The Ashes: Smith grinds down England as the SCG turns pink

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Creeps in from around the wicket. Bowles is paddled up very fine coming down towards the boundary. He'll want three here. I think he'll get three. Listen to the crow. Smith taps his pass at his ground. Webster comes rushing back into the danger and he makes his ground. And Steve smith records his 37th test century on his home ground and receives a standing ovation.

So close of the third day. Australia in control of this test match at the SCG. They're 518 for 7. Really a punishing lead of 134 with power to add, especially with Steve Smith still there. He's got another test match 100 at close of play. He's on 129 and well supported by Bo Webster as well. He's 42 not out. Lots of partnerships from Australia today. England worked hard but they were outplayed. Travis Head making 163 before he was LBW to Jacob Bethel. Just a hint of England getting back into the match when they had Kerry caught at leg slip by Bethel off tongue for 16. It was 366 for 6 but the depth of Australia's batting has paid dividends for them. Cameron Green making 37 before he was caught in the deep. And then Webster came in and just aided Steve Smith. So Australia are back for more on the fourth day with the prospect, respect of a leader in excess of 150, perhaps even 200 as well. And then it does get problematic for England. Jonathan Agnew is here, Phil Tufnell is here. Glenn McGrath is here. Let's start with you, Glenn, on your peak day when the Sydney Cricket Ground was turned pink. In memory of Jane McGrath and the Jane McGrath Foundation. And we'll talk about that later in the podcast. Let's focus on the, the cricket and Steve Smith. I felt watching him earlier, he just looked so determined today. He just looked like a man who is destined from very early on to score 100 today.

Yeah, without a doubt. He went out there, he looked hungry. He didn't look challenged out there. He was focused and he batted at a good tempo. He put the bad balls away. He looked to keep the score ticking over. It was quite reminiscent of Joe Root when he scored his hundred in the first innings. And you look at those two guys and you see the hunger for runs and they're not going to throw their, their wicket away. And then you look at someone like Harry Brook that doesn't seem to have the same hunger as those two and that's why they both got hundreds in this, the first inning. So, yeah, you know, credit to, to Steve Smith when he's out there and he's switched on and he's focused, he's on a pitch that, yeah, it's pretty tough for the bowlers. He's a hard man to bowl to.

And there's just something about the way tougher Australia approach Test match cricket. It's different. Taught England a lesson today again? Absolutely. I think they've taught them a lesson all this series. Just the way they approach it, the way they think about it, you know, bowling line and length, top of off stump, don't leave there, you know, simple as that. Batting, if you get in, go big.

60S and 70s aren't going to win your Test matches.

Just, just a better mindset about the game. For me in the field, every catch has been taken. You know, we've been sloppy in the field. Just tougher, just tougher. And understand. Well, you said, we said it earlier, we've been out test matched virtually every day of this series. And it's not necessarily skill or, or talent. It's the, the way you go about.

It, I think discipline isn't it. Discipline So I think that's the word. You look at the batting, there's a sort of relentless discipline about Australia's approach to batting that England don't have. Apart from Joe Root, no one else really. I mean, Stokes, when he gets his head down, can do. He got a good ball. I'll go have a go at him in this Test match in particular. But there's just no discipline to the rest of it. And you just hope that they've sat down and watched again. The way to play, the way to play Test cricket. And that's as simple as that, isn't it? You're right about Smith. I just felt that particularly as Root got 100 yesterday. Yeah, he was going to get one today because they're hungry and they have this appetite for scoring runs, whereas England seems to get in and then play a bit of a flash Harry and get out. But that's not what, that's not going to win your Test matches. And it is surprising because the mentality of the batsman that I used to play with and you two tough with and obviously Glenn as well, is that, you know, these, these people, they get in, they don't, they don't give it away.

Haters hate the bowlers.

You might, yeah, because you might, you might get a good ball next innings and, you know, you're back in the pavilion for n or 10 or whatever. You get in on a decent pitch, you fill your boots and you really make the bowlers work hard because it might not be there next time. So that, that's, that's a, a discipline that England simply don't have. Apart from Joe Root. They don't have it.

It's too loose.

It's too loose.

You can't, you can't play Test match cricket loosely, if that's right, if you know what I mean. You know, and that's all three disciplines.

All the disciplines.

You've got to be tight, you got to be hardened and you've got to know what's in front of you. And England have just been a little bit slap dash. Let's look at England's attack. Tougher. So, you know, four main pace bowlers, the occasional spin of Bethel and Jax. What, what did you make of that? I think actually Bethel bow quite nicely. He looks like he can draw the batsman forward. That's a very sort of nice skill to have as a spin bowler. Listen, he hardly bottles it. He is a real part timer. But I saw something there that could be worked with for Jacob Bethel because he just has that natural sort of Ball that plops in around off stump or just outside and you can just sort of, you know, the batsman's first initial thought is to perhaps press forward, you know, perhaps with the jacks when he's a bit tall, the batsman's first thought is just to rock back and cut and knock him around the corner or if it's short, pull him away, you know what I mean? But he has that sort of, you know, it's a bit of dip and a bit of flight. I thought he'd bowled well today. He got his first wicket, you know, which is, which is fantastic. Something he'll remember and, and yeah, so he did all right. I thought he went well. What do you think about Glenn, about the fact that in this game that there's been so little spin and that both sides have just focused on their, their pace bowlers. Bethel was steady today, Jax. We didn't see bowlers much actually. We, you know, you think of Will Jacks as being England's main spinner in this game, but Beth bought a heck of a lot more ro mainly because the right handers were out there. What's your feeling? I mean, as a former pace bowler seeing so little, generally so little spin in this game?

Yeah, a little, little disappointing to be honest. I heard Steve Smith say at the toss, you know, we're forced our hand that the pitches aren't going to turn, we can't go in with the spinner. But what I saw today, you know, it's day three, I thought there was enough in there. There's a bit of turn, the foot marks coming around the wicket. You know, I think it's, it's going to take a bit of turn. So, you know, take two and sorry, four and five. You know, I saw enough from Bethel to, to see that you can challenge a batsman out there. So yeah, a little bit, a little bit disappointing in that respect. And yeah, you're looking at the rest of the bowling. It's just, you look at Stokes, Stokes can bowl maiden overs but it's like no one else can or no one else is prepared to or whether they can execute or the mindset is that they don't want to. They bowl. It's hard to see them bowling two or three balls in the same spot. Which is what test match bowling is bowling to a field, bowling to a plan, executing it. If you can't execute plan A, there's no use going to plan B or C. But yeah, it's a test match bowling, bowling maidens still challenging the batsman but building pressure. There's to be honest, not. There's been no pressure put on the batsman in either team really, with creating maidens. So I don't know, it's whether it's mindset, whether it's execution, probably a bit of both.

What have you made of Matthew Potts? Now you, when you played at Brisbane, way back when, at the start of your career, you had a. A naught for 100 day, didn't you? Something like that. And he's gone naught for one hundred and plenty actually so far in this match. Did you have sympathy for that or do you look at him and think, actually possibly he's not quite at the standard required?

Yeah, no, I was doing something differently to why I got picked in the first place. Everyone says you've got to swing consistent outswinger. So I started bowling outies and swinging the ball and had no control and yeah, finished with the figures of none for 100 odd in the match and that was it. So went back to why I got picked in the first place. Yeah, Potts has been a little bit, sort of said he should have been in the, in the series earlier, but a couple of times there, it just looked like he just completely lost his action. It just wasn't coming out of the hand. Well, he was falling away, the shoulder was getting out in front and it just looked like, you know, he was struggling to have that rhythm or just the ball coming out of the hand. Well. So, yeah, whether that's because he hasn't bowled for a while or because trying to get something out of that pitch, there was nothing there for him.

Yeah.

Figures of 25 overs, 141 runs, no wickets. He probably pulled it back a bit because, you know, he's going along at 8, wasn't he, at one stage or more? So, yeah, so it's. Yeah, tough day for him. But yeah, he did struggle out there today, Jonathan.

I mean, it was a, a hard day. I mean, Angan, you say fair play to them. They did stick at it. They were still. I mean, I suppose you could say it's the minimum requirement. You know, chasing the ball to the boundary towards the end of the day's play, two fielders going after it, you know, bowlers who just, you know, did keep on going. But when you come up against someone like Smith on a, on a decent pitch, I mean, it is a hard job.

They had a poor first session and they did rather pull it back, I thought. I mean, the first session at lunch, I really worried. I thought, you know, the wheels are off here and they're spinning off towards the Royal Sydney Golf Club or wherever it may be. You know, it just. It just felt like the heads had dropped completely. There was that terrible mess of will jacks on the. On the boundary, but anyone can drop a catch. But I think the worst thing was that England just really, really needed it. They really needed to. To strike. And down it went. And I mean, you catch that nine times out of 10. That was just the, you know, the worst start. They lost their reviews, of course. They were burned off. The last one burned off on the, on the. On the night watchman, which all seemed a bit. A bit ridiculous, even that one was.

Kind of agony, really, for them because cars was. He was right, wasn't he?

Because it was.

It was boot first rather than bat.

But overlooked the fact he was outside.

The line of the line of Ostom.

Yeah, I know, it was. It was disappointing. Stokes is Stokes's face. And then there are other things, you know, like, you know, yesterday before. Before England started bowling. We're chatting way up here. Say, right, new ball, Tongue. Stokes, please. Just they way and above. The two better seam bowlers on offer here. They're skillful, they bow well. No, of course, you had Carson Potts car. You know, he bowls his boots off, he goes in there. He's taking a lot of wickets, but he's expensive. Potts hasn't played for weeks. So they give them the new ball and Australia get away to. To. To a decent flying sort of style, don't they? Trying to get control back today. First thing, who opens the bowling? Stokes and Tongue. It's as if. I don't. I don't know, I. I don't know how you read what's going on in that dressing room at the moment. It's really odd. It's. It's almost as if. Because they sort of know that people are saying this should. It should be Stokes and Tongue that. As if they almost deliberately don't do it. There was that case here towards the end of play. You look around a really tired field. You look at Brydon Cass as they bowled his boots off. 23 overs, come flogging in. Where's he fielding? Extra cover. He's fielding at extra cover in the sunshine. He's been in the heat all day out there to the right. A deep square leg in the shade where he's been all day. Ben Duckett, who's done nothing. What happens to Kaas in the covers? One gets hit, pass him. You have to try and dive for it. Cramp in his Hamstring and he's lying there on the ground and he still didn't get moved. It's just things like that, you just think, why, why, why? It's just. I think myself, I mean, what. Also, I will say this. When, when England won in Pakistan and you were there three years ago, you know, with the Brook tour and everything else, they won three nil. Stokes was outstanding. Stokes, actually, his captaincy played a massive part in England winning that. I think he's been off it in this series. I think he's probably had so much on, so much noise going elsewhere, he wouldn't have had cast fielding there at the end of a day when they'd been in it all day. If he's really on it, you haven't seen the jiggling round, you haven't seen the strange fields, the kind of umbrella like fields that put pressure on the Pakistani battle. In that series, you either have an orthodox field or everyone's out of the leg side for the bouncer. There's been nothing in between. So I'm not sure that Stokes would look back on this series with any great affection, have felt that maybe he, he was quite as proactive as he has been. But no, I mean, if you want to be honest.

Do you think, therefore he's a, he's a captain who's thinking, I haven't really got what I need here to, to win here. And he's looked around and thought, actually bowling, batting, fielding that.

Well, I'm not sure that he had what. What he had to win in, in Pakistan, really. He just made it, didn't he? He. He had fielders right in the batsman's faces. He put real pressure on, on very flat pitches and short days. I just haven't seen that level of proactivity from him in this series. It's a massive series. I remember, I still flash back to interviewing him before the, before the first Test in Perth, so full of optimism. And I remember saying to. How will he feel if you fly back from Sydney and you've kind of got the urn. I mean, you haven't got the urn, but you know what I mean, You've won the Ashes and you can see him get a bit misty eyed. I say, oh, I'll be incredible. You know, that's our dream. That's what we're going to do. Well, I mean, that's, yeah, it hasn't happened.

Happened.

And I suspect that he does stew on things a bit. I think he, you know, you, you'd. Look, it's easy to look at Ben Stokes and think, you know, you see the tattoos, you see him marching about and you know, he can be a bit angry, can't he, out there at times, but actually he's a much softer, more thoughtful person than that in, in, in real life. And I think, I think he's found this tour really tough, but I do think that he's got the will and the competitive spirit to want to get revenge for this. Yeah, I think he, I think, I think he will be back in 18 months time, whatever happens to the others. And by that, you know, I mean the director of cricket and the coach and there's still conversations to be had about that, particularly if England do lose this one, which they, it looks like they will. Now England have to keep Stokes going because I, he's, he's the best captain they've got and they, you know, we've said it before, there's nobody else. And I think he has got the competitive drive to want to get this right back in England.

People will look at the score, 518 for seven and they might think, oh, no, same old, same old. And this wasn't. We've seen a few wheels off days in the past. This wasn't a total wheels off day, was it, for England?

No, I think they pulled it back. I think at lunch it looked like it was going to be, you know, this is really not going to be good. But once, once head was out and I see Bethel bowling, by the way, it just shows you don't have to have a spinning pitch and the ball spinning all over the place in order for a spinner to be effective. It's the change of pace, it's the change of field, it's the change of everything. That's actually what a spinner can bring. It doesn't have to be ripping past their gloves in order for a spinner to be effective. And I thought Bethel bowled nicely there. I mean, he's very much an apprentice, but he showed some talent.

Well, we're going to hear from him now. He took his first Ashes wicket today and he's been speaking to Henry Moran.

Long day in the dirt.

Kind of got slow rewards throughout, but yeah, you can't, can't fault anyone. All our fast bowlers charge in all day.

What's a day like that like as a player where you know you have.

To dig on all reserves, mentally and physically?

Yeah, I think it's kind of just those days that you have to just put in the pot as much as possible. Those days are pretty crucial in terms of how you win a Test match and when it's not going your way to just hold and hold and hold until you finally get your rewards. And I think we did that pretty well.

First Ashes wicket.

Not a bad one to get. Bowled a lot of overs today.

Tell us a bit about you as a bowler.

Most people will know what you do with the bat.

Yeah, yeah. Obviously it was nice to get Hedi out, but yeah, I don't know, just me as a bowler. I kind of try and think like a batsman. Yeah. And just kind play that way.

How important a role is that for.

You and what messaging you've had from management about what they see as your.

Role within the side?

There's not been a whole load of messaging around bowling. But I've always said, and people always know that I see myself as an all rounder and if there is a job for me to do, then I'm more than happy to put my hand up.

This is a big lead now for Australia.

What do you feel would be a.

Lead that would take England out of the game?

I think, you know, tomorrow we got to come and get them as quick as possible. I think any, any more runs that they get on on this pitch, I think it's going to make it. Make it tough for us to win this test match. So, yeah, I think we're going to have to come and hit them hard tomorrow, tomorrow morning. But, you know, we never say never.

What about this surface? Because we've seen the ball do a few odd things, but in the main.

It'S looked pretty good for batting.

Yeah, I think it's a surface that definitely favors a new ball for bowlers. There's kind of enough pace in it to score throughout, even when the ball gets soft. So I think it's, it's one of them pitches that as a bowler you have to be ready, really relentless in your length and just hold that for as long as possible. There's going to be a ball that does something for you in terms of a bowling point of view. So, yeah, you just gotta hold that length as long as possible.

What can you take from the innings of Travis Head, Steve Smith, Joe Root in this game for the batting unit to know how to play and play.

The pitch and the situation well?

I think Heady's a bit of an anomaly in terms of how he goes about it. I watch him from Gully and I see him play a cover drive and the ball's hitting the top of middle stump. I'm like, well, that's it. Interesting how do you do that? But yeah, in terms of the way Ruti and Smith played, I think it just showed once. Once they got past their first kind of 20, 30 balls on that wicket when it is most likely to get you out, they really put the bowlers under the pump and didn't really give them a sniff. So I think that's something for all of our batters to take into that.

How tough has it been for you.

Having not played a huge amount of.

Cricket in the last 12 months, to get out there in the heat, heat of Ashes back?

I've enjoyed it. You know, you're sitting on the sidelines just hoping for. To get the nod and yeah, I felt ready. So it's just been nice to be out in the middle trying to. Trying to contribute as much as possible and yeah, just add to the team.

No one means to drop catches is the old saying.

But if you have gone down again.

Today, what are we putting this down to?

I don't know really. It's part of the game. You know that saying, catches win matches, but catches do get dropped. Yeah. And it's just one of those things that you look in the grand scheme of things and it does make a big impact, but it is part of the game. No one likes dropping a catch. No means to drop a catch. So, yeah, not really sure.

Just finally, this has been a long, hard tour for England. How are the energy reserves within that.

Trip, the dressing room, not just physically.

But also mentally ahead of what is.

Going to be a tough fight in this game?

I think. I think obviously the, the bowlers are kind of, especially the guys that have played all five tests, mainly Carson and the skipper. I think they're gonna have to work hard in this, in the, this next period to, to try and win us this test match. But, you know, this Test cricket is gonna be. It's gonna be tough for those guys. But yeah, it's is kind of one last push tomorrow in the morning and then hopefully bowling to victory in, in the day five.

Jacob, thanks for your time.

That's Jacob Bethel speaking to Henry Moran, trying to put a brave, positive face.

Spoke very well for, you know, in a very difficult situation, didn't he? I thought, you know, he, he laid out there what he going to have to do. He wasn't hiding behind anything in particular. I thought it was interesting the way he talked about learning from watching the more senior batsman play. I mean, I think he's got a big future, I must say. But he didn't shy away from accepting. England got a Big challenge tomorrow. They've got to get out there and get those wickets.

How big is the challenge for England from here?

Yeah, 134 already still batting to come. There's no sign of Smith relenting. You know, I think, you know, England have to do well to survive tomorrow. I think you're just looking at the body language.

They survive tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah. It's all a cricket tomorrow night. Well, there won't be 98 day. We haven't. But, you know, it's. It's a. It's a full day plus, plus a half hour. If Australia get a lead of 180, 190 beyond, it's going to be very tough for England.

Yeah, those bowlers are going to be roaring in and bowling decent lines and lengths probably as well.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Yeah. So a stiff target or tall order ahead for England. So 134 runs ahead. Australia had two Australia century makers today, Travis Head and Steve Smith. Smith back for more tomorrow. He's been speaking to Adam Gilchrist on the host television station.

Another perfect day in the sunshine here at your favourite ground, the scg. Congratulations. Thank you. It was a nice batting out there. Pretty good wicket. So, yeah, nice to come off the back of what was a pretty good innings from Travis Head. He played beautifully yet again and obviously started my innings with him. And when you're batting with him, they forget about you a little bit, the way he's going at the moment. So, yeah, I was able to get into my work, get the pace of the wicket and, yeah, get into my work from there.

Yeah.

Maybe not at your fluent best at the beginning. It is that sort of pitch where it looks like it takes a little bit of time, but by the end of it, you found your hands, your feet and you spent half the time on your back rolling around in the dirt at one point. No. Yeah, it was a nice wicket. So, yeah, obviously they came with a few plans with the shorts up for a bit and, you know, I was just trying to get out of the way and get off strike and things like that, so. Nah, worked out well today. A couple of nice partnerships. Greeny, I thought, was batting really nicely and Slug came out and batted beautifully then as well. So, yeah, hopefully we can put a little partnership together in the morning. Get up over a 200 lead and the wicket start to play a few more tricks. Second only to Bradman for Ash's test match hundreds. You went past a few great names today. Greg Chappell, David Boone, Alan Border for runs on this ground Only behind Ricky Ponting. Are you aware of those names and those legend players that you're going past? No, I'm not. I just love batting here. Obviously, it's my home deck. I know the ground really well. Yeah. When I get in here, I really like batting here. The pace of the wicket sort of suits the way I play and. Yeah, just love playing in front of this crowd. Yeah, and they love seeing you play one last one. All the unique mannerisms were on display today and it makes it so entertaining to watch. Is that a technique for you, for your own personal concentration? Does it keep you switched on?

I don't know.

I guess so. It just happens naturally. I don't know if I'm doing it. Yeah, it just kind of happens when I'm out there. And I think when I'm doing all those things, it probably means I'm in a really good zone. So hopefully we can see a few more of them. Yes, I think everyone here hopes so, too. Congratulations, mate. Thank you. Well done.

So Steve Smith is talking to Adam Gilchrist. Back for more tomorrow. 200 plus.

Well, it will be, won't it? I mean, why declare? You know, they. They'll just keep going and score whatever runs they can in his first innings and really pile the pressure on England. He's an extraordinary player. I mean, he plays sometimes the most beautiful shots in perfect position. The COVID drive particularly is a really good shot of his. At other times, he's the ugliest batsman I've ever seen. Extraordinary shots.

What a roly Polish shot he was playing today.

He's.

He actually.

A short ball. He actually served it with a. A vertical back to mid on. It was like a tennis shot. He gets himself in. In extraordinary positions. I think he's incredibly frustrating to bowl at, and not just in terms of the positions of his batting, but all the fidgeting, all the messing about. You know, he asked Brydon cast to turn his sunglasses around, but he's feeling a bit off because there was a.

Reflection and he called a wide as.

Well, all that stuff. And when he doesn't play a ball exactly where he wants, he then plays it where he should have played it. So the bowler knows, actually, you're going to go through there next time. Cool. I'll tell you what, he. He would wind you up as a. As a bowler, but he's. He's astonishingly effective, obviously. 37 test match hundreds, and he's still got power to add tomorrow.

He's one of those players that, I mean, you can't help but admire. But as an England supporter you just can't wait to see the back of him eventually.

No, and, and, and, and from a bowling perspective. But he's, he's mapped it out there, hasn't he? We know exactly what Australia are going to do. They've got the resources to do it. I thought Webster played nicely tonight. Actually thought he looked a good player perhaps ahead of Cameron Green who again got, got, got started, got 37, then got himself out. But I thought Webster looked a nice player. But yeah, England are going to be really under pressure when they come to bat tomorrow.

Thanks Jonathan. Let's have a look at the day statistically. Salts. Where do you want to start on Steve Smith or we can, we can.

Start with, with Smith. As we heard there, it's his 13th Ashes 100. That put him ahead of Jack Hobs in second place behind Bradman's. He also overtook Jack Hobbs in most runs in England v Australia Test cricket. Into second place behind Bradman. Smith. Hobbs 3636. Smith past him today. Bradman over 5000. Still untouchable. Travis Head, his superb series continued his third century of this, of this Ashes series and a second 150 plus score. And he's a fifth player in an Ashes series since 1948. Have two one hundred and fifty scores in the same series and only the second Australian since 1948. Arthur Morris did it in 48. Steve Waugh in 1989, the only other Australian since then. Three England players have done it in that time. Alistair Cook in 2010, 11, Michael Vaughan eight years before that and David Gower in the home 1985 series and openers with three hundreds in an Ashes series since 2002. 3. Only Alistair Cook in that tour in 2010-11 has done that. So yes, those Australia's two leading batters dominating the scorecard. A very odd looking scorecard. No one's completely failed yet. Carey's 16, the lowest score and a succession of partnerships. We've had seven 50 plus stands in this innings. The first five all 50 plus, then a 27 stand. The one before Carey's dismissal. Green and Smith added 71 and Smith and Webster have now added 81. It's only the second time in the history of Test cricket that a team has had more than six 50 stands in the same innings. India did it at the Oval in 2007, they had 850 plus stands in that innings. They got 664 against England on that occasion. So we still haven't really seen many massive partnerships in this series. But Australia, as they did in Brisbane when they got 511 with no hundred stands here, they had the highest, down 105 and well past 500 already. And I mean, it's been such a curious series. In the last Ashes, Australia didn't have a single score below 220 or anything over 420 in this series. They'd have. They've had three scores below 160, but now two 500 plus scores as well, which I think, again, says a lot about. We talk about the techniques of modern cricket. When conditions are difficult, teams tend to collapse rapidly for quite low scores. And when conditions are good for batting, teams generally dominate more than they did in the past and score quicker over four and over in this series. Australia's run rate in this series around about 4.2 per overs, one of their highest ever in a Test series.

Ok, thanks very much, Andy, for all our content from this series, including Andy Zaltzman's daily quiz. Just search Ashes on BBC Sounds. And a reminder, the TMS Ash's debrief with Alex Hartley is on BBC Iplayer and the BBC Sport YouTube channel. Coming next, Eleanor Oldroyd finds out more about the Jane McGrath Day at the SCG.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

Because it's day three of the Pink Test. It is Jane McGrath Day and we are remembering Jane and her legacy, and particularly the McGrath foundation, which is a celebration, really of the positivity of the work that Glenn has done in the last 20 years in honour of Jane and to support the people of Australia in their cancer journeys. And Glenn is here with me and Emma Agnew, wife of Jonathan, is here too. And Emma has a particular reason to be marking this day in a very special way. But, Glenn, first of all, just tell us about what today means to you and how it's felt so far.

Yeah, I think it's the 18th pink test, 21st year of the McGrath Foundation. It just blows me away sometimes just to think what's been created and to see everyone roll up today in pink. It is very, very special. I've got my family here as well, my three children and James, Holly and Madison. And they've seen, I think the Australian public have seen the older two children especially grow up over, over that time. But, you know, Jane, Jane was English, she was a beautiful person. And, you know, to think that what she went through and the impact of that is now having is quite amazing. And something that was always important to Jane was whatever you do, you had to enjoy. You had to have fun doing it. I know Tracy says that we try to put the fun in fundraising, but, you know, and that's what it's about. It's about life and it's about getting out, enjoying it and, you know, it's a celebration this. This test match and this day, it's a celebration of life. I think of hope of getting out there, enjoying it and remembering fondly our loved ones who aren't with us anymore and trying to respect them by living our life as well as we can. So, yeah, it is a positive day. There's a lot of emotions, but we try to look at it from a positive perspective and enjoy life and celebrate life.

And, Emma, you came here to the Pink Test in 2014, I think, wasn't it on the Ashes tour 12 years ago? And you had a very particular reason for wanting to be here today for this test. Explain a little bit about, you know, your story. Yeah, absolutely. So when I came in 12 years ago, it was just a lovely day. I met Glenn and, you know, had a brilliant day wearing pink, obviously. And then eight years ago, I was not so lucky. I was diagnosed with breast cancer, fortunately, very early on. So although I had a very aggressive breast cancer and I had a very grueling treatment round, I was lucky enough to get through it. And Glenn said to me, if you get through it, next time you come back. I think you said, when you get through it, then you'll come and you'll come on the pitch and be part of it. And obviously, four years ago we couldn't because it was Covid, but here I am today. And, yes, the emotion was amazing out there because we saw this great parade, didn't we, of people who've been affected by cancer in different ways, and you were part of that. So what did it feel like in your glorious pink dress that you wear? Well, obviously, but there were all sorts of people out there and we stepped through a sort of a curtain towards the boundary edge and you could feel the love from the Stams and everyone there had a story to tell. There was an old lady of 83 who I was chatting to, called Margaret, who's a fundraiser through trotting, harness racing. There were two men who are all part of the ambulance service, or the pickup service, I think they called it. Everyone there had a story. We've got a friend in the crowd called Sarah. She said when she saw me walk out, she just burst into tears because her mum died of cancer, you know, so everyone has a story to tell and it just. You feel it when you're out there, not in the heat. You feel the love coming through and the clapping and the cheering and I felt very privileged.

It is amazing. I hear stories every year of how the emotion of being out there. And one time I sort of walked back in. I remember a couple of times I have, but this one time I walked back in with everyone that was on the ground, walked into the rooms where they've gone, and the emotion, it was like, you know, I remember winning a World cup and coming in. The emotion. And it was similar, the emotions that people were. They were celebrating. There was tears, there was laughter. It was. It just. It took me by surprise a little bit, just how much this meant to everyone else. It's a big day for me and you get caught up in the emotions, but it also. It's a. It's a massive day for a lot of people at this ground and that's why they come here. And to be involved in it is. Yeah, it's an amazing. It's just so many emotions, isn't it?

It is the steward who sort of guided me into. I had no idea where I was going. I was wandering around aimlessly and Jonathan was no help whatsoever.

Just normal, isn't it?

Just normal, yeah. Normal service. But she said to me, oh, are you really going on the ground? I said, yeah, yeah, going there. She said, have a wave for my sister who didn't make it three years ago, and. But she said, go out and, you know, that's what you. You do. You wave and you clap and you are celebrating. I know I was lucky, I was very lucky and lots of people aren't as lucky, but. And it is about celebration and living the moment. It really is. And the money that's raised during this Test match and during the year as well, because this is not just for five days every year, Glenn does such important work to support people who are living with cancer in Australia and not just breast cancer. Now you've extended it to cover all cancers.

Yeah, exactly right. And I know firsthand the difference having a cancer care nurse does. When my late wife Jane was first diagnosed, there was no support there. We went through the journey ourselves and she had incredible strength and got through it. Then when she had the recurrence, all of a sudden there's a breast care nurse there. And the positive difference that made in our lives, but especially Jane's, was incredible. And we soon realised there were not enough of these amazing people out there. So that's why we launched McGrath foundation, raising funds to place originally McGrath Breast Care Nurses out there. Now, as the federal government came to us last year or the previous year and asked us if we'd now take that support to anyone going through any type of cancer. Because there's a lot of people out there that have no support at all with the type of cancer they have. And there's got to be equity. You shouldn't be discriminated against by what type of cancer you have to what type of support you receive. So yes, I know firsthand. And so that's been our goal for the last 21 years. And we have 343 McGrath Cancer Care nurses out there. They've supported around 170,000 families across this country of ours. But the fact is, one in two people in this country and probably around the world will get a cancer diagnosis. And when you think about it, in those numbers, there's a lot of people in Australia that are going through a cancer diagnosis and they have no support. There's no cancer care nurse there with them. Especially in rural and regional country areas. It's tougher again. So that's why we're looking to raise money here to place those nurses and provide that support.

And when you get the diagnosis, as you know, Emma, it's a terrifying moment to hear those words that nobody wants to hear. And what kind of support did you have and did Jonathan have going through the. Your diagnosis and then your treatment after that? Yes, it's the family as well. So yes, you hear those words. You know, I went in for my checkup and everyone said, oh, you'll be fine. And of course not everybody is fine. And I wasn't fine. And I was really quite calm about it. I don't know why. Maybe because Jonathan was devastated because I do think the people who aren't being treated really struggle as well. And I remember him saying, I'm finding it really hard because they're addressing everything to you, Emma. And he is quite used to being the center of attention in our family. But I know what he meant because they spoke to me because funnily enough, I was the one with cancer. But he needed the support and were times I would come out of treatment and he had had a nurse and he'd wept all over her because he, while I was in being treated and felt very safe and cocooned, he and the children felt absolutely at separate. And that's where that support really comes in.

Yeah.

Now the support, it's not just for the per. It impacts the whole family, doesn't it? And I guess From a male perspective, our job, you know, we're here, we protect our family and you know, when Jane was going through it, all you can do is support them. You can't help them with it. You can't, you know, you can't take the cancer, you can't, you know, have the cancer yourself. So you feel a bit helpless sometimes with how much you can do and how much you can give. But I know our nurse, all of a sudden there was someone there to help. You know, the fear that's associated with the word cancer to start with sometimes sends you, your brain into overdrive. And to have someone there who knows what's coming up next can help you make informed decisions. Even just a shoulder to cry on. Jane always explained it as her nurse allowed her, you know, when she was first diagnosed, you've got so many questions, so what do you do? You jump online. There's so much information, so much misinformation online. She got off feeling worse than she did beforehand. Having our nurse Alison, who's actually now One of our McGrath nurses, which is, and I always say this is this person here, this is where it started from Alison. But having her just put Jane's mind at ease, knew what was coming up. Someone had come along, help make informed decisions, to really have a plan to focus on. So she knew what she had to do, what we had to do. So when she came home she could be herself. She wasn't just the cancer patient, she could be a mum, a friend, a wife, she could be herself. And that was the greatest gift and I still think it's the greatest gift you can give back to someone, give themselves, their life back to them while they're going through something pretty horrible. And they're amazing people and really proud of our nurses.

Absolutely. I would completely second that. The first thing they said was don't go on the Internet, don't be Dr. Google because you will only read quite negative stories because you go onto forums and things. I'm sure they help some people, but actually just stick, stick to the plan. This is the plan. They tell you what you need to know at the time. They don't give you the long term plan. They say this is what you're doing for the next three weeks, this is what you might feel, this is what you can do to help. That's it, we'll get through that three weeks, then we'll go on. And, and even now when I go for my checkups twice a year, there is still a nurse in with either my oncologist or Monica, my amazing surgeon, who I named my wig after, actually. She was amazing. But, you know, there's somebody there just in the background. Cause I always say, will I ever stop this fear when I just come back? And they said, no, but it's right. Just feel a bit of apprehension. So you're on it.

Yeah. And the other side to that is I always say when you're waiting for results, you've gone for scans, all of a sudden you're in no man's land, you can't do anything. Whereas even if you get a diagnosis, that's not good. Okay, now we can focus, we can come up with a plan. But when you're waiting, it's a horrible. It's a horrible verb. And they're there to help sort of through those times as well.

When you look at the 21 years now that the Australian cricket community has supported the charity, supported you and your family as well, and you look actually at the way that we've developed similar days in England as well, with the Ruth Strauss Foundation. Red for Ruth Day at Lourdes and Bob Willis and blue for Bob at Edgbaston as well. What do you think about this sport, this world, this community that we're all part of?

I think that's the beauty of sport and especially of cricket, how it brings people together. You look around the world at the moment and there's a fair bit negativity and horrible things happening. You look at what happened in Bondi a while back there, and just a horrendous thing like this. I look at this day and it brings people together. You know, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, it brings people together. And, you know, I've noticed that probably more this, and whether it's just me, who I am, my stage of life, but even just the way people come up to me, all the interviews I've done, the journalists, the questions they've asked, there's a certain amount of positive respect there. They're not looking for an angle or a bit of controversy. It's all. And it's. It's actually such a good feeling. The vibe around the ground, the goodwill, I think, is what people need these days. And I always say if, you know, if. If you can do one positive thing each week for someone else, this world will be a far better place. And, yes, I wish six days a week, I wish nobody knew who I was, but that one day where I can actually.

Yeah.

Make a difference or give back. As you know, I'm happy.

Happy to do it's something to be.

Very proud of, Glenn. It's a privilege to share it with you and I'm sure Emma, you feel the same as well. Totally. And I just. That positivity of, you know, when you are better and you can travel, you'll be here and it, and it was there, it was one of the, the things I hung on to and, and I woke up this morning feeling really lucky to wake up and thrilled to be coming. So thank you, Glenn.

Oh no, I'm glad you could make it. And we've spoken about it for a few years, haven't we?

We have.

You know, it's funny how life turns out, you know, Jane was English and we've started this here. You know, I've spoken a lot to Straussie, especially in the last, what few years since and I knew Ruth reasonably well and Ruth was Australian, so it's quite ironic how Straussie's English on Aussie. Our wives were English and his Aussie and what's been created at Lords and his at the scg, pretty special.

Glenn, Emma, thank you very much.

Well, that is Glenn McGrath and Emma Agnew talking to Eleanor Oldroyd. And we had a lovely and moving email from Jim Press who says today is a special day. For many years, my wife Susan has always wanted to visit Australia. As a serving military man, it's always been a bit difficult to plan too far ahead for big adventures because we're on at the mercy of international events. So we decided that when I hit retirement after 36 years in late 2025, we'd make the trip as it aligned with the Ashes tour. Moreover, it was the Sydney test that she wanted to come to and specifically the third day. As a historian, lawyer and teacher, she was unbending in advocating for women's rights and health. And so the long term plan was set. Here I am in Sydney on the third day, but without Susan. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2022 and died on 29 June this year. She received incredible care from doctors and nurses and volunteers and friends and strangers throughout her inspiring battle. I felt that I couldn't make the trip but was convinced by friends and family to come to support this great cause and to honour Susan. Coincidentally, I'm staying with my friends Andy, who moved to Sydney 15 years ago. I was a classmate of Susan's. His wife and children have been so supportive along with everyone at home. I want this to be a positive experience today. Although I cannot help being emotional. My advice to everyone is that it's great to plan things, but sometimes life might just get in the way. So seize the day sometimes. Follow your heart and thank a doctor or a nurse when you see one. I might be here on my own, but I'm certainly not alone. To everyone affected by this awful disease, including friends and family, keep believing, keep positive. Accept cancer as part of your life, but not let your life be part of cancer. That's from James Press, who's here at the SCG today. So thank you very much for sending us that email.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Well, it's certainly been amazing seeing the SCG turn pink today and we send all our best wishes to all those affected. You can watch the best of the action on the BBC Sport website and app now with our main highlights on the BBC iPlayer, available every day of the series from 5pm we're back on air tonight at 10.45pm ahead of the first ball at 11 o'. Clock.

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