E#8 Masterclass in Real Leadership: Beyond the Growth Story w/ Kate Rogers Mery de Bellegarde

You have got to hold to your standard of performance, do what you know is right, lean into a hard conversation, give feedback where it is needed, let toxicity go and move away from your orbit in order to succeed. And too many times we are too afraid to be ourselves. We are too afraid of being misinterpreted. We are too afraid of offending someone. And actually, at the end of the day, it's Stymie's growth and everyone is impacted for the worse. So we've got to lean in to the uncomfortable moments.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm sitting down again with Kate Mary DeBellgaard, founder of Sprout Chef Training, an organization that has been growing at an incredible pace since her time at Stanford. But today we're going to go beyond the typical entrepreneurship story. Kate is here to talk about the things that founders don't usually talk about. The dark side of grants, how to build a mission driven team, and why human connections should be considered an actual task in your organization. So if you're a founder or you're thinking about starting a business, or maybe you're just curious about the hidden realities of leadership and impact work, this is the episode for you. So let's dive in. Kate, thank you so much for coming back. It's a pleasure to have you here. Maybe for the people who didn't catch our other episode, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Absolutely. So I felt like I was an entrepreneur already. At 8 years old, I was always the one organizing little plays or games with friends and then eventually themed dinners. Cooking club. In high school, the cow cooking club was something I founded at UC Berkeley. And even as an undergrad I started bootstrapping my very first business business called Culinary Kids, which eventually I converted to a nonprofit, Sprouts cooking club in 2009 with the help of Alice Waters. And in 2012, we added on to the cooking classes, a young adult chef training program for folks who had experienced hardship. And that was in partnership with Jamie Oliver. So we were bootstrapping kids cooking classes and this eating youth training program that all, all of which took place in restaurants. And when I went to Stanford university, the full 2021 year, I was able to really think about what was most inspiring to me and decided to fully focus on the chef training program. So we axed the cooking classes that could be maybe for another chapter in life, who knows? But today I run a for profit hospitality company at Chateau de Gencher. It is just west of Paris, about an hour driving and I Also run a nonprofit based in the United States with a lot of activity in New York City and in the San Francisco Bay area.

Where did your love for cooking and the culinary scene come from?

I think that is an interesting question. Where did this passion come from? I think it's multifaceted. My. My father is a doctor, and so for. For him, everything that we were consuming was being broken down to molecular pieces that had a role in our body. And so we had the most dynamic and interesting discussions at the dinner table. And to complement that, my mother grew up on a farm where there were rows and rows of corn and fields of cows. And nutrition for her was a much more visceral experience. Her, you know, her hands were on the ground. She was milking cows at one point. And I think that with all of this background, being raised in this context and having my own garden, my own pumpkin patch, my own rows of corn, allowed me to have a very special relationship with food and ingredients. And when I got to UC Berkeley and the first time leaving home and living in a different environment, I realized that that wasn't the norm, and I really wanted to share that. So. So that's one motivating piece and another very strong motivator in the. In the mission I chose to pursue in my life was growing up with a brother who. Who really had a hard time with behavioral issues, with legal issues, and seen some really deep lows, but also seen him hit that spiral upwards and experience very high highs and experience happiness and have a family, things that as a young teenager, I didn't think would be possible for him. And I saw that whole cycle. So I wanted to be part of that upward journey for other youth.

Experiencing hardship and sprouts has grown tremendously since your time at Stanford. What has been the most unexpected part of leading that kind of growth?

I think that when you are considering scaling, it's very easy to think of budget and fundraising. A fantastic team. Yeah. You don't have anything without an inspired team who works together, who works as a team. I think we often forget that there is another layer. It's involving people in the community that care, but they don't necessarily have the time or the resources or the skill sets to create this entire movement. They have families, they have work, they have so many other distractions in life. Can you bring them in and give them a sense of purpose and a sense of impact, but meet them where they're at, and that is an incredible. That is an incredible accomplishment. If you can, you can get to it. I think most People will say, hey, this is how I need help and these are my squares, so come and fill this need. But I will go into a potential partnership meeting and ask questions about what value means to them and is there some sort of way, win, win and equilibrium between what they want and what we want? And can we have a symbiotic relationship and not just us getting, getting, getting. And I think a lot of people forget to lead with value and find the win wins. It has to be two sided.

And when most people talk about scaling, I think they focus, like you mentioned, a lot on funding and strategy. And along those lines, what's a challenge that you face that no one prepared you for? And what's a challenge that's not, not related to the kind of standard challenges that, you know, I prepared you for?

I think to respond to this question, I'll focus more on the nonprofit that I, that I run, the nonprofit side of things. Because when most people think of a nonprofit, they're going to be like, apply for a grant, go to a foundation. They fund nonprofits. And yes, they do. However, I think that one of the most successful channels of funding for Sprout's chef training program has been companies, businesses, businesses who want to give back, who have budgets set aside to give back. And yet they have a hard time finding or even having the resources to scout nonprofits who will deliver on what they promise. And when I say deliver on what they promise, I mean, these are businesses who want to give back, but also need to show that they're giving back because their clients care about giving back. And so they want the business to be doing good in the community. But it's not enough to do that secretly. They need to make sure the clients, the stakeholders are aware. And so one of my responsibilities at Sprouts chef training program is to make sure that the donors, and especially the sponsors, the corporate sponsors, are getting the accolades and the recognition they deserve, and not only for their stakeholders, but, but to inspire other people to give. We spend so much time applying to a foundation, what I call a cold call. So we don't know anyone in the foundation. We just think it would be a good mission alignment, a good match, and yet there are hundreds, thousands of other nonprofits doing the same thing. So why not focus our time and energy, which is very limited and which should be going to our youth clients and as much as possible to pursue sponsorships who are ready to often give more and oblige you to prepare much less. And in order to sign, sign that agreement and start the Exchange.

Was there ever a moment where you realized that kind of the conventional startup wisdom wasn't working for Sprouts?

I think that at business school, they. They talk about building teams, hiring slowly, firing fast, some of the techniques for management and communication, huge communication, having the whole team using the same communication tools, your investor group using the same communication tools, your advisory group, same communication tools, all of that is very, very important. I don't think that the business school prepared me enough to figure out how to tease out value where maybe it's not apparent at the beginning. And again, that is sometimes case by case, call by call, with a donor, with a partner, with a celebrity chef, with a big company who wants to. To give back, but maybe is slightly off with their mission and just needs a conversation of realignment? There are so many case scenarios where we can tease out that value, but it takes time and it takes case by case. So standardization, which is a huge part of scaling up, is not always apropos in those situations.

And you've talked a lot about leadership and building the right team, and I think that's probably one of the most critical things of building, like you've mentioned, a successful organization. Looking back at where you started, what piece of leadership advice would you give yourself to make that whole process of leading your team smoother?

There are so many. There are so many lessons that I've learned along the way. Probably because I fell flat on the floor a few times and just had to pick myself back up one. I think there is the balance between confidence and authority and humility. People want to know that they are being listened to. That does not mean you have to say yes and people please to every request that comes in. But you need to be an active listener. You need to have empathy. You need to make sure they know you know where they're coming from. I think it is so easy for, for anyone, leaders, colleagues, to people please and to want to have things go smoothly. Business bootstrapping, any sort of movement upwards is never 100% peaceful. And you have to lean into the conflict and understand that it is inevitable, ineluctable. I really had a hard time with conflict that would arise and it was very difficult for me to then detach and then have my, my personal life and my family life. It would all kind of mesh together. And I'm still working through this. But I think that we have got to understand, I am not you. We are not responsible for someone else's emotions or someone else's interpretation of what you said. All we can do is hold to that rod of standard of performance. Have we used the correct communication tools? Even if we made a mistake, were we leading with the best intentions we had? I think this is a conversation that is not being had in the leadership, in the leadership world, in team dynamics, we beat ourselves up because we got this feedback point and this went wrong. All we can do is be human with the best intentions. And also another thing we've got to start doing more is investing in our superpowers and building those up, talking those up, building your team around your superpowers to let them fly, rather than spending hours and hours thinking about all the things you're not good at, all of those little muscles you have that just will never be. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be working on our weak points. Obviously we need to be aware, we need to be conscious leaders. But the return on investment you will get from focusing on your superpowers and the things you are just naturally really good at is going to give you so much more yield than focusing on all the things you will never be exceptional at.

And now that your business has scaled more, you're not just in the Bay Area anymore and you're also working on your shop chateau business in France. You're not able to be there in person every day with your entire team. How do you maintain a strong sense of team and how do you maintain those good lines of communication?

Absolutely. I think that there's so much we can do with virtual. There are chats and coffee dates virtually where people can do one offs, but also orchestrating a team meeting where people really have a safe place to discuss. And again, this isn't happening enough, but it should. Every team should be coached on communication tools so that you know what your tangible skills are tools are so that when someone comes at you with feedback, you understand where they're coming from and you and you see what's in their toolbox. Because sometimes we're trying to get the same message across, but we're doing it in different ways. So I think that to keep camaraderie, it's important that we all have the same communication tools in the toolbox. I also think that it's very important and I made this mistake so many years to start meetings with conversation, with chatting, connecting on the human level first before getting to business. And that means scheduling in structurally time for that or even making sure that your next meeting is not back to back. This is something I struggle with even today. So scheduling in time for a little bit of break so that if the meeting right before has a lot of energy, has a lot of ideas. There is some time between. And also for a bathroom break, a tea break, whatever it is, so that you're showing up on time and fresh to the next meeting. And that's definitely something that will take me many more months to, to master, but it's something I'm very aware of right now.

Absolutely. Yeah. Having that back to back, I've got so much to do, but also wanting to just knock it out. I've got emails to answer and all these other things too. It's tempting just to put this back to back. And you we talked a little bit about grant funding and the role that that plays in fueling the success of a nonprofit and also kind of the dark side of that. But for founders who might be looking at grant funding, what do you think they should know before they take that leap?

I think that grant funding does much better when you have a warm lead. So instead of looking up a bunch of grants, why don't we start by becoming thought leaders? Why don't we start by building up our board of advisors, our donor base, and allow them to introduce us to grants that are mission aligned? The pain point that foundations are feeling is we've got this money and we expect impact from it. So do you have what it takes to make sure we get the return on impact that we're looking for? So how? Roll heavy procedures to fill out forms and submit financial statements, audits, et cetera. However, if there is someone on that decision team that knows someone from your board or someone who knows someone for your board and can say, hey, I know what's happening internally at this nonprofit, I can vouch for them, it's exceptional what they're doing. Then the details of the financial statements, et cetera, all that's important. But it is no longer weighted so heavily because you have the inside scoop. And I think that there's a lot of people who might have a problem with that. Like, oh, well, it's who you know. It's not merit based. No, it is merit based. You have to have the content, you have to be doing the impact. But it's helpful when someone you trust can vouch for you and you be a liaison between the foundation desperately looking for truly impact forward nonprofits and your nonprofit.

We talked a little bit about this in our last episode. But for people who maybe haven't heard that looking at donors and even investors, how do you decide which donors or which investors should be part of your community, which should be part of Your company.

This is also an incredibly loaded question because imagine if you have someone, we'll, we'll focus on the nonprofit. You have someone who has, is willing to pay the board dues, is willing to show up to events, but their communication is off. The way they give feedback is very shame. Forward is aggressive. It's, it's not being led with curiosity. And they leave you and your team feeling like a failure, feeling like you're not good enough. All of the things that could be better are highlighted rather than expressed as, wow, in a year we could get here if we do A, B and C. So I find that it's not enough to give resources. It's not enough to know the right people. Can you contribute positive energy? Can you uplift the people around you? Can you avoid gossip? Can you frame things to be improved as opportunities to get better and better and bigger and evolve? Or do you tend to see the negative and bring people down? I think too many times we will say this person has this skillset, we need them, and yet they're bringing toxicity into the group. I have very little patience with any toxicity in the orbit of my team or my personal orbit. I think everyone should be leading with joy. And so we need to make sure the people investing, contributing to your community are also sharing those values.

And it can be a little difficult when you're meeting someone for the first time to see if that is what they're really like. Do you kind of analyze when you're first meeting someone if they're a good fit?

You don't know at the beginning? I think there are some people who have sharp eqs and can read little, little cues as the conversation unravels. But ultimately you need time to interact with these people when things go well. When things don't go well, what are the reactions? What are the interactions with other. With other team members and board members? And so giving yourself time to make the decision together because the stakeholder also has a decision to make, is this a good fit for them? Is it bringing lift and value to them? Then after that decision is made, understanding that this is a symbiotic relationship and it's constantly evolving and if for any reason it falls out of the win win zone, then we can modify that status and things can change. Nothing needs to be forever and Sprouts.

Is really unique in that it's such a mission driven organization and always has been. As a leader, how do you ensure that your entire team, whether that's donors or board members or the team that's working day to day stays on mission.

That's a really good question. There are so many tenants to running a nonprofit. So there's the fundraising, there's the programming, direct work with the youth. Then there's the scalability and the operations. There is the governance board, management, sponsorship management. And it can be very easy to be in your little pillar all by yourself and forget that we're doing all of this because at the end of the day, we're helping youth, what I call the boots on the ground team members, the folks who are working with the youth directly are in a very powerful position because they can bring it back to the stories and to the stats that they're seeing unravel like day by day.