Women's World Cup: TMS touches down in India!

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You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live. Hello from Guwahati. We are in the TMS bus on our way to the ACA Stadium. Sun shining, traveling down the hill and it is a beautiful part of the world. A temperature of around about 35 degrees. Feels like 42 apparently. So I think the players that are going to be out there in the middle in the opening stages of this Women's World cup will know all about it as we travel down the road. The normal sort of sights and sounds of this extraordinary part of the world with all sorts of tuk tuks in the road ahead of us, motorbikes everywhere you look and the most wonderful sights and sounds of India as well. The Test match special team here in India. Me, Henri Moran, Daniel Norcross, World cup winner Alex Hartley and BBC Sport cricket writer Phion win every ball of every game of the tournament available to listen to on BBC Sounds. So what of England and their chances during this World Cup? Champions, of course, eight years ago, Alex, you were part of that side. It feels to me this is a World cup where they have as little pressure on them as any I can remember, actually.

Yeah, I mean, there's always a little bit of pressure with World Cups, isn't there? But yeah, I think for England, it's almost like go out and prove what you can do. We all know what happened in the Ashes at the start of the year. 16 nil to Australia. It almost feels like this World cup has come around a little bit too soon. Charlotte Edwards has only just taken over this team. She's not really managed to implement everything and all the changes she would have wanted, I imagine. I obviously don't know that. It feels slightly too soon for me. However, that could give the girls a little bit of freedom. And like we were in 2017, the underdogs can almost suit England.

Daniel, would you agree with that assessment?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, since the last 50 overworld cup, which they had a pretty poor bit of luck, didn't they, when rain did not. Did not particularly help them out. Since that last one, we've had two T20 World Cups and they've been really under the spotlight in both of those. Firstly, out in South Africa, when they lost to the host South Africa again, they probably would look back on and think they should have won. And then the absolute calamity in Dubai when they ended up playing a de facto quarterfinal against the West Indies, who haven't even qualified for this World Cup. And they just had a nightmarish day, dropped so many catches. And that was followed very quickly by the Ashes mauling. And so you almost feel like people have sort of slightly fallen out of love with the team, which is not really fair on them. They had one really bad day at the office and then they got taken apart by the best side in the world. Sid, switch time. Of course, they've got a new coach, but I think I'm with Alex Hartley on this. It feels a little bit too early to be assessing how Charlotte Edwards has got on. They lost a home series against India, they're not going to be among the favourites. And maybe Alex is right. That might give them just a little bit more freedom, I should say.

As we head down the hill, I can see a motorcyclist with a Virat Kohli shirt on in the distance, which is a very regular sight when traveling around India. Theon, it almost seems unbelievable that that Women's Ashes series was only earlier this year. It feels a lot has happened in the time that we've seen since then.

Yeah, it feels like. I mean, there has been a lot of changes which were probably inevitable. Heather Knight moving on, John Lewis being removed from his position. But I think as much as we were saying, or, you know, you and Alex were saying, that they're not under a huge amount of pressure in terms of the expectation to win. What they are under, which maybe hasn't happened as much in the past, is they will get a lot of scrutiny and a lot of attention, which we felt in the Ashes, that the amount of attention it got probably took them and us by surprise, to be honest. Just in terms of how much it kind of gathered pace as soon as things started to go wrong. So they will be aware of that that is going to come based on those performances, based on how they do. Charlotte Edwards has already said that a semi final is the bare minimum expectation for England. So, yeah, if they fall short of that and if, you know, again, if we start seeing the same kind of mistakes in the field, struggling under pressure, then you know those questions are going to come up again.

Alex, you'd agree with that. Quite quickly the narrative can switch and a team with patience loses it.

I think sometimes we can be quite harsh. I think if we're going to try and give them patience, we have to try and give them patience. And I think, you know, yes, there is going to be scrutiny on the team, but things don't change overnight. And I've been saying it all summer when the team have been having a hammering from the media and the commentators, that actually, just because you've got a new captain and a coach doesn't mean to say that they're instantly going to be better in the field. These things can take a year for the team to get better. So obviously if they are poor in the field, then it will be incredibly frustrating to watch. But as I said, things don't happen overnight.

I think what might happen stand to their advantage in this tournament is that unlike in T20s where you are in a group of four or five, isn't it? And you don't get to play every team in this, it's a proper round robin. So there's eight teams, they're going to play all seven other teams. You can have a bad day at the office. It's how they bounce back from that. They're going to have a variety of different conditions in which they're going to play in. So instead of that kind of repeated mauling that they got the hands of Australia, where you're coming up against the same team time and time again and that must be difficult. You know you've been beaten and then you, you look up, you play exactly the same players. This time, if they lose a game, the next game they play will be an entirely different side. You wipe the slate clean. So I think in a way that might work to their advantage and of course, because all the other teams play each other, then any surprise or upset could work to their advantage. If, say, for example, Sri Lanka would have put an upset against South Africa because let's be realistic, India and Australia are the strong favorites to get through to the last four and Then England are probably in a group of three, aren't they? Probably New Zealand, South Africa and England. So it'll be fascinating to see how that plays out. Those are the results you've got to be looking out for. How do England get on against what are in effect, their nearest rivals and how maybe some of the underdogs get on against them? Chulan could be playing all their games at home, pretty much. Not all, but pretty much. So they might spring a surprise, they might beat South Africa. That might do England a favour. So I think the format is perhaps going to play to their advantage.

I also think keeping a close eye on the difference between that T20 World cup in Dubai and this World cup here. When it comes to the players on social media, I think there's been a big change in that the players will obviously be enjoying their lives outside of social media and still playing golf and still going out and getting, you know, having a drink here and there, but we're not seeing that anymore. And I think that's been one of the big changes that we've seen since Charlotte Edwards has come in. Feels like they're trying to come across as more professional, which will eventually come across in their performances as well.

Yeah, I think as. As well, in terms of, you know, let's say for argument's sake, England do reach a semi final and. Which they should do. They absolutely should do. And of course, they should be aiming for. For a final as well. But if they come up against, it's most likely to be one of India or Australia. And if they are outplayed by the better team and they, you know, they put all these improvements into practice, which Charlotte Edwards has spoken about. For example, they're catching their groundfield in, batting the 50 overs, batting deep. If sometimes you can do all those things right and still lose because the other team is just better than you, that can happen. I think if that is the case, then I don't think there will be a huge amount of, you know, fallout or scrutiny, either from the media or from the fans watching at home. I think that will be generally accepted as this is where England are right now. They are, you know, kind of learning still. No, there's not a huge amount of new players and new faces, but they're changing the way they play. They're trying to be smarter, they're trying to get back, back to basics, essentially, is kind of what Charlotte Edwards was saying. So I think it. It's not about whether they lose, it's about how they lose, if that makes sense. As in if they lose? Yeah, yeah. If it's more about how those processes happen, if you're outplayed, if it's a better team, then that's fine, that happens. But if it's a similar situation where it's a game where they should win, where they have moments to win and they kind of don't execute in those moments, then yes, I think that's where perhaps some frustration will come.

Their first match by the way, is against a South African side on Friday. That will be in the Guwahati as we see another big sign on the motorway for the Women's World cup in this city, by the way, which has a population around about equivalent to the entirety of Greater Manchester. You think of Guwahati as a smaller part of India but not a bit of it. This is a bustling metropolis downtown. Daniel, as we hear. That's a good horn that we heard going past. What do you make of Charlotte Edwards assessment of her chances at saying, you know, England aren't favourites and that she's quite keen to play down any notion that they would be?

Well, I mean she's right too because it isn't just about the psychology, it isn't just about taking the heat and the pressure off the players. This is a World cup in India and the Indian team have played 38 One Day Internationals in the last three years in preparation for this tournament. They've got some of the, well, the very best batters in the world. Riti Mandana Pratikirawal at the top of the order has burst onto the scene. She's overtaken Shefali Verma who we thought was a prodigy. So look, India are going to be a very, very tough side in their own conditions and Australia are just Australia, aren't they? They could put out three elevens that would be competitive in this World Cup. So she's right. England are not favourites. They're nothing like favourites. And if they were to get to the final that would be a massive achievement, especially so soon into her tenure as coach. But I think that is also a little bit of psychology in there as well, isn't there? Because we've been following England for a while now and they've always been up there. We've always imagined it's them or Australia. Well, the women's game has changed a lot in the last few years. I mentioned Sri Lanka a few times. They didn't play an ODI for three years before the last edition of the 50 over World Cup. Now they've played loads, they've Beaten India in a one day international. South Africa coming on leaps and bounds. They've got in Laura Wolfhardt, you know, one of the most unsung batters in the world at the moment. Averages over 50 in One Day Internationals. They've got Marizan cap. So many of these players are now playing in franchise leagues around the world. The professionalisation of the game has just changed the landscape and so there's a lot more teams who are an awful lot more competitive. And I think in a way this isn't a free pass Ringdon, it never is because. Because people are going to expect them to do pretty well.

And she said, you know, semi finals, knockout stages, they've got to be aiming for that and then they'll see what happens.

Yeah, exactly. And look, they've got seven games to get there and I think as a general rule of thumb if they were to win four then they would probably get there, you know, net run rate might come into it. So if you're listening at home, that's the sort of magic number to look at. If you win five, you're definitely going to get through. And so it's really about those games I said earlier, it's about, about those games against South Africa. New Zealand are going to be really important and making sure they clinically do the job against the likes of Pakistan and Bangladesh. But there's weather and at this time of year there's rain around in Guwahati and in Colombo. So a bit of luck will come into it as well.

Just looking at the thermometer on the dashboard of the bus, it's crept up to 37 degrees as we've got lower and lower in altitude. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer with a subscription to BBC.com you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad free podcasts and the BBC News Channel streaming live 24. 7 from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com find out more@BBC.com unlimited.

Alex, question that sort of I look at in terms of where England are psychologically when you go back eight years, which seems extraordinary now to your success in 2017. Where were the team in the build up to the World Cup? How settled were you in terms of knowing your best 11, which Charlotte Edwards says England are pretty close to doing and where were you psychologically as a team?

I'm pretty sure we knew our best 11 for probably a year out of that World cup and a lot of us played together, especially the 15. You know, the squad of 15 was pretty consistent for a long period of time. You know, we had a four year cycle to try and figure out what our best 11 was. I mean, to be completely honest, I made my debut in 2016 in the October, I want to say September, October 2016. So by the time it was June 2017 I had not really been playing all that long and I was pretty naive to it all. So I used to just rock up and have my fingers crossed in the team meeting and hope that I was number 11 and if I was number 10 I probably would have cried. But yeah, I hope that I was in the, in the playing 11 and I just kept my head down and, you know, kept myself to myself. But when you look at the consistency of the team leading into that World cup, the only thing that changed was whether it was me or Kate Cross in a couple of the games or whether it was me and Danny Hazell, me and Laura Marsh, or whether it was just two off spinners when we played against Sri Lanka because of all the left handers. So there was obviously some slight changes when it came to the starting 11, but I'm pretty sure Mark Robinson and Heather Knight knew their strongest 11.

Right then, let's get down to the nitty gritty. Where are England going to finish? Not where they should finish. Where do you think they will finish, Theon?

I think England will quite comfortably reach the semi finals and I think that is where they will probably exit. I think it'll be against one of India, Australia and as we said, the favourites and that's, you know, what they got to do.

I really worry about the weather and what harm that will do to England moving forward and I'd hate to see them bomb out of the group stages because they've been a couple of washed out games. I've got a really bad feeling that could happen but I don't know if I'm just being really pessimistic and not being optimistic. They should make the final and I'd love to see them obviously go on and win. But yeah, I'm going to say losing.

In the final, they should make the final. You think?

I think so. Look, I, I've got this feeling that they're still a better team than India but India are at home so it gives them a slight advantage and I know India beat them in England, just gone in the summer, but there's something in the back of my mind and I had this discussion on no balls with Crossy just, just today it's come out, you know, just a couple of hours ago and I said okay, well I'm expecting England to beat India in their warm up game. Crossy said, it's funny you should say that because I don't, she's like. Because we, they, they beat us in the summer. But there's something about England, India where I don't know whether it's past experiences. I just feel like they're a stronger team or maybe I'm just hoping.

What do you reckon Daniel?

Well, a lot's going to depend on how the pitches play out there. They've got a couple of games in Guwahati on pitches that are supposed to be really good for batting and if they get out there on the park then you would expect them to clean up. Against Bangladesh they're going to be challenged by South Africa. That's going to be a really big game for them. But overall I think they are going to qualify for the semi finals and then look, it's just what happens on the day and who they're playing against and in knockout cricket they've, they've got a great setup. They've got enough spinners if they're playing on pitches that do help their spinners. Their spinners are as good as any spinners in the tournament. What I fear slightly is the depth of their batting and the power of their batting. They rely a lot on their captain Natsiva Brunt. How the Knights coming back from injury do they have the power in that lineup to score big scores and we have seen some big scores in the warm ups. We saw Australia put on over 400 against India and then India reply with a sort of, what was it striking at 200 at one point? Samriti Marland when she got that 100. So I still think that they are just that little level below Australia and India. But on the day they can win a one off game in a semi final that could be get them to final and of course then it's a crapshoot. Who knows.

I've got a feeling that the wickets are going to be a lot better than we think. I think they're going to be flat, I think they're going to be high scoring and I feel maybe England would need an extra seamer, not the extra spinner.

Why do you think they may not have factored that in?

Oh, they probably have. I mean I'm just giving my opinion. They probably know more than I do but I've just Got this feeling that, you know, we want. ICC are going to want high scoring games, they're going to want thrillers, they're not going to be. They're not going to want low turning slow pitches. You know, they're going to want 300 place. 300. So be interesting to see what happens after the first couple of games.

So much for England as well. Also depends on Natsuva Brunt. We saw that when she wasn't bowling in the summer in both of those. Well, obviously more so against India because that was where England were challenged more with the bat. But they were. The balance of the side was just completely off, wasn't it? I think they had M arlott batting at 7, which is probably one place too high for her in terms of trying to having to play the extra bowler because Nat Silverbrand wasn't bowling. So it's really promising for England that she is fit enough to bowl and she will play a huge part. Whether she'll bowl 10 overs is very unlikely. I don't think that will happen just in terms of workload and coming back from injury. So maybe you're expecting Alice Capsie to make up a few overs, you know, as that fifth bowler. So I think that is a huge, huge boost for England. The fact that she is back, that she is bowling and it just helps Charlotte Edwards so much in terms of getting the balance of the side being able to play the extra batter. Especially as Alex said, if it is going to be a high scoring tournament, that could be really, really important.

It's absolutely right. It's much as Ben Stokes balances an England side actually. And we saw England men having problems with their 50 overside because they were effectively picking six batters and five bowlers. So they didn't have the depth of batting. Well, if Nat Siverbrunt's able to bowl then Alice Capsi can bat at seven and suddenly that changes everything. You've then got six bowling options that are all legitimate bowling options and you've got proper batting down to 7 with some perfectly capable batters at 8, 9, 10. So yeah, it's key. Natsiva Brunt is key, but she's been key for England for about the last 10 years.

What's been your favorite thing you've seen so far in in India, Fiona. And I'm not going to suggest the spider that was lurking on the floor of your room last night.

I can't answer that one because I'm still too traumatized from it. I'm afraid I will just extend further thanks To Henry and to Dan for coming to rescue me. And hopefully if we ask this question again in a few days, I'll have a bit more of a cheerier answer for you.

My favorite part of that story is that when we got the. The message to come and the knights in shining armor. Have you ever seen less2less?

I was ignoring it. I was totally not. Yeah, I was just laughing. I was like, just get a shoe and figure it out.

But as we left, you said, oh, there appears to be quite a lot of ants in the room as well. And as we left the room and the door shut behind us, I did say to Daniel, she's not realized those weren't ants. They were lots of very small spiders. But thankfully, situation resolved. Daniel, we were. Every crisis requires a hero.

Yeah. I mean, Fiona herself is way scarier than that spider. So, yeah, I mean, I think she could probably have dealt with it herself, but I've never felt so brave in terms of what I've enjoyed seeing. I would say the platoon, the phalanx of monkeys that came charging through the canopy the other day was rather lovely. Knocking over pop culture. Plants left, right in the center. It was like being in some kind of bizarre cartoon.

Oh, I've got another answer. Me and Daniel were sitting by the pool yesterday and a fruit of some kind fell from a tree above onto Daniel, which he thought was one of the monkeys. So that was his moment of fear. And I didn't come to his rescue. I did just laugh at him in that situation.

You were on hand already. Film. That's the. That's the point. It's a wonderful country and you see some incredible things as this drive has taken us down the hills. The temperature has gone up to 38 degrees outside and as we pass by loads of signs for the World cup as we've made our journey towards the ACA Stadium. It is such a stark contrast from the time the last World cup of 50 over cricket was held here in 2013, where you would have struggled to realise that there was a tournament happening at all. It is a different world. We know that the pressure on these players will be that much higher and every ball of every game available to listen to on BBC Sounds. We'll see England's campaign get underway on Friday against South Africa. South Africa side who could be a real threat in this competition. And it is going to be a lot of fun over the next few weeks as we bring you every ball of every game. Thank you to Alex, to Phion, to Daniel and the spider that provided so much entertainment and we'll speak to you again soon.

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