, the, the, the quote about Ledley is he never had dirty shorts, so he never had to make a sliding tackle. He was reading the game like messy levels of reading the game. He knew where people were going to be and he stopped things before they happened. So it, it looked, it was effortless and it almost was, it looked inconsequential, the things that he did because there were no consequences and he would, he was, he would have been the best defender in the league. He wouldn't be with Tottenham if he didn't have his injury.

Correct. Correct. The only, the only reason he stayed at spurs was because his injuries were so bad no one else would give him a contract, if we're being completely honest with you. Because you're not going to get enough out of him across the season. Look, I've always said this. He's my favorite ever spurs player. I'm absolutely adamant that I'll never see a better center half than him ever at Tottenham. Like, I just like the way that football is now as well. Center backs aren't as good as what they used to be. So I can't ever imagine us having a better, better defender. People forget that he played central midfield for England against the France side. Highest level of football you can play. And he's playing center midfield like in the, in the holding role. Like what other center backs are there ever in, in the last sort of 20, 30 years or even currently that were as good and comfortable sort of playing that defensive midfield role as they were at center back. Like there aren't any. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you even try and think of like you can't imagine. Do you know what I mean? The likes of Company or Van Dyke or Terry, like, summary, we need you to play midfield today. Like it just would. Like they just couldn't do it. In terms of. There's a brilliant question and I think in terms of his attributes, he pretty much had everything as a, as a player. Like physically he was what, 6162-good in the air. He's quick. He was strong. Not that he really needs to be because like I said he read the game so well. He was incredibly two footed. Like he used to play left, left side. As good on his left foot as on his right foot. Like if you want to research it. Peter Crouch on his podcast tells a story about how they didn't know whether or not Ledley was left or right footed as a youngster because he was, he was literally the same level of ability on both. Like so he was two footed player. I don't know what his weaknesses were. If I'm totally. You'd maybe say knee. Yeah but you'd, you'd, you'd maybe say if you being really, really picky. He maybe didn't sort of like have that aerial presence of a Van Dyke fidditch, do you know what I mean? Like they'd go forward for corners and bang, you know. He was much more of a. You have to ball and you have thick as hell, didn't you at the back. And he was, he was a classy player like he, he really was. So I think attribute wise he had pretty much everything and I think if you just go back and I don't know what the statistics are but look at spurs in the period he played for us and the win percentage with him and without him and like that's a sign of a player like do you know what I mean? We were a considerably better side with him. We had our best period with him, do you know what I mean? Up until sort of he finished the club have kicked on since then but we were at our best when Ledley was there and in the side. Fantastic leader. One club man as well which again you just don't see anymore. It's just a phenomenal player. Absolutely phenomenal. A fit ledly king. You're correct. He wouldn't have been at Spurs. He would have probably at the time. He probably would have played for Man United probably. That sort of feels like where he would have gone. I mean never strikes me as someone that would have gone abroad but you never know. And like a fit led leaking now is the best center back in the world in my opinion. Like it's when you watch, when you watch Van Djk and how easy Van Djk makes has made the game look the last few years that was Ledley but that was an era where every team had at least two really good center forwards and like I said equally as comfortable in midfield, as good in, in Europe in the Champions League or The Europa League, comfortable international level. Just an all round perfect player, really.

He often gets compared to Rio and John Terry. Right. And then John Terry is often put forward as the greatest, the greatest of the time. John Terry made 492 Premier League appearances and got 66 red yellow cards with an eight or so red cards. I think Ledly got eight yellow cards in 247 games. So half the amount of games.

Yeah.

And he went eight goal, eight games without even conceding a foul. Once scored more goals than he had yellow cards for a center back. It's unbelievable.

And you got to think as well, when he. When he sort of first come through and was breaking him in with England, he was playing. You see, you obviously had King, you had Ferdinand, you had Terry, and you had Campbell. And like, he was playing. And like I said, so much so they had to get him in the team. They pl. They were like, we'll play you in midfield then like, that's the. That's the level. Do you know what I mean? To be able to play out of position, it's just like, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And he was just. He was just such an elegant defender. I love watching defenders that put their head in there and that body on the line, all that. But like, Ledley was so good to watch because it's like, it was like. It felt like every game the opposition attacker wasn't at the races. And that's probably the biggest compliment. It's just like, oh, that, like that, that strike has just not had the ball. Like, have not been involved again. Thierry, hardest opponent he's ever played against.

He's your. He's your defender's favorite defender. Right? I met him. I had the honor of spending time with him because he. I did the legends tour of White Hart Lane with my dad for my dad's birthday. My dad's disabled and lady spent ages, like 20 minutes talking to him about hard it. How hard it is to be disabled, how hard it is to have an injury and to not be able to do things that you want to do. 20 minutes. He didn't have to do any of that. Literally just walk around the stadium as if it was normal. But it's mad that we're saying this because we've been blessed. We've seen some great center backs, whether you're going Toby Al, Mickey Van de Romero, World cup winner, but that he stands tall above them and you think about the other people you could compare him to at the time. Campbell, all the fuss about Campbell ledy was better than Campbell. Tony Adams, Ledley was better than Tony Adams.

So he's a, he's an all timer. He's a Spurs all timer and he's actually, he, I, I think as well, if you asked any Tottenham fan that had seen Ledly play to, to build their 1 to 11, I think he's in a hundred percent of teams. I don't think that if you've seen him like, I don't think that there's a Spurs fan alive that wouldn't put him in. You know what I mean? He's a, he's an absolute all timer.

You know, I'm 40 soon. I only started going to watch him when I was 21 properties because that's when I moved to London. So I think my generation, our generation, he's the Great, he is Mr. Tottenham. He's not the best player we've ever seen, but he's the greatest Tottenham player we've ever seen.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

More than Harry Kane. Harry Kane is similar levels of like elite when you compare him to everyone else. But there's something about King which is Tottenham. Maybe it's because he was a flawed genius. Maybe that's, that's why we love him so much. And he never liked his song, did he?

You know what, he's just, he's just an incredibly humble character as well. And like, personally, I like him even more like him even more.

Do you remember the story when he got arrested? Well, he got caught. He was absolutely hammered, stumbling out of a club and they arrested him. Then they went, boss man, boss man, you can't arrest me, I'm rich. And this is with his trousers around his ankles.

We've all been there.

And then that normalizes him a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, great guy, but great question. And like I, I actually feel like bad people didn't see him because you can't go to YouTube and watch it because he's not that. You know, you could go and watch the manuvidich and Vincent Co. And Carl's PR and players like that, like blocks and headers and you know, I mean like heroic last gas defending, all that stuff. Those clips don't exist of Ledley because he never needed to do it.

No, that, that is what you paid money for. You paid money to go make some memories. And you, you go to multiple games in the rain and the cold because it is cold now at night, can't take your bloody bag off to work. All of this stuff and you go because you want to remember hard ledly was how these players were that. That's what Tottenham's about for me. Got a bit of a break, man. And then we're playing Villa pretenders to the throne. It's weird, isn't it? Because like last season it was all with Newcastle Villa, Forest. They're going to be the. The teams to replace Tottenham in the top six. Look at them. Forest 17th. They're awful. Villa 13th. Not great. Newcastle 11th. They've only won two games this season out seven so far. It's weird how that works. And we're. We're set up there in third right now.

Yeah. And look, like I said a few weeks ago, I think you've just got to try and keep the run going as long as you can. Like Villa I think is a trickier game than what I think people think. They've just sort of turned in a bit of form of an Avilla. Excuse me. They're really struggling at the start of the season. But they started scoring and picking up wins and that again. So I think that's going to be a. A tougher game. But I think we've just got to keep doing what we're doing. Like I'm really confident in the way that we're set up. I'm really confident with the manager that we've got. And so I'm optimistic going into any game really. Now I did want to just touch upon for Nottingham Forest. I'm like, what is going on there?

Like, well, you know exactly what's going on there. The owner's the owner. I'm not gonna. I don't want to be libelous. But the owner's the owner and he's got his mate in who obviously qualified. He's won the Europa League last year. People like him as a manager. But spurs fans that aren't just in love with Ange are going, what did you expect? Look at the last 18 months. I don't want to go all in because I will go all in. But it's. It's not even I told you so. It's he told you so.

Yeah, well, I think most, most spurs fans level headed. Calm spurs fans like us. When they saw that Forest appointed him when Forest might go down, that was my first thought was like Forest, you're in trouble now. Like forget Europe, forget trying. Like you might go down.

Okay, here's one for you. Who's going first? Amarin, Amarim or Postecoglou?

I wouldn't be shocked if Postecoglou in this international break is gone with how up and down that Owner is like, it. Like if. If we went on Sky Sports now and it said he'd gone, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, not at all. And like, the best manager for him would be Nuno. But now they're. He's going to go to West Ham and he's going to do a job for West Ham. I think. I think West Ham are awful, but they'll be better than Forest.

I. I think West Ham will be okay because I think Nuno will. He's got a good record going in in those types of sides that aren't great. And can you bet the football's not going to be good for them to watch, but I think he'll get enough wins that they'll be okay.

I read an article by Jonathan Liu, which is really good, which was talking about how West Ham just isn't a club anymore. Like, they've lost all sold and identity. It must be. It must be really difficult being a West Ham.

I've got. I've got a lot of good mates that are West Ham fans. Like, and they're just like. They're just so overall. And it's like, what. Like what I meant to do.

Like, what are you connected to? Stadium's crap. Your players are crap. Bowen is there as your little hero and he's married to Danny D's daughter and all that. But if he goes, what. What is there that is worth hearing about? It's pretty disappointing because I always want him. And it's. When you said, like, he's going to go in. It won't be great football, but it will do a job. Like, they've had so much of that for. It feels like for 10 years, like we just need to survive. Same with Everton, that we just need to survive. And that's not what these clubs are. These are big, proud Premier League clubs.

But then they had Moyes, who bloody won a trophy for them. They were in Europe, was it three seasons in a row they were in the top 10 in the Premier League. Like, realistically, like, what more. What more can you really gain than that, you know? Mad.

Hey ho. All right, then. Got an international break, which it seems to have come around really quickly. So no games. So we might do a pod next week. Let's see. But any other business?

No other business.

No business. It's a good time to be a Spurs fan. It feels. I feel like when I'm watching the games, I hear a lot of negativity and a lot of frustration, but actually, when you step Back and go. This is a team that finished 17th last season. We're pretty abjectly poor. Yeah, we're sort of solving the defensive issues like you'll never not score goals unless you are Mourinho's Chelsea, which you can't do. So what you do around that, we're.

Doing pretty well and completely, completely where.

Where we are compared to the end of last year. Forget the Europa League win that. That was against an awful Man United team. Where we are in the league versus it's night and day and he's done an incredible job to get us there.

Yes, yes. Like, people are now getting frustrated because we're only winning 21 at Leeds. People are frustrated with that.

People leads in the last year.

But. But like how, like going back to the conversations we were having five, six months ago and it was like, oh, this week we've got Leicester at home and we'd be going a drawbee. All right.

Yeah.

Like, how many are we gonna get beat by, like, we've got Palace. How many are they going to put past us?

We're gonna concede in the first five minutes. Guaranteed. Yeah.

Balling behind, like, exactly. So it's like. Whereas now people are getting frustrated. It's like, oh, you know. And like, personally I look at that and go, that is such, like, testament to the job Frank's doing that people are like, no one said anything about the defenders. Although the conversations are already starting to happen, which we said, I think on the first show about the attacking output of the fullbacks. People are now already starting to get. And I'm like, that is the job that Thomas Frank has done amazing. I mean, he's gone in and he's gone. Let's sort the defense out. We now look a lot better at the back. We might lack a little bit of creativity. That will come. It's so, so, so much better in every single department. Like, we're just a better team at football. Fundamentally, that is what we are now.

That's it. We're just a better team.

We're better at football. Oh, God.

All right, man. Always good to see you. Welcome. Welcome home. I'll speak to you maybe next week. And don't forget, if you just bright, if you're just nearly right. Come on, you Spurs.

I always thought there was very, very many people interested in football. And I always thought that football was a very important game. But I never realized until today just how important it is whether the wonder boys of Pieteart Lane are or are not the team of the century. Can't possibly be more than a matter of opinion.

Well, they're the finest team in Great Britain. One of the best in the world.

We are about the glory of the game. We are about playing with style. We are Tottenham Hotspur. The curve of the ball, the billow of the net, the beating of the track and the picking of the lock. The swiftness of thought, the lightness of touch. We are Gineler, Greaves, Klinsman. We are the collective gasp, the intake of breath, the flick, the trick, the 30 yard free kick. We are Hodl, Mabbit and King. We are the lob, the chip, the dummy and the volley. We are the hat trick, the scissor kick. We are Bill Nick.

That is schoolboy's own stuff.

We are the outside of the boot, the inside of the net. And those seconds that last forever.

Vander to level it up. Rafael Vanderbaat. 2. 2. It's quite a game, isn't it always?

We are Jennings, Defoe and Perriman. Glory past, glory future. What was, what is, what's next. We are Blanchflower, Ardelis and baal. We are about winning with a flourish. We are about winning with style. We are about the glory of the game. Daring to try, daring to to risk. Daring to dream. To dare is to do.

He's all over. He can really stop him going all the way again here. And man has kicked him out. Oh, this is incredible. This is is quite incredible. Truly a glory, glory day for Tottenham Hotsmart.