Dan Quinn - Building Team Culture - [Glue Guys, EP.32]

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You got to hire a coach who has no C days. You can't come into the building like you got your ass kicked and then being different. Like they're going to get their vibe from you.

A big day for glue guys here.

Fellas.

Our first active head coach coming up.

Let's go.

Head coach Dan Quinn, the Washington Commanders. My old team, I think he was runner up in coach of the year, but I think consensus would have been if they voted at the end of the, you know, after the Super Bowl. He is definitely the unanimous coach of the year. One of the best turnarounds in recent NFL history. I mean, this was a team in an organization that, you know, for decades had struggled and multiple people, including yours truly, have tried to turn it around and failed. And amazing to have him on. The architect of one of the greatest defenses in modern football history. The Legion of Boom, you know, won a Super bowl in Seattle. It's an honor to have him on as head coach of the Washington Commanders. Dan Quinn. Appreciate this, man.

I can't.

Can't tell you how grateful we are to talk shop with you.

No, likewise, man. I. It was easy. It was an easy. Yes.

Our paths nearly crossed because I didn't know this. You were at the Niners the year before I got drafted. And then you made your way to Miami, who had the number two overall pick. And so I tripped. I tripped to Miami. I Remember it vividly. Visiting.

I remember coming to Utah to see.

You visiting with Coach Sabin and Coach Linehan. But kind of leads me to the first question, which I think is amazing about your career is, like, in a very short window, you spent a couple years with Nick Saban, right. One, a Hall of Famer, and then shortly thereafter, you spent multiple stints with Pete Carroll, again a Hall of Famer. And I think I'm so interested in what you saw as strengths of theirs, but I'm almost more amazed by their variability. Like, these two guys couldn't be more different in styles from my perspective. I mean, Nick Saban, a hardcore disciplinarian, like, lead from the front, and Pete Carroll. I mean, this is like, one of the first coaches that brought the word joy to coaching. Right. And empowered players. I guess as you look at both those guys, again, the strengths, what you took from them and then what you took from their differences as well.

Yeah, it's kind of one of those ones that I think you probably had to have, like, then a year or two after to, like, process both of that, because it was an awesome, like, exercise in leadership. And I think what came out of that is, like, authenticity. Alex. So, like, these guys were two of the very best, and their personalities were different, but if you walked into their program, it was a lot more similar than you think. Everybody in the organization knew, like, this is how we do business here. Nick couldn't do it the way that Pete did and do it with joy, and, like, Pete certainly couldn't do it in the way that Nick did. But they were so authentic to themselves. Neither of them changed, you know, day after a win, day after a loss, off season in season. And I really. It left a really big impression on me. Cause I'm sure, you know, all of us have been around leaders that it changed, you know, from this time to this time. But going through that, Alex, it probably, like, cemented it even more to me. And whatever way you're gonna do, like, and you better do it in your own way, because people will see it otherwise. I think athletes in particular, like, the two of you guys, have been bullshitted a lot through recruiting and pro ball and stuff. So, like, your bullshit filter is higher than most. And so if you're gonna walk into a locker room, man, like, you better be authentic to you and how you talk and you express yourself. Because if you're trying to be somebody different, that shows up really cleanly. I've definitely been on staff before. I was like, man, I wish the team could see you in this setting because they would like this person, you know, as opposed to being somebody else in front of a group. And it was, like, come across as not totally authentic to them. So it was cool, man, because it was a lesson for me to say, man, like, do it in your own way.

How do you do that? Like, at one point, do you say, okay, this is who I am as a coach. I'm taking all the ingredients, all the people that touch me on the way to this point. Like, when do you. When do you feel you have identity.

As a coach and coach? Just to add one thing to that, there's this quote from Jazz of, like, Miles Davis or something at one point being like, it took me so many years to learn to play like myself, so I feel like that point on authenticity, so real. But did it just, like, click for you right after you were with those guys, or did it take some time?

Just like Shane was saying, in coaching, there's, like, different levels of leadership that you'll have, mostly on the way into spots. And I had been a position coach in the NFL for a long time. I was a defensive line coach, and I really wanted, like, a bigger leadership opportunity, so I actually left the NFL. I'd been coaching defensive line for, like, 10 years, went back to college as a coordinator. It was when I was like, all right, I need to go prove it. But going there, it was like, okay, do I have to do it like, this person or this person? And it was probably during that next experience where you're really leading other coaches and no longer just your own position, that it better be true to the way that you do it. And so I was fortunate. Like, as I got another level up, I got to lead, you know, a defensive staff at that point. So I think the. Those are, like, important markers, because if you just went from, like, just being in charge of yourself and then all of a sudden being in charge of leading a group of coaches or a staff, like, that's a big deal. And I say they were, like, good lessons for me. So when I went back to Seattle as a defensive quarter, I went from Florida's defense quarter to Seattle. Okay, I was in charge of maybe eight coaches and the defensive group. And then you go to an NFL team and it's, you know, 20 coaches and all the players. And so hitting those steps was important for me, but having other good people that showed examples the right way to do it. And then also someone say, like, we've all wrote that list down to the side, like, I will never fucking do this. As it comes up. And then I became, to answer Shane's question, like, how do you make sure it's true to yourself? I think you have to be honest, like, what are the things I'm really good at? And I also wanted to hire a staff of people, people that weren't exactly just like me, where when I came here to dc, it wasn't like all of people that I knew. There were plenty of people that I wanted new lenses and new insights onto things.

Talk about that. That's, that's scary, right?

It is a little bit.

You get back to the first chair and you're, you know, you're Abraham Lincoln team arrivals all of a sudden, like talk about like, like, like how and, and why and where does that come from? That's scary.

Well, I think I probably have to wind it back a little bit, Shane, because I got fired in Atlanta. I've been there six seasons and I got fired maybe like just right at the start of the season. The team wasn't doing well. It was the season of 2020 and at the time I thought it was like the worst thing that could have happened to me to be let go at that time because you have this probably three month break that you're not with the team. I'd been on team for my whole life, so it was like this lonely space. But it also gave me like this window to like look back and say, all right, what has to change? You know, it. What part of the scheme had to change? What part of my looking at things could be different? So if I did get that shot again, it wasn't going to be just, hey, rinse and repeat. So like most things, what we think is the worst thing that can happen at that time wasn't that way at all. Had I gotten fired maybe Shane, like at the end of that season and then just went to Dallas, you know, like the next week. Like it's kind of a traditional model in the NFL. I don't know if I would have changed as many things. And that helped me going into this next space to really make sure if I was going to go to a spot that like, we could let it rip and kick ass. And so I was pretty selective. I'd been a head coach before, so if my career, if I never got to do it again, I wasn't going to be crushed about it. Like I was enjoying what I was doing and hopefully making an impact. So like, it would only be a spot where, man, you could really let it rip and win. And so that's why I think I had some more perspective coming onto this next lap to say this is not a rinse and repeat thing.

Am I correct? Did you do a 360 review?

I did. I didn't know what one of those was.

Neither did I. Atlanta.

But no one in sports knows that is.

Yeah, I learned it from Ravi.

Yeah, I'm happy to. We'll let coach start out and I'll fill in any gaps, you know.

Yeah, there's a lot of gaps you're gonna have to fill in. When I got to Atlanta, the owner, Zarthur Blank, like, this is a world class business person, you know, like, started Home Depot and so the 360 was my first time. This is gonna sound unusual. I'd never been evaluated as an assistant coach by like the head coach or the defense Corp. Sat down and like, hey, this is where, you know, people think you're strong or weak or where it goes. Usually it's like, hey, you're doing a good job. Here's your next contract, and you're just kind of rolling. So I like feedback, so I liked it. And a 360 was where other people in different departments, you know, put a lens onto you. And it was a little bit too businessy for me. Like, how does he relate to the customers? You know, like, so it was definitely like a model that he had used in the business world. So I kind of created one that was just football, you know, And I'd hired a good friend who worked with Fox named Laura Oakman. And I said, I'd like you to talk to, you know, between, you know, 30 to 50 people, some that it went great with, some that it didn't. Some front office, some coaches. But I just want to know if there was any blind spots for me that I had to address. And so, like, in true friendship, people would call, like, hey, man, like this person called. Is this. Is this a real thing? Is this like. Like, yeah, bro, I love you. Thank you. Like, yeah, I really want you to do this because I had no interest in who said it, None. So I didn't want that. I didn't want anybody to have, you know, some people, like, put my name on this. He's all, you know, ever it was. But I don't. That doesn't interest me. I just want to know were there any themes that took place that I wouldn't repeat? And so it was useful because it did find some things, like, where probably, like the three of you. I like to solve problems and help others. So, like, there's times I took on too much and I can help with the D line, I can help with this guy and I can help with that. And then all of a sudden, by the end I was working harder than I ever had and having less results. So there was like examples like that that I was. I'm not going to repeat that. And so I got to like put that in place a bit in Dallas during my three years. Hey, man, like this a project. Shane, I'd like to come back to me on Friday, man. If you need help, let me know. But let's Visit Friday at 3 o' clock. As opposed to. In the past, I would have just tried to do that project on my own and then done another one with Alex and another one through. So like it helped me delegate better and then I could give more feedback on the things that were the most important, you know, space for me. So those were some examples. I got to apply it. So by the time I got back into this chair, it wasn't like now what was that? You know, I wanted to do again. So it helped me in that way.

You know, Coach, it's interesting because you think about people that like feedback, feedback, like a lot of times it sucks, but so I work in venture capital and we use a quote from one year old mentors, Nick Saban all the time. The good player, average players want to be left alone. Good players want to be coached. Great players want to be told the truth. And I think your point of like you just want to know, right? That's the only way to get better is such a hallmark across all industries. The people that are the best, they want to know the truth, good or bad, you know. And so I think I give you a lot of credit for having that be so early that you wanted to do it.

Yeah. And you have to like create an environment where people want to talk and give feedback to one another. And so if you can do that right, then you can kind of multiply the staff and the people here. So like we give each other a lot of feedback. You know, as coaches here, the players here, we do the same thing. And so like I want them to listen. Like, put it this way, man, I've learned a lot from players. Like I coached Jason Taylor in Miami. Like he was fantastic. Like of course I was going to learn some things about pass rush from him. Like, you'd be a dumbass if you didn't. Like where, what did you see and where. And like those moments, I learned a lot from guys. And so if you don't open your lens to listening to everybody. Then I think, man, like you're going to miss it.

It's so rare in sports though, coach. I mean again, I think to like have that, that perspective, honestly, it really reminds me of when Andy Reid made the jump from Philly to Kansas City. He was very kind of similar, introspective on, on the things he did wrong and could improve on, on his next go round and again.

But that's us, right? That's. We always look at that part first. I remember Laura had had this really nice document and we were going to go through it on a zoom together and I just like scrolled down to the bottom where. Wait, wait, what are you doing? I was like, I don't care about the stuff at the top. Like that's cool. And she's like, no, no, no. I did a lot of time now. I want you to see this in order. I was like, laura, we're starting right here. You know, this is important, you know, and so, but that's our way, right, Alex, is to say how do I do this better? And but the whole thing is important.

It's just, it's just so weird because in, in professional sports, you know, we're taught that the feedback loop is your contract, right?

Yep.

You know, the media is your feedback loop. Right now the guys have social media. That's, that's the feedback loop. And so, you know, we're always trying to improve our physical skills. We're to trying, trying to learn the game a little bit better. But like there's a whole just huge amount of potential, you know, just psychologically, emotionally that that is never unlocked for the athlete. I didn't find that out until I retired and stepped away and I, I started to do 360s on myself and, and you know, you almost want to, you wonder what the world looks like in professional athletics if everyone went through a 360.

Right?

Yeah. And you guys had done like way better in the NBA than we've done in the NFL about like development. You were so much more intentional. And so I've learned so much from NBA coaches. Like how do I apply some of those things about development into the NFL? Because like that's feedback too. You know, like the pre practice stuff, the post practice skill work, then, then you can see it into the game. And so like we make a case to show those skills that like everybody's working on. Like that's kind of like part of our Saturdays. Yeah. You know, as opposed to like the opponent is like Shane was working at this skill here. It is from the practice here. It is from last week's game. Like, keep digging on this, man. Like, this is going to make a difference.

Yeah. Dq, when you. So you leave Atlanta, you get hired in Dallas.

Yeah.

From when, from what I understand is that the first time the backwards hat showed up. And if so, if so, I'm.

I'm definitely not the first time it showed up.

Is it first time it showed up on game day? Yeah, I think that's an important distinction.

Well, I don't think you get, you know, you're not on like as a D line coach, you're not like, not on the camera a lot. So as a person that had the camera on them. Yes, that was probably true. I probably did it in Seattle some in the press box. I was in the press box as a play caller in both Seattle and in Dallas. And it's a. It was one of those ones that's better for me. I would have loved to have been on the sidelines where like, you missed the emotion. But like, it's also way better to call a game from the press box. Like, you see everything so much clearer. The emotions out of it. It's not like somebody grabbed me like, hey, they're holding me like, yeah, no, fuck that, you know, like, so it was a good way. So I don't know why that showed up that way, but maybe because I did it there, it pushed me to say, man, this is how you like express yourself. Like how you actually do wear your hat. Like, if you had been at the building in other places you would saw the same thing. So I just said like, don't change that. Like in this second lap of stuff.

I think there's so much power in it, coach. And I know it's such a, it's such a little thing, but you just said it earlier. I think when assistant coaches get bumped up to a coordinating role or head coach role, there's such pressure to look and act a certain way.

Yeah.

Even as a player, there is pressure to look and act a certain way. Like, I can't tell you how many times I got told to turn my hat around by old school curmudgeon coaches.

Yes.

And it only adds to the imposter syndrome because like you're saying, you know, Monday through Saturday you play football, you wear sweats, you wear backwards hats. And then all of a sudden on game day, I struggled with as a professional, I had to put on a suit all of a sudden. And it had so. It carried so much weight.

Yeah.

Because it was so uncomfortable and foreign to me. And it really, like, honestly, it led to the same kind of mentality and weight on the field, the anxiety. And I think as a head coach, you can tell your assistants and your players to be themselves and to show their personality, which is like a famous thing that Andy Reid says. But your backwards hat is the power of it. It's Andy Reid wearing his aloha shirt the night before a game. Right. Like you modeling that behavior, I think carries so much power. And so I just, I love that, honestly, as someone, you share that.

I like it. Yeah. Because, like, it's what makes being on a team, like, so much fun, man. Like, we're different and people, you know, get to express themselves in different ways. I'm glad that everybody's not like me on the team. And I learned a lot of new stuff, a lot of new things with people. But I appreciate you sharing that because I do think, like, the tighter the team gets, the better you're going to play. And all of us that have been on good teams, like, they were pretty good locker rooms. And so I want them to be able to, like, be themselves around one another. And that includes game day.

Coach question for me. You walk into a situation at the commanders, right? And you want the future to be different than the past.

Right.

You guys have different aspirations than it did, but you were very intentional on the words that you were using and the words you weren't using. Can you talk to us about that? How did you decide what messages you wanted to get out to get the outcome you wanted?

And.

And why did it matter to you so much? We're not calling it this, we are calling it this. How did you.

It matters a lot because a lot of people are part of that organization that wherever you go, they're doing like some really good things. And I think you could lose them like that if you said what was ever here in the past. Like, I've been on the staff of the new coach. I knew what it was like to, you know, old guys, new guys, and I just didn't need that. And I wasn't part of anything from the past. So I just took the view of saying, like, if I refer to the past eight, I know what the team may have done before, whether it was travel or anything else, but, like, this is how we're going to get down from, from here on. And I just kept my vision on that. And then every coach that was here that even if I wasn't keeping, I wanted to meet with them. Just a one on one, like past like commanders or that? Just like coaching brotherhood, man. Like, hey, I'm, I'm sorry we don't have a spot, but I just wanted to see you face to face and let you know, appreciate, you know, the work. You never know where it goes in the NFL and so you'd miss a priority. Surprised how many people wanted just to give me some insight. And so all I had to do was like, listen some. This might be something. This might be something, man. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. And you don't know, you just listen. And then I didn't want a lot of bias, honestly. You'd be surprised how many times, like if we had traded for Alex, then the trainers call there and then the personnel guys and like before you know it, this is what they said about them. This is what they said about them, him. And I was like, I remember many times, like, I'm good, man. Like, I want my own opinion of this, man. Like, I didn't want a bias coming from another club on somebody, especially if they had had some issues with them, you know. So like, I wanted to start fresh with somebody. And so that was me here to say I knew some things would change, but I wasn't part of that. And so all I wanted to look at it was like, this is how we're going to get down from here on. And if you're down with that, then like, there'll be a spot for you here. And I said it to the players too. Like, we're not going to be for everybody. And I was very comfortable saying that, knowing that there weren't going to be any sacred cows here. Like, Adam and I were very specific to make sure, like, we're really going to build a team. Like, you have to have standards that apply to everybody on the team, not just to this crew or just to this crew. And Shane, you can probably relate to that more than anybody in the NBA where that can be especially challenging with guarantees and other things that go on. But the NFL, we were committed to say, like, if they're not down with it, like, they're not going to be here. And we would move on from people. And so we just took that approach. Wasn't like a threat though. I just wanted to make sure it was like, this is how we're going to do things moving forward.

Well, historic eight game turnaround. You know, you win 12 games, have an unbelievable, unbelievable year. Electric rookie quarterback, you've ignited, you know, the D.C. metroplex. You know, I was, I was reading about one of your main keys for the locker room was self policing.

Right.

Ownership of the team, culture, you know, not. It's not your team, it's our team. So talk about how you get players to buy into the, to that because that's, that's really difficult for a new coach to, to, to convey.

Yep, my first year in Atlanta, I thought I was doing a good job of like talking about connecting and culture. And after the season was over, we finished 8 and 8 and we had released a player who I thought would have had some leadership capabilities with him. He had been a veteran. So as I was, we were just walking together down to the locker room and he saw another DB who was a rookie. And I heard the Rick say, man, let me get your number. And I was like, this just crushed me. Like here I am thinking we have connection. Like I had totally failed. And so I went right to people that I knew from the military and said I need help and called some friends from Alex year old neck of the woods down in San Diego. And if you read a SEAL ethos, you know who they are, you know what they're, what they stand for. And so I'd ask them to come out and help us write a standard. And so that helped us create standards that we said we would do together as a group. And so I did that here in, in Washington as like, I only have one rule. It's like protect the team. So you can apply that to lots of spaces on the field, off the field. But we had better have some standards about how we're going to operate together. And then it gets so much easier, Shane on accountability, because it's not like this is what I said, this is what we said. So like that changes the math because now it can be like peer to peer. You don't have like an asshole, you can say bear. Like we just talked about that like two days ago. Like this is the standards that we said we're cool with. And so that helped because then I can keep pointing it out, you know, whether it's on video, what's in the building, what's in the meeting room. I just tried to like, man, I was like just showing the examples of good standards that we said we wanted. And we brought in some players that had really high standards too, like Zach Ertz and Bobby Wagner. I didn't bring them in here to coach, but I did think there was value in somebody that just had really high standards about how they operated and I didn't want them to be anything different. I said, just be yourself, that's plenty. But that would be the way that we push the locker room standards together. If I had issues, I just brought them up. I didn't dance around them. If I liked something, I really expressed it and said it. But if I didn't, I also did the same. To say, like, man, this can't be. If we're going to be that way.

I think the crazy thing about that coach is most people's stereotype of leadership, especially for a head coach, is coming in and it's like, I got the plan. This is the way. Follow my rules. But, like, what you're saying with the. What you learned from the military and the seals is exactly the opposite. It's like, no, no, we're going to create this together. It's like Coach K coming up with the core values with the team leaving space. Like you left space for the. The staff and the leaders on the team, and it was more of a shared vision versus your vision. Yeah, I think that's. There's, like, there's so much to learn from that because again, I think we feel pressure when you're in leadership roles that, like, it's. It's me, it's. I gotta. I gotta do this. And again, I think the ability to trust the people you've put together and that we're doing this together. And. And again, that, like, inherently then it does police itself. Right. Like, these guys have ownership and stake in it. And I think, again, it's just. There's a lot to learn there.

Yeah. The best competitive moments I've had in my whole life were doing it as a group. The best. And so I didn't want to get, you know, stray too far from that because I knew any of the good things that we would be doing in the future wasn't me. It was going to be all of us doing it. So I wanted to also have, like, these standards to be really high and say, man, like, we're going to hold ourselves to them, but, like, they should be hard, they should be challenging. And if they are, they, then, like, now we got something to really dig into.

Coach, I've heard you talk about intentionally leaving space for your assistant, for other leadership.

The.

The assistants to step up in, the leaders on the team to step up on. And where did you. Where did that come from? That style? Was that forged from your time as an assistant? Right. And that you've developed in a short time, you've developed quite a list of head coaches.

Put it this way. I wanted to make sure, like, that we were sharing a lot of ideas, you know, Alex, because, like, if it was just my idea, then there was only, like, my idea and also, like, one way to fail. And so I would ask a lot of questions of the guys. How else would you think this could go? And it takes some vulnerability for the assistant also to ask, like, the player, like, what is too much. I can clearly remember a guy who I just love, who was a player and now is a coach named Al Harris. And we were in Dallas and he's a corner, like, fantastic corner in Green Bay. And he said we were talking about a check and what it would mean. He said, q, I think that could be difficult from the lens of the helmet, you know, like, he like, brought it back to, like, him as. And I was like, that's perfect. Like, that's exactly what I needed to hear to say, no, no, that's too much. And if you're not open to, like, feedback from the players, then I think, man, you're missing it because whether it's the assistant coach feedback because really, like Alex, as the head coach, you're coaching the assistant coaches the most. I knew I did a good job. If I heard players repeating things that I didn't say in a team meeting, but I said in a staff meeting because then I knew it went from the assistants down to the players. If I had said it to the staff and then I had also said it to the team, you didn't really know, you know, like, did this really get down to the locker room? And so sometimes I would just do that just to see, like, messaging happening. And I said, all right. You know, it's like what you guys hit on in your meeting today. You know, I'd ask a player and he was like, such and such. I was like, is that it? He was like, yeah, all right, cool, good meeting. And then, you know, I was like, we didn't say about what I said this morning. So I repeat it the next day and say, all right, I want to make sure that, you know, this is getting across. And so it was just like sometimes a fun way to like, see if you're, you know, getting it across. Because as coaches, it's also like the teaching part of it. Like, you could almost put teacher and part of every bit of coach, but there's lots of times there was good teaching, but we didn't know if good learning was going on. It's like the college lecture that just happens for an hour and then you close up shop and you don't know. So, like, if we have a 30 minute meeting, it might be like, two minutes intro of what we're going to do, probably 20 minutes of the instruction, and then it's game on for feedback. All right, Shane, teach it back to me. Go through it. You know, they're struggling. All right, you want to take the 50. 50. You want to phone a friend, like, you know how? Because I need to test the learning. You know, you might have had a great presentation and sweet PowerPoint and everybody. Everything else, but, like, you didn't really test if they knew it.

Hey, Coach 1. One question I was thinking about when you. When you have a culture that you're proud of, that you've helped build. Right. And then somebody leaves.

Right.

Whether it's a coach or a player, obviously, I know that you're happy for them because it's good for their life. Whatever. What does it feel like in the moment when somebody that you've built this thing with decides to go do something else? The assistant coach that goes to be a head coach. Are you immediately happy for them? Can you keep that perspective? Or are you first. Do you feel kind of, whatever, Sad, pissed, annoyed? What's the first reaction?

Well, I can say now that I'm in, like, the 2.0 version of my head coaching spot, the coaching staff that I came in with in Atlanta was stronger than the one that I left with, and that's a bad thing. And I didn't do a good enough job of working the succession plan of who should be next into this spot, who should be next into this spot, and that's. I'm not taking a shot at anybody. I'm saying, like, the only shot taken there is me. Yep. And so the development of coaches is just as important as the development of players. And my thought for when a guy does get to move up, it's one, like, I'm very, like, legit pumped for them. It's something that wanted. They're excited and, like, I'm absolutely pumped for him. When you play them, you want to kick their ass, like, good like anybody else. But more often than not, they're getting that opportunity because they absolutely crushed it with you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally.

Why would you feel anything other than, like, extreme gratitude for them? Like, they helped. Like, Kyle helped me go to the Super Bowl. Like, all I had was love for him.

Yeah.

And still do. Because if he hadn't been there, would it have been the same? Probably not.

Yeah. But the cool thing about it is you have such extreme accountability and agency in it. In the reframe of, like. Yeah. Like an inevitable part of having a winning program is that people are going to leave. My job is to make sure I'm prepared for that so that I can be happy and grateful for this guy. It's awesome. It's such a cool.

It was part of the interview here. Like, I told Josh Harris, we were going to have a deep crew because I expect us to do well. And when we do, people are going to leave. And, like, ultimately, I'd rather, you know, promote from within here to do that. And so we've got some heavy hitters on our staff that stayed when they could have left even this year. And, like, that really made me happy knowing that, like, they had some unfinished business here. And that made me happy to know that, like, if they had left, there were other people that were ready for that op, too. Awesome.

Can you talk about here on that note? Going into year two, I mean, you're fresh off the heels of one of the greatest turnarounds in recent NFL history, and expectations change, Right. All of a sudden now it's like, NFC Championship. What's been on your mind this off season, like, headed into year two?

The expectation, honestly, is like, I expect us to be a lot better. Yeah. And that starts with me, like, how am I going to improve? And so we call them all work on. So each player will have their individual part of that, whether it's, you know, like, Jaden, I visited with him, what that would be. I visited with the other assistants. What are they, you know, working on? So, like, collectively, Alex, like, if all of us dig in to get better, like, that's my expectation. Because, as you know, man, there's so many other factors and schedules and who you play and injuries. So, like, just wanted to, like, absolutely go forward about getting better and, like, whatever that looks like for, you know, the QC coach, who I'm hoping is going to become a, you know, position coach. So, like, at the rookie camp, we're going to film his meetings and help develop him. Just, like we're going to develop, you know, the, you know, the player. And so that's my expectation, man. Like, dig in hard and, like, like, absolutely go for it to get better.

The score takes care of itself, you know? Yeah.

So far away, man, to think about other things. I just want to, like, make, like, I'm hoping that the team that we're bringing in is, like, really a competitive group. Like, this is going to be a hard team to make, and a lot of positions have some legit comp that's going to, like, elevate a lot of people. And so if we get that part right. The best teams have huge competitions amongst positions and practice and offense and defense. And that's what I'd hope we could.

Create here on that competing note, because I've heard you guys do this. You competed everything, right? Like, it's just built into the culture I'd heard. You know, I think a lot of this comes from your time in Seattle, which I. Yes, it was in that division. And heard. I'd heard these stories about everything, you know, from the TV Tell the Truth Monday. And you know, I think there's. From my perspective, I think the thing that's cool about it is like the stigma of winning and losing. Like when it's just in everything, all you're left with is just like compete, right? Like again, you're not as concerned about or, or you know, consumed by the, the fear of a failure. Right? Like, no, just bring it, man. Like there's going to be a winner and loser every day.

It takes a little while to get to that space, but you get there because like everybody's competing all the time at a lot of spots. And so like we compete like going over bags to start practice. Like, there's a score, who keeps it and the. Those are moments like, just have fun doing it. But like, yeah, after the next competition's over, like we're onto something else. And so there's not resentment towards the teammate or the other coach. It's just, man, like, okay, onto the next. Like if somebody wins, like inevitably somebody does. And all the ones like we blow the horn, we go to the next drill. Like, so I don't allow for like tons of celebrating or things to go on after that, that particular one because there's another part of practice to get to. But like we acknowledge who won but then we get on, you know, get on to the next thing. But you're right, you just, it's just like, it's harder for early on. Like, is this cool? Like if we're doing this all the time, like, yeah, this is how we do things.

I can't help but think it affected your guys record in the fourth quarter when you guys. This last year and one score games when you guys were kicking ass and focused.

That's a cool metric to be good at.

Like it's.

Yeah, you know, that's gotta create some pride.

We also lost some really close ones too. And like we had to go through those lessons to apply them and we had lost like at one point, like three in a row, you know, in November. And like those are ones that you Find out a lot, but like standards of a Bobby Wagner of others. When maybe outside the walls people talk, but like inside, like, hey man, just whatever we got to do to dig in together, like, we'll like the results at the end. And so we did that a lot, but we did like a situation every single practice from every ota, every training camp in season. So whether it was two minute or four minute or a two point play competition, just best out of three, just, you know, offense versus defense. And I thought going, doing good on good. And I don't know if you guys did it much, saying how you guys played more than you practiced. In the NFL, we practice way more than we play. But it was good just to work good on good skill. You know, the receiver getting the release on the db, the offensive tackle having to block best pass rusher, the quarterback having to make the throw, you know, into a tight window where on some of the scout teams the looks are easier and they should be. You're trying to get yourself together, but sometimes just going against the other guys at their best sharpens your skill level. And so I never wanted to get too far away from that. So each day included something of that.

Oh, that's great. Because especially in season, Coach, I can't tell you how many times you get to December and you haven't had a competitive practice in months.

Yeah.

And the only time you see competition is on Sunday. So it makes it as you get later and deeper into the season, it like, it becomes the abnormality, which is weird.

Yeah, we just did it. And it could be really short, like first and go up to seven. Yeah. Just play and see what happens. You know, maybe I'd go for it on fourth down, maybe I wouldn't. Like, depending, like, if I wanted to, like have another play. It was just. But the guys knew it. I didn't always tell them what the scenarios would be because I wanted that to be sharp for the coaches too. But it could just be, you know, a scenario and hey, let's go play this. And two minute. It's. But it's just fun doing like those kind of competitions. They don't have to be long, but they have to have like some heightened skill work.

Hey, Coach, I know that we're gonna run up on time soon. One thing we ask everyone who comes on, you know the podcast called Glue Guys. Right. And we have a lot of respect for the people that keep us connected, the people that are underappreciated sometimes, who. Can you share some of the Glue Guys or Glue People in Your life.

As a head coach, you need to see the role players because if you don't, like, you're missing so many things that they bring to your team. And so Shane was referring earlier to say like you see it in the contract and I think that's true for some. But there's also the guy that's the glue guy that maybe vet minimum, but he is really important to your team. We like to celebrate those by on Fridays we do game captains for every game. And so it gives me a day to talk about that player. Here's three words I would describe Alex Smith. He's relentless, he's competitive, you know, like whatever that is. And so I get to celebrate whoever that is for three days. And then at the end of the regular season, the NFL allows you to do postseason captains and they allow six in total. So for here with this organization, I chose or the team elected five captains that they wanted to be theirs. They didn't know you could have six, but I left one for myself and that was Doug Williams, who, you know, was such an impactful teammate for me coming here and made me feel, you know, so welcoming. Like you feel Doug's support. I'm sure Alex, you did as a qb, but like I love the guy. So like I made him walk out there with the captains. Like, I was like, doug, we're going to Tampa and you are out there. And so those are, I would say, like people on a regular basis, man, that like, you need to recognize the role players, the guys that are like really living the standards going it as a coach, I get to express it some through like our special team. So one small story. This year the NFL adopted a new policy that it was a whole new kicking game, you know, for kickoff and kickoff return. So I thought if we were going to have a play style of toughness, we were going to like cover more kicks and put it in play more than anybody. And I thought it would develop the younger players, players, it would give us an edge. And quite honestly, I thought like, maybe there's a gap that we could fill to bridge some of the talent. And we covered more kicks than any team in the NFL. We didn't have the most kickoffs, like we weren't the most highest scoring, but we put it in play the most. So a guy like Jeremy Reeves or Nick Velour, like they could absolutely. Or Percy Butler could like express their toughness and speed and effort and energy for the team. And so I think on special teams is a glue position. They're generally not the Highest paid. It's really important for field position. And so when that new rule came, I was super intentional about, like, we're going to do this. So, like, I. We have an excellent special team coach named Larry Izzo, who is a fantastic special team player. Like, like, I committed before we even started it. Like, we're going to do this more than anybody just to, like, establish it and prove our toughness. And it came through. We were excellent at it.

I played 16 years, and I think the player that helped me the most in my entire career, these guys have heard me talk about him at length. Like, was a. Is a. I mean, I think he was the third string linebacker, backup linebacker, but core special team guy. And the energy and passion that he played with had such a profound effect on me. And I was the starting quarterback, the number one pick. Like, it changed my career. And so I hadn't even thought of that with the new kickoff rule. And. And it's amazing to hear you say, like, how intentional you were about that. And like, Jeremy Reeves, the guy I know well, man.

Yes, man. Like, his livelihood.

Yeah. Plays with that same passion. So I love that.

Yeah. So that part, like, I wanted to make sure, like, we were going to be different. That's why I said we're not gonna be for everybody. Like, not everybody wants to cover kicks and, like, be down with that, but, like, we were going to establish a toughness well before our scheme. And so that was a big part of it.

Coach, I got one. One more for you. I just kind of want, if you could, you know, 15, 20 years from now, you're. You're a GM, you're running a team, and you're trying to find your new coach.

Yep.

What. What are the scheme aside. And I know that's obviously a part of it, but scheme aside, what. What are the things that you're looking for? Like what. What's important and what's not?

I thought, sir, you're going to ask me about quarterback. So I was like, all right, I already know where he's going with this number one man. Like, you want somebody that's like, really clear in communication, like, this is how we're going to do business, and this is how we're going to do things and want, like, really high standards for everybody in the organization and, like, be the dude that's able to hold them to that. I would say you got to hire a coach who has no C plus days. Like, you can't come into the building, like, you know, you got your ass kicked. And then being different, like they're going to get their vibe from you. And so as the head coach, it can be challenging, Alex, because you got to that spot from being a good play caller, likely on offense or defense. And so that acumen is still important, but, like, you also now have to carry the vibe of, like, how things are, get a pulse on the team. And. And so I think that to me would be. First, I want to make sure that, like, a guy has really high standards for the team and how he communicates that he's going to treat Alex Smith with respect on the his best of days, but you're also going to be there on the worst of days for him. And so as a head coach, you have to be present in both those moments. And I get to live it all the time because training camp's awesome and it sucks because you have to cut people. And so here it is on the toughest of days, but you're also there when you're winning a championship on the best of days. So being somebody that can navigate both those experiences, like, with respect, like, that's really important to me, you as a player, you and Shane, man, like, you guys deserve that. Dude, like, you're absolutely busting your ass in this time in your life to go for it. Like, there's no balance when you're an athlete. Like, you know, like, oh, have balance. Like, no, man, God made you to get on the field or on the court and kick ass. So, like, own it. And like, people don't understand that. Like, normal people, like, that's why you guys aren't like normal people. You know, you have. There is an imbalance. And so knowing how to give somebody the respect in that, when somebody's going for something as hard as you could possibly go for it, like, there's no balance in that. And so I always wanted to recognize, you know, that you're present for the best of those parts and the hardest of those parts, too.

I'm ready to play it for you, coach. I'm ready.

Yeah. Like, at least six plays a game, Shane, you'd be right there.

I was pumped.

Passing six state champion, 1990 state of Michigan. So I'm ready to go if you need.

There is no doubt, Coach.

The real, the real takeaway is, you know, I don't play in the NFL. I didn't play in the NBA, but I'd be ready to play for you too. In a business, you have an incredible leadership style that would translate across everything. It's amazing. Thank you for spending time with us.

I appreciate that I was. I've been so pumped to be on with the three of you and just be able to talk some stuff. And if, you know, a couple people gain from this conversation, then that's what it's all about, you know, where the three of us are able to pay it forward in a cool way to somebody, like, then that's. That's why we do it. And so I'm glad that we're able to.