Strategic Timeout: Sooryavanshi Continues to Stun the IPL

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Hey there, this is Thomas Germain, co-host of The Interface, the show that decodes how technology is rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, Apple CEO is resigning, and we'll look at what that means for the future of smartphones. We'll talk about whether your latest favorite band is actually a secret marketing ploy and how the AI data center boom has finally met its Match public backlash. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can keep up with all things IPL by watching Strategic Timeout in full on the BBC Sport YouTube channel and BBC iPlayer.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Well, it's been a while. Welcome back to Strategic Timeout, the show where we chat all things IPL 2024. 26. From the shots to the stories, every week we're joined by a couple of guests to unpick all of the action. And I'm so pleased to say this week I'm joined by former England all-rounder and somebody who knows the franchise world very well, Samit Patel. And of course, traitors legend, who by the way has got a new wardrobe for us.

I had to change it up, didn't I? My dad was giving me some stick for hoodies, so I thought I'll come in looking a bit more professional.

We're so used to seeing you in a hoodie. I know, I do like the quarter zip. I said you just come back from your corporate job.

Oh, you can't be doing that. I'm feeling quite casual. I've got the baggy jeans on as well, do you know what I mean?

No, seriously, it's great to see you both. We've had a couple of weeks off, a lot has happened. So tell me, what have we liked the look of? We're very much into the tournament now, a good few weeks in. Samit, what have you enjoyed?

Well, that young, young boy, 14-year-old, not 14 anymore, but Veibai Srivanshi, what a player. We've seen him grow from last year, even better now. We had a great Under-19 World Cup, that match winning NARC in the final, and he's just kicked on nicely in this start of the IPL. And to get 100 and come out and play Bumrah the way he did, it's been fantastic.

The numbers are ridiculous. 246 runs in 6 innings, and he's 15 years old. The 78 off 26 balls against RCB as well.

Unreal. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I think like to be that age. And I can't think, when I was 15, I couldn't hit the ball from the 30-yard circle and he's clearing bummer and all sorts. It's ridiculous. And just like the way he plays, the confidence, the fearlessness. I think, to be honest, I think India should be having him in the squad, in the T20 squad, very soon.

I was going to say, future India talent.

Absolutely. I'd be surprised if they didn't add him around the squad in short format cricket, T20 and 50 overs. I'm not sure he'll start in the 50-over team, but to get him in and around, get him feeling his way of international cricket, I think it's a great idea.

Yeah, because he's clearly not— he's clearly got that fearlessness and he sort of knows his way around, especially playing with big players in the IPL anyway. You can tell he backs himself, as he should, so I think he'll just fit in straight away.

It's quite scary because he's not even in his prime. It's really scary.

When's his prime? 17?

It can only get worse from here, can't it?

Who else have we liked the look of? Because it's very much been a batting game and we'll get on to that. But we were talking about Abhishek off air, weren't we?

No, Abhishek is one player that stands out for me and Sandru Sampson. That India pair, fireworks. They don't hold back. It's all action, to be honest. And it's great to see. It's great entertainment. Wickets are good. Bats are good. Bowlers not so good.

Okay, so let's talk bowling.

See, going on the bowlers, I think like you've got Joffre Archer. Joffre Archer's been doing not too shabby, I think, taking fair few wickets from his first deliveries and stuff. That raw pace is decent, but T20, especially the IPL, is a batsman's game, innit? 100%. So I think it is harder for bowlers to sort of maintain that.

It is, but there's also got to be a little bit of skill work going on towards bowlers, and I'm sure they do. But for me, it kind of— they've kind of accepted that 10 and over on flat pitches, small boundaries, is kind of acceptable. Now, I'm pretty old school, so I'm going to say it's not acceptable. We'll try and— being brought up at Trent Bridge, I'd probably accept to go at 7s and 8s, but I wouldn't say 10s, because if you accept 10s, then you're going to go at more. So it just depends on where you're going to set the bar, and I reckon setting the bar lower, and time to time you will disappear, but from just have a little bit more self-pride.

It feels like though, if you're not getting 180, 200, you're not in the game. And the thing is, teams are just chasing that down with such ease.

Yeah, 100%. And do you not think, like, obviously from when you were playing back in the day, it's changed a bit, like T20 cricket sort of, for to now? Do you not think it is a bit harder for bowlers to sort of keep to that 7-8 range?

Absolutely. But also what I have seen is, for start, the middle, and the— and now this bit, it is— it's difficult for bowlers. I definitely give that. And the boundaries are so small in India. And don't forget, you've got the whole world that are playing.

Yeah.

And you've got the best of the best playing, and you get 4 overseas, and then you get 7 Indians that are locals, and the standard is fantastic. So yeah, it's getting tougher for bowlers for sure.

Somebody we spoke about in our first episode was Cameron Green because there was a hefty price tag attached to him, but that doesn't seem to be adding up at the moment. He's not really having the tournament that he probably imagined.

He's not. I presume he's feeling the pinch with the price tag and expectation from KKR having been successful. Going for a likes of Cameron Green to balance the team with ball and bat, it's not kind of worked. But you know, cricket doesn't always want to go the way you want it to go, and that kind of can happen.

Yeah, 100%. I think it is sort of when you're an all-rounder, you have sort of got it's sort of a cursed chalice sort of thing because you can do both, but then if you're not performing one, you have to do it with the other sort of thing. But I feel as if— now we've spoke about this before as well— I feel as if the all-rounders, especially in that format, mate, you've gone and you want to sort of rely on your specialists. You want your batsmen to score runs, you want your bowlers to take your wickets, and you want to get the best of the best you can in that regard.

I don't think keepers get enough credit, and we have to talk about the stumping. Have you seen it?

That was ridiculous, that, by the way.

Can I tell you how many times I've watched it? We're talking about Dhruv Jabeel and stumping, unfortunately, Cameron Green, which was— it was so unlucky. But the off-balance, the agility— I had to rewatch it. How has he caught that?

Even just to take— even the take, because it was that far down leg side.

Yeah.

And then to actually hit the stumps as well, off balance. Because I used to keep, and if you take, like, you take one down leg side, you're buzzing. Or you take a leg side stumping, like, you've really won the World Cup. But to do it the way he's done it, basically a cartwheel afterwards—

I think it might be the best stumping I've seen.

Oh, absolutely. You look back to MSD, that stumping, but I think this one just tops it because the pace that was bowled at down the leg side, it was miles down the leg side. And then like you said, the agility to get it back to hit the stumps is phenomenal really.

There have been some exciting moments, but does it feel like it's just been a bit predictable? Does it feel like, dare I say, the IPL has been a bit flat, pun intended, for this year? Does it feel like that for you, that we kind of know that teams are going to hit 180, 200, 210, whatever it is, and they— because the tracks are so flat, they're able to get it.

I think some— I think sometimes you've hit the nail on the head there. When you're sort of getting 180s, 190s, and even that score's nowhere near, you've got really no needle in the game. When you're getting like 220, 230, I feel as if them lower scoring games do sort of add to the intenseness of the game. And obviously the schedule's massive as well. When you've got so many games to follow and keep up, it can be quite hard, to be fair. Especially not being in India when it's here. You've got so much cricket to watch. I think it is quite hard.

Absolutely. I always go back to the boundary sizes in India because they're so small. The wickets are so good, but the bats are so good. Yeah. So I always say the best bats stay in India. All the Indian boys get the best bats, and the ball flies. So it's a difficult one, as I said before, but the skill levels are high. The batsmanship, the practice, people don't see what goes on behind the scenes and the way they practice is they do practice hitting sixes at practice and it goes miles and that's what people don't get to see. So there's a lot of skill.

You must have a fair few bats.

I've got enough, yeah.

Have you?

Fancy lending me one?

I might have one.

I think that's yours. Yours might be a bit too heavy for me to be fair.

No, they're not. They're good. They're good. They're not as, uh, As you get older, you have to take a bit off.

Yeah, fair enough. Not too bad.

The reason I say that though is because you have got so much franchise cricket experience. How many tournaments have you played in? How many shirts have you got at home?

I reckon about 18, 19 shirts.

And what is it like to be behind the scenes of a franchise tournament?

It's great. From the likes of the IPL to the ILT20 to the CPL to the PSL. Canada GT20, you've got NCL, you've got Lanka Premier League, you've got Bangladesh Premier League.

I didn't realize there were so many.

Yeah, no, you don't.

Honestly, I've missed a load as well. So Big Bash is just—

Oh, just missed the Big Bash.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What attracts you to the tournaments?

My favorite one is the CPL. I just love the lifestyle, the laid-back nature of the CPL boys. They have fun. It's called the party. Party comp.

Yeah, get the hips moving whilst you're there.

Yeah, we do a bit of that in the evening, I reckon, that fuzz. On the beach, drinking some rum. So yeah, it's good. It's a great comp. Some good players and good franchises, like you said, mostly owned by IPL owners. And owners around the world have been great, especially to me, and I've been very fortunate.

What is it that we don't see in terms of franchise tournaments? Because we see, you know, the big hitters, we see all the action and the celebrations. But what is it that we don't see? You spoke there about the training and it is very much on boundary hitting. But what else don't we see?

We probably don't see what goes on behind the scenes on strategic stuff, picking players, who not to pick, what do we need, what retentions have we got, what fits the bill, who's in form. Who's not in form, who's injured, what jigsaws, what pieces do we need? And that's the stuff that you don't really get to see. The one thing I will say is that the training beforehand, if you only play T20 cricket in England and then you fly off to go and play, there is an expectation to perform because you are affiliated to the franchise, but then you're expected to perform and there is a responsibility that you help the youngsters along the way with the franchise. So at training, it's not so much it's just you, it's about everybody else and how we grow as a team and as a squad and how we can move the franchise forward and what do we need. So it's not just we rock up and play and then we go home. It's a little bit more to it than stuff like that.

As a senior player, sort of to come in as a coach and sort of nurture the young talent. Absolutely.

All right. Yeah.

You said the CPL is your favourite. I'll put you on the spot here, but how would you rank the ones that you've been in? If I could say, give us your top 5.

CPL being one.

Yeah.

I like The Hundred.

Okay.

I like the Big Bash. I love PSL.

Yeah.

I had a great—

And you won the title, didn't you, as well?

I've won it 3 times, yeah. Helped. Twice with Lahore. Just twice. Twice with Lahore and once with Islamabad. Listen, I love PSL. It's a great standard. Fanatics about cricket. Yeah, look, Sri Lanka was another one, LPL, where cricket's huge and cricket's loved. So yeah, it's— they're my top 5.

You're somebody who's been in the game and you'll have seen it develop. So things like The Hundred have come in, the rise of T20, the rise of franchise cricket as well. How do players balance that then, you know, if they're playing domestic cricket, if they're playing for their country, but also you've got these opportunities of franchise coming in. So how do you balance that as a player? And you're quite traditional.

Yeah, and what sort of tips and tricks would you give to youngsters trying to balance that as well?

Well, the first tip I'll give is that don't give up red ball cricket because especially for a batsman, red ball cricket, if you're ever out of nick, If you don't have the fundamental batting skills, if you're out of nick, it will take you so long to get it in nick if you don't have the skills. And red ball cricket always brings you back to basics. White ball cricket doesn't. So if you go as a specialist and say you want to go and play T20 only and you're out of nick, there'll only be a couple of franchises, teams will go, if you're out of nick, then we're not going to pick you. And then it will take time and then you miss a comp and then the word gets round saying you're not in nick and then it just starts, the process is longer. But if you play red ball cricket, you're always hitting balls. And I always say that the best batters in the world and the best players in the world have played every format of the game. Chris Gayle has played Test cricket and has got a 300.

He's one of your favourites, isn't he, Faz?

Yeah, he's one of my favourites as well. Chris Gayle, AB de Villiers, Sachin, Ricky Ponting.

All the GOATs.

All the GOATs have always played Test cricket. And I'll always go back to that, is that you must play Test cricket. You mustn't give up red ball cricket until it gets to a point where your body won't let you.

Yeah.

Then start to slow down and play some formats of the game. But up until then, because I've got a love for cricket and passion, I would always play all three formats. I'd never stop.

And then what other sort of tips, or would you just base it on the fundamentals of red ball cricket and then you build from there?

Absolutely, fundamentals of red ball cricket, because if you can't— I know I'm going on to try and be a coach here, but if you can't keep the good ball out, yeah, yeah, you might as well not bother because you won't be batting for very long. Yeah, so I just see it as simple as that.

You mentioned some players there. And I'm trying my hardest to get some stories out of you, but who are some of those players that you've played with that you've perhaps learned something from or you've taken something in the changing room or, you know, something you've taken something from them?

What I did take from Ricky Ponting was, if you don't believe in yourself, then nobody else will. And that's a very Aussie mentality. But belief is a big thing for me. And what I do see in youngsters now is that they sometimes lack it. Yeah, the old school generation, because it was only just— there wasn't much franchise cricket, so we just had to play the longer formats. We built and built and built some muscle membrane. So, but now it's, uh, it's a massive thing, it's belief, backing yourself.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And you know, when you're talking about when you're possibly out of nick and stuff, when you've felt yourself be out of nick at times, how have you sort of brought that out and then go back into form?

It was just playing by hitting balls for me. Yeah. Hitting balls, steady bases, make sure I'm balanced. And balance is a big thing for me. It's a big part of my game is balance and timing as a batsman.

So just getting the reps in.

Getting the reps in, yeah.

We've spoken about the IPL being a bit flat this year in terms of predictable. We can't undermine the skill set, but what do the tournament, what do the owners need to do in years to come to make sure that it still continues to grow and it's not just a batter's game, it's not just predictable every year? What do you think they need to do?

It's a good question. Maybe stick in an emerging player.

Okay. Okay.

Have an emerging player. You've got to be, you've got to pick one player that's under the age of 18 and it just levels up the playing field a little bit.

Okay. So like a kind of underrated, under the radar.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

Then you might find a lot of— Ivan Csizor. Sorry, Ivan Csizor.

Yeah, absolutely. We have 13-year-olds knocking off his record, which is quite sad. I know, yeah.

Have a great Eames team.

Yeah.

In terms of this year then, we've got Punjab who are undefeated at the moment. Obviously, RCB hold the title. How do we think it's going to go? Are there any teams going to creep up the table that are going to surprise us? Because I know your team is Mumbai.

That's at the bottom at the minute, Mumbai. Mrs. Ambani won't be too happy, I'm sure she won't. Who I think, Kings XI and I do have a relation too.

Oh God, I hope so.

It could be Kings XI's year this year. I hope so.

They're playing so well.

But I would never write off Delhi.

Yeah.

The Delhi team are in good shape. RCB and boys, never know.

They always seem to show up.

I'd never write off Andy Flower if I were you. No, no, no. Very rarely does he go from a competition and not take the trophy away from somebody.

Yeah.

Shrewd man, is Flower. Yeah.

Sounds like a story there. Yeah.

No. Vaz, what about for you? Remind us, who was your prediction?

Yeah, so I said Mumbai Indians, din naan.

Oh, it's not going well for you. Or not change it.

Yeah, not going too well. But to be fair, RCB— I was gonna say RCB, I think is a good show. I think they could creep up there, uh, just with the power of God. Obviously Andy Flower at the helm, you can't really go wrong, to be fair.

2 years in a row. What is it about Punjab that they're dominating so much? They've won all of their games so far.

They've got the skipper that's leading from the front, Shreyas playing nicely, calm head, nice coach. They looks like they've got the nice balance, and Kings have never had that. But they found some form last year, they got to the final. I think it could be Kingsley's this year.

I hope so. It was just devastating last year. I was happy for RCB, but Punjab got so close and just missed out as well. Samit, you've also, of course, stepped into the coaching space as well. How have you found that transition?

Yeah, it's been interesting. How you are trying to say less than more.

Okay.

Saying less is actually quite good because you're putting the ownership back on the player. So I'm waiting for the player to ask me rather than I'm telling the player, which is how I'd try to be coached.

Did you learn that from some of the coaches you'd had growing up?

Yeah, Peter Moores for me and Flower were very constructive, but there was no grey area, which was really important. Well, you knew exactly where you stood with Flower and Pete. But also they give you the time to develop and evolve and learn stuff about your game that wasn't coached.

Yeah.

And I think that's really important. And kids are sponges these days, so they learn quickly. They watch off the TV. Suruvanchi, a prime example. No fear at all. Wants every ball out the park. Abhishek the same. So Yeah, saying less as possible.

What makes a good coach then, Faz? What kind of coach would you be?

I think it's all about like your man management as well and stuff and how you sort of get your message across because obviously all people, all kids are going to have different ways of interpreting information. So I think saying less is more is probably a good thing when you've got players willing to improve coming to you sort of asking for feedback and then you can go off there because sometimes if you deliver a message or someone delivers a message to you and it's not something that you might want to hear, tough luck, you're gonna need to hear it. So I think it is just how you get a message across really, because obviously, you know, you have to know your stuff, that's, that's normal, you have to have a nose for the game, but it's sort of how you deliver that message. So I think it's all the man management and keeping a calm head as well from the top.

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Hey there, this is Thomas Germain, co-host of The Interface, the show that decodes how technology is rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, Apple CEO is resigning, and we'll look at what that means for the future of smartphones. We'll talk about whether your latest favorite band is actually a secret marketing ploy and how the AI data center boom has finally met its match. Public Backlash. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

You mentioned about younger players not having that belief. When you've got someone like Suryavanshi who probably has all the belief in the world, how do you instill that into a player? Because that must be a pretty tricky job to do as a coach.

Well, you saying they got his first hundred in the IPL at 14 years old.

Oh my gosh.

That's a minute percentage of the world that could do that.

Um, it's wonderful for your confidence, doesn't it?

Absolutely.

Yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess it's the other way when you've got other sort of young talents like that who've got that talent or similar talent. Obviously maybe not similar because that's ridiculous, but talented kids who maybe don't have that belief, how do you instill it into them when you can see they've got the potential, uh, and got bags of it, but they might not see it themselves?

It's a good question, and that's just the mentality thing that you slowly, slowly have to creep into their training, and you have to train in a certain way for them to believe it. And it might be at a point where in a match where they do deliver, and you have to reinforce what they've done really, really well and make them— and show it them, video it. Yeah, tell them, arm around the shoulder, that kind of stuff. That builds up belief and there'll be no negative there at all. Regardless if there was a negative, I wouldn't mention the negative at all.

Okay.

Because the only thing you'll remember is that negative.

Yeah, yeah.

So I'd always reinforce the positive stuff and never mention the negative stuff.

Have you taken elements of your playing experience and incorporated that into your coaching style? It sounds like you have.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah.

If somebody would have coached me this way, the way I would try and coach, I probably would have got another 10-15% out of myself.

Really?

Yeah, I reckon.

Yeah. Wow.

Because then I wouldn't have played. I reckon I played 40% of my time for England in fear of getting dropped.

Yeah, that's mental, that.

But I must be saying—

always just watching behind my back saying, I'm only— I'll be dropped next game, or 2 games and I'll be done. I'll be, I'll be out of the team. And that's not a good place to be because there's always, there's always going to be someone knocking on, on the door. But I think you get more cracks now than when I was playing for England.

I think, I think to hear you say that, like, speaks a lot because at the time, I personally, because me and my dad were big fans of yourself, so like being able to chat with you is class. But I personally believed you were in the country at one point one of the best white ball players that we had. And I was quite surprised you didn't play more for England. So to hear you say that, it's like, at the level you were at, I think that's crazy, mate.

Well, I just don't understand why. The only— I don't have many regrets, but the one regret I do is having a— not playing a home test match. Yeah, I played all my country— I played all my games in England, but then not been given a chance to play in front of my home fans. And I'd always been labeled as a subcontinent type player, so every time I went away Well, some of it would be on the trip because we're going to Sri Lanka and UAE and Pakistan and India. But I just didn't get given the chance in England. But I scored all my runs here. It was baffling, to be honest. And that was the only gripe I'd have is that I didn't quite get to have a chance of playing a Test match in England. And I would've been close, but I didn't get it, which was the only bit of regret I have.

Do you think you enjoyed your time playing for England?

Loved it.

You had that fear and there was always that fear of being dropped. So I'm saying, did that take the enjoyment out of it?

Not enjoyment, 'cause I loved cricket. But yeah, maybe a little bit, right? I think there's always someone, I was always watching someone over my shoulder and one or two bad performances and I was probably one of the easiest guys to drop 'cause I batted at 7. Yeah. Yeah, I never really had a chance to go up the order. I batted up the order in India once in a series and did really well, and then I was out the squad for a bit. So it was a bit hit and miss.

Gene, you were hard done by.

Sometimes.

Sometimes. I think you were. I think you were, definitely. As I said, like, me and my dad used to watch so much, and even when you were playing for Notts and things like that, and we used to think, oh, he's so good, like ridiculously good.

I don't know about you, it's just nice to see one of our own in the England squad. Yeah, especially when I was growing up. It was just so nice to see somebody that looked like us in the England team.

I know.

Well, do you know what? Me and Ravi are one of the best mates. So, Rav, we play a lot of cricket together and I know he's done now. So it's, yeah, we always speak about the times that we did play together and that million-dollar game in Stamford T20. Out in Stamford was one of my first trips away for England. Which was a fantastic 2 weeks in Antigua, but we didn't come away with a million dollars, so it was a bit disappointing.

It's a bit closer at home for me because my— there's been a couple times where my dad's been mistaken for you, Sammy.

Really?

Yeah, honestly, unbelievable. Like, years and years ago, my dad was in the airport once and he's with all his mates and stuff, and some guy was like sheepishly looking at him, uh, and he came over and he was like, oh, He's Samit, and my dad was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, oh, can I have your autograph? He was like, yeah, cool. It was so funny. That has made my day.

There's somebody that thinks they've got Samit Patel's autograph and it's actually your dad.

I actually thought the guy off Traitors was your dad.

Oh, did you? No way.

I'm not even joking. I was convinced that that was your dad.

No way. Yeah, loads of people did, didn't they? But yeah, honestly, that, yeah, it was class. Like, it's always just—

Oh, that was class actually.

It's always something.

We're now exchanging dad stories.

Why were you actually so quiet on Trailers? And how'd you get away with it for so long?

Also, by the way, Sam, it's our first guest to have watched you on the Trailers.

Yeah, I know.

How did you get away with it for so long? You like literally didn't say anything.

No, I did. Well, I did, but you wouldn't look like that.

And then how did no one ever question you?

'Cause I'm just cool, calm, collected. No, you mean—

I'm having you on Trailers.

This boy was loving the food. That's what he was doing.

Oh, that was it. He was loving the food.

Putting the blueberries away.

Putting the blueberries away. Keeping me busy. That's what kept me quiet. My mouth was full.

And it did him a favour because he just slipped under the radar. That's why he got to the final.

Yeah, but people that slip under the radar always get questioned.

Can you just recreate your line at the end? "I've been done by grandma." Grandma done me.

Grandma done me.

Oh my God. I was in tears.

You know what? I had people messaging me, kicking off saying, "Why are you calling her a grandma? She's only 40." I was like, "What is going on here?" But you had that sort of relationship with you. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. It was class. Yeah, she was class, Rachel.

And she kept you in.

Yeah, she was good crack.

Let's bring it back onto IPL then. I want your predictions for who is going to take it. We've had a good couple of weeks now, so we hopefully may, we may have different predictions. Your bowler, your batter, and your team that are going to stick out for you this season.

My batter, Suravanshi.

Obviously. May as well just name this episode, by the way, Suravanshi Fan Club.

Team, Kings XI.

Good choice.

Bowler, Ravi Bishnoi.

Oh, that's— we've not had that yet. How come?

He's a spinner, so I have a quite— yeah, Lindsay, for that. But I think he's a really— he's experienced spinner. He's played the IPL for so long. He's actually carrying RR really well along with Jofra. I know Jofra's been doing really well, but spinning that middle period where they need wickets, Bishnoi's been getting.

Okay, thank you, Samit. For you, Faz?

Yeah, I think Suruvanchani again. He's like honestly class because people, people have been talking about is it hype, is it hype, and it's not at all because he just delivers, delivers, and he never fails to deliver, do you know what I mean? So I think 100% him. I think RCB could creep up, as I said there. I think that would be a good shout. But, uh, bowler, I think if Joffre Carré's on the way, he was— he can't really knock him, to be fair.

It's definitely not hype around Suruvanchani. I mean, it's not, and because he's shown he's consistent. Yeah, he's 5th on that list, so he's doing very, very well.

I will be very surprised if he's not in the Indian T20 setup, like, very soon. Yeah, they need to get him in.

And it's been an absolute joy. Thank you so much to both of you. Um, thank you so much. Thank you to Samit, thank you to Faraz. We will see you next week for a whole new episode of Strategic Timeout. We'll see you there.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Hey there, this is Thomas Germain, co-host of The Interface, the show that decodes how technology is rewiring your week and your world. On this week's episode, Apple CEO is resigning, and we'll look at what that means for the future of smartphones. We'll talk about whether your latest favorite band is actually a secret marketing ploy and how the AI data center boom has finally met its match: public backlash. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.