The Ashes: Head hammers down England hopes

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

One iced coffee, 99 cents, please.

For real?

No way.

Mmm.

One iced coffee, 99 cents, Please.

For real?

No way.

Mmm.

What a deal. Your new morning groove. Iced coffee from McDonald's, any size for just 99 cents till 11am Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. At DSW stores or@dsw.com Let us surprise you.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live group Bowls to Travis Head.

Big shot down the ground coming up the long off boundary. One bounce before he's got there. It's another fine effort from Travis Head in front of his home supporters. Absolutely loving it. Second hundred of the he goes down on his knees and kisses the Adelaide Oval pitch. After three days of this test match, Australia are in total control. England's chances in the game were slim after Australia dominated the second day. Today's play confirmed Australia's dominant position and the home crowd were treated to another hometown hundred. Travis head making his second century of the series after being dropped on 99. A difficult chance to Harry Brook in the gully. Australia 271 for 4 at the close, a lead of 356. Head 142 not out. Carey is 52 not out. Earlier Stokes and Archer put on 106 for the ninth wicket, but too much damage was done on the second day and England allowed Australia a first innings lead of 85. And they built on that by the close of play. And with two days left, it feels as if this game is only going one way. Phil Tufnall is with me. Glenn McGrath is with me. Jonathan Agnew is with me to round up the day's play. Well, firstly Jonathan, just sum up where England are in this test.

Well, that's tearing down both barrels unfortunately. I mean there have been glimmers of hope, haven't there? And the way that Stokes and Archer batted this morning gave everybody some hope. Could they have chalked off another 40, 50 runs? That would have again, you know, made it not simpler task for England, but it would have at least reduced that lead down to 40 or 50, but 85 in any test match, still a significant lead. And so for all the optimism, you knew realistically that Australia could easily build on that. They lost that first wicket. Quickly weatheralled. It just. It's been the case throughout the series where whenever England have just opened the door ever so slightly, Australia just slammed it shut again. And that was the case again today. There'll be moments. 149 for four. Think, oh, okay, that was when Green was out. A couple of quick wickets there. Quadra having been dismissed before. You think, o, hang on a minute, just a chance here. You know, they've shut the door again. Total lack of pressure. 68 overs. England bowled three maidens, two of which are bowled by Joffre Archer. Because they know they can just play joffre. 10 overs for 15. They play him, they'll score runs quite happily at the other end. Will Jax again. I mean, I don't, I don't want to pick him out, but you know, holding an end, he's going for over. Five and a half and over. The Australian definition of a spinner holding an end. Nathan Lyons, 2 1/2 and over. And he just. I don't know why Stokes keeps bowling him. I don't know why Stokes didn't bowl himself. There's clearly something there. Although we're told that he's fit to bowl, but he can't have been because he would have. He would have bowled. But quite simply run scoring is too easy at the other ends. There is nobody to hold that end for the seam bowlers who come, they come flogging in cast as usual, you know, runs. Runs through a brick wall for you. I thought tongue bowled quite nicely, but they resorted to that short pitched attack again which always looks desperate. And they did it at strange times. They did when Cary first came in. Rather than just bowling in the orthodox areas in which you do at a new batsman. Why on earth was Jack's bowling when Kaja first came in? Why didn't they bow? Pace at each ends for Kaja. Get him on that front foot. Doesn't want to get there. Get him nicking behind. No, no will have happened at will, Jacks. You know, there just strange decisions like that that haven't helped England cause. But Australia have just been head and shoulders above England. That's. That's all you can say about it.

Yeah.

The Stokes one is an interesting thing. We were told he was fit to bowl, but look it. Is he really. That. That's the thing is. I mean, he's Fit to be out there. But he's had a punishing first couple of days, didn't it? We all saw him with cramp yesterday evening, bottle a lot in the first things. He's taken on a lot.

This is where his, his position at the end of this series will be interesting. You know, how fit is he, how fit is he to carry on playing test cricket? That's an answer that only he can decide. But I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask because there will be the usual inquest. People will lose their jobs as a result of all this. It's inevitable because of all the controversy about the preparation. You know, there will be jobs on the line. What will Ben Stokes decide to do? I think that's going to be very interesting to see. Does he think he can see it through, through another 18 months to the next Ashes at home and you think that England would have a reasonable chance of, of, of winning that or will he decide, look, my body can't take this anymore, I'm off to the leagues.

Yeah, well that's certainly for the future, isn't it? We've got a bit of cricket to play before we get there. What, how did you seen today? T? I think we, over the years, you know, enormous amount of test cricket has been played and there have been lots of days like this where a team who are better than the opposition have a first things lead and they just nail it down. What else could England have done today?

Difficult. I tell you what I'm slightly interested in and this is selection. This is selection. Now everyone knows that Adelaide, you play a spinner, is that correct, Glenn? Pretty much bang on, you know, the wicket spins. I can understand, I can understand perhaps not playing a spinner at Perth.

Yep.

Perhaps at Brisbane, perhaps not playing a spinner and just a bit of part time. But to not play a spinner, a full time recognized spin bowler at Adelaide. I think there might be something just clogging up a little bit of selection here. I know the whole thing about Pacman batting and what have you but you know, and I'm not having a go at wheel Jacks because he just hasn't got the tools to do it, I'm afraid. But then I just want to know sort of like why, why, you know, why. Why is Bashir almost become unselectable after.

The second innings in this match? Jacks as well, more than anybody.

Yes, exactly.

Extraordinary. It really just totally backs up your argument.

Yeah.

And they, they've got a, a very part time spinner bowling who's had very little experience and he's bowled more than anybody. He's gone for five and a half and over.

Yeah, but then I just, I can't. Where's that thought process then? That hasn't then gone for that. I'm not quite sure.

Well, is it in the planning that actually the, the Bashir project if you like was a wishful thinking project and when push came to shove that you mentioned the word unselectable and it's quite a tough word, isn't it? But he's not playing, he's not being selected.

If you're not going to be playing here, I can understand, you know, bits and pieces, pieces and it's very young.

Very young, very inexperienced. It's like Bethel. I, I, I, I worry about Bethel who might get chucked into the next test match. He hasn't got a game yet. I mean he might be supremely talented and he might be the moment, it might be the moment actually that we launch, we launch Jacob Bethel. But you to play Test cricket you've got to know, you got to be comfortable with your own game. You got, you got to know what you can fall back or you got to have some experiences of being under pressure and so on to be able to use that as experience. Taking into a test match and yes, a 21 year old spinner with such little experience, that's a really tall order, isn't it to expect someone to do that. Well, but isn't it? I mean. Well, yeah, but how are you at 21? How are you at 21?

I think I was here.

All right.

No worries at all.

No, I mean it is young for a spinner.

Well it is mainly because of the body of work behind him.

Yeah, exactly.

Hasn't got a Celtic, hasn't got this, hasn't got that. So you've got nothing to rely back. I'd been playing second eleven crowd cricket was a couple of seasons for Middlesex.

And Harden John Embry looking after you and all that.

Absolutely. So you come in here okay, great big sort of like wide eyed and what have you. But you then have to fall back on what you got in the bank.

Yeah.

If he's not going to play here, I don't know why, why he was here, why he's here. So it's just perplexed me a little.

Bit why he's here in the first place.

Well, absolutely, I mean, yeah. I don't know. I mean even, even if they've looked at him and said well he didn't bowl very well in the warm up games and he didn't, he hasn't been bowling really well. Nets. No disrespect to Will Jacks. He would have bowled better than Will Jacks cuz he's a, he's a bowler. He's a bowler. You know it's in the blood, it's in the, it's in his bones.

How do you see it Glenn, looking in from an Australia perspective? The spinner issue that England have had here.

Yeah, it's an issue without a doubt. You know Nathan Lyon, you know he, he didn't bow well. He bowled two overs in Perth so fair enough. He didn't play in Brisbane so again I agree with tougher but here you've got to play a spinner, you know, a frontline spinner if you can or someone who's an out and out spinner because it was taking turn on day one. There's been a lot of talk about England's batting this series but really they don't look like taking 20 wickets. Yeah, they've taken 12 wickets in, in Perth, 12 wickets in Brisbane and they just can't build pressure and then they go straight to these bowling plans and fielding placements where they're waiting for the England, for the Australian batsman to get themselves out. That's not how you play test cricket. You've got to put the pressure on, you've got to keep bowling good balls and challenge them and when they make a mistake have to have the catches there to, to dismiss it. So how are you going to take 20 wickets? Fine. Think I will just chase 500 every game and we can get it. But if you can't take 20 wickets I don't know how you're going to.

Be number one in the world.

The field. The field placing at one stage to traverse head with what was the head five on the sort of gully to sort of point area.

He's still trying to get through there.

Yeah, it's just whacking it. Whacking wild.

Standing in a rifle range.

Yes, it is.

Just waiting for the ball to be blazed at you.

Yeah, exactly. This, you know, I mean that is. Listen, we've all had tough days on flat pitches and if you come off it as a bowler, Glenn, and you know this, you know and you take your boots off and you go well listen that was a long old day but I tried to hold my lines and I tried to hold my disciplines. I didn't get a bit of luck and things and well that's fair enough. But yeah to then sort of Go to that plan is just.

Especially when Kerry's just come in, he hadn't faced a ball and they went to the leg side short and Khawaja coming out. We all know what he's vulnerable at doing, what he's good at and what he's vulnerable at. That again was a glaring tactical error to bowl Will Jax at Kwaja when he's just come in. That's inexplicable.

Yeah, exactly. And I agree with Toughest. You know, you've had days where things don't go well. Twice in my career, we bowled all day and we didn't take a single wick.

Yes.

And I'll tell you, we put more pressure on the batsman those two days, but they were just too good than what England did here or have done this nearly this whole series. So, yeah, it's. They've got to find ways of doing and whether it's. It's tactical, there's no doubt about that. Is Ben Stokes, is he a good captain? Is he. Does he have good field places?

I don't think he's had a good series. I really don't. I think he was off. Off it in Perth. I, I think he's been off it here. But for reasons that we just mentioned, he, he. I think it has been a excellent captain. He manufactured three wins in Pakistan on those desperately flat pitches through really brilliant captaincy, actually, and incisive field changes. And that was Stokes at his best, but I don't think he's had a good series.

Field changings here. There's the first one. I will go to a short ball. Then what? That's. That's like not even go back to something. It's just, let's just stick at this.

I think sometimes it might be a little bit that you think to yourselves, well, I don't know whether the bowlers have got it in him to just hold it. So then you've got to be a bit funky. You're almost, you know, thinking to yourself, well, they're going to be getting cut and slash, so why don't we actually make a plan around your bad ball sort of thing or something.

No, you're right. Yeah. You have plan A. If your bowlers can't bowl to the plan, you can't go to plan B because they're not going to be able to bowl to that. So other bowlers up to execute.

Well, that's the point I raised earlier. How do England actually practice that short ball attack where they can't do it in the nets because the Batter wouldn't face it. They don't play any games so they can't practice it in that. Harold Larwood, everyone going back a million years was brilliant at bodyline because they practiced it in county cricket before they came here and did it. And they were incredibly accurate. It wasn't running in and bowling head high and overhead high bouncers like you see here, flogging the ball in. It's getting the ball into the body. It's being really, really accurate. You know, it was no coincidence that Woodfall got hit over the heart here in that famous game. But there was no protection.

No protection and you could put 20 bats, 20 fieldsmen on the behind, square on the leg side. So things are a little bit different.

But you've got to still bought it accurate.

If it's not working, you can't keep doing it. You got to look at what you. They've got to look to take wickets. You got to be out there being proactive. How are we looking to get them out? Oh, we're waiting for them to get themselves out. Like that's.

If you put yourself in that position of the bowler and you think really you want me to run up and go Bosch every ball and just bow into the dirt. I'm actually a better bowler than this. You can't help but think that you're.

Right and if, if that's what you're doing, run in just how are you going to get a wicket? You're just bowling yourself in the ground. You think, well, to be honest, there's I'm, it's a, a rare chance I'm actually going to get a wicket here rather than bowling that channel, getting it through, you know, mix a pace up, work on the ball, hopefully get a bit of reverse swing. Yeah, a few different things like that. Coming around the wicket wider in the crease. So you don't see much of that.

Stats of how many Australian bats. When I got out to it, I, I, I will sit down and try.

To work it out tomorrow.

And also not very many is the answer no.

And also I've just never. Were they, were they not watching Australia bowl yesterday which was just an absolute, you know, masterclass. They should be sitting there.

Here's a question though. Do England have the bowlers to, to pull off that plan of bowling, you know, the channel, whatever. Something Steve Smith said before the series about having them pick the right attack for the current Australian.

Listen, every professional bowler who's international bowler should be able to, yeah bowl on the top of off stunt. Otherwise what's he doing there?

Exactly? Is it too boring for them?

I don't.

The young next generation. I can't. That's boring. You know, bowl, you know, 99 balls out of 100, top of off stump with occasional. Oh, no, that's, that's too boring.

The point behind my question was if you look, if you look at cast, you look at Tongue, they're not really, they're not really off stump bowlers, are they? You wouldn't say that. You wouldn't say that before the series like we know wood, cast, tongue. They're not really that type of body. You'd say Atkinson probably is. You'd say that. I know what you mean, but.

I know what you mean.

But then you're saying he should be to do it. Whatever the captain says, bowl at the top of our stump, you bowl at the top of off stump.

It doesn't matter if you're that kind of bowler or not that kind of bowler, if you know what I mean. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's begged belief.

Just flicking through my notes, I, I think Cary was called a third man in Perth, which was a bit of a. One of those. But I just looking through this, I don't see any, any other Australian batsman who's fallen to that.

No, I, I just, I just saw England when we batted. Harry Brook sort of, you know, Root Crawley, you know, that, that sort of coming forward and oh, you know, all leave and it's that forward press. All I've seen Australia do is step back and just flog it through there.

Look there, there are lots of negatives. Yeah, there are lots of negatives. Should we just focus for. On the positive, few minutes on a, on a positive and, and offer Archer's batting.

Archer's batting and 31 in first class cricket. Yeah. Let's start with his batting. He's starting to show what he can do. I mean, you average 31 in first class cricket with the bat and you're a fast bowler. You're actually an all rounder, aren't you?

Yeah.

Yeah, you are. With an average of 31, the averages I think is eight in Test cricket. We haven't seen him bat like that in test cricket actually until this tour. And he's played really well there. That's, that's, that, that's good. And he's bowled really nicely, I think, I think the Australians do feel. I think we'll just see Joffer off and then we're going to fill our boots at the other end. I Think that's part of it. I mean he's bowled two of the three maidens, but he has bowled well. He's running hard. I would like to see him start like Mitchell Stark does. Bang with a straight on it. But that's just the way that he prepares himself. Okay, but I mean he's done well. He's had a good game.

Yeah, well, he did. And England started well today. They could have quite easily been 200 runs behind.

Yeah.

But you know, Stokes and, and Archer, they put that partnership together and you know that first session today you'd have to give to England.

Yes.

And then from then on it just sort of, as the day goes, it sort of just slips back into the. What's happened the rest of the tours so far.

Yeah.

Glenn, do you think Australia are just saying, well, that Ben Sto is not bowling. Just see off. Do you think they are saying that? See off Jo Archer and then we'll, we'll plunder the rest.

Well, they, they're saying SEO Archer, you know, if you, he's bowled to. What's he bowled? 10 over, two lots of five spells in 66 overs. Like I'd want a bit more out of him than that. But you know, even if you just bolt give him. The problem is you can't give him a three over spell where he just comes on and blasts because it takes him an over and a half or two overs to warm up. Then you get your three overs and then. So yeah, they be, they would have identified he's the danger, without a doubt. Okay, let's just see. I'll see him off. And then it says. Yeah, so it's a simple game plan.

Look at toughest, search for positives.

Oh, hold on.

How you felt. Archer's gone toughest.

I think he's done all right. Yeah, I think he's done all right. I think that that sort of criticism is at Brisbane, you know, when they were just knocking off 60 has just sort of stung him a bit and he's gone, well, hold on a minute. I think that was a bit harsh, you know, and a bit fair and I wasn't well, no, but you know what I mean. Yeah, he's going, well, hold on a minute. I'm going to show you I'm a bit more than that. And I think he's, he's done well. Listen, five. Five. He was, he was plotting through where we're staying and you know, because see, he was a bit weary, you know, and I said, well bulge off. And he looked up and, and so you should have five wicket in a test match is a, is a big thing. It's hard work to get fivers apart from this fella next to me, he used to doing pretty simply, but hard work to get fifers and, and, and prize people out on flat pitches when they're determined, you know, these are determined batters and so he should take a lot of credit for that.

The issue, well, the problem is if the rest of the series goes like this, Joffre might be saying, well, yeah, bugger test cricket. I'll just go and play the T20s, earn good cash. It's four, you know, four overs. I can steam in, I can go out and slog a few. It's, you know, this is, this, this is hard work out here. So why would I want to run in when the rest of the team aren't backing me up?

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R U B R I K.com.

Right, well, we've.

Been giving our reaction up here. Let's find out what they're thinking.

Who is it today?

Well, the England.

Well, someone Left.

On the first day, it was bowling coach David Saker. On the second day it was assistant coach and Marcus Drisco. Today is the spin bowling coach Jen Patel. He's been giving his reflections to Henry Moran this morning.

It started so well, that partnership with Joff and Stokes to continue on from last night, to get him, get us within 100 was probably more than we'd asked for. You know, in that situation, I thought, jo, amazing. You know, we get that early wicket and the hopes are up and obviously they put on a strong punch. I mean, everyone knows all that sort of stuff. But I think we took wickets to the right times. We just couldn't back it up with those clubs like Aussie did yesterday.

Why is that, mate?

Maybe it's a lot of time to do it, maybe it's a lot of heat, maybe it's all sorts of things. Maybe the wicked has flattened out. You know, it's one of those things.

It's just.

I don't think. I think we went through different plans. I think the boys tried to execute as well as they could, but, I mean, the way Travis Head's batted there is next level and he's probably showing us how to go about it.

There's a lot of people that said this was the defining match of this era of English Test cricket, and at the moment, it's going Australia's way.

I mean, a lot of people say a lot of things about a lot of different things. Well, the first game was defined as. So as the second, so as the third. I think every game of Test cricket we play, especially out here in Australia, you know, it calls for heroes and we haven't had them just yet, but maybe we have tomorrow and the day after.

But no question about it, this was the tour. That was the tour that was going to be the key moment for Ben stokes and Brendan McCollum. I mean, is that not widely accepted as part of the story?

I don't think that's from our narrative. I think that's everyone else's narrative. I think that narrative of being this is everyone else's story. But we're out here to try and win a series against Australia and take away the Ashes. And look, we've got a lot of work to get there to be to do that. We've got a lot of work to do from the start. Hasn't gone our way so far. We've got a huge mission in the next couple of days. But, I mean, this team's done some amazing things before. I've always said it Tomorrow and the day after to be pretty magical, I think.

What's the maximum you feel you can chase down? Because there will be a limit.

Oh, look, I mean, I don't know the maximum, mate. I really don't know. I don't want to put a number on there. Look, it's been a long while coming for a batting lineup like ours to put on a big score in the series. Maybe the next two days, is it. It's all about how we come out in the morning. I mean, the guys are knackered at the moment, right? As so if we come out in the morning, we put another couple on it. Look. 400. Let's say we can bowl them out for 420 and no one knows then.

Mate, this England team's job is simple now, and in some ways, the clarity of thought is something that can help.

Well, that's exactly it. You know, we split. Spoke about that this morning, or the coaches did exactly that. It's like, you know, maybe being backed into a corner is when we need to throw our most punches, and maybe that is tomorrow and the day after.

Ben Stokes looked devastated when he got out today. How's he doing?

I mean, he put so much effort into that innings, didn't he? And he sort of got ourselves into a position where, you know, we might have been able to push closer. And I think it was a good ball to get him out. But also I think the work he'd done the night before put him under, put him in a position where he's like, right, now, it's time to press on. It didn't quite work for him. I think that was where the devastation was. You know, look, even what he did yesterday was pretty strong and at different innings, for him to play than normal, he had to dig deep to find that. And we're thankful that he did because he got us within reach.

Is he fit to bowl?

Yeah, he is fit to bowl, from what we know. Look, he's just come off the park now, so we'll find out more, but from what we understand, he is.

Yeah, it's a surface that seems to be taking turn. Did England pick the right team, do you feel?

Hindsight's the world, isn't it? But look, I don't think Jackson's bowled particularly poorly. It's just having two set batters on a drawing wicket, on a wicket that may have flattened out for now and it may spin again later, as was expected. He found it very difficult, and rightly so. I mean, you're playing Test cricket in Australia against some of the best batters in the world. And he didn't quite get it right all the time, but I don't think he bowled poorly all around.

And just finally, as coaches, your job is one of coaching, but it's also making sure there's belief. How do you do that ahead of.

The rest of the game?

Well, that's exactly it, mate. I mean, that's part of our job is to make sure these guys believe in what they can do and how they can express that out there. And we'll get that message across as well as we can tonight and tomorrow morning, and. And we'll keep pushing these guys towards the danger because that's the only option we have.

Ash is still alive.

Who says it isn't?

Well, there we go. That is Jeetan Patel, the England assistant coach, although his emphasis is on spin bowling. What did he make of that, Jonathan?

I was wondering if they're going to wheel out tomorrow. Not sure who's left. That fellow drives the bus. Well, look, as we've said, every day it's impossible to find them, these people to come out and then try and, you know, talk sensibly and things that would, you know, they're not going to talk entirely honestly, are they? They've got to support their players. So they come out and say, yep, that's it, the Ashes are over, Jacks can't bowl, and that's it. I mean, they don't come out and say that, are they? So you just stick a microphone out there and ask the questions and then you just get the answers and you. They're not really worth discussing, I don't think.

No, you're probably right. And it is a question almost in that situation, what else can you say? Because, you know, you. You're on the verge of going, look at the score, three nil down. Look at. Look at the scoreboard.

Yeah. I think sometimes you've got to be honest, you know, you. I totally understand, you know, what they say and everything, and it is a very difficult thing to do, but sometimes I think you've got to be honest and occasionally you've got to say, well, hold on a minute, we might have got something wrong here, we might have got something wrong there. We're going to learn from it and we're going to try and put it right and, you know, and make things better. You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that either.

There's been a bit of that, actually, between test matches and Brendan McCollum and definitely. And Harry Brook as well, actually, because he was. He said I played a couple of horrible shots, didn't he? And Brendan McCullum was talking about the other day about we have been, haven't played as well and all that sort of thing and perhaps we do need to slightly adjust and probably Ben was saying it as well.

Well, let's see how they battle the second inning. They've got a lot of work to do still to, to bow Australia out. Yes, I'd like to see them come out and bow with much more discipline. Tomorrow they'll have a new ball in what, 12 overs or so. It's almost exactly the same situation as, as, as this morning, actually. New ball at 12 overs. Let's, let's see how they come out and then, let's see how they bat, you know, and then, and then we really will be able, in a situation of being able to put pass, pass judgment on, on that. I mean, at the moment, the game still isn't over yet. So, you know, there's always that in the back of your mind. But I mean it. Although it feels as if it's, yeah, going one way.

Something you picked up on during the day's play. Tougher. Where Jamie Smith stands. Do you feel he's standing too far back? There were a few balls that seemed to. There was one that actually did drop in front of him. There was a nick from Lavishade. Didn't cost England very much. Yeah, and you feel that he's taking it very low down.

Listen, I don't know too much about wicketkeeping, but I can remember old Jack Russell. Yeah, little snurters as we used to call him. You know, he didn't like to be scrabbling around his ankles all the time, having to come forward and everything. And we were talking about, you know, Jax as a, as a, you know, a full time bowler. You know, it's sort of in your blood, it's what you've been doing. And you know, I think as a wicket keeper as well, you're, you're forever assessing where you're standing a little bit. You know, it's just, it's just a subliminal thing that you're doing a little bit. It's just there because you've been doing it. It's your job and everything like that. And it's the same when they're sort of like you're between the wickets and you know, the engine and you know, I was talking to Ian Healy about it. You know, you're not, you're not plodding up the other end, you know, and the bowler turns around. About every time you turned around, bang, there was your cordon, you know what I mean? Ready for you. Go. Come on, pitch. Come on. You know what I mean? Instead of slowly getting into position. Okay. Come on. You know, so there is a little bit of that, but it's been tough. It's been, it's been, it's been tough day for England, you know, but there are just these little things that you start thinking, you know, is it ingrained in what they're doing? You know, is that, is there a belief? Because there's going to be a belief issue as well, you know, Jax, is there going, well, you know, I'm a part timer. You know what I mean? You're listening to cheating there. You know, we got to instill belief. But there are belief issues with people who, you know, it's not their number one thing they do.

Yeah, yeah. Well, Glenn, with your keeper, would you. Would you hate it if the ball dropped short of them or would you be prepared for them to stand up if it meant they dropped a catch that came up around their elbow or something or shoulder?

Well, no, the keeper is incredibly important and needs to stand in the right place and you know, where the slip stand depends on the keeper as well. So you want the keeper sort of carrying through nicely. You don't sort of falling short because then you'll get the one that edges and falls short. So yeah, the keeper's incredibly important and yeah, like that tough has said it. They keep everyone going. You know, that's the energy, the getting between the wickets. But yeah, if the ball's falling short and bouncing, no, they're far too deep. Look at Alex Carey. He's been up at the stumps and yeah, absolute masterclass. So this pitch has got not going to get any easier. It's going to go up and down, I guess you've got to stand where you think is is the right place. Some will fall short on this pitch, but you've got to back yourself.

Right, let's hear from the Australia camp now. Nathan Lyon has been speaking to Corbin Middlemass and the ABC team.

You got to give credit to England, they, they fought back with the bat this morning. We kind of expected that with the class of Stokes and then Archer player pretty good. Handy knock there as well. But the class of our guys, especially Travis and Alex here, here in the home hometown, it's pretty amazing to get us in this position, but I'm not happy yet.

Quiet.

You can be happy, mate. The Way you've played so far, three days of unbelievable, just relentless Australian pressure. It looks like you've just got better and better as a team as the series has gone on. But yourself, those two wickets early, has it spun or is it spinning more?

I think it's going to spin more. I think we're going to get like, look in the late, the way Jackson, even Rudy, were bowling there, I felt like there was more consistent spin, even though they may have been a tad too wide here and there. But I feel like it's going to.

Spin and obviously disappointed to miss out last game, but Jesus, you did miss a beat this game straight away. First over, straight on the money. Coming out all right?

Yeah, yeah, it feels. Feel very happy. Been really good progress through the shield cricket into the lead up to the Ashes. Obviously I've had an eye on this asterisk series for a long period of time and it's obviously taken me a little bit longer to get my teeth into the series, but that opportunity will come later in this game as well.

What about.

You mentioned the wicket there. Do you think it's going to keep.

Deteriorating like that because it was obviously really hot and oppressive conditions.

Maybe talk us through that. And then also, what do you think.

Will happen with the wicket?

Yeah, I think the natural wear of the wicket's going to be there. It still looks like a pretty good batting services at the moment, but if we can do the basics long enough for long periods of time, then hopefully we'll get the chances along the way.

Did I say you had the pads on too?

Were you. You were summons tonight? Watchman, yeah.

What is going on?

No comment.

Just quickly, I thought they might have gone after you a little bit, attacked you a bit more. You had. You had great plans, you bowled a beautiful line in length and you had the fields in the right spot to cover everything. Was that, you know, did you think they were going to come after you harder?

Oh, yes and no. At the end of the day, I want guys to come harder at me. Yeah, it's a lot more enjoyable, a lot more fun when. When guys are trying to put you under pressure and you hopefully trade a little, little bit more chances or a few more chances along the way. But yeah, we'll see how they go. I dare say they'll come pretty hard.

The second dig, Nathan Lyon talking to the A, B, C team now. Let's wrap things up. Zoltz is alongside me. What caught your eye statistically today?

Well, let's start with a positive for England. Joffre Archer. Making his his maiden Test 50, 51 is the second highest score by a visiting player batting 10 or 11 in Australia. He's now got 99 runs for the series already the second most for England in an Ashes series by someone batting at 10 and 11. And he's 18 runs away from equaling a record that stood since 1884. Five wickets and 50 in the first innings of an Ashes Test. He's only the fourth England player to do that since 1928. Otherwise not so good for England. Let's focus on.

So this is where the negatives come in. Well, yeah.

So will Jax being asked to do a job that he's essentially not trained for in his first class careers, as you were discussing just then, conceded 100 in both innings. The last bowler to do that in an Ashes Test, Shane Warne at the Oval in 2005. Warne had the consolation of taking 12 wickets in that game and bowling like the leg spinning genius that he was. The last England bowler to concede 100 in both in of an Ashes Test was Ian Botham in the final test of his legendary 1981 Ashes series. So normally if you're a cricketer and you're in a stat with Warne and both of them, you'd be quite pleased, but maybe not so much for Jacks in that particular stat. Travis Head with his fourth hundred against England, all of them in Australia since he came back into the Australian team as a reinvented player at the start of the 2021, 22 series. So four hundreds in the last seven Ashes Tess. He missed one due to Covid last time. Last seven in Australia. Four consecutive hundreds on this ground. Only the fifth instance in Australia of a player scoring centuries in four consecutive tests at a ground. His 142 not out is currently the highest joint highest second inning score score for Australia against England since Ricky Ponting's 156 at Old Trafford in, in 2005. And it was his slowest of the nine hundreds he's made since he came back for this sort of second phase of his career when he scored scored about 60, 65% quicker than he did in the, in the first 19 Tests of his career since he came back and scored that blazing 100 at Brisbane four years ago. But this, this, this century of 146 balls by 21 balls, his slowest of his last nine Test hundreds. So a restrained innings that just confirmed Australian dominance of this game. Aided by Alex Carey, the first wicket keeper ever in an Ashes Test to score 100 and a fifty in the same game. Also five catches in an innings. Only two other keepers in all Test matches have 150 and five catches in in an innings. Matt Pryor was one for England against New Zealand at Auckland in the 201314 series. Kerry needs just 13 more runs to have the highest match tally by a wicket keeper in Ash's history. No Australian keeper in any test against anyone had scored 150 previously. So a great match for for him and just sort of curious nature of the play today. 27 consecutive overs of spinning from this end of the ground and when England took those wickets and maybe had a chance, you know when this the second wicket fell, Australia's only 138 ahead. Third and fourth wickets fell quickly. Australia with 226 ahead when Green was out. There was still a glimmer of hope then, but England at no point really attacked with with their seamers. I was looking at the workloads of the bowlers. Archers bowled 77 overs in the series, cast 75. You compare that with England bowlers in the first three Tests of previous Ashes series. Jimmy Anderson in 201718 had bowled 130 overs after three Tests, 129 overs after three Tests of 2010 11. Graham Dilley 137 in 1986, 87 in that 1718 series. Broaden woke so both bowled over 110 after three overs. Darren Gough over 150 overs in the first three Tests when he bowled brilliantly for England in 1994 95. So the fast bowlers have not had a heavy workload in this series so far. But England chose not to attack with pace from both ends. Those key moments today when they had a final glimmer in this game that now appears to have been conclusively extinguished.

Okay, thanks very much Zoltz. Now you can watch the Best of the Action on the BBC Sport website and app now with our full highlight show available from 5pm on BBC iPlayer every every day of the series. For all our content from this series on BBC Sounds just Search Ashes and the TMS Ashes Debrief with Alex Hartley is available on iPlayer and BBC Sport.

YouTube the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

Hello, it's Ray Winstone.

I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, Histories Toughest Heroes. I've got stories about the pioneers, the.

Rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

And that was the first time that.

Anybody ever ran a car up that.

Fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you?

Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.