TMS Top 10: Ashes Characters

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Hello, and welcome to the very first episode of Ash's top 10 on the TMS podcast, where we'll be ranking the greatest male characters to have ever graced the Ashes here or in Australia. I'm Ishigura and I'm joined by two people that know a thing or two about cricket and have been involved with or seen their fair share of Ash's drama. So, Alistair Cook and Jonathan Agnew, hello to you both.

Very nice to be here. Isha. We have some fun with this.

We certainly are. And you're both looking very dapper, I have to say, in your suits.

Yeah, I've tried very hard to dress for radio anymore, Richa.

Okay, well, it's a great start to the very first episode of Ashes top 10 with you two. And what a category we have to start as well. The greatest Ashes characters whose personalities have shone on the pitch in the most high pressure games. And I feel you two have just about enough experience of watching and playing in the Ashes. So this should be fun, Alistair.

It should be. And I'm now looking at the lists. I'm actually really disappointed at you guys. I'm just raring to go at you, but I just.

I just need to put in a caveat here because you might look at these names and go, well, hang on a second. There's loads. There's loads of big characters that are missing.

Yeah. Where's WG Grace? Is he not there?

So from a generation point of view, we're pulling from 1990 onwards, no WG Grace.

No.

Donald Bradman?

No.

There's a lot of characters that aren't on this list. So without further ado.

Shane Warne off only two or three paces. He bowls and Gatting is taken on the pace. Bowls.

Out comes both.

He bowls to Alderman. I bowled him and England have won the hit. It has hit.

It has hit from mid on. Now he's pounting out. England think they've got him. Brett Lee. It is in now to Flint off. Flint off.

Heaves at that.

He's gone over the pavilion. It's an enormous six. My goodness me. That you won't see a bigger six in a hundred years. Here we go. Dawson comes up and bowls to War, who drives and drives through the offside for his hundred. And in comes Pat Cummings from the. He bowls to Stokes, who hammers it for four.

Warner 97, waits for swan cuts and he's going to get four.

I think here it's going to be his hundred. Yes. The ball's gone behind square on the offside. Here's Broad coming in and bowling to Voges. Oh, he's brilliantly caught. Brilliantly called. Shoulders hunched forward, he bowls to Mike Gatting. On the next up, he's bowling middle stump. Hughes is mobbed by his Australian teammate.

And he gets to 200. That is a wonderful milestone for Kevin.

Federsen and he is full of joy.

Shane Warne, Ian Botham, Ricky Ponting, Freddie Flintoff, Steve Waugh, Ben Stokes, David Warner, Stuart Broad, Merv Hughes, Kevin Peterson. Now, when we talk about character, I guess we're thinking about things like personality, obviously, how they performed on the field, their grit, their resilience. But also box office moments, players that could create magical moments.

Yeah, I think someone that you just would. Would rush out of the bar from to go and watch, wouldn't you? Whether he's batting or bowling, that's kind of a character for me.

I've judged mine on a bit of both, but also I. I had to judge it on my experience of it as well. So some of my. You'll see on my list, the guys slightly lower down the list I had less to do with.

You're making excuses already.

No, not at all. I think my list is right.

Okay. Should we start with you all?

It'd be very competitive. If I can start now.

It's coming out already. I'm going to start with you, Alistair. You're 10 to 6.

10 to 6. I've gone merve Hughes to the bottom. I just. He was slightly before my time. I mean, I Do remember him bowling? Kind of. Whether that's just to do with highlights. The big tash, the chain banger and just basically swearing at the English batsman in particular, Graham Hick. That's all I really remember.

So the eight wickets at Lords don't really count very much.

Well, I don't remember it. So that's why you've asked me for my list. So that's why I'm going for him there. Sorry, Merv. Obviously I've met him a few times. Really nice guy. But you're number 10. I've got Warner number nine.

Is that because you don't want to say that you just didn't like.

No, not at all. I love battling against him because we could not be more opposite players. But I'm just talking about the character of him I'll always remember will be Stuart Ball's bunny. If you ask me, like on this list, you asked me for one little bit of it. So I don't think he doesn't quite have the same stories as the other guys. Everyone else on. Here you go. There's lots more stories about him. So that's why he's number nine. Steve War again, you know, he was. He was what I suppose the true Australian grit and character looks like with his baggy green all ripped and, you know, the hundred with a. With a one calf and all that kind of stuff. But again, I've had less to do with him, so I can't. That is the reason he's number eight. I've then gone Ricky Ponting. He edges Steve Waugh because I played against him. I've had more experiences on the pitch, you know, with a few. A few occasions we played against each other. Unbelievable player. I remember him playing that 190 odd he got at Brisbane in 2006. First time I ever watched him bat against Harmon. I know harmless and you know, bowled the first one to second slip, but he still bowled quickly. He still bowled unbelievably quickly. Freddie was firing in. First day of the Brisbane Test, first day of the Ashes. Just made batting look incredibly easy. I mean, I've been facing these guys in the net, barely get on the front foot.

He's a revenge innings, isn't it? He really set his stall out after what happened in 2005.

And, you know, he was right forward playing, crunching cover drives, and then if it was slightly shorter, like pulling through mid wicket, and I'd obviously been facing these guys in the nets and just couldn't hit them, I was like, jesus, how good this guy is. So he goes there and obviously a great, actually a really nice guy. Real, I would say a legend. Well, obviously legend there. That's my seven. I've gone KP at number six. Just, you know, he's played some of the innings where I don't think anyone will ever forget 2005. So that he is. Has to be marked up there for the character with a haircut, the first probably English, you know, batsman to take it to Australia, like properly take it to him. From what I can remember, like in, in a successful, in a successful thing as a bachelor, not an all rounder. So he goes, that's my number six, Angus.

Have you got anything different from there?

Well, they're different, yes. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Because in my case there's a bit of who you know and have come across and liked as individuals as well. You can't help be influenced slightly by that. And that's. No, that's absolutely no reflection on Stuart Broad, who's second bottom because she likes Stuart very much. But we're talking carrots.

What about number 10?

Well, I've got David Warner there because I didn't know him at all. I'd never interviewed David Warner. I asked to interview him at the end of the last Ashes at the Oval live on the radio and he, he, he said a couple of words to me and so I had, I did have to give it David Warner there as he left. And that's the only, the only time that I've ever actually spoken to David Warner. So that's why it's bottom. Stuart. Stuart comes in at number nine again.

What.

You know, you can't, you can't base it on whether they give you an interview.

He was very rude. And so I said, David Warner there, and that was it. So he's bottom now, Stuart Broad. Well, they kind together, aren't they? Was Stuart a character? That's the thing. I mean, there were lots of what I liked about Stuart. When his knees were up, he was running in, bowling hard. You could see, you know, what is, what is a character, you know, Merv Hughes, for me, I've got him at number 10, 987, you say. Because Merv was a character, big moustache and big stomach and stuff. And he was very, he was very cunning with his sledging. He used to slip it through his moustache. So you couldn't really, you couldn't really see what was going on. You couldn't, you couldn't really hear it very clearly unless you were Usually Graham Hick, who is getting it in the air. And you see Ricky Ponting, who I don't really know very well. And I'm slightly influenced only because he was always. I've always. I've interviewed Ricky at some horrible times in his life when he's lost the Ashes most of the time against us, you know, So I think. I don't think he likes me very much.

Again, you're basing it on interviews.

Well, I am a bit. I just don't think Ricky likes me because I've always been that person there with the microphone to say, oh, bad luck, Ricky, you know, Gary Pratt. So Ricky and I, we're getting better. But again, character, character. Ricky for me was a brilliant player, wonderful batsman, character. I put Murph hughes above him. KP. Yeah, I mean, 2005, he was a real character, wasn't he? And he was kind of a favorable character through his career. Became really quite marmite. People either really liked Kevin Peterson or really felt very strongly about him. I see Ewan Piers made up, by the way. That's a nice cookie. And all of that. That really did divide opinion, didn't it?

But I've definitely, on my list, put cricket as well. Yeah, well, cricket dominate.

Yeah, Cricket has to go into it.

Just because you don't like them very.

Much or the fact they don't get very good into you.

On that basis for interview etiquette, where would Sir Alistair Cook go on this list?

Well, actually, he was always quite. I know, he's all right with me. Cookie, weren't you?

Yeah, we're fine.

Actually, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you, Cookie.

1.

I went and interviewed because I always had to interview the captains for every test match and in Dunedin I scuttled around fast. Oh, God, I could have your hands to cook again. Round I went with the machine, interviewed him, but all the way back to the box hadn't worked, which is every. Every interviewer's nightmare, isn't it? So I thought, okay, all the back again. And he did it a second.

Oh, bless him.

So that's a gent. So actually he'd been the top three there.

Was there any comment around having to do it again?

Well, he obviously took the mickey.

I just professional how hard could be to press one button, one job, you've got to ask three questions and I'll press one.

So I can't wait till we make you do that. Warmed up next summer.

Wow.

Just out of interest, does that change at all based on character of performance? No, okay, fine.

No, I've linked, I have to link mine with cricket. I just couldn't see any other way because like Broady, you're right, Merv Hughes is a, is a, is a, is a bigger character.

Yeah. I've got the big, the big cricketing characters to come. Remember I'm going yeah but I just.

Think that I've gone as broadly as a. He's in my top top five just because the character he put over the game in certain times. I ate that A for 15. That was like I'll never forget that. I'll never forget that ever.

No.

And that if that's not character and, and totally obviously dominating Australia, Jimmy injured.

He had to, he had to stand.

Up, you know, so I, I, that's how I've linked like a bit of character as well.

Like my doesn't perfectly entitled to cook.

So like Merv is obviously is a bigger characters because I don't know as much about his cricket. That's why hes feeling.

Well I'm going to agree with you there Sir Alastair because I have got Merv at bottom.

I have, I'm gonna tell him no.

I know Merv, I've, I've had the pleasure of working with Merv.

Well, I'm gonna tell him, well, I'll.

See you and he is the sweetest man you could possibly come across. You won't like on the field he's completely the opposite.

He's not gonna be happy.

The big mustache, the character Bay 13 MCG with all the spectators following him and with his warm up two should.

Be be number one then in terms.

Of characters that make you watch the game and think that it's entertainment and fun. Merv Hughes is up there but I've incorporated all of it in there. So as I said at the start, I want people who were charismatic box office but could also create magical moments, had that grit and resilience and perform in Ashes matches. So that's why he's at number 10.

Poor Merv. Now you both got in bottom.

Sorry man.

With that in mind, I've gone with Steve War at number nine.

Good grief.

Now obviously it's high on your list, isn't it? Well, yes, we'll come to that. Obviously grit, determination, embodied the whole Australian ethos of coming at you and being strong minded and determined and he revolutionized Australian cricket. He squeezed every ounce of ability out of his ability. In terms of box office, would I want to watch him bat? Apart from that match at the SCG where I was glued to the screen.

100 at Sydney when he got off 100 off the last ball.

Yeah, I did. Yeah. That was an incredible moment. That was a moment in time, though, I guess. I wouldn't say that. Every time he went out to play, I was glued to the screen.

I think you dropped the World Cup. I mean, you know, that's a characterful thing to say, wasn't it?

It wasn't in the Ashes though, was it?

Well, no, but it was still character. Well, I don't know about this.

He had plenty of.

It's gonna be embarrassing in Australia. I mean, honestly. Sure, you're gonna need. You're gonna need some sort of bodyguard. Steve Warren.

Steve.

Number nine and ten.

Sorry, Steve. What about this one, though? Number eight. I've got David Warner. I have to work with him in Australia, so. Sorry, David. Yes, lots of character. Intimidating. Intimidating for our bowlers, apart from Stuart Broad. Always made something happen, always got stuck in. And he definitely elevated the entertainment when he was out there on the pitch. But yes, he's at 8. So we've got three Aussies at the bottom there.

Yeah.

Like it?

Oh, you're gonna need some.

Well, I've got Stuart Broad at number seven. I just think he always had a good moment in Ash's cricket, didn't he? Think about that 8:15, the Oval. You think about the last Test match there. Only he could have finished in that way.

Turn the bail around.

The oval. Turn the bail around, Get a wicket, finish on a high six with his last ball.

Yeah.

In Test cricket, y. He. He made things happen and that's why he is at number seven. And he wasn't afraid to stand up to the Aussies. When you think about him putting the newspaper under the arm, the press conference, that's why he's a bit further up. Kevin Peterson at 6 as well.

We've all got the same place. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

I always remember him walking out to bat at Lords and hitting a 50. And the thing that I remember the most was Glenn McGraw. And every time Glenn McGraw got hit for runs, he would shake his head. You would remember this Aggers, because you would have commentated on him quite a lot. Hands on hips. And he'd be shaking his head constantly. Kevin Peterson made him do that quite a lot that series, as he did. Well, that, that Test match. Sorry.

Yeah. And the oval, he thinks that the oval was outstanding. That was extraordinary, wasn't it? So, yeah. Well, it's interesting how we've. We talked about his batting, but then, you know, in terms of characters, we will put him in number six.

That's because of who's to come in the top five.

Indeed.

So do you want to go aggers?

Right, so picking up then the top five. And it is. This is hard. I mean, the characters involved here and for different reasons. I could have put him higher, but I've got Ben Stokes at five again, it's just a toss up between him and Flintoff. That's a really close battle for me. Inspirational. Again, they are the people who pull peoples out the bar to go and watch. They're just different, a different level. And the clarity of both of them. And actually particularly Stokes, the clarity with which he played the game and the way that he counter attacks, which, again, Flintoff did very well in 2005. Again, had that amazing series. Yeah, they're kind of equal for me, really, but I've got Stokes at 5 and Flintoff at 4. It could have been the other way around. Now, see, I've bucked the trend here because at number three, I've got Steve Waugh character, the steely again, I mean, I said earlier, but he did redefine Australian cricket, really. They'd been through a pretty ordinary trot in the 80s and Alan Border started that change in 1989 when he came here was Captain Grumpy and so on. But actually Steve Wall really, really moved Australian cr on. And okay, he had Shane Warren and Glenn McGraw, which helped in. In the side, of course, but I've got massive respect for. For Steve. And again, I go back to that point about the contact that you have with. With particularly the captains. I. I followed him because ABC never sent anyone to interview the Australian captain before. Every Test match was a bit strange. So in 2002, three, I interviewed Steve Waugh before every game and he was coming under incredible pressure. I mean, massive pressure. He was going to lose his place, he was going to lose the captaincy. And it built up, up and built up. And they scored that incredible 100 at Sydney, which was not just important, but it was a brilliant innings. And there's that whole question of the last ball or the last over, how many needed. But he needed, I think, one off the last ball. And it was all engineered by Adam Gilchrist at the other end. In a way, Steve Orr had to go for it. But there've been a lot of batsmen who have just blocked it out and come back tomorrow, you know, but not Steve. Bang four through the covers, you know, it was one of the great moments. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live. Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I've got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast. My name's Steve Bradnell, assistant manager at Royal Oak fc.

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Who have you gone for five to three?

I've gone Freddie at five, Stuart Broad at four and Shane Warne at three. I just, I've kind of done this. They're all massive characters on and off the field, so you can't split them really in their own unique ways. And so I've also linked into my personal experience, like Freddie 2005 revolutionizing cricket in England on Channel 4. Millions of people watching it. I was a 21 year old playing professional cricket and what that did for kind of my career in terms of interest there. Yeah, that was, you know, I can't, you can't ever Forget that what 2005 did for the game in this country and obviously with Freddie's character there, it's.

Like both of 91, wasn't it really? Yeah, similar. Yeah.

Well that's. Yeah, I mean that's where I'm going then. I've gone brought it for. Yes. He's not like the big character in terms of, you know, the off field stuff, but when I took this character stuff and in my career, every big moment in Ashes, Stuart delivered.

He was a nemesis for them. Yes.

2009, the Oval, 2013 Durham, 2015 Trenbridge and then obviously 13 as well. The non walking things. Every part of my Ashes experience, Broady's played such a big part. I always said to him it must be nice for now you retired that knowing that every time the game was up for grabs in the biggest series, you always delivered. How nice a feeling of that. Being like I barely did so. So I just thought that that is for me the character and so entwined in my career why he is so high up. How to explain that reason, obviously. And then spent a lot of time with Broady off the field in those moments as well. So that's why.

He's your friend, isn't he?

Yeah. So that's why I pushed him up there for other stuff.

Just out of interest, how much are you factoring in how easy or hard it was to captain any of these players?

Well, I think I'm trying to think.

I only probably captained Kevin Peterson at 6.

Yeah, no, Kevin Beaton at 6. But I think Broady had more impact in Ashes than. Than KP did. So then I've gone for the character. Character thing or more. There's Ash's series for me, so that's why he's up there. And then I've gone Shane Warne for three. You can't talk about a bigger character, can you? Let's be honest, like he should be number one. However, when you look at the other with Beefy and Stokes in there, I'm also relating to a. They're English so they're going to be on top of my list anyway. So when you can't split them, you split them with other things. That's what I was going to moan about both your lists, that you've chosen a non Englishman to be at the top of it when you. Yeah, like what can you not say about Shane Warren? What can you say about something which hasn't been said? Already privileged to have played against him. I was there on the 700 wicket at the MCG which that moment was. Was incredible. And then actually during that series, although I didn't score many runs against him, when I did score runs against him, he was very complimentary and then just talking to him kind of at that time was unbelievable. Obviously had a bit of moments when he was. When I was captain and he was Michael Clark's like cheerleader and stuff like that. But after that, you know, would have loved to have got to know him more in the commentary sphere and just talking cricket with him because that's what, you know, I did a bit after that on the phone. He was always there to chat to me if he. After that I gave a number, chatted away, but never really sat there, had beers, not that everything has to be related about beers, but sat in a bar talking to him about cricket, which is. Which I feel amiss. So a great character, obviously everyone missed in the game but he has to go three on the pure example. He's an Australian and I had to have two Englishmen in the top two. So there you go.

So patriotic. Incredible brain, Shane Warne. But we'll get to that in a minute, me and Aggers. I think we're probably revealing who's in our top two, but five for me, Freddie, I think for me, 2005, you know, we were playing our Ashes at the same time and we would finish our day's play and then we'd flick on the telly and watch the boys. And so inspired by all of them, actually. Just the way they were going about their business, the way they were taking it to Australia. We obviously went on to win our Ashes as well. And it was. It felt like an incredible summer of cricket just because Australia dominated for such a long time. And you always want the big game players to stand up in the big moments and he absolutely did that. Freddie, the heart and soul of England's fight. I always remember that over he bowled to Ricky Ponting, the partnerships he had with Geraint Jones when him and Kevin Peterson were out in the middle together. But it wasn't just that series. 5 for 78 at Lord's in 2009. I remember him getting down on one knee and just arms outstretched. He was struggling a bit more with injury then. He always made things happen. The run out at the oval just. I always kind of, as a fan of cricket, was really attracted to watching players that could just make things happen. Darren Gough was one of those for me growing up. And Freddie very much that player for me as an all rounder. So him at 5 then I've got Beefy, obviously. Heard a lot of stories of Beefy growing up. Would have been reminded of what happened in 81 and just him as a general character. And that's the same for Freddie as well. I mean, they were both larger than life characters. They would bring everyone with them. They're the sorts of players that, you know, you feel 10ft taller when you're in the dressing room and you've got that character.

These all rounders have presence.

Yeah, they do, they have presence.

Stokes, flint off, both of them.

Do you think that's just a character trait of all rounders?

I think probably is, because they almost.

Think like, well, I've got to be good at everything.

Absolutely.

And to be good at that, you then have you kind of wired slightly differently?

Yeah, I mean, I think all the, all the top all rounders have been big characters.

I've gone beefy at four had the pleasure of working with him in the commentary box. That was a lot of fun. And just someone who, I guess the game did come quite naturally to him.

You won't be pleased.

Fourth.

Ian does not like coming fourth. Ian does not like coming second.

Well, I've got a pretty good top three.

Here we are going with you.

And in at number three, I've got Ricky Ponting. So you talk about characters in the game. For me, he just embodied again, that kind of fiery, gritty Australian.

Cause you know him well too, don't you?

I do, yeah. I do know Ricky and actually working with him, you get to know him in a completely. It was the same with all the Australians. To be honest, when I first met Warnie, it was very intimidating. But then, you know, we became good friends. So with Ricky, I just. I kind of go back to 2005 and what he represented then and just how every time he walked onto the field, anytime he spoke in public, it just felt like his chest was puffed out. I mean, he's not that much taller than me, he won't mind me saying that. But he had so much aura and presence and as a captain, you know, one of the best captains. 19 matches in Ashes cricket that he won as captain. He had a great team with him as well, but he was able to lead them pretty well. He was able to dominate as a batter for so many years. Over 13,000. I'm sure no one reminds him ever during Ashes cricket. But the century at Old Trafford, Brit determination was part of some pretty big moments in Ashes cricket. So top two, who wants to go first?

I'll go the youngest here.

Are you?

I don't know.

Am I?

I've gone for Lord Botham at number one. I just, you know, he saved his best cricket for Australia. No one will ever forget 81. I wasn't even born 81 yet. I know I'm now saying, well, I'd never played with him and stuff, but the other. Some of the other guys didn't have much to do with their career, so they down the list. But I do think that 81 is almost the greatest moment ever in English cricket. That's the most talked about moment in a test match, I reckon. So that's why I was gone there. And he saved his best Australia. He had this way about him of just taking Australia on at all, at everything, wasn't it? He would not lose to Australia in anything he did, whether it was cricket, tiddlywinks, fishing, what you are. And they're kind of that kind of character. And then you hear some of the stories. Well, all the stories I've heard about a million of them. There's probably another 5 million to go. So I'm combining a guy who's best cricket was against Australia with the 81, one of the greatest ever test matches. And he played the biggest part in it and then saved all his crickets. So he's number one. And I've gone stokesy because. And number two because again, that, that headingly bit there to witness. Headingly. I, I just, I still, I, I still can't believe that innings. I still can't believe that innings and what he's done. Did that innings and what he did in that series and kind of then I LinkedIn to standing up to Australia and I've got this thing about players standing up and delivering that. Perth113, his first one with a crack was the size of this table and just got 100. And I think the fact that always never took a backward step against them. So I've gone for Stokesy and you know, if, if the next however long and you know, if we sit here and he, he does win in Australia as a captain, what an amazing. Do you know what I mean? That will definitely go up there. So I've gone for a character. Those two beefy number one, Stokes number two all rounders.

I don't think there'd be many people disagreeing with you there, to be fair. But both me and Aggers have gone a couple of different, different.

Well, it's interesting because I could easily put Ian number one too. I mean I did play with Ian, shared dressing rooms with Ian and he just dominated everything. Yeah, you know, he would just, you know what dressing room's like when he got to used little benches or whatever they may be in your lockers. Well, he, his kit was just in the middle of the dressing room and he just lived in the middle of the dressing room, which is like, like what he was. He was like the heartbeat of the place and he just got changed and everything. He was just in the middle of the dressing room. It was extraordinary. Kit all over the place. Yeah, brilliant. A brilliant cricketer. Someone. And the thing about Ian is he lived his life very much under tabloid spotlight. It was. Must be very hard for him. You know, he, he really couldn't do anything.

He's a proper superstar.

Yes, he was, he was proper superstar. He was, he was pursued. Yeah, relentlessly by the tabloids. There's a bit of a tabloid war going on at the time and, and Ian was. It Worked for, I think, I think he might work for both the sun and the Mirror at various times, but there was always this incredible competition to get stories about Ian Botham and so he had to, you know, live under that as well. He kind of reveled in it as well because he was this. We talked about the characters, but.

I.

Just could not go for Shane Warne. That was the thing. He just, I mean, he has excelled at the hardest, easily the most difficult discipline in cricket. And he's made wrist spin bowling not only look easy, but be so influential in the games that he played in accuracy, the accuracy of a wrist spinner to bowl as he did, ball after ball after ball and to spin the ball so much. And when he was at his best, when he had that flipper as well, yeah, he was a, he was a bowling genius. So, okay, that's one thing. But in terms of character, I always describe as a pantomime dame because he's rather like that on the field, wasn't he? All those ridiculous of theatrical appeals and all that. He was getting into the batsman's head without slagging them off, without being abusive, but he was just this massive figure even when the picture was doing nothing. I mean, he blagged that win in Adelaide.

Amazing Adelaide.

I mean, he blagged. He wasn't doing anything, but he blagged it, you know, Great poker player, wasn't he?

Yeah.

And you know, that was kind of how he, how he played his cricket as well. So he's my number one.

Well, I've gone with the same number one actually. Yeah. But I'll start with two. And Ben, Ben Stokes, who again, similar sort of character to Beefy and Freddie in the sense that we'd always make things happen. And headingly was. We were all there back at the time when I guess no one walking to the ground that day, on that final day expected England to get over the line. But then when they were nine down, they still needed 70 odd. I mean, and just ridiculous that. But the World cup not long before. He is someone who can produce miracles and he's done it time and again. And you say the same about Shane Warne, but Ben has that ability himself. Two players that didn't really shy away from the tabloids either. Very much culturally significant when it comes to being able to dominate, especially in Ashes cricket. A modern day Ashes warrior, Ben Stokes, and as a captain as well. I mean, the inspiration that he's created for this team in this new era.

I'd love to have played under Ben Stokes.

Wouldn't you?

Yeah, I'd love to.

And actually there's probably quite a few similarities in the way he captains, in the way Shane would have captained, in terms of the instinct. And sometimes it feels like a bit of a gamble, but it's an instinctive gamble to just really back his players. And I imagine that's what Shane would have done as well. And Shane's at number one just purely because of the genius, but also the fact that he could transcend the sport and bring other people to the game through his magic. I mean he was someone who everyone feared when they were facing him, but also just the greatest showman, especially at the mcg, his backyard, his playground. Everyone just wanted to watch every single ball he bowled. And you talk about the aura that he possessed and sometimes it was something out of nothing. I mean he would literally just go and talk to extra cover for no particular reason at all. And that would get into the batter's mind and the ball of the century, you know, the hat trick, the 700th wicket, even that 2005 Ashes series, you know, he came into that series not being in particularly good form. I think he spent a lot of time with Terry Jenner just ahead of the series and ended up picking up 40 old wickets. Yeah, quite a lot.

That's a lot in it.

Even at, you know, Trent Bridge at the oval, you still felt with Warne and the team, England were never safe. So just purely for that reason of just that unbelievable ability. And there will never be another Shane.

Warne, but Shane as well, just to throw this in, when it went after the ball of the century, I remember saying, wow, this is going be to inspire a whole new generation of wristbin bowlers. They're going to see this, you know, this incredible character, what he can do. Well, where are they? There aren't any because they can't do it. He was, he was so good and no, no one can come up and match what he did. He made that art look so easy.

It's a good point actually. I never thought about that.

Thank you, Alistair.

There's been quite a lot in legs like in one day cricket have done really well, haven't they? Yeah, but nothing like nothing in test, nothing quite like I suppose, you know, you got kumble but they're different. He's a different bowl, wasn't he?

Yeah.

To Shane Warner kind of.

But you're right, I thought everyone, all, every kid would want, I think.

Yeah, I suppose they did want to do it. That's a really good point. I had to Nick that one something.

And. And actually just to add to that, no one really talks about his broadcasting and I was so very fortunate to work with him and sit alongside him. And I still remember, I mean, me and Gilly talk about it all the time, that there were a couple of moments in the commentary box where we would just sit there and just look at each other and go, this is ridiculous. Because he would be describing a passage of play and to a normal person you'd be looking at a passage of play going, I have no idea what's happening here. Or this is really slow. And he would make something from it and describe exactly what the bowler was thinking, exactly what the batter was thinking and describe it in such a way that would make it really inviting to the viewer. But he also had this unbelievable ability to talk about his craft that everyone could follow. You know, if you hadn't watched cricket before, he had this incredible way of being able to describe cricket to a layman and I think that was one of his strengths as well.

Kids too, wasn't he? The start of play down on the ground, just with kids bowling.

Yeah. And so that's why I miss listening to him actually, because you will never get that brain again. You had all this experience of years and years and years of cricket and all these different match situations and him watching it. He was an absolute badger Cricket badger. He would watch cricket 247 and always have something to say about it. It's been quite a long chat about Shane Warne, but there's a reason for that and that's why he is number one. Very special, very special player. Would you change your mind?

I've got an argument for at least, you know, between both of Stokes and Warne. You could put almost any of those in terms of the top three in any order. I'm quite happy to have Shane Warne at number one, you know. Absolutely. But I think you could argue for both of them at number one as well in the same, in the same way. I think those two things, I just put Warnet3 because he's Australian. I think that's the only other reason for it. It's the only reason. But those top three, in terms of what they've. Those three have done for the sport in different ways. In different ways. But what they've done for the sport and what they did in Ash's cricket are just. Is unrivaled and certainly picking from 19 in the last, the last 20 odd years. I think it's, you know, it's that it's quite A clear top three in my opinion. Sorry, I guess your Steve Waugh has to be a little bit. But you know, you know, you can argue and it's a really interesting thing because what is character, what is performance? How, how is it linked? And it's been quite.

I think you've both talked about Stuart Broad really well and I feel a bit guilty that he's number nine on my list.

He's not gonna be happy.

No, he's not. I'm gonna put him up a couple.

Of places, but then you can look at there and you think, well, Freddie should be up a bit harder. But then we are talking, we're splitting heads between some cricketers who have, I think looking back now after discussing and doing the list would be all the cricketers who have defined eras of defined games or defined series in a different way in terms of. And have that off field thing are the top things. So you could pick any, quite a few of those people.

Any players that you would have had in that top 10 that aren't in there. Phil Toughnall. Oh, tough.

As tough as last tour no.90.

I reckon his last Test match was 97, wasn't it?

Yeah. Perhaps tougher should be in there because.

Beefy finished in 92.

That's right. Of course he did.

And if that's the case, then Alan Border probably needs to be in there.

We could go forever.

I've just opened a can of worms at the end of the podcast. Well, there we have it. Some of the greatest characters in the game. My thanks to Sir Alistair Cook and Jonathan Agnew. But did we get it right? You can join the conversation. Email us at TMSBC. Text 81111. Start your message with TMS, all one word, all capitals. And you can WhatsApp us on 033-01-231826. Again, start your message with TMS, all, one capitals. That's it for now. We'll speak to you next time.

Welcome to Tail Enders. I'm Greg James. He's Felix White. Hello. And that is England's greatest ever bowler, Jimmy Anders. We finally got our break on BBC iPlayer. It's lovely to be here. England haven't won a test match in Australia since the 20102011 series, which is.

A long time ago.

Give us a few reasons as to.

Why it's so difficult. The wickets are different, the ball's different and the heat as well. The media coverage over there is so much bigger than a test series in England, for example. And cricket over there is huge.

Plus Australia are amazing in their own country.

Tail enders watch on iPlayer, listen on BBC Sounds. Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.