The Ashes: Bethell hundred provides belated bright spark

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Webster bowls to Bethlehem. Down the pitch, swatting it into the onside. He's got it away out towards deep mid wicket. There's the hundred for Jacob Bethel, the first first class hundred in his career. And it's come at a test match at the SCG against Australia. It's a brilliant innings from a very talented young man. So after four days of the Sydney Test match, England still still alive in this game. But it looks as though Australia are closing in on victory. England 302 for 8. So England's lead is 119. The day belonged to Jacob Bethel, his first first class hundred. What a place and what a time to score it at the SCG in an Ashes test match and only a second Ashes game. 142 not out at the close. Matthew Potts for company. England at one stage with 219 for three. Then they contrived a semi collapse to leave Australia well placed for victory on the final day. Australia 567 all out. Steve Smith first man out today for 138. Bo Webster. He's had a good game quietly. 71 not out and the last couple of wickets going cheap. Stark out for five and Boland for naught. So Australia with the lead of 183. Crawley was out in the first over again to Mitchell Stark. Duckett made 42 Root finalings, the series out for six, Brook 42. And that was the started the semi collapse. Jacks heaving one out to deep midwicket for naught's second ball. Smith run out in a mix up with Bethel for 26. Stokes struggling with a groin injury off the pitch for most of the day, came out, he was out for one and then cast nicked off to Smith for 16. Michael Vaughan is here. Jonathan Agnew is here. Let's start with Jacob Bethel. It's the right place at the start tonight, even though Australia looked to be closing in on victory. Well, what's your assessment of Jacob?

Well, it's the biggest smile that I've had on my face for many, many weeks and actually for a few years. Because what we've witnessed today has been something very special. And it's not that, you know, England have unearthed a young player, but he's played in a way that Test match cricket has been played for many, many generations. You recently respect the ball. You have good balance, you have a good technique. I don't think we talk about technique enough in Test match cricket. The best players in the world who survive the longest, the Joe roots. Steve Smith in his quirky way, but his head position is always spot on. And Jacob Bethel today, that was a technical masterclass, a masterclass in composure, calmness. To think that he came out there in the first over with England 180 behind. He's facing Mitchell Stark and Scott Bonnet. And that was a tricky pitch. The ball was bouncing, the ball was moving around. Of course, he played and missed it a few, but the stroke play, when he got the. The chance to score, he didn't try and overhit it. For three and a half years now. We've seen England play some innings where they've always overhit the ball. Now even Joe Root at times over the last three and a half years over hit the ball. We've seen a batting masterclass today from someone that let the ball come and just caressed the ball. And with the powerful. These guys and the bats are amazing. They don't need to overhead it, just crest the ball on the floor, floor. I didn't see him hit the ball in the air that often. He danced down and hit one over midwicket to get to three figures, but he hit the ball on the floor. It was, it was a throwback. And that's why I'm smiling, Simon, because it's just given me for, for a couple of years I've thought, oh, am I wrong that Test match cricket has moved on and you need to play in a different way. And we, we, we should really kind of celebrate the fact that everyone needs to bat like Harry Brook these days. Well, Harry Brooks, a lovely player, but I'll tell you what, give me a Jacob Bethlehem or Joe Root. All day long in Test match cricket.

People will be saying, hold on a second. Jacob Bethel, he's come out he's made a hundred. Why hasn't he played in the whole series?

Well, I'm going to let John answer this because he's come up with a very, very good point.

I've got a theory here. I think Jacob Bethel is a very lucky young man that he's playing now and didn't play at the start of last summer when Basball was still mad. And I'm not sure he could have come out and played like that, but now he can. You know, times are changing and he's played a proper number three test innings there. Lovely footwork, right forward, right back. He didn't play. He didn't play a crazy shot at all. This is a youngster who's been picked largely on what he's done in T20 cricket and he's completely changed his game. He's got a handful of first class games behind him. You know, he's never scored 100 and all that stuff, but he's completely changed his game. He's remodeled himself to suit the occasion without any of that noise in his head. Not any of that nonsense about going out and, you know, run towards danger, whatever the stuff has been over the last couple of years. I think he's lucky that he didn't play earlier in the summer. He can now come in now when things are changing and play like that, with none of that sort of outside noise or pressure. He'll score runs at a good rate anyway when he has to. But I just thought, yeah, that was a really beautiful innings. And Michael's right, it's the first time we've smiled for a while. Just to actually sit back and watch that and really feel proud. Walked up and down the corridors here outside the commentary boxes. You know, for the last few weeks you've been shuffling into the ABC in our case, or Michael de Fox. You go in there a bit apologetically. No, I called his hundred on ABC radio, did it really proudly with toughers. You think, there you go, you'll see this lad in four years time.

There'll be plenty of Australians though, saying, where's he been?

Yeah, but you know, the one thing about leadership is. And I was saying to you on commentary, Simon, it's very important that you're loyal. And sometimes that loyalty and kind of consistency of selection, you get blinded and you get too emotionally attached to players. And I'm not just pointing the finger at Olipo, but the technical side of Jacob today was so much better than what we've seen at number three. To survive at number three, you need A strong technique. And then you've got to have a real calm mindset because you're out there facing the bowlers when they're fresh, when the game's hot. And you've got to have a real clear kind of game plan. And the only way that you can have calmness, I believe, is when you've got a good technique, because your technique looks after you. When you don't quite read the length of the ball, you go back when you should before, but your technique and your bat swing just looks after you. Your head position looks after you for those balls that you don't quite pick up as well. That's what we've seen today, because it wouldn't have been that Jacob picked up them perfectly every single time. But that back flow, that head position, you know, leaving balls getting under balls. The bouncer came, all right, I'll. I'll duck under. He wore one on his head. Now, one flew off, a brute of a ball. Brute of a ball, and then the next ball, guess what? Right back in behind it, straight back down the ground. It was a, a, A technical master class. A real kind of strong mentality of calmness, which surely sends the message to many in the English game, and not just this group, but I think there's many playing the English game back in county cricket and think, oh, the basketball way's the way to go. You dance down, you run towards the Dane, you play the reverse ramps, the tricks. That's the way you bat in the longest format. And by the way, he's got another gear or two to go up. And the best players in the world, when they've got five or six gears in test cricket, they stay in second and third because they just like batting and they want to bat for a long period of time. There's no point in going into fourth and fifth because that's too risky. Harry Brook's gone into fourth and fifth again today. Far too risky. You know, just before he got out, Harry Brook, he gets the ball that spins back. But, you know, I watched him. Jacob Bethel gets 100 celebration. Fantastic. And all of a sudden, Mitchell Stark bolster starts dancing down, backing away. You know, it's been a lesson for Harry, actually, that to be consistent against the best bowlers, particularly in Australia, you've got to calm down. He's going to have to calm down because he's offering too many risky shots, too many opportunities for Australia. And they'll spread the field and go, come on, Harry, you'll make a mistake because you get bored. Ari, you're getting bored batting. Don't get bored batting when the conditions are in your favor. The ball's been going up and down and suddenly the partnership gets developed and you suddenly get bored because Mitchell Stark puts a couple of fielders at cover point. He puts one back. Oh, I try and whack one over cover point. Just bat, carry on batting about for four or five hours and see where it takes you. And that's, you know, a real lesson. We've had a youngster today, Joe Root in the first innings gave a great lesson again, technique back for a long period of time. Great mindset. Not going up to fifth gear. Just staying in second and third today. I hope it's a lesson to Harry that for him to bat and get big, big scores against the best in tough conditions away from home in particular, just stay in second and third gear for a long period of time. If you're in the right later on when you batting with the tail, then go berserk. Got absolutely berserk. But great lesson from Jacob Bethel.

We often see young players who, who brought up on white ball cricket play, playing test cricket and they do play the ramps and the fancy stuff and it's kind of like a modern test match innings is kind of what we've always become used to saying. You that little flick over the shoulder, whatever, there's none of that, none of that at all. He just played an absolutely traditional test match innings there. There wasn't one bit of funkiness about it. He just played absolutely beautifully. Every ball on its mounts, you could, you could, you could actually could dust down every one of Jeffrey Boycott's favorite sayings and you could apply it to that innings.

I'll also say full credit to the management and Luke Wright and Rob Key, whoever said right now he's going to bat number three. Last week I looked at him, what are you throwing him at? 3, 4 at the MCG on a juicy one. I thought it was wrong, but you know, they've seen a lot more of Jacob than we have and they've gone, nah, he's got the technique to bat at number three. So full credit for them, you know, they've gone with it and now we can look down and go, yeah, we've got a number three. You know, the last time I reckon that I've looked down at English cricket and thought, oh, I'm really confident of number three is Jonathan Trott. That's how far I'm going back when I've really looked and gone, we've got a number three. Well, I've looked down today and thought, oh hello, we'll be calm when Jacob's back.

So have we got a new template for this England side that's developed over the course of the series? And what does that mean for the, the current coach?

Well, it didn't happen with Brook, did it? That's a typical Brook innings at the moment. Got, got to 40, got out. That's, that's the way he's been playing. I mean he, he hasn't changed at all. I don't think so. I mean it's people, batsman like that who, who, who are going to have to knuckle down into and to change. I mean, I think Bethel, I say fortunately he's been able to go out there without any of that stuff ringing in his ears. I think it's still ringing in Brooks ears. I think he's still, I'm afraid, part of the old way of doing it. He's got to change.

So is that way going to change? Does it have to change? I think I'm thinking about the coach, Michael.

Well, he's got to change. You know, Baz McCollum's got to change. You know, this team have not won a five match series on his watch. Got nowhere near a world Test championship final on his watch. Not beating India, not beating Australia. They're the two series that you judged on real big series, series threw the.

Series away against him.

The methods that Baz has brought, you know, and this psychology that he talks about that, you know, it's about the top 2 inches and making sure that the mental side's right. Well actually England under him have not won a big series and under real big moments. They haven't actually coped with the pressure. You know, you look at this series at the start, didn't cope with it. They went 2 nil down too quickly. So he has to be honest with himself. I think he can change. I do. I think he, if he's reasonable and not stubborn to understand that it's a learning process. You know, he's relatively quite a young coach. He hasn't really coached for many, many years. So if he's willing to accept that he needs to change the way that he approaches the game. You look at some of the details about this England side, you know, the preparation's been poor. We'll keep going on about that, but it's been poor. Just fielding drills in the morning. I watch Australian poor. They're a professional outfit. I see Alex Carey down there every morning just doing those little drills, little Js I used to see, you know, Matt Pryor do those drills. I saw Alex Stewart for many years do those drills. I don't see Jamie Smith doing those drills. I see Australia taking a load of high balls. Every player load of high balls. I don't see that from the England team. So the detail needs to come in for, for, for Vasma column to stay. And if he's willing to create that detail and accept that he's made mistakes and change the process in terms of the way that the team play, I have no problem with the, the combination carrying on. But if it's going to be, oh no, we're going to carry on, we're going to be a bit flat, flimsy and you know, we're going to be running towards the danger on a regular basis because no one's mentioned white ball cricket yet. You know, white ball cricket in 2025 we went backwards. They've got a World Cup, a T20 World cup in Sri Lanka. That's going to be big, you know, because a lot of the data driven coaches now in white ball cricket, the Andy Flowers, the Tom Moody's, they're winning because they, they go through every attention to detail, they look at it, they go again and go, what else? Because they want to have that 1% edge on any opposing team. I want to see them with a little bit more of that detail.

People will be listening and saying, hold on, he's going to continue even though his methods have kind of been shown to fail here. I would. Do you see it as likely that he will continue and would it be the right decision?

Well, I can only allude, say football, you know, a manager. Manchester United just lost their manager. He was, you know, what did he go for? He just wanted four, three, three or whatever his formation. That's my formation. If you're a stubborn coach and that's all you deliver, well, guess what, you're going to get found out. Baz McCollum's methods have been found out.

Now what worries me is that's the way he played the game.

Yeah.

So therefore can, you know, can he actually become something else? Because that's the way he played.

Yeah. He, he has wanted the England team and again he's wanted the England team to play the way that he played and the way that he likes the game to be played. And I think it's very hard and in any international sports team, if you just play one way, I think the opposition will find you out. I think that's what's happened against the better teams. I think the basball way has been found out. But, you know, I think he can learn and I think Ben and Baz can get together and I think the Test team in particular can, can improve. Let's see what happens in the T20 World cup because, you know, you go back to the Champions Trophy last year in the subcontinent when we went with a load of right arm, quick bowlers, got fouled it, didn't win a game, got hammered in India with the same kind of approach in your load of spin, we were going pace on. So I want to see what happens in the T20 World cup because it's all about detail now. English cricket needs more detail, it needs a more professional approach. It needs to get away from this looseness. Absolutely no fine with players playing golf. But this England side on this trip have been loose, they've been a loose cricket team and that's got to sharpen up and that looseness goes out on the pitch and then it goes off the pitch. They need to be a little bit sharper. And I think the management can carry on together as long as they're willing to accept that they need to change slightly.

Yeah, and it'll be very interesting. I mean, he'll be the second person that we interview tomorrow. And that's going to be the line of questioning, isn't it? Because it's kind of out there now, it seems that this is what's going to happen, that he will be approached by the chief executive and so on, and there's going to be a review. But if Brendan McCollum wants to stay in the job, he will have to agree that they change their ways. And I think that's an obvious question, isn't it? Well, then, Brendan, are you going to change? You going to change tack?

Well, it's very simple. It's an easy conversation because you sit Baz down and say, look, Baz, who scored hundreds in Australia and how did they score the hundreds? Joe Root. Joe Root, Jacob Bethel, how did they get them? Technical brilliance, calmness, composure, not dancing down, trying to whack Scott Bowen, who's a wonderful bowler, leaving the ball, getting under. Then the field spreads and you knock it around, spin comes on, knock it around. All right, Dance down and hit one over the top because mid on comes up. So the three successful innings that we've seen on the tour have been played by, dare I say it, Test match batters.

Another bit of, I mean, Mitchell Stark wicket four times in the first over. What a surprise. He's out there loosening up. Does A hole over. He's rolling, he's running in and bowling his first over for real at 90 miles an hour. You watch our fellows. Joffre Archer's first over is about 83 miles an hour. They don't do it, but it's just such simple professional discipline, isn't it?

I mean, what a surprise, you get found out. I think in this era of sport like the England side, they've got some professionals, professionals in there and they work hard, but, you know, you get found out against some of these teams. I watch Andrew McDonald on a regular basis. He's so kind of detailed, you know, he's coming up with strategies, plans. Alex Carey up to the stump. I haven't seen one this tour where I've looked down, gone. Okay, that's cool. That's good. I like what I'm seeing there. I haven't seen enough out there in the middle to suggest they've had some real strong meetings about what they're going to do out in the middle.

What about England's other batting today? We talked a lot about Jacob Bethel. Did they make the most of the situation that they kind of eventually found themselves in? I mean, they were 200.

Crawley tried. I mean, Crawley, you know, you try and leave one early on, but again, it's stark. His loose is in the ball, swinging. LBW Duckett, poor shot again. That's. That's that little limp, sort of nothing dab outside the off stump. He'll feel he's unlucky that he played the ball into his stumps. Actually, if you look at the shot, it's hardly surprising it did a route. Got a typical Boland brook we've discussed really nice little 42 and started to get loose. And was that an UN. I don't know. You describe Brook's dismissal, backing away, trying to force the offspin.

Yeah, I mean, it's the way Harry plays, but it's been a long way, you know, I think you were surprised by how much he spun, so I'm not going to be too critical of that. Will Jackson, what was that? I mean, we laugh because we've seen some remarkable. I mean, the podium for the worst shot of the tour is going to be strong. There's quite a few that got chance of getting gold medal. I'd say that Jamie Smith's obviously got the gold, but silver and bronze. There's a good challenge by a number of the England players. You know, run outs.

And just to explain, he came out ahead of Jamie Smith against Webster, the offspin, blocked the first ball, second ball clumps out into deep mid wicket and is caught by Cameron Green. Nice catch, but what an ext. The lead was 36 I think at the time.

Yeah, I mean I look at this batting lineup, I think, right, who's going to be there in the summit, you know, is that crawler be a strong candidate? Ben Duckett. Absolutely. I have no doubts that Ben's going to be playing. But what I'd like to hear and see from the England management is that if you go back to the Australian summer, right at the start it was almost like, right, who's going to score runs? Marnus Labor. Shane had to go back, get a load of runs to make sure that he was in the team. He did that. Jake Weatherall played nice. So they picked Jake Weatherall on his state form. You know, I just love the England management to send a message to all these players. Say, by the way, that New Zealand test in June. We're not sure yet. We're not sure because I, I do think it's been a little bit of a closed shot that no one's really felt they could get into this group. Crawley, Duckett were always going to open on this tour. Well, Zach Crawley's finished a tour with an average of 28.

So you would still persist with him?

No, no, I'm saying I may do, but I want him to go back to county cricket and I want him to get a load of runs. You know, if you, if you can't get a load of runs at county level, you know, how are you going to do it at this level? He's averaging 30 in Test cricket over 60 Tests for a reason. But I've seen enough on this trip and I've seen it in the past. I do think he can play frustrates a life out because he gets out too often when I think, oh, we've got a player here and he plays some lovely shots. But I don't think any of these players other than the likes of Bethel Root Brook, obviously I do like Duckett. I think he's a wonderful player that struggled here because he hasn't left the ball well enough. But I hope the England setup realize that they, they should send a message to those within the county game for April May that there's opportunities in the past in the last two or three. I don't think those opportunities have been there. I think it's been quite a closed shop that that shop, the door to the shop needs to be open once again for players to know that if they go and get 3 or 400 in April or May. Give that. Give that carrot to the county game. Those players within it. By the way, we're not sure what our team. It could be Crawley and Duckett, but someone like Zach's gonna have to go and get a few runs as well.

Duckett. Why don't we talk to you about Duckett a minute? Because it became him. Him not leaving the ball became kind of a bit of a. A bit of a thing, wasn't it? You know, that's kind of. That's the way I play. And this is what. I don't know. I don't need to leave the ball when everyone, in fact, is saying, yeah, but when it comes to Australia, Ben, you can't keep doing that. You're going to get out. And it's happened throughout this series. Why. Why has nobody said to him, actually, Ben, that. That ego stuff is nonsense. You need to work at your game. You're going to have to tighten up your game if you get runs in Australia.

We've had a. We've had a. A culture that's been created that, you know, Jamie Smith in the first inning, Simon Katitz said on the radio now, he probably went in the dressroom and people were patting him on the back because you were, you know, you were. You were trying to get the game moving forward. That's been the culture of this. This era in the last three and a half years. And I also think it's a load of nonsense. It's all about winning at this level. It's all about the end result. And we've said for months and months and months, this is judgment time. And in Australia, we'll judge this, this method, whether it didn't work against India, the drew, you know, and there's a very likely chance, if you look at it tomorrow, that Australia win. They'll win 4 1. Guess what they did against India away. They lost 4 1. Guess what they did Against India at home. Drew 2 all. Guess what they did against Australia at home. Drew 2 all. This England team under this regime playing the way that they've been playing has given us some incredibly entertaining moments, but they don't get the trophies in the hand. And for me, World Test Championship finals winning, Ashes series winning against India, that's what you get judged on.

We're going to hear from Jacob Bethel soon, but Glenn has joined us as well. Glenn, just from a bowler's perspective, how did you assess Jacob Bethel today?

Yeah, no, I thought he looked good. Coming in there early is always interesting, but he looked like got a solid, solid technique. You know, he didn't try to go out there and blaze, you know, the.

Ball to the boundary.

I was watching it and the, the ball was making the boundary. It was sort of placing the shots, timing and more so. But he, he's not one of those brutes.

He doesn't go out like Harry Brook.

And just, you know, just smoke it. So yeah, I thought he played well. I played, he played a very good tempo. He just kept this, the strike ticking over. He had a couple of playing misses, but it didn't seem to worry him. He just, you know, refocused next ball and off he went. So I thought, you know, good, solid technique, good temperament and yeah, now he deserved that hundred.

There's been a lot of chat here about the, the way this Australian team is selected and say has been selected for this game. Like no frontline spinner. It looks as though they're going to go 4:1 up in the series and lo and behold, Bo Webster today comes out and picks up three wickets with his off breaks.

Well, there you go. And some of those really turned, didn't they? So, yeah, yeah, listening to, you know, Steve Smith, he said our hands been forced a bit with the type of pitch as we, we're getting here. You can't pick a spinner.

Yeah, I don't agree with that 100%.

You know, if Nathan Lyon was in the team, would they have told him again, sorry mate, we're, we're leaving you out.

So.

And especially when you look what's happened out there, there some of those balls that boat Webster bowed really turned. Could you imagine someone like Nathan Lyon who's more consistent, you know, knows the art so much better. He'd be a real handful out there.

Do you expect Australia to go on and win from here comfortably?

Oh, you'd like to think so. You know, it's. The game's not over. There's been, you know, teams bounce back and bowl out teams for less than what England already have, you know, go out tomorrow morning, there are only five overs to the new ball, you know, see what they can do. It'd be interesting to see the way Bethel plays it tomorrow. Potts has got a first class hundred, hasn't he, to his name? Yeah. Tongue be interesting, but yeah, see how many they can get tomorrow morning. But then when they do have to bowl, they have to knock head over it early.

If he gets off to a flyer, the game's over. Right, okay. I promised you Jacob Bethel. Let's hear from him now. He's been speaking to Henry Moran.

Well, Jacob, congratulations on a quite wonderful innings. A start is born is how Michael Vaughan described it.

How was it out there?

Yeah, it was very good. I think it's just kind of one of those wickets, that new ball. I said yesterday the new ball was the trickiest part. And then once we kind of got past that, it was nice to bat on and you just had to kind of concentrate.

What was the emotion waiting on 99?

And then when you got that run.

Or that boundary that took you to three figures?

Obviously goosebumps when I got over the line, but on 99, obviously there's a few nerves, but I kind of made the mistake of getting out in the 90s over in New Zealand, and I actually think at that point I stopped watching the ball over in New Zealand and I was just like, get me over. So, yeah, all I was focusing on was watching the ball and just playing every ball like I had done throughout the innings.

Temperament is something that's very hard to learn. How do you develop that calmness at the crease that seems to serve you.

So well in Test cricket?

I think a big contributor is the fact that I was very small growing up. I only really got able to hit boundaries and sixes when I was about 15, 16, so I had that kind of ability to bat long periods of time when I was younger, and I think that's kind of just instilled in me throughout.

Now, hitting the boundaries is something that you earn the right to do on.

A surface like this, particularly early on.

How difficult is it going to be to keep going? Get started again tomorrow?

I think new balls around the corner, so that's going to pose different challenges, but I imagine they're going to have the field out and try and stop me from hitting boundaries, so just have to try and hit it in the gaps and I guess play smart, as you say. But, yeah, I have to figure that out on the fly and go with the flow and see what they present.

Playing smart is something that occasionally cricketers have been accused of not necessarily always doing, particularly in Test cricket more generally recently.

Where did you learn to do that?

I think smart is a weird word. I think that if someone sees an option and they want to take it, that is smart. But I think, yeah, I don't know where I've learnt it. I just kind of play it as I see it and some risks seem a bit too high to take and others don't. So, yeah, I think it depends on the tolerance of the person.

What about the Match situation. It's not going to be easy for.

England to win this game, but you've given yourself an opportunity.

Yeah, definitely. I think before we went out to bat we were talking about 200 lead. Anything above 200 would have been very defendable on this wicket, especially if we get a few quick ones. I think tomorrow me, Potsy and Tungi will try and get us as near to that. I'd buy your hand off for 200 now, but yeah, I think we'll get 180 and then have a red hot crack at them tomorrow.

What did the captain say when you.

Got back in the dressing room?

He just said, well played. You know, I haven't had a time to properly chat to anyone. I'm coming and do this stuff with you, but yeah, I'm looking forward to chatting to the boys.

You may not have seen it, but some wonderful shots of family here as well.

That makes it extra special.

Yeah, I saw it over on the TV over there and that's. Yeah, that's pretty special. I'll definitely catch up with them tonight and have a chat about it.

How do you keep yourself together when you see that?

I don't know. I wouldn't say I'm overly emotional, but it definitely tickled the spot deep down. So. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know, we'll see tonight, actually.

Well played, Jacob. Thanks for your time.

Well, a very special day for Jacob Bethel and his family watching on it. Just that Bayesian lilt actually to his voice there just reminds me of something that Brian Lara said about him. That Brian Lara said that Jacob Bethel was a better player at 11 than he was at 11. Of course, the, the test comes over time, doesn't it, to be a better player at 20 and a better player at 25 and a better player at 30. But that was some statement by him today.

Was. And every obviously video recorder, I don't have that anymore. But all the data analysis, analysis from other countries will be monitoring that and they'll be working out ways and weaknesses and that's the difficult thing about being a, a new batsman these days. They're all working against you and so he's got to be ready for that. But looking at his technique today, as we've said before, I hope it doesn't change anything for now. There's things that people will try, short stuff or around the wicket, over the wicket. They'll try and narrow down areas in which they think that he has a weakness. But it's pretty difficult to see anything out there today.

I have to laugh because last night in a press conference he, he said something like, you know, we've got to give Will Jack something to bolt to in the second innings. And I just burst out laughing. You can't be that confident. I mean Will Jack isn't going to be in the game. You know what, he's gone out there and got a ton. He's got one what, 19 runs to play with at the minute. If you can get another 50 or 60, Wiljax might have something to play with tomorrow. You never know. So yeah, well, we'll wait and see. But I, I like the way he went about it then. Press conference. A lot of things that annoy me in press conference these days when I listen to England, even to Australian players where they don't want to talk themselves or say, yeah, I felt good out there, I did this. It's. Oh no, it's, it's not about me, it's about the team and all that rubbish. So he went out there and he said, you know, he said how he was just stated some facts. This is the way he plays, this is what he's thinking. I do this, I do that. I, I thought that was really good and from a young fella it shows good confidence and you know, he's done well.

Well, there's always two sides to a story. Let's get some reaction from the Australia camp now. Bo Webster was their man today. He made 71 not out and then he picked up 3 for 51 with his off brakes. He was their surprise spin bowling success story. He's been speaking with Isha Gua by Webster.

What a stunning performance from you in this test match. 53 wickets. Did you imagine you could have the impact you would with the ball with the spin as well?

No, I certainly didn't think it was going to be with the spin this game but that's the way it goes. There was a bit of wear and tear there from Saki's foot marks and we managed to make the most of in that session.

What was key for you?

I think just trying to buy my best ball. I don't bowl them a hell of a lot to be honest. I think they're better the less I bowl them in the net. So when I do get him out in a game I'm not thinking too much and just trying to hit a good area. And we got lucky enough to get a couple to buy today and good catch by Smudge off a bit of a half tracker there but I'll take it.

And were you Expecting Will Jacks to come out as aggressively as he did?

No, not.

Not that aggressive. No. I think I, you know, got a bit lucky there with the inside edge, like I said, but got a bit of bite out of that rough. And yeah, a hell of a catch from Greeny. I own a couple after. Green lining one in the first innings and he's taken a stunner there, so I'll buy him a beer after the game for sure.

And you seem to be a track specialist here as well. Another 50 for you, batting with Steve Smith.

How much did you enjoy out there?

Yeah, I love batting here. I think it's a. It's a really nice place to bat. Obviously, the. The big scores have reflected that and. No, I just sort of feel like I'm in good form. Feel like I've carried on my form from the Test in the West Indies and right through to the start of the shield season in here and lucky enough to get it going the last Test and just tried to make the most of it, I suppose. And it was, yeah, like I said, batting a 9's a bit foreign, but.

Yeah, I'll take it.

We've had to wait a while, so congratulations to you. Just lastly, where are you at in this game?

Yeah, very well placed, obviously, 120 lead. Would like to mop up these last two as quickly as we can. Hopefully the new ball around the corner as well. I'm not sure if I'll get a run in the morning, but I'd like to try, try and snag a five for there, but no, hopefully not too many ahead and let the top water boys get the job done.

Well done once again and all the best tomorrow.

Thanks, ace.

Cheers.

That is Bo Webster. That new ball is five overs away. So a memorable emotional day for Jacob Bethel today and potentially for Usman Khawaja tomorrow. His last day in international cricket and he's been speaking to Corbyn Middlemass and the ABC commentary team.

Usman, firstly, congratulations on a wonderful 15 year career.

Thank you.

Yeah, look, I'm just very grateful, honestly. I've said it a lot, but I am not. Everyone gets the opportunity to retire on their own terms at the home ground. My parents live still in Parramatta, so it's. It's turned out really nice. I'm just very happy.

So you get to go to bed tonight, wake up tomorrow, you get to do it one last time.

Yeah.

Look, what sort of emotion does that leave?

I mean, I just. Firstly, we just want to win. It'd be a lot nicer to go out on a win and four one. And I think that emotion will be much higher if we can finish off.

And do it well.

But either way, I think, you know, one more day left, I can relax after tomorrow. So one last push and then I'm good.

Give me the state of play. So eight for 302, England. The lead's 119. You're out there, you see the pitch.

And how it's panned out.

What do you make of where the match is situated?

Look, it's asked for the taking tomorrow. If we play well enough, bowl well enough, get him out, we're gonna chase a runs down. So we did a tremendous job at the end of the day today. We sort of let him go in that second session and then, you know, Slug coming on and bowling those beautiful offies and getting that wicket. There's a like two second referral call. We're getting Brook and then we cracked it open there. So it was really nice. End of the day because it was looking a little bit dicey for a little bit. Mate, you're not a. I like to.

Go, you're not an emotional guy. I know that. But I saw some emotion in your press conference.

What are the emotions going to be like tomorrow morning?

There's definitely emotion. Honestly, when I was about coming out to bat, there was emotions. I kind of walled up and I'm like, alright. Literally, as I was walking down, I. Well done. Like, compose yourself, you're about to bat. So it was actually really. That's one of the hardest batting 10 minutes I've ever done in my life. Going out there, first innings, I'm normally really clear when I went out. Well, I had to face Bethel first of all. That's what I wasn't expecting, to face Bethel. All the imagery stuff I did wasn't facing Bethel when I first came out there. It was Tungi or someone else that took me that by a little bit surprise. But it was more so that there's so many emotions going through it. It was hard to calm myself down the first 10 minutes, but once I did, it was kind of business as usual.

Are we going to see Usman Khawaj about at the top of the order one last time?

I don't think so. But after Heddy's been absolutely craving him. Jake started off well too. So, look, I just like to get these runs, but, you know, it's not going to be easy the way we get. Sometimes it is, sometimes it is. And you know what? Run, small run, Chase likes, you either do them really easy or you have to work for them a little bit. So I'm not sure what tomorrow will hold. I mean, Heddy's already made one run chase easy, so we'll have to wait and see.

You guys get into modus cricketers.

I understand that.

So you're walking off the ground. You're out for 17.

The state of the test match at.

That stage, I mean, it was still in the balance as to where you're going to get the chance to bat again. Everyone at the SCG is on their feet. What was going through your mind on the way off in particular? I noticed today the SCG groundsman's been at it. There's a thanks Uzi sign with your number on the outfield.

What were you thinking walking off at that stage? I was very confident that I'd get another hit. I still am. I still always ready to bat, so I never. We played cricket too long to count our chickens. I'm batting five, literally just stakes. Bang, bang, bang. And I'm in. I could be in there in the third over. You just never know. So for me, we're walking off. I wanted to embrace the crowd, but I don't want to start like, you know, giving my farewell and then having to come back out and do it again. Racing the Battery, everyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And then come out again. I was like, I'm not sure I can right now. But it doesn't. It's not about that. Honestly, if we got him out today and I didn't get to do that, I would have been perfectly fine. I've had a great week and it's been a lot of fun. So I'm sweet.

I need my microphone.

Apart from doing your own spray painting on the ground.

Uzzy, tell me.

I'm looking at your hat.

What does the hat on your head mean to you?

I mean, the bayou green means. Oh, sorry. The bayou green is so much now. I mean, back then they used to give them out, right? Every tour, maybe your day. You're not that old. Are you dizzy? Might be. Back in the day, they used to give them out. They don't give them out anymore, you know, so it's one of those things that you cherish. But I've had this conversation to the lads. I love my bay green, but I'm not attached to my baggy green. I'm more attached to playing cricket for Australia. I can lose my bag of green. It's fine. It's materialistic, you know. I mean, think Sean Marsh got eaten by moths and so these things can happen. But playing for Australia is. That's what I'll always hold close to my heart. And I mean, these guys have done it. The dream feels so far away at times, especially when you're younger. Especially when I came to New South Wales squad, I saw how good the players were, how good the batsmen were, particularly. I was like, I'm not sure if I'm up to this level. And you finally cracked that level. And then you look at the next level. You look at Michael Clark. I remember just even every time he came to the SCG or played for New South Wales, he scored 100. I'm like, I can't score 100 every time I play, like, first class cricket. How good is this guy? And it always seems so far away. And then when you finally get there, you're like, how good's this? And you're like, wait a minute, I want to keep doing this. There's so many stages to it. And then when you reflect on it at the end of your career, you just think how lucky we are just to play one game, let alone be able to do it for about 15 years.

So, yeah, you spoke for 43 minutes.

In your farewell press conference. Made the most of it, didn't I?

Rightfully so. It's your chance to have your say. On the way out, you touched on a number of different topics when you walk out of that and then you get ready to play a game of.

Cricket in 48 hours.

Did.

Did it. Was it a distraction?

Did you have much feedback? How did you. You go sort of moving on to what you had to do next, which was ultimately, obviously playing this game.

It was tough. I'm not gonna lie. I've kind of ideal would. I would have liked to announce a little bit earlier. I mean, I told Aaron McDonald in Melbourne, like, eight, five days before I announced it, I told him I kind of knew. I knew in Adelaide, so I didn't tell anyone, but my wife knew. And I told him straight away, pretty much after the game finished, maybe a day or two afterwards. And I wish I would have loved to do it then, but everyone was clocking off, going New Year's Eve and, you know, doing what they do. So it was like too hard to do it then. And we just lost a game. So I'm like, maybe it's not the right time. So I waited. It was a little bit distraction. But once you get in the cricket, once you get in the game, I don't think it would have mattered. No matter. When I announced It. Retirement's always a little bit of a distraction because it is what it is. It's the last game, but I've really enjoyed this game. Hopefully we can finish off with a win. Are you content when you walk out.

Of international cricket tomorrow?

So content? Yeah. Yeah, very much so. I think I look forward to not having to worry about sneaking off anymore. Yeah, it'll be good fun.

That is Osman Kaja, who plays last day of international cricket tomorrow, England. We'll be hoping to see him walk out to bat, I dare say, and also probably walk off after getting him out, but we'll see how that happens tomorrow. What transpires tomorrow? Right, let's put the full stop statistically on the day. Here is Andy Zaltzman. I presume he's starting with Jacob Bethel. Yes. Let's start with Bethel's superb innings. He's the fifth England player to make his maiden first class century in a Test match. Gus Atkinson did it recently. Stuart broad back in 2012 and Jack Russell in 1989. And a guy called Henry Wood back in the 19th century against South Africa. It's. This is a stat that really struck me. He was the highest score ever by an England player aged under 25 in Australia, breaking a record that had stood since AG Steele scored 135 on this ground in February 1883. He's the ninth youngest player to make a century for England in all Test cricket. And eight more runs. He'll be the second youngest England player to make 150 after Len Hutton. So truly extraordinary performance. Less good from some of, well, the rest of England's batting lineup. Odd series. Joe Root, two fine centuries, but seven scores under 20. Ben Stokes, six single figure scores. Eight scores under 20 in the series. And Harry Brook, one of the oddest series in England players ever had. Seven scores of 30 or more. Only the second England player to have seven scores of 30 or more in a series in Australia since 1971. But no centuries. And three dismissals in the 40s, two in the in the 30s and one for 52s. The 84 in the first innings. Anything more major than that? In 10 Ashes Tests. Now nine first innings he's passed. He's past 39 out of 10 first innings. 13:30 plus scores against Australia. Still no centuries. 10 hundreds against other opponents in 25 Tests. Ben Duckett, similarly. Lots of starts. Six scores in the 20s of 20 or more. No 50s. First England player who's had that combination in an Ashes series since len Braun in 1907. 08 and one of a very few. And the fifth Ashes opener who's played five Tests in a. In a series without reaching 50. Sorry, fifth for England, sixth in all Ashes. So a lot of disappointments for England across the series, but, yeah, a truly fantastic and auspicious innings from. From Jacob Bethel. Okay, thanks very much, Andy. So much content on BBC sounds for you to listen to, including Andy's TMS Ashes Quiz and the Ashes Top 10. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Coming next, Jonathan Agnew speaks to a very famous couple who have been watching here at the SCG.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

Amongst the crowd here, really delighted this sporting couple who are also part of the Royal family. Mike Tindall, Zara Phillips are here. Mike, of course, the former England rugby union international, part of the squad, who won the 2003 World cup here in Sydney. And Zara, the Olympian, who is BBC Sports Personality of the Year in 2006 after winning the individual eventing world title and a silver medalist at the 2012 London Olympics. Presented to her by her mum, of course, and the Princess Royal. It's great to see you here. I'm surprised to see you here.

How are you?

But it's great to have you here.

No, it's good to be here. We are primarily here because we're up here. We come every year to Australia for the Magic Millions and we head up to the Gold coast next year and we were doing something with seven today.

Next year or on Friday?

Well, it's a full year. Sorry, Friday next week, I was supposed to say. So that's why we're here. But we have. We've been to the test match a couple times. We have so many friends down in Sydney. We obviously met down in Sydney. We've done a couple of weddings down here where we brought the kids out. So we've spent a few Christmases down here.

It's fabulous.

It's a special place.

What do you think of.

Yeah, I love.

Have you been here before?

No, cg, I haven't. I don't think I've done many cricket cars, but I went to the mcg. But rugby, it was for Lions.

Oh, okay. Yeah, Right.

So that was pretty amazing. But this is great. And yeah, Sydney's got a special place in the heart and I think I've done nords a couple of times, but that's it.

Yeah, I. I played my first test, Granted, it was schoolboy test against Australia. Against Australia here.

Yeah.

On this ground. But there was no none of these. This is. None of these new stadiums. There was just the old clubhouse.

Was the hill there?

Yeah, the hill was there.

Go back a bit.

1990. 1997, this was.

Right. How did you go?

We beat them 47, 23. Oh, so. Yeah, but we had a very good team back then, quite a lot who went on to play for England.

Right, okay. What about cricket?

Cricket, wasn't that greater, but there you go.

Did you play?

I played a bit at school, but yeah. Turning professional at rugby at 18 sort.

Yeah, rugby, of course, it just takes over. How. How does it come here, Zara, and get all the sort of. I mean, it's quite friendly. Stick. But it still stick all the same for the Australians when we. When we lose. I mean, it's tough, isn't it?

I know. I think, you know, it's. It's, you know, I. I look over the other side of the. Of the pitch and, you know, the barmy army there, and they're just, you.

Know, I wouldn't go down there, by the way. I really honestly don't suggest that you go down there. They'll be very pleased to see you.

They are the best traveling fans, aren't they?

Yeah, they are.

You know, and like, you can always count on them to be there through thick and thin, I think. And that's what's kind of been needed this trip, hasn't it?

Well, it has, if you've been watching. I mean, you must be interested in. In the whole question of coaching and preparation, the sort of stuff that's been talked a lot about on this tour.

But it's. But the nature of sport is that if you lose, then you'll talk about everything that you wouldn't talk about if you win, if, you know, you know, whether it be basball, whatever the environment. Obviously they, you know, they went away after they lost the second Test. I think they had a week off.

Yeah.

So you might have enjoyed that, but in new set.

But it. But it.

Obviously, I. I'm so on board with that. And that's. But the thing is, once you get to that level and you're playing at that level, they should know what works for them. You know, not everyone will always agree with it, but that, you know, the. The most normal thing is if you lose a game, let's train harder. Yeah, that's what you actually thought, because that'll fix the problem. We're actually. That might fatigue you more and you actually might make you more bored and. And it doesn't often work. We had that in rugby that if you lose four, three games on the bounds, you go, right, we're doing contact every day next week. Well, then you just turn up to the game next time. Tired.

Yeah. And beaten up.

So you've got to find the balance about it and people won't always understand it and you've got to find what works for that group.

But is it a case if you lose? Kind of. There's a pressure on to analyze it and to learn from it and to do something about it. Do you think?

Yeah, but you've also got to understand, you've got to believe in your process of how you're doing things.

Right. And can that change? Can it be flexible?

Yeah, but you, I think you do have to sway with that. If something keeps cropping up, let's say drop catches or something, then that's something that needs addressing. Or you might go, right, we need to sharpen up on that. So we've got to shift it like, lads, I know we're here and we, and we're going to, we're here to have fun and everything else, but this is actually crept into our game and it's noticeable or whatever it might be. So you've got to move both ways, but you've got to understand the group and what they need to be motivated to go. But you, you can't all be fun and it can't all be work. You've got to find that balance and that's got to change.

Interesting. I've. I've brushed fleetingly into your world, Zara, with the question is. I know, I tell you what, I. If everyone's commentated on something they knew nothing about, I point you towards the Rio Olympics and dressage. Dressage on the radio, that's come on.

I mean, as tough as it comes.

I think that's hard. You see 2012 while you're enjoying yourself and winning. I was doing archery on the radio and I thought I'd been promoted when they gave me dressage, but then I looked, I'd never seen it before, but, oh, come on, all this walking, walking and stuff. So I have brushed into it, but it seems like a much more individual world, am I right? I mean, even when you're an equestrian team, you're still kind of looking after yourself.

Yeah, you're looking after yourself and essentially your performance, you doing your best, is going to make the team, you know, do even better. And I think when we get into a team situation, then there's a few more sort of team rules that go on or, or, you know, you need to. One rider needs to do that. Their skills. This then need to do a bit more of that. It kind of. It's a little bit more directed. Should I say? I'm not getting my words out, but. Yeah, but actually it is all about your individual performance. Performance and collaborating that together as a team.

Yeah.

So. But it's great. I love riding for Team gb. I loved being on a team and being in that team atmosphere because it's so different to your day in, day out, professional career and competitions and it's just, you know, where you want to be, where you want to aspire to.

On our top level, it is funny.

To sort of watch because obviously everything that they do is about herself, the horse. And then once you come to World Champs Olympics and you're on the team, you then have to bring four or five riders or five riders and two individuals or whatever together and you actually have to work as a team. And some people can do it, you know, it's like the Rider Cup. Some people can do it because they're built in that way. They want to play together. Whereas, you know, the thing that is always said about the Americans is they can't work as a team, but then come singles matches, they're fine because they know exactly what they have to do. That's the sort of same with. With the equestrian side and watching the four. Four of them on the team come together and someone might have to go first and actually be a bit of a. They call it a trailblazer, where you have to. There's a chance you might make a mistake or you. And you've got set up. Yeah.

Sport, though, as a sport, generally we're all very in it together, weirdly, because it's so. So many highs and lows when you're working with animals. We all, you know, relay information between each other, you know, oh, what are you doing here? Or what you're doing, you know, this combination. So we all talk all the time, so actually we can do the whole team thing, but your performance is very much individual, so. But we do do all kind of dig in together, you know, at competitions and at big. At the high level.

I walked that course at Rio. I thought, how are people seriously doing this? I mean, it's, it's. It seems absolutely. I mean, you know, there's someone hurling a ball at you out there at 90 miles an hour. You can kind of control that. But when you're on a horse and asked it to leap those enormous fences and the drops. Frangible pins. I know about Them now. Yeah, I have brought a bit of knowledge with me, but what a. I mean, that is a brave sport, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. But I think that, you know, like, we work with our horses day in, day out for that reason, to create a partnership where you can lean on each other in those situations and you know each other inside out and you know, you can go out and go, okay, this is the best, you know, plan for me. And that's how we're going to execute the whole thing. And it's, it's very much partnership and I think, you know, that's why we all get into it in the first place, apart from, you know, patting our nice horses. But, you know, they, they. When you can work in a partnership with a, with an animal like that, it is incredible.

Somehow the communication, that's what really gripped me about the. Yeah, the whole thing, how you communicate with a horse, you know, literally with dressage. I found it incredible. Is John Howard in there, by the way?

He is, yeah.

Do you know when he handed out those World cup medals.

I mean, I must have made an impression on me. When did you play in that?

I was like.

I did. It's been a while since I've seen you.

How are you?

Actually, I've still got a bit sore on my neck from you strangling me.

I've never seen. And I, I get on well with him. He loves, he does love cricket.

He does.

But the way he handed out those music, he was furious. But what a day that was for sport as well.

Yeah, look, it was incredible, I think, you know, and for it to happen the way that it happened and you know, going to extra time and then, you know, obviously golden balls at Johnny hitting that drum. Goal. It was always made.

Is it true that it was fed the wrong way or something?

No. So he'd missed two off his left. Drop is off his left. So then he decided to show off and hit one off his right to win it from four to.

Yeah, I mean, that's just.

It's sort of annoying, isn't it? I mean, I always feel sorry for Matt Dawson because he made that break and Dorsey's generally one on one, exceptionally good. And he didn't round the fullback. Just imagine if Dawson ran the fullback and he scored and then suddenly the hero looks like Gollum from Lord of the Rings. It's very different to Johnny Wilkinson. You know what I mean?

How many times have you said that story? I feel that's a well oiled.

You can't let it down like that it was a good story, but come here and beat Australia.

I know we were.

But we were.

We were lucky at that time. You know, I. I always say that I had never lost to Australia going that game. So it was. It was a weird sort of time of 99. Obviously we. We got dropped. We got drop kicked out by Yanni Deere. South Africa in the quarterfinals for our worst. Our worst result ever in a World Cup. And then it was. There was like anything after a World cup, there was a separation. You know, you Ben Clarks, your Victor Abogu's, your Jerry Guskirts, your field of Glanvilles, all these guys sort of retired and we brought in this young group and we went on that run from 2000 where I'd only lost four times. I think the final was my 35th test. I only lost four times.

Right.

So real confidence, which was quite strange for that time. And. And we were playing Australia. We never lost them. So where was the where? So from my point of view, and like, you know, Ian Balshaw, Josh Lucy, Jason Robinson, Ben Cohen, Steve Thompson, Ben K. From their point of view, half the team that was the norm was winning. So we didn't play well in that World Cup. But to get it done in the end was. And have it done in the way that it happened was amazing.

People will never forget it. That's what so lovely about sport, isn't it? I mean, you get these sort of golden moments. 2012. Yeah, I mean, that. What was that. What was the highlight of that one for you? I mean, the whole thing has seemed to be swept along. Not on the archery. Okay, if I'm sure. But just down the road, I could hear the cheers coming up from all of you because it kind of really built up, didn't it, that whole question with the equestrianism as well.

Yeah, it was great. Actually. We were all a little bit worried about the location, you know. Yeah, Greenwich, when we're building up to it. But actually for us, for like equestrian disciplines, it was amazing because more people could come and see it. More people than ever watched eventing, dressage and show jumping that ever would have because it was so accessible. Yes, it was. In such a great location. You know, there was people just packed everywhere. It was really like an incredible experience. The noise was unbelievable.

It was just for an equestrian event.

Yeah, it was. It was.

You know, the atmosphere of 2012 was just amazing. You think about it now, like, London's generally. I'm not doing London Disturbish, but it's grumpy. You know, people don't really want. During that 20, everyone was. The volunteers were amazing. Everything was incredible. The backdrop of where the dressage was. Yes, was, was. Was incredible.

The whole experience, just everyone, you know, having that many people in one place, I. I always love going into the dining hall in the, in the Olympic Village. And you got all those people, you know, from. From everywhere across the world, globally, you know, it was just amazing to see all those people in one place there for one reason, you know, nothing else.

Mattered apart from we think World Cups are big, but actually, when you do cover an Olympics.

Yes.

The sheer scale of it and all the different angles. You're still riding, by the way. Do you have a little bit.

Saddle up.

I've got a couple left and I'm trying to, you know, ride out slowly. But, yeah, few and be there for.

This is what you're supposed to say. Yes, I'm going for another Olympics doing.

This, but I've retired. I had. I thought from riding.

I was going to say from this interview. I thought you had retired.

No. Behave.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

Well, great to hear from Zara and Mike Tindall with Jonathan. You can watch clips of the best of the action from the fourth date on the BBC Sport website and app with our full highlight show on BBC Iplayer. Look out for the TMS Ashes debrief with Alex Hartley and guests, also available on Iplayer. And we're back on air from 10:45 tonight for the fifth and final day of the test and the last day of this Ashes series.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.