E5 ESADE Admissions Secrets with Admissions Director Beatriz Campos

A yes candidate is someone who is checking many boxes.

Right.

We look into the application and we say, okay, good academics, good test scores, sound essays, great essays or compelling essays. You know, very open hearted and very deep in their research and how they're projecting themselves.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to MBA Golden Buzzer. Today I'm joined by Beatrice Campus, the admissions director at Azade, to div deep into a question that every MBA applicant wants answered, which is what makes an application truly stand out. We're going to talk about how Azade evaluates fit, the most common mistakes applicants make and the difference between a good application and an absolutely great one. So if you're applying this year or even just thinking about an mba, this episode is full of insider insights you don't want to miss. Let's get started. So, Beatriz, thank you so much for joining me today. It's always a pleasure to talk with you. Could we start off today maybe just by getting to know you a little better, your background, how did you start working at Azadeh?

Sure.

So, well, Ellen, this is great pleasure. I mean, coming to your podcast is definitely something that everybody is kind of looking forward to. In the backstage we talk about this, you know, are you next? So we're always looking forward to who's next in the pipeline for your Golden Buzzer podcast. So thanks for having me here. Yes, well, to make a long story short, I transitioned recently from. From a consulting prep like you do today. So I joined Estade in October 2024. I've known the school for over nine years since I started working with consulting, you know, admissions consulting. But truth is that there is always one thing between Sade and I. I was always a little bit drawn by the school, by the school motto, by the school culture. So when the invitation came on, it wasn't very hard for me to say yes to a Sade, you know, and so nine years, almost nine years and a half working with admissions consulting, preparing candidates for masters and MBAs around the world, and then choosing one school to represent. So that truly makes my heart beat a little bit faster because there's this still feels like a little like a dream coming true, you know, transitioning to the other side. It's a weird feeling. I can tell you from where I was sitting six months ago, like you right now. I mean, it is, it still feels like a weird feeling for me, but it is rewarding. It is rewarding to cross over and see that instead of sending candidates to other schools, I'm just now recruiting for one school from one brand. So that is interesting.

And I bet it's, it's super interesting as well too. And also one of the great reasons that you're an awesome guest for this podcast, to see the differences. Right. Of when you're preparing an applicant, how to tell their story, how to put all that together versus how to analyze it, what the school's looking for. I bet that's been such an interesting transition for you.

Yes, it was a very different transition. I can tell you that for the first couple of rounds, I was initially like struggling to change the mindset because it's normal.

Right.

You've been doing this for how long as well, Ellen? So we're so used to telling a story from one angle, and now I'm reading the stories from another angle. So it is interesting to see how that shifts and how much you have to change your brain to be a little bit more attentive to details, to information.

Right.

And what message is that person trying to convey? So it is a different. It's changing, literally, like changing glasses and say, okay, what do I need to see now that I didn't see before? Or that I wasn't putting like a magnet, you know, a big lenses on top of it just to see through it. So I think that this is one of the greatest changes of mindset and perspective while doing, talking to candidates today.

What's one of those things that for you is a difference in perspective that.

You say, oh, this does true. Yeah. We don't, we don't feel that the GMAT has to be. The tests have to be like a deal breaker, you know, to send a sound no or a sound ding to a person.

Right.

But we still need to see kind of a performance happening. So that's why that makes sense.

That makes sense. And speaking of that, what separates a yes application from kind of a maybe or a no beyond just the gmat, which we, I think we've covered pretty well.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I think that the yes candidate is the one that is completely authentic and genuine. We can see that the person has done the due diligence.

Right?

Yeah.

They've talked to the people. If they made it to campus or made it to some event like remote online, it doesn't really matter. A yes candidate is someone who is checking many boxes.

Right.

We look into the application and we say, okay, good academics, good test scores, sound essays, great essays or compelling essays, you know, very open hearted and very deep in their research and how they're projecting themselves and also their recommendations because we also have to kind of validate everything throughout the recommendations. So I think that in my view greatest yes candidate is someone who is kind of checking all these boxes and you can see through the essays, specifically through the essays that they are capable of connecting with the school and they would be a good fit like a good match. They would just like okay walk into class first day and then boom. That person is like fully immersed, engaged and welcomed by the community and welcoming of others as well. No candidate is that candidate. We can't really put a finger on it if he she really wants the school.

Yeah, yeah.

Being too generic in the application, kind of trying to copy and paste from other applications. We've seen that hundreds, thousands of times.

Right.

So the candidate is doesn't even put an effort on how can I adjust this application or whatever material you have produced already to one school. And the no candidate is also going to be the one that you know the GMAT is very low or the GPA is super low. So there isn't anything that we can say oh is this person going to be able to academically perform? I'm not even talking about outperforming. I'm talking I mean performing average kind of average on classes. And that is our major concern like putting someone who is maybe he's too young. He. She's too young like when you're two years of work experience. So whatever is being discussed in class is going to be miles away from his her comprehension because they simply haven't leaved that situations, those kind of situations yet they don't even know how to.

Right.

And then the one that really I mean I think that this was one of our major concerns putting someone into our, our class because it's a small class, it's 180 people only.

Right.

For the MBA we don't want to outgrow this number. We like to have like a more intimate relation with our candidates like close tight and close knitted community. So I mean how is this person going to thrive? Is this person going to be you know be able to land an internship, land a full time offer later? Not so by doing this kind of assessment. I understand that sometimes it's not even fair because the person might not have put a lot of effort but it's still a good candidate.

Yeah, that's tough.

I know. I mean my efforts sinks. I mean it just goes deep into that. I mean at the end of the day we also have to look into the bigger picture. Yeah we have to look into this big chess board that we have at with 180 places and we are moving around because if we only had. If we only received 180 applications for 180 seats, that would be, you know, easy.

Yeah, great.

Everybody in, no worries. So still, come on.

Right?

But we receive out a lot more than that. We receive 600, 700 applications. And I guess that with the rankings, the transition in moving up into the rankings, making it to number eight, I think that this will. This will definitely draw a little bit more attention into the program, into the school. So I think that this is kind of what I would say, you know, a no candidate would be someone that has failed to commit to the process and is not being able to deliver consistent information for us that we can understand that this person is going to be able to thrive in the program.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think that is the biggest issue for us, I think.

And something that you mentioned, with kind of effort and visiting campus, you know, we know, is really difficult for some people. If you live in Spain and you're not visiting campus, something's wrong. But if you live in Latin America or you live in Asia, I mean, you know, it's. We understand, of course, like, it might not be the easiest. Right. For someone to visit, and as that, I'm sure, also feels that way. But it doesn't cost anything to attend a webinar. It doesn't cost anything to reach out to students. You can do that. And when somebody doesn't, for me, that's always a red flag that maybe you don't really want this very much.

And sometimes, Ellie, what I feel is that candidates. I've seen this happen a couple of times, so I have background information to back me up. For instance, okay, I've seen candidates like, I'm too good, right? With this kind, I'm too good attitude. And this is also like a red flag for everybody, for every admissions officer is like, okay, maybe you need to adjust your attitude because this is a very competitive process and maybe we don't need that. But the person who says, I'm too good, I will just submit my application without attending a webinar or going into a. An MBA fair in their cities. I mean, if you go to campus, I understand that getting a ticket from Brazil or, you know, thousands of kilometers away to visit campus, I understand it is very costly. Costly. And I understand that not everybody in this game has that money to do something like that before going to the mba. They are saving, right? They're saving for the process. They're saving for the admittance fee. So they're saving for that. And we understand that. But what we cannot really understand is why if we offer so many online info sessions, you have a luminai network. Come on, just reach out on LinkedIn or you're in your inner circle. Like someone working next door to you might be an alumni from one of our those business schools, including a sade. So why not reach out to that person, right? And maybe attend an MBA fair or a master fair happening in your city. I understand that Brazil is pretty big, like a country with continental dimensions. So whenever I say we are having, hosting a fair in so Paulo on March 16, okay, but you leave 4,000 kilometers away. It might not be, you know, something manageable for you. But if some, if you manage to arrange your schedule and see, okay, where are the, or when are the next MBA fairs or master fairs happening? Yeah, maybe I can coordinate a weekend in town and be a little bit more present in this sense. So I think that there are ways for the candidate to get connected with the community and understanding a little bit more about the school culture, the people culture, and, you know, just feeling closer to it. Because some candidates feel that the schools are in the podium and they're like unreachable.

No, no, no, no, no.

We are reachable. We are people like everybody else and we are very accessible. So just reach out.

Right? Azade is so good at that over the years, you know, being super accessible, talking to people, answering questions. I think that's definitely one of the school's strengths.

Thank you.

You talked a little bit about fit and I know that that's a big part of the process because you are such a tight knit community. Right. So what does fit actually mean for Azadeh and how can applicants demonstrate that in their application?

I think that fit for us means someone who is inclusive, who can uphold and live up to that value. You know, fit is someone who is capable of contributing to our community inside and outside of class. Because I think that Juan Sesade's motto is do good, do better. I think that this says a lot about the school. And to be honest, we walk the talk of do good, do better.

Right?

We're doing good by supporting candidates on their academic growth, in their career development, in their personal contests as well accomplishments. So we are all into that, okay? Starting with admissions and then going into campus with faculty mentors, career centers and marketing. So it's a big effort from everybody and being able to fit into that community and understanding that what you're doing today in class as someone who is undergoing the program tells a story how you need to Contribute to us beyond your mba, beyond your master's or your undergrad degree. So I think that fitting into a SADE means that you're up to do good while you are in the program and do better, especially after. Because I think that with all the knowledge that you acquire during any kind of program, it is kind of implicit, right, that yeah, I should do better later. I mean, now that I know all of that, that I have this big package of knowledge, information, skills and network, I have to do better.

Yeah, right.

Why not? Why fall short and not do better?

Right.

I love that motto. That is such a good motto.

Yeah.

One that we can all take to heart.

Yeah, we can all take it to heart. It doesn't matter. We borrow it, we lend it, so you can use it. Good.

Life motto.

Use it. Yes, Life motto. That's true.

And what's one common mistake that you see in applications that instantly weakens their chances for use?

That is tricky because I'm a softer reading application. So I have a soft spot here with that. But I think that a weak application is that kind of copy paste candidate who didn't really adjust his story to the school culture, to the school community, and kind of a general application when you feel that the application is too generic. I mean, I want to go into a multinational, truly. Yeah. Well, which industry, which area?

Right.

In which role do you want to do that? So I think that the weakest application is that one that we can't really connect and relate with the school culture and with the school community at all. That kind of super general. That is superficial. That person might have even taken time writing that. I'm not saying that it was written on the spot, but still, I mean, have in mind that someone is going to take time to read that.

Yeah.

Okay.

We don't discard applications because of score. So we read all of those.

Right.

And then making sure that whoever is reading that can clearly sees who you are.

Right.

Because I think that the weakest application is that one that you go through the entire pack of essays, recommendations, or even the curriculum. Come on. Curriculum is the first thing we see. It has to be formatted. It has to be. It has to stand on itself. If you don't send an essay, think like that.

Right.

If you can't send an essay and someone is going to assess your entire application based on your curriculum, what is your curriculum telling me? Yeah, I don't need a description of your role. I need to understand what were the accomplishments you've done while in that position. This is what we Want to see? So when we take an application that the resume is not really formatted for admissions, for a master's or MBA admissions, the essays are generic and superficial. You can't really put a finger on, okay, why is what drives this person to apply to a program now if we can't see any of this? I mean, that is a very weak application.

Yeah, definitely.

And the recommendations as well, Ellen, if the candidate doesn't kind of instruct his recommenders, like, at least discuss. Look, you can sell me as the, you know, Superman superwoman, but whatever you say, you have to be coherent and back it up.

Right.

And back it up with situations and projects and examples. I mean, just don't give me a laundry list of, he's fantastic, he's smart, she's, you know, communicative and very sociable. But, okay, give me a situation when you were all those things. So the WECA application that is really going to trigger all our yellow and red flags, you know, and that I'm like, okay, this is a little bit iffy. Yeah, I'm not very sure about this candidate then. That is a candidate is probably going to go into a wait list and we're going to, you know, maybe invite for interview or kind of reassess the pack again. But, you know, most likely this is a person who is going to get a wait list or denied later.

Yeah, yeah.

And kind of effort in, effort out. Right. Like what you put into it is what you get out of it a lot of.

Exactly, exactly. And we all know that either if it's in admissions or anything else in your life.

Right?

Yeah.

You get what you put into it. And the interview is also something that I think people stress out a lot about. They worry so much about making a good impression, which is great. But what makes a candidate really stand out in the interview process?

Well, I've started doing interviews with candidates in October.

Right.

I prepare them for interviews before, and I'm now interviewing some of these candidates.

Right.

So what I think when I look into a candidate and I see that this person is prepared, he's gone through his application pack again, because candidates submit 5, 7, 10, and it's multiples of applications to several business schools. So read again. So we can say that when I look into an interview, when a candidate. I'm saying, look, this person is prepared. He went through his application again. He looked into Internet and downloaded a bunch of questions. And he doesn't have to be rehearsed. Okay. He doesn't have to be reading answers out of a chatgpt screen next to his computer. But I also think that the person needs to be prepared. They don't have to panic.

All right?

The interview is to validate a lot of the things that we've read into the application. But then why do we do the interview? Why do we host the interview? Because sometimes we need to go deeper into certain questions, certain things that have not been fully covered in the application, or sometimes the person has a weak TOEFL score. But by listening and by talking to the person, you can see that the person might be one of those candidates that are terrible test takers, but they can communicate. And if they can communicate, then the drama is off the table. And then the interview is something that we use to literally understand, to put a face to the application, to see a little of the body language. Although people get super nervous. But see the facial expression. I'm. I have Italian descent, so I'm always talking with my hands. Either if I'm relaxed or if I'm super nervous. It tells.

Right.

But the truth is that the interview is part of the process. We can't really take it off.

Right.

But the candidates don't need to be stressed out. I understand that there is a lot of pressure and anxiety that builds up into that. What if I say something wrong? What if I stutter in my interview? If you stutter in your interview, you stutter in your interview. And nobody's going to die because of that.

We all do.

Yeah, we all do. On a daily basis.

You know, shake it off and just go with the flow, you know? And we also understand that I'm not a native English speaker, so sometimes I completely blank out on words that I have no clue. And it's normal that someone under stress for an interview might also have the same. So I know that they panic. Like, what if I. What if. No, just go with the flow.

Yeah.

Okay.

If you have a strong accent, if you blank out or whatever happens, just go with the flow.

Good advice.

I think that it tells an effort as well, that you're, you know, just going through it, you know, just ripping off the band aid and just doing the interview.

I can do it. Yeah. I always tell candidates, it's okay. They know you're nervous. It's fine. They know you're nervous. They're not expecting you to come in and be like, oh, yeah, I got this. You know, everything's perfect.

Yeah.

Seem like you don't want to be there or you don't seem very excited. That's a red flag.

Exactly. Exactly.

So don't Worry. And nobody knows what's in your head. Right. Nobody knows that word that you're looking for. Just use another one.

Know what you could have said if you don't say it? So. Oh, I, I wish I had said that. But that's gone, right? That water is already under the bridge. It's gone. Okay. If you thought about something but you didn't say it, we are never gonna know. We are not gonna miss it because we never knew what you wanted to say.

Right.

Don't stress about it later.

Exactly. Don't overthink and you know, just pull your hair off like, oh, I. That. Well, maybe then you can send a thank you note to the interviewer and then just bring something up into that thank you note. So be super. Exactly like, oh, I remember. I just wanted to share just a little tiny piece of information about this and two lines about this new fact. And that's it.

Right.

Not a new essay, but just a thank you note with a two line, three lines that you wanted to bring something else to the interviewer's acknowledgment and that's.

It makes sense.

It makes sense. And some applicants have kind of these lower test scores or they don't have non, they have non traditional backgrounds. What's the best way to position themselves to kind of overcome that or stand out?

Yeah, we've got this a lot like lawyers or even I had nurses applying to programs once. Lawyers. We have a lawyer now at a study and she's, she's doing great. And the first concern is, okay, I have a non business background. I'm like, hallelujah.

Right?

Because if the world was just made of economists, business managers, engineers, consultants, come on. It is just, you know, it is a pretty big chunk of it. It is a big chunk of it. We get it. So when we see someone with a, you know, a medical doctor background or a lawyer or I don't know, we.

Worked with a nuclear submarine scientist once.

That was exactly someone who is a physicist. And we're like, what? This is incredible. Read something completely, you know, off grid for once in, you know, 600 applications. So I think that the person has to understand that because they're not into the big bulk. This is great. Yeah, this is great. Person who should not be concerned about, am I lacking something? Am I going to fail this? No, no, no, no. We like this. We like diversity. I mean, etisade, I was joking around that we look like a mini United nations because at any given day there are 80 nationalities walking around on campus. So you Hear different accents of English. You hear different languages coming around. And I'm not talking about Catalan and Spanish. I'm talking English, Portuguese, Portuguese from Brazil, Portuguese from Portugal, or Portuguese from Africa. And so there is a big variety. So whenever we see something that is unusual or different, we are interested. We are naturally interested into that. And the candidate should not be afraid or concerned because he. She is different. How is it going to be perceived? It is going to be welcomed by the admissions, for sure. We understand that maybe this kind of candidate is. They do not have like amazing GMAT or GRE scores. It is difficult. It's a little bit more difficult and trickier for them to perform in this kind of tests. Their brains are differently, are wired differently. Yeah, that is my, my, my, you know, simple answer to that. And they, they will hardly outperform like an engineer in this kind of test.

Yeah, probably not.

And so it's going to be different.

All right.

They may do better, for instance, in the verbal section, but not in the quant. So we need to assess that. And we do assess that. We take into consideration that the different background is going to perform differently on standardized tests, but we also welcome those because it brings diversity. It brings diversity of background of thought, of how they respond to certain questions in class or discussions. They have different experiences. Like, can you imagine having a doctor sitting next to you and that person is talking about patient keys into the or? But bear in mind that doctor does also need to have a strategy. He also needs to have a team working with him or her in the or. So there are several things that we. If we plot it from one industry to another, I mean, that person is going to have a very different perspective of strategy, of interpersonal relationships, because there is a life threat on the line.

Right.

But then, okay, how can this person contribute to our community? Come on. It's incredible to see that diversity of thought happening during class. Yeah, it's amazing. And how it opens up some people's minds on. Well, I never thought about this. I never thought that you needed a strategy in an or. Well, it happens that you do great communication skills. Great communication skills.

Right.

And if you plot into this situation or this mindset into any other scenario, it's also going to be different and adjustable and flexible. So we like this, we like different profiles because we see that they can generally contribute to opening up people's minds and perspectives about certain industries and how they can absorb or implement some of those skills into their daily routines. So this is what we like too.

Yeah, it's super Interesting, those stories. Not that we don't love you consultants and investment bankers. It's really fascinating to hear those stories too, but.

Exactly.

It is, it is really interesting. Like, wow, I never thought about that before. It does, it does make you think.

True.

And what's something about the admissions process at Azadeh that you think applicants often misunderstand?

I think that they misunderstand the importance of being authentic.

Yeah.

It is a process because we need to evaluate everything and everyone fairly and evenly.

Yeah.

But I think that one of the biggest misconceptions and underrated tips, you know, is that, that they need to understand that they have to try to perform. They need to see that they can. They need to tell us that they can do this.

And ChatGPT is not the best way to be authentic. So keep that in mind, guys who are writing your application, because I think.

That once you are authentic, there are going to be several consultants, engineers, you know, investment bankers, financial market professionals. So how they stand out. I think that telling your own story is the one way for you to achieve that.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Because they're always going to be M and A deals. They're always going to be, you know, project implementation or something, or logistics, supply chain. There is always going to be something. But bring us into your story.

Yeah, I love that.

That's great advice. Good thing to be thinking about from the beginning all the way through to the end.

Yes.

Be yourself. Be authentic. Share what makes you you. Right, exactly. So let's get into our fast pass insights where we're going to give you some rapid fire questions. So first question. What's one word you would use to describe a success? Successful as a applicant.

I mean, does it bother you that I say that? Being authentic.

No, it's being authentic.

Being genuine to yourself and showing us, let us see through you. This is it.

And what's the biggest essay cliche that you would suggest people avoid?

When I started working with admissions nine and a half years ago, Ellen, I think that every essay that I laid hand on and eyes on started with ever since I was a little girl or ever since I was a little boy or you know, as far as I can remember or since childhood. So I was like, okay, by the time that person hits adulthood, how, how many words? What's the essay length that they need?

Right, right.

I was like, okay, you're 20 something already. How many I gonna get? When am I actually gonna get through this moment?

Right.

So I think that the biggest mistake I've seen candidates do is taking too long or Dwelling in the story just to give a lot of background.

Okay.

And I think that this is normal. Latins like to tell a story.

Right.

I think that this is part of the Latin culture as well. But I think that candidates need to understand that they need to jump into what the question is being asked. So I think that the best way to answer is read back the question a thousand times if you need to.

Right.

And read through your essay and say, okay, am I answering all the questions here? What are your career goals? How is this program? How is a study going to help you achieve that? And what is going to be your legacy or whatever? How are you going to contribute to our community going forward? So make sure that if you have a compounded question that whenever you're answering those that you go back into, okay, did I answer this? Did I answer that? Did I answer a third part? And, okay, am I concise enough, or am I losing track of, you know, just giving a lot more background? And now I don't have word count left to answer the actual question, whatever is being asked to. So I think that this is the big thing that I always tell candidates, and I think that whenever they're writing an essay, they should really pay attention to.

Yeah, that's good advice.

That's great advice. And what's the most underrated part of the application process?

I think that the most underrated part of the application is the story itself. Candidates, sometimes they. They don't value their stories.

Yeah.

I say, I joke around with the Brazilian candidates that they have the underdog syndrome.

Right.

So sometimes they're like, oh, but my story is too plain.

Yeah.

I mean, that is your story. I mean, I can't change that.

Right.

So I think that the most underrated part of the application is the story itself. Candidates sometimes take for granted what story they have. Like, thinking, I didn't accomplish much. I didn't conquer the world. I didn't close a $200 billion MA deal, so how can I. Well, you can with whatever you have been put into so far. So I think that this is it.

And is Isade considering at all adding a video essay to the application for the time being?

No. No, because we have. Our essays are kind of interesting. They give us an idea of that. The candidate has done the homework, done the due diligence. But we also have some of the very creative kind of essays.

Right.

Like, if you're telling a foreigner visiting your country what would be like a landmark or a place that you would recommend that person to do, or so we have like different essays that will trigger the candidate to outreach their normal stories and whatever narrative they had in mind beforehand. So we are pushing them to look into something else a little bit outside the box.

Yeah.

But I don't think that we are considering adding a video component into the application soon. That might change.

Could change, but for now, you can all breathe easily.

Exactly. And I know that the video component is a very big drama for most candidates. Like, I hate speaking to a camera. Stressful. How am I going to prepare for that? And this. So I understand that this stresses candidates, but as of now, we don't have that into, like, into the pipeline.

And let's get to our final round question. What's one small but powerful change that an applicant can make to instantly strengthen their application?

I think that powerful trick, I mean, I think that would be telling me, telling the reader.

Right.

That why he. She really wants the school. It has to be very clear for us why our school. Why do good to do better connects with you. Why being in Spain or why being in a smaller community rather than a larger one makes sense to you. So I think that the power in that is really going to say, well, if that person gets accepted into other two, three schools, we're still on top of his. Her list.

Okay.

We would still be their number one, the go to choice.

Okay.

So I think that the powerful thing for them to convey to us is why they really want us.

Awesome.

Yeah, that's great advice. Make sure it's not like a job interview where you're playing the field and trying to look.

Exactly.

Make sure we feel the love.

Exactly. We want to feel loved. We love candidates. We love our candidates, our students and alumni networks. But we need to feel that you love us too.

All right.

At one point, this is like, we're into getting into a relationship, so we need to feel that you're interested into us as much as we're interested in having you into our community. So we're going to. We're. We're ready to open the door for you, but we really need to make sure that you want to cross it. If we open it, you're going to cross it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. You've given amazing advice. It's been such a pleasure.

Thank you so much. Ellie.

Thank you to have you.

I'm very happy to have to be here as well.

We're. We have another episode with Beatriz as well, so make sure that you guys also check that out. She's a wealth of information, so thank you again. It's It's a pleasure to have you.

Thank you.

And if you guys are interested in learning more about applying to Azade with us or any other top business school, check out our website to learn more about working with us. And we hope to see you all again on a future episode.

Thank you so much. Ellen, thanks so much for the invitation and good luck to everybody.

Thanks.

Have a good rest of your day.

Bye.