Inside the Career of the Ultimate NFL Journeyman: Ryan Fitzpatrick - [Glue Guys, Ep. 67]

I was the first pick in the 2005 draft class. You're the 250th. You play 17 seasons. You play longer than me.

Agents started calling me after my junior year, and that was the first time where I was like, wow, this, this actually might be a possibility. Let's give it a run. So I got picked number 250, and from there it was just a crazy career of trying to take advantage of different opportunities each place I went.

All right, everybody. Today we are all in for a treat. My good friend Ryan Fitzpatrick, Fitzmagic as he is affectionately called, the 17-year NFL vet who played for 9, an NFL record 9 teams, threw touchdowns for an NFL record 8 of them. I think he also had rushing touchdowns for an NFL record 8 of them. This guy is just a, was an absolute baller in the NFL. We were both the same draft class in 2005 and he went on to play one more year than me. Again, 17 seasons. This guy, since retiring from the NFL is now an analyst on Thursday Night Football for Amazon Prime. He's also the host of his own podcast, Fitz and Whit with Andrew Whitworth, who he works with at Amazon. So check that out. But again, this guy just— this is going to be a masterclass in leadership. Again, the experiences, the teams, the coaches that he's played for, the QB rooms that he's sat in, the experiences that he's had in his life are second to none. And he's an even better human being. Ryan, dude, it's been really hard on where to start because there's so many things that I want to ask you about that I admire about you in your career. I think for me, I just got to jump back. Like, I think the Harvard thing is interesting where you went to school. Like, was it obvious for you that you would play 17 years in the NFL? Like, when that, like, honestly, you know, is Ryan our first Harvard guy, Alex? Ryan, he might be our first Harvard guy. Weirdly enough, you aren't bringing any Harvard people from the business world. Wow. You know, I know, I know you haven't had like Tommy Amaker on yet.

No, no. We'll get him on next. All right.

Hasn't made the cut. Hasn't made the cut yet.

Well, I feel, I feel honored. No, when, when I— so I went to, you know, I went to Harvard, taking it back just to high school. I just wasn't recruited by anybody. My both my parents went to Arizona State. I grew up in Arizona. That's kind of where I wanted to go. I love Jake Plummer. That was like my guy. I'm about to play in his pickleball tournament actually, which is cool, but not really into mushrooms. So we're friends but not great friends. And so I just, once I wasn't getting any offers, got an offer from Eastern Washington, that was my only one. I decided to look at where are the best places I could possibly go, turned to the Ivy League, made Harvard my goal and ended up going there, but certainly not with the idea that the NFL was the next step. So for me, it was, uh, after my junior year, I did like the Manning Passing Academy, which was cool. Like, got to be a counselor there, and that was the first time I got to like— I think David Green was there throwing, Derrick Anderson was there, you know, some of those guys from our class, maybe Kyle Orton. Some of those guys were throwing, and I— it was the first time I got to pit myself against them and be like, okay, this isn't that different from what I'm doing. And then agents started calling me after my junior year, and that was the first time where I was like, wow, this, this actually might be a possibility. Let's give it a run. But then there were guys like you, you know, number 1 pick where it was like, holy crap, like I can't run 4.5.

How—

I'm like, I'm just saying, like, so I got picked number 250, and from there it was just a crazy career of trying to take advantage of different opportunities each place I went.

This is what's crazy. So I think you were a class ahead of me and I only had one offer to the University of Utah. And if I didn't go to Utah, again, like we've talked about this, my dad was my high school principal. I had really good grades. Like I got into a bunch of Ivy Leagues. There's a strong possibility I would've went to Harvard and nobody would've ever heard of me 'cause I never would've seen the field.

Right?

Because Ryan's— I'm being serious. The greatest Ivy League quarterback here. This is what's— you go on to— by the way, I never got fucking invited to the Manning Passing Academy ever. I'm still— it's still wrong.

You're bitter about that?

To that point, I was the first pick in the 2005 draft class. You're the 250th. You play 17 seasons. You play longer than me. Our statistics are virtually identical. I don't know if you know this. They're like, it's like eerie how close they are, our career stats as a player. And yet like our journey couldn't have been more different. I played 8 seasons when I first entered the league for the Niners because I was the number one pick. So I was afforded all these like second, third, fourth, fifth chances, dude. You came in, right? Like not even knowing, you know, if you were guaranteed anything. Like what was that like, you know, coming into the league? And a little bit of that's kind of been this, your career, you played for 9 teams. That's an NFL record.

The only thing is, Alex, I just, I don't know if this is right, but I think literally there are only 3 quarterbacks ever to be drafted 250 or later. Okay. And have played 15 plus seasons. And I think it's you, Ryan, it's Brady and it's another guy, Trevor or something that I don't know.

Trevor Simeon.

Trevor Simeon. I literally think that's the list if the AI is right here.

Yeah, let me, let me tell you this too. I really root for Brock Purdy. I do. But this guy is really stealing my thunder. He's also from my hometown, Gilbert, Arizona. I was the highest paid 7th round draft pick of all time. Well, that one ended as well. And now the only question I get around town is, do you know Brock Purdy? You've met Brock Purdy? My kids came home last year. And they're doing a report on famous Arizona people, and my daughter wanted to do me. Well, guess what? I wasn't on the list, but Brock Purdy was on the list. So this guy has stolen so much of my thunder, man.

What team do your kids root for, by the way? We got 9 jerseys in the closet.

Yeah, 9 jerseys. They got a lot of choice. They got 7 kids. And so really, most of them root for where they were born. They were all born in different cities.. And so we've got the whole gamut. We've got a Jets fan, we got a Texans fan, we got a Bucs fan, we got a couple Bills fans, uh, Dolphins fans. So it's kind of all over the board, but it's, it's cool. It's unique because they, a lot of them, and there's a lot of tears on Sunday as well with some of those teams that I just mentioned and, you know, the losing records, but they're very loyal to the cities they were born in.

9 teams.

Wow.

For our listeners who don't understand what it's like to go to a new city— you know, I got traded a few times in my career, but I had amazing stability. Like, what's the mentality of going into a new city almost every year? New offensive coordinator, new playbook, new teammates. I mean, you had to— I bet you became an expert on getting people to trust you very quickly. We talk about speed to trust, Coach— that was a big Coach K thing. Walk us through how you walk into a new locker room, you know, 9 times, 8 times, and develop that trust.

Within the locker room? Yeah, I'll start with my wife is amazing, and that's the only way it ever worked because everywhere I went, besides when I went to Miami, when I was in Tampa, my family came with me everywhere we went. And so to be able to have her kind of take care of all of the stuff to allow me to focus on what I needed to do, she was a rock star through everything. So that helped a lot to alleviate some of the concerns off the field with finding schools and sports and stuff for the kids. But I think for me, the very simple way that I went in everywhere I did and just made friends and tried to figure out what the culture was. Some of the places I was there just to fit in. Some of the places I was there to try to fix the culture in a year or two years' time. I sat at the lunch table and I would be there, you know, for 2 hours, and it would be 3 different groups of people that would come in, and I would just have conversations and get to know people and allow them to get to know me. And, you know, the dynamics of an NFL locker room, different from basketball, and that there's so many more players. And so the— it's just fascinating to sit down and to talk to everybody and just to find a deeper level of understanding with your teammates. I think that's one of the most important things, and that was the easiest way that I assimilated myself into all the different teams and all the different cultures. And then for me too, my role was always different. Sometimes I was coming in to be the starter, and with that it was like the bridge starter. I was there for a year to groom somebody else. Like in Miami, I was there and then they drafted Tua, and I was there to groom Tua and kind of bring him along. Other places I was there to be the backup. In Tampa Bay, I was there to back up number 1 pick Jameis Winston. Well, then Jameis Winston, you know, had some issues and got suspended, and then I became the guy, and it went back and forth. And so each dynamic was different, but I think it all started with having a genuine understanding for who these people were, to get some sort of relationship and develop a relationship with them. And that stuff carried onto the field when when we were out there as well.

Ryan, when you think about— so one, I'm struck by the idea of like sitting at the lunch table, like it's the exact same thing you would do as a kid, right? If you really think about like the way to go and build friendships, like it's remarkable to think about that. And that's the same thing you would do outside of an NFL, you know, environment, right? Of like get to know people. One thing I was thinking about when you were talking was like what role ego plays for you in that 17 years where you're playing different roles each time. Sometimes you're the backup. Sometimes you're the bridge starter, sometimes you're the plan for the long-term starter. Like, does your— did your attitude change or your demeanor change in each of those as you walked in? Or was— you know what I'm saying?

Like, how did it affect you mentally? It's a really good question. I think, I think the best quality that I had was there was no ego, but I always, I always had to have 100% confidence in who I was as a player. And so I don't know, Alex, how it was for you, but like, I had a lot of different roles and I had to always make sure that the team was gonna be number one. But that didn't mean that I was not sitting back there in the meeting room going, as soon as I get my fucking chance to get out there, like, this is gonna be my team. It didn't mean that I couldn't be friends. And that quarterback room, it's so special and it's fragile too. You have to make sure that like, you guys are all in it together because it's a really tough role, especially when things aren't going well. It's a tough position to have friends. And so in that quarterback room, you're such a good support system for each other. But I always had it in the back of my mind, as soon as I get out on the field, you know, I'm gonna do the best I can to never give this job up. That's just kind of how it was throughout my career.

I think there's something that, like, you hit on right there that's spot on, Reby. Like, 'cause there's so many times how many of us, and I did this again when I got drafted to the Niners, I've talked about this repeatedly. Like, well, I sat at the lunch table, but like, I was so insecure about being the number one pick so that I like puffed my chest and tried to like look the part and you end up being like the douchebag, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Whereas like Ryan has this amazing quality. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I had to like put this thing on and act as if, right?

Like, and kind of front.

Ryan has this amazing quality. You can like already tell, right? Like he's so down to earth. He's so comfortable with who he is.

Right.

And that's the weird thing too about an NFL locker room is, right, it's not just that there's so many guys, but like the walks of life, right? Like the guys from the South, from the Polynesian Islands, like 350-pounders to like 160-pound little DBs and like everything in between. And to be comfortable in your own skin, to be the, you know, the bearded Ivy Leaguer, right? Like Baron, his cheddar on his chest, you know what I'm saying? Like just like owning who he is. And then when he steps into the huddle though, like that confidence that you have to have, especially as a quarterback to like, I'm going to sling this thing, man.

Right.

And like everybody cues in on that. And I think that is something, Ryan, that like a superpower of yours because you have been beloved everywhere you've played and, and, and not just by like all your teammates, but I think especially like the guys catching the rock and like you've played with some amazing receivers like Brandon Marshall, Deshaun Jackson, Mike Evans. Hopkins, right? We both played with Terry McLaurin, but like, they universally, like, they, these guys love to play with Fitz, right? Like, you know, they love to play with you. And I think that balance of like, when they meet you at the lunch table, right? Like, I don't know, there's something that is, I think, a quality about you that's amazing.

I think a big difference though, between my career and your career, Alex, obviously like where we were drafted, but then expectations, like right away you came in with the weight of the world. On your shoulders were for me, it was like nobody expected anything. And, um, and then just, you know, the, the teams that you played on, uh, some of those Chiefs teams especially, like really good, talented— you guys, you know, making the playoffs and making some runs. A lot of the places I went to, and my agent would get mad at me at times because, you know, towards the tail end of my career I wanted to play. I didn't want to be a backup. And for me, like, the positions or the teams that I was going to be able to get a chance at playing, I was going to be the bridge or the gap starter. And so that usually meant the teams weren't very good. But I like— I relished that, to be able to walk into these teams that maybe won 4 games a year before and to be the guy and to try to breathe life into some of these receivers or some of these, like, reclamation projects. Uh, when I got to Miami, DeVonta Parker is a good example of a guy that just didn't have a ton of confidence in himself. Mike Kosicki was a guy that had kind of been beat down a little bit. So to like breathe confidence into these guys and to see them take off, like that was towards the tail end of my career. Like that's, that's what I appreciated the most. We weren't winning, you know, 10, 11, 12 games every year, but from the beginning of the season to the end of the season, uh, to see the growth in some of my teammates, like that was something that was really— that kept me going, that I really enjoyed.

And were you always comfortable, Ryan, like with who you were, comfortable in your own skin? Is that something you worked on? Because I think that it's obviously unique and impactful and everyone notices it. You can tell from the— literally, as soon as we get on the Zoom, you are who you are in a great way. But was that always true or did you work on that?

I certainly think it's something that as you get older, you stop listening to other people's opinions. And I think part of it is Again, going back to like the spouse, like I married the right person and I think she is just somebody that's completely comfortable in who she is. And so that example has always been big for me. But the other thing for me throughout my career is like, I was never really supposed to be there, you know? So there's just always, for me, it wasn't the weight of the world that was always on my shoulders. Um, there was a distinct change in like the way I thought about playing quarterback in the NFL. In 2015, I had a great year with the Jets, probably my best year. In 2016, I had an awful year with the Jets, probably my worst year, and I didn't want to play anymore. I was done with football, uh, absolutely hated it, wanted nothing to do with it. And Dirk Koetter called me, who ironically was a coach at ASU that didn't recruit me, Derek Cutter called me, said, hey, we'd love for you to come back up James in Tampa. And so I hung up the phone with him. I got on and I looked at how far Disney World was from Tampa, and it was an hour and 7 minutes. And I was like— and that was the turning point in my career of like, you know, there were no fucks given after that of like, this is all icing on the cake. Like, this is something that I was done with. I hated watching football in 2016. I want to get away from it. So in 2017, when I made that decision, I think that's more of like when my personality started to come out in interviews and in different things, because it was like, this is all just icing on the cake. I was never supposed to be here anyway. And I really enjoyed the back half of my career because of that.

What year was that for you? How far in did you come to that realization?

That was after year 12. So 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 after that.

Yeah. And you had already signed two big contracts at that point prior.

I signed a big contract in Buffalo, yep, and that was the first time that I was cut. That was year— year 8 was the first time I got cut from a team, um, even though I had been on a couple different teams. And then 2016 was just like a one-year deal with the Jets, but it was like a contract squabble all offseason. Wasn't around the team, just— it was a gross situation. But yeah, I was, I was also like financially, there was some freedom there to where I felt good about it as well.

That's crazy to think about. You played 12 years at that point and like had unbelievable seasons, signed big contracts, starter, the man. Like, was it when you— I'm so curious. I didn't, I don't even know this story. Like when you went down to Tampa and then obviously you're thinking you're going to be the backup, you get thrust back in, but it is kind of on, I don't know if it was this rock bottom the year before.

You know, with the Jets? Dude, rock bottom.

Like, but then, like, because that's this, like, that, I mean, the Fitz magic comes out.

That's a tough place. That's a tough place to have a rock bottom year. All right. They're not very gentle in the tri-state area.

Yeah, they're not. But you know what? I, like, I, I say though, like, 2015 was a great year and I took advantage of that one too. I was courtside at the Knicks games.

Oh yeah.

You know, like the whole deal. So I lived it up the year before and really enjoyed it and got to bring my boys to different sporting events and things in the garden. And so, yeah, but it was, it was not a very good place to have a bad season, that's for sure.

I'm fascinated. You know, I think you'll forever be remembered as the quarterback that never slid, right? Did you play like that at Harvard? You took some absolute shots, got up. I mean, you know, you couldn't help but love you if you're an offensive lineman, senior quarterback. Not sliding, taking the hit, getting up, and you never celebrated. All right, no big deal. So were you always like that or did you?

Yeah, I always played the game that way, but I also think, and I don't, I mean, Alex, you could comment on this. Like when I look at somebody like Jackson Dart, right? And people are always talking, oh, the guy doesn't slide. He doesn't, he does so many amazing things though. And a comment that he had that my whole career is the same way I thought. It's like, if I slide versus if I go head first, like, that's an extra 2.5 yards for my team. So, like, and I, I honestly think there's a technique to it to where it's just as safe. Like, I, I felt uncomfortable sliding where I felt really comfortable diving head first. And there's an art to being able to avoid hits. And yeah, every now and again you're gonna put your shoulder down or put your head down and try to run somebody over, but those aren't— I wasn't trying to run over Ray Lewis, you know. I saw a DB out there that was 170 pounds, and like, you pick and choose your battles on who you're going to try to hit. But, uh, I think there's an art to it, and I don't, I don't think that like a guy like Jaxson Dart, that's a big part of who he is and what he does. And so to— for you to say like, oh, you gotta slide every time, like, there's also an energy that he brings, and he brings it for a particular reason, like you were hitting on. Those linemen love watching him play because of the way he plays the game. So he's got to pick and choose his battles better. But like, I don't, I always love that part of it for sure.

I couldn't agree more. Ryan, what do you think is, you know, Alex has talked about this a lot of like finding a quarterback is such a hard thing in the NFL, right? And it's like studied by so many people, but like you still can't perfectly articulate like what is it that makes somebody great? Because you have people like you who are low draft picks who have 17-year amazing careers. You have people that are high draft picks who don't make it. And there's still like a mystery to it. And so as someone who was actually like overlooked in high school, kind of overlooked when you were drafted, but ended up having an amazing career, what do people miss on what makes a great long-term quarterback in the NFL that you or Alex like understand better?

Well, first of all, I think I feel like they're getting, they're getting better at it, but just the— still the big thing is like infrastructure. I mean, these teams are all picking high for a reason because they're not very good. And so you get thrown into these situations where there's not an infrastructure around you to be successful. And so, I mean, I think you look at some of these teams and the way they're put together, they're starting to understand that a little bit better. And even if you look at— I think Sam Darnold right now is the classic case, right, of a guy that went to the Jets. They were horrible when he got drafted there, I think third overall, uh, didn't play very well. There was a lot that was put on his shoulders and he wasn't ready for it. And then the smartest thing that he did was he said, I'm gonna have the humility to take a step back and I'm gonna go be a backup and I'm gonna go to San Francisco. And the amount that he learned from Brock Purdy and from Kyle Shanahan and from just being around it It was really important for him to take that step back, and then you can make a calculated move as to where you're going. Who's got great infrastructure? Minnesota's got great infrastructure. I'll go there and surround myself with it and have a great season. I think what Minnesota learned this year was that they probably underappreciated Sam a little bit with how talented he was. But again, you know, you look at the landscape of it and Sam goes to Seattle. And they've got a great defense, they've got a great running game. He's got a bona fide number one receiver. Um, and he's a guy that's just wiser. So like, he was never going to be successful in New York, and part of it was he wasn't ready, and he'll tell you that he didn't play well, but part of it was the infrastructure around him. So I think teams are realizing how important an offensive line is and putting somebody in a stable situation, because it's really hard. To be out there and thrown to the wolves and to say, okay, go ahead and survive. And that's something I feel like I did a better job of as I got older because I had the experience. I love being in those situations. But to throw a kid fresh out of college into these situations where there's zero chance of being successful and just beat them down and beat down their confidence, I think that's one of the biggest issues with developing quarterbacks right now.

Ryan, how important do you think it is Like, and I'm so interested who this, who maybe there's a couple of them that were this for you. Like, I remember the first, like, I, you know, I played right away. The two QBs my rookie year, I've said this, had like a combined one start. So like, it was like several years until I got to see like up close what an NFL quarterback looks like.

Right.

And, and I remember like, even when I did, like some of the guys I played with in like a great quarterback room, like Sean Hill was like unbelievable for me, like watching J.T.O. Sullivan play, like these guys that like they played so fast. They got the ball like turned loose on time. And I remember you'd be on the sideline and it looked very different. And it was like aha moment for me to like see it up close and personal, like how fast guys processed, how quickly they played, how much anticipation they played with, right? Like, oh, that's what this looks like.

You know, it's funny though, because when you say that, when you say those names, like people brush it off, it's never going to be the hot topic because those aren't sexy names. But like, those are dudes where you're like, you know, you— and I'll speak for you, like, talent-wise, you have so much more talent than those guys. So to be able to watch those two process like they did and to have some success, even though they're not as well-known as a lot of other guys, pretty, pretty awesome to see. And I— for me, like, Gus Farah, when I was younger, more so the off-the-field stuff, having a family in the NFL, managing some of that, He was a huge mentor to me when I was in St. Louis. But when I got to Cincinnati, Carson Palmer, he was, he was everything for me. Just watching him on a day-to-day basis, like Carson was who I wanted to be. I, you know, he had more talent in his pinky finger than I ever had. But the way that people looked at him, I mean, dude, he— you want to talk about throwing a go ball, like, oh my God. Like I got to practice and I was like, I don't belong in this league. Like that's what a quarterback's supposed to look at, look like. Like that is not me. But it was for him, it was the leadership stuff with him. It was how guys looked at him, how they revered him, how he treated everybody as equals, even though he was the, you know, number one first overall pick, the Heisman winner, all those things, how tough he was, how he never made excuses. Like Carson for me was. Was probably the most influential in terms of that's the dude that I want to be like because I want my teammates to look at me the way that they look at him.

Carson, I think, just won his first state championship, if I'm not mistaken.

I heard, uh, won the state title.

Shout out, shout out, shout out. I mean, yeah, no surprise.

But Ryan, it's cool, man. You talk about mentors in unlikely places, like Gus Farhat family in the NFL.

That's cool.

I, you know, the, the barbell that you just laid out of like the different places where you found mentorship or inspiration.

That's pretty special.

Yeah.

How about, so when we were in St. Louis, Gus Fratt was buddies with Keith Kachuk. I grew up loving Keith Kachuk, Captain Coyote. And so we went over to Keith's house and he had these two little whippersnappers, Matthew and Brady Kachuk, playing stickball in the basement as little kids. And then it's like you're watching the Olympics, watching these kids go. I mean, it is really, really cool. You know, I mean, they were probably 4 at the time, 4 and 6 or something when I had first met them. But cool to see them going to—

Dude, I'll tell you something just as a digression. The reason that resonated with me so much is like there are 2 things I remember like so clearly in my career, like I never played any professional sports, but it's so crazy. This guy is actually literally calling right now. But one, I went to Carl Eschenbach's house. Carl is just the CEO of Workday and he's like a business legend. Amazing dude. And I went to his house a few years ago. And I noticed he was like serving us pizzas from his pizza oven. And his 16-year-old twin daughters were with— were hanging out with us. And it wasn't because they want— they had to, they just wanted to. They were— they liked their parents. And they were like around when we were like having dinner there. And I was like, man, this guy has the best life. I don't care about his business career. Like the fact that his kids, when they're teenagers, want to be around him. And they want to be around their parents. Like, I was like, this guy has got it. And it's the same like mentorship thing that you mentioned of like finding it and learning from it. And then this guy, Scott Nutter, who I really look up to at KKR, I remember one time he was in some meeting and someone was acting like he was important and he was like, "Look, man, I was changing diapers this morning. Don't worry about it." He has 5 kids. And that same lesson for me of that's what I admired, these guys who had families and it was important to them and they still had cool careers. So, I really appreciate what you just said.

You know what I was thinking about? 2 days ago, I was thinking about this as well because my neighbor, uh, two doors down, he had a wedding in his backyard. His son got married in the backyard. And I was thinking, like, even, you know, whether we're going to have our kids get married in our backyard or not, if they want to get married in our backyard, like, I feel like that means you're doing something right, you know? If your kids love you enough to want to come back to be around it, like— so that, that made me think of that story, Shane.

My kids are getting married at Bruin Lake. That's where the Gupta boys are going to have their weddings. Just get ready to host.

I love it.

I love it. So you have 7 children. All right. I'm sure you have a couple of athletes in there. What have you taken from your career that you've tried to instill in them that they probably ignore? Like they ignore me and they ignore Alex and the Gupta boys still, they still listen to Robbie, but they're going to ignore him very soon too.

Yeah, we don't know anything. You know what? So a little bit unique in that when I was playing, my boys, like my son is, I guess my last year in the league, my oldest son was a freshman in high school. But growing up, like I always kind of wanted to be hands-off in football because I didn't want to pressure them. I didn't want them to feel the shadow of that. And so I always coached them in basketball. I was always like head coach in basketball and then I would always help out in baseball. But I just feel like basketball with my boys and my girls, everybody is, you know, we're, my girls all play soccer, my boys, they played kind of everything. But basketball's one of those sports, like no matter your talent level, like as long as you hustle and you play hard, like you're gonna have a role on a team. And so I always try to pull all these kids into a second sport, which is basketball. Because everybody's focusing so young. And so like my daughters with soccer, it's hilarious the first few practices to get these girls that have only played with their feet to pick up a basketball and try to dribble and shoot. And but aggressiveness works in every sport, you know, it does. So it does, it certainly does. But I, I love coaching my kids. I just, I've shied away from my older boys with football. My youngest is now 7, and now that I'm a little bit more removed from football, I think I'll probably be a little bit more involved in his football career if he wants to go that way. But it's really fun. Being a coach for your kids is fun, not just trying to instill all these lessons in them, but also getting to meet their friends and hang out and have an excuse to be there for an hour or two with them and see who their friends are and how they interact. So that's what I've really enjoyed about it.

Is there one thing that you try to teach each of your kids from your, from your career that was really important?

So like my, my older, my two oldest boys are old enough, I think, to kind of understand. I made it real clear late in my career to my coaches that like my boys were going to come down the locker room with me no matter what, like after a game, to be able to experience the wins, the losses, just to be able to feel a locker room after the game, how much effort gets put into a game, how it's okay to lose knowing that you put everything you had into it. Like those are just things that are really hard to teach and show them. And so that was always really important to me as I got later into my career. But to me, it's like the, the effort and the determination. Those are the two things that I want to make sure that always instilled in all of my kids, you know, because those are things that don't take any talent because it's— I don't know how you guys are, man. Arizona right now, the sports scene, high school sports. Holy crap. These kids are so talented. It is ridiculous, man. So just, just putting in effort and determination to everything you do. I think that translates to a lot of different things in life.

I can feel you on like the determination. And for me, I kind of think of mindset, right? Like the thing I want in my kids, especially, you know, my son playing football. I'm the same with you. I'm so worried about like the expectations that we could bring, right? Like I didn't, you and I didn't grow up with those kinds of expectations when we played football. We just liked, you know, we liked the physicality. We liked, you know, being the QB. And then both had these kind of unexpected journeys. But you, I think, if anything, like, I so envy how you played the game, dude. Like, we talk a lot about playing free, right? Like, we talk a lot about, like, that fearlessness. And it's hard as the stages get bigger, right? And expectations get bigger, and you're the starting quarterback, and like, you go out there and like, there's a lot of lives dependent on you making sound decisions and being good with the football, right? And like, it can lead to guarding, and it can lead to like doubt and You though, like, have always played with this fearlessness, man. And it's like, it's amazing to see in person, right? Like, have you, have you always had that? Where did that come from?

If—

does that make sense?

You know, like, yeah, like, Alex, I think I had a— like, Chan Gailey was a really special coach for me, and I had him in 3 different stops. I had him— he was a head coach in Buffalo, was out when I was there, and then he was in New York. He was the OC with the Jets, and he— one of the years he was the OC in Miami when I was there. I think the thing that he unlocked in me was he trusted me and he would put a lot on my plate, you know, during a week or, you know, even during a game. And so the trust that he put in me, I never wanted to let him down. And so preparation was always paramount. But like preparing during the week and doing all these things and going into a game, like I felt like I could always play free because I gave it everything I had throughout the week. There was a particular look that I wanted to get something versus, or there's a signal that I was working on with Brandon Marshall, or whatever it was. Um, I, I just, I felt like the preparation during the week is what set up, uh, me to be able to go out and play freely, um, on a Sunday. And so Chan was a guy that believed in his players. He wanted his players to not have these constraints on them. Stevie Johnson was a receiver, if you remember him, that like really flourished under Chan. Because he gave him the freedom to just kind of be. So like we would be in 3x1 formations and I would just give Stevie the you-do-you route. What did that mean? I didn't know what the hell he was going to do. Maybe it was a slant route, maybe it was a hitch, maybe it was a go. It was like whatever he felt good about running versus the DB we ran against. Now we would talk about it during the week, this leverage, you know, press off. These are the things I'm expecting. But Chan Gailey was a coach that really freed me up. And I think freed up a lot of players that played for him with that mindset mentality.

Did he, would he kill you for mistakes?

Sorry.

You know what I'm saying? So many NFL coaches do, I feel like, and then that's what like leads to like, you know, hey, we can't turn the ball over. We can't do this. We don't do that. You know, and then that leads to that style of play, you know.

He was a very loving coach, certainly demanding, but You know, we put a lot of work into it during the week. And so it was a lot of times it was like, you know, I'm okay with this result. Give me the reasoning for it. We'll talk about it before it happens in a game. And so that part of it, it was never like the second guess. It was like, coach, we talked about this. I said like versus this guy in this situation, like the back shoulder fade is where I want to go. And, you know, let's say it was Revis and he turns around and picks it off, like, You know, it sucks and I didn't want it to happen, but, uh, you know, this is something that we felt pretty good about going into the game. And guess what? Next time we get the ball, I'm going to try the same thing because I'm a little bit crazy. Um, sometimes it works, sometimes you do it. Had fun doing it.

Do you guys think that the same style— like, I guess for all three of you guys, I guess my intuition is that basically the coach has to coach the man, not like their own style, right? Like it you know, so Chan Gailey should be different with Batty A than he is with you, Ryan, than he is with you, Alex. I'm curious, though, because you're— Ryan, you're kind of describing like a style that Chan Gailey had that is more sort of belief-based. How much of it do you think changes person by person versus kind of like the coach having an approach that works with everyone? Because like, you know what I'm saying? Because like, I'm trying to figure out whether— how to, how to take the leadership lesson from Yeah, I—

there's just a lot of different styles. I think that style is maybe a little more prevalent now than it used to be. But I also played for Bill O'Brien and loved playing for Bill O'Brien, um, and he was the New England style, which was like, this is what we're gonna do and everybody's going to fit into exactly what we're going to do, or else you're not going to be here. And so I think part of it with the organizations is like, you have to realize what step or what phase the organization's in, because there's a lot of these places that need to be rebuilt from the bottom up. And so, uh, to have that tight structure, I think, is really important. But for me, I guess the most important thing for a coach to have is consistency. I just want you to be consistent with your messaging every day, just so I know exactly where I stand. And I think guys respect and appreciate that. You can't waver depending on who you're talking to or depending on the day or depending if you're winning or losing because inevitably, it's going to be like this. And, if you're not consistent with your message, it's very easy to lose a locker room.

Let's talk about your transition. I think you're one of the best analysts on television, Amazon Prime Thursday nights. You look like you're having a good time. Let's put it that way, every single day. How did you know it was time to move on other than it would be your 18th year? And, how did you think about the phase of your life?

Shane, I got so lucky, man. I really did. I mean, if you just look at my, my life, my career, and now my post-playing career, like, you just— I've been put in very fortunate situations. So like, I, I got hurt in Washington. I, I talked to Alex a lot about this when I got hurt, just trying to figure out what the heck I was going to do, um, because the DEA raided the, uh, Commander's facility while I was rehabbing there. But anyway, that's a story for another day.

I don't know, Ryan, that might be a story for today.

I mean, Alex and I have stories for days on that kind of stuff, but so it's like I hurt my hip and that was the first time it was like my own mortality. I probably would have played forever and hurt my hip and just decided that that was going to be it and I was going to move on to something else. Well, it just so happened that that was the year that Amazon bought the Thursday Night Football package., and they needed, uh, 4 analysts for their pre-half and post-game show. And so they gave me a call, and I was like, I guess— I mean, I love the NFL, I love football, I want to stay in it somehow. And so they— Tony Gonzalez had been doing it for a while, and then they hired me, Richard Sherman, and Andrew Whitworth, who had never done any TV. Like, maybe Sherm had done a little bit, but we were all fresh off the field. Had no idea what the hell we were doing. Like, that— the first few, looking back at the first few shows that we did are just so funny. Like, we still don't know how to banter when we come on the screen. But I, I think much like my playing career, like, I— you love the people you're doing it with. And it's not just like the on-screen talent, it's all the people behind the scenes. We love the people we're working with. We travel every week, which is actually really fun to get dinners Wednesday nights and to be around each other and explore these cities on Thursdays, and then just to feel like the atmosphere and the intensity of the games on Thursday nights. Uh, we truly have become like a, a team and a family, and, uh, it's something that I really, really enjoy. And every single day, just think about how fortunate I am to have fallen into such a great situation.

In some ways, you're like the most qualified, I think, to talk about the game. And in some ways, like, if you wanted to be a GM or something too, just like, again, to have started games for 9 organizations, right, to lead 9 different locker rooms, and you've been— obviously you've talked about, like, you've been the man, you've been the backup, you've been the mentor, right? And all these things. I think you more than anybody in some ways are qualified. Like, what does it take to— like, could you tell, like, culture right away? How do you build culture, right? Like, who are the culture carriers? Sorry, I know there's a lot here. I also, I'm like fascinated and I want to get this in because I talk to these guys a lot about the QB room, right? And like how amazing or miserable it could be depending on the couple guys in there, right? And like at some point I want to hear, I know it's like picking your favorite child, but just like the most memorable quarterback room you had.

That's a, yeah. I think, well, for the first kind of question, I think to start off, like, the— and being part of a team, I think you've got to have buy-in from everybody, and everybody's got to care about it. And I think that was the easy part of it right away, was that we all really cared about the game, uh, we all respected each other's perspectives, and I think one of the other keys that you just see some people fall into this trap of, like, we are not bigger than the game. We are here, like, to talk about it and present it, but it is never about us. And I think sometimes when I watch some of these other shows, that's what it becomes a little bit. And that's something that I always want to try to avoid. That being said, like, when we're in our postgame, there's plenty of, like, shenanigans and goofy things that go on, but, like, when we're, you know, talking before the game, when we're talking at halftime, we're talking to the players that come on our set afterwards, like it is all about them and celebrating them and this wonderful game. And I think keeping that at the forefront of things is really important for us. But I also just think we have so many people that really genuinely care about the NFL and the product and talking about it and love watching it.. And so I think that's where it all starts for us. Um, the quarterback room stuff, I don't— I could probably write a book on all the different characters that I've been, been around through the days, Alex.

First of all, like, Alex talks about the quarterback room. I, you know, I imagine it's like a, it's like a well, uh, decorated room. It's different than like the, the O-line room. I think, I think of this like, like this grungy, like bad lighting, like, like Bumpy tables. You're wrong. You're wrong. The quarterback— the quarterback table, you know, fresh fruit on the plate, you know, and just carpet, you know, some carpet, you know, a lot of sophistication. So I mean, that's the— that's the picture I get from the quarterback.

Am I wrong? Fresh flowers. Let me just say you're wrong about the O-line room because they've got vets and rookies, and a lot of times the vets are making the rookies decorate it for Christmas, uh, just making sure it's festive. Like, those guys, I always love hanging out in the O-line room because, uh, they've got a wide cast of characters in those rooms. The quarterback room, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's like sometimes the head coach spends a lot of time in the quarterback room, sometimes the OC is always in the quarterback room, sometimes it's just a quarterback coach. Um, so that dynamic, depending on the power structure of like who's in there all the time, You certainly sit up a little bit straighter in your chair depending on who's in there. But it's a huge support system. And there just aren't many people that can even fathom what you're going through on a week-to-week basis. It's so up and down in the NFL, you know, the triumphs and the failures and the great times and the struggles. It's just, there aren't many people that you can sit back and talk to about those things. That can really relate to what you're going through. And so when I was not the starter, that was always number one, was how can I be of great support to whoever the starter is? How can I lend an ear? You know, sometimes how can I be the middleman or the conduit if it was a younger guy and he's afraid to talk to the head coach or isn't sure how to, you know, manage that relationship? Um, so it, it's, it's a really important room. You end up spending so much time together and you certainly, there's got to be some shenanigans and fun because it's, it's too hard of a game and it's, there's just too much that goes on. So I was always kind of the shenanigans ringleader as well. But, uh, yeah, everything you do is in support of whoever that starter is at the time.

Ryan, for you, was it seamless going from, you know, NFL player to ex-NFL player in terms of like your own, just like— I don't know, family life, all that. Shane has talked about this, Alex has talked about this. Like, athletes, you guys go through like a professional change much earlier than most people do, and a pretty significant one. And you have an amazing seat now, but how—

like, was it hard, you know, when you retired and weren't going to play anymore? So I think it gave me— the TV thing gave me a really soft landing. I think that's helped because I still have a schedule during the season. You know, I'm still leaving, whether it's on Tuesday or Wednesday, to get to the city. I'm still getting home on Friday. You know, I've got to do— I tell my wife, we got to watch games all Sunday. I'm sorry, this is my job now. So like, we just sit up in my bar and me and the boys and watch games, you know, from sunup to sundown. But that— to have a structure like schedule during the season, I think really helps. And then part of it for me too was football was always really important for me when I was in it. But the most important thing for me always was my family. And so that also allowed for a soft landing a little bit in that now dad's home a little bit more and you know how it goes, like during the season sometimes you're home, but you're not home. Your mind is not home, you know, and you try to leave everything at the office. Like, I always try to be, you know, at work as long as I needed to be. I never brought my playbook home, like the back half of my career. I always left it at work because I never wanted to. That was like a symbol to like never bring it home to work. But it's, it's on your mind, you know, when you're going through the good times and the bad times. So just to be more like emotionally available for my family as well. But to have that relationship and the kids, and it's almost like when you come back and after the season ends and you have to like fit yourself into your family because your wife's been running the ship where you've been off doing other things. And so there's always that reintroduction period where I gotta figure out where I fit in. But yeah, the structure and the schedule of having something else really helps.

When I retired, Ryan, my favorite story, I was just around a lot more. And to your point, you gotta ease your way in. And one day my wife in her infinite wisdom went over to the wall and tapped it and said, you know, it's really amazing that these walls are still standing after 13 years of your NBA career being gone every week. Like, I just don't know how the walls of our house are still up without your suggestions, without your leadership in this household. So I said, Pretty good. Pretty good.

Yeah. You learn to keep your mouth shut. Why do we do it this way?

And don't ask those questions. No. Ryan, you've played for a bunch of head coaches, right? Like looking back at them, who, who, who were one or two that jumped out to you? Why were they great at what they did? You know, obviously leading men, trying to get people to be selfless in a professional atmosphere.

And how did they do it? The first coach I ever had was Mike Martz, and he ended up getting sick during that season, so he was there for the beginning of it. But I say with him, he— it was a nice introduction to the NFL because he scared the living daylights out of me every single day. Like, he would mumble the play call, you know, just to make sure you're really on it and to make sure you knew it. And I'm walking into St. Louis like, this is the the kind of the end of the greatest show on turf. Kurt Warner's not there anymore. Mark Bolger was the guy, but Mike Martz was there for all of it, and this was his last year. But the demands that he put on the quarterback and just the fear that he put into me every single day of the studying and everything I put into it just to not be embarrassed in front of my peers the next day. And lo and behold, every day he would embarrass me. You know, he'd throw me out of the huddle. He— I was battling for the third spot with Jeff Smoker. So he would, he would bring me in and it'd be, you know, Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce and Marshall Falk in the huddle. And he would like whisper the play call to me and I only hear half of it. And Isaac and Torrey have been in this offense for 8, 9, 10 years. And Orlando Pace is looking at me for the call and I can't get it out.

And he's like, you went to Harvard?

Get out of the huddle. You can't even call a play. And so like, I, you know, at the time it wasn't funny, but now it's like looking back on it, it was like that made me so much better because every single night, like I was studying until I would fall asleep because he made sure that I knew that it was that important to just call stupid play and walk through. There's a lot of them though. I mentioned Bill O'Brien. I mentioned Chan Gailey as two guys. Marvin Lewis. Was a great leader. I really enjoyed him. Brian Flores was an interesting one. I really, I really like Brian. And I think, you know, Brian probably learned some lessons as with his stint in Miami. And I think he'll be a head coach again at some point. And then a guy like Ron Rivera, the short time with him, but I really enjoyed Ron. Mike Munchak was another guy. Mike Munchak, when I was in Tennessee, is an interesting one. This is a Hall of Fame college football player, Hall of Fame professional football player. Then a head coach, and you just, you know, a guy that walks around, there's a certain gravity to him when he walks into a room, just to have the instant respect. Mike Vrabel, when I was in Houston, was a linebacker coach. Mike's the same way right now. He's been there, done that. He's got the instant respect of the guys. Those are the ones that when they walk into a room and everybody straightens up a little bit, because they want to hear what you have to say, those are some of the best coaches I've had.

And I'm sure you've had some less than great coaches as well. I mean, after 17 years, we don't need to get into that. There are always two sides of it. So you've learned what great coaches do, what great coaches don't do, or bad coaches do, right?

Yeah, but it goes back to consistency is huge. Like, that's all we want. We want you to give us a consistent message. And whether you're a player's coach or an asshole, like, if you come in the same way every day and demand the same thing from the first guy on the roster to the 53rd guy on the roster, like, you're going to be okay. Just start with that. And I've gotten to know Sean McVay a little bit the last few years. Oh my God. First of all, the energy of that guy, just like a— I mean, any conversation, you're just trying to get a word in. With everything that he's spitting out, but you can tell there's a conviction and a passion in everything that he does. And with that, you're going to win the locker room over right away.

I got a question about the great receivers you've played. Now, you know, Alex often talks about how every alpha number one receiver comes back to the huddle, says, I was open, I was open, I was open. Looking back at your career, give us a true number of how often your alphas were actually open and you missed it?

Well, it's hard because some of the guys, like Brandon Marshall is a great example, okay, of a guy you want to talk about, the alpha of all alphas at receiver. But he also was a guy that even when he wasn't open, if you threw him the ball, he'd catch it. So then it was like, oh, like, I love that he's making these plays for me, but he's right. Like, oh, I'm open. Give me the ball. Well, no, you weren't. But yes, he is, because he can jump over guys and he's 6'5", 235 pounds. Um, but the problem is some of the guys, especially when they're young, they don't know any better. The problem with a guy like Brandon Marshall is he's the smartest receiver I ever played with. And so, Alex, if he's like on the backside running an in-cut versus cover 2, and you know, you check it down, you know, and he's like, dude, what are you doing? And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, that ball's supposed to go to me. Like, you're supposed to hit that back hitch, and like, the guy, the hook player is playing low. Like, that's a throw to me. I'm expecting when I make— I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, yeah, you're too smart for your own good, Brandon. Like, here we go. But, um, it's, it's like a— it's a blessing and a curse with some of these guys that are so talented, and you want to get them the ball as much as possible. But, uh, you know, sometimes it can turn into a detriment for the team too with the attitude and those type things. So that's why I think some of these receivers you see towards the tail end of their career, even if the productivity is still high, they're on a team for a year or two and then they go somewhere else. Productivity's still high, they wear their welcome out, you know, after 1 or 2 years they'll move on to somewhere else. But as long as you can catch them in their best behavior, um, then it's, it's usually a good return.

After a while you, you kind of just tune them out, right? Because it's every, it's every throw, right? I mean, it's every snap Every game, every week, they're chirping at you. So after a while, you just kind of like, all right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got to block them out, right? Yeah. You know what though? It's like you got to play the game because you got to make sure that they're still loved, right? Like, oh yeah, dude, I wanted to get you the ball. We wanted to hit the flat route. We wanted to get the swing route involved just to get a touch to the running back. So yeah, sometimes I'm just lying out my ass like, oh, the coach told me to do it. Yeah, this is bullshit, man.

But yeah, you got to string them along to make sure they're still playing hard too. Ryan, on the, on the guys like Brandon Marshall who are, you know, like that level of smart, did they always see it? Did they always see the field like they always saw it and then it's just like enhanced through work? Or is it— do you see them saying— are these guys who were like that, are they savants to start out and sort of like understanding the game and then it's enhanced by a ton of hard work? Or is it like, no, like they're just like anyone else when they start, but they just study it and study it and study it. You know what I'm saying?

I'm trying to figure that part out. I think that's a good question. I think Brandon has always just had that IQ. Like he was always, just always made sense to him. Now I think there's other guys, it certainly is a learnable skill. There's other guys where they have to figure it out. I think it's the amazing thing right now with all these young guys coming up into the league at the wide receiver position, and maybe it's from all the 7-on-7 and all the things that are going on at a younger age, but They all seem to have a really good understanding at what it takes to be an NFL receiver. And I think a guy like JSN— I mean, it's all the guys that come out of Ohio State, but JSN's such a good example of maybe he's not the most physically imposing guy, but just the understanding he has and how to play the position. It's not always at full speed. Um, you know, I talked to Sam Darnold, we had him for a Thursday night game, and he's like, he just— from the, the first time I ever threw him a football, I knew, uh, that he just— we were going to be on the same page because he just had a great understanding for space and speed, uh, and understanding zones and areas and being able to win versus man coverage. So there are certainly guys that just have it, but I do think a lot of these young receivers are now learning it at a younger age and coming into the NFL more polished.

Robby, I think all the great ones, I don't know whether or not they've learned it or always had it, but they have the capability, right? Like, I mean, I've told you guys this, like I was lucky enough to play with Randy at the end of his career. Like he saw coverages better than I did. Like, and to like Ryan's point, like he knew when he was getting the ball, right? Like he knew what routes, what play call we had on. And like, I think those were oftentimes you could see him like if he wasn't running his hardest, he's like, well, I'm not getting the ball here. I know that, right? And then like vice versa, like when he knew the rock was coming, it was like, dude, it was all gas. I think the thing that I struggle with like early on in my career is like I did like with some of these players, the receivers I came back, they would have this mentality is I didn't play the game well enough as a young player because Shane and Ryan, I'd love to hear your point on this. By the back half of my career, I didn't, I'm not sure. I didn't want to play with a guy who didn't want the ball every play, if that makes sense, right? Like I wanted, like there was a mentality, I think, to be a great receiver, a mindset. And you better think you're open every play and you better think you can get open every play, right? Like I kind of wanted that towards the whole back half of my career, but on the front end of my career, I struggled with guys coming in and on the sidelines and on the practice field. Playing that game. But again, I think it wasn't until it shifted, like, no, no, I want the dog. I want the guy that's like, this is a bad dude and he thinks he's bad, you know?

But it's also like the older you get, the more comfortable you get with some of these guys. The thing that I couldn't stand, even if they wanted the ball, was like the body language, right? You don't get the ball. I, you know, I played when I was in Houston. It was kind of the, it's kind of the changing of the guard from Andre Johnson to DeAndre Hopkins. Right. So just picture that I've got Hall of Famer Andre Johnson on one side and young up-and-comer DeAndre Hopkins on the other side. And DeAndre's in his second year, I think. There's a safety in the middle of the field. It's man coverage. And I'm throwing a go route. So like Andre knows if he's not getting the ball, it's because in my mind, I'm like, I would much rather throw to DeAndre Hopkins. And if DeAndre doesn't get the throw, he knows, well, it's man coverage. He's just throwing it to Andre. And so as a quarterback, it's a great problem to have. But you sit there sometimes and you're like, well, shit, I haven't— you know, Andre doesn't have a ball yet. And yeah, who do I throw? You're going through these mental gymnastics of— but Andre is one of the greatest receivers I ever played with and was a complete team player, was a competitor, but never showed it, never did the exasperation, never tried to show up a quarterback on the sideline. Those are the guys that you really come to love and appreciate. Mike Evans is also that way, where like Mike was going to do everything he could, uh, you know, for you as a receiver, but he was never going to show you up on the field. And so I think that's when you run into problems as a quarterback, when you have the guys that all of a sudden want to show you up and want to make sure that it's known, you know, that they didn't get the ball and that it's your fault. And that's when you run into problems, not just quarterback-wide receiver problems, but greater problems with the team as well.

Alex, did you know who had the catches in the games?

Did you always keep a mental tally of, okay— I want for like all, like Revi, you included, but like everybody listening, the best part of what Ryan just explained is that this happens in about, I mean, the play call comes in, right? You call the play in the huddle, you get, you know, in your head, you've studied, right? So like, What's the situation? I don't even know. Is it third down? Is it, are we losing? Are we winning? First quarter, fourth quarter? Like all that stuff is already, these inputs are like in your brain, right? And then you break the huddle and you get up to the line and then it's like, then it gets presented with man. And all of this thought process that Ryan just went through happened in about 2 seconds.

Right.

And you're like, oh shit. You know, he doesn't have a catch.

Oh shit.

He does. Oh, it's this matchup. Or should I go here?

Should I go there?

Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like you're dealing with all of these inputs and weighing them in like fractions of a second. And then, oh yeah, snap the ball and throw a completion or try, you know what I'm saying?

Like it just— And Ray Lewis running at you.

Yeah.

And oh, by the way, did he win on the fade? Oh, now shit.

Oh shit.

Now I got to throw a back shoulder because he didn't win over the top.

You know what I'm saying? Like, well, that's what I was saying. Like last year with Stafford, just thinking about, you know, the Davante Adams and Puka. And it's like, Puka is so amazing, but Davante is such a smart, savvy receiver too. And it's like, If he's throwing to Puka and not Davante, like, you know, it plays into it a little bit where Davante is like, all right, he chose Puka 3 times in a row over me. Oh my gosh. You know, but that all the inner workings of a team, man, trying to figure all that stuff out.

I think honestly, I would say there's, you know, so much I've learned about football, obviously from Alex. But if you truly gave me like the number one thing, it would actually just be the amount of things that are happening at once and the intelligence level required at each position. On the field, like that as someone who like, I never played football, you know what I'm saying, growing up. And so I've only ever watched. And just like the, the amount of processing required at each position to be excellent is actually quite different than I think that people who didn't play understand, you know what I'm saying? And I think that I joke with Alex that I actually struggle when I play Madden against my kids, because there's too much fucking going on to like make good decisions each time. And I'm laughing, I'm like, This is a video game, you know, and I think that that, Alex, is something that you and, you know, Ryan, obviously what you just said, and now you're factoring in the emotional part of it. Forget about like the teammate part, just like there is a lot happening at every moment in decision-making. And now you factor in like, oh, you also need to like be like a Battier-level teammate as the quarterback of like get everybody involved. Like a point guard naturally does this in basketball, like who needs the touch, all that. Shane, obviously you did. That anyway, even from your position, and you would do it without even touching the ball sometimes. But that's probably— that was new news for me in football. It was just like how much stuff is going on at once.

And I think— I actually think that's one of the positives we always talk about with youth sports, like specialization, and it's just frustrating and annoying. And but I do think with this trickle-down effect of like how serious sports have become at such a young age, The IQ of a lot of these guys when they enter into college or when they enter into the NFL is much higher than it's ever been. I think that, that's probably an effect of how much people are playing at a young age. But whether it's in basketball or football, I mean, these guys coming in, just the intelligence it takes, like you were just hinting at, to be able to do some of these things and to do them at such a young age is really impressive to see.

You've had some like epic runs in your career. Like, well, I'm talking like heaters. Like, I mean, when it is like can't miss, right? Like the NFL records you hold, you know, in the stretches you've gone where it's just like on fire, right? Literally on fire. Like the, you know, back in the day, like he's heating up. But like, With that comes the opposite, right? Like the troughs, the times like when it's not clicking and seems like everything it can't get right. Like in those moments, like what— I'm so interested, like how do you try to get back? Like when doubt creeps in, like how do you try to, you know what I'm saying? Like what do you do in those moments when it's not firing?

Yeah, I think for me, looking back at my career, it's like the biggest thing that I always chased that I was never able to achieve was just like that ultimate consistency, you know, and you could point to certain times, you know, 3-game stretches or 4-game stretches that were great, but inevitably it would come crashing down and it would just be a roller coaster. It's hard, I think, with like facing adversity and going up, going through the ups and downs, like you always have to have a true belief in yourself and what you're doing. In order to not lose confidence in yourself. And I think the biggest thing for me was like, I just, I was always fearful when I was having a bad stretch or a bad run that like my teammates were going to lose confidence in me. That was, that was always the biggest thing. Like, how do I make sure that they still trust, believe, and love me? Um, and so that was something I was always trying to be real cognizant of, but it's It's hard, man. It's hard when you go through a bad stretch because it's really lonely. We talked about the quarterback room, but it's like, you know, when you're losing football games— and a lot of winning and losing football games in the NFL can be pinned on the quarterback— uh, it can get awful lonely. So strong support system and having an ultimate belief in yourself. But that was always my biggest fear. Do these guys not believe in me anymore? And how do I get them to believe in me? Because I am— Alex, if we talk about all these wonderful records, I'm the only quarterback in NFL in history to have a game where I had 6 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. And I think this one might have been versus you, 0 touchdowns and 6 interceptions.

So hey, I honestly mean this, I was there. One of the gutsiest things I've ever seen, man. One of the gutsiest things I've ever seen, honestly. Um, unbelievable, bro. Again, I feel like we could talk to you all day. Uh, the last question we ask all our guests, again, this is called Blue Guys, right? Like, we celebrate glue people, the people that make teams go and like what they are, like the culture carriers. And you obviously are like the ultimate glue guy. Um, who are the glue people in your life, right? And it could be personal and, and on the, the work side.

Um, when you think back on, on your journey, I mean, I would think number one, um, and now my wife's gonna have to listen to this podcast because I've said nice things about her, but like number one is my wife, because I wouldn't— none of what I was able to do, like, would have been possible without her. And it wasn't just like, you know, along for the ride. It was everywhere we went, every time I had to tell her, hey, I just got traded, or hey, I just got cut, or hey, we're moving again, it was met with adventure. It was met with optimism. It was not going into a situation thinking, woe is me. It was Okay, let's go to this community. Let's dive in. Let's meet our neighbors. Let's start playing baseball and get ingrained in this community. Let's go to bingo night at the school because whether we're going to be here for a year, 2 years, or the rest of our life, like, let's get to know this community. And so she, she was certainly the biggest glue guy for me in my career. And then other than that, just being able to have people to lean on, I think later on in my career, And I don't know if this is how it was for you guys, but like later on in my career, a lot of what I thought about was my kids. And I had boys old enough to where there's memories now that they'll have that they'll remember forever. But I always thought about like, how do I want my kids to be looking at me right now? Like, what do I want them to see in their father? The way I'm handling and reacting to these situations towards the back end of my career, like that's something I relied on a lot. Was how am I going to be the example that I want to set for these kids to have something to look up to that's going to be worth looking up to? So that's, that's what I would say in response to that.

It's so funny, Ruby and I were just talking about this. I think if you looked at my career before kids and after kids, like it's drastically different for that, like same thing you're talking about. It was like, put up or shut up, right? Like parenting's not what you say. It's like they, it's what they see and watch and like the example you set.

It's like the ultimate mirror. Even outside of athletics, that's the same way with me because it's like, "Dude, you got to be a grown-up now. No more of the bullshit. Go and be somebody that they can look up to. Be someone that does the things you would tell them to do." I found them to be very clarifying to have kids because when you have a hard decision, you can just think about like, "What would I tell them to do?" But I'm so much better after having them thanks to that same logic you had.

Hey, little postscript here. I do think you're the authors of one of the greatest regular season throws of all time. Miami Dolphins, 2020, you get your face ripped off. I think there's like 19 seconds left in the game. You throw it down the sideline. I just got to get this in for a second because like if people haven't seen this, go check this play out.

It is like one of the greatest.

We can put it in the clip. Is there a better— is there— have you made a better throw in your career?

You've made some unbelievable throws. Is that number one? Do you know what's crazy about that throw is I called it on the sideline before it happened. I didn't call that my face mask was going to get ripped off, but you're going to look off the safety. I knew it was going to be cover 2. I had hit— I missed Mike Gossicky earlier in the game. Then I hit him later in the game right down the pipe. And so I said, I don't know if it was to Matt Collins or somebody. I set up the play and I said, I'm gonna look that safety right down the middle of the field, and I'm gonna rip a no-look pass down the sideline. And sure enough, dude, the safety starts biting over, and it's from the back end. It's, it's pretty awesome because you can see the safety. I think it was a young safety, like, starting towards the middle of the field. And why that corner— I mean, it was like, you know, day one install, cover 2, where he like jammed the guy at the line. It was Mack Hollins. And then just sat there and didn't get any depth. If that guy would have got depth, I wasn't looking at him, didn't care what he was doing anyway. All I was trying to do is move the safety. Um, yeah, and then the dude ripped my face mask. But I— what I say about that play is like, I had so much experience in throwing with my eyes closed that, you know, that one was right on the money, baby, because I threw a lot of throws blind in my career. But that one was pretty cool. It just sucks that it was during COVID There was nobody there. There was nobody in the stadium.

It was during COVID So like All the Blue Guys listeners are going to be watching it, Ryan.

Okay, I'll tell you that right now. Good. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, it was pretty wild though.