Should Root be captain? Behind-the-scenes at The Hundred

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Adif Nawaz. Welcome to the TMS Podcast, where we are back behind the scenes with the BBC TV production team at Trent Bridge whilst they bring you Trent Rockets against London Spirit. To come, we'll hear from former India top-order batter and IPL winner Ajinkya Rahane about his journey to professional cricket. But first, The Hundred is well underway, and as is the speculation around who England's next Test captain could be. So I'm going to find some of the TMS regulars and ask, should Joe Root be the next England Test captain? You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Okay, I can see a few England internationals having a very detailed conversation. I'm almost reluctant to interrupt them, but I'm going to do it anyway because I spot my very good friend, Mr. Stephen Finney. How are you?

I'm very well, thank you.

How are you?

I'm very good, Finny. I wanted to ask you a very important question. Where did you get that shirt? Because I really like it.

That's a good question.

Just one more question. Just a small, just a tiny little thing. Do you think Joe Root should be the next England captain?

Well, look, the amount of speculation that there has been about this, about the appointment, it's been the most confusing 6 weeks ever in English cricket, I think. He would be a safe pair of hands until we know what's going to happen next, if that was the case. But I still think that my gut thinks that of the last Test XI to play, that Harry Brook would be the next England captain.

Do you think there's thoughts about coaches and things like that and good combinations and maybe just trying to future-proof that position?

Well, I think that you cannot pick a captain for the Test team until you know the coach, and because he will have or they will have a vision of what they, what they want, the manner in which they want the team to play. The voice that portrays that throughout the dressing room is a very important thing for the coach when taking on a team like that. And given the way the last 4 years have gone, the coach is going to have to be very strong in their views about the way that they want the team to go forward. So, yeah, it is almost impossible to speculate anything until we know who that coach is going to be. And as far as I'm aware, process is still ongoing.

Yeah, I mean, very well done, Vinnie. Nobody's going to give you any grief for that, or you're not going to get any trouble for that. But let me ask you a question that's slightly abstract, right? Which is that let's say that Joe Root is appointed captain of England, right? Um, would you keep him on through the Ashes, or would you consider making a change before that? Or whoever you appoint as England captain at this point, surely they've got to go all the way through the Ashes, or do you have a different view on that?

I don't think Necessarily not. I think it all depends on results. Clearly, if the team is winning and there's great cohesion between the coach and hypothetical Joe Root, who is now coach in this hypothetical world we've created, he— if that cohesion and that synergy is there, then there's absolutely no reason why. But again, it's all speculation at the moment.

Yeah, we like to speculate sometimes. It's all right. Nothing wrong with that. Listen, I'm so sorry for interrupting what was clearly a very important conversation, but thanks for talking to me, Finny. Appreciate you.

Thanks.

Right, let me wander in here and see who I can find wandering around here at Trent Bridge. Oh, goodness me, look at that, it's former world number 1 David Millan. I'm going to have a chat with you in just a— I've got Ajinkya Rahane as well, former India international. Let me ask you something, David Millan. What do you think? Should Joe Root be England's new Test captain?

Oh, you're putting me on the spot there. Well, look, I think if he's going to do it on an interim basis, it would be because they're unsure who the coach is. And I think he's a very good fit for that interim basis. I think from a long-term point of view, you probably want to look at someone else. That's not to say Joe couldn't do a fantastic job. It's just I think he's had his time and he's had his cycle. And I think if you're going to get a new coach, you want to have a new captain that you can, you can work with. So if they haven't worked out who the coach is going to be, then I think Joe Root is a good option until they know what it's going to be. And then that coach can decide who that new captain could be.

It's a very interesting way to look at it. Ajinkya, don't feel like you have to agree with David at all. I know you're a very polite man, but you don't have to agree. What are your thoughts? Joe Root, England Test captain.

See, at the moment, the situation England Test cricket is in, probably they don't know who the coach they'll appoint. Joe Root will be— it's not a long-term opinion from my side. He's at his age, at his time, where he just probably would like to enjoy the game more rather than take that responsibility. But Again, identifying the young captain going forward, England would like to identify young, a couple of the two guys who can lead the team well. But again, I little bit agree on what Ravichandran said, an interim captain, probably 10 or 12 matches, and develop a captain who will be there to serve England cricket for next, what, 5, 10 years. But long-term solution, I don't think Joe Root is the guy. All due respect to him, at his stage, He just needs to go out there, score runs for England, and win the Test matches for England.

Where does—

what do you think Harry Brook fits into all this, David? Because like he would have been the next cab off the rank, right?

Yeah, and funny enough, tactically he's actually very good as a captain. I've played under him quite a lot, um, at the Sunrisers last year— well, it was the Northern Superchargers. I've spent a lot of time in addressing with him. Tactically, he's very, very good. He's very clear about how he wants to go and what the team needs to look like. Um, once again, it just depends on what the coach is going to be and what type of coach. If it's a more conservative coach, then does his way of thinking fit into it? But I think he has all the leadership qualities. He's obviously made his mistakes off the field, which is well documented. I think that's in the past now. I think he's learned from that, uh, so I wouldn't hold that against him. I think it would be purely a cricketing decision whether he gets the captaincy or not, but I think he could do a fantastic job.

Well, David's, I think, taking quite a, you know, quite a forgiving view there, really, with Harry Brook. I mean, do you think coaches would be reluctant to come straight in and work with Harry Brook? Uh, is that something that could happen?

See, frankly, I don't know Harry Brook that much about his leadership quality, but I'm sure what Avit said, whatever I have seen Harry Brook, you know, playing and leading the team, he can read the game really well. But at the same time, Joe Root has shoulder on his head, on his shoulder. He can actually be that guy who can groom probably a couple of the players who can lead the England team, England Test team especially, and then take it on from there. So It's not a bad thing that they appoint Joe Root as a captain for probably 5 or 5-10 Test matches and then hand it over captaincy to someone else.

In an Ashes year as well, we're chopping and changing captains. Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. I know you've got broadcast responsibilities. I'll get out of your way. Thanks so much, guys. Go well, go well. I'm going to take one of your flapjacks as well. Thank you so much. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. I can just see Ebony Rainford-Brent having a little snack, so maybe I'll just sneak up on her. She won't mind, she's lovely. Ebony Rainford-Brent, how are you? Eurovision.

Hello, good to see you. Always great to see you.

How are you, first of all?

I'm fantastic. Cricket's happening, cricket season, life is good.

Yeah, lots of happening, cricket, all of that stuff, as you say. Should Joe Root be the next captain of England?

I think he's a great option in the sense of, I just think right now there's a lot going on. Um, the question for me is more, does he want it? I think that's the only thing that would be the real question. If he does, I think It's a lot at the moment. You've got Harry Brook absolutely nailing the white ball game, leading. Look how good they're doing. They've got to T20 rankings. It's a big job to put it all together. So if Joe Root's up for it, I think it's worth a serious consideration. If—

even if he isn't up for it, do you think it's like a responsibility thing at this point as like the senior man to take it on, or would you just not want to disturb him as he gets closer and closer to Sachin's record?

You're saying don't weigh him down. I think by now he's kind of been there, done that, you know. I think that's the— that's why they gave it to him in that middle game test. I just think he's not going to be shaken in the same way. He might have learned actually a bit through the last era of McCullum and Stokes in terms of maybe being changing his style. I think he's a great option. The question is if he wants it. Once he decides that, or if he decided that, then, you know, then I think that would provide a good balance for a while, not overloading Brook, who, one of your great players with too much. And Joe Root can bring all of his experience.

So let's say you do go Root. Like, do you leave it with him all the way through the Ashes?

Oh, that's a really good question. Yeah. And look, I think we also have to think about the coach coming in. The usual person who's going to make that call is that combination. You know, that's 18 months. I think that's a nice window. I think it's not too far that someone like him has to overcomplicate it, but it's far enough that you've got a very clear goal ahead. So that would be a good window if that works for him. Coach-Captain, I think many people would be big fans.

And what about what kind of coach? I mean, you could just throw a few names out there. You don't have to tell me unless you know something. What kind of a coach would complement Joe Root well, do you think?

It's a good question. I think he was definitely bolstered by the Brendan McCullum style. And so I think he definitely will want someone who's going to bring a bit of that.

Bring back Baz?

You're setting the headline, aren't you? You know, the names are out there. Out there. I think, you know, we know it's not going to be Andy Flower, which I was actually thinking as the forerunner and front-runner, you know, he brings so much. But everyone's putting options out there. We don't know, you know, honestly, we don't know where we're at in that. But I think he will, I think what I wouldn't like to see this England team do is go too far the polar opposite and become too conservative and a coach that takes some direction. I think Joe Root with a coach that brings that front foot and still positive thinking forward, then you've got a good combination.

Okay, one more scenario for you. Let's say they give it to Joe Root, okay, and he becomes the Test captain. And like, you know, I'm not saying I want this to happen, but let's say the 3 Tests against Pakistan don't go to plan, then what happens?

You can't bin off a captain after a couple of games. You have to back your players. That's the challenge with sport. You can't just overnight expect magic, you know, you need to give it a run. So I'm saying give this team 12 to 18 months with a clear goal. End of Ashes. And I think England needs to pick one captain for that period.

Ebony Rainford-Brent, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. As always.

I've just spotted Deep Dasgupta in the air opener. Just see he's in fierce concentration mode. I almost don't want to disturb him. I'm going to anyway because he's a nice man. He won't mind. Deep, how are you?

I'm very good, Athers.

Yeah.

Okay, good, good.

I'm trying to pick up.

I'm talking to you.

Oh, you're very sweet. You're very sweet. Listen, I wanted to ask you if a little bit later on you could help me work on my tennis forehand. Is that okay?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Yeah.

Just one more small thing. Do you think Joe Root should be the next captain of England?

Oh, that's a tricky one. Maybe not. Maybe not. Because one, I think he's in a really good space and he has been in Test match cricket for last, at least last couple of years. Just leave him the way he is right now. That's one. And secondly, I think it's time also for, for English Test side to look forward rather than back. So for me, I think maybe someone who hasn't led the side, whoever it is, could be Harry Brook or even Ben Duckett for that matter. If it's a short-term thing, it boils down whether the next captain you're thinking as a short gap till ECB finds the right coach, because that relationship is also very, very crucial. The coach— because at this point in time ECB doesn't have a coach either. So coach-captain relationship is important. If ECB is appointing a coach right now, might as well ask him what he wants. But if they're not picking a coach and waiting for the end of the summer or the season, then maybe look at a short-term captain, not a long-term 4 or 5 years down the line. So yeah, I think there are a few calls that needs to be taken right now. But as far as Joe Root is concerned, I'm just going to leave him the way he is right now. He's at this point in time the best Test batter in the world. And just let him be, uh, and score runs like he's been doing, and, and not kind of pile on more responsibilities.

If England do appoint a short-term captain, do you think that's in their best interest? Because remember, the rest of the world may build towards the World Test Championship, but England almost single-mindedly builds towards the Ashes, and, and next season is the Ashes. So, you know, like, I mean, I feel like the next captain of England needs to see them through the Ashes. Am I wrong in thinking that? Do you think there could be a gap?

No, absolutely not wrong in thinking on those lines. But then again, I think the first call that needs to be made before the captain is the coach. And then once you figured out who the coach is, and then maybe get him into confidence and say, you know, these are the choices, who do you want? Are you looking at left field? Or these are the obvious choices or whatever. You never know. So I think Rather than getting a captain and then a coach, I would look at it the other way around and say, try and get a coach and then, you know, his opinion would be very, very important. Because end of the day, it's the coach and the captain which will take the team forward.

Deep, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. I'll let you go back to what you're doing, but we'll talk about that tennis forehand.

Yeah.

Okay, cool. Thanks so much. Thanks, Deep.

Thanks.

What a guy. What a guy. The TMS Podcast. From BBC Radio 5 Live. It's a pleasure to have former India batter and IPL winner Jinkya Rahane part of our television coverage, and we're going to hear more from him right now. He spoke to Amber Sandhu down on the boundary edge about his journey to professional cricket, as well as what it's like to be part of our television coverage of The Hundred.

Jinx, it's been so great to have you. I can't believe this is your last game. How is, how is the UK treated you and how have you found The Hundred?

It's been really good so far. For me, it's been a really good experience. So thank you so much for having me. Lots to learn. I mean, there's a different kind of pitch for me. I mean, the last 19, 20 years I've been on the other side just preparing for the games or different tournaments. But now talking about the game, it's completely different. My nature is I'm pretty much very quiet, very shy guy. But here I'll have to come slightly out of my character and talk more about the game. But it's been really fantastic. I really enjoyed a lot.

Well, you haven't come across quiet, but you have come across as very humble. And I know you're not going to enjoy seeing this, but your stats are on the screen right now. You're somebody who will go down as a legend. You've had success across all three formats, 85 Tests for India. When you look at those stats, Ajinkya, how do you look back at your career? How do you reflect?

The journey has been really good so far. I'm still playing cricket, so really grateful. I mean, as a young kid, your dream is always to represent your country, represent your state team, and try and play with all the players, you know, who you've been idolized throughout your younger days. So it's been really, really great. Lots to learn. And I've been really fortunate to play play with all these senior players, the, the players I have idolized— Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Mahendra Singh Dhoni, and all these guys. The batch we had, Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, and all these players— Ravi Chandran Ashwin. It's been really fantastic. So yes, the journey I started from Dombivli city in Mumbai, which I used to travel 2 hours one way by local train to play a game, come back again 2 hours. So as a young kid, taught me many things, but the journey has been fantastic.

We'll go back to all of those big names that we all know very soon. But in terms of your upbringing and growing up in Mumbai, I imagine in India it's every kid's dream to play for India, but very few get to do it. What was it like for you growing up and that dream and how far away that dream was?

I think the credit goes to my family. Come from a very lower middle class family where I used to struggle for the, for the money as well. My father was the only earning member in our family. I have a brother and a sister as well. So it was really tough in the initial days, but when they saw my talent, when they saw I was actually enjoying it, I was really passionate, I used to love every single day. As I said, 2 hours in train journey, it's really tough in Mumbai. Whoever has traveled in the local trains in Mumbai, they'll probably understand how tough it is. But see, whatever I am today is because of my parents, because of my friends, their blessings as well. For me, the only dream whenever I should travel by local train, as I said, the dream was to represent the Mumbai team, the state team, and then eventually go and play for the country as well. So every single day it was always about what I wanted to achieve, and no, that only happened because of my parents' blessings.

And in terms of that humble start, you said that it was such a journey to get to training. What kept you going? Where did that belief come from? You said you just wanted to play for Mumbai, and then, you know, playing for India was a dream. But what kept you going during those times?

It's just the dream of playing for your country. I mean, that obviously kept me going. But no, I'll tell you one incident. Uh, when I was at the age of 7, I was traveling by local train. The first day my father came and dropped me, he had to take leave from his office, and he didn't get paid. That time. And the second day he said, you will have to travel alone by local train.

And you were 7?

I was just 7. At the age of 7, traveling with my own kit bag, the packed local train, early hours of, uh, in Mumbai. And he didn't tell me that. He, after probably 5 or 6 years down the line, he told me on that day he was following me from another compartment just to see if I'm, uh, no, if I reach the railway station, uh, okay or not. And that actually hit me hard. No, that, that's the time I decided, you know, whatever I do from here on, whether I play for my state or, or my country, I'll do it for my parents. And that motivation, that inspiration always kept me going.

At 7 years old, traveling, I mean, what you thought was by yourself is not easy. Your parents must be very proud of you, James.

They are really proud of me. And, uh, and every single day I'm constantly in touch with them. See, whatever you achieve in your life, I always— my father always told me one thing, So whether you do really well in cricket, people will probably recognize you. But no, real success is be a very good human being. Try and respect everyone, every individual, whatever. If they— even if they're clerk or the, uh, the managing director of the company, try and treat them, uh, with the same thing. Be humble, respect, uh, show respect towards the people. If you become a very good human being, that is a success for you. So I'm trying to just— trying to do that. Obviously, you know, along the way you make mistakes, you You make errors as well. But from my side, whatever I am today, I'm standing with you all, it's just because of cricket. So I try to keep it really simple, just be a normal, normal human being on and off the field and try and respect people.

I can vouch for that because when I met you on Tuesday at the opening game at the Oval, I'll admit because I'm human, I was a little bit starstruck. I grew up watching you and it didn't feel like a legend had walked in. You are just the most normal and down-to-earth human, and that comes from your upbringing.

Obviously, the upbringing of my parents and watching all the senior legends play— Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, uh, no, apart from cricket, Roger Federer, who is my role model also. Watched him, uh, very closely, uh, was lucky enough to meet him as well during Wimbledon. So I think you take all these good qualities from these people, not only on the field what they achieve, but also off the field, how they behave with all the people.

Well, Jinx, let's move on to that moment then that you got your India call-up. Could you believe it? Do you remember where you were at that moment you got the phone call?

You were told India call when I was at home. My debut, I said earlier, no, during the first game, my debut happened in England. The cricketing debut.

Yes, it did. It was in Manchester.

Yes, Manchester.

Yes.

And then commentary debut also happened in England. So you need to just move here.

You need to move here.

No, but I was at home just talking with my mother that time, and now when the call came up, I thought someone is actually doing a prank on me, and I couldn't believe it. And then reporters, all the news guys started calling me, and I can't forget that moment when I told my mother about when I got selected. She had tears in her eyes. Obviously, the hardships, hardships what they I've done throughout the years. They always wanted me to see playing for the country, and that moment was really special.

Where have they put your first shirt? Because I imagine your parents have it.

Yes, they do.

Yeah.

Do they have it hung up in the house somewhere?

Yes, they have it.

Fantastic.

And there's a moment, probably, uh, we live like half an hour, 40 minutes, uh, yeah, away. They kept all the smallest of the smallest thing at home from my younger days, the memory what they have. And every time when I go I see them, they'll keep— they keep on telling me, you have all these things, you can keep it. I said no, just keep it here so that I have that memory with, you know, uh, with the place.

Thanks to Ajinkya Rahane and Amba Sandhu for that. And thanks to you for listening. That's it for this episode of the TMS Podcast. Make sure you've subscribed so you never miss an episode. And remember, you can hear every ball of the Hundred this season on BBC Sounds.

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