Storm in a teacup for Stokes? And Sciver-Brunt injury dampens win

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Henry Moran. Welcome to the Test Match Special Podcast. We'll be hearing from the England men's stand-in captain, Joe Root, and getting reaction to England women's win over Ireland in the Women's T20 World Cup. Let's start at the Oval, where I think it's fair to say it's been an unsteady start to the summer for England's men, with the stories surrounding Ben Stokes and Gus Atkinson breaking the team's curfew and thus both being made unavailable for the Test match against New Zealand at the Oval. And let's first go to our cricket correspondent Stefan Schemelt, who's been there all day with Joe Root back in familiar territory. Blazer back with him, no doubt, for the Test week and back on media duties.

Yeah, thank goodness that a Test match is about to break out. We've only had 166 overs of this Test match summer so far, but let's see if I can rattle off the top of my head everything that's happened. So we've had Ben Stokes and Gus Atkinson stood down for this Test match, Ollie Robinson is injured. Kane Williamson has retired. Devon Conway's gone back to New Zealand for the birth of his child. Shoaib Bashir, he's been dropped despite not bowling a single ball at Lord's. Doesn't it feel like a long time ago that we were talking about the pitch at Lord's, by the way? But here we are, and England have got the chance to win a Test match series. They haven't done that for 18 months, and believe it or not, they haven't played a Test match against New Zealand at the Oval since 1999. And on that occasion, the England captain got booed. I don't think we'll be getting that towards Joe Root this week. Maybe just a few "Roots" when he walks out to bat or he walks out to toss the coin. But it's been a really strange buildup to this Test match for loads of different and some very obvious reasons. And yesterday there was that really somber press conference from Brendan McCullum where he talked about his worry and concern for Ben Stokes. Well, that's been flipped on its head a a little bit this morning by the Durham head coach Ryan Campbell, saying that Stokes is in good spirits and Stokes could play for Durham against Northamptonshire in the County Championship on Friday. And while he's doing that, England will be captained once again by Joe Root. 64 previous Test matches in charge, the most by any man to captain England. When he finished the job in 2022, he was completely broken by it, and he would later say, I that he'd had an unhealthy relationship with the captaincy. It was interesting to hear him talk today about coming back to the job. He talked about it's gonna be on a game-by-game basis. He wasn't drawn on whether or not he could do it longer term, but he definitely didn't say he wouldn't. He did say also that he'd been in touch with Ben Stokes on taking the job.

Well, I've had a couple of conversations with him. You know, I spoke to him a number of times over the last week or so, but as you say, we're close friends and I think they should stay privileged conversations between me and him. And again, I think when it comes to how Ben's feeling, how he is, I think they're all questions that he should be answering himself. And I'm sure at the right time when he's ready, he will. I'm sure he has the respect of everyone in our dressing room. He's been a phenomenal leader for a number of— well, what, for the last 4 years? I think the way he's captained has been brilliant. We've achieved some wonderful things as a team and as a group. Won a hell of a lot of Test matches, and clearly he's, you know, he's a talismanic player, great friend to a number of the guys, and of course, huge amount of respect there from everyone.

What was the reaction, Joe, when you got asked to be captain? Did you have to think about it, or was it an instant yes?

Had a little think about it, but, you know, I'm very excited with, you know, the opportunity that we have ahead of us and to I guess, be captain in this group of players is a really exciting opportunity. I think I'm in a very different place to when I finished. It's going to be a really fun week, so I'm looking forward to getting out there on the field and for us to, you know, get playing again.

You talk about being in a different place to when you finished being captain. You've been really honest with us before to say that actually you and the captaincy had a bit of an unhealthy relationship. I'm sure you don't appreciate the circumstances in which you've got this opportunity, but actually, is it quite nice to have a, I don't know, an encore?

Yeah, I do. I'm really looking, and I have enjoyed the last couple of days working with Baz in a slightly different space. And, you know, there's one thing that I was always in a small way, in a good way, slightly envious of was the opportunity to work with someone like Baz in this sort of capacity and it's been really cool the last couple of days and as I say it's a very different look to even the team that we had last week but it's very exciting as well and for all the reasons I mentioned earlier to get to, I guess, lead those guys out and to help operate how we work this week in that space is going to be really good.

Looking at it as a one-week job?

Well, it's a game-by-game basis I think.

You played under Alistair Cooke who did the job for a long time, you did it for a long time, Ben's done it for a long time. Can you talk about what being captain does to a player, to a human being, how much time it, I don't know, occupies your mind, how much it takes over your life?

Yeah, I can only give you my perspective on it. You know, I don't know what those guys have felt, but from my perspective, it's probably slightly unique in many ways because for the last couple of years it was in a COVID environment. And that had quite a big toll, not just on your own personal state, but also, you know, the rest of the guys around you. And I think we played nearly around about 20 Test matches in those COVID environments. You watch the rest of the world go back to normality around you, and, you know, you're living a very different way to the rest of society. So over time, that took its toll on just the group, but also myself, I found that I ended up being so consumed with everything, I wasn't the person that I wanted to be. And it was the right time to step away, not just because our performances weren't where they needed to be. It was a great opportunity for a fresh start for English cricket. And, you know, was absolutely the right decision. Look at what happened off the back of it, it was amazing. And, you know, those 4 years, these last 4 years have been the most exciting and fun part of my career, so I don't regret any of that decision-making or any of that side of things. I've loved the opportunity to come have a, you know, I think some guys find it difficult to come back in that capacity, in that space, as a senior player having captained before, but I've loved that role, being able to offer something slightly different. It is going to be quite cool to experience it this side of the, you know, experience the captaincy side of it with Baz and with this coaching group. I've never had more fun and got more out of a group of coaches than this group. So it should be a great weekend, you know, a great opportunity to win a series.

Daniel Norcross is alongside me, Alex Hartley, World Cup winner with England as well. And turbulent, I think, is probably the word to use to describe the last week or so, Daniel.

Yeah, it's brilliant, isn't it? So England come back after a disastrous Ashes series, they get a really massive morale-boosting win. And before you know it, they've lost their captain, they've lost the guy who's got himself back on the honors board at Lord's for the 6th time or something utterly ridiculous. They've lost the guy who's come back into the side with a knee injury, a man about whom there were so many concerns about his fitness before that, and he looked absolutely fine, but now he's out. Um, and they've lost a wicketkeeper, all for various different reasons. I, I think 5 changes overall now. Which is extraordinary. It gives opportunities to the likes of Sonny Baker on debut, Matt Fisher making a comeback after 4 and a half years. But turbulent is the word, and I don't know how you guys feel about it really. I'm fascinated in your views. I've done a couple of public events, and the general feeling in the general public where I've been in rooms has been that it's a storm in a teacup, that they can't understand why there was a curfew at the end of the Test match.

Yeah.

A lot of people said to me, why did the ECB say there was a curfew? If they just hadn't said there was a curfew, then the story as described to us is two England cricketers find themselves in a bar, not particularly late at night, and—

Do we know how late it was?

1 o'clock is what I think we're running on, but we don't have hard and fast information about it. But there hasn't been any suggestion, for example, that the England captain Ben Stokes was involved in any of it. And yet, because of this curfew, a curfew that was supposedly imposed and agreed, very much agreed to by the England captain, and because he's the one who's broken it—

But he set the curfew.

He set the curfew. Then of course you're wondering, how can, how can he not be sanctioned for that? Of course, if you don't know there's a curfew, if we don't know there's a curfew—

But it's a bit disingenuous if— Well, and is there not a disconnect between the team who will feel that, well, hold on a minute, you know, we're inside this dressing room where we know this is the case and we've been let down. But I suppose—

By the captain.

But I suppose without the public pressure, that changes things a bit.

It does.

Look, I'm not suggesting for one minute that the ECB should be disingenuous. I'm just saying that it's quite odd in a way that at the end of a Test match, when there's 10 days until the next Test match, that they have a curfew. You know, I sort of get the curfews when you're on tour. I mean, I say that, I think it's a heavy-handed instrument myself, but it's one that the captain was strong on. But to have it when you've got this massive gap and you're playing home Test matches seems a bit like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. And of course, the irony of it being because of Harry Brook, who's the vice captain.

But there's a curfew—

You as a player, Ali.

Because they can't behave. So yes, there's a whole argument of treat adults like adults and let them choose their own bedtime, but You think of everything that's gone on in the past, you know, Joss Butler's white ball team had a curfew and it, yeah, the players didn't like it, but they all stuck to it and they all, they were like, right, okay, yeah, we don't, you know, we don't necessarily agree with it, but we're gonna do it. Then Ben Stokes and Brendan McCullum came in, got rid of the curfews, and then all hell breaks loose. They're out till God knows when, they're seen by journalists in the middle of the Ashes at 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock. There's the Ben Duckett situation, there's then the Harry Brook situation, so.

Noosa, of course, all of Noosa.

Yeah, so then you think actually maybe they do need a curfew, not because they, they can't behave and they don't know how to behave and they can't go on nights out and enjoy themselves, but it's how it looks to everybody else.

One sort of area I do want to get on to is the future of Ben Stokes because it feels very confused to me because a lot of the messaging that we've had has been, we're very worried for Ben, and that has been the sort of consistent messaging, but he's also sort of conversation about representing Durham. And so because he wants to play cricket, it's very hard to know where we are with everything. Well, he's suspended for this game by the— you know, he's not selected for this.

Well, there was— we tried to read things into communiqués, aren't we, a lot of the time. And when the first communiqué came out about Joe Root, it described him as interim captain with a capital I, and that sort of gave you the idea that the door was very much open for Ben Stokes to return after a seemingly period. And that seemingly period might have been one Test match, it might have been the remainder of this series, and then he returns to captain at the back end of August, isn't it, when England series against Pakistan. I suppose once it gets to that, you're starting to think that that looks different. So yes, but then as you quite rightly point out, Henry, we're hearing all of these Concerns. Uh, Brendan McCullum gave a long press conference yesterday, did he not, when there were a lot of concerns for Ben Stokes. If there— if Ben Stokes is in that much of a bother, then he wouldn't be— he wouldn't want to play for Durham on Friday, would he?

Yeah, of course he would, because he's in the middle of a Test summer, and if he's going to play the third Test, he can't just have 2 and a half weeks off. No, so he's gonna— he's gonna have to carry on for his workloads and his fitness and everything.

He's gonna have to go through this inquiry, haven't they? Do inquiries get finished up yet? In my experience, internal ECB inquiries could often take quite a long time, but it's also through the regulator and all that.

Yeah, that it could take time, but it might, it might take, might not. But also, we've not heard from the other side. We're just speculating about everything. We've not heard anything from the rugby side, nothing at all.

I think An interesting question to ask is, you know, do England really want him back, or is this a— they— it's the process they've got to go through before he can come back? Um, do they want— does Ben Stokes feel that they want him back? And also, you know, what's the general mood? I mean, my, my sounding of the general mood is that fans, cricket fans, want Ben Stokes back. But there's been concerns about the relationship between Ben Stokes and Brendan McCullum, and all of them are very fuzzy, all of them are unclear because we don't know the details of them. It's just left this vacuum in which we are speculating. I, I'm quite concerned that it could be the end of Ben Stokes's England career, but that it would have happened in such, such a, an empty way. you know.

It is an empty way. And look, he's not gone to bed at midnight, you know, he's an adult, he doesn't have to go. But he made the curfew. Him and the coaches and Rob Key said, our team's not behaving, I'm captain, yes, I agree to this curfew. And then he's the one that's broken it and taken out one of the young kids.

What about the sort of public perception of this England team? Um, this week there's a completely different lineup and all the focus will be on the Test match tomorrow morning when it gets underway. It'll be thrilling to see Joffre Archer bowling for England once again. It'll be exciting to see a new, uh, yeah, a new star potentially in James Roo getting our opportunity and all sorts of other things. But there is work to do, isn't there, in terms of public opinion?

Of course. And it felt like, felt like they were getting there. I know it's one, one Test match, but you know, Stokes was talking in the build-ups to the game, so he's not drinking to work on his fitness. And the team, they've got the curfew and Everything was to get back that trust, and obviously teams— fans, sorry, want to see your team winning. And yes, it wasn't a great pitch, but England managed to get over the line. It's like, okay, Test cricket's back. They can't even get through a Test match without misbehaving, and everyone just goes, oh, here we go again.

When you received that message, as you know, we all will have done at the same time via our WhatsApps— I laughed.

I genuinely laughed, and I said, here we go again. I can't believe we've not even got through one game.

Because I don't want to talk about that sort of thing. I mean, I know we have to, and I know some people do love talking about it. I love talking about the cricket, and I was really enjoying watching that test on a lottery of a pitch, it has to be said. But I thought some people like Emilio Gay, his debut has been overshadowed. Gus Atkinson and Ollie Robinson were overshadowed. They were two stars of the ball. Josh Tunn being brilliant.

Yeah.

And you don't remember any of it though, do you?

No, because we're talking about two people—

Two adults.

Two adults in a nightclub, but we don't know any of the details about it at 1 o'clock after a Test match has finished.

It's boring, innit, actually?

It is rather, and yet the ramifications are enormous.

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So England win here at the Hampshire Bowl by 4 wickets, chasing down a target of 119. They did lose 6 wickets in pursuit of Ireland's total. They got over the line to make it 2 wins from 2 after the comprehensive victory over Sri Lanka. It's a victory over Ireland that sees England with a perfect record, but a concern— Captain Nat Sciver-Brunt retiring on 48 and being assessed for tightness in her calf. So a little bit of a concern for England's star all-rounder and captain. We will bring you news of that scan and any details and and what have you as and when we get it. But alongside me, I'm very pleased to say, Catherine Siver-Brunt, Ashes and World Cup winner with England, also World Cup winner Alex Hartley is alongside me. And at the end of all that, it wasn't a perfect performance, Catherine, but England were pretty good and they got the job done.

Yeah, again, I think they would have wanted to have been as clinical as possible today, and the first half of this game was absolutely that, wasn't it. Um, it was a great performance with the ball. Um, Ireland were— again, they would be so disappointed with the performance they, they put with the bat. They're so much better than that, and, um, that was disappointing. But also, you can't take away the fact that England were just too good with the ball for them tonight. So a mixture of that, some great energy, um, good leadership, and then the chase like that tiny little wobble which they needed just to remain, you know, with it, with the, the whole tournament that you need. Like I said, you need those, those little wobbles to move forward and learn from and to remind the rest of the teams around that that middle order is very strong and not to be too cocky when, when only 3 down in the power play. You can't write this, this type, this team off. And so what progressed then was a clinical performance from the two.

Here's Sophie Ecclestone, who is player of the match, having taken 3 wickets.

Cup winner for England and legend, and she's going to present the trophy to Sophie Ecclestone for 3 wickets for 22, uh, runs from her 4 overs. Congratulations. Uh, first of all, Sophie, the team are on a bit of a roll at the moment. 2 from 2.

Yeah, it's obviously so nice to get off to a winning start, and hopefully we can keep it going.

Today you went to a milestone. You're in the top 5 of all-time wicket-takers in T20s. Seems like the form's going right.

Yeah, it's not too bad. I'm not really a stat girl, so to hear about that's obviously really nice. But yeah, I'd say it's hopefully gone 3 from 3 onside. It'd be really nice.

And one of the senior bowlers in this side now, what do you think your role is to continue through this tournament?

Yeah, hopefully keep taking wickets. I'm really lucky to have a really great spin attack and seam attack, so hope that can continue.

And of course, your team's starting strong now, so going into the next few games is where it's going to start to really count.

Yeah, it's very exciting. I actually can't wait to keep it going. Brilliant.

Well, congratulations for your trophy today. Thanks for your time.

Thank you.

Well, that was Sophie Ecclestone speaking to Ebony Rainford-Brent. We were just looking through the scorecard there, Catherine, of Sophie Ecclestone picking up 3 for today and getting player of the match. There was a few options for England in the end.

Um, it was, it was clinical across the board, wasn't it? Um, in terms of the bowling department. It could have been anyone, but I don't know, just looking at the scorecard and then Charlie Dean took two top-order batswomen with her today and very cheaply, 4 overs for 11. So, you know, between the two of them, 100% could have gone either way. Um, I don't want to take anything away from Sophie because it's great to see her back in the wickets. Um, but yeah, I think Charlie was She just, just the pace of it, and she had it on a piece of string, didn't she? She's really causing a lot of problems. Um, yeah, the control she showed today was exceptional, um, and in the field as well, she was, she was on it. Nat could easily have walked away with it had she not walked off. 48 not out, she'll take that. Um, yeah, it could have been anyone's day today, and I think, I don't know who decides it, the umpires.

It's a good question.

Alex, you did a marvelous job of covering for me as I just ran to the back of the box grab something because the interview finished at exactly the wrong moment. So you're going to have to forgive me for that. But Alex, you did a glorious job doing an impersonation of me. So thank you. 119 for 6, England finished on to get over the line and they hit the top of the group on 4 points. I mean, at this point you're sort of thinking it's— they've got one foot through, haven't they?

Yes, but today wasn't as clinical as it could have been. You know, you feel like, could England or should England have chased that down 2 or 3 down, really? You would think so, wouldn't you? Obviously losing Dani Wyatt-Hodge and Amy Jones early, Alice Capsie getting out to a full straight ball from Prendergast, Heather Knight then falling LBW to Prendergast again. And then once Heather— once Siva Brunt retired, it was almost like, okay, well, there's a silly run out between Gibson and Kemp. But actually there's a big part of me that goes England should have been more clinical, could have been more clinical, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. Get it out the way.

Yeah, they had, they had such a great day across the board, didn't they, last game, that we were almost expecting the same today. And then I just think, you know, with that pitch being used, it was never going to be a high-scoring game, so we can let them off.

Yeah, it's the third time that that surface has been used, and, uh, chasing a target which— it's the sort of target, you know, that you'd have to play incredibly badly not to chase down. So it's sort of a bit of a scrambled mind perhaps, and England lost early wickets though.

It was—

it got a bit worrying when 3 wickets fell in double quick time. England were cruising really at the top of the order, 27 without loss. That became 28 for 2 with both openers out, and then 35 for 3 with Capsy dismissed. And you sort of started thinking, well, they're not gonna— they're not gonna lose this game surely, but there's gonna be a little bit of a test.

Well, the only way Ireland was— were gonna win was to take wickets. And that's what they did in the power play, taking 3 early wickets and, and 3 quick wickets. You sort of thought, well, you never know, England, if you could get into their middle order as quick as possible and put the youngsters under pressure, you never know. But that partnership between Heather Knight and Sivabrunt just sealed, sealed the victory for England, really.

Yeah, and that was the thing that you, you called it at the time, Alex. You said if there's one partnership you want coming together at this phase, it is those two, because their experience and Again, as you mentioned, Catherine, there is something to be said for players having to recover from a little bit of an awkward position because it can, it can just give you the opportunity to build confidence and win in different ways as much as anything else. We're going to hear from the captain shortly. No, go on, just in case you get—

I was panned to the end.

No, I was as well.

In case we get interrupted.

Yeah, it is. You definitely want that. You want to expose everybody under every circumstance. Being 3 down in the power play, Al, we were always told, well, we've got the stats in the meeting room, you're 3 down in the power play, you lost.

That's it, you're losing.

You literally get it in your head, you're like, we're 3 down, we're done.

That's it, game over.

Especially under 40 runs, that scenario is 90% true. So sometimes that can get in your head and give you a bit of a wobble before you've even had the chance to rectify it. So those two coming in is fantastic. And then they're, you know, born for that situation. But we absolutely want to see those two, Kemp and Gibson, fire at the back end of a, of, you know, when we set a total. I would love to see them set an enormous total or finish off a big score that people don't think we can finish. So yeah, it'd be lovely to see them get the opportunity to do that before the big games.

Yeah, at this point We don't know what the news is in terms of Nat Ziverbrunt's calf strain or calf tightness. That's not called a strain at this point, calf tightness. And we're going to have to wait and see, but she retired out in 48.

Alex? Yeah, bit of a worry, isn't it? We know that she missed the two series before this World Cup against New Zealand and India with a calf strain. You would think it's just tightness and she's gone, hang on a minute, if I stay out and I run quick steps, singles here, I might make this worse than it is. She walked off, which is a good sign. She didn't ask for anybody, physio or doctors, to come out and have a look at her. She just walked herself off and up the stairs. So we've got to keep our fingers crossed because without Sivabrunt, this team is a lot weaker. You know, she's such a good all-rounder. Yes, she's only playing as a batter, but you know, she has everything, doesn't she?

Right, here's Ebony Rain from Brentwood, the captain.

Interview with the losing captain today, Gabby Lewis. First of all, 118 on the board at the halfway stage. What did you make of it then?

Yeah, we obviously knew that it was under par. We'd ideally like to get, you know, close to 150. But yeah, I mean, that last over obviously helped us. So fair play to the two girls out there, especially Louise Little. But yeah, obviously felt under par, but then after their power play, you're like, oh, what could another 20 runs have done? So yeah, look, overall, proud of the girls.

Going into the next game, what are some of the key things you really want to make sure you put right?

Yeah, I think it's our batting. Um, obviously our power play isn't ideal losing 3 wickets. Um, that's something that we need to rectify. Um, and then just, I guess, that builds us a platform for the girls in the middle to really flourish there. So, um, bowling, I think, really good. Our energy in the field today was brilliant. Um, and yeah, if we can carry those positives forward to Friday, I'll be happy.

Some positives as well. Little, for example, taking 17 off the last few overs. Um, you must see some signs of things that you want to take into the next few games.

Oh, 100%. I think, you know, We just gotta focus on those positives in tournaments like this and keep building, especially with the ball. You know, young Amy Maguire coming in, just so much energy and just wants to learn and learn. And every game that she plays against top nations like England, she's just gonna get better and better.

And just quickly, New Zealand again on this ground. Have you learned a bit about the surface and the conditions?

Yeah, definitely. I think first game under lights as well. So that's different for the girls. Some of the girls might not have even played under lights before. So learning every day and yeah, looking forward to that game on Friday.

Brilliant. Good luck for Friday.

Thank you so much.

Right, time to call over Nat Sciver-Brunt, the captain for England. First of all, 2 from 2, starting all right.

Yeah, yeah, really happy. So 2 very different looking games, but yeah, got over the line, so we're happy.

What are you most pleased with from today's performance?

I think the way the bowlers, I suppose, took the game on. We took wickets throughout the innings as well to really stop any momentum. We knew they had some players that could really take the game away from us, and the surface was really good. The outfield was quick. So yeah, I suppose really wanted to control those areas and did that really well today.

Let's talk about your form. Didn't fancy a 50 or something going on while you retired out?

Yeah, just precautionary. Yeah, felt a bit of tightness in my calf, so thought I better not push it.

Next time, wait 2 more runs. But anyway, I understand. Quickly as well. Going forward, look, we saw today the gate that your group in particular has opened up with that win of Sri Lanka. It must feel like you want to keep the foot on the gas.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we can't take any game lightly really. I suppose we found that in the previous T20 World Cup when it came down to net run rate. So yeah, we'll see. Need to be switched on to those sorts of things. But yeah, hopefully we can keep winning.

Nat, thanks for your time today and good luck resting over the next few days.

Thank you.

Well, we're none the wiser from that, I think it's fair to say. We will find out when we find out, I guess. And she can't really say anything else, can she, Alex? I mean, that's kind of all that she can reveal.

She's not gonna come off and go, "Oh, blow me hamstring." No, of course she's not.

So, you know, but you're trying to read the runes a little bit by sort of trying to work out body language and that thing, that sort of thing. You know, we will, of course, as soon as we get news, we will bring it to you. But it certainly will be a concern for England with their captain retiring out on 48.

Right.

I'm very pleased to say that part of our team here today as well is the former Ireland international coach for the Irish women's side for 5 years. Ed Joyce is here. What did you make of the game? And I suppose from an Irish point of view, there was a pretty decent effort to keep Pluggy away with the ball.

Yeah, great resilience with the ball. 118 on the board wasn't enough runs, and I think it's actually an opportunity missed because if you knew the conditions after the game, you would have chosen to bat first for sure. And I think 140, 150 would have been a really, really hard chase. And that's the disappointing thing for the Irish girls because they showed that they actually could, you know, the sort of slow and straight bowling actually really worked well on the wicket, and England struggled to get up past 118, you know. So You know, a few more runs would have made it really, really interesting. Actually very, very similar to the game that the Ireland team played against England in the 2023 T20 World Cup, where a similar score batting first got up just over 100, and actually England won sort of 5-6 down. And you sort of go, why didn't we just get another 20 or 30 runs? Would have been great. So, but you know, Orla Prendergast and Amy Maguire bowled 8 overs between them, 4 wickets for 40 runs, which is a brilliant effort against a high-quality, uh, team. Amy especially bowling those 2, uh, overs in the powerplay as the second one getting the two wickets, which Alex obviously didn't want her to bowl, but I thought was a great decision by Gabby Lewis. Um, so yeah, some really good decisions from Gabby there. I think she did miss a little bit of a trick with not, not keeping those wicket takers on and trying to put push for the win. The only way Ireland were going to win was by bowling England out. So great resilience shown. The ground fielding excellent, catching good. So real move from the Scotland game in that first one, and that's something they can definitely take forward. Excellent with the ball, I thought, generally. Um, so yeah, really good in the field, uh, which is with the bat they need they need their big players to perform. And Gabby getting out first ball, a dubious decision to play that shot, albeit she did hit it, but it's a dangerous one. And Amy Hunter, I think, would, if she had a time again, would go straight with that instead of going sweep against Lindsay Smith, which is a really, really hard shot. Orla was excellent. And then I thought Louise Little was brilliant with the bat as well towards the end. So there are definite bright spots. Alice Tector again with the ball. So huge bright spots, um, and 3 more games, you know, and all winnable. We've seen, you know, we've seen New Zealand have been beaten twice, and, and, you know, they've played against Sri Lanka and West Indies reasonably recently and had success. So 3 winnable games, and if they play like that in the field and just up it a bit with the bat, they've got a good chance.

Alex, you forget things like, oh yeah, first game under the lights and all those challenges, big crowds, debutants and things. I thought Ireland equipped themselves pretty well.

Yeah, they've improved a lot quickly as well. I think that, that's the thing for me. And when you look down the batters and who got runs. Everybody got starts, but nobody went on. And I think all it takes is, you know, 2 or 3 more players to get another 10 runs, and then, and then you're up around that 140, 150, and then you really are competing with the best teams in the world, especially on a surface like this. So yeah, if 2 or 3 more could have added 8 to 15 runs onto their tally, it would have been a completely different game. Um, but yeah, they've learned quickly from the, the first game against Scotland where they were atrocious in the field, to today where they were so much better.

Just finally, Ed, over sort of arching view on what we've seen across, across the, the day, because earlier on today we also saw a victory for Sri Lanka against New Zealand. We've seen Ireland cause a few headaches for England. We've seen a competition thus far where it feels to me like every single game has had moments where, though most have gone to form, actually it's been quite competitive throughout.

Yes, but there's definitely a bit of jeopardy in every, every game. Each team has more than one or two match winners, which definitely was the case in the end, uh, you know, previously. You know, you look at Sri Lanka there and everyone talks about Chamari Atapatty, but actually she didn't win the game today. It was the middle order who came in and did the job and finished it really well from a position where, you know, being honest, for 3 or 4 years ago they wouldn't have won that game. So that's brilliant to see in the women's game, you know, those teams coming together and actually being very, very competitive. New Zealand obviously be super disciplined. disappointed with how they've played over the two games. Their fielding's been really, really poor. They know that. And then this game here, again, it looked like a bit of a tired pitch, being honest. The ground looks absolutely beautiful, great outfield, but it was a little bit of a tired pitch. But for England, I think, you know, I've spoken a lot about Ireland there. For England, it's not the worst thing to have a game like that early in the tournament, have, you know, almost a perfect game in the first one. Second one comes along, you know, a few hiccups, you know, the middle order have to do the job and get through. The bowling and fielding was excellent.

Right, let's get some more reaction from the England camp. Heather Knight, who played really nicely today, I have to say, 26 off 23, has been speaking to Daniel Norcross.

What pleased you most about today's performance?

I think the 2 points. So I think that's what World Cup cricket is about, isn't it? Probably wasn't the most pretty performance, but yeah, 2 points. I think a little bit of scrappiness out there, but I think actually it'd be quite good for us to get out the system and yeah, just get that calmness and clarity back. But I think, yeah, these are the tricky games, aren't they? And to get over the line when you're expected to win sometimes is the hardest things in World Cup. So happy with the 2 points.

You were hitting those pockets, you were running those 2s, you were scampering back and forth.

It's a big ground, isn't it?

Yeah, boundaries were set quite well. Ireland bowled pretty well, I thought. That's probably bowlers we haven't faced too much of. So it's almost sort of like assessing as you go about things. And yeah, pitch was all right, but like a little bit in it for the bowlers. But yeah, really pleased. Obviously Natty batted brilliantly there. Yeah, she looks in fine touch. So yeah, just delighted to kind of put that partnership together, obviously under pressure and get the bulk of the run chase done. But albeit disappointed. I kicked one and missed a half volley, but those things happen.

I've got to ask you about Nat, because we were just sort of settling in for the game to be over in about 3 balls.

She just whacked it for 4 and then she walked off.

Can you explain what was going on there?

Just a bit of calf tightness. I think precautionary, obviously we're pretty close to getting over the line. So yeah, I think she's being assessed now and that's all I know.

We expect her to be back for the next one against Scotland.

That's all I know, Dan. We'll see.

And the bowlers, because I mean, let's face it, They kept it to 118. Everybody took wickets really. Sophie Ecclestone's going to be player of the match with 3, but a word also for Charlie Dean, 2 for 10, and she apparently caused 36% false shots today, I've been reliably informed.

That's pretty good.

That is a very good stat. Yeah, I thought she bowled nicely. I think she went up and down her pace range quite well. The slow one, she managed to get a little bit of turn, and then obviously that skiddy one that she bowls, the sort of barrel cross seam ball that skids on, makes the ones that turn even more effective. So yeah, I thought she was really smart with how she went about things. And yeah, Yeah, pretty pleased with our bowling performance. Probably let them get a few too many at the end. But yeah, I think pretty happy that you get them out for 118. And yeah, I thought we fielded brilliantly, like our buzz and energy I thought was outstanding. And it's actually really tricky ground to field. I haven't actually played here under lights, so yeah, it's quite tricky. Lights are quite low. There's lots of sort of things going on in the background. So the fact that we held our catches ground fielding was really good. I think that will be a real positive for us moving forward.

I meant to ask about that because it's been really slidey out here.

I've seen two games here where there's been quite a lot of fielding errors in actual fact.

The one we had earlier today with New Zealand and the one they played here a few days ago. So you reckon it's something to do with the actual kind of configuration of this ground, is it?

A little bit, yeah. Like, obviously the lights here are pretty low and yeah, there's reflections off the hotel and stuff like that. But yeah, I think we can be really proud of how we performed in the field tonight. I think it's obviously been an area of focus for us and yeah, we know every time we make a mistake we're going to get a bit of stick. So yeah, really pleased that we had that really well-rounded, just solid performance in field.

All the best. Well played today and good luck for Scotland in a few days' time.

Nice one, thanks, Beth.

Well, that's it for this episode of the TMS Podcast. Test Match Special has every ball of the men's match between England and New Zealand. England leading the Test series by 1 match to nil. That's at the Oval underway each morning at 11 AM with highlights on today at the Test. We've also got the Women's T20 World Cup ongoing. Just search for Test Match Special on YouTube and iPlayer as well where you can head inside the England camp meeting the personalities behind the players. You can watch the likes of Lauren Bell, Lindsay Smith, Heather Knight, and Izzy Wong, with new episodes dropping every Monday. Thank you so much for listening. We'll speak to you next time.

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