E#1 Getting Into HBS Without a Business Background: How It’s Done w/ Rafaella Maza

You really need to connect the dots of what you've done, what you're doing, why you want to do an mba, why you're going to contribute to that place and community and what you're going to do afterwards. That arc, I think that was my strongest point in my application. Like, everything was very consistent and connected, and you guys helped me tell that story.

Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us again for MBA Golden Buzzer, the podcast where we talk MBAs in business school and life after business school, beyond the marketing materials that you all see online. So today I have Hoffa Maza with me, one of our dearest clients, an HBS alum. Rapha, could you please introduce yourself to our audience a little bit?

Sure. Hi, everyone. I'm Hafa. I'm originally from Brazil, HBS 2023 class, and right now I live in Miami and work for a startup. Awesome.

Thank you so much for being here today. It's always good to chat with you. So I'd love to kind of talk a little bit first about your MBA process. So what was the moment in your life where you're like, you know what? I am top MBA material.

I don't know if that moment ever happened. I think it was quite the opposite. Where at first I really did not understand what an MBA was and what kind of people apply for an mba, But I never felt like I was MBA or HBS material, to be honest. Maybe in part because I don't have the traditional background. You know, like, a lot of people come from consulting or from investment banking and private equity. That's not everyone. I don't even know the percentage now. I know it's not, you know, not even the majority of the class, but still I feel like I'm an agronomist and never prepared myself for that experience. Some people, like, really know they want to do an mba, so they plan their career in that direction. I was just like, a friend told me to try, and I was like, I don't even know what that is. And. And that's when I found you. So maybe I think the day I got the interview, like the. The interview email, I was like, this is for real?

Oh, yeah. That was probably like a. Do you remember what day that was? Like, mark that in your calendar.

Right?

To be like, okay, this is the day that my timeline shifted.

Yeah. When was that? Because they. That's probably September or October, right? If the is like in September. Yeah. So it was sometime in October. I remember crying a lot. I was like, oh, my God, they're going to interview me and tell.

I think it's interesting to learn a little more about your background, because that was one of the things too, that for me was so interesting working with you is that, you know, we work with a lot of consultants and investment bankers, and it's always really interesting to learn their stories. But you came from a really different place. I don't think I've had anyone come from your industry since then. Um, do you want to just tell us a little bit about your industry and then also that. That talk with your friend and how you started seeing that shaping your career?

So my background is mostly in agriculture sustainability. I think what helped me in the application is that it. Everything was very consistent in terms of my personal life story. Coming from a family of farmers and then becoming an agronomist and working in the industry. So I think we were able to create that story. Arch. So I never lived my life to create that story, but I was living it. And this friend, her name is Marina, we used to work together. I was just going through a time, you know, it was Covid. And I was like, how do I progress in my career? I'm struggling a little. And she's like, you should go for an mba. You're the perfect candidate. I'm like, how? What? And I think what she saw was really that art. She's like, you are hardworking. You have your dreams, you're pursuing them. You can really benefit from that education, educational experience. Because I feel like my consultant friends or like my private equity friends. The academic aspect of HBS was somehow easier for them, as in, like, they were doing work that was pretty much related to a lot of the required curriculum. And for me, everything was new. Like, I hadn't had a class, like a marketing class or done any case, you know, like a consulting case on any of those topics. So it was way harder for me, in a way. But I remember some alum, I was talking to, an alum, I think, first semester, saying that. I was like, it was hard. And he's like, yeah, but, like, you're gonna gain so much more from this experience because you're starting point. Point is maybe further away, but that's great. You're paying the same price and you're getting more. If you go for it, if that makes sense.

Yeah. So you're getting more out of it. That's a good. A good, positive way to look at it, so that when you're struggling with exams, you're not stressed out too much. And what would you say was the hardest part of the application process for.

You, I think it was probably the gmat, and that's because I only had two months. I think a little bit less than two months the day I met you. And you were like, this is gonna be hard, but we can try. Because that was July 2020 and the deadline was September 2020. So there were less than. There are like seven weeks. And as I, as I told you and you know, I really had no idea what is an mba? What is it like, what is the application like? So I really needed your help. Right. Like, you gave me the structure and the step so I could see, okay, these are the tasks that I have to do until that day. But that's like the essays and, you know, building my brand, that's a lot. But then I also have to do the gmat and that task comes after us. Like, it learns what you don't know and keeps throwing it at you. So you get really good at a certain type of problem or question, but they're not going to give you that question. I don't know. I know the test has been changing over time, but at least in 2020, it was really hard. It was really humbling. And I was studying like four hours every night and doing mocks every weekend. So it was like a full time job on top of my full time job to do that along with the application. Right. I really feel like those are different things. So it was really, really challenging to like find the balance and find like an online course. That worked for me because some were like live classes and the schedule would not fit my schedule. Like, I need to get this done in less than two months. And there was Covid, so you couldn't get the test. You had to be online. And that was the whole thing. And if you did something, they could like cancel your test. So I think that was the hardest part for me.

And how did you. Did you have any strategies that you used to be able to fit everything in? Like, you mentioned you didn't take off time to do this. You were continuing to work a full time job. So how did you organize things or what strategies did you do to use to make that happen?

I feel like in a way the time crunch was really helpful. Like, there was no space for like not getting things done. There was no space for procrastinating, which I feel like sometimes, oh, I tell people, you should do this with more time than I did. But at the same time, that urgency really helped me every day do a little bit of something. Uh, and I, I I used to have the pictures of my calendar. So the. My calendar for July, August. It's like what I did every day, you know, like, I sent Ellen the second version of this essay, and I've studied four hours of sentence correction, and my score improved from this to that. But, you know, the online course that I'm doing on my own pace is telling me to focus more on this type of thing. Every lunch break, I would use the. I think the forum is called gmat. I don't remember. There is an online thing that everybody uses and they post, like, daily questions, one for the verbal side and one for the quant side. So I would use lunchtime to. To go through that. So it was like, massive commitment. You need to be persistent. You know, it's like keeping that pace every day, Sunday to Sunday, and. And just being organized with my calendar. And I knew what I was going to study that week and each day and how much time I was going to put into it. And I think Covid helped. Cause like, I couldn't do anything other than that and work. So. Yeah, and I like what you said.

Too, that you kind of also noted some of your wins as well. So I sent this and I, you know, completed this many questions. Cause I think too, that's also probably helping you. Like, okay, I am making progress. It's not just a to do list. I can look at it and realize, like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm making it happen. I'm gonna make it. Yeah, I like that. That's a nice thing to like, pump yourself up a little bit too. You need it during the process.

I remember your own platform had the to dos and the timeline. So, you know, when we completed a task and it was like, it would disappear from the to do list and go to the done list. It would be like in those weeks.

That you were getting ready or in the interview process where you felt like giving up on the application process.

No, I feel like that was not an option. I really felt I was not gonna make it. But I feel like I owed to myself to just get it done, you know, Like, I. Okay, I've committed. You know, second week of July, I committed. I'm doing this. I'm doing this. And I feel like that's just how I. I live life. If I'm on the fence and not committed, I'll probably could probably end up not doing it. But once I commit, I have to do it because I promised to myself, so I'm gonna do it. And it's a funny thing at hbs, there is a professor. His name is Reza. He teaches entrepreneurship. And he always says, magic happens when you commit. And that's a simple but. But very curious sentence, right? Like, change doesn't happen in a vacuum. Vacuum. Like, you're lucky you got in. No, it's like, you gotta go for it.

I like that. I like that a lot. I'm gonna. I'm gonna write that down later, send it out to people, because it's so true. Like, we, we work with, you know, people sometimes who are absolutely great applicants, but they don't put in a lot of effort, and then they don't get great results. And so I think you're absolutely right. Like, the amount that you put into it is the amount that you get out of it. And really, just saying, okay, I'm gonna do it and make it happen, do my best. That's such a good attitude to have. And I think, yeah, you're right. Really, really gets you to Harvard, right, In your case. And what made you choose HBS over other options? I know you got into a couple of different schools, which is always a fun but difficult place to be in. So what made you say, you know, HBS is really it for me?

So because we had little time, I didn't apply to a lot of schools. It was hbs, MIT and Stanford. I didn't get the interview with Stanford, which really broke my heart. Mit, I was actually wait listed. I knew it was super doable to get out of the wait list if I wanted to, and at some point I wanted to try because I felt like from the entrepreneur perspective or food and ag, MIT is really great. But at the end of the day, I mean, there's all these rankings, which school is best this year, and they fluctuate a little bit. But I feel like in the business world, like, the top schools are HBS and gsp, in the US at least, which is where I work. So if you're getting to one of the two, I think you should pick one of the two. And if you're getting to the two of them, which is very rare, I think it's like maybe 10% out of the population that gets into either school, then. Then you do need to, like, think through. You're going to be great either way. But, like, which one do you actually want to go to? But I feel like if you're one of the lucky people that gets into hbs, go to hbs. Unless there is, like, a massive reason not to, you know, like, maybe this other school gave you a massive Scholarship, but it's also a great school, or you really want to focus on this program that only this other school has, or you want to leave in this specific geography, there could be personal reasons to change your mind. But I feel like I wanted to go back to Brazil, not necessarily where I am anymore, but, you know, and I worked in agriculture. People do not do an MBA in the US So I was like, imagine me going through all of this, this massive investment. And if, you know, the plan that I had in mind at the time, 2020, was, I'm going to go back to Brazil and work in agriculture. And then you have a degree that people have never heard of because it's not part of their context.

Yeah, that's tough. That's really tough. Is, is really thinking about the brand value as well in your industry. Right? Because certain industries, certain schools are going to have more weight than others. Right? But yeah, kind of everyone's heard of.

Harvard, so that helps.

And you mentioned looking at like, you know, scholarship offers and things like that, and you were awarded a full scholarship through Funtasa. Me. Right.

So, so I have like four scholarships. I have financial aid that comes from the school. And that's. Most Brazilians were awarded that scholarship because you just send them your imposto gigenda, your taxes, and they are like, okay, this is how much money you have. And in dollars, that's not a lot. So here you go. And the scholarship from the financial aid is basically to cover your tuition, which is the largest cost. It wasn't a hundred percent, but it was like a great, great amount. And I do not have to give that money back. They will always ask for donations, but like, otherwise, I, I don't want to.

Give me, give me a few years.

One day. One day. Because before that I do have student loans. But the good thing is that Harvard has its own bank. So like, my student loan has amazing, like, rates. Like, like it's cheap and, and it was, was given to me without any collateral. You know, like, they just were like, okay, you're going to this school, you're going to do great. Here's the money you need. It's approved. And I, I know that in other schools, Brazilians would struggle a lot because the school doesn't have that service. And then they would have to go to the American market, you know, banking system. And because they're international, don't have like a, you know, any history in the US they might not get it. There are some institutions now, like Juno. Juno, that was actually started at hbs but otherwise, I know that's a hard sell for many people in other schools. And. And then I got Funda Sauisudar, Instituto Lingi, and Brazilian American Chamber of Commerce. But all of these I'm gonna give back. So it's. It's almost like a lawn in the way that the money is corrected over time. And you have that commitment because when you give back, that's going to finance the new generation of scholars. Yeah, but it's like, it's more flexible than the loan that I have with the bank, that I have a certain amount that I have to pay every month, otherwise I'm in trouble. Like, with the scholarships, it's like, you can plan and, you know, the grace period is, is very flexible in terms of why you can't afford in this moment.

So did you feel like with HBS? Because I get this question a lot with HBS's financial aid that they gave you, that it was sufficient and fair? Like, you felt like, okay, I really think that they looked at my finances and I think they gave me a fair offer. Yes.

I would say that during school, I didn't feel like that. I was always like, in that scarcity mindset of like, oh, my God, I'm still going to have to borrow dozens of thousands of dollars. And that's really scary. Like, I never had debt in my life before. My family never had deb their lives before. So getting that money was really, really scary. I remember sending an email to them saying that I was not going to go anymore because I was so scared of the commitment, because I was like, I'm going to go back to Brazil 20, 23. And, you know, if my salary is X and if the dollars is, you know, the exchange rate is Y, that means that 70% of my salary is going to go towards paying this debt. And I'm like, I can't commit to that. And they were like, calm down. I think. And I heard that from like an MBA admissions blogger or something. She was like, you got into hbs. That means that you're awesome and that your career is great. And you are telling me that you're not going to be able to get a good job that's going to allow you to afford your debt. And once I heard that, I was like, she's right. The school expects you to have a good job afterwards. So it's like, you're going to be able to afford this or negotiate and find a way around things. So once I heard that, I realized that my insurance, my guarantee is the degree itself. But I do not say that, to say that I can get anything I want, the salary I want. No, it's, it's hard. It's hard. It's like people that come to me sometimes have this expectation that, wow, you went to Harvard, you can do whatever you want and you know, any person you call will give you a job. And I'm like, no, it's not, it's not that automatic, you know, free path anywhere. It's just like you're gonna do well. Not. And I, I'm sorry that I said the degree, but I feel like the degree is just like this stem. But I feel like if you got there, it's because you were a hard working person and hard working people figure it out. So that was really scary. That was really scary. It still haunts me like every month I have to pay it. And right now my financial, my personal finances is a little constrained, but it's like, it's gonna be okay. It's a good problem to have. I would rather have this in my life versus having decided not to go to HBS because I was too scared of it.

Yeah. And for you guys listening, we have another episode that we've recorded with Hafa about what she's been doing after the mba, that whole process of life after the mba. So make sure to check that out because we go a lot into detail about that. But yeah, definitely that fear of debt. I know it's a lot of weight, but you're, you've made it to the other side and things are going well. I'm curious, what's one thing about HBS that surprised you the most?

I'm going to be very honest. And as I was applying, I think myself in 2020, I was like pretty much naive. I would say in certain things about life and if you read any business school website, it's very aspirational. It's like the, you know, and I think that's what the admission letter says. And I have the YouTube channel, the Harvard Della channel. And I read the letter and I cries like unpacking my Irish letter or something, unboxing, I don't know. And, and, and the letter says, we see new a leader that's going to change the world. Something like that. And that calling was, was what took me there. So maybe I was naive to think I did not know anything about consulting, investment banking, private equity, nada. So like I was just like, I'm gonna beat all this, you know, like a thousand people who want to change the world. So I'm the Girl that wants to change Brazilian agriculture and save the planet. And then I'm gonna find this other person who is, you know, I don't know, working in a different industry and country, but they also want to save the planet. And then it's. It's not like that. Like, you have a mix of personalities. And definitely there are some people that are more on this side of like, maybe like social impact or like they, they want to drive their careers towards that direction. But there's a lot of people who like, really? No, like, that's not why they are there. Maybe that's what they wrote in their application essay, but it doesn't mean that that's how they live their lives or they're doing during their time there or afterwards. So that was like, really shocking to me. But it was kind of a wake up call as well, where it's like, girl, you are living in like rainbow wonderland, like the business world, it's tough out here. And, and I realized that I'm also like, I'm also driven by money and, and I have other kind of aspirations and ambitions that are not all about save the dolphins or whatever. So that was the, the biggest, like, wow, like, shift in my head. Took me a while to figure it out. But I remember being like, what is going on? Who are these people? Why are we here?

That's true. I mean, I think that aspiration towards like, social impact is fantastic. And I, I love that that so many people go to the MBA for that reason. But I mean, yeah, like, you want to buy a house, you wanna take nice vacations, you know, there's, there's a lot of things in life that have to come into balance. And that's a really, I think, interesting lesson to learn from the mba. That's not one I've heard before.

Yeah.

And can you share a key moment in the MBA that shaped your growth? Like career growth, personal growth? Just a moment that really kind of, I guess maybe shaped you the most.

I think I lived four different personalities during hbs, almost like one per semester. And again, for anyone who is listening to this and can speak Portuguese or understand PORTUGUESE in that YouTube channel, Harvardella, there is a recap of each semester. And whenever I watch it, I'm like, who is that person? Like, I almost don't recognize myself. So overall, for me, I already shared the academic arc arch of things. That was like, a lot of things changed. I learned a lot. And then a little bit about the social experience, which was also like, surprising. But I feel like overall it was a Period in my life of a lot of stuff. Self development, like the search for identity and purpose. So I overall, I changed a lot in increments. It wasn't necessarily a day or a thing that happened. So I feel like I remember you made me think of a moment after or right before I graduated, I was walking around the Charles river with a friend. And it's just a weird feeling to get to the end of business school. It's like really weird. Like, what is going to happen now? I don't have a job yet that I don't want to leave. I was so depressed. I was like, I want to stay, I want to party with my friends. Because never again that's gonna happen. Like, at the end of the business school, you already have, like solidified your life there and your group of friends and you like your life. And it's like, this is gonna be over in a few days and never again it's gonna happen. Like this group of people is never gonna be living in the same place at the same time with this common schedule. Like, it's over. So, like, I feel like that moment was very strong. And we were walking and talking about it and I was like, you know what? I think the biggest gift that this place gave me, the biggest shift, was that before coming to hps, I thought my life was like this little bucket with some. Let's say the bucket is your capacity, like how far you can go in life or how many things you can do. And inside the bucket, you have. You have some stuff, you know, you have some stuff you do, you have some dreams, you have some ambitions. And I feel like this place, this experience, meeting different people and maybe struggling sometimes enjoying other times, I just realized that my life bucket is so much larger. Like, I have the capacity, or at least the latent capacity to do so much more and go so much further, which was part of the decision of now moving back to Brazil, in my personal case. And there's so many dreams and ambitions that I've never had because it was just not a part of my universe or my context. And I'm like, I can do this. A friend once told me during Carnival, actually, he's like, when you're in an MBA program like this. So his partner is at. Was at Stanford, gsp. I'm actually going to Rio in two days to meet them. But that was two years ago.

Yeah.

And he went to Berkeley. He's an entrepreneur. He's amazing. And we were in a taxi going from one blocking or to the other, and he's like when you go to these programs, you meet some people where the delta of where they are and where they want to be is not that crazy. Even though their ambitions are kind of crazy, but they can cross that gap. And I was like, I still have a hard time seeing myself as like that. My self confidence is not the best. I'm going to be honest. But it really resonated. I forget I did that sometimes I'm like, wow, yeah, I did that. I'm still paying for it.

Anytime you doubt it, just look at your, your bills at the end of the month. Like, you know what I am, I went to hbs. Nothing is impossible for me. And if you had to do the MBA again, is there anything that you do differently? I know this is a hard question. Sometimes it's like, you know, some things were bad, but it helped me grow. But I always just love to hear that.

I feel like if I went to HBS today, which is weird because I wouldn't be the one, the person I am today if I hadn't already done it. But I think I would just come with like open eyes and maybe less of the rose colored glasses and that would probably have given me a better calibration of reality and expectations. And it's not that I expected a lot and received little. It's just that my expectations were in a different universe, as I said about, you know, what are the type of people I'm going to meet and, and, and that was great. Like learning a little bit more about how life actually is for other people. But I feel like I would just come with this open eyes and see people for who they are and not what I thought they should be or what they should be doing. So kind of almost like less judgmental or more open to discovering other ways of living and understanding that we can only experience our lives from our own perspective. But I did feel that hbs, maybe because of the diversity and the case method, it's really this opportunity to almost put yourself in somebody else's shoes all the time during the day and learning how people work and how people think. And I definitely learned those things. But it's almost like I wonder how I would learn those things the way I am today, because I feel like I'm definitely smarter in terms of relationships and understanding other people. What was the case method like?

Everyone, I think, has this idea in their head of hbs. The case method is so intimidating. What was it like though, to actually go through it?

Yeah, it's funny, right? It completely dominates your life for two Years and now it's like not a thing anymore. I visited a business school friend on Sunday and he has all his cases. So he was showing me his office and it's a massive pile of like binders with all the cases. And I threw mine away because I didn't want to carry them around as I was moving. And I have everything, like on PDFs, but I do have four binders, one per semester with my notes. So each class I had one page worth of notes and they were very organized, so I'm proud of that. I also have like a notebook here with. I summarized that. So each page became a line because I was so scared that I was going to forget that I was going to lose all those things I've learned, which is, I don't know, maybe a little dumb of me. But the case method, it is unique for sure. You get used to it. The first semester is hard and then you learn how to do things in 30 minutes that before would take you six hours. Because they are really trying to teach you that in real life, in the business world, does it really matter that you read everything and you summarized everything and you know everything and you, you know, you color coded things. Because that's what I would do. I remember spending six hours of a Sunday studying this case and I was like, I'm gonna crash in class tomorrow. The professor never called on me. Like I was like raising my hand. So it's like dealing with that frustration of sometimes you get ready, like really ready to say something and they don't even call on you because they can't call on everyone and they are just trying to move the discussion. So let's say that I, I crack this piece of the case and I have a great comment to make about this part of the business. But the class never goes there. We end up discussing something else or someone makes the comment that you wanted to do. You know, that's like, like so interesting that it's almost like over. Preparing is very counterproductive. It's not the best use of your time. So you kind of learn how to react to things like as they go, which again is what you should be doing in real life. Responding to people and to the things that matter now and not to the thing that you prepared the day before does not mean that you don't have to prepare. Because if you don't prepare, not just a cold call, because the cold call, you know, we find ways to avoid them. Like where you sit in class for the second year, where you can pick or are you know, like avoiding eye contact. We don't do much. Not too much. And then making sure that you're speaking every other or every three classes. Highly unlikely you'll be cold called because they are trying to get to the people who haven't spoken in, like, four classes. So we learned how to game that system really well. But I feel like you just, like, learn how to skim your cases and go to the things that matter. There's a lot of cases that you need to do Excel spreadsheets, like, get some information, do some calculation. I found that part hard, like, in terms of just having little time to do that. But there would always be a friend who would help, or you would check in before class and compare notes. So it is work before class if you want to do. If you actually want to do it. There are people that imagine how many cases you're doing. It's like hundreds. So there will be a field that you're really not going to be super prepared. And you just hope that you can fade into the background. I feel like some people were really good at making comments or like, oh, my God, I would vote this person to be the president. You know, like, they are so eloquent. But usually it would be the Americans or people who, you know, were raised here and maybe their educational background help them. I feel like I really struggled. I had to, like, read my notes to make a comment. It was really hard. But again, I probably learned. I was probably way better in my last semester than I was in the first. But it, for me was really about letting go of that control freak, which is kind of my personality of being super organized. And I was such a nerd at school. I went from being the first student in class, you know, since, like, I don't know, middle school, high school, college, to like, being maybe, I don't know, in the percentile. I was like, not top of anything. You're in the middle. I don't know if I was in the middle. And that was, like, kind of frustrating. But that's gonna happen to everyone that goes to HBS because they kind of bring in the top student of their class. And it's like, go, now. You're all in this pressure pen together.

I know some people say, oh, I don't want to go to HBS because it's really competitive. Do you get that sense in the classroom that it's a competitive environment? Everyone's out to do better than each other or compete with each other.

You're not going to feel that. Competition, as in who Made the best comment and I'm going to go after you and like comment on top of you and say that you're wrong. I feel like maybe when people say it's competitive, maybe that's what they picture and it's not like that at all. I don't think people care. Like, the more goes by, the less people care about the class themselves, to be honest. Because the social experience is so dominant. Everything that happens outside of the classroom that I feel like that's where most of the energy goes. And we would have terms as, oh, this person is trying to climb the social ladder. This person is third time cool kid. You know, like they were cool kids in high school and college and now business school or first time cool kid. Like, they were always the, they were always the nerd kind of bullied person and now they're shining in the social scene or whatever. I felt the competition more on this, like, who is, you know, it. It honestly kind of feels like high school sometimes, right? It's like, in whose Instagram am I, you know, is this person like posting me and tagging me and am I invited to this trip or not? I feel like I don't know if this is competition. Maybe it's. But that's how I experienced it. And the last thing I would say is when you bring so many type A's together, it is hard. It is hard. Like, it's a lot of anxiety, but it's subtle because, no, everybody wants to look cool. Nobody wants to look like they're anxious. So it's like they're gonna say they didn't read the case to look cool, but they did read the case, you know, So I don't know if I would call that competition. But I also don't want to say that, oh, there's no competition. It's like the most chill place on earth. It's not. But it's also like, for me was a good way to learn how to handle those emotions. And I'm still learning because it's just like the type of personality, the type of background that gets into that place. It is. Can be stressful. It can be really stressful. But then how do you handle that? Because at the end of the day you have like, it's highly probable you're gonna go to a career path where you're gonna encounter that situation over and over again. So in a way, it's almost like it's good because you, you have that workshop of learning how to handle that aspect of life.

Whoever are the therapists at hbs, they're, they're always busy.

Right? They're obviously really important. I started therapy second year of business school school and I would recommend anyone going in to start before. So you have that foundation and you have that habit. Actually recommend therapy to every single person I ever meet because I feel like everyone could benefit from it. Just like finding your, your type of, of therapy. I do behavioral therapy and I love it. I do it online with the therapist in Brazil. Super doable. It's not that expensive for me because of dollars versus reais and also workouts like get a workout routine before going to business school and maintain it because that's also going to help with the stress and time for yourself. Work on yourself, take care of yourself.

Just getting that extra oxygen in your brain, even just that helps a ton. All of our clients, anyone who's listening, if any, if you're in therapy from day one, my gosh, it's going to be so much easier when you face those challenges because there are going to.

Be being away from home, the pressure.

Of recruitment, all of that is just, it's a lot for any one person to, to handle. Not that you can't do it, but why not make it easier, right?

Yes, exactly.

Awesome. So let's go to our fast pass insights. This is a part of the podcast where we're just going to give you some rapid fire questions for you to give us some of your best advice. So my first question is what's one must have for a successful application?

I'm going to be cheesy and say Ellen. How Ellen.

Thank you, Appa. Let's move on, let's move on. What was your favorite class or professor?

Michael Shue. Business at the basis of the pyramid. Unfortunately for you guys, he just retired but he's still around campus. He's the best person, best professor. I wish he would adopt me. I would be his grandchild anytime. He does a lot of cases in Latin America. So best class at hbs. So sorry you guys won't have him teaching it.

They have to find a good replacement for him. What's the most overrated part of the MBA experience?

Most overrated? I think it's this thing that you're going to go through it and then everything's going to magically work out in your life. It's not.

What's your best networking tip?

I feel like actually, you know, you could take going deliberate about it organized. Uh, I actually preferred being more organic and you know, vulnerable and, and, and just being who I am and you know, it's gonna take some time. I only really found my best friends today towards the end of the mba, even though I met most of them first week. I feel like we're all so busy and, ah, it's so crazy. It takes time for things to settle. So I feel like if you really want to build, you know, deep relationships, not like a lot of shallow relationships. It takes time, takes effort. And I, I did prefer to go through, like, I know it's not that rapid, but like going through the people that my values matched with them because those are going to be my lifelong friends versus someone that's this person is going to work in this company that I want to work for. You could do that.

I do more kind of people making those genuine connections with people rather than kind of a more advantageous match.

They teach us that in the happiness class, that those are the useless friends. They even name it, useless friends. You need useless friends. I really disagree because I feel like those are the most useful friends that I have because they are the people that are going to be there when I'm crying. Not necessarily 100% crying for a job, but, you know, yeah, they call it useless friends.

I agree. Those are the people who are going to be there for you because it's not all going to work out. Not everything's going to be perfect. Harvard, come on. Getting together. And what advice would you give to your pre MBA self in 10 words or less?

Get ready to grow up. Oh, good one. That's a good one.

And what's your favorite thing about Harvard that nobody really knows about?

I feel like, at least in the HBS community, I didn't see people enjoying being on campus, being, you know, Boston, Cambridge, if you go there, anyone who goes there, if you just walk by yourself, HBS campus, Harvard Yard, Charles River Esplanade. That place is so gorgeous. There's so much history there. So you know that. That beauty of contemplating going for a long walk on the morning and feeling the sun on your skin and seeing people rowing on the river or like docks, I don't know. I feel like I would not see people doing that. Taking the time to contemplate, to meditate, to be there, because the experience is so overwhelming that if you don't deliberately step out of it, that magic, you're not going to find it if you don't seek it. That's good.

Yeah. And it is such a beautiful campus, right? All year round and like the fall, the colors, the beautiful snow, it is such a beautiful place. Uh, what would be your golden buzzer tip for getting somebody into an MBA program. They said, listen, I'm going to start now. I'm going to apply. What would be your. Like, you know, this is my absolute best tip.

You really need to connect the dots of what you've done, what you're doing, why you want to do an mba, why you're going to contribute to that place and community and what you're going to do afterwards. That arch, I think that was my strongest point in my application. Like, everything was very consistent and connected, and you guys helped me tell that story. And I feel like if you can't do that, it's going to be a hard sell because they're looking at so many people who are as accomplished as you are. So what is unique about you? And it does need that consistent consistency between past, present, and future. Even if you're doing a career shift, things need to, like, people should read your application and have no questions. Like, this doesn't really make sense. And this is weird. Like, things should be like, almost like a movie where you're like, okay, okay, even there is a shift. But, like, everything, like, connects.

Yeah, I 100% agree. And, like, we've seen a huge shift, too, with just, you know, people's attention spans and how, you know, short form content has rewired our brains. And I always think, you know, you don't want to be the application that they just scroll past because it's confusing. Like, mentally just like, next.

Yeah.

And it's so easy for our attention just to be like. And then they're never going to get back to you. So that's. Yeah. That's such good advice.

That's such good advice.

And our final round, if you had to distill everything that you've learned into one piece of advice for MBA applicants.

What would it be? This persistence, this resilience. I had to do it for the application itself, and then during business school and now in my life after business school cycle. So it's a lesson that you're gonna take with you forever and kind of trusting life, because I do feel a lot of the applicants are probably like, me, like, this kind of control freak. We are very anxious. We want to control everything, get everything done and be perfect. Like, that kind of perfectionism that makes you, like, stressed over everything. So you need to be persistent, you need to work, you need to be resilient because it's going to be hard, but you also need to learn how to let go and trust the process and go with it. And I'm saying That. And that's an advice for me, myself and I in my life today.

So for me too, that's good advice. One type A meets another. Yeah. Who has the longer to do. No, that's great advice, Haba. That's great advice. And I think especially, you know, with, with people that we work with, they think, oh, If I do 36 versions of my HBS essay, that's going to be the thing that gets me in. And that's absolutely not the case. Changing one word here, one word there, you know, having your recommender change one word here, that's not going to be the thing that gets you in. It's going to stress you out. It's counterproductive, just zaps your energy. So, yeah, I think that's great advice. Like kind of that with the gmat too, I would say to a certain extent, because you can't prepare every question. You have to get into that place where you're just kind of okay, I trust myself, you know, it's. I know the frameworks, I know the rules. I'm going to go with it. So, yeah, that whole kind of trusting yourself not over preparing is a good.

Exactly. Exactly.

Well, it has been so good to have you today. Always a pleasure to talk to you. I hope you guys have all learned something. I'm sure you've learned a lot from Hoffa. If you haven't already, check out our other episode with her where we're talking about kind of that post mba, live job hunt, things like that. It's a great episode as well. And for those of you who might be starting your MBA process right now, we do have a 98.9 success rate with our clients. We love working with you guys. You know, not just helping you tell a great story and be compelling, but also supporting you along the way, you know, going through these struggles with you. So if you're interested in applying to work with us, check out our site and we hope to see you on our future podcasts.

Thank you, Alan.