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Welcome to Glue Guys. We're your hosts, Shane Battier, Ravi Gupta and Alex Smith.

And we're bringing you behind the scenes of the locker rooms, the boardrooms and the living rooms that taught us everything we know about what it takes to be great leaders and even better teammates and friends.

We hope the conversation helps you bring more ambition and more joy to your own work life and relationships. It certainly has for us.

Today. Resilience, struggle, all the good stuff.

Honestly, like, I feel like I've been struggling not to use that word too much, but like, where to start with this and you know, even like resilience.

Few weeks ago, we actually started talking a little bit of just like. I think the big thing that is not understood for me is how much went on before the injury. There's like sort of a pre injury thing. That's actually like a pretty incredible story in my opinion that I like really wanted to hear. I remember being on the edge of my seat, the super bowl, sitting there with the C on your jersey and getting up for the coin toss. But we didn't even get to any of that other stuff. I would propose that we start with, man, like after you get there, you're the number one pick. It seems like it's every kid's dream. What happens then? Shane, you tell me if you think that's a good way to start.

Look, this is called Glue Guys and we Are all known for making things work, but we're all pretty darn good in our own way. I mean, you're Pro bowl quarterback. You're Pro bowl quarterback. I mean, how many people in the history of ever playing football ever taken a snap could say they're a Pro bowl quarterback?

For sure.

Right? I mean, that's part of this. Again, going back to what we talked about, glue guys before, being called a glue guy, being called a game manager, being called all these things, which can be disparaging, doesn't mean you can't be a real dude at the top of the game.

Blue guys with resumes. That was your edit.

Yeah, for sure.

Yes.

You've talked about this before, Shane. Like, narratives can flip so fast on that. Same thing. My last few years in San Francisco, the game manager thing was definitely thrust upon me and was kind of this negative thing because the team was so good. The team was so good around me. And it was like this idea maybe that I was even, like, a limiting factor in it. And then I got traded to Kansas City, who was the number one pick in the draft. They'd won two games the year before. Two games. And obviously an entire regime change. We go there. I won my first nine games doing the same things. Like, I was playing very much the same style of football, but the narrative is like, oh, he's a winner. That came out. He's a winner. It's so funny. But I really felt like my style and even statistically was no different. It was funny. Just the narrative, I guess, obviously the lens you look at it through. I think, for me, where this all started, when you're in the middle of this, when I'm in the middle early in my career and trying to figure it out, and you're just going. You don't have time to look up and glance around and have perspective, and you're just trying to get through things. And I got to the end of my career, and I have this crazy, crazy physical injury, right? I break my leg, Old Joe Theisman injury, and then this gnarly infection, and it sets me down this path, and I somehow miraculously come back and freaking play. I'm still baffled by. Well, that season ends, and this has been a whirlwind. The season ends. Covid is hit the world and, like, all this stuff's going on. And in the midst of that, I haven't had any time to reflect. And freaking Ted Ted Talks reaches out to me and was like, we'd love to have you speak this year. Oh, I didn't know that obviously everybody knows about TED and it's the red circle and like super cool innovation and tech and you know, obviously I played in San Francisco and so was very familiar with that entire world, the venture world and startup world. That is ted. And so it was weird. I'm like, you're asking me an athlete, so very strange, humbled by. But like also was like, well what the hell am I going to talk about? What's important. It started this reflection process for me on my injury. But for me, like you said Ravi, like it was so much more than the injury, like my journey. I was definitely pulled back to things early on in my career that I struggled with that actually helped me. Like if I hadn't gone through those things earlier in my career, I never would have accomplished coming back from my injury. That never would have happened if I hadn't learned the lessons earlier in my career. The light bulb came on as I kind of reflected again I was lucky enough to play 16 years and then going on before that college and high school. And you have this for me, this 25 year journey of football, I guess as I'm looking at it, and every major moment of that career and really of my life had come from struggle. Every time I had growth or I learned something or something seriously important happened to me, it always spawned from me struggling adversity. And I think it was something easier when I was on that side of it reflecting back that I gained that perspective and like really changing my attitude towards it for so long. Adversity sucks. None of us want to go through adversity hard times. That's crappy and you feel unlucky when that happens. And for me, this light bulb aha moment maybe I had this completely wrong mindset towards adversity and struggle and that these were all blessings, all of them. On the other side of it, when.

Is the first time you had that realization? Like what was your first piece of adversity you had in your life that.

You said, oh man, this is tough for me? Honestly this is going to sound ridiculous. I grew up in San Diego and I joke with this all the time. Like it was a really rough upbringing. Freaking San Diego, California. I'm the third of four kids. I grew up with a great middle class family. I didn't have problems and struggle at all. I didn't know it. Like I was just cruising along really, really lucky. And even on the football side of it, my high school running back was Reggie Bush. Come on, we won every single game and I didn't even have to do anything. And it was ridiculous. And I somehow got one scholarship offer to go play at Utah and happened to be timed with Urban Meyer coming and like the dawn of the spread option. And no one had ever seen it before in this incredible timing that matched up with this offense that really shined a light on the quarterback. And for two years I lit it up in college, very much a product of my surroundings. And all of a sudden I'm at the Heisman and I'm the number one pick in the draft. And that, Shane, like right there is where things change for me. Like the first time I ever really knew adversity was I was a 20 year old kid and I had just become the number one pick in the NFL. Again, my pictures on every newspaper in the country. This is a blessing. Like, again, like think about how crazy that is, what I just said. Like, that's every childhood, boys. Like, if you're a football fan, that's your dream come true. And that for me was the moment when holy, how did I get here? How did this even happen? I'm in over my head.

Alex, can I tell you something real quick on that? That's so crazy when you're a kid, I mean, you said you never dreamed of going to the NFL. It was too big of a dream almost. That feels like the end of the journey, you know what I'm saying? It's like, oh yeah, like what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get to the NFL and be the number one pick. And you're saying it's like, no, no, it's not the end of the journey. That's the beginning of the struggle. That's crazy. You don't even dare to dream more.

Than that A lot of the time for sure. Also in that sense, this goes to like goals. Like certainly I had reached a goal, but also like this brand new problem as you're just starting, right? Not a problem, but literally I'm the number one pick. Now I gotta go deliver that entire concept and expectations. And I had never dealt with expectations in my life before that, especially to this kind of. Again, 20, you're the number one pick. This idea of like, I gotta be Peyton Manning, this is like a childhood hero of mine. I gotta be him.

Who's saying this?

Me. Me.

Are you reading this on blogs? Are you on Twitter? Who is saying you have to be somebody that you may or may not want to be?

A thousand percent it's me. I've instantly in my head. And again, this is all spawned by imposter. Syndrome. Like again, like I said, I felt like I was in over my head. It was this constant fear of like, holy shit, how long till they find out they made a mistake, that this was a bad decision. And yeah, with it though, I idolized these guys that were drafted number one overall that walked out there, Peyton Manning. All of a sudden we have the same agent. Are you kidding me? And then also on top of that, it's the San Francisco 49ers, right? Like it's Joe Montana and Steve Young and very much this fan base knows what good quarterbacking is. And layered in this, Shane, was this level of what I had done in college wouldn't work in the NFL. I needed to be a pro style quarterback. And so this definitely hovered over me. As I do think if I had come in today and been able to play in the shotgun every snap and it was an offense that like I had been playing in college, that transition would have been more familiar for me and easier for me to see myself doing well in it. There was this huge stigma that I had to be able to play from under center. Every single snap I ever took in a workout for an NFL team, I had to prove that I could be under center and take a seven step snap, a seven step drop, and play with a fullback and play with two tight ends and play a quote unquote pro style system. And so that definitely like loomed over me. I had to do that and it weighed on me.

Anyone ever tell you like, alex, we just need you to be you. We don't need you to be.

No, no.

Montana, like literally nobody. No, I'm just trying to like think about what would have been like good leadership to you in that moment. Is there anything someone could have said that would have helped you in that moment? Or was it like, no, like you're the enemy of yourself. Could you have been helped?

I didn't even know what that looked like. I didn't know what an NFL quarterback up close and personal, like how it looked like a week long preparation and going out there in a game. And the two quarterbacks, when I made my first start for the 49ers, the two other QBs in the QB room had a combined one start. I think one start. They were a second year and a third year QB. There was no apprenticeship to learning how to play quarterback at the NFL level. And so like I spent hours and hours by myself in the film room. I mean, I was putting in the time, but I had no idea what I was doing, absolutely none. And I was Just there, lost, completely lost.

I would say that's not atypical for pro sports when you think of the mentorship role and the learning aspect. I think of my experience in college where Coach K would say, hey, look, you got to believe in yourself and you got to do X, Y and Z.

And I believe in you.

You can do it. And the pros and tell me if I'm wrong. Alex, it's like you have the talent. You're here for a reason. Now just do it now. Let's do it. Figure it out. Figure it out. You have the talent and I'm going to put you in the right places to have success. But in terms of the psychological shaping and the self talk, there is very, very little instruction on how to optimize as an athlete. I think athletes today are much more in tune with mental health and maybe psychological optimization through coaches and breathing and all these different techniques. But when we play back in the stone age, when we got drafted, there's none of that. You didn't talk about anxiety, you didn't talk about them. I'm unsure of myself. You just kind of sucked it up. You figured it out and hopefully you had some coaches that could put you in the right place, where that little bit of confidence you gained from performance unlocked your talent. Is that pretty accurate? Alex?

Totally, totally agree. The majority at the professional level is if you can't do it, then we'll just find somebody else that can. And there's not a great leash for development now. The great places do it. The great organizations do this. They have a development plan to go to, the apprenticeship thing. They bring people along. They know it takes time and reps. But I very much felt like I have to do this right now. Like I got to prove that I'm the guy and lead us. And again, in the back of my mind felt like I wasn't enough. So I had to stretch myself and do things that were out of character and be more than me and you dig yourself a hole. My rookie year was a disaster. A disaster. I threw 11 interceptions and one touchdown. Ravi. It was 11 interceptions and one touchdown. I threw the one touchdown.

How many of those were your fault? How many were the receivers fault?

They were all my. I probably should have thrown 20. They were all my fault. Shane. I was terrible. I had no business playing. I should not have been out there.

In hindsight, how many games did you start?

God, I think I started half the season. I started week four, but I got hurt in the middle of it and missed some games doing stupid Stuff and then came back and played the end. The one touchdown, by the way, was week 17, the last week of the season. Oh, wow. Wow.

And at this point, are you in a hole or are you like reading everything that's being written about you?

Yes.

What are you doing?

I'm in a hole for sure. By the end of the season, I'm definitely dug myself a hole. A giant bust hole.

Are you reading the shit people calling you a bust or are you avoiding it?

You cannot avoid it. You cannot. And then I tried to. And then I tried to pretend. And I actually think that made it worse. I would have been much better to just like take it head on and embrace it. I was Rory not doing the media interview after he lips out. Yeah, two three foot putts, stand up at the mic and like face the music. And I would have been better off, but.

Yeah, but you're fucking 20. This is crazy.

Yeah. I tried to present a confident. I got this kind of thing. And that only made things worse. And it just spiraled. Being introspective on this. I was also in a very dysfunctional organization, like at that point. This was the spawn of. After my rookie year, my offensive coordinator left Mike McCarthy, and this was a run of seven. I had seven offensive coordinators in seven years. A recipe for a disaster. It was a lot of self sabotage, though. More than anything for me. Once you dug that hole, it just got worse and worse. It kind of became the point where, like, I couldn't even eat before games. You're just nauseous. The burden of Sundays just loomed over me. It was hard. Like really, really hard. And I wanted so badly to make people like me. All I wanted to was to make the faithful, the 49er faithful, like, like me and love me, you know? And like, you're trying so hard and it's such a shitty motivation, but that's where I was. I was young. And again, this is the first time I've ever struggled, Shane. It's like the first time I've ever dealt with anything even like this. You mentioned it at the core of it, and it's in all sports because of this like, masculinity thing, but especially football. You gotta be a tough football player. For me, I pushed this all down. I boggled it all up. I definitely tried to hide this and pretend like it wasn't happening and that I was tough and strong and could get through this.

Was there any teammate that came and put their arm around you and said, yo, man, you got it. Just keep going? Do you remember Specific players when you were young that took you under their.

Wing and saw that, listen, I had some amazing teammates and coaches. Listen, I got drafted with Frank Gore who's going to go to the hall of Fame here TR shortly. He was like one of the greatest football players of all time in my opinion and incredibly close with him. And he was with me through this, all of these ups and downs and constantly, yeah would put his arm around me and. But like it was hard because like he's crushing it though. You know at this point he's already like all pro, didn't hit home your.

Interceptions probably helped him get more carry. So of course he had his arm around you.

The moment that did though. Shane and this is the moment it goes back to the just live shirt that I wear a lot of and I talk about this in the TED talk is the guy that I like looking back in my entire career that really helped change my life was this guy named Blake Costanzo Shane and he undrafted third string linebacker. I don't know where he went to college. I couldn't tell you. Some tiny little school. And on every NFL team you have these core special teams guys. There's like five of them and they're on punt, punt return, kickoff, kickoff return. And these guys are crazy and they're all backups, but they can all run down the field and make open field tackles and blocks. And you got to be a little nuts to do this. We've seen even in that time span kickoff return has been completely changed because of how dangerous a play it is. And I think to go succeed in that environment, you have to go to a place mentally like you gotta go to the edge. And so Blake, he just had this infectious energy that he played with kind of the crazy man, this guy was a little crazy. We would joke about in the locker room and flying down on kickoff and kicker off return. And he's bouncing around before the opening kickoff out there getting ready to run down the field and take on a 300 pounder. Like this guy was just took himself to a place mentally to that edge. And he had this thing before games and he kind of said it all the time. But like definitely game days, like as you come in Sunday morning to paint a picture like you only play once a week, the anxiety crank just gets turned up as you creep towards Sunday. So like Monday it's at its lowest and Tuesday and then Wednesday, the work week you start and like every day it just mounts and gets cranked up a little bit. It is at its peak. You get all dressed Up. You stay in the hotel the night before, you have your final meetings, get dressed up and you show to the locker room, you know, three, four hours before kickoff. And you get in there and not a lot of people are talking. The energy is thick, the anxiety's thick. Maybe some people are playing some music, but it's palpable. Like it's very real. And he would come in, man, and he would come in with like his five hour energies. He would run around the locker room and he would like get in everybody's face. He would do this. He would like come over to me and be like, shane, are you going to live today? Because I'm going to live. And he would like brag about it. I didn't know what he meant at the time. Like, the first time he said it, I'm like, what the hell is he talking about? It was just so cool to see him embrace the challenge of that Sundays and everything that that represented. And he was taking it on. This is freaking hard. I'm up for it, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm going to be present is really how I learned to be like. And my entire years prior to that, I was not present. I mean, I was in my own head and my head was going a thousand different places with just all of this bad self talk. His actions and then the words that backed it up really had this profound impact on me again. And you want to talk about Glue Guy. This guy doesn't start. Nobody knows this guy's name. And here I am, the starting quarterback and guy changed my career. I stole that. It became this challenge to me then. And I'm like, I've been doing it the other way for several years at this point and it had been terrible results. I could even just feel its effect on me 24 7. And again here I saw Blake doing it a different way, taking it head on. And for me it was like finally this wake up call. Like, I want to try that. Let me go try that way for the rest of my career and life. I still use this. It is a challenge to myself whenever I feel like anxiety kick in and bad self talk. Are you going to live? Can you live? Can you be present? Can you block out all that crap that doesn't matter? Those distractions, whether they be internal or external, be present and live. And you talk about the shame, embracing the suck. You got to take this stuff on if you ever have a chance to move past it. And so Blake's that guy for me, changed my career was hugely Pivotal for me, like, when I got benched for the concussion, like, when I got traded to Kansas City, when we drafted Patrick Mahomes to be my replacement, and certainly helped me when I broke my leg and was sitting in a wheelchair for five months. And they're talking about cutting it off to go back to the beginning. It was those things that I struggled with and learned from early on in my career that really set the stage for me to ever come back and play again.

After my leg, I didn't realize it was as broad, the just live idea. I knew that it was a big deal for you, but I didn't realize it was as impactful, I guess. Dude, like, if you go back, then. So Blake comes. He's teaching you this mentality. You admire the way he's living. You're going to try and emulate it, but I feel like one of the things that. I'm embarrassed to say this, but before you told me, like, I don't think I realized the highs you had in your career before the lows. Where does it go? Okay. All of a sudden, you embrace the. Just live. You start to play, Harbaugh comes. All of a sudden, you're balling. What happens then?

Yeah, I'm glad you said Harbaugh. He was at the exact same time this was happening, the same time that Blake came on the roster. And I'm learning this. Harbaugh gets hired. That wasn't a coincidence that it coincided with, I think, me really an inflection point in my career, that those happened at the same time. And. And Harbaugh's a guy that played 15 years. He played my position. He played quarterback. I grew up in San Diego. Harbaugh played for the San Diego Chargers. I watched him play. And then he coached at Stanford when I was here with the Niners. So it's like, right down the street. I saw his success, and then, wham, we hire him. And Jim also, like, he's a quirky dude, but I think one of his greatest strengths is Jim does not give a shit what anybody thinks about him.

Sweatshirt into the khakis.

Yes. At the press conference with the media, he would wear these pleated khakis and tuck his sweatshirt in. He loved it. He, like, owned it. Wear his glasses on purpose. Even now, he still does some of these same things. Again, he's going to own this. But the way he talked to the team, all about the team. His final words, again, to go back to, like, right before kickoff, you're in the locker room. Again, this environment that I Just stated like it is thick and tense. His final words before every single game, the last words the head coach would say to the team before they ran out and took the field. He would say, play as hard as you can, as fast as you can, for as long as you can, and don't worry. His last two words were, don't worry for me. I'd spent my entire career up to that point as a professional worrying. That's exactly what I did. I worried. I worried about everything. And I felt like he really connected with me. And again, he was confronting it. This idea of it's there, he knows it. He wore the pads for 15 years, he knows guys worry. And here he is telling us to play free. Like I try to tell my kids. And at this point, I've been a professional for six, seven, eight years. At this point, he's still saying these same things.

Jim Harbaugh is also coming from the college ranks. So again we talk about the difference between a college mentality and a pro mentality. It's very subtle, but he brought that personal touch. And you're not going to find too many pro coaches in any sport saying, hey, don't worry. Just like you're not going to find any Fortune 500 CEOs saying to their executive team, hey, don't worry, it'll all work out.

I think this thing, to me, I love the acknowledgment of it. That's cool. Like, look, we all fucking know you're going to get worried. You play once a week, you play 16 games times a year. That's cool that he embraced it. And then it's so funny, you talk about the play free, like in a completely different context. That's something I say all the time to people at work, at home. The only way we're having any chance is if you play. But I also remember, like as a fan, I remember watching him with the quarterback pumping on the shoulder pads, oh.

Right before, like the last day he'd smack you around. I remember the first time he did it. And again you got all these nerves. And as quarterbacks, you don't hit all week, you don't get touched. You got these yellow jerseys on, right? Like you're untouchable. And here you are finally on Sundays, once a week, you're not. You got the ball in your hand and the Sharks are coming, they're coming to get you. I remember I'm getting ready to run out. I got all this pent up anxiety and energy and excitement and him coming over and he just Starts pounding on my shoulder pads and my chest smacking me in the head. It was also this physical deal that it kind of relaxed me. It helped get some of that energy at bay. And that was even kind of a physical manifestation of the same things he was talking about. Get ready to go, man. Embrace this. Yeah. And I think there was also, in that moment, there was this longing. He didn't talk about it a lot, but I knew he was jonesing to strap it up one more time. And that he very much. I could tell. And he didn't talk like this. It wasn't like the old guys. That would come in a lot. We would get these like, you guys are so lucky to play and it's going to be over before you know it and like, tune that out as a player, you know, like, yeah, yeah. But like, Jim, it was like you could feel how much he wanted to one more time, put the shoulder pads and helmet on and go out there. I appreciated that. That made me also think, you know what, this is gonna be over for me maybe real soon. Depending, like on my trajectory at that point. It. I'm gonna be present from now on.

That also, though, dudes like the actions instead of the words. Someone could say the thing. I mean, it's gonna be over before you know it. When this dude's jamming on your shoulder pads trying to hit you and like, you can feel it, that's just like so different.

And this is just a little side thing. And Shane, I don't know if you've ever had these guys. He was not a good luck coach. I was with a lot of coaches that like, again, I go back to the same environment Sunday before kickoff in the locker room, and they'd come around and be like, good luck. And I remember thinking, like, good luck. Aren't you fucking coming out with us? We're in this together, man. Like, what are you telling me? Good luck for, like, call good plays. You got a job to do. Like, your job's not over. There's a lot of these guys that I call them, they're good luck coaches. The great coaches are definitely not that they are in it with you. Yeah, they can't run out there in between the lines. But, like, every bit of them's on board and fighting till the last whistle to do anything they can to help the team. And Jim was not that. You definitely felt his commitment on how on board he was.

Well, Alex, talk about being there when your replacement gets drafted. It's a very strange phenomenon. Doesn't happen a lot in the corporate world, I guess you could say, you know, every now and then, the board may bring in someone, the executive team that writes on the wall to replace you. And in sports, there's much more of a direct correlation. I went through that when I was in Memphis. I got drafted number six by the Memphis Grizzlies in 2006, and two years later, they drafted Drew Gooden, who was great player. He was a power forward. Jerry west, who just passed away, drafted him because he never liked me, and he wanted to replace me with this Drew Gooden guy. And I'm like, gotta be kidding me. He's got a power forward.

I'm a small forward.

And so the dynamic in that first day in the locker room when you know that this guy was brought in to take your spot, is a very primal feeling. So please walk us through draft day and first impressions of this kid named Mahomes with a strong arm on a Texas Tech.

I think a couple things that led up to that that helped me in that situation was one, I'd already dealt with it a little bit. We drafted Colin Kaepernick when I was at the Niners, and he wasn't the 10th overall pick, but he was the second pick in the second round and definitely crazy talented. Also had a little bit of air apparent there, and we were even closer in age. So that was a little more like what you're talking about. I wasn't like the old man at that point, and I think, again, that kind of coincided with Harbaugh and Blake as my teammate and me really getting refocused and again, appreciating the challenge of it and being present. And I had played well, and then I lost that job with the concussion and Cap came in and rolled, went on a historic run, and I found myself getting traded, and I got traded to Kansas City again. It was such a weird coincidence that the Kansas City had the number one pick. They had the same record the year before as I did with the Niners. And it was like the second chance and how cool it was. And I just took that entire are you going to live today? Mindset with me. Like, I'm not going to be distracted anymore, and wham, I'm off and running and, you know, obviously a lot to do with the teammates and coaches. I had, too, going to Pro Bowls and we're going to the playoffs, and, man, this is amazing, right? Like, I feel like I. All that time I put in was paying off. I'm growing. My slope as a company is going up.

Ravi, that's what I was gonna say like I feel like we have this part, you have like ascension.

What?

However bad it is when it's bad in pro sports, like I don't know when you're fucking winning and everyone's like this guy's the man, you're the starting quarterback. I would think that's probably pretty cool.

You passed the dream validation. Finally here it is 10 years later, that same 20 year old kid like validation. And it didn't come from hunting it, embracing the challenge and again all these things we've said but it's there and I'm rolling and I'm playing and I'm just getting better and better every year. And then you said it Shane. They draft this kid, number 10 overall, they move up. I knew they loved him. They'd been talking about him for a couple years. I had a great relationship with the GM and assistant GM and the quarterback room and they would always pop in the QB room and be like hey, what do you think of this guy? And I always asked him too like I love college football. So like I'd always ask him hey is there anybody coming out of Utah or like I'd ask him about this quarterback. And so I knew they loved Patrick and I knew there was a chance we were going to take him. And that's the one thing I think that Andy did a great job of in a difficult situation is he communicated. I wasn't surprised it was not the Kirk cousins having no idea they were going to draft Michael Penix. I knew there was a great chance that we were drafting him and so. And then we did. And I think a couple things kicked in right there. Shane is one. I was determined to not be distracted again any longer. Again this was still very fresh in my mind. I'm not going to be looking over my shoulder as I go take the field anytime. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to be locked in on the details and hyper focused. And then the other thing, there was a ton of empathy for me, for Patrick. I had been the top pick and I remember how miserable that rookie year was by myself in the film room having no idea what I was doing. No one helped to show me how to look at third down tapes or blitz reels or how to change protections at the line or how to deal with prima donna receivers. All these things like I had none of it. I took me a long time and a lot of mistakes to ever learn. And so there was this empathy that Patrick didn't pick this situation. I didn't pick this situation and that his path and my path were not contradictory. As much as the media wanted to make that like me reaching my potential had nothing to do with the player Patrick was going to become. And I knew that again, if I was going to be distracted by it, I wouldn't become the best player I could be or teammate. And I was determined to be down that path. And so that was at the start of it. And then I think what really makes it work is respect between him and I. Like that's the only way that room works. There's just this mutual respect. Give respect, you get respect. And Patrick and I hit it off. As weird as it is to say that we spent so much time together when you're in the QB room and again during the season once training camp starts, like I'm spending more time with him than I am with my wife and kids for six months. That's what it looks like. And you're eating meals together and training together and you're practicing together and you're watching film again, like it just is a grind. And the way the QB room worked in Kansas City and the tone was set like this again from Andy, I didn't know it at the time, but Andy's directive to Patrick was everywhere Alex goes, you go. That's your job. Whatever he does, you do. That was the motto. We had the QB room text chain and like it was constantly like, what time we starting tomorrow? What time we going in? Like we never did anything by ourselves. And you really built a very cool relationship and leaned on each other and it was to the point because you would always love it in the middle of the season on a Thursday night. Say we just lost the game and we're putting in third down plays and I'm trying to pick up this blitz. Like there could be these minute things where I want opinion, I want in a second opinion. Hey, coach is telling me this, he leaves the room and I'm like, hey Patrick, what do you really think about this? What if I did this instead? It's so nice to have that sounding board sometimes of a guy that knows what it's like to have been in that pocket when the bullets are flying. Can give you some feedback and the great places build those kind of environments. And Kansas City was like that and Patrick was like that with me.

Alex, do you think that a great dude, you had the empathy, you'd felt it and you were gonna not be a dick to Patrick. You were gonna help him. But Andy helped that by communicating with you and all that stuff. Do you think that he could have done that with somebody who didn't have your personality, too? Like, would he have adjusted his style and still been able to make that successful?

I think he would have. I think he would have adapted. Andy's a strong leader, and I think one of his biggest strengths is dealing with personalities, different personalities, not turning molehills into mountains. I think he does a great job of just squashing all that stuff. So I think he would have worked it out. I do think, though, this kind of goes back to, I think, how do you build teams and talent? I do think glue guys, team players. That's the core of teams. And, like, the first thing Andy did the first year in Kansas City was totally revamp all of that. You've got to build the core of your culture. And we had built it for five years, and I think at that point he definitely, obviously knew who I was. So this was very planned. He was very purposeful by it, and it's brilliant. Again, hindsight is brilliant. How many teams just flip a coin and draft a QB and don't have a plan? Andy had a plan, and I was a part of that. And in the middle of it, sometimes it's tough to see. But I mean, if you're a football fan and you have to admire that, like, how fluid that transition was, and it's paid off. I mean, three rings later, it's obviously more than paid off.

Did you take your own advice and did you play free or. Or did you start looking over your shoulder again and worry about the expectations, and all of a sudden you're a Pro bowl quarterback and you're protecting something? Did your mentality change at all?

I think a couple things. One, it was very apparent as the year went on that Patrick was really good and also very professional. Like, I think the thing that gets lost in his amazing playmaking is the grind. Patrick's super smart, crazy, hardworking, and he wins there just as much as he does doing the crazy sidearm. No look, throws, probably more, I should say. So that was there. I was again determined that I wasn't going to be distracted. I think I'd hardened myself enough with my habits that I was ready for that. And I ended up having my career year without a doubt. I mean, I was in the MVP conversation till the end of the season. Didn't get it, but absolutely had my career year without a doubt. We ended up losing in the playoffs, which surmises my time in Kansas City, and that was it. I knew I was going to. I Was on the trading block.

You got traded the year after the career year.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

It has to do with contracts where my contract was. They didn't want to let me hit for agency. So it's like, trade you with a year left versus if they would have waited another year, I probably wouldn't have signed an extension. And then you're. Then you're not getting any value. And that's another masterpiece of Andy Reid, right? Like, how many times has he traded guys for picks? And I think only reinforced that entire year in experience. Although, like, we lost in the Pl, but whatever. Like, it only reinforced all of these beliefs that I had accumulated. How to attack, I think hard things at that point. Adversity, again for me, attention to details, controlling what you can control, like, eliminating distractions, your own included. Those are all things. Are you going to live? Like, became my mantra for sure at that point. I was such a believer in all that stuff. And then I get traded the second time to Washington. That, no, it was like, man, let's go. Just had my career year, year 12. Like, I'm only getting better still. I felt like I could have played 12 more years at that point. I'd been really lucky physically. Let's go. I was only emboldened, I think.

And how old are you when you got traded to Washington?

God, I just played 12 years, so.

I was 32 at this point. You're married?

Yeah, married. Kids? All three kids.

The reason I bring this up is, like, to me, one of the things I worry about a lot is, is, like, you sometimes think you kind of, like, had your struggles. Now you're on the other side of them, and you're like a finished product. And so to me, I'm kind of envisioning you of, like, look, I've learned my lessons. I'm 32. I'm married. I'm a father. I got this. Like, I'm good. And so the reason I bring that up is, like, then the fucking leg happens. You already did the work. You already had the lessons. Is that what it felt like?

Absolutely. That was my mindset at that point. I had learned so much in my 12 years. I knew what it looked like at that point, and I knew how to get there. And I had really, I think, also taken a lot of pride in my style. I had stopped trying to be other people along that way. I was very comfortable in how I could go win football games and play quarterback and had kind of taken that back on. And that was part of the thing like, when you get traded, you don't have a lot of control where you get traded. But both places, I was lucky enough that they let me have a little input. And even one of the things with Washington is I knew from the outside there was some dysfunction, ownership down. I knew that, but like a little bit. That attitude, you're saying, I kind of wanted it. I'm like, I think I can quiet the noise. I think I can go there. It was a young, talented team, and I thought, like, I could be the difference. And I firmly believed that. I wanted that to happen. That was a destination, that for sure. I was pumped when that all worked out because I thought, like, I could be the difference maker and felt like I was for 10 weeks. Robbie. We were two games up in the division. I felt like I had had a positive impact on that locker room. It was a young, like, I'm a.

Glue guy, but I'm a leader. I'm fucking doing it.

And I was like, again, here I am going into year 13. You're a dinosaur at that point in an NFL locker room. I'd been to playoff games and Pro Bowls and stuff. None of those guys had ever done anything like that. And so really felt like I could help a culture change. And again, felt like we were doing it for 10 weeks. We were kicking ass. Everything was a lock, we were rolling. And then J.J. watt, man, broke my leg. To your point, I had been through all these things, hard things. I'd been through them. I was hardened and resilient. And then I was not prepared for that at all. The journey that kicked me down, compound fracture of my leg, tib fib, emergency surgery that night, infection sets in. Flesh eating bacteria on my leg. I'm minutes, hours from them cutting off my leg.

I want to hear the entire story because the perfect storm and sort of the butterfly effect of every little thing that happens in a football play. Something you spend hours on every single week, and if one component is off, it's catastrophe. And basketball a little bit different. Only 45 guys, and it's a game of errors, and you're constantly covering them up. So if one guy messes up, you kind of expect it. But in football, everything is such a coordinated ballet between blocking and passing and tackling and space. Someone's off by a foot. Disastrous strike. So walk us through that week when he told us a story about everybody who's involved on that fateful day.

Yeah, you said it. And I think you actually really did a great job summarizing what offensive football is it is a ballet. It is coordination and timing. And if 11 guys aren't working in concert, like, it doesn't happen defensively is very different if Aaron Donald's playing D tackle and just wrecks the play. If you're the left corner, you could have blown it. It doesn't matter because, like, you cover up for each other. Like, on offense, everybody could be doing their job. And if, like, one guy fucks up, the whole play is a disaster. Like, it very much takes all 11 coordinated effort. And yeah, like, so we're playing the Texans. And I'll never forget it. That whole week, they had, like, a really exotic blitz packages. This was my bread and butter. I felt like I can snuff this out. Like, I can use my cadence. I'm at home. I can get them to show it. And I'll never forget, you go over these protection meetings during the week, and I remember them. They presented this, they tried to present. Like, they're coming from the left. Let me just put it very elementary. The way they're lined up, they're trying to show you that it's coming to the left, but very much at the snap, it's going to spin, and they're actually coming from the right. And I remember. So they put all their big guys over there to the left to kind of show this. And I remember, like, there were a bunch of little tells that gave it away, though. And all week I'm like, I'm not going to slide the line to those guys. I know it's coming the other way, so I'm going to protect it. I know it. And all week the coaches fought me, like, no, no, no, this is just the way we want to do it because it's for everybody else. Like, it just makes it easy that every time the bigs are over there, the O line's just going to go, and then the running back's going to scan and make this right. Just wanted to keep it very simple.

What do you mean, keep it simple? What are you talking about?

Yeah, and I'm like, I'm going along with it. It's one of those things I really wish I obviously would have pushed back on, you know, But I didn't. I'm like, fine. And the downside of this is you don't get your running back out. It's really like the ultimate. Your running back then gets used up on the protection and you lose your fifth receiver. And I was like, fine. It was like one play, one protection that I didn't push back on. And I Was like, fuck it, fine. And I did it. And so sure enough, third down, I can remember it. I remember like in my head, in this moment as I come up, they did it. They're showing it, like, because most defenses, they'll show a blitz and then like, they give it a few weeks off and then you'll see it again a couple weeks later. And like, that's how they try to, like have variants. And so I knew it. And I'm like, boom, there it is. They showed all these guys over to the left. I know, I freaking know. It's coming over here on the other side though, and like, slowed down for me, it felt like slow motion that I had this whole little internal conversation of like, which way am I going to do it here? And I was like, fine. I listened to the coaches, I turned the line to the left, to the big fellas. I know the slot, the nickel is coming off the edge to the right. And then also like thrust in this chain is you're also trying to block J.J. watt, the three time defensive player of the year. And so he breaks through. And wouldn't you know it, we missed the guy coming off the slot to the right. And so you kind of have these two free players. And you know, as a quarterback, it's all situational awareness. That's how you learn to play. Like, you learn to compartmentalize all these different situations that encompass one game and a season. And we were across the 50, I think at that point, kind of midfield though, and I remember just conceding in my head like, oh, they got me. And protecting the football, that was my job in that moment. It's third down, they got us protecting the football and kind of getting in to absorb a hit. And I've taken a thousand worse hits in my career. And for some reason in that one, leg goes fuzzy. I hold onto the ball. But it was a feeling I'd never felt before in my leg. Can remember kind of happening together, the yells of teammates. And then as I kind of rolled over and looked at my leg, it bending where it shouldn't. A very alarming thought. I fucking broke my leg. There was no doubt about it. I knew I broke my leg. But then I, you know, kind of mixed emotions. Like, it didn't hurt in that moment. And again, here I was 13 years into a career. Football is a violent game. Countless teammates have broken bones. It's just a part of football. I, for whatever reason, had never broken a bone in my life to that point, never. And I remember thinking, well, I broke My leg, it's broken. And I remember the distinct feeling of we were far enough into the season that like the season's probably over for me but we got the best doctors in the world, the best care in the world. And I distinctly remember having this like very naive thought, they'll put me back together whatever they have to do and I should be back by spring ball. This was November 18th. It's a day that's obviously changed my life. And I remember thinking like oh, by March I'll be fully back enrolling and I'll be good to go for OTAs. That was my thought process in that moment. And doctors running out and I remember telling them like it's broken. They're trying to like do their own discovery. And I'm like no, no, no, no, it's broken, that's what it is.

It's fucking sticking out of your skin.

It was on the backside like you couldn't see it. We didn't discover that till later but yeah, then finally air cast it on and carted off the field and then pain setting in and jump in the ambulance and fucking sent off to the. So I had emergency surgery that night because we discovered the bone had broke the skin. So emergency surgery that night and I woke up the next day, Shane to like great news. Surgery had gone really, really well. They put three plates in my leg and like 32 screws and everything looked really well aligned and I needed to stay a couple days for observation and like pass my occupational therapy pt. Little things they make you do. You have to show you can get around on crutches before they let you go. And then I'd be home, the biggest hurdle was done and start the road to recovery. I luckily never made it out of the hospital. Went into septic shock two days later right before I was supposed to get discharged and infection had set in into my leg. It had turned into what's called necrotizing fasciitis, which is like a fancy word for flesh eating bacteria. And it was starting to eat at my leg and once this sets in it spreads really quickly and it's dead tissue, it's not coming back. And so I was rushed into emergency surgery and I went in like two straight weeks of surgeries essentially from there on of they call them debridements and it's essentially they just amputating part of your leg every time they go in. So they would cut out the infected tissue and then the next day I'd go in and they would cut out more and then they would Cut out more and cut out more. And this went on for about two weeks finally till they got it under control. And then that whole time when you're going under anesthesia every single day, you don't ever regain like full consciousness. So I don't have. This is all like a very much a fog for me. And touch and go at that point as far as like cutting my leg off and getting this thing under control and getting me on the right antibiotics finally amazing save by the doctors to like get it all out and get the infection under control. And I wake up two weeks later. For me, this all happens like a flash like these two weeks, like I wake up two weeks later, kind of. My last memory was surgery went well and I'm going to be totally good to go. And then flash forward two weeks. I'm waking up now with a huge team of doctors in front of me in the hospital room and they're telling me what had happened. Half my leg is already gone. I have this severe broken leg still, obviously, and most doctors thinking amputation is probably the best thing at that point at my knee going to amputate and that'd be the best thing for me. And obviously again you think you're prepared for things. Like I was playing a freaking game and then all of a sudden you wake up and they're talking about cutting your leg off. You get punched in the face like that. Like, how did we even get here? Like, I, it took me so long to even digest that and understand it and didn't want to believe it. Obviously sent me down the path of like a two year rehab, a fight to keep my leg and then to frigging try to fucking play football again.

God, Jesus Christ, Shane. You know, one thing I told Alex one time. I have trouble playing Madden with the kids playing quarterback because there's too much going on. I can't figure out where the fucking receivers are. I can't like check the coverage. And it's a fucking video game. I'm like a relatively smart guy and like I can't process it quick enough. They sack me every time and I'm just sitting there like, this dude's doing this in real life with your like life on the line. It is a genuinely insane thing that quarterbacks do. All the things you just went through. Like, yeah, they're showing this, they're gonna do this. And then I have to check all these reads. It is just a ridiculous position. But anyway, so Alex, so you wake up, the doctor's in front of you, okay? And they've been talking to your family, They've been talking to other people that love you. Did you have a moment? You said you're saving. You're like, did you have a moment? First of, just like, maybe I should let him cut it off.

Oh, yes. When I wake up, I probably didn't do a good job painting this picture. Like, when I woke up two weeks later, I was at the precipice of. I was a fork in the road. I had the decision. The majority of the doctors in the room, kind of advocating for amputation probably is the best bet. It was the cleanest outcome for me and the quality of the rest of my life. One doctor in the room, his name is Vanit Meehan, was crazy enough and confident enough that he said, I think I can save your leg. And this is how I'm going to do it. I'm going to take your own body parts from your healthy part of your body, from your back, from your left leg, and I'm going to move them down over. I'm going to Frankenstein your own body, and I'm going to move them down onto your lower right leg in hopes that we can save this. And it's going to be multiple, multiple surgeries. And there's no guarantee it takes because actually we could move these muscles down and they actually die. And then we're going to try it again. Then we'll try a different muscle or something. You're going to have to wear this cage on your leg and then we're going to skin graph over it if it takes. And this is all in hopes to just save your leg. And you're not getting any ability back, by the way. So, like, I had lost lots of muscle and tendons and nerves. This wasn't to get any of that back. This is literally like just a giant meat shingard that they're gonna transfer down over the top of this broken bone in hopes that it can help heal it. Broken bones don't heal without blood supply. You need all this tissue over it to bring blood so that this can heal. The prognosis was like, you're not gonna be able to use your leg. You're just gonna keep it. And we're gonna do all these surgeries to do that. And no doubt about it, something in his confidence. I remember in that moment, and I kind of had to choose pretty quickly. This wasn't something I got to, like, deliberate on for a month. It's like, make the decision. And I'm still like, just trying to, like, digest obviously how we Even got here. How did I get here? You know, he's one of these people, like, obviously, like, yeah, that moment, he changed my life. He was in the room, he was on call. Like, he came in and I went with his route.

Shout out to the Indian doctors. Save the fucking day. Remember Shane, your original name for this podcast? Yes, Indians are shining right now.

Well, Robert, there's 2 billion Indians, so there's a good chance it probably was an Indian guy that was a doctor.

Hey, man. Hey.

Listen, all I'm just saying beneath Mahin, okay? Saving the day, just letting you know.

I love my Hindu brothers. I love them.

I love them.

Okay, well, Alex is the mindset right now. Just. Yeah, okay, let's do it. I'm gonna play. This is a possibility. I mean, like, yeah, no, no, no.

I'm not there. I'm not there.

You're thinking about, like, can I play with my kids? Can I take a walk with my wife? Real life shit that really matters. Not stupid football.

Yeah. You hit it right on the head. I am like, yeah, football. At this point, I'm also having a giant pity party. I cannot get past what the rest of my life is going to look like. And you know this, Shane. Like, I was an old guy in the locker room at that point. You put off a lot when you're playing, and I never thought I'd play that long. And so you just put things off. Like, I'd had kids and, like, you just put things off. And I'm like, we'll do that later. We got the rest of our life to go do that stuff. And then all of a sudden, this happened and I'm like. I distinctly remember just sitting there. It was in the hospital room for over a month. And when I got discharged, I had this giant fucking steel cage bolted to my leg, from my foot to my upper thigh. Like, I can't bend my knee. And I am stuck in a wheelchair for months and months and months. Huge unknown. They're still talking about, like, amputation is not fully off the table at this point. And I, like, cannot get past exactly what you're saying, Shane. Like, I will never be able to chase my kids around ever again. I'll never be able to ride a bike. All these moments as my kids get older, my boys, I'll never be able to go do these things with them. I'll never be able to go on a walk with my wife. The most simplest, purest things in life, they're gone again. I'm in my own head. They're not Coming back. And I cannot stop just replaying these images of like, these things I took for granted are never coming back and just consumed in them. So I'm like kind of just looking in the rearview mirror, if that makes sense. The rearview mirror of my life and all these things I'll never be able to do again. And a huge pity party and football did this to me.

So where do you get the resilience? Someone hearing your story for the first time, like, people were like, holy crap. Like, I couldn't do that. Where did you dig deep? Where did you find the strength to not only survive, keep your leg, but like thrive? This is like an insane story.

This is insane. This is what I really enjoy, like, talking about and being open about this. Nobody does crazy, audacious things by themselves. That is a fallacy. That is a Disney story. That is not true. And I really enjoy being open about. I couldn't have been in a worse place mentally for four months, five months again, I'm stuck in a wheelchair. My wife had to outfit the entire house with the ramps because I'm in a wheelchair. I can only go on the first floor. And there's really only two places in the house. I can either be it's on my bed or it's this spot on the couch. And I can't even be left alone. I got a picc line that goes to my heart because I have to do antibiotic drips every single day to still keep this crazy infection under control. My wife can't even leave me alone. I'll never forget. It was this big step. My oldest son at that point was like 7, 8 years old. And again, this giant metal cage I had on was super heavy on my right leg. And they had taken one of my quad muscles from my left leg down. And so my left leg's weakened. I couldn't go to the bathroom by myself. I needed help to go to the bathroom. And I'll never forget when my wife felt comfortable enough that like, my seven year old son had to help me lift up this metal cage that's bleeding. Like, I got screws and pins that are open wounds. They're bleeding and oozing. It's disgusting. He's strong enough to lift it up because he needs to do this so that I can like go to the bathroom. And I'll never forget when like that moment happened because my wife could leave me with him for like short little runs. She could go run errands. And my oldest son, who's seven, I was a liability. Do you Know what I'm saying? Like, you went from like the dad, the provider of your house. These are my kids. Like all of a sudden I'm helpless. And what a big moment that was that my son could help me go to the bathroom so that my wife could go like run errands and leave him alone with me. And I don't know what that felt like for him, dad stuck in a wheelchair. I was completely worthless when I'm getting out. I was like a giant suck on the household. Just 24, seven maintenance. And I kind of wallowed in that for a long time. Did just wallowing in that. It coincided with winter in D.C. which was like crappy weather. I'm just sitting there, just shitty attitude, staring outside at like snow and sleet and rain. Couldn't take part in my kid's life. So my kids life goes on. They have their activities in school and I can't take part in any of it because I can't go anywhere. I'm stuck. My wife had to rent a van, a wheelchair accessible van, and like I could go either to the doctor or just stay at the house. Like that was it. And so in that moment, I got what was called my doctor, the team doctor for Washington. I didn't know it at the time, but had applied for this thing called the Secretary of Defense designation. And this is something for civilians who are deemed to have what's called a war like injury. And if they get granted this, they get access to military medical care. The unique thing there was if you tear your ACL or like your Achilles that happened, there is a roadmap of all the people that have done it before you and hopefully progress that they've made. And then you follow the latest, the last great success story you do, they have this roadmap and you follow it and hopefully you add to that. Well, like there were no athletes that had gone through anything even close to this. There was nobody for me to look to. Like, no, like seeds of hope. Hey, look at this person. And I didn't know it at the time, but the closest thing actually, believe it or not, was the military. And through like the last 30 years in the Middle east and like roadside bombs and IEDs and loads of our servicemen and women came back with lower leg injuries. And as crazy as it is, mine at that point roughly resembled it. I had this crazy broken leg. I had a bunch of tissue damage from them dissecting my leg and removing this and all these limb salvage procedures to save it. And that was kind of actually what happened. To a lot of them that had come back. And some of these soldiers were crazy enough to go back to service and had found a way through rehab and bracing that they had gone back. Some of these Rangers and Navy seals had gone back to service and functioned at a high level. And so that was like the closest thing for me. And I'll never forget, long story short, I get granted this Secretary of Defense designation, and it's literally signed off by the Secretary of Defense. And so I get granted access to military medical care. And there is this center in San Antonio. It's called the center for the Intrepid, and it's part of the Brooks Army Hospital center down there. It doesn't matter what branch of the military you're in, if you have a limb injury, like a severe limb injury, this is where you go. It's one place it could be anywhere in the world. Again, I don't care what branch of the military you're in, if you have a severe limb injury, you go here for rehab. And I got granted access. And again, long story short, if that hadn't happened, I never would have uttered the words, I want to play football again, and never would have gone down this journey. And my life would look a lot different right now is the truth. And that team, the military team that I got to kind of co op for a little while, changed my life.

What was it like when you were there? You're around a bunch of military people, you're not around a bunch of football players. How long did it take for you to go from having the pity party to something else?

So I couldn't travel when I was in the wheelchair to go down there ever the metal cage that I had in my leg. So again, it's running from my upper thigh to my foot. So my whole right leg's just locked out with this giant metal cage bolted into the bone. And I finally got to a point with the surgeries and the limb salvage that they got to shrink it. They put a smaller one on me that went from just below my knee down to my foot. So smaller but still this metal cage. And that meant that I could get out of the wheelchair so I could get to crutches. And I couldn't still put my foot down. I'm not weight bearing. Still some unknowns. At least I could get vertical. I could be upright on crutches. I was kind of somewhat mobile at this point. For the first time. Got to take my first trip to San Antonio. This is like five months into my rehab at this point. Rehab Is sitting around in a wheelchair. And again, so to give you a picture of where I was at, my leg is grotesque. It is the most mutilated, mangled looking thing you have ever seen. It is the size of a tree trunk. The skin grafts over it, the donor sites like it is unrecognizable. It doesn't look like a leg. And again, I got this cage bolted to it. So I kept it wrapped all the time. And my wife would do you have to do these pin cleanings and screw cleanings all the time on it? My wife would do that at home every few days. She saw it in my kids kind of a little bit when they were around, but it scared them. And then when I went to the doctor, they would unwrap it. And other than that, I kept it wrapped. I was very much ashamed of it. It was ugly and gross and it kind of represented all the things I'll never be able to do again, all the things I lost. It was basically like this good for nothing leg that for some reason I'd been fighting to keep. And so I get down to the military and one of the things, like, certainly like, I'm very humbled to be down there. They literally have sacrificed life and limb protecting us. And I was playing a stupid game and got unlucky with this infection. So I don't really feel like I belong to one of the philosophies, the cool philosophies of the center for the intrepid is most physical therapy clinics. When you go to them, you check in at the front office, your physical therapist meets you and escorts you back to a private room. And you do your physical therapy in private for 45 minutes. And then you're escorted out and you leave. It's very one to one thing. And so I'd been doing a little bit of that prior to going down there. Like in the wheelchair, I had done a little bit of this. And you get down there and that is not the philosophy of the military. They believe in this thing called group suck. The belief that if you're going through hard stuff, it's better to do it together. And so they just have this giant open room where everybody does their rehab together. Huge, big open space and it's this mixed mash of rehab tables and lifting equipment and rehab stuff, and everybody's doing it together. And I get down there again and I'm ashamed of my leg. I'm hiding behind bandages. I think my future sucks. I get down there and let me tell you this, nobody's hiding behind their bandages. You're in this huge group and, man, the scars are out in the open. I thought I had it bad. You get down there, man, there's double amputees, triple amputees, horrible burn victims. There's a ton of people with the same contraption I have on my leg, that cage. They're also there. It's the first time I've ever seen another person wearing one. And so there was this connection, I think, again, this empathy of, like, we're all going through bad stuff. But it even put into perspective mine, like, how lucky I was actually to still have what I had very much. There were a bunch of amputees down there kicking ass and not moping about. And that example was incredibly powerful for me to see people moving ahead with their life. One soldier in particular, who was definitely past me, like, they brought him in. He had been two years ahead of me. So it had really gone through something very similar and recovered. And he lived in San Antonio at the time. And he had come in and he's wearing shorts and flip flops. I'll never forget it. And I grew up in San Diego. Again, shorts and flip flops, that speaks to me. And his leg is crazy looking. And I remember asking him, like, how the fuck are you wearing shorts and flip flops? Like, how do you get there? You're just cruising around life with that leg out like that. Which is kind of a shitty thing to ask in hindsight, you know, but it's real. He was very cool. Like, I would never forget. He was like, man, I'm telling you, there's going to come a time when you're proud of your leg and everything that it represents. And I remember for me, again, a distinct moment of like, how do I get there? That Blake Costanza moment. Like, I'm not even close to that. I'm ashamed of my leg. I'm embarrassed by it. And it represents all the other stuff. And it was a really cool example of a seed of hope again, of what maybe did lay ahead for me. And one of the fucking craziest moments also embedded in this again. It's been like five months. I have not touched a football since my injury. I have this negative attitude towards it. Again, it did this to me. And so I'm going down to the military center. And meanwhile, too, I have two young boys who love football. And I go down there. This is all on the first day. It was like, there's this overwhelming experience for me. I'm doing my first PT session and Johnny Owens, the PT the longtime PT down there has me get down on my left knee. So my good leg again. I still can't be weight bearing on my right leg. So he has me get down on one knee. He fucking walks out. He goes behind the counter, the PT counter. And again I'm in this big open room, shit going on everywhere. He brings out this football and he throws it to me. And one of the first things I do in rehab is play catch. And the last thing I'm ever expecting to see at a military center was a football. And it was something done very intentionally by him, very intentionally. This was all planned. And so my first exercise was to sit there on my left knee and I played catch. And I'll never forget how amazing that was. This aha moment again that like, oh, shit, I can still play catch. I can still play catch with my boys. Like, they love playing catch with their dad. It's something that I did with my dad and I'll never forget. Like, playing catch, like such a simple thing. I can still do this and it kind of this, well, what else can I go do in the center for the Intrepid and the people down there? It changed my life. And later that day, Shane is the first time I ever said out loud, you know what? I want to see if I can play football again. And they very much pushed me towards that. They were the only place in the world that was like, hey, we think you can go do more than you than everybody else is saying, there's more ahead of you and we think we can help you go achieve it. And I was scared shitless when I said it because also I had agreed for some reason to document this journey, which is very unlike me. I feel like I'm a pretty private person. And for some reason I'd been talked to. Like, I agreed to this. So there's cameras there. This is documented. I'm saying this dumbass statement. They're talking about cutting off my leg potentially still. And I'm like, hey, I want to play football again. Like, this sounds fucking stupid. I didn't care, though. And I think in that moment, that's also, for me, it was getting to a place where I didn't care if I failed. In fact, I kind of thought it was probable, but, like, that wasn't the point. The point was for me to chase down as much ability as I had left. I want to be the best dad I can be, and I want to be the best husband I can be. And I want to be the best me that I can be. Going forward, this is the way to it. It's getting to this side of the coin, like attacking struggle again and embracing it. And I very much thought I would fail. I never thought I would actually, like, play football again when I uttered those words. But again, getting to the point where, like, I really didn't care. Fear wasn't going to consume me again like it had at times past. So if all this hadn't happened, I never would have actually ultimately ever made it back.

You catch yourself sometimes saying, I can't believe that happened. From that day to where you are now, obviously you're a person that has amazing gratitude and expresses it and amazing vulnerability to be able to share that most people wouldn't be able to articulate just like that. But it almost seems like a movie. It almost seems like a movie.

What are you talking about? If it happened in the movie, you wouldn't believe it. You know what I'm saying, Shane? It's like too much to be in the movie because you'd be like, no, it's too much.

I feel like the same way. Feel like a little bit, even looking back, like, I can't believe I actually ended up there. I think for me, like, the one defining thing that I feel like ends this well. Two stories. So fast forward, Covid hits. I'm going through my rehab. I'm just like, plugging along. I keep thinking, I'm going to hit a wall. The road's going to end for me, the rehab road, and that's fine. I want to find out where that wall is, the final one. I can't bust through. And so I'm just on this mission. I set this goal of, like, I want to chase this. I want to see if I can do this. And the weird thing is, I would do my rehab sessions with a football in my hand. It changed my complete attitude. Just even holding one, I would. It could be unrelated to football, but if I had it in my hand, it, like, gave me this energy and purpose. And the next two years, that's what I did. I would do rehab. I had football involved in some way, and I would just, like, chase this. And I didn't go to rehab. Like, when I couldn't even stand on my leg, I didn't go like, hey, I'm gonna play quarterback today. Like, I'm like, no, I gotta be able to stand on my leg. Objective number one, the first step, like, I gotta be able to weight, bear head down and charge that, like, that singular thing, this very small, little attainable goal. And it was Just like, I gotta be able to put my weight down and stand on my leg. What do I need to do to get there? And PTs and doctors helping me do that. You'd get there and it was just this amazing feeling, like, when you would do it for sure. Like a great little celebration. And then it was like, all right, what's next? And it was like, okay, well, I gotta be able to weight change. I gotta be able to take like, literally a baby step. How do I do this? Almost like the analogy. Like, you don't have to be able to see out of the woods. You just have to be able to see your next step kind of thing. And, like, that's all I did. Head down, just one step to the next. And crazy lucky that, like, the walls just kept getting broken down. Came and they would go. And really fortunate in that regard. And so fast forward, Covid hits, world shuts down. I'm doing a lot of these final stages. I get to the point I have a rod put in my leg. I'd have another surgery, couple surgeries to get a rod put in my leg once I graduated out of the metal cage. And I'm starting to do more advanced things, like trying to freaking run again and jump again. And so the world shuts down. There are no PT clinics. I can't go do this in office anymore with professionals. But I'm kind of to a point where I'm actually kind of trying to see if I could play QB again. So I've, like, got cleats on and I'm finding every friend, kid, high school kid I can find to come run routes because it's like, I want to see if I can do this. I have my wife playing defensive end, rushing, rushing after me to, like, see if I can fucking move and defend myself. And just like, I'm having fun with this. The world is shut down. And this is also one of those things. Like, I was incredibly lucky. Like, my injury happened right before COVID Covid hit and it sucked. Tragic. And like, it was an adjustment for all of us, but, like, I had just spent two years in isolation. Pretty much that didn't seem that bad. Like, I hear I'm at a park, I get to be outside moving around. Like, I was very much prepared for that. Hardened. And I'm having a blast doing this, seeing if I can do this. The entire time I haven't said this, I get regular X rays and scans, and I have a spot in my leg that's called a non union, which means it's still Broken. I have a break in the middle of my leg that has not healed. I have the metal rod in there at this point and we're hoping this thing heals up, but it has not healed. And there's definitely cases before me. I know this. People's legs don't ever heal. So this could be like a looming chronic problem for me. Every time I'd had scans, it was like bad news. You still have this non union. We don't know if it's getting better. Is there still disease in there? Is it dead? Uncertainty? That definitely loomed. And so then during COVID again, I go this long period of no more scans. You're not going in for scans. And so it was the longest chunk of time that I had gone without imaging done in my leg. And this all coincides with getting towards the fall here of 2020. So we don't even know if there's going to be a football season. There's a lot of turbulence. Like, what the fuck's going to even happen? What's that going to look like? Well, I have like my own turbulence again. I'm also gaining a little confidence by the way that like I can still throw. I can still drop back and throw. I've got permanent drop foot. I've got a huge loss of strength and ability in my right leg. I have enough. It looks different, but like I can throw to these neighborhood kids. I wonder if I can throw to an NFL receiver still. And I'm starting to like wonder. And I go back. So this is on the eve. This is like July, late July, right before training camp. And training camp may or may not happen, right? This went down to the wire with the NFL and like testing policy and protocols. And I get imaging done for the first time. And now this has been eight months, seven months since I've had imaging done. And the last time I did it, again, not good news. And so of all this imaging done back in DC and all my doctors there confer with all the doctors down in San Antonio, all the military docs, and they like powwow on my imaging because it's kind of like put up or shut up time. This is it or not. My wife had even kind of said that to me, like, this is your shot or not? And I'm expecting bad news. My lead doctor, my lead orthopedist in D.C. is like, hey, why don't you come over my house, you and Elizabeth, and we'll talk about what we discovered. And I'm like, fuck, this is not good news. We had grown Very personal. Like, you know, it'd been a two year relationship at this point, but like I haven't been over his house. Like I'm like, this is not good. So I'm definitely like preparing myself for not good news. And we go over there, it was really sweet. We opened a bottle of tequila, poured us all drinks. All my doctors are there too, like the DC docs and they're all in agreement with the military docs that I've healed enough. I still have a non union, but it looks like it's getting better. I have enough healing around it with the rod. I'm good to go. And I just have this like stupid shit eating grin on my face. This is amazing news. And I can't stop peppering them with questions because all these things that I thought I'd never be able to do again. I'm like, so like I can go like hiking and they're like, yeah. And I'm like, I can go mountain biking, rock climbing, I could go skiing, I can go snowboarding. And they're like, yes, yes, yes. I'm like coming up with stupid and you're like, yeah. And then it hits me in that moment, oh, they're gonna tell me I can play football. There was a lot of comfort I took in the two years prior to that when I would say this, I want to play football again. Like there were a lot of patronizing people that like kind of patted me on the back and were like, hey, that's good, that's really great. You go try that. And I think again, like I never actually thought it would happen. And then all of a sudden here I thought it was a million miles away, like steps of those steps I talked about. Like now all of a sudden it was like, oh shit, it's the next step. It's right in front of me. And my stomach drops in that moment. I'll never forget sitting on their back patio when I got the news. My stomach drops and anxiety kicks in and self doubt. And I've just received this amazing news and I'm like, oh no. Yeah, like, oh, I'm scared to death. I'm going to make a fool out of myself. My leg's going to break again. It's not going to hold up. What if they're wrong? What if I look stupid? Just received this amazing news and I'm consuming this and this ride that I'm on, this journey. I want off this thing. So I'm with my wife and we leave and we just go sit in the car and talk we don't like, start it. We're still out front, like on the curb. And I think she can sense my apprehension and anxiety. I am in my head, I'm like, all I want her to say is, you know what, babe? We just got this great news. Do we really need football? And I would have jumped at it. I'd have been like, nope, we're good. I want her to say this. Like, I want her to. I want her to throw me the lifeline because again, I want off this journey. I'm scared. And again, I am partnering. She asked me, she's like, listen, like, do you remember when you were in the hospital bed two years ago, if you'd have been presented this opportunity, what would you have said? And that, like, hit me. And I mean, like, I would have fucking jumped at it. Two years ago when I was sitting there and those doctors gave me that shitty news and they told me I was going to be here, I would have leapt at it. But here I am, having gone through it all and I'm scared to death and I don't want it. We talked a ton about regret. Here are the experts in the world cleared me and what was I going to do? Was I going to turn my back on this opportunity? You know, incredibly thankful for her in that moment. If she had asked for it, she earned it. She had gone through so much, carried so much of the burden over those two years that like, she definitely. I would have. Whatever she asked, I would have done. And know how powerful a moment that was that she kind of helped me get out of my own way again. I like to come back. And again you're wearing bright yellow jerseys in practice. It's Covid. So there's no preseason that year. Preseason gets canceled again. I've kind of gained confidence I'm going to camp again. My locker mate is freaking. Chase Young, we just drafted him with like, the number two pick. He also played for Urban Meyer. It was eerie. So we had the same college coach, but yet we're separated by 15 years, 16 years age difference. And it invigorated me. And I'm like, every day I would come to work and it was like, pinch me moment. I felt like a kid. This thing that I thought was gone forever, I never thought I'd have again. I'm getting to do it one more time. Putting cleats on and putting a helmet on. And I don't get any reps at practice. I'm the old beat up guy. We got a new head coach. They don't want to see me out there like. And they're kind of just hoping I go away. I get to throw a little bit here on the side and I get three reps here at seven on seven and I'm starting to kind of like I might be able to operate a little bit. Like again put me in the shotgun. I can't run anymore but like might be able to deal but. But I somehow make the 53 man roster. I'm enough that they make me the third string quarterback. We got two young QBs ahead of me. I'm the third string and I'm wearing the yellow jersey. There haven't been games so I've never been tackled. And I start the season as the third string which means you don't get any reps in practice, you don't dress for games. Nobody would actually even know. It's like Rudy, no one would actually even know if you're on the team. I don't care though. Loving going to work again and being in a locker room and again these awesome relationships and experiences that I thought were gone. And wouldn't you know it, season's not going very well and halfway through the year they decided to make a quarterback change. So they bench the starter and I, it's kind of the domino effect. I go from three to two and I get to be scout team quarterback that week. And it's the most reps I've had in two years. Was that week I got to be scout. We're playing the Rams. I got to be Jared Goff for two weeks and it was freaking amazing. I'll never forget coming home and like talking to my wife. I'm like, this would be so cool. Like I had so much fun this week being the scout team quarterback because mind you, I haven't played in two years either. I gotta wear this carbon fiber brace that I'm still trying to figure out. I have drop foot, I can't move, but I'm having a ball. And again gaining a little more confidence that like I can still throw it around. And I'm thinking, wouldn't this be really cool if I had like several weeks of this? It also coincides so like it's so funny like I think how things happen. We've been playing in empty stadiums, Covid, no one going well. It was the first week that I got bumped up to the backup that the governor of Maryland opened up the stadium to friends and family only. So we got to have like 300 people come to the game was even weirder. But my wife and kids Got to come. And it's the first game, I'm dressing, and I'm back at FedEx Field. The last time I was there, this entire thing got set in motion. And I remember thinking, like, again, like I said, like, oh, this would be awesome if I get to be scout team quarterback for, like, several weeks. Those few days, I feel like I broke through so much rust, and this will be great if I have, like, several weeks of this if I ever get a chance. And, like, wouldn't you know it, Second quarter on our sideline, our starter, Kyle Allen comes running, and he takes this just, like, monster hit on the sideline. And it was so loud. I remember, like, immediately. I knew it. I'm like, here we go. And I'll never do it justice. The range of emotions that kick in in that moment, Going over and getting my helmet and a ball, taking some snaps with the center. They're attending to Kyle, all the docs, and he knows this. When you go down, you try to buy some time for your backup to, like, get ready. So you kind of milk it. And so he's milking it over there, and they're checking him out, and I'm, like, getting some snaps in and some throws, and I'm buckling up my chin strap, and the coaches are coming over and like, okay, this is what we're going to do. And we're thinking here, and you're, like, immediately thrust into this situation, and you're trying to take this all in the complete range of emotions. For me, like, there is half of me that is so jacked up for this. I'm so freaking jacked. I want to jump out of my skin. I can't believe this is happening. I'm so excited. I get to go play quarterback one more time. Like, never could have imagined this. And then there's half of me that is just like, again. Oh, shit, you're gonna go out there. What if this goes bad? What if your leg breaks again or you look like a fool? I say all this because all those steps on my journey prior to then, on my rehab journey, those walls that I had to work through and eventually break down, all happened in, like, very safe environments. It was in a rehab room or it was down at the center for the Intrepid, or it was out on the practice field. They were very safe places for me to go see and work my way through that, like, uncomfortable feeling and then ultimately push through it. Well, the last giant hurdle was me. Could I get tackled? I just spent two years. I was an infection risk. My leg was fragile. I have this non union, like I walked around on eggshells, I was afraid to slip and fall. And now all of a sudden I'm intentionally running out onto a field as the quarterback. Like you got the ball in your hand every play and the biggest, baddest dudes on the planet are trying to get you and crush you. I'm not doing this in a safe space. I'm running out in the middle of a game on live TV with millions of people watching. And we're going to do this together.

Who you playing that day? Who's the opponent?

We were playing the Rams. So by the way, Aaron.

Yeah, Aaron Donald.

I mean, get the fuck out of here.

I'm arguably the greatest defender of all time.

It's so crazy how things work out. So like the guy that broke my leg is J.J. watt, three time defensive player of the year. There's only a couple of guys that have ever done this and here I am flash forward two years later. So I'm running out on the field. We're playing the Rams. I think they had the number one defense in the NFL that year. I'm running out all this range of motion, scared, bad self talk. I'm running all these different ways. And there's one mantra I'm telling myself with all that going on because I recognize and it's like, are you going to live today? That's what I'm telling myself. Are you gonna live? Are you gonna be present or not for this experience? The 10 guys in the huddle, the 53 guys on the sideline, like you owe it to them to be present, full attention to the details. And so for me, like again, it's not that anxiety and self doubt aren't there, it's more like again, like how do you react to them? So for me, like that's it. As I step into the huddle and call the play, I have a job to do and I need to be ultra focused to do it. And so wouldn't you know it, my third play in the first, third down. I've never been tackled like this in 25 years of football. I go to step up in the pocket, they had a great defensive line, they're rushing and I go to kind of step up and I feel a human being jump on my back, grabs my hip and kind of jumps up on my back like a piggyback ride. And again, I've never been tackled like this before, ever. And mind you, it's my first tackle back. Of course on this as to have like a 300 pound human being jump on me. I take a couple kind of like small steps, completely unaware again. I'm protecting the football and I go down and still, like, this is one of the most empowering moments of my life is like getting back up, lifting myself off the ground in that moment, knowing that I'm not fragile. That's what was in the back of my mind, that my leg is strong enough, and obviously realizing that it was Aaron Donald, who also happens to be one of the other members of that club. Three time defensive player in years, there's only a couple of them and he's bookending this thing. Incredibly powerful moment for me. Incredibly powerful moment. And the fucking game was a shit show, you guys. It started raining. I got sacked five more times. We got the crap kicked out of us. This was not your like, end of the movie deal where like things went well. Like it was a disaster, a complete disaster. And I just like babysat the ball till the clock. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, come on.

No, you're right. However, I'm so frustrated because like my first game back, it started raining again. It was miserable. I like, I had to try to put a glove on and like when you're a quarterback and it starts pouring like it sucks. Like nothing good happens and we just got the crap kicked out of us again. I got sacked a bunch of times. So I come home and I am like, dude, I'm super frustrated. Like, it was kind of embarrassing to be honest for me. Like a little bit. Like I was like, that sucked. I'm better than that. I come home and then my wife and like my sister and brother in law, my kids, this like champagne party, they're celebrating you did this. It's so amazing. And I've like completely lost sight of that. I'm like, fuck that, that sucked. But one of the amazing things of that moment, it was like again, getting hit that many times and getting sacked that many times. It was very much like a rip the band aid off moment. I had no doubt anymore that my leg was strong enough. I was lucky enough. I got to start six games the rest of that year, and I'll never forget every single one. I started calling my wife before in the locker room again that Sunday morning before the game. And I'm like, you know what? This is probably the last one they'll ever let me play and I'm gonna freaking let it rip. I was like so pumped. Literally living like every day was your last in a football sense. And this is probably the last day they're going to get to let me do this. And so I remember taking the field and every moment was like that. It was so amazing to play these games and I knew every play could be my last one. And it was so refreshing to play like that and determined to be so present in that moment. And I have friends that would call me, all my buddies that I played with that were like, I feel like your mom, you know, like, I'm so worried about you out there. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing? I got to a point, it really was like because of that Rams game, like I'd gotten to a point where like again I wasn't worried. It was so refreshing, it was so amazing to end my career. Those six games. I've never played freer in my life ever. Wouldn't you know it, we end up winning five of the six. I go five and one and we make the playoffs, we win the division and somehow make the playoffs at the end of the year. And it was just like this life changing experience for me. That freedom, certainly I was playing free at quarterback but like I'll have that with me for the rest of my life. And so I constantly get asked, why'd you do it? Why the hell would you have come back and played? And for me it's always that. It always goes back to that. It goes back to like the rest of my life, Shane, like with my kids and doing stuff with them and my wife. Even for me, like the freedom I'll have to adapt. I adapt from the day I get out of bed. My leg is not the same and it never will be. It doesn't matter. I have the confidence that like I can figure it out, whatever it is. And I've been lucky enough to go do a bunch of these crazy things that I never thought I'd be able to do and skiing and boarding and rock climbing and it's amazing. It's amazing to like try to figure it out. So lucky that like that entire journey gave me that and that, that resilience. I didn't just have it. It certainly is something that's like developed and fostered by teammates and coaches and. And it's not like that. I still don't deal with anxiety and self doubt going forward here. So yeah, crazy lucky that it ended up running the course. It did. It could have gone so many different directions.

Well, I push back on the fact that you said you didn't have it. It was always there, just wasn't revealed for sure.

No doubt. It has to get Revealed, it has to get clawed out of you. Certainly, maybe it'd be in there, but it needs to be fostered. And you got to build that resiliency from doing difficult things and struggling. And as uncomfortable as struggle is, I do look back on it to the point that when you're in those situations now, there should be a part of you that says, maybe this is what I need right now. Maybe this is the best thing for me. Maybe one day I will look back on this and it's like that was the moment. Whether you're an individual or a team or a company even.

Well, I have three reactions and I hear it, man. One gets crazy because it's. It's this horrible situation that now is going to have made you better. It's not just that you can do stuff. It's going to make you a better husband, it's going to make you a better dad, it's going to make you a better professional, everything. And that's crazy. It's life ending, feeling like. And it's going to make you better. The second thing is you forgot one thing that you do is you fucking wear shorts. You wear shorts and you wear flip flops and you're proud of it. That guy was right. That's crazy. I've seen you when we do shit, you wear shorts and it's point of pride. I can see your smile right now. And the third, I would correct you. And then you said when you got up and you could feel it, you felt like your leg was not fragile. It's like, fuck that, man. You learned that you're anti fragile.

Damn straight you learned that.

Hell, yeah. That is so cool.

I didn't know it at the time, but my new favorite term, antifragile.

Yeah, that's what you learned. You were not just your leg, but you, man, that makes me proud. Proud, proud, proud. Like happy. Like all the emotions. Like even hearing the story, you go through all the emotions.

Yeah. I mean, watching it from afar, we know the story. We watch you on tv. And to see you back out there that day, it's a miracle. I mean, just watching on tv. But to know you as a man and a father and as a competitor and as a glue guy and a co host, it just makes me really proud to have people in your life that can do like that. It's pretty amazing.

Yeah, man.

I do use it, though. I do shamelessly use it. Like Ravi with Shane when he, like, was beating me. I'll start, like, limping on the course and, like, try to sometimes like milk another stroke or something, you know, get some empathy. But it didn't work.

I don't know, man. You ever have a cage in your leg? Do they ever want to amputate your leg? I don't know.

I guess it's weird that you wouldn't.

Give me this stroke, but Shane is. He holds us to a high standard. But I mean, that is good, man. You got to have people in your life that you admire. Alex, man, I not just respect you and like you, I admire you, man. That is amazing.

Oh, thank, man. I mean, honestly means a lot, but like, again, I feel like on this side of it, it's so funny how to it flips like you. How lucky you feel. And that's the truth. Like, it could have gone so many different directions. Again, how lucky. Like, all the teammates and people along the way that when I needed it were there and not knowingly right. Like, again, just the way they live their life affected me. And I think that's one of the cool things going forward is like whatever team you're on or a part of, from family unit to like friends circles, business, sports teams, or even just like humanity, like the big team. Like, I think it's so cool to know that you can be that for one another. You have no idea what the person next to you is going through and where they're at. They could definitely be in one of the down. They could be going through it just how you go about your business and live your life. What Shane talks about all the time. Like, just be a good person, man. Like, you know, and I think that that can have a profound impact on people. It took a lot of years. It was like 10 years later that Blake found out the effect he had on me. And I'm actually bummed that I never told him sooner, but, like, you just don't know. You don't know the effect you can have on one another.

Well, dude, you should also. That guy. Is it Johnny Owens, your pt?

Yeah.

We gotta get him on the show.

He's awesome. Yes.

To me there's like this theme of like, bring the football. He, like, showed you something was possible by thinking, hey, man, like, this is possible. Like, how cool is that? Gave you a thought that something you could do. And then your wife, that moment of not letting you off the hook. Damn.

For sure.

My takeaway from the story is you hear stories of resilience and things that people accomplish under unimaginable traumas and adversity. And like, how do you do that? And it's crazy. Like to a man, Alex, you, it's no big deal. This is what you have to do. And so many people in the world, I think, struggle with that belief that they don't have that in them. And I argue like we all do, we all do. And it gets revealed in different ways. And obviously the people around you can help bring that out. But that's sort of why we're here talking about these sort of things that the highlight. Yeah, we're all just glue guys. Everyone listening, everyone hanging out with us for the hour. We all got it in us. And I hope that people listening can hear this story and maybe they're going through some tough times. Everyone faces tough times at some point. You can do it if you have good people around you and that belief that you can do it, you did it, man. That you're a hell of an example, hell of an example.

I couldn't agree more, Shane. I think you hit it right on the head. All those things. We all go through it and you can good people around you and you keep pushing and lean into it and we can't. Yeah.

And last thing, shout out to the military. I mean, just going and seeing the service people and what they've been through and that inspiring you and then also being there with you. I mean like I feel like that moment in it of the people around you and getting to see, like you said, like think about it, how you said gratitude. Lucky. We're talking about a fucking, you know, injury that could have ended your life at some point. And you're talking about you're lucky for it. And it's like seeing what else you can do, seeing the stuff you can do and then feeling like that, like that's amazing, man. And like some of that came from you being around these folks that have, like you said, given life and limits.

Amazing.

It's amazing.

No doubt.

Well said.

Antifragile. That's it.

Okay, we gotta get shirts, we gotta get some gear, some antifragile gear. It's one of my. I've written it down like multiple times.

I also think, Alex, we need some just live shirts. We need some play free shirts. There's a lot of merch.

Yeah, a lot of merch.

A lot of merch. You know, limited edition.

Thanks for tuning in to Glue Guys. We're on social media at Glue Guys podcast and we'll be back next week.