E#7 Stanford MSx to CEO: The Leadership Blueprint for Founders w/ Kate Rogers Mery de Bellegarde

What is your definition of happiness and life satisfaction? Because thinking big and going, going, going, going and forever going and not having some sort of plateau in mind is not my objective. And I don't think it's the objective of everyone. So think happy means that we need to understand what are our goals for our family, what are our goals for our social connection? What are our goals for our impact? Because not everyone is in an impact space. I'm lucky to have everything I do be already entwined in impact.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to NBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Kate Rogers, Mary DeBellegaard, a Stanford GSB alum and the founder of Sprouts Chef Training, an incredible nonprofit that's transforming lives through culinary education. Stanford is famous for its introspective leadership focus, entrepreneurial culture and global network. But what is it really like to be a student there? What are the things that no one talks about? And how does the GSB experience shape your path as a founder and leader? Kick us off today. Kate, thank you so much for being here. I'd love to just have you introduce yourself a little bit more to people who might not have heard of your work.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk and kind of unfold all of these memories from Stanford Business School and hopefully share a couple tips or insights with with people that are interested.

So what made you choose the MSX program instead of a traditional mba and what drew you to Stanford?

First of all, I went to UC Berkeley, so I was already in the bay area since 2005, grew up right outside of Philadelphia, then flew out to do my undergrad. And I was always intrigued by Stanford, especially with it being in the heart of the Silicon Valley. And I knew that in the next chapter of my career I wanted to be more focused on scalability. And I think that Stanford has an amazing blend of scalability, thinking big, but also thinking with impact. And I think that's a value that for me is incredibly important. I want everything I do to have an anchor in improving systems, improving people's lives and creating community. So. So for me, Stanford was that perfect blend as opposed to Harvard Business School or the MIT program. There are hundreds of options. So I focused on Stanford and Applied and I began my studies in 2021. It was the one year program as you mentioned. I really did not see myself after working 10 years bootstrapping and building a community, a network and nonprofit and significant, you know, data based impact, I didn't see myself taking a break for two years. I definitely wanted the Theory, I wanted to step back, reflect, and use my nonprofit as a case study in every class and every program I took and have the support from my colleagues and professors. But one year is much different than two years. And also I think it's important to note that the mentality of the two year program is much different than the one year program. The two year program, you're going to have a younger audience, perhaps with a little bit less experience. So imagine in a class with younger folks, they might not have as much to contribute to what you're going through, because it's not just what you're learning from the professors, it's also what you're learning from the amazing colleagues who, who are surrounding you every day. So I think, you know, there's a lot of variables that went into it, but I was thrilled to do this for one year and didn't see myself taking a career break for two years.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's something that whenever we're talking with applicants, to really consider is what do you see yourself getting out of the network? Right. And not to say that people with three or four or five years of experience don't have great things to contribute. They absolutely do. But when you've, you're 10 years out, you're the head of a business, you're looking to, you know, just kind of make those more incremental shifts or scale your business even more. So someone who maybe has never managed a team before, you might not quite be on the same wavelength.

Yeah. And don't get me wrong, the two year business students were incredible. And there was quite a bit of exchange with them. I just, I just knew what I wanted. I knew the kind of experience I wanted to be collaborating with in a more dense form. And that's exactly what I got. So it's very personal.

And for people who might be listening and might not be familiar with Sprouts, can you just tell us a little bit about what it is, how you started it? Because it's such a cool organization.

Of course. So Sprouts started as culinary kids and we were doing cooking classes for youth of all socioeconomic backgrounds. So think young kids as little as six years old and as old as 13, even pushing to 14, 15, depending on the class. And we'd invite these youth. It was based in the Bay Area. Alice Waters actually helped really know, anchor the concepts for me, and then joined the board. But at first we were going into restaurants with flame and knives and all sorts of liability and a bunch of kids up to 18 in that kitchen. And they were just learning the very basics of cooking and farm to table concepts with chefs and who, you know, who is better to teach these lessons than those who've dedicated their entire careers to good food? So for me, this was important because nutrition has been such a big part of my life on how we show up, how we feel physically, emotionally, spiritually. I really wanted to drive those concepts home. However, I also started to give cooking classes with Chez Panisse chefs at the very start of my career. While I was doing these cooking classes for youth, and instead of youth from, from Berkeley or San Francisco and restaurants, I was going to live in lock in facilities. And these are facilities where young adults have had, had, have experienced hardship of all kinds and all colors. Very difficult stories. And with the chefs from Chez Panisse, we were doing cooking classes and just being present and spending time with them. And I remember not even being able to use plastic knives or salt because these are things that could be used to inflict wounds upon themselves. And this all kind of came together to make me realize that I wanted to go deeper in the impact. I was all about nutrition for youth, but I wanted to start giving young adults who hadn't had it easy a opportunity to train and create sustainable job skills so that they themselves can get their very first job in the restaurant industry. So for several years, Sprouts Cooking Club was straddling cooking classes with youth and the chef training program. And it was because of my year at Stanford Business School that we're able to completely ax what we were doing with the kids. It was a very hard decision. And then focus fully on the chef training program. One thing I learned from my professors and my colleagues is that if you want to scale and truly make an impact, you've got to focus. There was a lot of mission creep and mission straddling with the two different programs.

And how did you make that decision? Because I know when, when we met and we worked together, you were really focused on, on the club and working with kids. And that was such a cool project that you were so passionate about. And I imagine that leaving one of those passions behind is incredibly difficult. Can you kind of walk us through that process of pivoting?

Absolutely. And to add to the context you just gave, not only did I have 12 plus years working with youth, and not only was it going well, but my last quarter at Stanford Business School, one of my professors and one of my mentors, Norman Winarski, actually approached me and said, we love your idea. We love the scalability of your Youth cooking classes. We can do this in person, but we can also do this virtually. I will fund you, I will fund your idea. So whatever you want to do, you are going to have mentorship from my firm. You're going to have resources and the money you need. So imagine after all of this reflection of what do I really want to be doing in this world? How do I really want to be showing up to make a decision that it's the youth, the young adults job training program that inspires me and then get an offer like you couldn't even dream of to go with the youth cooking classes. So I like went back in my soul searching and at the end of the day I was still quite convinced that my true passion lies in job training. I think that's where the true impact was. But to give you a little bit more context on why I really stood my ground on that, I, I grew up with a, a brother who was facing a lot of hardship on his own. And so there were very, very difficult moments when we had to see him in and out of homes or juvenile detention. It was finally getting a job and having the satisfaction of thriving and being successful at something that helped turn his pathway from a downward spiral to an upward success story. And it was all very gradual and it was actually very difficult for me to understand in the moment. But with years of reflection, I now understand that was an incredible motivating factor for me when I decided to do these live in lock in facility cooking classes and then eventually focus on job training for youth experiencing hardship. Because I lived that, I saw it and it was something that was personally connected with me. And I did not want any other young adult to go through what I saw my brother go through without support.

So that having a really strong sense of your values and your mission was able to help you navigate that decision then.

Absolutely. And understanding that in this world we all want to have a purpose, we all, we all want to help. And what does that mean for each one of us? And thanks to the platform at Stanford University, I was really able to reflect on those points and then decide that once I chose my path through manifestation, through the support of others, I would be supported no matter the decision. And I think that that scares a lot of people because they'll make a decision based on some very nation factors that are based in sand and try to build it, you know what they want based on other, other things. And so I think one lesson I took away from my year there was pick what you want to do, throw your energy in and the support, the resources, the structure will come.

And you mentioned professors acting almost like early stage investors, which is really interesting. How did that impact your Stanford experience? That's an interesting dynamic.

Absolutely. So I think a lot of people do not understand is that when you're going to business school, clearly there's a financial model for the professors to be there. A lot of them are tenured. They're also getting papers published because of their status at Stanford, they're able to accept speaking engagements. But they are also acting as early stage angel investors and they themselves are scouting out for the all stars in each and every class and trying to network and connect with the young people out there who they think have the energy and the idea and perhaps the charisma to take an idea and go for it and maybe pivot several times to get to the, the end, the end road of success. So that was shocking to me. I remember a specific professor who, who kind of took it a little bit too far. We were, we were in one of the core classes and he encouraged all of us, I think mandated all of us to sit down and do a video call with him. And so he had all, he had all of us in a, in a video call space. And he kind of just went down the row of, okay, so what are you working on? Who are you? It was pretty much just figuring out like, okay, who was the good idea. And you could see when he was interested because he would push, ask a few more questions. Now that's an extreme example of someone like, being very blatant about scouting. But most of the relationship building or the interest on professors would be through events or after class. And I think that students often felt like the professors had the power. The professors were there to offer the value. But I actually realized the students were there to offer value, were the ones with the ideas, with the energy, with the time, without perhaps a very complex system of responsibilities like a family and another job. Clearly we're here ready to, ready to take a break from all of those responsibilities and throw ourselves into the next project. So imagine, you know, youth, energy and charisma on the table. That's just as valuable, if not more than investment money.

Absolutely. That's so interesting. I know Stanford is a very collaborative community, but does that foster any sense of competition? Because with your, your student, with your classmates?

Not that I picked up on. I think that fostered an extreme motivation to collaborate and to network with professors, to organize events. One thing I wanted to mention that, that surprised me about the, the campus life is that there Was almost no budget for social events with professors. And there was really no structure to organize events with professors. That was at least, that was organized and initiated by the school. And so one of my goals when I realized this in the first quarter was to organize my own events where I brought chefs and winemakers and then mixed them with professors and of course colleagues and very easy ticket, very affordable ticket for everyone to be able to participate. But I found that those mixers, those what I called community events, were incredibly successful because either I was hosting them at a professor's home. So it was the professor's moment to one, show that he, she, they were really invested in the community, which is important. And two, to kind of be the shining star in that moment and get to meet all the students and hear in a, in an informal way over a glass of wine what they're up to. So it's a little bit of angel investment scouting for them, of course, on, you know, my colleague's side, figuring out what professor might match with their idea or be able to lead them to some, some seed money at some point. And again, this is, I don't want to, I want, I don't want to project that. Everyone was looking for seed money. Some people were really just looking to get to the next step within the corporate world. But there, there were quite a few founders in that group. Another strategy I had was to host things at my home on campus. I got really lucky and I had this little mise net on a lawn with oak trees and olive trees. And so from my personal patio we could kind of spread out to the rest of the, the lawn. And that was incredibly fun to, to just bring everyone together. It was much easier for multiple professors to take part. And it was very popular among my student body. And we would often invite business school students who were doing the two year program or the one year program that had just passed. We try to incorporate alumni people who are going to come the next year and just make it very, you know, very community based, very interactive.

Sounds awesome. I hope they're still doing that. I hope someone picked up the mantle after you left.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think when you put a bunch of entrepreneurs together, these kinds of things pop up. I had one of my best friends would organize events with just one professor. So I kind of mixed everyone together. And her angle was one professor at a time, no more than 15 people in that space. A very intimate Q and A, you know, with wine and cheese. And that had its own allure and its own pool. So I think everyone kind of Took their own angles. Some people did podcasts, some people just, you know, did one on one coffee chats with professors. So it was all, it was all over the place. And I think that created a really fun, fun ambiance.

Oh, that's nice too. So then for the people who are more kind of introverted and being thrown into that big group don't have to feel like they have to pitch their ideas in an environment they're not super comfortable with. That's awesome. And you mentioned that there's a lot of different types of people on campus, which I think is one of the main benefits of an mba. What kind of people did you feel yourself being gravitated towards?

Interesting question. I think that the business school does a really good job at bringing in diversity. I know that I was not the only nonprofit executive or founder in the group. There were a few others. They tried to make sure that gender is balanced. And we had someone from Italy, several folks from Brazil and other parts of Latin America, as well as one or two other Europeans, and then clearly several Americans. And the industries were all over the place. A lot of tech, some bankers, but a lot of folks who had already started their entrepreneurial journey and wanted to just take it to the next level. And I think I was part of, I was part of that segment, wanted to make sure that I wasn't, I wasn't wasting time by doing the same thing using the same strategy. I really wanted to learn how to leverage the talent of others and not be alone in my journey. And I wanted to learn how to think big sustainably.

And one of the things that we were talking a little bit about before we started recording was kind of that you used your breaks in a really interesting way to kind of maximize your time during the mba. Can you maybe tell us a little bit about that?

I think that MBA programs in general have a reputation for being like, party central. And I am not negating that. However, going on an exotic trip for two weeks during a year that is jam packed with opportunity and short, very, very short, didn't feel like the best use of my time. So one of the things I pursued and studied while I was at, at the business school was real estate and different, different approaches to real estate. Since 2012, I had been pursuing one type of real estate investment. So during my break, rather than, you know, going off, I don't even know where, where mates went, but I actually went to North Carolina where I'd identified a real estate market that was just on fire. It was doing super well. And so I purchased a, a single, you know, a small family home, decided to, to test that model out. Did tons of projections, of course, had a lot of help from classmates who had already done that kind of investment. So I feel like I was able to leverage their smarts and their know how. And that investment went super well. But it was a lot of work and I was so grateful to have that pause from the classes and from the events and just from like the constant pull in different directions while classes, classes are going on to focus and say, hey, I studied this, I thought about this, I reflected on this, and now it's time to act. So I, I really had a different take than some of my colleagues on how to spend my time there.

And now you're running as well. In addition to Sprouts, a Chateau hospitality company, were those experiences kind of one of the things that led you to that?

Well, it's interesting because if you think about the financial model of a nonprofit, at least the way I started it, it was bootstrapped from day one. $0, all time invested time. Friday nights when everyone else was going out as an undergrad, I was in a cafe with one of my co founders, just building the website, building the structures. And the chateau is much different. The chateau has a community of investors and there is a financial model and a profit model behind the hospitality company in addition to a real estate model. You know, we're buying a piece of real estate, happens to be a chateau that is going to be improved and appreciate over time. And in addition to that, there's a burgeoning hospitality concept that has quite, quite a bit of, of yield potential for the investors. So it's kind of like a 2 in 1 investment. I would have never been able to even go in the investment fundraising world if I had not gone to business school. I had no idea in hell how to do these things. And in fact, even after 12 months being surrounded by professors taking classes, getting coached by colleagues who'd been there, done that, I still didn't know exactly what I was doing. And I think that's the beauty of Stanford or any business school they teach. You harvest the information you can, but then, but then jump and jump without fear. What's the worst case scenario? And so I was able to, you know, do as much as I could to figure out how to play this investment game. Norman Winarsky was huge in, in that process of understanding how to value time versus investment money, investment dollars. And another variable was the contacts and the personality of the investors. I had no idea before going into business school that you need to weigh these things, you need to calculate them because the wrong investor can really create a lot of tension and a lot of division among the other investors and the co founders or in my case, co founders with my husband. So I just want to mention that none of that would have been possible if I hadn't understood how to do a fundraising round, how to organize that in a legal way. And I'm so grateful for that experience and just kind of, you know, throwing myself into it. I really just posted on my LinkedIn and on my Facebook the opportunity in just a few bullet points and that was all I needed to get the investor pool we needed. We did have to turn away quite a few people because we want it to be small, tight knit community of investors.

Yeah, I think that's such good advice. There's a lot of people going go into the MBA thinking I want to have a startup, I want to fundraise and they'll just take whatever money comes in first without really thinking about what that means for the future.

I think this needs to be a discussion. I think people need to talk and understand. And both with the nonprofit and for profit hospitality company at the Chateau, I have done a lot of work with bringing powerful, competent people together. And there is an art of interpersonal dynamics. And not everyone has the kind of communication skills to have difficult conversations, to give feedback in a constructive, exciting way. We should all be excited to evolve to our best selves. And yet sometimes the way feedback or conversations go down, there's often shame that enshrouds the conversation and the context. And I disagree with that. And so I think it is so important that before you take someone's money, you ask those difficult questions. How will this person show up in times of conflict if I disagree with their vision? Who's in control here when there is a disagreement? What are the, what are the legal tools we will use and. Or not? So I think defining these things are incredibly important because I have seen too many friends and too many case studies of companies who have gone down not because the product wasn't there or the market wasn't ready, but because internal conflict brought them down.

Yeah, yeah, that's a unfortunate reality. Right. It's a long term relationship. It's kind of like a prenup. You hope you never need one, but it's good to have in case you do.

Absolutely. And having all these things talked about in advance and, and articulating what you want and what you don't want to the investors so they can Self select. I think that's important too because I remember having a conversation with one investor and they were like, oh, and what are you going to be doing here? And I want to be involved in decision making there and I just, you know, let that person know. It's going to be me and my co founder. We're going to have all the context and it is going to be so intense that we are not going to have the time to explain every single context detail. And so we can't always let you into the decision making. It will slow us down. And if we're slowed down, then the revenue generation will be slowed down and then everyone on the investor pool will be impacted. So having these conversations up front was very important. And ultimately on my end I decided it was not a good fit. And that investor also just said, I want more. Say I want more control. So I don't think it's a good fit for me either. So thank heavens I was clear. And ultimately we had more than enough investors who were ready for the terms that we put out.

How did you choose while you're at Stanford? Because again, it's one year, there's so many options. How did you choose which classes you would take?

Oh, this is a loaded question. I don't think that the struggle to get the class you want is just at Stanford Business School. I think it's something we had to deal with undergrad. And I also think other business schools really struggle with this. The way I approach it was clearly there were some popular classes, professors who had a particularly fantastic and approachable personality that really drew you in, really good content. And there were other classes perhaps not as popular. And in general, my philosophy on life is there is no need for competition, there is bounty for us all. So I did not see myself waiting for the class, you know, the class registration online 10 minutes before and press refresh, refresh, refresh. That's just not my style. And also I didn't want to be in a class where everyone was competing for, for the attention of one person. That doesn't seem like a way to get any of my projects across the line or advancing. And so I was actually much more attracted to the classes that had a lower signup because as I thought about it, you know, of course there's like the content, but all the popular classes there are books. I mean these are folks who have written book after book after book. So I would buy the book and I'd go through that. And of course these professors are on campus. So if you want to grab Coffee with them. You can follow up and ask your questions. The, the, the slower cl. The slower classes, that's where you could really dig in and the professors had time for you. And also there was a sense of gratitude. Hey, thanks for taking my class. Cause, you know, they, they, the professors who have slower classes, they know and I think that we really need to value the coaching opportunity. So that was my approach. I, I read the books for classes that were impacted, and I really gunned for the classes that had a, a lower attendance. And thanks to that, I was able to connect on a much more meaningful level with a lot of professors on campus.

That's great advice, and I don't think I've ever heard that before. Like to really prioritize the individualized attention.

Yeah.

And think about it.

A lot of these business schools, obviously Stanford, because that's my experience, will let you create and personalize a class for yourself. And so it basically entails you deciding what you want to study, creating an argument for it, and then approaching a professor or two and ask if, if they will oversee your development during that, during that class. And so that's something I also took advantage of and was able to really connect on a, on a much, much deeper level with the professor. So there's also an opportunity to create your own class. And that's something I jumped on. And I think by defending your thesis and creating a curriculum for yourself and bringing in another professor to oversee your growth is a fantastic way to connect with a professor, a teacher, on a, On a much deeper level.

What was one of your biggest surprises at Stanford?

This might sound silly. So many of us suffer from imposter syndrome. And it's not something I have personally struggled with. But when I came to campus, I expected to be wowed by everyone there on a, on a superhuman level. And when I arrived, I realized, like, these are a bunch of normal people with, you know, with hair and skin. And they, they have their own objectives and their own fears and they have their own, you know, interest points. And I was able to normalize what before I had put on a pedestal. And that, in a way, gave me an incredible amount of confidence because I completely saw myself fitting into this environment and fitting into this group and knowing I was, was good enough. And not only good enough, but contributing with events, contributing with my energy and my questions and my conversation topics in class and after class. I think that was maybe the biggest surprise because before you get in somewhere, it is one big mystery and you're not sure if you're going to get in, you're not sure if you're of merit. And coming out knowing that you did get in and you were worth it and you are of value was. Was very reinforcing to me.

I think that's so true for the admissions process. Like you mentioned, a lot of people think, oh, I didn't cure cancer, or I'm not, you know this. I didn't sell my startup to Google when I was 17. I shouldn't even apply. No, they're. They're real people with real projects and real ideas that they're working on. And I think that they think if you're not, you know, this superhuman person, that you shouldn't even bother.

Yeah. And also, we don't. We don't think about what value we bring to them. So another surprise factor for me was this, The. This theme, this constant theme. And I'm sure there are strategic discussions among the management and the professors of thinking big, going bigger, getting published, getting on podcasts, being a public leader, a thinking, thought leader in your industry. And yes, that that's a win for us as students to, to be conditioned to go there, to feel comfortable, to. To feel worthy to go there. However, think about it on the other. On the other side. How valuable is it for Stanford University to have their alumni talking about whatever they're an export burden, inspiring others with the work in the community or the scaling that they've done? So I think we need to be much more 3D multidimensional about where value is coming from. It's not just business school giving us value. We are providing value and financial value. That's not a. That's not to go to business school. So think. I think we need to really, all of us need to think about the value we bring to whatever community we're in, whatever organization, whatever setting we're in, and gain confidence from that.

I love that. Yeah, it is. It goes both ways.

It goes both ways with mentorship as well. Think of a professor who has done so many incredible things, they are perhaps getting closer to retirement. They want to share what they've learned, and they don't want to share what they've learned with just anyone. They want to share what they learned with people who are going to take the concepts and run with them and actually generate value with their lessons. And I think we forget how valuable lessons are, how much we pay in sweat and pain and loss of money or loss of friendships to gain some of these lessons in life, in business. And it is an absolute pleasure for a professor to know that Their lessons are now generating value for someone else and perhaps something much bigger than just that person. And we also want to feel recognized for what we've done. We want to see that we're helping. And so I think as all of us look for mentors, we need to realize that we're offering value and pump that value up. Make sure you're thanking your, your mentor, wherever, whoever that mentor is thanking them, being specific about how you are applying specific, specific lessons that they shared with you and how it has changed you. So that communication piece and acting, actually taking action on lessons is incredibly important.

Yeah, Everyone likes to see that they've had a good legacy. Right. Everyone likes that. And thinking a little bit about your kind of life balance, I know that that's something that's really important to you. That year at Stanford is really, really intense. And you made an intentional choice to prioritize balance. What did that look like to you and why was it important?

First of all, I never took an early morning class. I am not an early morning person. I have to have my eight hours of sleep plus or you don't want to be hanging out with me. And so I, I knew I needed time to sleep. I needed time to cook wholesome food. I mean, if you look back at what I've done with food and nutrition these past 18 years, that, that feels very clear. And I wanted time to exercise because if I couldn't show up to class fully, emotionally and physically present, why am I spending this money to be here? Why am I taking a pause from my work to be here? And I saw too many people, professors included, on their sixth cup of coffee, sleep deprived because they did an all nighter to get something submitted. Their daily structure was just so intense that there wasn't time for everything. And so they took it out on sleep. And definitely some people neglected to go for that run or for that walk. And I wasn't going to let that happen. So I made sure to be taking the tennis classes, take advantage of the fact that there are tennis courts on campus, and just allow myself to have some compartmentalization within the day and within the week as well. I think that saved me because I felt like I was running fast, but I didn't feel like I was sprinting out of breath.

I love that. I love that. Yeah, I think it's kind of the perfect antithesis to hustle culture. Right. Because hustle culture is sustainable for a little bit, but definitely not for the long haul.

Yeah. At the end of the day, if you're happy, you Give so much more. Because it's not just about like your computing power, it's the energy that you're, that you're giving to a conversation, you're giving to a team, you're giving to a thought. So I think that's important to consider as well. We've got to show up for ourselves before we can show up for someone else or an organization. Especially when you're in bootstrapping or fundraising mode.

Oh, yeah, for sure. And if you're sleep deprived or you're just thinking about the email that you have to answer, the next thing that you have to do, you can look like you're engaged, but your brain is somewhere else.

Yeah. And I have done that and I have made sacrifices and I think that I'm not, I'm not willing to do it ever again. And I don't think it's sustainable for anyone. But no, no one wins.

Not in the long term. Maybe for a week or two to get over a hurdle. But I, I agree with you. I completely agree with you. Um, and looking back, what do you think are the largest mindset shifts that you experienced during your time at Stanford?

Think big. I actually disagreed on some levels with this think big mentality that truly was infused in every class and every conversation with professors. I think it's important to think big. And I was so grateful to, to be empowered to think big and to have very accomplished people say, kate, you've got what it takes. You, you can do this. And not just to me. This was a message to all, all of my classmates and to all of my class. However, sometimes I felt that they forgot to focus on think happy. What is your definition of happiness and life satisfaction? Because thinking big is. And going, going, going, going and forever going. And not having some sort of plateau in mind is not my objective. And I don't think it's the objective of everyone. So think happy means that we need to understand what are our goals for our family, what are our goals for our social connection? What are our goals for our impact? Because not everyone is in an impact space. I'm lucky to have everything I do be already entwined in impact. And what I would, what I would challenge Stanford Business School to rethink is that constant. Think big. Because I believe that Sprout Chef training program is making incredible impact in young adults lives. I know that. I see it. We keep stats and I hear stories and I'm, I'm in contact with some of those youth and at the same time, the, the Chateau project is an incredible hub for art, artistry, and artists of all kinds, culinary artists, designers, oil painters, et cetera. I think that is incredible impact. But I don't need to own seven or 70 chateaus to find my happy, and I don't need to be in all of Latin America and, and Europe with the chef training program in order to feel happy. And if I were to do that, it would be impacting quite a few people's lives. Yes. But I would be sacrificing my own happiness, and nothing is worth that. So I think these more rounded conversations need to be had before we just, you know, sprint in the direction of think big.

I love that. That's great advice. People should print that out, put it on their bathroom mirror, and look at that every day when they're approaching or looking at a go. Especially founders, because it can be so tempting to just want to scale, scale, scale, and this kind of pressure with other founders, right?

Absolutely. I think another. Another tool that I was able to develop was perspective taking. There's a lot of fear around failure in general. One thing at Stanford, and also this is a tenet I've always clung to in my own life, is not being afraid of defined failure. First of all, who's defining failure? It is up to us to define failure. There are very few moments in my life and my career that I would define as failure, but I would bet big money that if someone else were to have all the context variables, they would define those moments as. As failure. But no, they were expensive lessons, valuable lessons that I paid for and then I then leveraged to get to the next step. And who said progress and, and success was linear? No, it is. It is like this. And I. I also know that there are people in this world who have so little. And if I'm going to, you know, beat myself up for a bad hire or perhaps a KPI that I didn't, I didn't achieve, is that really what's important? I think the fact that the standard of performance I'm abiding to is the best possible is the most important. And what happens, what happens after that is, is what happens after that. And I think we need to accept that which we can't control and keep everything in perspective. I have a loving family. I have fantastic friends. I have food on the table, I have health. And those are the most important things. Everything else is just bonus awesome.

I love that. If you haven't listened to it yet, we've recorded another podcast with Kate where she's talking all about the scaling journey and entrepreneurship journey. As well. So make sure you check that out because there's even more of these great insights there. But let's get into our Fast Pass insights, the part of the podcast where we'll shoot you some rapid fire questions. So first up, what's something you would do differently during your time at Stanford?

That's a tough question. I think that I would have spent less time on core classes because they, they were hard and more time connecting one on one with colleagues who were in industries and who had skill sets that were beyond what I know. I think that would have added another layer of, of wealth to my experience. And not that I did not do that, but I think I could have, could have accorded more time to those really special connections and one on ones.

What was the class that had the biggest impact on you?

I think the class that had the biggest impact was my course with Norman Winarsky because it was such a small, small, intimate group. And he, he obliged all of us to focus on our own case study. So we weren't learning from other case studies, other situations that have happened in the past. We had our business model and we analyzed it, tried to try to truly understand how that could scale up and identify the weak points, which I think some of us forget to do. And Norman, the first day of class, said to the entire class, hey, you have me forever. So we have this class now, but reach out to me anytime for, for years and years after this if you have any question. And I thought that was incredibly powerful. And at first I thought he was bluffing, but, but it's true. I reach out to Norman with my questions and he was a huge, huge support as I was fundraising for Chateau de Genchre, the hospitality company I run in France. And so I would think that it was his class I had the biggest impact in me.

And what was the most unexpected part of life at Stanford?

I think the most unexpected part was the fact that none of the social engagements were planned by the school. It was all planned by the student body. And so at first that was a struggle because we had to kind of catch up and we had to align our expectations with the reality. But it ended up being incredibly, an incredibly rich experience because I was able to organize things, friends of mine were able to organize things, and we connected on a much different level with the professors as a result.

And what's a Stanford tradition or experience that more people should know about?

A Stanford tradition? I think that I didn't get caught up in the, the, the traditions as much, but I know that there was a lot of my colleagues went fountain hopping. I'm pretty sure that's a thing where you go where there's so many beautiful fountains across campus on ide, a beautiful warm day, you go jumping and swimming from fountain to fountain, which is definitely not advised by upper management, but makes for a very fun time. So I think that is, that's a fun tradition at Stanford.

That's cool. Yeah, definitely a nice warm day for that. And what's something you didn't think you'd miss about Stanford, but you do?

I think that while you're there, you're so inundated with people and being pulled to this social engagement and this party and this talk with this professor that you're almost ready for some, some like peace and quiet. And when you graduate, of course there's still quite a few social encounters. But as time, as time rolls by, you don't have all of your classmates in the same city and of course their attention is pulled to their family and their careers and their communities. So I miss sometimes that intense camaraderie that you have when you suffer through an exam with someone or have a teacher you don't like or a meal that was, you know, less than savory. Just in general, I think that when you can rejoice and suffer with someone, that creates a bond. And clearly living on campus altogether is, is a very, a very special bonding experience as well. So I, I would say that the intensity of camaraderie is something that I miss from time to time.

What's your golden buzzer insight about Stanford? One thing that you think people should know about the school that won't show up in marketing materials.

I think a lot of people have anxiety and fear around the price tag and I don't think we do a good enough job at explaining to people that there are plenty of opportunities to either take out interest free loans, interest free while you're a student and about six months after you graduate, or scholarships merit based or financial based. And I think that keeps so many people back from applying. I almost didn't apply because I was so fearful of that price tag. I was running a nonprofit, I wasn't working in banking or a big tech company. So that was a very limiting factor for me. I did get some scholarship money and eventually I decided to take out a loan loan to compliment and I was able to handle that because of government interest rates, et cetera. And you have to understand that in life if you don't invest in yourself, it is very hard to create value as fast as you might want. So bootstrapping is great, but if you can start with something bigger, a bigger network, a bigger structure, more theoretical knowledge, you can go faster and farther. That was very hard for me to understand before going to business school. And I am so glad that I had friends who had been there, done that, and told me, you must take this opportunity. We will prove you wrong. Give it a year, but take the risk.

And for our final round, what's one piece of advice that you would give somebody who's just starting their MBA today?

I would ask that they create some manifestations for themselves. What do they want to get out of this? One thing I noticed at Stanford that they all said was, come in with an empty bucket, come in without expectations. Yes. Be open to new experiences. Yes. Be curious. But you have to have some sort of goals to give you a path from which to start. And then, yes, you can pivot and you can tweak, but I think having some sort of structure going in of what you want to get out is going to be very important.

Awesome. I love that. Well, Kate, thank you so much. This has been really, really insightful. And for all of you listening, again, make sure you check out our other episode with K Hate where she talks more about the founder's journey. But it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. And if you guys listening are looking at applying to Stanford, Whether that's the MBA or the MSX program, make sure to visit our website at ellenwalleys.com or look at the link in the description. If you'd like help crafting your application. And if you're inspired by Kate's journey and want to learn more about Sprout Chef training, an organization that's making tremendous impact, visit sproutcheftraining.org to learn more. We'll see you guys on the next episode.