Strategic Timeout: Chris Green talks IPL, Brendon McCullum & Shubman Gill

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You can keep up with all things IPL by watching Strategic Timeout in full on the BBC Sport YouTube channel and BBC iPlayer. Oh, we are so back! Welcome along to another episode of Strategic Timeout, the place where we debrief all things IPL 2026. Now it's crunch time, there's a lot of chat about the playoffs and who is going to get those all-important top 4 spots. It quite literally is all to play for, and 2 people who would definitely make my top 4 join me on today's show. Um, He's somebody that I feel like has played in every franchise tournament there is in the world. If you look into his eyes for too long, you might get bowled out. It's Aussie all-rounder Chris Green. And alongside him, if you look into this person's eyes, I reckon all you see is food.

You might be vomit.

And more food. Or in his words, scran. It is traitors finalist and all-round cricket badger, Faraz. What do you think of my intro?

Very good. Nailed it there.

They're getting better though, aren't they? We're 5 episodes in.

Very kind.

It's great to see you both. You've both come back from your travels, two very different travels. Chris, you're fresh from PSL, you went Pakistan, then to Australia, then here. You've come back from a boys' trip in Marbella.

Yep.

So how were your travels?

Much better.

I enjoyed mine, to be fair. It was a nice little rest and relaxation period. Hit the gym a couple times as well, but then got my two-step going as well, got my shoulders going as well.

Bit of a dance in Marbella.

Yeah, it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too— and loads of Hindus were loving me actually as well.

Were they now?

To be honest, I should have just started charging. They were like, oh, can we have a photo?

Can we have a photo?

I was like, yeah, of course, no worries.

I bet they were loving you.

Yeah, I know. There was one, bless them, they were like, oh, do you want a drink? Do you want any vodka? And I was like, did you watch the show, love? Like, I don't drink, I'm Muslim, you know what I mean? But I was like, no, I'm fine, it's no worries. No, no, sit with us. I was like, no, I'm fine. Then my mates were like My mates were like, oh, why didn't you get us any free drinks? And I was like, why would I get you free drinks? Put your hand in your pocket and sort yourself out.

So you were a hit with the girls in Marbella?

Yeah, yeah. But, um, yeah, we'll leave that there.

We'll leave that right there. Chris, it's a joy to have you on. Welcome back to the UK as well. And how was it being out in Pakistan and playing in the PSL?

Yeah, it was good. It was 5 or 6 weeks there. It was my first time I'd been there since 2019, and my 2 stints prior, I'd only done 24-hour stints. So it was when the PSL was all in Dubai, and I was part of that. Sort of first crew in 2018 that went back to Pakistan for the first time since that Sri Lankan terror attack. And, um, yeah, unfortunately we lost the playoffs. So flew in 3 AM, played 7 PM, flew out 3 AM. But this time around we were in Lahore and Karachi, and then yeah, we lost in the playoffs and I flew home for 36 hours before coming to sunny, warm Manchester.

I was going to say, went to pick up your wife, your lovely wife, and then go to pick up some warm clothes because you know Manchester very well, don't you?

I do, I do. So yeah, I got some brownie points, but I was sick the last day in Pakistan during the game, so I took the flu back with me, passed that on to her. So all the hard work I grafted in going back and doing the right thing, I think I lost it all by making her sick.

Hard life being a bloke, isn't it?

Yeah, very hard. Very hard indeed. Man flu law. Man flu.

Oh, don't even get me started. There's no such thing.

So Chris's missus is probably all right because it's not man flu, you know what I mean? But when Chris had it, oh, it's flaky, written off.

It's because men can't deal with illness, can I just say?

No, that's, that's That's out of order.

How was the tournament? How has it been out there? Because I mentioned in the intro, you are somebody who knows the franchise world very well. So how does it compare to the other tournaments you've played in?

Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, it's changed a lot since I've done it because my 3 years I did it at the start were all in Dubai, obviously. So being in Pakistan was cool. Unfortunately, due to, I think, security, there was some issues on the Afghan-Pakistan border and then obviously the fuel crisis. As well going on in the world. We was behind closed doors for the round games, which was hard work. It actually reminded me, I had flashbacks to COVID again, and that was a horrible time. Just, you know, no crowds, no interaction. But then for the playoffs, we had fans and that was really cool. So my team Islamabad finished second. We played Xiaomi in the first playoff and that was Babar Azam's team and that was sellout. And like, it was the biggest crowd cheer I've heard in a long time when we won the toss. And chose to bowl first because obviously they were seeing Bubba walk out and bat very quickly and he got 100. So, um, yeah, the atmosphere was awesome. Uh, we unfortunately lost the next one, but the tournament was good. The people are amazing. And that's the main thing that I like in going from place to place is just immersing myself as much as possible in local cultures wherever I am, understanding, um, I guess everyone has the same sort of passion and dedication and love for the game of cricket, but is brought to it in different ways. So that's what I find fascinating and really cool as well.

Did you get to immerse yourself in any of the culture in Pakistan?

We did. I mean, as much as you can from a lot of the time we were in the hotel, but then we did go out to different restaurants and have local food and whatnot. But, you know, in terms of like local interaction, that was probably one thing that lacked due to security reasons. But the food was one thing that really impressed me.

Was there anything that stood out in particular?

Oh, just the meat. What did we have? We had everything, but just, I don't know, I find the difference between Pakistani food and Indian food, while it seemed like there was more, there was a lot more bones in everything, but the meat that would fall off the bones was so succulent. And you certainly, as a loving meat eater, I absolutely loved it. So yeah, that was the main thing that kind of stood out, but I was happy to try anything and everything as long as it wasn't seafood.

Best way to be.

This is music to your ears though, because you love your food, don't you?

Oh yeah, it can't beat it, can't beat it. So I'm glad Chris enjoyed this Pakistani cuisine as well.

Yeah.

Should we catch up about this year's IPL?

Because— Sounds good.

I mean, we could talk about your franchise experience. No, we could though, Chris, because you're full of great stories, honestly. No, and it's a joy to have you on. But I mean, as with every franchise tournament, it is constantly changing. I mean, the last time we recorded, there was a different team at the top of the table at the time of recording. Gujarat Titans, who have had a late resurgence. Quite a few teams have climbed up that table. A team like Punjab that were dominating have now gone on a run of losses. So for both of you, I know you've been very busy, but is there anything that stuck out to you? Question for both of you. What have you liked the look of in the last week or so, especially we're getting to the playoff spots as well?

Yeah, I think, I think for me, watching yesterday's game, especially when you've got second and third battling it out with the Titans and the Sunrisers, of how the Titans sort of— so they started off quite slow in the power play. I think they're only up 36 off about the first 6 overs, but they didn't throw the wickets away and they kept the wickets and they got to a decent total because the deck was decent. There was a bit in it for the bowlers as well, so they got to one quite rare.

Yeah, we've been talking about how flat the deck is.

Yeah, there was a bit of grass and there's a few cracks as well, which showed because there was a lot of movement at the start, and they got 168 in they said that 160, 170 would be a good score, and they just dispatched the Sunrisers. Like, I think they bowled them out, and they won with 80 runs to spare or something like that. And it was just the fact that Rabada and Siraj sticking to the line, sticking to the lengths. It was sort of just going back to what works. When you hit your lengths, it's so hard to get away, especially when you've got these world-class operators. So it was nice to see something go back in the bowler's favor as well, especially with RCB's game the other day where it went down on the last ball. Yeah, it's good to see that bit of needle and stuff, but it was good to see Bouvi smashing it as well. It was mental. I know, yeah, it was mental. But yeah, I think that's what I really enjoyed the past few days here, the past couple games.

And teams like RCB and Punjab having to watch their backs because you've got teams that are just climbing up that table, they've come out of nowhere, let's be honest. Chris, what about for you? Anyone that stuck out to you?

Hasn't really been, um, individual players. I think what I've enjoyed about it and watching from afar is at the start it was this wham bam thank you ma'am tournament of just batters dispatching everywhere. There's been a little bit of clawback from the bowlers and some key bowlers that have stood out. But, you know, I think in it being such a long tournament to see so many different teams in the mix for qualification at the start, it was like, okay, it's just going to be a 4-horse race or a 3-horse race. Between who gets in there. But now to actually have 5, 6 teams that can get in that qualification race makes it interesting, makes it about who can hold their nerve the best. And, and in tournament cricket, it doesn't matter how— where you finish, as long as you get into that playoff spot, you're in with a chance of winning it. You see teams so often who dominate throughout the tournament, finish first, and don't end up winning it. It's the teams that finish second, third, or fourth and get that like I was sort of alluding to, is, is feedback about what's been working well, where they need to brush up on not peaking their best cricket too early. Everyone talks about momentum, which is this elusive word that no one really knows what it means, but basically is just coming in feeling confident and good about your game rather than, you know, when's our next bad performance happening because we've had so many good ones along the way. So I think what I'm looking forward to is to see who sort of comes into that playoff race with some steam in the engine, flying, playing the best cricket at the back end, which I think is exciting.

Is there such thing as peaking too soon in a tournament?

Yeah, definitely there is, isn't there? Chris hit the nail on the head there, where you really want to time your run, time that form, don't you? Because you can't— you're not going to win the IPL in the first couple weeks, are you?

So yeah, but you can lose it.

Yeah, you're right there.

That's the crazy thing with tournament cricket is you can You can't win it early, but you can lose it. So I think it's, it's in a really interesting phase because it is, there's so many games on and it's so hard to follow. But now to have different options for a finals race, I think is starting to get really exciting.

At the time of recording, 8 teams could theoretically all qualify, which is a bit crazy, isn't it? They could all theoretically qualify for that, for the top 4 spot.

I've already ruled out a few. That's why I said 5 or 6. There's no way Mumbai will be in there.

No, no, no, no, not after the RCB game. There's been a lot of chat on the show about the wicket and the pitches. As an off spinner, would you fancy bowling on that?

No chance. No.

Thank God I'm not there. It reminds me of my first experience at T10 where I had to bowl in the powerplay for 2 of the 3 overs in the powerplay. Thank you, Darren Sammy. I absolutely love you for it. And I just tried to bowl 12 Yorkers and I was like, I'm an off spinner trying to bowl 12 Yorkers. What's going on here. And to watch those guys, some of the world's best, get hit. You know, if you go at 12 and over in the IPL at the start of the tournament or in some venues, you've actually had a good night. Anything at 10 and over, you're a genius bowler. And then you see these freaks who go at 6 and over and you're like, well, what did you have for breakfast? I want the same. Yeah, because it's just normal procedure to go at 15 and over, struggle away, try and take a couple of wickets to make it look a bit better. But teams are scoring over 200 like it's normal.

Well, 200 is not even an average score anymore. It's not enough.

Which is insane. 200, you think, oh, it's not par.

Yeah, they're under par. 20, 30 under par.

That was always a breath of fresh air yesterday when Siraj opened up with a wicket maiden and you're like, what is going on?

What's this sorcery? Yeah.

Chris, I was looking at the list. You've been playing franchise cricket for over 10 years, you know, from the Big Bash and captain there to CPL to Sri Lanka to, you know, the IPL as well. Have you got any favorites?

It's hard. I love them all for different reasons. I like coming to England, but I have a strong bias. I've got an English mum, so I get to see my family and have my family come watch me play. So I love coming here. Obviously, a lot of the time my family come out from Aus to watch as well, because especially Mum, she gets to see family and watch me play cricket. So that's really special. So England has a close place to my heart. The Caribbean's a lot of fun.

You're the second person to come on the show and say this. Can you just tell us what it is, please?

I think again, it's the people. The thing that I was first amazed about by the Caribbean Premier League in particular, and it's, you know, it's— I think it's hashtag the biggest party in sport is what their token term is. And it certainly is on and off the field. But their passion for cricket and almost old-school approach to the game, both as fans and as players, was the thing that blew me out. Because you sort of see Caribbean cricket as this laid-back, you know, cool dudes, which they are. But when it comes to that crunch time in the huddle moment, they're very much down the line, old-school authoritarian way. You know, this is how we do things, this is how it should be done. And the fans are even more direct in the way they they speak to you with their passion and understanding of the game as well. So that was the kind of, not shock, but awakening to their culture. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. I mean, you're island hopping around the Caribbean playing cricket in different places.

Yeah, I was gonna say, it doesn't sound bad.

Who was someone that maybe surprised you coming out like that where you thought they were really laid back and then when it came to it, they sort of put the foot down?

And, um, oh, they're They all do it like that. Even the approach in the warmups, it's sort of quiet, cool, they're strutting their stuff. And then we have the huddle and you get the, right, listen to me, listen to me straight, is what's happening. And Robyn Powe's one that has that cool swagger. He's such a good player, dangerous player. And I really enjoy playing with and underneath Robyn, but he's got that swagger. And then the first thing he says, all right, listen up, fellas. And you're like, okay, I'm listening. I better make sure I'm taking you back to school. And like everyone is drawn to him. He has that natural presence as a leader. As well. But yeah, that was, that was the sort of style of player that you see around the world. He's a dangerous player, he's cool, laid back, but when it comes to crunch time, he's very much switched on and focused on his skills. And it's probably a term that doesn't get a like into West Indian Caribbean superstars that they are, but they're very much, you know, driven and direct, particularly someone like that with a lot of his backstory as well.

But work hard, play hard.

Yeah, a lot of them don't drink. A lot of them don't drink. You know, Dwayne Bravo doesn't drink, and he's probably one of the leaders of the party scene with his singing and dancing. But yeah, a lot of them don't drink. That was another surprise as well. You think it is that work hard, play hard mentality, but yeah, they're very switched on to their cricket, which was cool.

Let's talk about your IPL journey then. It was one year in 2020, probably not how you wanted it to go, Chris, let's be honest, because it was one game. It was during COVID It was not how you imagined your IPL journey to be for Kolkata Knight Riders.

Yeah, it was, you know, end of 2019. I think I played a game in Hobart during the Big Bash and the auction that year was on. My name got called out. I wasn't expecting it. Very, very shocked just because the depth of, I guess, spinner batters there are in that tournament and how tough it is for overseas players to regularly get those positions. And I think like everyone, really excited, looking forward to what 2020 had to offer. And then that COVID curtain came down and the uncertainty was there and it got pushed to rather than that normal window that it's in, in this window currently, it was pushed to after the CPL in— I think it was like it was September, November. Yeah, September, November. Finished the CPL. I thought, wow, this is a great start. Kolkata were flying us in a private jet from the Caribbean to Abu Dhabi. So I was like, the IPL is pretty impressive.

Second person to mention private jet, by the way, as well on this episode, just saying.

So that was a nice, nice start to proceedings. But then as it was in 2020 and 2021, it was just quarantine and COVID tests and no crowds and interaction. And, you know, I think one thing that I was looking forward to was that the madness of and the passion of the game that comes with cricket in India, never mind the IPL in itself. So that was, I guess, probably a big hole for me that lacked in that experience. And something that, you know, I was absolutely over the moon to play, to be around some of the best Indian cricketers for the first time, coaches and the like, and even the resources that they had. Brought over to Abu Dhabi for Kolkata Knight Riders was truly spectacular. And playing in front of these like LED screen fans around the ground, which was, yeah, very, very odd. But like they, you know, it gets on your nerves eventually. You've got the noises that you hear through the TV, like the trumpet and the music and whatever pumping out at games, thinking it would help us. And we're there with empty stadiums just getting headaches, especially when you're not playing. When you're playing, you kind of don't notice it, but when you're not playing, you notice every bit of it. So yeah, it was a sort of roller coaster experience. I was very grateful that I got it. But yeah, still lacking that IPL in India experience, which would be really cool.

You still itching for that?

Itching. Yeah, itching. So I've got to keep trying to perform and hope I get lucky one year in that auction. But if not, it's just, you know, keep trying to tick away and play elsewhere as much as possible.

You know, going back on that, during the behind-the-closed-doors games, how hard was it to sort of psych yourself up for them games? Or was there something that in particular you do to psych yourself up for them?

Yeah, I think, you know, then and even now recently in Pakistan, it's— it— you feel like you're exerting a lot more energy than what you're used to because of the adrenaline. And I guess again, the energy that you vibe off from the crowd and interaction and having that aura or feeling or whatever it is. You know, here in England, it's the singing the songs, everyone, you know, the music cuts out, everyone's singing and up. Whether, and being Australian in particular, you get abused a lot by the English crowd, but it makes it part of it. It makes it easy to get up for and it sort of feeds your energy tank, if that makes makes sense. When there's no crowds there, it just feels like you're, you know, you can hear everything, but you're just there, and the day feels longer, the game feels longer. Your highs and lows are sort of drawn out for longer periods of time as well. Like, you remember your highs when you're in that crowd spectacle a lot more. They're a lot more memorable is what I guess I'm trying to say. And then when you're in the lows of no crowd, you remember those a lot more as well because you're there thinking about it. You've got no distractions. You're just in the outfield going, why did I do that? Or how could I have done that? So yeah, it is a more draining experience just because for me personally, I feed off that, that crowd atmosphere and to sort of pump the adrenaline. So it's just trying to get into the heat of the battle and hopefully the ball comes to you a lot in the field. If it doesn't, it does feel like, what's going on here? Yeah.

Just thinking about those players that you would have encountered at Kolkata, but also you said the CPL was one of your favourite leagues. You would have played with players from across the world, Chris. So are there ones that stand out for you or ones that you've perhaps stayed friends with or you've got something from whilst you played with them?

Yeah, I try and pick up something along the way wherever I go. I think my first ever tournament Overseas was the PSL in 2017 when it was in Dubai. And I remember going down to breakfast. So it was like the first time I flew in business class, first time I was staying in this fancy hotel, go down to breakfast in the morning, still jet lagged. And, you know, I'd played with Shane Watson that season, so I knew him. We were sitting together in this like booth and then in comes Brendon McCullum, then Kumar Sangakkara, then Kevin Peterson.

Just a few.

Mahela Jayawardena. And I'm like, this is, this is getting out of hand. So I remember just sitting there, just listening. I didn't really say much. I remember going straight back up to my room and calling my dad, and then my mum joined the call as well. And I was like, I've got off in the wrong spot. You know, all these heroes of mine, the guys that, you know, I sat on the couch as a youngster watching, listening to my dad say, you know, if you're going to play cricket, these are the sort of players you're going to watch. All of a sudden you fast forward to 2017, there I am sitting in this hotel breakfast area with some of my cricketing heroes and guys that I just admired. So like, I felt like it might— that particularly at the early stages of my career in traveling and, and those types of players at the back end of theirs traveling around the world and trying to just pick up bits and pieces from their 10, 15, 20-year journeys of what they did, what made them successful. As my journey was sort of starting out, just trying to apply that 1 or 2%, well, at the time I felt like it was 1,000%, but learning it's only, you just need that little 1% or that conversation I had in 2017, could it apply to tomorrow in some way? Or trying to sort of fast-track a little bit my development along the way. So that was, you know, crazy start and something that I do try and do, um, you know, from a leadership perspective. I've been lucky to play underneath the likes of Brendan McCullum, Owen Morgan, Mike Hussey, who have really shaped my leadership sort of style. And, and watching, you know, arguably three of the, the best leaders in, in their right, along with many others, but just, you know, trying to pick up bits and pieces from different players that have done so much in the game along the way has been a key goal of mine, especially in tournaments where I wasn't playing and during the IPL where I wasn't playing. We were lucky we had Dinesh Karthik. It was obviously Brendan McCullum's first big gig as coach. I think he was meant to be mentor and took over as coach. I can't remember who from. Owen Morgan came in and, you know, Dinesh and Owen both captained that year. So seeing their leadership styles and Brendon's coaching style come in, I learned a lot playing with youngsters like— well, he was young, he was the up-and-comer then, it was Shubman Gill.

Oh wow, look at him now.

Yeah, look at him now. And, you know, just watching him go through that tournament scoring 50s for fun in 2020 and now to become the captain he is and the world dominator that he is and You know, I still— we still send each other a few cheeky messages, probably more me sending him messages than him sending me. But we spent a lot of the time in the gym together competing. And then two other young guys that were in his under-19s team were Nagarkoti and Shivamavi, who are still, you know, doing really well. And then probably the best friendship that came out of that year, or two or three of the best friendships that I had out of that year, were Kuldeep Yadav, Rinku Singh and Nitish Rana. There were 3 guys that, I don't know whether we just caused a lot of trouble off the field in that time, but I spent— end up spending a lot of time with them. So yeah, I had a great experience. And like I said, just everywhere I go, I try and pick up, whether it just be a friendship or a relationship or something that I can keep— make it memorable, but then hopefully learn 1 or 2 things along the way as well.

We've got to know a bit more about that trouble, don't we?

Yeah, there's not much we could do, it was in a COVID bubble. If we left, we would have got arrested. So we didn't go to jail and that's the main thing. But no, they're really good guys and just good people. And I ended up making my debut for Australia and Rinku was in the opposition. I think I watched him hit 4 or 5 sixes in 8 balls at the end. So it was sort of at the launch of his phase of his career and at that time as well. So that was really cool to connect with him after the game and see him again. And luckily I didn't have to bowl to him, which was great.

And you know, touching on obviously the caliber of players that you were surrounded with and things, and you try to pick things up from them all, what was sort of one thing that you've picked up from them that's most vital to you in your game?

That's a good question. I don't think I've ever been asked that. I think my learnings from all of it and a lot of the guys that sort of go through it and even anything that, that I pass on now is those guys were really, really authentic and to themselves and their own game and the huge amount of trust they have in their ability and their skill set and what they've been able to develop. You know, I think at the early stages of my career and even, you know, at times recently, you're constantly doubting whether you're good enough, whether what you do is good enough. And you're faced in these different scenarios in different conditions all around the world. And I think the guys who are ultimately the most successful is they have that trust in their ability no matter what. And they're, you know, they, they do make small adjustments based on conditions, but they stay true to themselves. They trust their game. And at the end of the day, they, they're very comfortable and happy to to wake up. If they fail, wake up the next day and back it in again and again. And, you know, they, they kind of know more, more times than not, if they do that, they will be successful at the end of the day. So that's like my summation of it all, rather than going through each little, little bit. But that's, that's the main thing that I guess I'm trying to do now as I go tournament to tournament or country to country, trying to bring the best version of myself every day and hope I get lucky.

Yeah, well, it's a nice message out though, just about backing yourself because you've got there for a reason, haven't you? So just about, yeah, instilling that nice, nice—

yeah.

You mentioned 3 names, Chris, um, Mike Hussey, Brendan McCollum, and Owen Morgan. 3 very different characters there, um, but I wonder how they've shaped how you've become as a leader. And I'm kind of asking what kind of captain you are.

Yeah, I think like Mike, Mike was my first captain at the Sydney Thunder. You know, long story short, I was a kid who moved over from South Africa to Australia in 2001, idolizing Jacques Kallis. He was my cricketing hero. Fast forward to 2014 where I get my first call about being a professional cricketer, getting the last contract in the Sydney Thunder, knowing that Jacques Kallis was going to be the overseas player.

That must have been surreal.

That was scary stuff. The other person on that team that I knew was Mike Hussey, and he was my Australian hero, if you like. I had my childhood hero, cricketing hero, and he still is in Jack Callis. But in moving over to Australia, a guy that I admired and loved watching play was Mike Hussey. It just seemed, you know, they called him Mr. Cricket, but he just seemed to always just compete, try his best, looked like a good team man and you know, play the game the right way, if you like. And upon meeting him and playing with him, it was just exemplified that he just is that type of person. He's ultra competitive internally, which I related to, and sometimes mine's externally rather than just internally. And I know everyone, everyone has that, but he always wanted to do well, wanted to win, wanted to fight. But externally, he was just a really good guy, really caring, really you know, aware of his environment and being incredibly inclusive as a leader and empowering or making everyone feel empowered that they had a voice within the team, not just the most experienced or the nicest guys or the coolest guys or whoever it may be. He found a way to give everyone in that dressing room a voice. And it's, it's something that I try and emulate. It's not easy, but I think, again, it comes back to just being authentic and going, well, if I— how do I bring the best version of me is I've got to, you know, ensure as a captain that everyone feels a part of the team, everyone feels like they're heading in the same direction. And that was what I learned from him. And, you know, he became a sort of mentor, if you like. And I played underneath his coaching for the first time at the Welsh Fire last year, which was great fun to reconnect and relive some old memories that we had from playing with each other. But even when I've captained in Guyana, he was the first guy I picked the phone up to and said, you know, I've been told I'm captaining tomorrow. It's kind of thrust on me. I didn't expect it. This is my— I shouldn't be captaining tomorrow, but I am. I've been told I have to do it. What do you reckon? He's the one thing that stuck by me, and a lot of the other guys sort of say the same in a very different way, as he said, you'll never regret a gut— going with your gut. You know, very often you have a conversation like the three of us. I'll ask you what you think. I'll ask you what you think. You tell me. My gut will say, you know, the sky's blue. You say it's red. You say it's green. I go, fine, I'll go with red. I wake up tomorrow and it's like, I knew it was blue, and I don't sleep. And if I'd gone with my gut feel, even though, you know, it was right or wrong, I can learn from that and live with that a lot better. So that was one thing I learned from Mike. And, you know, Owen was a kind of guy who in high-pressure scenarios, he always just looks so calm and level. Doesn't matter what. Never showed, you know, sort of emotion in those moments either way. And I remember in the IPL, I eventually plucked up the courage after playing with him as well at the Thunder. I was like, do you practice this? Do you actually practice being so calm and collected? And he said one of the tricks he used to do was ensure that when the bowler or the fast bowler or spinner was, you know, under pressure or the ball was traveling, is he would hold the ball. And rather than if you were holding the ball and I was asking you what you want or what you're thinking, he would hold the ball. So, and then ask the question so that you're directly engaged in here rather than sort of scattered that way. So he, there was elements of, you know, purposeful mechanisms to his leadership that he did, which I found really interesting, but The thing that impressed me most with him was just his levelness. And, you know, you saw the success that English white ball team had under him, the trust and faith they all had for him and the backing he had of his team was amazing. And then, you know, McCullum had this— I don't know, he has this like aura about him. And I think he's done it in a way with Stokes. And I think Stokes from the outside in has it as well, is like, come with me. I'm going to do the hard work. I'm going to make it. It will look ugly at times. It's going to look awesome at times. But I'm really going to take charge and lead from the front and I'm going to drag, drag you all with me along for the ride. I'm going to do some of the heavy lifting. And those were a lot of my observations of Baz in his style. That was like, all right, well, you know, in the nitty-gritty, the captain has to put his neck on the line and, and make a stance and make a change in the game. And, you know, at times it's not going to look pretty. But you've got to, you've got to be willing to, you know, live and die by the sword a little bit as well. So, um, yeah, 3 different styles, also different to me. Um, I think, you know, I like— I'm someone who's highly competitive, tries to remain as calm as possible in the moment. I think bowling offspin in T20 cricket helps me with that, and you have to be highly competitive you have to try and find a way to get— be calm because you're constantly— batters are just trying to slog you out of the park every ball because you're not a big threat to them. Can't bowl bouncers, you know, bowl quick. I don't have an element of mystery. It's just a little bit of nous, game nous that you try and apply. And I think that stems into areas of the leadership that I try and bring into the game when I do get that opportunity is to be super competitive. Calm and then, you know, play the game as hard as I can with a smile on my face. And hopefully we can have fun out there. And yeah, whether that typifies those three and a bit of me, that's kind of like the leadership journey and style that I'm still learning and evolving along the way.

They're not three— that's not a bad three unofficial mentors to have. Do you know what I mean?

Not the worst more than a bit to have. No, it's not though.

Because it sounds like you treat them like unofficial mentors. I mean, I know you picked up the phone to Mike Hussey, but Sounds like you've learned a lot from all three of them. Do you enjoy being captain, Chris?

I do. I do. I think it's something that does come naturally to me. Again, whether it's through the role that I play, but I do try and lead by example, lead from the front and impact the game. And I guess when I think about it, yeah, I do enjoy it. Sometimes it gets busier as a captain and I think areas that I know that I need to improve on is when it comes to me last minute, which does in the T20 world overseas, about empowering others and not trying to, you know, carry the burden all by myself. And I think a lot of captains and people will talk about captaincy being a very lonely place at times, both on and off the field. And I think my learnings is sort of in that leadership style. And it's so hard to do, but actually letting a lot of the control go and empowering people around you to pick that up and finding out the right player or players and also coaches to work together as a group and be a sort of collaborative style. I certainly don't like to be, you know, it's my way or the highway. This is how we're going to do it. I'm going to take charge and come follow me. I'm going to do selections and everything like that. I think it's— that's too busy. I much prefer a collaborative style approach. So, um, yeah, in the right environment it's been great fun. In the wrong environments, I've learned a hell of a lot about myself and, and my journey. So it's the same as winning and losing. You— when you're winning, you're having fun. When you're losing, you've got to— you, you get that feedback and you learn, you learn so much more.

You know, as a captain, has there been ever a couple moments So one moment maybe where you've really sort of struggled in here and you're sort of in, in the pits of it. And then on the flip side of that, where you've really thought, I've done well there, I've done a good job there.

I guess you get that, that feedback, you get that, that feeling internally of, of whether it's doubt or that gut churning in game. And that's probably what I was alluding to earlier. There's so many moments within a game that you're kind of educated guessing as to how it will pan out based on the opposition, based on the preparation, based on the conditions. And you have these feelings of you're like, you know, I think, I think this is what we should do. And you've obviously got to be a lot more committed and believable in, in that style and say, right, this is what we're going to do. But then when you walk away from that conversation, whether it be with the team or a bowler or a batter, you think, okay, I hope that was right. Or, you know, and then you wait for the feedback from the game to go whether you were right or wrong. And again, when I've gone with my gut, I've learned a lot more than not going with it because you have sleepless nights when you had that gut feel and it went the way my gut was saying. But I listened to someone who's played 500 games like I should have done. You know, you listen to someone that you actually should be listening to, they provide, whether they're— it's their gut feel or whatever, it doesn't go that way and it goes where your gut was, whether you didn't voice it or not, and you just lose so much sleep over it. So yeah, that's the joys of captaining and in, in the T20 game where you just have this topsy-turvy roller coaster journey of, yeah, feedback and, and guesstimations that you hope pay off.

Right, Chris, bear with us, but we have a little something for you. It's something that we started on the show last week with Mark Wood. We've got an Indian sweet treat.

Now, I like it.

Stick with me. The sweet treat is basically a metaphor for runs, big scores, and essentially, is it too much of a good thing? I'll be honest, we just wanted to have a sweet treat on the show. It's a very, it's a very loose link.

Yeah. However, guarded by the glove.

Yeah, these are jalebis.

Yep.

They're just sugar, pure sugar, but they look like this. They are insane.

What actually, isn't it just sugar and oil and fried?

Sugar, sugar syrup, flour.

Yeah.

And they're deep fried and then—

and runts.

But someone's going to tell me in the YouTube comments.

Full of runts.

Yeah, full of runts. These will get you.

I should have come on a week earlier. We need it on the snake pit at Old Trafford for the 4-day.

We know you're an absolute athlete, but would you like one?

Yeah, I definitely have to try one now.

Okay, here you go.

If I don't try one, I'll get a duck.

You're not going to Marbella anymore, will you have one?

No, I'm not having one. I'm not having one. I'm going to Mykonos in August.

Surely not.

Fingers crossed for another gym holiday.

Surely not.

I'll give it a go.

I hope someone needs to rinse him in the comments. I'll have yours then. And let us know what you think, Chris. This is essentially, um, is it too much of a good thing? This is a metaphor for runs.

Is it too much of a good thing?

And the boundaries— sorry, I'm talking with my mouth full.

You're all mates here.

Yeah, we are. It's fine.

That's good.

It's good in it, really.

It's sweet. You couldn't have a lot of them. Well, I mean, it depends who are you. Could, but I don't usually have a sweet tooth, but that's really nice.

Tell us what your dad does.

So my dad substitutes cereal for them in warm milk, and to be honest, it sounds really nice.

It's a really good combination though.

Yeah, it's very good. And then he got my sister onto it but she added it into her cereal as well. So yeah, so she was fueled.

How many would you put in like a bowl of cereal?

You'd have to ask my dad, to be honest. I think—

I think you take the whole box, take that home.

To be honest, I actually might, you know.

Thoughts? Had you had that when you've been on your travels before? Have you had—

I think I have tried that before.

Big in Pakistan as well.

Yeah, yeah. I think I may have had that when I was in India for my debut tour. I just remember having something sweet like that. It was really nice. Cup of tea.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Next time.

Yeah, next time.

We haven't got much time left, but it's been a joy to have you on. Somer, we're going to see you here in Manchester up until July. Is that right?

Yeah, I'm here. I came early. Jimmy rang me in Pakistan saying, can you come early? Or he messaged me, didn't ring me, saying, if you're keen, we'd love to have you early for these 2, 4 days and it's not a man it's easy to say no to. Yeah. Especially when I love playing for Langs. So I play these two 4-days before the Blast, play the full Blast, and I think there's two 4-days in the Blast. So I'm here till the 20th of July, hopefully after finals day. I jet off to the Caribbean. So yeah, the so-called half summer I'll be here for.

Oh no, it'll be amazing. And quickly before you go, we always get people's predictions. We are very close to the playoffs now. You said you've already got 5 teams in mind.

Yeah.

Who do you think is going to take the title this year?

So I think the top 4 will be Sunrisers, Gujarat, RCB, and Punjab. And I don't know in what order. I don't— I'm not going to guess that. I think the team that will win the IPL, I don't think RCB will do it. I think Phil Salt's a big loss. I think it'll be— I actually like the Sunrisers. I think either Sunrisers— I think it'll be Sunrisers-Punjab final. Gujarat will be in the top 2 playoff and lose both. And I reckon, yeah, Sunrisers-Punjab final. And I think the Sunrisers get over the line.

Okay. I think Chris is the first player to say Sunrisers.

Yeah, he is. Yeah.

Yeah. You still sticking with your predictions? You can't change yours actually.

Well, at the start, at the start of this series I said Mumbai Indians.

That's what I'm saying, you can't change yours.

But then I changed to RCB, didn't I?

I guess we call it glory hunting.

If I can't change, then I'll, then to be fair, you're spot on there. Like, you're a glory hunter. Yeah, if I can't change, I'll stick with RCB. I'll be happy with that.

Yeah, if Phil Salt gets back there, I like, I like your prediction, but I think he's a big loss.

No, for us, Chris, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on Strategic Timeout. That's all we've got time for. I'm about to go for a sugar rush because we've got Jalebis in front of us. We'll see you next next week for another episode. BBC Women's Football Weekly, the latest news, insights, and analysis from across the women's game.

Dame Serena Viegman, welcome to the— are we including Dame in your title now?

You know how much an honor that is.

And this remarkable team, under this remarkable woman, will want to play in a way that They can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do.

Win the World Cup, it's a dream.

Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.