The Advice We Stole From Great Coaches - [Glue Guys, Ep. 77]

We were in film session and there were a couple guys, they just weren't making shots. And Hubie, you know, stopped the film and he said, you know, look, Jack, if you take the man's money, you gotta produce. And I'm just like, oh my gosh!

Alex, how was banging the drum at Arrowhead? I saw it on Instagram. It was badass.

I was telling Shane before you got on, like the trip was cool. I went to Kansas City. I did Good Morning Football, which is the NFL Network's morning show. And they did it live from Kansas City Live. So we had like fans there. Chiefs fans are nuts and turned out. So it was like super cool. This is part of like the ESPN NFL Network kind of merger. And then I stayed to beat the drum, you know, they'd asked me to do, and I obviously can't do any of those on Sunday games. So this is like one of the few opportunities. And I kind of thought like Elizabeth and the kids would go and they ended up like not coming. And so I was by myself, which was fine. And I got to see a lot of people, which was super cool. And obviously it's like, it was ins— I mean, Arrowhead's insane, dude. They had the, like, it's Monday Night Football, it's fireworks, it's the national anthem, full field, the, the, the bomber flyover. And then it's, you know, and then they play a video montage and of, of me and then— Oh, of you.

Oh, nice. Yeah.

And so, I mean, it's like, you know, again, so ridiculous.

Is it different to kind of witness it as like up in the box versus on the field? Like Shane one time gave this interview with Michael Lewis, like asked you, Shane, in the No Stats All-Star, like, hey, like, is it always cool to hear your name, you know, like get announced? And you were like, if you eat filet every night, like it starts to lose its taste or something. But you sound so different talking about how Arrowhead is. Like, did you feel like that when you were playing too?

Yes. Okay.

So you like appreciated it even then? Okay.

Yeah. And it, well, and it's become, no, no, it like, I mean, again, I got there, they had 2 wins the year before. So like, it was not like the fan base was, but yeah, it was different, you know, especially coming from California, like fair weather fans, Shane. Like you go there, it's a city of fountains, Kansas City. I think it maybe has the most fountains in the United States. And every Friday, they call it Red Friday. Every fountain is dyed red. Every building is lit up red. Every kid wears Chiefs gear to school. So it feels like college in that sense. You don't get that in California. And so in that regard, it was different. But by the end, when we real home— I played when they broke the sound record. That was the time I played in when they set the sound record. Oh, wow. Yeah. And yeah, like that kind of, you were like, it was a juggernaut by the time I left. And it has become even more so now, right? Like all the championships, the Super Bowls, like, dude, when they announce Kelce and Patrick coming out of the tunnel, dude, it's insane. It's unbelievable. Yeah, insane. So yeah, it is cool. Yeah. And so you do appreciate it. And to your point, Shane, like you also realize like, again, as long as you play, To think about how many times I ever got announced, because there's offense, defense, and you only play, you only announce at home games.

Yeah.

And so there's not that actually many times you run out of a timeout.

4 times. Yeah. 4 times.

And then the amount of instructions I got to beat the drum was laughable. You guys, I mean, I got like literally a half hour of instructions for something that took 10 seconds and I literally just swing a thing into a drum. But like, it was a lot, it was a lot of information.

Shane's breaking the rule of having the collared shirt though, but that's okay. Okay.

I broke it last week. It's all right.

Shane's working today though. This guy's in the office right now.

I can tell.

Delivering value.

Trying to uphold culture here at Old Palmetto. So, doing a good job, good culture. I'm just around for a pretty face and to cheer them on. So, that's my job with the college shirt.

Well, before we go to your topic, Shane, just so you guys know, I got a lot of good feedback on the Shire episode. People, I think, really liked— he was so good. He was so good. Like he was.

Yeah,

it was great.

The comment is Shires is so great, right? Yeah. Yes. I told him that he's just so great. It's also yeah.

Everyone has the same thing. Like he's so gracious in it too. Like if you listen to it, like a lot of the time he's like, "Hey, what do you guys think?" Like you know he it's it's amazing. Like he has this incredible job, but he's like very he's confident, but he's also like very willing to listen. You know it's a unique combination. A lot of wisdom for 37.

Wise beyond his years. He seemed— he was so mature.

So if you haven't listened to that podcast, you guys, check it out. One of our— one of our— Yeah, for sure.

One of our better ones. Yep.

Love it. We'll aspire to have a good one today.

All right, Shane, what are we talking about? Shane, I'm so curious on the notice. I loved your— the topic, but do you have any like posters in the hallways at work yet? Have you put up like on the— the idea of like Setting culture, which is like, it is in the sports world. That's like one of the first things I feel like coaches do. Totally.

Totally. That is what I say in every meeting that you like, you don't, you cannot walk into a building, a training room, the bathroom without being reminded why you're there. You know? And so like, you know, being in the locker room, we're so used to visual representation and visual reminders of championships and great players and great teams. Like, yeah, this is why we're here. And a little bit different in the corporate world. And so, So it's like, it's almost overwhelming because we're in a new building. And I, you know, I'm almost like paralyzed to put anything on the wall because I know how meaningful it is. You know, it's like, I can't just put up like, you know, next play, you know, on the wall and that's it, you know, and it just looks sad. And so it's got to be a whole thing. And so this is what I think about, you know, how do you remind people of greatness? You know,

Shane, Truly, one of my favorite versions of that is actually at Duke, the little street signs outside of Cameron, the We Believe In, right? Like the, you know, there's little ones that We Believe In Excellence, We Believe In Loyalty, We Believe— there's all these little ones. And I just, I love it because they're subtle, you know, but they are everywhere on these, these We Believe In Commitment. It's like one of my favorite things about walking around Cameron is seeing those, like the little subtle signs rather than— because they're not just in the locker room. They're everywhere.

No, it's so important. And how many times you walk by just signage in a building and you think it's just wall art or it's just words on the wall, but I believe in absorbing that and feeling that by osmosis. And okay, this is what we're about and it's really important. And I never really thought about it until I was hired as chief culture advisor. But, It's really important to see that every single day.

And Shane, this is funny. I don't know if you can do this, Ravi. Like, I feel like at a facility, not only do you have these like core sayings and beliefs, right? Like that'll be everywhere, but you obviously have a lot of photographers that'll travel with you. And it's pretty customary that like you'll put up like great effort or great moments of like Shane playing, right? And it's, and it really helps when you walk around the hallways and a lot of times you can change them out, right? Again, like they'll be, constantly rotating and some don't. But like, you do walk around again, you're the employee and like you're on the walls, right? Like, and it does help you feel like it's yours. And I'm just like trying to picture like, how do you create that though? Like, you know, Tim the sales guy, like slinging, you know, just like close the deal and, you know.

You know what I think? I think, so 2 things on this. One, you guys will laugh. So when I first started Instacart, my kids were pretty young, right? Like they were, So this is what, you know, 11 years ago. So they were, you know, I don't know, 3-1, 2-0, that kind of thing. And so this was like, you know, what values are we going to have in the family? And so we had the values all over the walls at Instacart. So I came home to Avni being like, you know, we should do— we should have like family values and we should put them everywhere in the house. And I have to tell you, the response from Avni was tepid. Okay. Like it was— it was not enthusiastic about us having family values. She was kind of like, leave your startup bullshit at work. Like, I don't— I'm not having like your words on our walls? Like, bro, like, what are you talking about? And so, you know, tried to bring it home, didn't work. Alex, I think the way you can do it in a company is I actually think that if there are like stories that are told in the company, whatever they are, if you have visual representations of those stories, like pictures from that, I think it's cool. Which is like, you know, if there are moments in the company's history that everybody talks about, you just have pictures of them. I think that's cool because it just ends up being something that like, is a shared experience. And I think that I've actually seen it a lot because what you end up having is companies that are more than a few years old, pictures from the early days, they're awesome. They really do provide value to people. So I think you kind of have to lean into it at the beginning of take pictures. And then at some point they become interesting and they're interesting stories to tell.

It's all storytelling. Yeah. That's, that's our job is to tell stories. And so that, I think that's a perfect segue into, uh, what was on my mind. And I know, uh, Ravi has a, has a, has a slant on this, but, but axioms, sayings, you know, uh, being around sports, you know, I find myself repeating so many of the things that Coach K taught me and, and Jeff Van Gundy and, and Hubie Brown and, and Erik Spoelstra now. And it's so funny when you're young and you hear these things, you kind of roll your eyes, but as you get older, you know, They're part of you. They're part of your life story and your experience. And so, Ravi had a slant on how you learn from mentors and how you sort of absorb the axioms and sayings of your mentors is so important in shaping you. So, I'm just curious in hearing your axioms, your favorite sayings, the things that your kids are starting to repeat and echo now. That's how the cycle continues.

Yeah. Well, the reason I liked it, Shane, your idea was the axioms. I think for me, I'll put it back to you for a second. What are some of the axioms? We know you either win or you learn, right? Because you say that and Zeke quoted it back to you the other day. So give us a couple of your axioms and then tell us the origin of them. Did you make them up? Did you read them? Did somebody else say them? Where do they come

from? When I was traded to the Rockets in 2006, I played for Jeff Van Gundy. I played for Jeff, JVG, for 1 year. And he's actually one of my favorite coaches, even though I played for him for only 1 year. And this is kind of at the forefront of basketball analytics, right? And in 2006, everybody still thought that a 15-foot jump shot from the free throw line was a good shot. Everyone's like, what are you talking about? Like, it's an easy shot to make. And actually, you know, the numbers, Tell you how terrible of a shot it is. And in fact, when you, when you shoot that shot off the dribble, it's the worst shot in basketball because it is the hardest shot to make, right? At least for a 3-pointer, you get rewarded for the extra point. And so, the math plays out. So, the worst shot is a 15-foot jumper. And so, as a basketball player in 2006, it's really difficult to wrap your arms around something you've been practicing your entire life. I mean, literally, last 20 years getting in the NBA, like, we talking about, I take that shot. Every day in practice. Now you're telling me, like, never take that shot? Well, the way JVG, Van Gundy, explained it, and he talked— he was a defensive coach, so he approached it from a defensive mindset. And he came into our locker room and said, this shot from right here, from 15 feet, will not beat us. It will not beat us. And I can explain the math. But this shot taken again and again and again will not beat us, right? So if you contest this shot, I will never yell at you. I'll never sub you. I'll never throw you under the bus in the media, right? If they make that shot, it's on me. That shot is on me. It's not on you. And so what I need you to do, don't fail the plan. Let the plan fail you.

Yeah, I've heard you say that. I mean, this is— Don't

fail the plan, let the plan fail you. And what he meant by that is like, just do as I ask, please, and do it with an energy, with enthusiasm, the discipline. Do it again and again and again. And if it doesn't work out, all right, it's on me. It's not on you. But you have to follow what I, what I say. The second you go, you know, YOLO, you go rogue, and you, you think you have a better idea of how You can play defense and it doesn't work out. Now we got problems. Okay? So just do as I ask and don't fail the plan. Let the plan fail you. And it's like that saying, I say it now as a basketball coach. I say it as a father, as a fantasy football commissioner. It's really, it's freeing. People just want certainty and they know, oh, I'm not going to get in trouble if I just do this. Yeah, but you got to do it like with energy and with discipline. But if you do this and it doesn't work out, yeah, I thought about this. All right? And it's all good. It's on me. And so, it's an amazing way to get people to follow what you want to do knowing that they're not going to suffer loss or adversity if it doesn't work out, right? Because again, what's the other— one of my other axioms? People don't fear change. They fear loss, right? That sort of goes along with don't fail the plan. Let the plan fail you. And it's just a way to give your people, your team, your teammates confidence that, no, just follow the plan. I thought about it. It's going to work. And if it doesn't, it's on me. It's a beautiful saying and I will say it to my last day on earth.

I love it. I love it. I actually think it's so funny when Shane, obviously, when you threw out this topic, right? And then Ravi, when you came back with like the combination of mentorship, I actually thought they like fit perfectly because again, You don't take an axiom from somebody like you don't respect, right? Like, right. Like, you're not gonna go repeat something if it comes from like a, like a douchebag, right? Like, you're gonna, you know what I'm saying? Like, usually somebody that you do respect, that you've, you've been in something with. And no doubt that one has, I feel like, way beyond sports, right? Like, when you talk about buy-in and getting people to buy in, you also give 'em license. I think they're like, hidden in that is also license to like, The whole like, if we fail, it's on me kind of thing, right? Like you take it off of them. You take it off of them. And I think that's like such a big part of that.

Because how many times in sports and in business are people just paralyzed? They go, I mess this up, it's my ass.

Yeah, they guard, right?

They guard, self-protect. It is my ass. And, you know, playing, whether you're playing football or basketball or business, you do not win playing protective, right?

What's so interesting about that, Shane, is I literally was talking to someone the other day and a younger person, and they were describing, they were nervous about taking some chances at work. I said to them, I was like, listen, I don't know if this is going to make you feel better or worse, but I'm going to tell you the truth. You seem to be worried about getting fired. The person was like, yes. I said, I can promise you, you're actually way more likely to get fired not taking any chances than you are if you start to take some chances. The path The thing that you're most afraid of is actually way more likely to happen if you just are like, you never do anything to surprise anybody. You know what I'm saying? And you just put one foot in front of the other. You got to go do some stuff. And so I think that the biggest risk— this is an axiom I've taken, but I stole it from Peter Thiel, who I've never met. But the biggest risk is not taking any risk at all. I actually think that that is something I think about all the time. Which is that people, they overestimate the likelihood of success on the safe path. And they assume that the world doesn't change. It's like, dude, the world changes all the time. And so that to me, to your guys' point of encouraging people to go and do their stuff, I say it all the time, biggest risk is not taking any risk. I can promise you that because you're guaranteed to fail if you don't take any risk.

I think buried in both those as a leader is this failure deal. Right? Like acknowledging it, it's part of it. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think that's such a big part, like hidden message in both of

those. Was that hard at Instacart as a leader to live it though? I mean, you know, you got investors, you have numbers to meet and, you know, or was your bias always towards, no, let's go. It doesn't work out. It's, again, it's on us. It's hard. I mean, as the rank goes higher, as responsibility goes higher, do you tend to lose that? Do you tend to lose that a little bit? And look, when you're young and you're fighting, yeah, you can afford to take risk and losses. But as the crown gets heavier, do you lose that at all?

I actually think— you know what's funny, Shane? I have many faults, many, many, many faults, of course, obviously. But one thing I think I'm okay at is sort of— I think I'm good at embracing reality. Like in a work context of like, what is actually happening? And that's another— I have a lot of axioms. But like, you know, they like, they like embrace reality, just like, what is happening? And so I think the thing at Instacart that helped me be a little bit more free, and like, you know, just like, just let it rip, like play free, go try it, was like, kind of an honest recognition that like 10, 11 years ago, we didn't have that much to lose. We had a high valuation, but we didn't have a real business. And so sort of like, what's the worst that could happen? I think in general, because I am okay at seeing reality clearly, I think I'm more willing to try things because I basically think people overestimate the risk of failure. I think that on that, so I think that it is hard. It's easy to be paralyzed if you think that you're not willing to accept the worst thing that could happen. A lot of times I just literally try to say out loud the worst thing that can happen. And I think as long as it's like, okay, I might get fired. Okay, we might lose our money, whatever. I'm like, okay, well, cool. I'm willing to deal with that. Let's go. The times that's actually much harder is when the thing that's the worst thing that can happen is not something you're willing to deal with. But I think, Shane, on the various axioms, because it's not about me, I think so many of mine have come from either somebody I really respect, or they've come from a belief that people like these little earworms, and they are more likely to do it if they remember it. So if I try to come up with something, I try to come up with something short and memorable that they can say to themselves. And it's because you can only get anything done if lots of people are willing to do it. And I think the axioms are very important. This is why I like Play Free, I try to say all the time. It's like something that you can remember.

Yeah. I mean, again, Shane, I couldn't agree with you more. I think as you become a leader, these things are easy to say if you have nothing, if you're not actually toeing the line. But you can imagine you're a leader and you have even more accountability on you. It's hard to live this. And I do agree with you, Ravi. That's why maybe these axioms are even more important, because I think the great leaders hide it better. Right? Like they absolutely have the same like fear of failure and doubts and things, but they just don't publicly exude it. Right? Like, and when they get in front of the team or they get in front of the, right, the all hands, like they just do a better job at like, no, these are, again, my, this is my messaging and this is what I'm gonna portray. Right? Like, and again, to be able to get my team—

Alex, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Let's take Harbaugh.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

What do you think Harbaugh actually feels? Because he's got all these messages. He's got the card. He's got the like, who's got it better than us? He's got so many. Okay. Now, but let's take him as the example. Do you think that he's just sort of managed his own fear and, you know, but like what he, to me, is a unique example. Like what does he actually feel inside?

Oh, there's like great tension, I think. Right. Like this guy, like they laid an egg here week 1. Like the Chargers were probably the most disappointing team week 1. And to like watch his press conference and to like know what he was feeling, right? Like absolutely hates failure, right? Like a lot of expectations on this team. They lose, they underperform, they're bad on all sides of the ball. Like you can just see like what it does to him, you know? But at the same time, again, like it's one week, they got to move forward. They got to get better, right? Like play as hard as you can, as fast as you can for as long as you can and don't worry, right? Like all these things to get his team to like kind of play free. Even though, again, like, other than his family, right? Like, this is everything to him. Yes. Right? And again, like, he wants it so bad, so bad. And again, that those 2 things are in tension, but he does a great job, again, to the team. And when he steps in a press conference, right? Like, all his messaging.

What do you say from Harbaugh? Is there anything you say?

That's my, actually my, like my, that's the one I say the most.

Yeah.

Because it is true. And I use it as a father all the time. Right? Like tension situations. I can feel my kids' anxiety, right? I know it's something big for them that they've built up in their heads and it doesn't necessarily have to be sports, but like it is that play as hard as you can, as fast as you can for as long as you can and don't worry. Right? Like just kind of like just go bust your ass. You know what I'm saying? And like, and I do think that comes from Harbaugh's playing days, right? Like that's also the great tension with Harbaugh is like Harbaugh the coach does remember what Harbaugh the player dealt with. Right. And I think that those 2 things, and I'm not saying you have to have played to be a coach, but like for him, that's, I think he understands that, right? That worrying didn't help him as a player at all.

Shane, you know what I think? Honestly, I actually think I was kind of making this up now, but I think it's true. Like as we were talking, I think part of the reason that people like the axioms for themselves and they say it to other people is it reminds them too. Like I think the, like it actually, if you think about what Alex said about like the leader you're trying to portray that you have confidence, you're trying to portray that we're going to figure this out. It's almost like you're convincing yourself of that too, because you're of course worried, you're of course scared that it's not going to work. But the repeating of the mantra or the axiom to yourself actually, I think, helps you believe it. And then it helps other people believe it. But I actually do wonder if a lot of the value of it is internal rather than external. It's almost just repeating that you either win or you learn for yourself, Shane, I don't know, you tell me. You're doing a service for the kids or for people you love when you say it, but are you also reminding yourself there of like, nope, it's okay. Either way, you learn. I don't know. For me, I wonder, I feel that axioms help me.

Yeah. You know what? I was thinking of another axiom that I love. And actually, I think I lived this one, but I felt that other people around me didn't live it. Yeah. And so, it gave me another way to say, hey, look, we got to play hard. And this comes from Hubie Brown, one of the greats. I mean, I could do a whole 2 hours on Hubie Brown's axiom. And we were playing for the Memphis Grizzlies, 2003. We weren't very good. And we had a bunch of guys making a lot of money at the time and they just weren't playing. And, you know, like, in pro sports, like, coaches never talk about the money you make, right? Like, no one talks about the money that you make. It's almost like it's a taboo. And certainly, no, a coach has never called— in all my experiences, a coach has never called out a player for making a big nut, you know, and underperforming. But Hubie Brown did. And we were— I'll never forget this. And we were in film session. And there were a couple guys that just weren't making shots. You know, I think it was like Jason Williams, you know, maybe like Bonzi Wells, a couple guys that just were going through a, you know, weren't playing hard, weren't making shots. And Hubie, you know, stopped the film and he said, you know, look, Jack, if you take the man's money, you gotta produce. And I'm just like, oh my gosh! Have you ever heard of a coach? Have you ever, you know, heard of a manager calling out something? Hey, yo, yo, yo! Like you took the man's money. You got to produce. You got to produce. And it was like it was like refreshing though. That like this old school. Hey, you got to earn what you know. Someone gave you this this contract based on the understanding that hey, I'm gonna get X Y and Z out of you. And if I'm not getting it. You know, especially with guaranteed contracts in the NBA, you know, that— and trust me, that axiom did not land well. But I've used that a ton around people who, you know, I have high expectations for. And I use the metaphorical money as in, yo, you're here, or you're given responsibility, or you're given opportunity. Like, you got to produce. You got to produce. I don't know how to put this in any Softer way. But if you take the man's money, you got to produce, Jack.

I mean,

how great

is that? I do think on that note, like similar to this, it's funny when people get put in positions where they have to speak, right? Like, or feel compelled to speak. Sometimes this happens definitely in the locker room where all of a sudden you feel like the eyes are on you and you got to step up and say something, right? I do think it's a mistake when people step up there. And I think obviously it's human nature to be like, what should I say? What's going to sound good? What does everybody want to hear? And instead, I do think it's like oftentimes if you're at a loss for words, what do you want to hear? Because it is more often than not, if you're thinking or feeling a certain way, there's probably several people that are feeling the same way. And that if you do treat it like that, and I do think it's a way to stay authentic, like, okay, well, this is how I'm feeling. And I'm going to speak to me or challenge myself, right? Like, and I do think that that lands better and is received better because it is more authentic and it's true to you then, right? But again, there are probably several people in the room that are feeling pretty close, right? Like pretty similar.

Well, dude, I think also like what you guys just said, I was thinking about the Hubie story. You know, one of the things that I think we can all provide for the people we love is just like the truth. And like Hubie, even if people don't want to say that, That's true. That's going to affect those people's careers. That's going to affect all— Hubie did those folks a gift, a real service by telling them that. Because whether or not you say it, it is true. And I think about, I was complaining one time when I was at KKR to my dad about something and he took this long pause and he was like, son, how much money did you make last year? And I was like, I dutifully answered the question. He's like, do you know why they gave you that money? I was like— of course, you feel this big afterwards because it's like— he's like, do you know how old I was the first time I made that much money? It's just like, stop your fucking complaining. That's what the money's for. Have you seen Mad Men when she's like, you never say thank you? He's like, that's what the money's for. I think that there's some element of this that Hubie did, I think, that's really good of look, man, like, this is the reality of the world. Alex, the thing I like about what you said about like, it's what you need to hear. I actually think that all of us are pretty allergic to like something we view to be fake or performative. And I think that the real reason that you want to hear what the person wants to hear for themselves is because it's real. You know, like, we're in this like search for like, what do you really think? What do you really feel? And it's actually particularly acute now, I think, in a world of like AI-generated stuff, like you feel this like real magnet towards somebody who's telling you the truth, and just telling you what they actually think, whether it's good or bad, you know, like, and so I think it's very magnetic when someone just like says what's on their mind, what's in their heart, what they're thinking, rather than what they think you want to hear.

So, you know, yeah, then you get this like Hollywood version.

Yes,

just cheesy, corny.

I'm like, I could have, I could have asked the AI for that, you know, like, I don't, I don't— what does that do for me?

Yep, totally. Yeah. Well, okay, then I'll continue on that same note. Obviously, I've told at length the Blake Costanzo.

Of course.

Right? Like, just live. Are you going to live today? Which was funny because it is so often, right? I remember how, like, what a profound impact it had on me that again, this guy was acknowledging, like, the expectations, the craziness of this whole thing, like where I was struggling with that. And again, I bet I said that every pregame for the rest of my career to all the young guys. And again, like I was just talking to myself, right? Like huge game, right? Like a lot of expectations. We're also nervous before and anxious and like, it was like, are you gonna live, right? Like, can you be present? Can you like block that stuff out and lock in kind of thing? And so, and my kids definitely like, that's a family like deal at this point. Like, you know, just live, right? Like just get outta your own head, right? Get present kind of thing. And so that's one that's like for sure stuck with me.

And remind us, you know, how often did you feel that when you, when you had your injury and you're coming back? I mean, I mean, that had to be like your rally, rally cry, right?

For sure. And it was like, it's so funny because again, I got, I was in my head constantly over those 2 years. Just like, there's so much, I had so much doubt over what the rest of my life would look like. And so you're just like in your own head always, right? Like, like constantly.

You know, Alex, I've talked to you about your injury so many times. I don't think I've ever actually heard you articulate that. I'm just like thinking about what you just said of like, there's so much doubt over what the rest of my life will look like. I think that— sorry to interrupt, but like, it like, I'm like envisioning myself in your shoes of like, yo, like, I don't know what anything's gonna be, you know, like, and so what am I gonna do today in order to deal with that?

Yeah, like, I just sat in my head and like, I just envisioned myself like, Again, like, I'm never gonna be able to like wrestle my kids. Like, I'm never gonna be able to like chase them around. I'm never gonna be able to ride a bike. Like, I'm never gonna be able to like walk 18 holes, right? Like, very like just like fundamental things.

Live free. Totally. And I just like— Your fundamental ability to live free is being threatened, right?

And so, I just replayed those over and over again. And like, again, you're just like, you're not present when that's going on at all, right? Like, At all. And so, and again, it is so human nature, like, anytime our insecurities are triggered, like, you just, that's where we go. We go in our own head and we start, like, you know, imagining the worst. And, like, for me, it was always, like, a check to try to, like, and it still is, to try to, like, get back to being, like, present, grateful kind of thing.

Ravi, you're around so many smart people, you know, George Roberts, Henry Kravis. I mean, what do you take from some of the mentors that you've been around, some of the titans that you've Had a chance to spend time with. Yeah, sure. That you use on your employees now.

Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting you say from those folks, but also from folks that are your mentors. Like, a lot of the stuff I say is from Coach K, having not even known him. You know what I'm saying? So, like, you know, I think the— I remember there was a time where, like, I was really, you know, worried about some professional stuff, you know, many years ago. And I was worried about what other people were doing. And I remember Coach K giving a bunch of interviews where he's like, look, we're running our own race. He would say that all the time, like we're running our own race. It's not about the other people. We're running our own race. And I'll be telling myself that, like you got to run your own race. Like you need to be as fast as you can. You need to do as well as you can. Don't worry about that. None of that. None of that matters. So run your own race. Next play, huge deal. Like all from Coach K, right? Dude, from our episode with him, the get on the right bus. I was like, I think about that all the time. Like am I you know am I on the right bus? On a bunch of the other ones, like you know George. always would say, simplest thing, people do business with people they like and trust. The simplest thing. This guy's worth like a gajillion dollars. He's like this brilliant investor. He's like, you know, he's so like, he's like this titan of high finance. And the thing that he says is like, look, man, people do business with people they like and trust. I think about that all the fucking time. Right? Just like that. If you really want to do business with somebody, you know, make sure they like and trust you. Be someone that they can like and trust. Tell other people that. Bring joy comes from Steve Kerr having the values for the Warriors, joy being one of them because of Steph. Like I say it all the time, you know, I think play free. I don't even really know where play free came from, you know, but like it came from a lot of places. But like all of these things are things that, you know, that was honestly probably sort of inspired by Scott Nuttall, who's like the KKR co-CEO, just because he looked so happy when he was like talking to everybody. He just looked like he was himself. I don't know, Shane, they come from everywhere, and they really are meaningful to me. Then the earned success is the key to happiness came from Arthur Brooks. I actually really enjoy reading and listening to people, mainly because I can pick things up that would affect my brain. Demanding and supportive came from Adam Grant. So many of the things, they came from other people. Then of course, all of the things, that like are core to me came from my parents, you know? So that's why I wanted to tie it back to like, who did you hear it from? You know, even Harbaugh, the who's got it better than us? Like, this is straight stolen from him and we use it all the time in our house. So I don't know.

Yeah. The first couple I wrote down, Shane, were from my dad for sure. And then it got to more like professional, like obviously I have one from like every coach that I played for. But yeah, the first couple were, the one I use for Steve Kerr all the time that I still use, by the way, is the FI.

Yeah,

that like I had no idea until you brought that up, Ravi, and then we talked to him about it, and I still think it's like one of the coolest. How about

how about a funny scene, a funny axiom that that that

you oh I got

yeah

I want to hear a funny one you know I have some no no that's good maybe some like

some some backwoods humor

you know yeah well okay well I don't know if this is gonna land like that's super funny but again I was like I have the ones from my dad right like that like I again my kids are just here nonstop, right? Because I was ingrained with them. And then I kind of went through and I was like, yeah, immediately I had Jim Harbaugh. Immediately I have like Urban Meyer. And then I got to like Andy Reid, who's on like the Mount Rushmore of NFL coaches, right? He's like one of the greatest NFL coaches of all time. And it's like, I started to try to think and he's like the total opposite. He does not have like a serious axiom like this. Like he doesn't, it's just actually not even in his philosophy, right? Like this is a guy that comes to every team meeting With a three by five card, because if it's more than if it can't fit on a three by five card, like I shouldn't be saying it to the team, right? Like does that make sense? Like because it's too long, right? Like it's too long-winded. And the number one thing that like I wrote this down—it's it's crazy. This is insane. Like the quote I have, like the saying, and it's obviously I don't say it to my kids, but I it's more of like the messaging behind it is I'll treat you to a cheeseburger because the last words

you

always say

would

say the night before a game. Every single week, every single week was, I'll treat you to a cheeseburger, right? Like, and it was just like constant. And he still says it. He said it his entire career. Night before a game, I'll treat you to a cheeseburger. I was just there on Monday night, was like joking around with the coaches. It's like same thing. He's in his Hawaiian shirt. He's got his 3x5 card. Final words to the team are, I'll treat you to a cheeseburger, right? And it's just kind of like his style. He's got a smirk on his face. He's winking to you. Like, that's just him. And again, I think it kind of speaks to like Doing it your own way.

What do you got, Shane? Give us a funny one.

Well, I mentioned my, my, uh, my teammate White Chocolate, Jason Williams. And, you know, Jason Williams has just a very West Virginia, uh, sense of humor. All right, a lot of cuss words, uh, but like a lot of wisdom in, uh, in what old J-Walt, you know, said. You look at him, you know, little, little white guy, all these tattoos on him, but like he had some like country wisdom that I, I still use. And one of my favorite sayings of his was, is the popcorn popping yet? And so, you know, we used to shoot for money, like after— I love it. I love it. After practice. And, and there'd be a lot of talk and, you know, you know, guys would be warming up and J-Will would be like, popcorn ain't popping yet. Popcorn ain't popping yet. And you get, you know, the money's on the line. Of course, you know, J-Will, he's a gamer, so he wins the money. You go, Popcorn ain't popping yet. It's popping now. And it was like basically saying like, look, like anyone can be great when it doesn't matter. Can you be great when the lights are on? You know? And like I always prided myself on like, yeah, I work hard, but like when the lights are on, I'm there. You always say that shit.

When the popcorn's popping.

Popcorn's popping. I love it. Like when I'm playing golf and I got a match and people are talking some noise to me in the first first, uh, you know, 4 holes, they win the first couple holes. I said, popcorn ain't popping yet. Popcorn ain't popping. No, it's not game time yet. You know, you make that turnaround 15, 16, 17, you know, the match tightens up. It's all right. Now the popcorn's popping. You smell it? You smell that? Smell that popcorn? Yeah. Oh, it's game time now. Let's see what you got. And so like, shout out J Will for an amazing piece of wisdom about, you know, Can you perform when it matters? You know, not, not when, uh, you know, no one's watching and, and there's no consequence to you. Can, can you perform when the popcorn's popping?

I think Southern wisdom is underrated, Shane. I think that like the stuff you're saying there, I'm like, yeah, I can totally envision, you know, some of that. I, I— we're a family-friendly podcast, so I can't share the specifics. I would tell you that Doug Leone has some like, uh, rules for relationships that are obscene and ridiculous, but they're true. And so, you know, if you ever get into a conversation with him and you ask him his rules, you will nod your head and you will be like, I can't believe you said those things out loud. But those are things that I occasionally think about. And at some point, I will share them with, you know, my sons, but in a very private setting.

Talk about your kids. So do your kids— do you find your kids Repeating any of your axioms? Yes. What do they say and what's the context that they say it

in? It's always eye rolling, obviously, Shane. You know, it's like, okay, Dad, we got it, we got it, we got it. And so one example for us, for sure, I'm, you know, I've— if my kids are like in therapy when they're 30, it's going to be because I like yelled at them all the time when they were fighting with each other of like, remember what team you're on? Like, what team are you on? You know? And the answer is supposed to be Team Gupta. Like, that's the first team. Like, the family is the first team. And so, dude, like, If they themselves, they will just bring up if they're arguing and I kind of come over, they're like, "What team are you on?" Like they'll just like roll their eyes and hit it, and they just know that that's what's happening. I'm like, "Yeah, you know whoever said that was smart." I haven't heard that

one before. I like that one a lot.

Yeah, yeah. And so I get that all the time, all the time from the kids. I'm trying to think about other ones, Alex. I don't know if you've heard any of them, but you know, but that's the best, the one that they say the most.

I like that one a lot.

Just with a hard eye roll, though. You got to remember the manner in which you're getting it back.

Oh, no, it's sarcastic. It's very— you know, I'm not— you know, this is— these are shots fired. Okay? This is not like trying to impart wisdom. This is trying to be an asshole, right?

Yes, yes, exactly.

What do your kids say?

Yeah. So the one that— and again, it is like the number one thing. There's 2 sayings that like immediately I wrote down on paper that my dad From my childhood, and I still say to this day, right? I say, I obviously use it on my kids heavily. My kids have heard it from their grandpa and me constantly. My daughter, every time I say it, she's like, she just like mimics me back. And the first one's get tough, right? Like—

Oh yeah, I like that.

The moment you complain, when I was a kid, I heard get tough 10 million times. And I say it to my kids all the time too. And my daughter's like, get tough, get tough. Like, that's all she does is just like, fire it back at me. And they've, again, it's so funny when I wrote these down because it's like, this made me pause and think about who I am. And the other one that I use all the time, Shane, and kind of on this same note, and my dad said it to me all the time, was this too shall pass, right? Like just this old ancient adage. And it was just constantly anytime I was going through something hard and my dad's just like, this too shall pass, right? This too shall pass. And I do say it to my kids and use it, right? Like, again, so often, like, we just overreact to everything, good and bad, you know? And those are the two I probably use the most with my kids.

Shane, I got one more that my kids will just totally hit me back with sarcasm. So one, I'm always like, yo, man, you guys got it pretty good, okay? Like, come on, you know, what are we talking about, right? So sometimes if they're complaining about something, I'll say, look, if that's the worst thing that happens to you today, you're going to have had a great day. Right? If that's the worst thing that happens to you today, whatever. If that's the worst thing that happens to you today, you're gonna have had a great day. And so these dudes, they just always spout it right back, you know? And so what happens sometimes is occasionally we'll like play golf together and I hit a bad shot and I'm, oh, you know, one of these. Well, Dad, if that's the worst thing that happens to you today, you'll have had a great day. And it's just so good. But yeah, that, that is, that's an ism that's said all the time in our house.

Yep. And, and you probably know the one that, that I say that my kids do not waste an opportunity to say it back to me whenever they can. Dad, there's only 2 outcomes. There's only winning and learning, which is my favorite. And I— it's a great one. I don't know. I don't know who— where I heard that. You know, I wrote it down somewhere. And, and guys, guys, you know, there's only 2 outcomes. You win or you learn. All right. Hopefully, it's really hard to learn when you do well and you win games because you think you got everything figured out. But, when you lose, all right, you're willing to look yourself in the mirror and say, what do I got to do? So, if we're playing Monopoly, we're playing golf, we're playing anything competitive and they're used to me showboating, the boys beat us in wiffle ball for the first time really ever. All right. It was a fair game. They beat us pretty good. And afterwards, he came up and said, Dad, just remember, there's only winning and learning. And so I wear it as a badge of honor because if it's stuck, you know, I can remember forever.

I also feel like when my kids tell a joke that makes me kind of smirk, I'm like, let's go. Good for you. Like, I like that you're being kind of an asshole right now. You know, like, I think that's— I appreciate that.

We have a very sarcastic family. And the other one I stole from my father-in-law. Bob Uefer, when he is done with the conversation, he has a very distinct way of— succinct way of ending the conversation. If he's getting asked a lot of questions, he goes, guys, it's just one of the great mysteries of the cosmos. And so, if my kids are bothering me and they're asking me questions, I'm trying to watch a game or something, or my wife is on me for something, and she'll laugh at This year, Heidi, I pay for that one. Popcorn be popping that day. Popcorn will be popping that day.

Me too.

That was great. That was great.