Women's T20 World Cup Preview

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

We will have a little chat now about the Women's T20 World Cup hosted at various venues here across England. The opening game, that's England against Sri Lanka, taking place at Edgbaston next Friday. We've got every match for you here live on BBC Sounds. Got Ishigawa alongside me, World Cup winner, and Katie Martin, former New Zealand wicketkeeper as well. Good to see you both and talk about what's going to be a really exciting period. You know, we're here to witness 2017, which is the last time World Cup was held, the women on home soil. Before that, the T20 World Cup in 2009. So these events don't come around much. To start with, Esha, just that big picture of the significance of having a World Cup on home soil, given in particular, and some people say, oh, stop comparing and looking at the other sports, but there is a real wave, isn't there, behind what the, England women's team, the Lionesses, have done, and the rugby team winning the Rugby World Cup, the Red Roses.

It's a real feel-good moment for women's sport in this country at the moment. I think Jess Ennis-Hill back in 2012 was a real lightbulb moment for, for female individuals in sport in this country. But I think in terms of team sport, you're just riding that wave of, of celebration and the inspiration that's been caught from those two teams that you've just spoken about there. And England have a great opportunity now. I think they've been tracking along nicely. Charlotte Edwards obviously coming in as coach. She's wanted to stamp her mark on things pretty quickly, and that's Sivaprunt as captain. And I think that last game, it felt like things had really kind of clicked coming into, into the World Cup. But in terms of the bigger picture moment, it's always a special moment. You can sometimes feel the pressure as a team when it's a home World Cup. I remember 2009, we just won the One Day World Cup in Australia, so that was a significant moment for us and didn't have too much time to celebrate. I think it was a couple of nights out in Australia before we flew back home, and then it was head down to get ready for the T20 World Cup here on home soil, which was another incredible moment for us to be able to play here. Obviously back then we were the curtain raiser to the men. Now we have standalone women's tournaments. So, you know, the, the way that the women's game has continually evolved over the last decade or so is just brought it to a moment where it's going to be the biggest ever World Cup that we've seen, I think, in terms of the number of teams, the level of competition, and the crowds that we're going to see coming to the grounds on the back of what was a hugely successful moment in India just recently for the 50-over World Cup. You just feel like all that momentum's building with, you know, the support that's being garnered at the ICC now and, and Certainly, you know, England and Wales have always been brilliant when it comes to women's cricket. In, in the last 15 years or so, it really has shifted here in the, uh, with the introduction of The Hundred to, you know, one of the most equitable tournaments in the world across all sports. So it feels like it could be culminating in a really amazing moment here at Lord's.

Yeah, the final, 5th of July. England will be desperately hoping that they are part of it. Katie, New Zealand are the defending champions. You called the winning moments when they won in Dubai. I mean, And just that inspiration piece, I mean, that wasn't a World Cup on home soil, but quite the celebrations for them and the reception when they got back home so that the meaning of it filters through, doesn't it, to every level?

Yeah, we could be here all afternoon talking about the celebrations till very early in the morning when the sun come up.

But you might have taken part in some of that.

From what I can remember.

No comment.

Yeah, to be fair, seeing the trophy with the Burj Khalifa in the background with the sunrise going up, I think that's just stuff that's embedded in your brain, and I know, Esh, that 2009 where actually New Zealand played England in both of those World Cup finals and lost. And unfortunately, I was part of that. Well, fortunately, you feel privileged to be able to play at a World Cup. But I think, yeah, the reception that the group got home, they went on a trophy tour around every part of New Zealand, and where you're seeing a movement, I think it's so important on the back of a World Cup win, and I'm sure that you'll reflect on 2017 as such a moment for your home organisation to be able to make the most of that. Probably England reflected on 2017 that it wasn't happen— it didn't happen. You didn't get that shift of momentum. Same in 2000. But you feel that in New Zealand, you know, cricket has been on free-to-air, so it's been a lot more accessible. Players are becoming names at home. It's not just young girls that come and watch the games now, it's boys as well. The crowds get out. There's a lot more engagement and opinions on, on different players within the group as well. And I think we'll see generational change in 15 years of the players that said, I watched the World Cup in 2024 when we saw you know, those players win it. And I think when you reflect on '24, Millie Kerr was saying how she wrote, I guess, poems and all sorts back when she was a kid about Suzie Bates and Sophie Devine and dreaming of that moment to play at a World Cup and win it with them. So I think New Zealand cricket's done an outstanding job on getting behind the game in New Zealand, you know, equal pay in terms of the match payments. So I think, yeah, there's still continued work to do because The domestic game isn't professional by any stretch of the imagination, but it gives a platform to be able to move forward with that.

I think what's interesting about this particular World Cup is that there was a lot of talk in the last 5 or 6 years about Australia, India, England pulling away from the pack. And New Zealand, a bit like the men's game, they punch above their weight. It's a cliché, but they do punch above their weight in terms of the level of resource that they have compared to those other 3 teams. And I think with South Africa now, we're seeing that they could absolutely go and win a World Cup. Just recently beaten India, haven't they?

T20 series.

Exactly. They've made that many finals. They've, they've had a couple of players come out of retirement as well. They feel this is a really great opportunity for them and that they're playing some really good cricket. The West Indies, you never know with them. They've obviously won it before. So I feel like it's a little bit more open this, this particular World Cup. England are not the favorites. I would say Australia are, but they're in a group with India and South Africa. So I think it's going to be one of the most competitive World Cups we've seen.

Well, let me run you through who, how many teams are taking part and who's in what group.

And it's a really simple format to look at because it's two groups. Everyone plays each other in their group. The top two go through to semifinals and then the final. So Group 1 is this group where, you know, a big team is going to miss out here on a semifinal because you've got Australia, India, and South Africa all in that group together with Pakistan. And then two qualifiers, which are Bangladesh and the Netherlands women, who have qualified for this T20 World Cup for the very first time. England are in Group 2 with the defending champions New Zealand, West Indies, the unpredictability of that, and then Sri Lanka, and then Scotland and Ireland as two qualifiers. So there's that real sort of home nations, if you like, rivalry to go on with there. And a key match I know that, you know, ECB have been looking at is that England-Scotland clash because they meet in Headingly in what would be England's third game. So if you're marking your card for England matches, their opener is the first game of the tournament against Sri Lanka. Which is the 12th at Edgbaston. Then they move on to Southampton Tuesday the 16th to play Ireland. Saturday the 20th is at Headingley against Scotland. Those— these are all evening games starting at 6:30 in the evening. Then West Indies back here at Lord's on Wednesday the 24th, and then Saturday the 27th, their last group game against New Zealand at The Oval. The two semi-finals are at The Oval, and then the final is here at Lord's. And significantly as well, when you talk about prize money, the overall prize pot has gone up 10% on the 2024 edition. The winners still receive the same amount, but it's that broader amount of money that's trickling down to those who have qualified. So the winners will still get US$2.34 million. Susie Bates built a sauna with her winnings, she told me.

She did. I think most of the White Ferns now own a house in New Zealand. Um, probably wouldn't own one in England by that, but it's a really important point there because It's been uneven because there's been professional teams and amateur teams, and there's still an aspect of that. And that's where Australia, India, and England, the professionalism of the domestic game already going into high performance programs, to then be able to be so dominant at that international level. It's pretty obvious the more time you spend to be able to do something, you're going to get better. But the prize money is used for a number of those smaller associations to say, well, a player might not have to work. They can use the prize money to actually have that as enough income. New Zealand at the last year's World Cup didn't even get out of the group part, and they won £50,000. So you imagine having that money as prize money to be able to actually say, I'm going to focus solely on cricket and get better. I think that's where that money is probably more valuable.

So I'll give you the minimum participation fee, got here, $247,500 for the team. So per group stage win, $31,000, just over $31,000 US dollars. And then if you can make the semi-final, that's $675,000 for making the final if you lose. So yeah, these are, these are much more significant amounts, and the investment continues to come from the ICC to keep it going in that right direction.

And I think you've got to think about the impact on the lower-ranked teams with that sort of money. You know, the Netherlands, um, being able to, to qualify for the very first time. Scotland, Ireland, you know, Ireland have been around it for a while now. Scotland have too, but But, you know, to have that, that level of kind of investment coming into their women's cricket, you know, it's— we talk a lot about professionalism and, you know, young girls can now aspire to have a viable option in terms of a professional career in cricket now. But domestic structures are also really important. And I think that has always been the balance for the women's game. And certainly in England, you know, I know that a number of the England players, senior players, forego— they actually came together and said, we don't want to push for more money, we actually want this to be diverted to the women's game. So they were quite sensible in how they approached that. This was probably 5 or 6 years ago. And so we saw the benefits of that now with the domestic structure in the UK, that there is a lot more money and a lot more professional contracts. I think we have 140 now 2014 was obviously the first time we had those contracts that was oversaw— that was overseen by Clare Connor and Giles Clarke. They introduced those professional contracts to 18 players within the England team, and now we have domestic contracts for players with the help of the Professional Cricketers' Association managing that transition. So I think all that investment coming into the game, you know, money doesn't grow on trees. You've got to be able to spread it out to to create that sustainability and the future of the game. And I think for the lower-ranked teams, you know, to be able to put those domestic structures in place, I think will be hugely valuable for them.

Yeah. What about the way England are shaping up then? We heard from Nat Sciver-Brunt just then, and yeah, that's a huge thing. England want her back and batting. Ideally she'd be bowling as well, but that's, yeah, an unlikely prospect for the start, you think?

I think what has taken pressure off her getting back to full fitness with her bowling is the way England have bowled. I watched all of those games ahead of the World Cup, and what I see with this England team, actually, probably a year ago I would look at their bowling unit and I would worry a little bit when an opposition batter got after them. I now see 5 or 6 players within that side who might go for a few runs, but they'll come back and they might take a wicket. And it's that magic and that belief that you can have as a team when you're building a bowling attack like that. You've got players who can be tone setters. Lauren Bell has come on leaps and bounds. She's arguably one of the, the, you know, most prominent players now coming into this World Cup with everything that she did at the WPL and the confidence she gained there being a tone setter in T20 cricket. You think about someone like Amarazane Kap, she is such a tone setter for South Africa that, you know, it's very difficult to, to get her away early. Um, but she's just developed in so much skill that she can bowl throughout the innings as well. It's not just Sophie Ecclestone that they're relying on. You've got Lindsay Smith, you've got Dani Gibson who can come in. Freya Kemp's been bowling a few overs. Charlie Dean can take wickets as well. So, um, and then Tilly Courtine-Coleman, who's 18 years of age, right, new star that's come into this squad, and there's now competition for places. And I know it's something that, that Charlotte Edwards talked about, um, coming in as coach, was she wanted a bit more competition. She, she you know, she asked the players to go away to domestic cricket and really perform so they could put their hand up for the World Cup squad. And, you know, a lot of players have missed out, which is obviously going to be devastating. But, you know, they've really built this, this side that can kind of cater for all conditions as well. It was just the batting that really needed to click. And we saw in that final game that, you know, that partnership between Asuka Patsy and Heather Knight was just the icing on the cake, really.

So it's the third game of the India series just gone. Yeah, that's right.

So I think they're tracking nicely. In a, in a World Cup campaign, you want to be feeling good going into a campaign. You want to know your role in the team. In 2009, we all knew our roles, but we also knew everyone else's, and we started to build that winning feeling. And when you're coming into a World Cup and your backs are against the wall in a game, you want to be able to look at your mate and think that they can do a job as well as you. And building that culture, I think, is so important going into a World Cup campaign. I think England will be able to do that, and Nat Silver-Bronwyn obviously obviously you could hear the frustration in her voice around the injury. It's something she hasn't really had to contend with too much. She'd absolutely and desperately want to be part of that side. But taking that pressure off her having to rush back with the ball, it does pose a question to Charlotte Edwards, and it's a question that I wouldn't want to answer about who would be left out of that side.

Because I enjoy sitting up here watching you.

But in terms of the balance, if she's not bowling, if they're not rushing her back to bowl because you've you can cover overs with Dani Gibson and Freya Kemp, you're not going to drop her because of the way she batted. I think you're going to have to, you're going to have to drop a batter. So, um, it's, it's going to be very difficult.

And Capsie has shown her hands in more than one match over these, you know, group of T20 games. There was, Katie, you know, a few questions being asked around Heather Knight and, and her effectiveness in a T20 side, your strike rate running between the wickets. How important therefore was that partnership she put on with Capsey, but her own individual role there? Because I mean, Charlotte Edwards afterwards was quite bullish about saying, well, actually, anyone in the media questioning Heather Knight, well, thank you, we're grateful, because that just spurs her on. It spurs, you know, spurs us all on. And I'm sure, you know, players might say we don't read papers or, you know, listen to the media and so on, but, um, yeah, things sort of filter through.

Yeah, I I think Heather Knight has made every team that I would, would have. I think she's the type of player, when you play against her, she's got so much control and she can adapt to situations. She's not always the most flashiest player, she's never been the most flashiest player, but she's gritty. And I think when it's a must-win game in a really difficult situation where you have to adapt to the conditions, she is by far England's most important player. And so she might fade into the background in games because you have your Dani Watahodze gets off to a great start, you know, you've got Bailey and Lindsay are able to dominate in the power play with the ball. But when stuff gets hard, that's when Heather Knight comes at her very best. You add Nat Zverbrunt and the partnerships that they've had throughout the years. I've watched Heather Knight own a Sydney Thunder team and nearly take them to the finals single-handedly by the way that she was able to galvanize that group and bring it together. I think the most important thing for England is the fact that you've got more all-rounders now in your top 7. So when you've got the likes of a Dani Gibson who can bowl at all phases and has power, and then Freya Kemp, who I think these 6 games have been the best thing that have happened to her because teams have worked her out where you can bowl wider, she doesn't hit to square leg that much. And I think now the conversations that Lottie's had with her is back your game to hit straight. The New Zealand girls said she's— she hits harder than anybody else that they've fielded against in that England side, which shows that if she backs her skills that she's got and she knows that the plan's against her, she's going to come off game after game and have that power innings that England maybe have missed in the past, that strike rate of 180-200 in games. So I would have Heather Knight in my team every day of the week. It just comes down to, is it Sophia Dunkley or is it Alice Capsie?

For me, the value of her experience, Ayesha, having someone that has been there, done that, got the former captaincy experience as well— how valuable is that to have in your, in your middle order?

I think it's incredibly valuable, um, especially when it comes to the longer format. So the one-day format, we saw in the recent World Cup against—

T20 though.

Yeah, I'll, I'll, yeah, I'll come to that. In, in the one-day World Cup, especially when you're playing against spin and you want someone who can play against spin in that middle order. It has been very dry here in this country, and, and who's going to be able to play spin the best? Probably her. Capsi's very good as well. Um, Nat Sciver-Brunt, when she comes back, um, I think you've got to think about that as well. Um, yes, T20 cricket, you want someone who can bang the ball everywhere, but she has improved her strike rate in the last few years. She has improved her game to, to be able to, to do that when she needs to. She didn't quite get it right at the start of the series, um, and in that penultimate run chase, she'll admit she didn't you know, she didn't quite get up with the rate like she needed to, and she, she, she basically rectified that for the last game. So Sophia Dunkley, still quite an intimidating player though. If she's one of the most intimidating players going round when she gets going, her strike rate of 160 for a long period of time there, um, you know, it all comes down to balance for me, uh, and, and what does Lottie want from a balanced point of view? Do you want to just say to Sophia Dunkley go out there and just try and whack every ball and, and try and throw that, um, those opening bowlers off their line and length and create a bit of panic for the opposition. Because that is, that is a thing in itself, you know, when you're running into a ball in a T20 game and you are unsure about where that ball is going to go, you don't want someone who can hit you for 3 or 4 boundaries in the over and then all of a sudden you're scratching around, you're having to chase the game then afterwards. Um, so for me it's a balancing, it's a question of you know, whether Nat Sciver-Brunt is bowling as well. So do they need some bowling cover? And those will be the questions. Do they want to just hold her back? You know, coming back from a calf injury is a very tricky thing to do. You're going to want Nat Sciver-Brunt for knockout games if they get that far.

And how important is her running between the wickets with her batting? That is probably her key part of her game.

Absolutely. And And I'm not discounting Sri Lanka in any way. They won a series over here the last time they were in, in the UK. But England have been playing well enough under Charlie Deane to say, well, actually, if she's not quite there yet, should we just go with the same team and then hold, hold Nat Sciver-Brunt back?

She could come back for the 20th against Scotland, say. That's quite a significant extra amount of time.

I think it's going to be a case of whether she's feeling confident enough in her own game now. She's someone that I think would be able to just slot straight back in. But speaking to her at an event just recently, you know, she was talking about wanting to feel confident in her body and, and, and being out in the middle in a, in a high-pressure situation. So I imagine they'll probably just see how these warm-up games go and where she's tracking in terms of the injury. But, but the way England have played have allowed the luxury of her making a decision about when she comes back.

I almost think if she was bowling, you'd probably have to make the decision between Kemp and Gibson. You could only have one of those players. I 100% agree with Sophia Dunkley because when it clicks for Dunks and when she is confident, has the backing, and maybe she's a little uncertain of position in the team, so you can see that panic that come— that comes about, but she is a player that can absolutely shift the game. Her— I think she averages something like over 50 when she's batting with Danni White-Hodge as well. And batting is so much about partnerships, and especially in T20, it's difficult for two batters to go go at the same, at the same time. So it could be the fact that an Alice Kepsey has to miss out, irrespective of the form that she's, that she's in at the moment.

That's such a— that's a tough call, isn't it? That is a big call to make.

What a position though.

Yeah, what a position to, to suddenly have these choices and big decisions to make. Um, how tricky is it in a World Cup, Katie, when you're coming up against some teams that you, you don't play a lot and haven't played a lot? And I'm thinking in particular England's opening game against Sri Lanka, because on, on paper, let's say rankings yes, that should be relatively comfortable win for England. But you know, it's T20, anything's possible. This Sri Lanka side, the last World T20, they had quite, you might say, an aging side, quite a lot of players who are late 30s, you know, a couple of 40s. They've done quite a revamp, and there's quite a lot of, you know, new young faces in there that England won't have come up against. Is there sometimes a bit of a kind of scramble for footage? And you know, a lot of analysis would need to be done to try and look at some of these players that they would have never come up against before.

I don't think that with Sri Lanka, because I think they've played so much cricket around the world. I think when I look at Sri Lanka and I look at the conditions in the UAE, when the wickets are slower like that, people tend to think that it brings in those bowlers, which it does. But then from a power batting perspective, Sri Lanka have such— sorry, Ish— such small, petite little batters.

Why are you looking at me?

I know I'm petite.

Well, when we head to Baldi in Oz, well, here we go, just pitching the link.

Who knows?

What about Tony Bowe Hodge and Tammy Beaumont? They've got a lot of power.

Well, you're sitting beside me, so I was just loading in fruit. But I think the fear with the Sri Lanka team is a chamariya tapatu, and I know that within Sri Lanka cricket at the moment they're spending so much time to technically teach the players how to create power. So I don't think— I think the conditions, and we've heard that they want the wicket to be a lot faster, a lot bouncier, should actually suit a Sri Lanka team from a batting perspective because it allows them to have that free-flowing play. I think I think the spinners, their spinners become really effective as well. So I don't think that they're a team that you can really play lightly. And you think in a T20 game, sometimes it takes 2 batters to be able to come off. And you think, ah, Atapattu scoring 100, and she's got a great record here in England in World Cups as well, that then they're not a side that you can sort of take lightly. And so they're always a surprise factor. Go back to 2020 where they nearly beat Australia at Perth, and that nearly eliminated Australia from that World Cup really, really early in that tournament. So look, I think they're a team that are feared and probably a team that you, you just can't underestimate, especially in a run chase where they can take control.

Ultimately, you've got to look at the squad, and, and Charlotte Edwards has built a squad, um, where she understands the different roles of the different players and created that level of competition. So Maeboucher coming in and doing a, a role at number 3 in the absence of Nat Sciverone, I actually think that's been quite quite good for the team because they know that they've got her in the bank if someone goes down injured, 2 or 3 people go down injured, and, and she can come in and do a job. And I think just that exploratory phase— yes, you want to have a team that you know what the 11 is going to be, but knowing that you do have people in the bank in a squad in a World Cup campaign, I think, is, is really, really valuable. And then it's just a case of which is the team that's going to get me a win on this day against this opposition in these conditions. So I think they will think very clearly about that for that first game. How is that pitch going to play? What are they going to need to get over the line against that particular team? And yes, they might be thinking ahead as well in terms of, um, who they want for, for certain games. They'll have to take Natseva Brunt's injury into consideration as well and how everyone else is tracking injury-wise. Um, but yeah, it's, it's really a case of who is the best, who is the best team for the day.

And England will want—

yeah, go on. I don't know what England, how England goes about this at a tournament, but typically as a team you look at the teams that you're coming up against. So if I look at New Zealand, for example, in that '24 World Cup, you said you got India as our most important game of that. I think England, they will say obviously West Indies and New Zealand are going to be their most important game. So how do you go How do you go hundi at that particular game? So yes, the teams are a lot closer, but you identify what your must-win games are. So I look at New Zealand playing West Indies first up, that for me is effectively a quarterfinal. So you look at so much planning around that particular game, but I don't— and that's not to lessen other games because the teams have come closer and they're a lot more competitive, but there's certain games where it's a how do I scrap and win this game and that is our most planned game versus other games where you might not have as much information. You might have to watch and stand the players bowling in warm-up to work out who does what. But there's games that you have to target. So if you've got a lesser opposition that typically 9 times out of 10 you're going to win, what's the position of the game? How do you kill the game? And your net run rate might be important because each team, especially with Australia, India, South Africa, all might beat each other and all might lose against one of those teams. So there's, there's aspects from a tournament play that you really have to take into account and look at what your draw looks like. That sounds complicated. No, it's like looking at me.

No, no, it's World Cup cricket, isn't it?

But for me, that sounds like a dangerous game. I think to target certain matches, I think you've got to go into every game thinking you're going to win every game. And that's the only way. That's what Australia have done for such a long time. That's why they've been so successful. They, they aim to come in and they dominate every single game. Because if you're suddenly thinking too far down the line, I just think that, that, that there's an opportunity there to slip up. And no team here is safe. I know England will be looking at every team in their group and going, 'We have to beat them.' And possibly more so for them with it being their home World Cup.

I think for them they must feel so important to win that opening game with all the positivity that that can start to garner. If you open your campaign with a defeat on home soil, particularly with all the other sport going on at the same time. The Football World Cup's just begun. You want, you need every little bit of ounce behind your team as possible and just start to get a wave of positivity.

And it's just that creating that winning feeling, it's the confidence of going into a game and saying, this is how we're going to do this, this is how we're going to win this game. I think when you're the hunted as well, when you're the home team, you know, teams like Scotland, Ireland, they're going to want a piece of England. They're going to want to show— and I, I remember when I first started playing for England and we played Scotland and Ireland quite a bit, and I remember those games, they were, they were tough games of cricket.

See, I've come from an experienced New Zealand side where we always tended to have to play the, the— we played India so often in the first game, or Australia, and you knew that that was you lose that game, you're pretty much out of the tournament. So I think that's the mindset of teams when you look at your draw and your first game is— every game's a must-win game and every team plays to win, but there's certain games that you know typically you're gonna beat that opposition or not. So I think there's— that's when I look back in New Zealand against India in that first game in '24, knowing if New Zealand won that game it gave them such a better chance because it put pressure. So if New Zealand lose to the West Indies in that first game, as an example, you play England last and you go, that might be end up being a must-win game in this situation, otherwise we're eliminated from the World Cup. Now I know that it sounds a negative mindset, but that's actually how teams go about planning and saying that is a game that we really— that is such a crucial game in terms of our planning and our execution because you know you're on the outset of the result of that group phase, that is a game that could be you in or out of the tournament. England, England, we see, we always tended to lose to Australia. So like even '24, you look back on that and you thought, well, more the last 10 years, you thought, oh well, we got rolled for 70-odd, but that doesn't matter because we don't have to see them in a semi-final. And neither did England, and it all worked out for New Zealand in '24. But there is definitely certain games you don't take any team lightly by any stretch of the imagination, and I think the conditions here will bring teams even closer together than what we saw in '24. But there's definitely games that are, that are more high stakes from a win and lose, especially if you think India, Australia, and South Africa in a group.

Well, we'll wrap up shortly, but Eesh said Australia are the favorites. Are they your favorites, Katie? I mean, South Africa, the ones who have made the last 3 World Cup finals across 50 and T20, but where do you see the Australian team right now in for this tournament?

Never underestimate Australia. I think they're— interestingly enough, they've just come in as the— they're just saying, look, there's no pressure on us, the pressure's on, on the defending champions in New Zealand, who probably also don't think that pressure's on them either. But I think for me, South Africa are the best balanced side within the tournament. The question that comes down on that South African side is, can they handle the pressure of actually arguably being the most— the favorite team in the tournament? And does their team come together with the additional couple of players? How well do they come together as a group and understand that role clarity, which 100% agree with each? How are they clear on what their roles are going to— like, Suné Luus is now opening the batting, Tasmin Brits has gone down to number 3, Kayla Raineker is such an important player. Dane van Niekerk probably won't get a run in, in this side. She'll be competing with Raineker, I would have thought, in terms of their 11. So for me, South Africa are the favorites, but they— how do they handle the pressure of that tag?

I, I still think Australia are the favorites. I just think the, the number of match winners they have in that lineup— I know they've disappointed in the last two World Cups and that will hurt them. They're coming here to win under Sophie Molineux. I think they enjoy her captaincy, they enjoy how she approaches the game, and that, that mental, that, that winning mentality that they just seem to grow up with from an early age. They're coming to a World Cup to win. We saw what happened after 2017. They lost in the semifinal there and they came back a much stronger team under Meg Lanning to just dominate for a few, a few years there. But look, it is wide open. The last thing I'll say about this World Cup, I remember 2009 And on the back of the One Day World Cup, we thought, okay, you know, the country are going to get behind us. We've won the 50-over World Cup, we're in the T20 World Cup final, the men have been knocked out early, we're their last hope to be able to kind of lift the trophy. We were the curtain raiser to the Pakistan-Sri Lanka game. And I remember being in the coach on the way from the hotel to the ground. And, you know, I was really excited about this is going to be a new phase for women's cricket in this country. And I looked out the window and the pub club was showcasing, they were advertising the Pakistan-Sri Lanka men's game. So there was no mention of us playing in the final of a World Cup. And that's when I was brought back down to earth and I said, yeah, we've still got a long way to go here. We now have the girls up in Piccadilly Lights. No other— yeah, Piccadilly Circus billboard. No other England team, cricket team, have ever been up there. It's going to be a phenomenal moment for the sport. And I'm really looking forward to it.

Well, the fact that, you know, memories of 2017 and the 50-over World Cup final here are so strong— that was such a transformative day, that one fixture alone— that now we've moved on even further from 2017 to 2026, another home World Cup and the final at Lord's. Following on from, I think, even that momentum visibility of the women's Test match that we staged here off the back of the, the number of years of the Hundred we've had, this ground is people are used to coming to watch women's cricket at this ground, and a World Cup final now— yep, it's going to be full here.

Let's go 16 years on, New Zealand-England in the T20 World Cup final, very first one to now— I love the synergy of that.

Esha, Katie, thank you. We will look forward massively to this T20 World Cup starting on home soil. The first match, England against Sri Lanka on the 12th, that is this Friday coming, at Edgbaston, 6:30 PM start. We've got all the games for live ball-by-ball commentary on BBC Sounds. And then the final here as well at the home of cricket is going to be an incredible spectacle. Uh, so many eyeballs on the game these days and just so much at stake with the professionalism of the game and the talent that there is on show as well.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, here we are in central London, Waterloo Bridge to be exact. It's summer It's a sunny day and it's closed. Why, I hear you ask? Well, it is the launch event for the ICC Women's T20 World Cup, and those captains behind me are getting ready for what will be a thrilling month of cricket. And they're going to play a game of cricket right here on this bridge. Nat Sciver-Brunt is alongside me. This is an unusual scene, isn't it?

Yeah, very. In London, is that what you mean? Yeah, obviously taken over, taken over Waterloo Bridge, making lots of people very unhappy, um, but in the process making a lot of people very happy indeed.

There's lots of fans down here, all the captains are here, and it— I mean, this feels big, doesn't it?

It does, yeah. Starting off with a bang, we haven't even started the tournament yet. Um, yeah, I think that obviously a lot has gone into preparing for this tournament from, from our side, but also from an organization nation side. So it's brilliant to see the sort of first stage of it. Obviously that first game on Friday will feel massive as well.

What about the tournament in general? Because England will have huge expectations because I'm sure it isn't something you're unaware of, that England have always won World Cups when they played at home.

Yes, they have.

Yeah.

Yeah. So obviously the plan is to do the same. Yeah, I think obviously, I guess trying to detach from that a bit as a team And really, I suppose, focus on what we've been doing, which, yeah, our preparation has gone really, really well. I mean, personally, my preparation could have gone a little bit better, but yeah, I'm in a great place now and really looking forward to the tournament.

Yeah, how are you? Are you fit, raring to go?

Yeah, we've got a warm-up game tomorrow, which will be my first game back.

And so no worries, no doubts, no expectation that you won't be fit for the tournament?

No, no, not from my side. Obviously, You know, things have to go well between now and Friday. But yeah, looking forward to getting that first game under my belt tomorrow.

In terms of the build-up to the tournament, it feels as though England have got a real resilience and it feels like quite a hardened England team. Is that fair?

Yeah, we've had some really good experiences and great learnings, I think, over the last probably 6 months, 9 months. And yeah, I suppose now is where we need to use them all. But the series that we've had so far has been really a great experience for us and some great competition between the teams. And yeah, England have played with a lot of confidence, which is really nice.

What about your conversations with Charlotte, the coach? How often are you speaking? And, you know, late night calls with plans and one thing and another.

Yeah, we're on each other's speeds, Al. Now we're obviously doing a lot of thinking about the team and what it should be and how this next few days will go as well. But yeah, we obviously speak a lot, maybe not late night because Lottie likes to go to bed early and wake up early. And yeah, with Theo, late night doesn't really work either. But yeah, obviously a lot of thought goes into everything that we're doing between now and Friday. So yeah, it's been really good.

In terms of the experience of a home World Cup. You've been here, you've won one, you know what it's about, and it could be a very, very special few weeks, this.

It could, yeah. Yeah, obviously standing here, you know, before the tournament starts, I suppose the expectations are high, but also I'm just really looking forward to experiencing the matches and the whole tournament. I think obviously we're trying to create something special and and trying to leave a legacy as well with the tournament. I think really harnessing that and taking a moment in each of the games to, I suppose, realise what we're part of and what we're able to do is going to be really special.

Pressure?

Always. Yeah, obviously we're the home team with a lot of expectation on us, but once, once the tournament starts, we'll see. We'll try and stick to our bubble and I suppose not let anything penetrate that and stick together in the process.

You're excited, I can tell.

I am, yeah, I am. Obviously being injured as well has kept me out of being able to play and stuff, so I've watched from the sidelines a little bit, but yeah, raring to go.

And you're not going to hit the ball into the water, apparently strict instructions.

What?

I'm going to try and hit the ball into the water.

Thank you so much. And best of luck for the tournament.

Thanks.

Australia's captain Sophie Molineux is with me, and there's rarely a cricket tournament that starts quite in this way.

Yeah, I don't think there's ever been a cricket tournament starting this way, um, to shut down a bridge and to have all these people around with this noise and vibe.

It's, um, it's pretty cool.

What about the tournament in general? How's the, how's the prep gone for your side? There's always expectation for Australia.

Yeah, there is, but our prep's gone really well. We've had a few months to build up to this and it's been so nice to get over here and play some warm-up matches and get into it. But yeah, the group's really hungry and just really excited by whatever opportunity comes at us over the next few weeks.

And for you leading this side, this is big.

It is. Yeah, it is. There's no sort of shying away from that. But I suppose at the same time, there's only so much you can, can do and can control. So I think a big part of it is about enjoying the experience, enjoying today's days like today. And yeah, just trust that, you know, the group's in a really good spot and hopefully we can deliver on the biggest stage.

I think it's fair to say that Australia go into most tournaments as favorites. Do you see the gap perhaps between you and other sides as big as it has has been?

I sort of haven't really looked at it in that way. I think maybe from results over the last, you know, 2 World Cups specifically, maybe, yeah, not winning those has changed things. But I think overall, by the, you know, the games we've won compared to losing, that hasn't changed a lot over the last few years as well. So yeah, I think the game is growing and evolving every year and I think that's what we need to keep doing as a team, as an Australian team as well. And that's what it— yeah, I've been, you know, the girls have been really big on that in the last few months building up to this.

It's quite cold on this bridge. The wind's blowing. It is breezy. But in terms of the conditions, you've got a lot of players that know England and know playing here. Home from home in a way.

Yeah, I think so. This doesn't actually feel too dissimilar to Melbourne in winter, so Yeah, look, I think there's a lot of similarities. I think the pitches might play a little bit differently to home rather than our hard, flat summer ones that we get in Australia. But at the same time, the girls have played a lot of cricket over here and completely have to trust that experience that the girls have had playing in The Hundred and playing in the Ashes series over here as well.

You can tell an Australian can never help having a little dig. Your summer's like Melbourne in winter.

Yeah, yeah. Well, today is not like— I wouldn't call this a summer, a warm summer's day.

Yeah, we had our summer last week.

I know, I missed it. I was really sad about that.

Go well in the tournament.

Thanks, Sophie. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hama Prikur, India captain, standing on a breezy bridge in central London.

Yeah, it's quite breezy, but I think we all are having fun here.

What about the tournament? You're ready, you're set?

Yeah, 100%, we are ready, we are set, and yeah, really looking forward for this.

Is this the first time that India go into a tournament as favorites?

Yeah, I think we've been always favorite, to be honest, and I think this time we are even more excited because the last World Cup gave us a lot of confidence that as a team we can do, you know, we can do wonders, we can achieve a lot together, and hopefully, you know, in this World Cup we'll play our best cricket.

There was an extraordinary reaction in this country when you won the 50-over World Cup. Does it feel like you've got that huge support here when you come?

Yeah, I think wherever we go, we always get a lot of fan support, and hopefully in this World Cup also we'll get a lot of sports.

And what's the message to supporters back in India in terms of following the tournament?

Uh, just keep supporting us, keep cheering for your favorite team, and hopefully, you know, we'll make them proud again.

Who are threats to you lifting that trophy, do you think?

Oh, I think all the teams, they are, they're quite strong. They have played really good cricket before coming here, and I think this tournament is going to be very tough. And it's only about, you know, keep, keep enjoying and keep giving your best.

Are you enjoying playing cricket on a central London bridge?

Yes, 100%. Good to see, you know, so many fans have come here and sharing some good quality time with all the captains.

Best of luck.

Cheers.

Thank you. Ireland's Gabby Lewis is alongside me. This is, uh, a peculiar way to start a tournament.

Yeah, it's crazy, it's manic, but it's great. Um, you know, shutting down one of those iconic bridges in London, it's, it's massive, and it just shows how big the tournament's going to be.

And it's big for Ireland as well. What are your expectations? What are your hopes for the tournament?

I hope we get a couple of victories. We have to get a win at a World Cup, so that would be massive for us. Um, and then, you know, not have to qualify for the next one would be a bit— would be a big one as and big game, first game against Scotland, so you never know.

What's the prep been like?

Yeah, really good. We had a tri-series against West Indies and Pakistan and we were really successful in that. So yeah, it's been really good, prepped really well.

What about the message towards sort of fans of Irish cricket more generally about this women's team and what could they achieve?

I think just to get behind us and we've been putting in the performances and, you know, it's really leading to this World Cup. So hopefully we've heard loads of fans Fans are traveling over, which I'm so excited to see at that first game at Old Trafford.

And what about players to look out for? Who's going to be your star performer?

Oh, hard to look past Orlaith Prendergast. She's been massive for us and, um, yeah, she just keeps getting better. So no doubt that she'll, she'll reach her peak, um, at this World Cup.

If someone asked me that question, I'd say me.

Yeah, maybe. I mean, hopefully. Um, but no, yeah, so many matronies on our squad, so really excited to see them shine at this World Cup.

And you're excited presumably for opportunity to be on a global stage as well for Irish cricket.

Yeah, 100%. We obviously missed out on the last one, so it makes it even more special being back now and what you've missed. And yeah, hopefully that won't happen again. Good luck.

Thanks so much.

Laura Woolfart, South Africa captain. Big expectation for your side. Exciting tournament ahead.

Yeah, very exciting. I think obviously having made the finals the last couple of times, hopefully we can go one step further this time.

You're close. So, so close. How are you going to get over the line?

Um, I think we just need to find ourselves in that final again and just play a really good game of cricket when we get there. Um, I think if we keep making them, we're bound to win one, one day. Um, and yeah, hopefully we've learned from the others and, and are able to perform well when that time comes again.

Shabnim Ismail back in the squad, that's a huge boost for you.

Yeah, she's been awesome. I think she brings so much experience and she's just gonna help out our whole bowling attack and just share all the knowledge that she has.

And it feels as though South African cricket has really benefited benefited from the fact that so many players are making a big impact overseas in the global franchise leagues as well?

Yeah, for sure. I think being able to play in The Hundred every year, I've sort of played at all the grounds we're going to play at at this World Cup. So I think that it gives me a bit of insight into the places we're playing at and you get to play with so many people and learn so much from them. So yeah, I think it helps.

And you've now played on Waterloo Bridge.

Yes, first time.

So very exciting.

Go well in the tournament. Fatima, it's an unusual place to be playing cricket on a bridge in the middle of London.

Yeah, I think it's an exciting place to play on, but I think we are here just enjoying and supporting. The guys are supporting and that is awesome.

That is something you're going to experience a lot of in this tournament, is brilliant support from Pakistan fans.

Yeah, I saw that the guys are supporting the cricket, not the opposition or not the country. So I think there's a good spirit and I really enjoyed here every time.

What are the expectations for Pakistan in this tournament?

Hopefully we will play top 4 sides.

And in terms of players to look out for in your team, who's, who's going to be the star performer?

Um, I suggest Muniba and Saadi Iqbal because they always trying to put the maximum effort in the matches. So I think Muneeba and Sadia.

As a side, Pakistan have, have got an opportunity to make a real statement here. What would— if you could get through to the top 4, it'd be a real achievement. Could you win it?

Yeah, because I believe T20 cricket is almost just on-a-day game. If you play a good cricket on a day, so you will a chance to to win the matches. So I think I have a good belief in my team, so hopefully.

Best of luck.

Thank you.

Catherine Price, Scotland captain, is with me. These conditions are slightly more familiar for those from the British Isles, but it's a funny old day this. What have you made of the launch?

Yeah, I think it's been fantastic. Just the number of people that are out here, they seem to be having a great time. It's a bit of chaos, but it's been good chaos.

What about the tournament? Because, you know, Scotland in a World Cup is— we saw in the UAE, it can be an incredible experience to grow the game for yourself.

Yeah, I think it's been fantastic, um, just kind of see— to have this so close to home as well, the number of people that be able to come out and watch. And I think it's always tough kind of your first World Cup, a lot of, a lot of unknowns. But I think there's a lot of people there that will have got a lot of experiences from that. So I think kind of going into this one, probably kind of know a bit more and just a bit of home familiarity as well, I think will help.

And what about your expectations as a side?

Oh yeah, I think we've got some good expectations. Not necessarily on outcomes of games, but I think if we go out there and perform, I think we've got a really, really strong squad that can put in some good performances and put kind of all the teams in our group under pressure.

In terms of Scottish women's cricket, there is a lot of talk talk about the lack of fixtures and how frustrating that is. Where are we with all of that? Because being at this event is big.

Yeah, it's fantastic. I think last week obviously had the Tri-Series, which was unbelievable to kind of be playing at home in front of a home crowd for the first time in a while. I think that brought a lot of support in and so many people there excited to come down and watch this event as well. So I think things like that were fantastic.

Are we going to see a big Scottish fan contingent coming down?

Yeah, I think so. There's so many people that I spoke to in the last week said they got their ticket It's just random people as well, not just family and friends. Got their tickets booked for all different venues, a lot of them in the north, which is great. And yeah, I think even a lot of the girls in England as well kind of supporting Scotland out there.

And for those that may not know much about the Scottish side, who are the players to look out for? You're allowed to say yourself.

Oh, I think Kathryn Fraser and the way that she's played has been unbelievable. Kind of up top, her and Darcy have been brilliant the way that they've kind of set the with the bat, so really looking forward to seeing that.

Best of luck in the tournament. Thank you so much. Cheers. Fantastic seeing so many supporters out, and though it has been blustery and breezy, it is just a real sense of occasion going into this tournament. Now we turn our attention to the action. It gets underway on June 12th, England against Sri Lanka at Edgbaston. All aboard the hype train, the hype for this World Cup. Who's going to be lifting the trophy? Who is going to be heading towards glory at Lord's on July 5th?