Women's World Cup: England set for semi-final showdown with South Africa

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Hello, welcome to Guwahati. Welcome to the Test Match special podcast. This is Henry Moran. After 28 group stage matches, there are now just three games left in the ICC Women's World Cup. Four from eight sides, there are now just four. It's semi final time. England against South Africa. India against Australia. We'll be hearing from the England captain, Nat Siva Brunt and we'll be reflecting on a rain affected group stage. Of course, we'll also be previewing two blockbuster games as the fight for the World cup continues.

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With me here on a balcony in steamy Assam, right in the northeastern corner of India, is the 12th 2017 World cup winner, Alex Hartley. Hello to you.

Good morning.

Good morning, BBC Sport cricket writer Fion Nguyen.

Hello to you, hello to you all.

And hello to test match special commentator Daniel Norcross.

Well, hello. Isn't it steamy and lovely?

It is steamy and it is lovely, Daniel. Come on then. Let's take a little moment to reflect on the group stages because 28 matches done and we're now out of foresight.

Yes. Problem was that it wasn't really 28 matches that was done done, was it? Because there are a lot of fixtures that didn't get done. And I think that was one of the sort of prevailing disappointments of the group stage. We asked ourselves our very first podcast we did here in Guwahati back what, four weeks ago. You know what's going to be your biggest disappointment? And I hadn't quite factored in the rain. We thought it might be crowds. The crowds have actually been all right. But the scheduling in Sri Lanka wasn't very helpful and I think it was sad because it meant that signs like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, who had shown promise and improvement over the last four years, weren't quite able to get those sort of signature surprise wins. There was hints of it. There was that brilliant day for Pakistan that was then ruined by the rain when it Looked like they were going to beat England. Sri Lanka got halfway, possibly to beating New Zealand in their own patch, getting over 250, setting a stiff chase. But, you know, look, that's a disappointment. On the plus side, we've seen some absolutely thrilling cricket. An amazing game in Vizag between Australia and India. When you really felt the atmosphere when India are playing, this tournament comes to life. And from an English point of view, it's mostly been plain sailing with just the two real disappointments. That one against Australia when they were outplayed, and that stunning moment against Pakistan, as I mentioned earlier, that didn't quite come to fruition. But otherwise I think England have been good, Australia have been predictably magnificent and India have struggled to make it through semi finals. But for the tournament, it's good that they're there.

Alex, have we got the four best teams in the semi finals?

Yeah, we've got the four teams that we thought would make it through to the semis, but maybe not in the order that we thought. You know, I thought it would be Australia at the top, then England and then India and then South Africa fourth. But actually South Africa have finished third and India have finished fourth. India, sorry, have only got themselves to blame. They've played some good cricket in parts and then some poor cricket in others, but they are the right team to qualify for the semi finals, not only because they are one of the best teams in the world, but also it's a home tournament. So that's what you want to see. You want to see the home team playing in home tournaments and especially in knockout stages.

The route that we've got here, Fion, has seen rain, it's seen frustration. Lots of conversations around the schedule and one thing and another, but ultimately, does that matter once we look at the bigger picture in terms of what we've got to come this week in the semi finals, if it is indeed the four strongest sides.

Yeah, you could argue that the rain didn't, you know, might not have made a huge difference in terms of the four teams that would have ended up in the semi finals. It would have taken something really special for somebody like a Sri Lanka, a Bangladesh, a Pakistan to get there. But the frustration is that they were pretty much denied the chance to prove something. So we, as Dan was saying, we were all kind of expecting a shock here. And then that's what it's. That's what it has taken out. It has taken out the kind of shock result. The storylines that we might not have expected, you know, the. There was a little wobble as you said, England versus Pakistan, that would have been an incredible story, an incredible surprise. And those kind of giant killing stories. That's, that's what it has lacked in terms of the rain because those are the sides that have been affected in New Zealand and that as well.

I saw Channel 7 put a table out of teams. Australia first, England second. Washouts above Australia. And that's the most disappointing thing, isn't it? The washouts have been the main story of this tournament. You know, Colombo, the games being there. We knew what was going to happen. We knew it was going to rain. It's monsoon season. Nobody has been surprised with what's happened there. It's just disappointing that we all knew it was going to happen, yet the tournament was still scheduled there.

Well, I have asked the ICC for clarification as to firstly why Sri Lanka was chosen as the alternative venue for Pakistan to play their matches and also why the matches needed to happen at 3pm as opposed to in the morning when the weather was much more settled. They've said they'll get back. To me, that was over a week ago. I've chased a couple of times since and still heard nothing. So as soon as we do hear something, we will of course bring that information to you. But as yet we have not heard any clarification on that.

Yeah, and it actually, it is actually the 3 o' clock point is the one that I'm most interested in the clarification on, because I do understand the UAE's had a lot of cricket going on there. It's very expensive as well. There'll be a lot of games that have to take place there. I do get it. And there was a certain elegance to Sri Lanka as a solution. But the thing is, and cricket administrators around the world do this, it isn't just the ICC. We had a similar situation. 100 ALS, last game was washed out. The men got to play, the women didn't. There are frustrations that take place all the time because, because of weather that you can't predict. But it's when you can predict, when you can predict that it is going to be bad light because it's September, that you can predict it's going to rain at about 4:35 o' clock because it does it every year. You just bring it back, you bring the timing back to 11 o'. Clock. It should be simple. Hopefully the next time there is a tournament in Sri Lanka and they sort of do have to happen in October quite a lot. Let's be clear, it's not Capricious you know, you've got a Women's Premier League to fit in, you've got a big Bash League. There's a lot of other cricket going on. So October was the right time to do it. But if it's going to be October, just, just take note of history because sometimes what happens in the past is a fairly good indicator to what might happen in the future.

Well, we'll get onto Australia's inevitable path towards the final in Duke. No, we don't know what's going to happen. We've got our suspicions but we will get onto that second semi final shortly. First of all though, England against South Africa. Let's hear from the England camp. I spoke to skipper Nat Sivabrant at the team hotel early on this morning before the semi final against South Africa.

Well, Nat, South Africa World cup semi final. What are you expecting?

A great contest? I think obviously we played them a long time ago in this competition. It feels like, yeah, ages ago. And the game was obviously very one sided. But yeah, can't go in expecting that again. They've obviously had some brilliant close games, some huge chases, lots of runs from the middle to lower order. So yeah, I think a brilliant contest.

What impact does that tournament opener have on this fixture?

Same venue, same opponent.

I mean, the parallels are unusual.

Yeah, yeah, they are. I guess it actually reminds me a bit of when we played India in 2005, 2017 in the first game and then obviously met them in the final. So you get a second crack at it, don't you? But yeah, I mean, we can't go into that expecting that it'll be the same. Hopefully, you know, if we can get a couple of wickets that the, the pressure, yeah, will mount up on them and we can really use that to our advantage. But obviously I think there's going to be pressure, you know, throughout the game being a semi final. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Sophie Ecclestone's fitness was the big concern after the New Zealand match. How is she?

Yeah, she's all right. She had a scan after the game. She does have a minor injury. But yeah, we're expecting her to be all right. I mean, such a huge player for us. So yeah, it'd be great for her to be on that pitch tomorrow because.

It meant you had to do some.

On the spot shuffling of plans and everything else.

Do you have a backup plan in place for such a circumstance?

Yeah, obviously you saw Sophia Dunkley bowl a couple of overs. Initially I was like, well, I'm probably gonna have to bowl 10, Capsie's probably gonna have to bowl 10. Yeah, I guess we've got got options like you say. But yeah, Dunks has been bowling in the net. So I think. I think Lottie did give her a tap on the shoulder like a few weeks ago and be like, I think you are gonna bow at some point in this competition. So, yeah, no, she. She was actually really good. I mean, a little surprised that she was like, what? Now it's like, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, she. She took it on really well.

There was a change to the team in the last match. Danny Wyatt, Hodge coming into the side. Can we expect to see the same 11 tomorrow?

Yeah, I guess making a change for a semi final would be quite tough on. On whoever's coming in or out to the side. So, yeah, I would expect Seja.

And there was a shuffling of that.

Middle order as well in terms of who batted where. What was the thinking behind that?

Yeah, I guess just changing up roles a little bit. Sue Dunks has been batting at five for the tournament so far, but I think the role at six, obviously that's only, you know, one spot down, isn't it? But yeah, the role at six could have a potentially in the last 10 overs where I think she can be really destructive. So, yeah, that was the thinking how.

Much you enjoy captaining at a World cup because you played plenty of them as a member of the squad, but captaincy is a different responsibility.

Yeah, definitely. I've been really enjoying it. I think I'm loving the, I guess, individual ways that you talk to different people and different bowlers especially. I think just make. Trying to make them feel as comfortable as possible to get the best out of them, I suppose. Yeah, I suppose as a captain you're sort of making those decisions, but ultimately you're not the one bowling the ball. So, yeah, I think for me, trying to make them feel as best they can and as confident as they can. Yeah, it's been really important.

How different is this side in this World cup compared to previous tournaments?

I suppose, like personnel wise, it's not too different. Obviously not too dissimilar to what we had in the summer, but I think the clarity of role that everybody has and the skills that they've developed to perform that role has really shifted. And yeah, I've been really impressed with everybody taking that accountability and responsibility and what they want to work on and what they want to get out of themselves. I suppose so, yeah. I think individually we're in a great place.

That dynamic between you And Charlotte Edwards, how does it reveal itself on the field?

I guess all the pre planning meetings and I suppose tactics a little bit. That's probably how it comes out most obviously. A few messages here and there around drinks and stuff. But I guess before the games, the four of us, me, Charlie, Sofia and Tammy, all sort of get the information and then I guess working together on that pitch to make sure we're all, you know, working towards the same target is, I guess, how we've been doing it so far.

And off the field with Charlotte Edwards, in terms of planning for a semi final and a final and your path.

Through the group stages, how's that relationship worked?

It's been really good. I think, you know, mostly we've been on the same page about different things that have happened so far and yeah, I mean, obviously she's got a massive cricket brain and a huge passion for the England women's side. So, yeah, it's been a great experience working with her during this World cup and yeah, hopefully it will continue to be.

Any surprises in terms of how the dynamics be?

No, not really. I guess the only thing is she's just massively different from when she was a player. I think being a coach you can see things from the outside and see how, I guess how different people work and different people care about, you know, what they're doing. So, yeah, she's got a great, I guess, insight into obviously what being a player is and how that feels. But then, yeah, she can see it from the other side. So, yeah, she's obviously brought that different side to her. And yeah, it's really great to use that.

It's a tournament for you personally that will be different because you're captain, but also different because of the fact that personally you're away from Theo and you're away from Catherine for a lot of time. How's that been?

It's been pretty tough at times. Yeah, I just miss them, miss them so much. Obviously they managed to come out to Sri Lanka which, yeah, Catherine was very brave in taking that flight on her own. But yeah, I mean, to see him halfway through the tournament was a huge boost. So, yeah, I mean, when, when you get towards the end of a competition and, you know, when that, that time is that you can see them again, gets close, I think it gets a bit harder. So, yeah, we're certainly missing each other and really looking forward to seeing them both again.

And what would it mean to lead England in a World cup final? Have you considered that prospect?

I'll allow myself to consider it. A bit today and then, you know, by the time we get to training, probably I'll be focused on that, obviously, the semi final. But, yeah, I mean, I would absolutely pinch myself if I was able to do that the first time around, I suppose. So seeing them have got a great legacy in World cups and see 50 over World Cups especially. So, yeah, to do all of the people that have gone before proud in getting to the final would be absolutely massive. It would mean a lot to me.

And you know that as a player that has so much success, so much history in the game, there is something different about being a captain and leading a side and getting through a tournament which has had its challenges.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I guess having the added responsibility of. Yeah, I guess being the leader of the side is something different, but something I've really enjoyed, I guess. Yeah. Putting myself out there and, you know, defending us if we need to, or showing the way or whatever it is. Leading by example is basically what I wanted to do and hopefully everyone wants to follow, I guess. Yeah, if we can cultivate that sort of relationship as a side. Yeah, hopefully the world will be our oyster.

Well, Fion, the key news from all of that is the fitness of Sophie Ecclestone. And the statement from the ECB is that the results of an MRI scan on Sophie Eccleston's left shoulder indicate a minor injury to the joint next to her collarbone. She will continue to be assessed ahead of Wednesday's semi final against South Africa. Optimistic is the feeling and certainly seems to be the case from what Matt Siver Brunt was saying.

Yeah, they seem, they seem confident. It was a. It was a. She'll be okay without, you know, explicitly saying that she will be okay. But if England were without their best bowler for the semi final, that would be a huge, huge blow. She's had a magnificent tournament. All of England's spinners have, actually. It's been their, their biggest weapon. And the fact that they're playing back in Guatei, which we saw was a slow pitch, a turning pitch, they'll be absolutely desperate to get her involved, to get her in the 11. But if, you know, if there is a scenario where she's not quite right, and it may be she pulls up sore in the morning, that's a, A huge call to make in the sense of, do you, do you risk her for the semi final and then if England win, if she makes it worse, if they make it to the final, or do you think, well, we could beat South Africa without her, let's just save her It's a really, really big call to make but fingers crossed. They seem optimistic that she'll be all right.

Yeah, I think that's the thing, isn't it? If they're saying that she'll be all right then I think she'll play. To be honest, I think she has to play Knockout tournament for me you play your best 11. Having said that, if they need to bring in another spinner they've got Sarah Glenn on the side who is a brilliant spinner, keeps the spot, stumps in play, turns the ball away from the right hander. So they have got options. If so decides or the ECB sorry decide that she isn't fit, fit to play that game. But I would, I would think we'll see her on the pitch.

What about the narrative that was played down understandably by Nat Siva Brunt there Daniel of the opening fixture of the tournament how it doesn't reflect what's going to happen in, in the game that we're going to see in the semi final at the same venue. But he a It's an interesting parallel.

It is cuz I don't think South Africa really set up for a Guilharti semi final. They like to go seam heavy. Their spinners are not big turners of the ball. They got Malaba, Chloe Tryon but they're not the spinners that England have got for those kind of circumstances. And England have got the kind of wild card of Lindsay Smith opening the bowling in those steamy conditions. Actually sort of getting a little bit of indrift into the right handers which South Africa strikes struggled with so much. I mean that was what broke the game open the first time. You would say that surely South Africa can't play that badly again. I mean they're bowled out for under 70 and England won with 35 overs to spare, 10 wickets in hand. It's not going to be like that you wouldn't think. But South Africa's last game against Australia they did the same sort of thing. They kind of boom or bust team and that's exemplified by their openers and especially Tasman Brits who either seems to get 100 or she gets single figure scores. So you just don't really know which South Africa is going to turn up. They were really impressive in recovering from that loss, you know that that would have done awful things to other teams. And then they played some brilliant cricket, you know, beating India for example, Nadine de Klerk down the order. They'd showed great resilience in winning games. They Looked like they weren't going to win coming back from games where they looked like they were going to lose and shock defeats, but potentially against the likes of Bangladesh say. But England are going to be favorites. And for those of you who like portents, by the way, the last time England won the 50 over World cup or indeed any World Cup, 2017, England played South Africa in a semi final and India played Australia in a semi final. So, you know, I don't know, does that float your boat? Sort of floats mine.

Well, we shall wait and see. It's an interesting one. You might need a boat in Navi Mumbai, by the way. Looking at the flight forecast, Tasmir, Brits. Yeah. Unpredictable to say the least. F on 100 against New Zealand, 55, not out against Sri Lanka. But she's got three ducks and 11 runs across five other innings. I mean, you just don't know what you're going to get with South Africa.

No. And she's that sort of player and so she's very aggressive at the top of the order. That's kind of her brief, I suppose, from the South African management. So with that style of play, you probably do assume it is probably going to be inconsistent and they're prepared for that with her. But Laura Wolfar is the kind of much more elegant, much more classy opener than the captain who's just started to find her feet after a bit of a slow start. So I, I can't imagine. I agree with Dan that England are firm favorites mainly because of the conditions and the spinners. I can't imagine we'll see a performance as bad from South Africa. I think they'll definitely have learned from that. They'll definitely have prepared better for Lindsay Smith and the threat that she poses in the power play. But I think, yeah, we've also seen England batting wise come unstuck on that pitch, notably against Bangladesh losing 7 for 70 or whatever it was. So I think, you know, a finger bat first. That's also another thing that they're really going to have to, to think about because it's not, it's not going to be the flat surface of Faisal and Indoor that they've played on for the past three games. So they're gonna have to go back and adapt again and that that's what they this tournament is. It's so many different venues, it's so many different conditions times a day. They're going to have to adapt quickly.

What about Alex, the threat from South Africa? Where, from England's perspective, do they need to Be cautious.

I think on the sticky wickets, the Spinners, they might get a couple to hold. We know that they've struggled with the ball turning away. Alana King for example has torn England apart on a number of occasions. They don't really have an Alana King Maran cap with the, the new ball, she might get it to nip around a little bit. There has also been some question marks on her fitness and is she at the top of her game having not bowled her allotted overs on a number of occasions. So you know Marisan cap with the new ball, she, she is always dangerous but there's always opportunities at the other end. When you play in a team like South Africa, yes, they've got in swing bowlers but they're just not as good as the likes of India and Australia. So for me, England real firm favorites. They've just got to be sensible. But it is building in innings and you know, England have been heavily reliant on Nativa Brunt and Heather Knight. You know, they have been for a while now, but they've also fired in this tournament. But Alice Capsi in the previous game up the order a little bit. Danny Wyatt Hodge coming in, that just gives me a little bit more confidence.

We know that the signal team's going to be the same from what Natsa Brunt was saying. Daniel?

Yeah, I just as I was talking there just occurred to me what a match of contrast this is. You know, South Africa have got Sude Elise batting at 3, which to me is about two places too high. They're sort of top order once you get through the openers looks really brittle for England. Their strength lies in their top four and then their middle order looks really brittle and then you've got a South African side which is mostly built around sea the likes of Kaka and Cap and for England it's mostly built around spin. So that's why we keep saying that England are favourites in these conditions at Guwahati. But then we'd be confounded by pitches before you know they're not the same pitches just because it's the same venue we found at Colombo. You could play there, didn't we? One game would be very spin friendly and you know, 200 would be a tough ask. And then the next time the spinner Seamus doing all the damage. It's Fateh Masana that ripped England apart with the in swing. So you just. I don't think we know but what we do know is it's to going to be fun because it's two sides that set up so very differently, have totally different strengths and weaknesses, and that's what kind of makes for an exciting game ahead of the tournament.

The general feeling was if England didn't make the semi finals, that would be a failure. Given what we've seen, if they don't make the final Fon, would that be a failure?

I don't think it would be a failure. I think England have been good without being great yet, and that can be seen as quite an exciting thing. Quite a good thing because Charlotte Edwards has actually said the whole way through that, you know, she's been saying the best is yet to come. And they'll be hoping that a knockout stage will bring out the best because they know they've got to be at the top of their game. I think it's going to be a really, really big test of the kind of narrative that followed England probably for the past year or so is how they perform against teams that they're expected to be beat. And then, you know, we've saw it in the T20 World cup where under pressure, it all fell apart. So, you know, they have been under pressure at times in this tournament, but obviously without the kind of knockout, you know, context to it. So I think it's a really big opportunity for them to kind of quite, you know, shut people up a little bit in that sense of, you know, that they can prove that this is a different England team. They've been telling us for the whole time that this is a different England team and there have been batting wobbles. Their bowling generally has. Has been very, very good and their fielding has been really much improved. I think there are still a few question marks, particularly of the middle order batting, but if they can get over the line under the context of a knockout game. There's always pressure in a knockout game, regardless of who you're playing. We saw that against the West Indies. It wasn't a semi final, but with what was on the line, I think this would be a big, big tick in that box for both Charlotte Edwards and Nat Siva Brunt, if they can put that narrative to bed.

Yeah, I think they've sort of been doing that, haven't they? Slowly but surely throughout this tournament. And they've gone away from inspiring, entertain and just gone in to find ways to win. And that's what's entertaining when you're watching your team win. You know, as fans, you want to watch England win, and it's inspiring when they are winning and they're finding ways to win. Can I say win Any more time times in that couple of sentences. I'm not quite sure I can but it is, it's good fun watching them and you know, they've. There's been some nitty gritty games where they've found ways to get over the line and rather than find ways to lose, they've been finding ways to win. And that's what's impressed me. They've just got to do it when they're under the pump now.

Yeah, I mean it's interesting if you analyze the matches that they've played, they absolutely thrashed New Zealand and South Africa and those are two of the sides that they were under pressure because it's really a top five and four trying to get into the semi finals and England did really well against them. They got surprised by Bangladesh and Pakistan who are two non batting sides that go long on spin and actually they could easily have lost both of those games. But as Al said, they dug in against Bangladesh, against Sri Lanka they were the stronger side. I mean there was the odd wobble but they won very convincingly by 89 runs. The other two semi finalists, they were outplayed for large parts of the those games. Australia did frankly thrash them with 10 overs to spare. And India, well, India will be wondering to this day how they managed to lose that game. But what intrigues me is that actually against a, a batting side rather than a bowling side, which is what India is, England's bowling is able to stay in it because even when that rate gets up to six, you can still Lindsay Smith can come on to bowl and she can bowl a couple of overs that go for three or four and suddenly that rate goes up. So they can take the game really deep, deeper I think than other teams can. And they're more of a threat against sides with strong batting weirdly than they are against sides with weak batting, stronger bowling. And so that's why it's a really good matchup against South Africa. And then whoever they play, if they win that game in the final will be a really tough ask. Either India at home in front of a very excitable crowd or I would, I'm going to say this, the best sports team in their category in the world, Australia, those. I, I don't think there is another team that dominates their sport like Australia does.

I think that's probably fair, all things considered. We'll get onto that semi final in just a moment. But Alex, how will Charlotte Edwards be preparing this England side, you think?

I think in exactly the same way as she has throughout you know, she's calm, she'll just be. They'll go to training today, they'll do everything they need to. You know, you don't change how you put prepare aside just because you're in a knockout game. So everything will stay the same for Charlotte Edwards. I've never been coached by her, I've never played under her. You know, she stepped aside as England captain when I, when I came into the side. So I've never actually experienced her way of coaching or her way of leading a team, but I can only imagine it's quite calm at times and also fun. So what I do know is that, you know, everything that they've done from game one, they will be doing to the semi finals.

Well, we shall wait and see how it all plays out. In a moment, we'll be looking ahead to the second semi final between India and Australia, where the forecast in Navi Mumbai is far less certain than it is here in Guwahati. Remember, every ball of every game of this tournament available to listen to on BBC Sounds. Plus, not far away from the start of the Men's Ashes Test match special, bringing live coverage and so much more besides, it all gets underway on November 21st.

Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

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The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds.

So here in India, it is semi final time as Charlotte Edwards actually herself wanders past here at the Table Hotel. Actually, she's going to retire because it's a little bit too hot, but she's, she's been running, she's taken one look.

I'm glad she didn't hear that answer. I just sad about.

She's taken one look at the weather and is heading back inside. But Daniel, it is lovely and steamy and hot here in Guwahati. It is less certain in Navi Mumbai where India take on Australia. And that could be significant.

Well, it could. We have a reserve day now that we get to the semifinals, but the problem we've been having in Mumbai is that it has been raining sort of relentlessly now. Just check the latest forecast. And whilst today as we speak, it's expected to pour down with rain again and tomorrow pouring down rain again. The game's not till Thursday and Thursday just has dollops of rain Friday. I say dollops little you know, the light rain which could be annoying and keep them off from while but it's supposed to get better later in the day. They will make absolutely certain that that game gets completed I'm sure as long as it doesn't pour with rain. Because apart from anything else, no one wants to see a washout. But India finished fourth in the group, Australia finished top. If they don't get a result Australia would march straight through to the final. It'd be a very unsatisfactory thing to have happen especially in a home World cup. But it's been weirdly unseasonal. You know when we did the World cup al you and me, the men's World cup two years ago is around this time of year and we didn't actually get that rain certainly on, not on that side of the country. You tend to get it up in the north Guwahati where we are now and down south but over there not so look I think it's, I think we're going to be fine. Let's not catastrophize about it. And it will be such an event because the DY Patel Stadium is the de facto home of women's cricket now in India and India's really embraced women's cricket in the last three or four years. The arrival of the wpl. Yet you can't move on social media for videos of seven, eight year old girls playing absolutely perfect forward defensives and crunching cover drives. This vast country has got vast resources and suddenly they've really, really got into women's cricket. So they're going to be a force to reckon with over the next 15, 20 years. Are they ready yet to take on the best side in the world? The jury's out. They weren't quite up to the mark were they when they played them in Vizag. The game that you saw although they gave them a pretty good go putting on 330 odd but it turned out to be about 32 few. And I'd be interested in your guys views but to me I kind of reach a conclusion. The only way you beat Australia is you've got a bat second and you've got to be bold because your only hope is that Australia can knock off anything that's set. You've just got to hope that they don't quite know what it is they.

Need to set by bold you mean bold and brave. Not bold middle stump out of the ground.

I mean exactly that. Yes, yes. Although that can happen without. Annabel Sutherland is bowling 74 mph Dart backers as we saw against England.

Yeah, it's. It still feel. Even though India haven't been at their best, as we said, it still feels like they are the team most likely to beat Australia. Whether that is because of the home crowd or because of, you know, they've got, they've got a bit of history against Australia in semi finals before, as we know. But I'm with Dan on the, on the batting front. It's the depth that they've got that just makes chasing just. They make it look so easy. They made that chase of 330. I know. You know, there was a, a couple of wobbles but in the end they. India were 20 short. They made it the chase against England look like a walk in the park, even when they'd lost four early wickets. And there's. There's a brilliant piece on the BBC sport website looking into how you could possibly be Australia.

Is it very good. Who wrote it? Fion.

I. I don't want to name Drop.

I've heard she's an excellent writer.

But looking at their batting there are just. That's, that's where they lead the way because as we said, they've got all rounders. They've got Georgia Wareham at 8. Ali McGrath didn't even need to bat against England. It's just ridiculous. But you can't really see many weak links. So against pace they're averaging 43 and striking at 107. Against spin they're averaging 40 and striking at 92. They've got the highest run rate in the middle overs. They've got an average opening partnership of 73. They're scoring at over six runs and over in the power plate. It. You know that that's. And you know you swap out Alyssa Healey and it. Georgia V hasn't exactly lit things up, but it hasn't made a huge amount of difference in terms of actually winning games of cricket. And that's. Yeah, that's what's you. You take three wickets, Annabelle Sutherland strides and you're thinking she's had three single figure scores. This is England's way in. Now she just strolls to 98, not out. Ash Gardner hits 100 off 69 balls. It's the way they make it look so easy and it's so impressive.

I think you've got to make them take risks so if you get them four down early like England did, you don't just push out the field. You don't just have four out straight away. You want somebody like Ash Gardiner to want to go over the top because she's an aggressive player and, you know, they find, you know, you put four out mid on, mid off, out deep, mid wicket, deep cover, whatever your field may be, and they will find those singles. So what you have to do and then they will adapt and then they're in. And once you're 20 off, 20, you're in on a surface like you know they've been playing on, especially when you're in Navi Mumbai. So keep that field up and let them make mistakes because they are human, they are going to make mistakes. Ash Gardner, yes, she looks brilliant against England, knocking the ball down the ground. But if mid on and mid off were up, she's going to take them on. And that's where the, the risk reward comes in. So I think you bowl first, you put them under pressure, but you keep trying to apply pressure. And yes, there are times, games where you need to have four fielders out to not concede boundaries, but there are also times in games where you have to be happy to concede a boundary to create other pressures.

There are some players that have certain weaknesses. Let's not forget Ash Garden does seem to have a bit of a weakness against offspring when she first starts. And England in Charlie Dean have got somebody who's very capable of exploiting that. Charlotte Edwards knows all about this. We see her every day. She's wandering around with her iPad, asked her about it, says, yep, she's always taking notes. She'll have plans for every single one of them when it comes to how to get them out. What I want to see more of with the bat is I get trying to take the game deep, but 250, 260 isn't going to beat Australia. You have to risk it. If you get bowled out for 160 and you lose the game, so be it. What England didn't do against Alana King was get after her. Nat Silverbrunt did, got out immediately and then everybody else went into their shell.

But India arguably did take it up. They scored 330.

Yeah, they did, but they were so they were batting first.

That's what I mean. They were bolder, they were brave.

Yeah. And at 294 for 4, they were doing it exactly right. Unfortunately, they collapsed in a heap. We got 36 for 6 at the back end and that can happen. And they were being bowled and they were trying to do that, but 363/70 might have won them the game. And so I thought they played that game game really, really well until the last, what was it, six overs or so? You were there and it was. These things can happen, can't they? But the route to success against them has to be fearless cricket. Cuz you're not going to win through attrition.

I think as you said Henry, they scored India scored 330and, and took them on. But I think part of that is you can as an. They are so good that as an opponent you can do everything right. You can score 330, 340 and you know, bowl pretty well and bat pretty well and take your chance in the field. But they are that good that sometimes it won't matter because the psychological edge that Australia have over everyone is that you've got to put your perfect, perfect, perfect game together while also hoping that they make a few mistakes and they don't do it very often.

Alex, you've just shown me a couple of pictures from Navi Mumbai which looks like it might be slightly more suitable for a rowing regatta than it does for a game of cricket.

Well, that or Glastonbury Festival. You know, it's very muddy. It's. Yeah, it doesn't look great. There's floods everywhere. It's. I don't know how I would describe that. It looks like some sort of cow field, doesn't it? So it's not going to be.

That's not the outfield by the way. That's just the entrance to one of the walkways to the ground.

Yeah, but that's just showing how much water has come down and you know how, how wet it is in Navi Mumbai. So they've got a big job on their hands. The ICC to, to clear all that up before the semi final on Thursday.

It's going to be a big crowd. It is going to be a crowd.

That are not watching.

Pratica Raul. The top of the order for India. Horrible twisted ankle has ruled her out the tournament. So Shefali Verma gets an opportunity at the top of the order.

Well, that's if she plays. That's if she plays. Harleen D for me, I think she might go up to the top. She's not had the best tournament with the back back but then you can bring back in Amond core and I think that for me that's more important having Amond in the middle alongside Jamima Rodrigues, giving you a Little bit of stability in the middle. However, however if Shfali Verma comes in, she's a destructive player at the top and I, the message to her would be go out and put the Australia bowlers under pressure because the two opening bowlers for Australia, Megan Shoot and Kim Garth is for me their only weakness. Weakness in the team in that their only weakness at all either of them once they get going and they get settled, very, very destructive bowlers. But if you can put them off at the top of the order then they do occasionally leak runs. But I don't know if Shefali will play. I hope she does but I, I think they want to get Amondrop back in.

We should wait and see. It's interesting to, to see how India do approach this and it'll be interesting to see what the reaction would be Daniel, if they didn't quite qualify, which the probability is against Australia they wouldn't. But you never know what would be the impact on Indian cricket if they didn't make that marquee final.

Well, I, I don't know that it would be a huge impact. The impact would be if they do. So it's. Look, no one I think is expecting them in the wider world of cricket to beat Australia. Indian die hard fans will be because that's their default mechanisms where they expect to be. But Indian crickets come along a very long way and I think what they'll be hoping for most of all is a proper shootout. So they've got the conditions right, they've got the batters right. It's the sort of lineup that we keep saying that can beat Australia for the simple reason that they bat so deep. With Rishi Gosh down at number seven, she's had a really good tournament. Snay Rana at nine, they can still hit sixes all the way down that order. They've got Smriti Mandala, the leading run scorer. Pratikira Waal's loss is a big one but actually she's got a lot of runs but she's not got a massively high strike rate. And when you come onto a pitch where we're expecting 300 plus to be the bare minimum, then someone like Shefali Verma getting, you know, a 35 ball 60 at the top of the order might be exactly what they need to climb into Australia's opening bowlers. And if India do win, it could be the game changer for women's cricket that the 1983 men's win against the West Indies was. And there are certain Parallels there. The West Indies in 1983 in the men's game were the same dominant force as the Australian women are today. No one gave India a prayer of winning that game. They won it and it completely transformed the outlook of world cricket and that's why we're sort of speculating like this. But I tell you, if India don't win it this time, I think in four years time or eight years time, they're going to be there. And thereabouts I saw their under 19s and they were fantastically gifted on their way to winning the title last December. There's so much talent coming through Indian cricket, it's a juggernaut that won't be stopped.

I think they make a really good opening pair though, with Smriti Mandana taking advantage of the power play and Practica just knocking the ball around. She's, they've got the two highest run scorers in this competition and I think that has set the tone for the rest of the team moving forward. I understand that maybe sometimes when you have somebody that's not rotating the strike as freely, it can put pressure on other batters. We've, we saw it with Tammy Beaumont when she was 70 not out and Sophia Dunkley was 12 off 33. It put pressure on Beaumont, but I think, I think, think they've been a brilliant opening pair and, and unfortunately for her, she's out the tournament. But I think with them together they make a dangerous opening pair because I, I, I just feel they suit each other really nicely. But I'm with Dan. You know, if, if Shfali Verma comes in for her first game and gets a 30 ball 60, she will set that stadium on fire. And my word, will it be good to watch.

Right then, simple question. Who are your finalists? Fion?

Australia and England.

Daniel.

It's got to be, hasn't it? We'd love it to be England and India, but it's got to be Australia and England.

I want to be different, obviously.

Well, you are quite different, Alex.

I'm going to go England, India.

Oh, you're going for it.

And I could be wrong. Probably I'm wrong, but I just want to be different to you lot.

Well, that's fair enough. Thank you very much indeed to Alex to fill on and to Daniel. Semi finals get underway Wednesday morning. England against South South Africa here in Guwahati at 9:30 in the morning Test match. Special coverage from 9:15. It's the same timings on Thursday with India against Australia in Navi Mumbai. That is the venue for Sunday's final. Incidentally, and don't forget, do subscribe to the Test Match special podcast on BBC Sounds. Make sure you miss nothing from tms, including all the analysis and reaction from this World Cup. Plus no Balls, the cricket podcast with Alex and Kate Crossbed. Special interview this week with Elisa Healey, the Australia captain. And there's so much to look forward to from the Men's Ashes as well. Lots of podcasts for you to enjoy already, including episodes from our from the Ashes series, amazing stories from the former England Fast boulder Stuart broad, also the 2005 Ashes winning captain Michael Vaughan. And if that isn't enough, we've got a special episode just released assessing what makes an away Ashes win. Just such a challenge. That's all for this episode of the TMS podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll speak to you again soon.

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