Eli Manning - Pressure, Leadership & Showing Up - [Glue Guys, EP.41]

Early in my career, I'd spend hours alone in the film room thinking I was being productive. But the truth was I had no idea what I was doing. I was just going through the motions. That's what finance leaders tell me. They're frustrated because they waste hours manually tracking expenses and reconciling statements when they should be focusing on driving their business forward. Be honest with me, how much of your time is spent on high value work? For many finance teams it's less than 20%. But you can change that right now with Ramp. Ramp is a free corporate card that handles all the tedious financial operations automatically so your finance team can focus on what actually moves the needle. One CFO told me they cut their month end close from five days to one. It's no surprise over 25,000 businesses trust ramp, including Shopify, CBRE and Boys and.

Girls Club of America.

Don't waste any more time going through the motions. Check out ramp@ramp.com GG and for glue guys listeners, Ramp is offering metal cards for the next 30 days. Just go to ramp.com gigi cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply.

My fourth year in the NFL, you know, I hired a sports psychologist, talked to the, like the owners of the Giants and Tom Coughlin knew about it and they're like, don't tell anybody. Don't tell you. Don't tell other coaches. Don't tell your teammates. Don't, you know, like keep this quiet. Like, we don't want people to think there's something wrong with you foreign.

Fellas, I'm, I'm so pumped for today's guest. This is a somebody that I've looked up to from afar for a long, long time. One of the toughest dudes in football. Started 210 consecutive football games. But it's so much more than that. A guy that was a fellow number one pick the NFL draft and just also comes from one of the most unique families not only in sports but in America and just can't, can't wait to talk to him. That's Eli Manning. So pumped to have you on, man. Honestly, like when we first started this, the show and we were talking about potentially having guests on and I was like formulating ideas. I think you were the first name I wrote down. Yeah, you know, we were talking about glue guys and different people and you know, the high achieving people and, and their stories and for multiple reasons, not just because you beat me in the NFC championship game. Over time, my only, my only shot.

One.

No, that's It.

No. Well, in the playoffs, Candlestick, am I.

Supposed to say I'm sorry? I don't know. You're not. Situation.

You got to be authentic. You just have to tell the truth. You either tell him that you want to stick his nose in it or.

You'Re sorry, but whichever one's true, I'm fine with it.

Anyway. Dude, one thing that we talk a lot about is fatherhood and even, you know, sonhood. We talk a lot about our dads and our upbringings and then obviously our role now as a father. And one thing that I openly am kind of like, conflicted about is my oldest son, who's just turned 14, you know, wants to be a quarterback. You know, when I grew up, I didn't have expectations, right? Like, my dad didn't play quarterback professionally. And I'm, you know, again, I'm so torn with, like, the weight that he has to deal with. Right. Like expectations. Because you, you were on both sides of this, right? Your dad, obviously famous quarterback and, you know, career, and then you have a son and I don't know, just kind of what you think of that, like, your experience. I mean, you know, to have been on both sides of it and dealing with those expectations.

You know, it's funny. I was talking, I was with, with a buddy the other day, and he said that, you know, he was talking about his son and dealing with things, and he, he said that pressure is a privilege. It was kind of a neat saying. And I think that's, there's something to that. Like being in these high pressure situations as, as a kid or in any position that you're in, that, that's a good thing. Like, that's, that's, that's where you want to be. That means you're doing something important. That means there's, there's something, you know, that, that you're, you're working hard towards and you're committed to something and you're in these, these situations. And I think it's, it's good to, you know, have your kids in those situations. I grew up, I guess, in that I didn't always maybe feel that pressure. I think my parents and, and did a great job, like, not putting too much on me or making it seem like, hey, this is the most important thing in the world that you're playing this football game, or there was never, hey, you have to be a quarterback or you have to play high school, college, or NFL is, you know, they just, they wanted us to be good kids, be respectful, work hard, be great teammates. Like Those are more the important things. Be a good student, you know, be, be kind to your teachers. Have great friends. And they thought sports were very important in the sense of building character and dealing with defeat and dealing with success and working hard and being committed to something and. But I think, you know, it never, you know, felt that there's a ton of pressure on me. I probably didn't feel that until I got to New York. And all of a sudden I'm like, wow, this new, this, this New York media is like, they're putting the pressure on me. They're the ones that I'm like, my goodness, if, like that'll, you know, do well or start, you know, throwing more touchdowns, like, these people, like, you're gonna hate me. And like, this is, this is tough. And the fans. So it never came like a privilege then, did it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, but it never came from home. And I think that's important as you get into fatherhood and the parenting. It's like we're, you know, I'm here to support my kids. I want them to find their, their passion. I want them to work hard at things, but I'm not going to be one after a game, you know, if they win or lose, I'm there for a hug. I'm there to talk through some things and, and just let's, let's, you know, listen to music or let, let them kind of read the, you know, you know, kind of take the direction of. Do they want to discuss this game? Do they want to discuss the situation? Or we just let this one slide by.

So came across a stat do a lot of work in, in youth sports. And I think the stat is like 80% of. Of kids quit sports before they reach the age of 13. The number one reason why, if you ask, if you poll them what's, what's the worst part of you sports? They say the ride home.

That is true. I believe it. I believe it. I mean, I see it. I see like, And I, I could probably pick out the parents that are like, you know, I don't want to be in that car with, with that parent right now. I, I hope that like my, my kid, you know, or even even like my, my kids friends be like, hey, I want to ride, I want to ride home with, with your dad after the game. You know, hey, they're gonna stop and get ice cream. We're gonna listen to some good tunes. Like, we're gonna have a party. We're gonna celebrate and you know, we're not gonna do a Deep dive into, you know, that we lost the lacrosse game. Six, five, you know, and what's going on, you know, we, hey, we may talk about it or we may laugh at something or, or. But, you know, it's never going to be, you should have done this, or I can't believe you did. You know, it's just, that's just not my style. That's how, not how my parents raised me and, and not, not the relationship I want with my kids.

How old were you when you wanted to play quarterback?

You know, I, I, I mean, I always kind of played quarterback. I, I didn't start tackle football until eighth grade, so I was playing flag football and, you know, we played a lot of pickup football at, you know, at recess at school and pickup games in the neighborhood. And I was just, I played, I just played quarterback. I could throw it a little bit better than, than, than the other kids, and I wasn't very fast and I couldn't jump and I couldn't, you know, make any other, you know, great plays. And when I tried to play receiver, I didn't get the ball. And I was like, this sucks. I'm not, I can't get open. And the guy throwing, it's not throwing it very good, so let's just play quarterback. And I probably end up playing, like, permanent quarterback. I'll play for both the teams, and that way it'll be fair. And, and so, yeah, eighth grade, I was a quarterback and but it was always like, even with my parents, there was never. And I guess it was a little different for me because, I mean, I had. Peyton's five years older, so also I'm in eighth grade. You know, he's in college and he's, you know, kind of my whole process, I saw what, what could be ahead, but it was never like, when I was in high school, it was never the goal of. And I'm just working towards playing college football or playing the NFL. It's just, hey, I want to, I want to be the starting quarterback for my high school team. I want to win a state championship. It's all like, in the moment. Maybe kind of my junior senior year is like, hey, it'd be really cool to play college football and I'm not going to play baseball this year so I can get in the weight room and work a little harder at football. But it was really just, you know, so we could, I could be, I could get better and try to win a state championship, which, which never happened. But that, you know, that was kind of always the mindset Eli, it's funny.

Like, I think that's the biggest misconception and misperception of people who have amazingly long, especially athletic careers like you. Like, that's been a common theme with a lot of our guests. Like, I just want to play and be a good teammate and you know, maybe win a state championship. And I think that parents today, they put so much pressure and expectations on their kid that, okay, this is the path of being a pro. Right. And it's like, it's the exact opposite. It's the exact opposite. Like you just play to play. Get as good as you can and the rest will take care of itself.

Right.

The first episode we ever did is so funny. There was a discussion on like the importance of joy, you know, in anything. And we were kind of like, why does it matter? And I actually think this is it, which is it allows you to have duration. It basically, if you're actually having fun with it, you're gonna stick with it for longer, you know. And I think it's like the most underrated thing, which is that like the way you get better at something is the compounding and just kind of keeping on, keeping on. And if you're not having fun, you're just not gonna do it. Like I, I was thinking about this and Eli, like I, I like mentally made a note of the. Be the car that the other kids want to ride in on the way home. Like, that's a great metric. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like that is a great metric to keep, to keep in mind.

You know, just say what's, what's the right way? And you see it a lot in new sports. It's like when, when do you have to go all in on one sport? Totally. You know, and you're getting, it's nuts. Yeah, it's. And you get pressured. You get pressured by the coaches. You get pressured. You see what other families are doing and other kids and you know, my, I'm in kind of the same bait, same boat as you. I mean I have a 14 year old daughter, she's a swimmer, she's lacrosse player. She's doing travel and year round for both that we're trying to do. And, and I'm kind of this, hey, it's, you know, my wife's like, she's got to pick one.

Which one?

What she's gonna do. I'm like, oh, we'll just let her either let, or let her pick it or let it just happen because she won't make an 18 because she's not fully committed or, you know, it's gotta kind of, let's let it play out and it's not our job to make this decision for and, and kind of sit back and, and not do anything. It's like sometimes that's the best thing. Like don't get involved, don't, don't do too much and it'll all just kind of work out and play out and, and you just try to keep them happy. And I think that was always the mindset, like I never wanted to say, hey, you got to go all in on this because I was always scared they might quit. If they're only doing this sport, they're going to get burnt out and quit. And you know, she likes both aspects. Some's a team sport, some's individual, some, you know, you got to go head in the water in a two hour swim practice. Sounds miserable to me, but she likes that. But you know, I like the team aspect stuff but I also like kind of the, the grind of, of hey, it's just you by yourself on a race. There's no, there is no teammate, there's no one to help you out, there's no one to bail you out. It's all, hey, I, I swam well or I didn't swim well, there's no, oh, I played well, but you know, I didn't play well but my teammates helped me get a win. And this is, it's all on, on you.

I think this is such a problem in the country right now is like what you just hit on is this whole early specialization and I think it leads to burnout. I think it's unhealthy. I think there's like, there's so much pressure. And to your point, Shane, I think that's part of the reason obviously kids quit so early. And this is what's crazy is your dad again had the same profession as you and from an outside perspective you think like you, you know, like that this was groomed from birth, but you didn't even play tackle football until you were older than 13. You know, like I, I think that's fascinating, right? And like again that there wasn't this pressure like I'm lucky enough to, to, to know your family and your dad and like this like, I believe he's like, you know, he was one of the guys that like through my injury would reach out constantly and like text me and just like shoot a nice note and I don't know, he's just so thoughtful and I think it's, it's so Funny that there are so many parents out there, I think, that are trying to do this and. And in the end end up like being their own worst enemy.

Eli, I actually had related to that. I learned something today that was crazy about your family and I was curious if what it felt like as a kid. The. It just like came up in my podcast feed. But basically I was learning today that I guess your dad said something in this book, My first coach, right where he said that he retired. I'm going to read you the passage. Okay. It says, I sense that my relationship wasn't quite the same with Eli, that it had been with Cooper and Peyton at that age. Eli was kind of shy anyway, and it might have been harder for Eli to warm up to you. I was gone and I didn't like it at all. I remember that was one of the real joys for me when I retired that when I would be home, I would be around full time for Eli and get that same relationship I had with Cooper and Peyton because it was a good one. I mean, I was shocked. I'd never heard that before. And so I was, you know, and we talk about this a lot as dads of like, what are the things we're participating in? What are the things we're missing? And it's so interesting to me that like, the reason he. One reason he retired was to spend more time with you. Not to like groom you into being a quarterback, but to like have a relationship that was similar to your brother. It's like, did you know that as a kid?

No. And my dad was always around and I think it was just, you know, I was like the third kid that was five years younger than Peyton and seven years younger and Cooper. So when he was still playing, you know, Cooper was. It was 10 years old when he retired. Peyton was 8. So, you know, back then you kind of Saturday practices, you bring your family to practice and so you bring Peyton and Coop and they could run around. But I was three, so it's like you can't bring the three year old. And, and so there was kind of a, you know, I was like, the third child gets left at home all the time, like the two older kids. And I mean, I have it with three kids and also they have like the fourth little boy who's a lot younger. It's like, hey, I'll. I'll bring the three because they can run around and kind of take care of themselves. Like, you know, we'll leave the. We'll leave the fourth one at home just because you Know, you get a babysitter for him because that's too hard. And so I was, I was that. That kind of the baby. The baby in the family and got. And I think why, you know, my mom and I are very, very tight and very close because we always got the one, you know, left with her and, and hanging out and. But I, you know, and my dad, you know, I think he, it was important to him. I think also as he retired and why he didn't go into broadcasting and, and do certain jobs is because he wanted to be around on the weekends. Like, he wanted to coach us in youth basketball. He wanted to be our baseball coach and be, Be there to when we got home from school if you wanted to shoot baskets to, you know, go. Go outside or, you know, throw us some batting practice. Like, he, he wanted to be that dad that was very involved, and that had a big impact on me even as I retired from football, is thinking about what I want to do outside of football. I was like, my dad made a sacrifice to, you know, to be a dad and to be a present dad and to be around, and I recognize that. I see that. I, I, you know, and that's important to me also, so that, you know, things I, you know, I don't want traditional broadcast of being gone every single weekend. In a way, I want to be around and traveling to youth sporting events all, all summer and baseball tournaments and lacrosse and, and all these things. And. And so that's, that's, you know, kind of what I, you know, part of the reason I wanted to become a dad is to, to do these things.

You know, what's crazy about that story is I feel like the more common thing, I don't know, but the more common thing I think I hear with professional athletes is actually that they have, you know, there's this ego or hubris to, like, want to keep playing so that their kids know they had a career. Right. Like, oh, I want to keep playing so that Eli knows that I was an NFL quarterback, you know, like, that, that. So that he can know that, too. And not that, like, no, no. I, I kind of want to end and not go into broadcasting so I can coach his little league team, you know? Right. I think that's so interesting.

It was interesting for me, like, my dad, you know, I was three years old and retired. I didn't really know, like, my dad is a football player. I don't remember him playing. I don't remember, you know, you kind of. I remember going to Saints games growing up and, like, People were coming in and asking for an autograph or a picture. I'm like, that's kind of weird. Like, why? You know why? That's just kind of what dads do. I would, like, go to my friend's dad and, like, ask them for a picture. It's just like, is this what you do? They, like, they sign their name on a piece of paper. Like, I don't get the whole thing. Thing. I was, like, so strange to me. And then it was like, okay, oh, he played. And I see. I see. Like, you know, it was just different. You didn't see highlights all the time. There was no Instagram or. You didn't see these things until, like, all a sudden, I see him, like, getting recognized at halftime. I'm like, oh, he played football. Okay, now it all makes sense Now. I. Now I get it now. You know?

This.

Yeah.

This.

Yeah. This autograph, that of my best friend's dad on my bullet report. Looks a little weird right now. I should take that down.

I recently had that same experience. My daughter. My daughter is 14 years old, so she did not see me play. I've been retired now 11 years. So she. She was 2 or 3 when. When I retired. And she recently went back to Duke with a friend, and she went into Cameron Indoor Stadium. There's the hall of fame right there. She came back saying, dad, like, man, like, you were really good. Like, like, really good. I'm like, I'm trying to tell you about Louisa. He's somebody.

So.

Yeah, you have to listen to me when I tell you something around basketball. Maybe you should listen to me now. Or, you know, I know some things.

Shane's always lamenting how Eloise, who is, by the way, so fun, so cool, so smart, but basically has no tolerance for his sports advice. Like, shut up, dad. You know, I don't care that you played 13 years in the NBA.

Yeah.

And so that's very relatable for.

For. For all of us, 100%. So what's your.

What's your advice to the young people that you mentor at the Manning Passing Academy? You know, it's different with your. With your own kids. And now you. You have. You have young, Young, young men, you know, maybe young ladies now, that are. Have champagne dreams, as we call it. So what's your. What's your advice to. To aspiring young athletes that are not your kids?

Is it the same? Right. I think playing multiple sports is good and is healthy until. Until there's maybe a point where you just know. You're like, you know, What I want to. I want to go play college basketball. I want to play college football. You know, this is. This is it. And I'm going to work, you know, extremely hard at this. And this. This is my passion. And. And at that point, I think it's okay, because then it's. It's like, on you. You. You've made the decision. This is what I want to do. This is my dream, and I want to. I want to chase this. Now, even as you go along that dream, I think it's okay to. You know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna work really hard to be a, you know, a football player. But you know what? I want to still play basketball for my high school, if that's still possible. Like, you know, some high schools are huge. You can't do it. There's too many. But some are small. So I think it's okay to, you know, still play some of these other sports and do that. And that's, you know, I guess that's. That's what I did. And, you know, but it's also. Every sport is a little bit different. I mean, there's some sports. I mean, Alex, you kind of know it with football. You can't play multiple sports. It's like. And you can come into football very late. You could be a great basketball player, and you can run and you can jump and you can fast. And, you know, in a married high school, I'd like, see this kid. I'm like, all right, you should come play receiver. And like, you could. They can. They can adjust into that, you know, their senior year of high school. You know, if you want to play hockey, like, you can't do that. If you want to be a swimmer, you can't just, like, jump in the pool and do it. But I think it is fun to, like, kind of have your sport that you work extremely hard at and you are committed to and you want to improve every day. But it's also fun to, you know, play that sport where it's just, hey, I'm just playing this for the fun. I'm not grinding on this. I'm not staying after two. Two hours after to shoot free throws and. And to be a college player. But I still want to be a part of the team. And if I can be the sixth man or I can just have, you know, just stay healthy and. And have something. As you're young and play other sports, if you have that opportunity, I still. I think you should. You should take that and pursue that.

Just be a glue guy. Just hustle, play defense, rebound, you know, exactly.

Like, find your role, find your position on the team. What, whatever it might be. No doubt.

What's the, what's the version of getting, like, shots up after practice in football?

I think usually it's staying after with like one receiver. It's like, hey, we, we missed this, we missed this route at practice. Let's, let's, let's throw five of them in a row and just like, kind of get it where, you know, we always kind of talked about when you, when you, when you rep a route or rep something with a guy, like, you don't practice it until you get it right. You practice it until you can't get it wrong. Like, that's like, when you just, like, you can't miss this. Like, there's like, I, I got, we're so dialed in on this. I see the stick, I see the break, I'm throwing it to the spot, and you just know exactly where, where it is and you feel comfortable. So I think that's kind of. Usually it is. You know, it's different in basketball. You can't like, go out there and say, hey, I'm, you know, basketball, you say, I'm going to shoot 100 free throws and make it. You can't go out there and like, I'm just gonna throw this ball at a net 100 times. It's like, you know, you need a moving target, you need, you need your receiver or a couple receivers out there to kind of run some routes and do some things for you.

Eli, when you went, when you went to New York, you said that that was kind of like the first time you felt like it was different. It wasn't just like the game that you had, you know, loved and played as you're young, right? You're 21, 23.

23 red shirted.

So take us there. Like, what was it like? What was it like to feel that at the beginning? How did you get through it? How did you maintain your sense of self? Like, all that struggle.

No, there were some definite struggles the first couple years in New York and it was the first time where I felt like, you know, like, necessarily everybody wasn't on your side, like, promoting, you know, helping you, you know, in Colle. You know, you know, you're in a small town, you're an Oxford, Mississippi. All the writers are on, on your side. They want you to do well. They're fans of the program. You know, there's, there's outside and ESPN that might not be, but like, John, your Local guys, the guys you're seeing every day, you're hanging out with, you're talking to your teammates, your coaches. Like, everybody is on your side. They're, you know, and rooting for you. Also, you get to New York and there's 100 reporters and local reporters, and, like, they're out for. For blood. Like, they want the big, juicy story that, like, I don't think this guy's gonna make it. They, like, they want that to be able to say that. And you're just like, wow, like, I gotta see this guy every day. And he's just, like, ripping me in the paper. And, like, how am I supposed to put on this face? And, like, I know what. I'm struggling, and I'm going through a tough time, and I'm trying to kind of grind my way out of it and. And just, you know, how do. How do I get through this and get better and make the adjustments? And it just, you know, can just take a little longer. And so. And like, having that, you know, it can kind of hit your confidence real quickly. And. And it was an adjustment to. To overcome that and to just grind through it and relied heavy on my coaches, on my teammates, on my family, to kind of just, you know, make sure my confidence was staying up and one mistake wasn't leading to another mistake. Or you get gun shy, or you get kind of scared to go out there and. And. And, you know, hey, you know, when you're. When you're in quarterback and you're in. You're thinking, don't throw an interception. It's like the worst thing. It's like, you get. You, like, throw an intercept. You're like, I'm scared to throw it. Yeah, I'll just throw it right to the guy. It's like the weirdest, like, worst feeling. And it happens every once in a while, and you can't. You know, you can't play that way. But you just get. I, you know, just kind of get tentative and. And it just. It doesn't. It doesn't end well.

We need to click. And you're like, okay, I'm. I'm a made man. You know, hey, this.

The.

The criticism's not.

I'm.

I belong here.

Was there.

Was there a point when you kind of settled down and took a deep breath, like, man, I'm just gonna go play my game.

First year was tough. Second year, we went 11 and 5, and it was like, you know, we. We won. But the, you know, the losses were tough. Went to the playoffs, lost next year. Went to the playoffs, lost first playoff game. So, you know, it's kind of that fourth year it was still, you know, kind of, you know, a maker done season for me. Like, hey, is this the. Is it? You know, they're saying, is this the guys coach Coughlin, the coach, like we came in together and, and if they don't gonna make a run or win some playoff games, are they, are they gonna be done? Are you gonna be out in New York? And we lost our first two games, kind of went on a win streak. We won six in a row. Then we had four bad losses and we get into the playoffs. But it was that year we make a playoff run in 07 and beat Tampa, beat Dallas, go to Green Bay and win and you know, now at that point, you know, you know, win the super bowl, go beat Green Bay. But I mean we're in week, you know, week 16 and you know, have to have to beat Buffalo to, you know, make a playoff spot. We played New England Week 17. You know, who's undefeated at the time. We're like, hey, we got to win this game. And it's almost like if I don't win that game in Buffalo, who knows, like I might have been shipped out of town. You know, it's. It's crazy to think like how it's one game. Yeah, I mean one game can make the difference. Eight, all right, that's. Now you're playing somewhere else and you're moving around or you know, it's just like how fragile and how, you know, little things can make such a big difference in having a 16 year career, one spot or maybe having a four year career in New York and, and who knows what happens after that.

I think within that, because I've told these guys a lot, like I, I had such a similar experience like being drafted number one. Like I came from freaking the mountain west, right? Like I never even thought I could play pro and then drafted number one and like I went to San Francisco, right? Like, I mean it's a big market, but it is not New York City. I mean maybe the biggest sports media market in the world. Your older brother by the way, basically is the greatest number one pick of all time. And you got to be just like him. And there's so much like the, the expectations, like the pressure to perform. And then I think the unique thing that I think is really cool with you is like that you just have always, I think been so. You seem so comfortable and calm with who you are. Right. And has that always been there despite all of that, right? Like, all those expectations.

Yeah, I think so. I think that's something that I. You know, my.

My.

My parents talked a lot about that. Just that, you know, you got to be true to yourself. You got to be, you know. You know, they knew I was very different than Peyton, and it was always kind of related because, you know, I was following behind Peyton, and, you know, we had the same kind of high school coaches and even the same. The same, you know, his offense coordinator, Tennessee, was my head coach at Ole Miss. So, like, same coaches and, you know, everybody knew we were. We were very different personalities. And my parents, you know, they said, hey, you gotta. Don't try to be someone you're not. And I think that was kind of always. The mindset is that, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna kind of do it my way. This is the way I. I feel comfortable doing. This is the way I want to do it. And I think I kind of realized I kind of made a decision probably, like, in high school, some point, that, I mean, Peyton was the Gatorade player of the year. He's the number one high school player of the year. He's up for the Heisman in college. He's the first pick in the NFL draft. I'm like, all right, I can't be that. Like, there's zero chance I'm going to be better than that. So, like, stop trying to do it exactly like he did or try to be better than him. I got to be the best that I can be. I got to be the best teammate I can be. I'm going to work hard to, you know, win as many games and do it my way and be, you know, totally committed and dedicated. But I'm not trying to be better than my brother. That's not the goal in this. I'm just trying to beat the other team. I'm trying to make improvements, and that's. That's all I was worried about. And I think that was, like, a big relief to me, like, not always trying to live up to someone else's expectations. Say, this is how I do it. This is how I work. This is my mentality. This is how I lead. And it's. It's going to be different than my brother.

This is where, like, game selection, we talk about this all the time. Like, what game are you playing? Because, like, the problem is if you're playing somebody else's game, right, it sucks. Or if you're playing the game, you could imagine playing of, like, I'm Competing against my brother rather than just like trying to play the game like I'm trying to win as many games as possible. I'm trying to be as good as I can be. It's just like so much of, so much of the choice that goes into, like how good your life is is what games you're choosing to play and you know what I'm saying, what games you're choosing to try and excel at.

Yeah, I mean, I think putting extra pressure on yourself to be better than someone else is not that, not going to help you. It's just about, you know, working hard to be the best that you use all the ability you have the best you can and, and, and feel comfortable with that and, and saying, hey, I did all I could possibly do to win that game and to prepare and to get better. And, and that's, that's all that really matters. If you can say that to yourself, then you've done a good job.

So like, who, who do you lean on? Like besides your parents? Right. I mean that, the expectation, there's, there's no one that knows what your shoes feel like.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Like on, who do you talk to and say like, hey, help me figure this out. Because, you know, mentorship's such a huge part of all of our stories. Like who, who's your mentor outside your family?

Yeah, I mean my college coach, David Cutcliffe has been a great mentor and you know, a guy I had great respect for and he was actually a person. I go, I would go see him every off season for like a three day kind of minicamp before I started back with the Giants and just say, coach, you know, you've been, you know, I went to Tennessee Football Camp when I was 13 years old, so he's been seeing me throw the football since I was 13. And I go back and, and every year is the same, even into my 16th year in the NFL. Go back, see coach cut and say, treat me like I'm an 18 year old freshman. Let's do. He talked about doing the common things uncommonly well. And that's just like, hey, where do you hold the ball? Where are your eyes as you're taking a snap? Where's your first step on your drop? Where are your mechanics? And like, just make sure I wasn't getting little bad habits that were going to affect me and lead to other problems or why you might miss a throw. And so we just go through those three days and that was like kind of my, my, my checkup before we start the season. And if something was going bad, kind of call upon him, hey, what do you see? Can you watch a, you know, a game real quick? Do you see something mechanic wise? And I think that was great. Also kind of my fourth year in the NFL, I, it was so funny. I, you know, I hired a sports psychologist and it was such like a big deal. Like, you know, we talked to the, like the owners of the Giants and Tom Coughlin knew about it and they're like, don't tell anybody. Don't tell you. Don't tell other coaches. Don't tell your teammates. Don't, you know, like, keep this quiet. Like, we don't want people to think there's something wrong with you. Like, we think this is good. Like, we think, but we don't want, like, it get out there. Like, we don't want the media to find out, you know, and they'll just have a field day. I mean, it's just like how, how much has changed in the last, you know, that's 18 years ago, but like now, you know, every team has a sports psychologist and most players, like, come in with one. And they have it in high school and probably in college. They have them. And this is in the NFL in the biggest market, and they're trying to do a job that only 32 other people are doing. It's like, don't tell anybody. Like, this is super quiet. That is.

Did you work with somebody, dude?

No.

But like, this is the point. Like, this is. And I feel like this, I felt this so much. I was drafted the year after Eli and we had the same agent. It was like, you know, it was kind of like, follow this road map. Like, for me, like, just do, do what Eli did. And to your point, is a lonely place. Like, when you're. You're the only starting quarterback. Like, you're there, there's not like, necessarily anybody else. You're playing early, there's no one to learn from and like, model that behavior. You don't even really know what it looks like up close to be an NFL starting quarterback. Like, I told you guys this, I didn't even know what I was doing in the film room. I would just be in there for hours, just like wasting time. And to this point, though, this is what's crazy. So you're, the expectation of toughness. Like, I just buried it, right? Like, I just tried to like, pretend like I was strong and tough. But meanwhile, here's Eli. So he has, he has like, the awareness to go get a coach. By the way, let me just State. This. Eli has one of the greatest records in football of consecutive starts. He is one of the toughest dudes in the history of the NFL. However, his old school coaches are like, oh, God, you know, have a mental coach to help you prepare. We gotta hide. You know what I'm saying? Like, think about the, like, the craziest.

Of those two things.

Like, that's insane.

Well, I was just lucky. My. My quarterback coach, Mike Sullivan, was an old West Point guy. I went to West Point. And so that's. That's where. Talking to him, he knew a sports psychologist from West Point, and he's the one that kind of said, this could be something, like, good just to have this guy, just to. To know, like, he saw it firsthand, like, what you're dealing with every year in the. In the season and this. And so it kind of started in that off season going into my fourth year, and kept it on and kept, you know, Nate Zinser, you know his name. Kept him for. For 15 years, 16 years or no, I guess 12 years. But my. The rest of my time with the Giants, it's just, you know, like you said, Alex, it's a lonely place. And you don't. You can't talk to really, anybody else about it. You can't talk to your best friends about it. You can't talk. It talks your parents a little bit about. It's different. Peyton was a great resource just because he's kind of, you know, he's going through the same deal and. And like, just, you know, talking X's and O's, talking practice, talking the situation of, like, why you threw this interception. If you tell your buddies, they're like, I have no idea what you're talking about. It looks like you just threw it right to the defender. I'm like, yeah, but it was this coverage, and they're a blitzing. There's a guy, like, running about to hit me in the face. And the receiver cut his route short. They're like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

But.

And so just to have someone just kind of spitball and just to kind of get it off your chest and. And to kind of figure out, well, how do you. How do you make those adjustments? How do you make changes? How do you get comfortable maybe suggesting something to an offensive coordinator to a hit, you know, to your, you know, kind of quarterback coach, and I think, you know, there's got to get. You kind of got to get comfortable saying, hey, coach, I don't like this play. And like that. That's like a big step I think in a quarterback in an athlete's career, when they can say it and. But, like, give a reason why instead of just like, I don't like it. Not don't run it, but, like, coach, I. I just don't. I don't feel comfortable to play. I don't understand, like, the timing of it. Can we just keep working on it for a few more weeks and not run it this week? You know, hey, these are the plays I really like. And it took me probably until that kind of third, fourth year before I. I could kind of feel confident enough that, hey, I've earned the right in my studying, in my playing time that I can suggest some of these plays and, and really say, you know, hey, I don't. I don't like this play. And instead of, like, sabotaging it or, you know, you know, even though the coach just like, hey, we got this great new play. Love it. We're putting it in. And to be like, actually, yeah, I don't think so. And. And it was. It was a good. It was like, once it happened, it was great because the coach would be like, hey, I don't want to run plays that you don't like. Like, we're in this together. This is not me versus you. Like, we are on the team. I want to run stuff that you're comfortable with. If you don't. If you don't like something, hey, let's talk through it a little bit more. Let's rep it a few more times in practice. And, and, and if he, you know, truly believes in it, he could probably convince me why it's good or, oh, okay, now I get it. Like, you want it versus coverage. Okay, got it. And. And let's move on. So this having that open communication was a huge part of kind of the next steps in. In my. In my career.

I think there's, like, power in also talking through some of that stuff and, like, processing it. Right. I don't know about you, E, but, like, instead, when I was young, I wouldn't talk to anybody about it or couldn't. And so you develop, like, I almost feel like scar tissue or like demons. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, I threw a pick on. I threw a pick six on that one. And, like, I'm not throwing that bad boy again. Like, don't you know what I'm saying?

Like, take that play out. Never run it again. Work.

Work through the process of it. Like, I was, like, scarred for the rest of my career. Yeah. Fourteen years ago, I threw a Pick on that play. So don't put it in.

So 2007, all right? Confetti Falls. Your Super Bowl MVP, you. You beat the, you know, the Juggernaut Patriots, all right? You wake up the next morning. What. What's different? What's different about your life? What's different about your career? How do you. How do you. How do you think about, you know, your legacy? Where do you go from that? The next morning?

Man, I. I think it was a fun. It was a fun celebration in New York for that, for that next month. And just, you know, I was 27, I was engaged. I was going to get married that off season with, With. To my wife. You know, it was a bunch of my. All, like, my best. My teammates. We were pretty young, all came in together. You know, all of us are 27, 20, 28, 29 years old. And, and so, like, you feel like you're on top of the world, but also on top of the world with some of your best friends, guys you've been playing for four years with. And, And. And kind of built, you know, kind of. Obviously, when I, you know, came in four years before they had the fourth pick in the draft, the reason you have the fourth pick, you're. You're a terrible team. And now we're, you know, here we're winning championships. Like, we've changed the culture of, Of. Of the, of the program, of the team a little bit. And, and so that was. That was awesome. And I think there's, like, enjoying that moment. I think I could finally kind of take a breath in the sense of, like, all right, this guy's proved that he deserved to be the first pick. He deserves to be our quarterback. And, and so you can relax a little bit on that sense of not being worried about that. It doesn't make you, like, not work hard. I mean, there's. There's a sense, you know, after you win a championship, it's not like, oh, done that. Don't. Don't. I don't want to do that again. No, you're like, oh, I want to chase that again. Like, this is a great, like, you know, high. You know, that. That's month of celebration. All of. All of February is. Is unbelievable. And then it's like, all right, back to March. Let's get back to work and let's. Hey, boys, let's. Let's do it again. Like that. That. I wanna. I wanna experience that again. That playoff run of being the only teams that are practicing during the months of, Of January, going on the road Winning a playoff, you know, home game, like, all these things, like you want to do it again. So I think it, it actually amps up the drive to, in your, in your preparation and your work ethic to, to experience it and win more championships.

Hey, Eli, on that I just heard as, as you were talking, I. The kind of part that stuck with me was the, like, let's go boys. Let's go do it again. I just realized that your leadership style, I don't think we've talked about it, of like, what was it, you know, what, what is your normal personality like? And then as a leader of the team, was it the extension of your normal personality or were you kind of a different thing? Alex has told us at different points that like, being quarterback is a little bit like playing a part in a play. You know, like you have to income, you know, you, you, you're different in the role than you are at home. I actually have no idea what you're like, you know, in the locker room versus at home.

Yeah, I was never, I'm never a big rah rah guy. Wasn't. I wasn't. Like, I didn't want to have to give necessarily. Like the pre game talk. Like, we had Michael Strahan, like, he's gonna get the team fired up. Like, let him do that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to the offense. I'm gonna get them, you know, each, each, each day of the week. I wanted to be in front of like, on, like, hey, on Thursday, I'm gonna be in the offensive line room and I'm gonna have 15 plays and we're gonna go through all these protections and different looks and I want to kind of hear their calls, hear my calls, get on the same game plan for everything. Coming up Friday, I'm going to be in the receiver room, have again, 15 plays that I've picked out. We're going to watch. Hey, Victor Cruz, what are you going to do on this, on this route? On this look, hey, this is this overload blitz. If I double point this guy, I need a hot Victor. Like, they got some problems. They do some blitzes we can't pick up. This is the look, you know, hey, Keem, this is how they're, you know, this is how they're playing their man, you know, for. If we throw the go route, if they're playing over the top, be ready for the back shoulder. Like, I want to kind of see them. I want to hear their voice also. I want to get them talking. And so it kind of you know, my leadership was more like on preparation, you know, and I want to hear. It's not all just coming from the coaches. It's coming from me, but also coming from them. And we're working on this together to get the game plan of, you know, of what we're doing. And then it was just on a gum, you know, kind of during. During hard work and, you know, grind at practice. Hey, you kind of come in the cafeteria, in the locker room, it's relaxed, it's laughing, it's. It's smiling, it's. It's, you know, just try to, you know, kind of. Kind of pretty, you know, just, I don't know, not. Not never not goofy, but just, you know, try to have fun, you know, make fun of people. If someone fell down on a route, someone. Something funny had happened at practice, like, I'm gonna bring that up. I'm not gonna let these things slide, slide away. And, you know, if something's funny, let's laugh at it and. And kind of know. Know the time when it's time to grind, when it's time to enjoy each other and understand we're playing a game and we're in room together for eight hours a day in meeting rooms. There's got to be a time to enjoy and laugh and. And. And have some fun, or else we're all drive ourselves crazy.

Your streak of 210 games comes to an end. All right? Week 13. All right, 2017. Like, I. I knew it was time for me to move on from basketball. The first time that I didn't play the last five minutes of the game, right? Like, I didn't score a lot of points and, and, you know, had the highlight plays, but I always played the last five minutes every game since kindergarten. And when that was taken away, like, that was like. Like just pulling. Pulling the knife out of my. Out of my chest. Right? So walk us through that day. You know, going. Going to the game knowing you're not starting, all right, Knowing the streaks coming to an end. Like, how did you process that?

It was. Yeah, it was. It was tough. And it's that. That conversation of getting told, you know, that week of. Of kind of practice where, you know, he's actually. It was. I was told that, hey, you're gonna. You'll start, but you're. We're gonna take you out of the game at. At some point. And I was like, oh, you know, like. Like when. Like at halftimes? Like, yeah, definitely by halftime. I'm like, what if we're up 28 nothing. And like. Or 28, 27 and tight game. But, yeah, I've done four touchdowns, and we're, like, playing great. He's like, yeah, you're getting. You're getting pulled. I'm like, well, why am I starting the game? It's like, well, the streak. I'm like, well, that's. That's. That's not happening. Like, I'm not playing for a streak. You're like, if you want me to be the. The quarterback, do you think I'm gonna help win this game? Then I'll be the guy. If you want to make a move, then, like, you got to make a move. Like, that's, That's. That's. This is like, I'm not gonna. That's just the integrity of the game. And, and how do I prepare? It's not a preseason game. How do I prepare for a quarter or a half of a game? Like, that's just. And so. And then they said, all right, well, then, you know, we'll start someone else. And so it was tough. You're just like. You see, like, the. The in the end coming, and you don't know if it's, you know, the. Into your career that is. That your last game you're gonna play, you're gonna start again. You don't know what that circumstance. So it's a lot of. It's a lot of tears. You know, it's. It's tough just because of, you know, what. What you've put into it and what the game means to you and your teammates. And, I mean, you're super MVP twice.

You know, you've done. And it's.

It's. Yeah.

At that moment, you're like, dude, have you forgotten everything I've done for you? I've given, literally, like, my body and my soul for you. And this is. This is how you're going to treat me right now?

You know, it's a crushing.

It's a crushing feeling. It's okay. It's completely human.

It's crushing. No, it hurts. It hurts. It hurts a lot. And. But you just. You say, well, hey, I'm going to be a good teammate. I'm going to. I'm going to, hey, help out the next guy and. And just do my role. What's my role now? And I've been through every role. I've been a backup, I've been a starter, and now, hey, I'm a backup this week. You know, this is. Someone else has a chance. I'm not going to make it awkward for them. I'm not going to make it awkward in the team. I'm not gonna, you know, throw a big fuss and, and quit and leave. I'm just that I'm, you know, take it, take it, stand up, take it like a man and do, do what my job is and, and what my responsibilities are.

We talk a lot about transitions and transitions are tough, obviously, for, you know, athletes. At some point we all like, your career ends and you got to step away and do something else and figure out life after ball. And, you know, Ravi's transitioned multiple times in his career as well. And I think obviously most people do, but how have you viewed that? I'm so curious. You know, you, you seem to, you got, you do a lot. You're, you're in a lot, you, like, you seem to have really be thriving away from the game. And I don't know how have you approached that?

I guess from you, you do seem.

Way more like, comfortable post career than a lot of really high performing athletes. You know what I'm saying? And so I, that is very interesting.

I think, I think I was always a little, a little being in New York and being in this, in the media, in the spotlight, I was always a little con, you know, worried about, you know, kind of letting my true personality be seen because whatever, it can be a little nonchalant, it can be a little goofy or, and I never wanted like the New York media to think, hey, I wasn't serious, or he's goofy because, like, once you get betrayed, one thing in New York, like, it's stuck. Like, that's, that's what you are. And, and so I was always like, you know, just never let them kind of see that side of me, what, how I was maybe with my teammates or with my pals or with my family. And so I think once I retired from football, and then, you know, my brother's like, hey, do you want to watch football on Monday nights from your couch and make fun of me? I'm like, yeah, that sounds awesome. I can do that. That sounds great. I, I, at that. I, I love watching football and making fun of you. I got so many jokes that I've been saving up for years that I've never said, like, let's go. And I think I was like, all right, I can just, I can just like be myself and, and just, you know, don't have to worry about someone saying, oh, he's not serious or he's not silly or getting like, labeled a certain way. Like, I, I can just, boom, just let it Let it all out.

Well, you, like, you are hilarious. Like, yeah. And you, you have a gift that I'm, I'm, I'm happy that you're sharing with the world. And I think the world would agree. Were you always this funny or was this something that like just sort of evolved naturally as you got older and more, more, more Succsuccessful?

Youngest of three.

You know, I think always just listening. I was always kind of quiet, shy and this listening, absorbing, taking it all in. And if like something needed to be said, I'll say it. But I'm never gonna be like the guy talking for no reason. But if someone says something like totally ridiculous or like, I'm like, no, no, you know, like, boom, attack right there. Let's bring attention to what you just said and like, let's really think about this. Did you really just say that? Like, no, no, not, not that I let that, you know, fly and not to let that slide. So I think it's more just kind of like, yeah, love giving, you know, is, you know, if someone says something stupid, says something wrong, like attack and really kind of give someone a hard time about that and then kind of go quiet a little bit and just wait for the next opportunity to, to, to go at it. So, and it's great with like, Peyton is a talker. Like he's gonna say stuff, he's gonna, he's gonna, you know, have his opinions on everything and, and, and, and so kind of know like where he might be going. As I see something, I'm like, I hope he says this. Like I, I, I know where he should be going and I'm ready, ready to attack.

Well, Eli, on that. One of my things that I love so much about watching you guys is like, I have three sons, okay? And so watching you guys like have fun as grown ups and as dads, like, and work together and kind of mess around with each other. That to me is the most inspiring thing about the Mannings is you guys actually all seem to like each other, you know, and want to spend time together. And I think that as a dad, like, man, I'd be so happy if my kids are doing something together when they're older and you know, messing around with each other and laughing and doing it as a group and having there be some identity to what it means to be, you know, a Gupta, the way it means something to be a Manning. And so I'll just tell you, like, it's not the football, it's not all the other success. It's like the relationship you have with Your family. That is the thing that I find to be most inspirational about you guys.

Oh, well, it's. It's. It's fun. I mean, getting to work with. With my. With Peyton on a lot of things. Cooper, our oldest brother, we get him involved a lot with our guests that come on the show, like, you know, helping us write a few questions. He's more probably informed on what's, you know, kind of the music and. And TV and personality. He's got a great personality. So we all get involved in it and kind of. I think we all. Yeah, we've been in the locker room situation. We. We know, like, making fun of each other is. Is funny and we're not sensitive about it. Like, we can. We can go at each other a little bit. And, you know, I think Peyton knows that he's like a psycho a little bit on his. Honest on his prep. And like, he leaves these voice memos. Like, I don't know, have y' all ever worked. Have you ever done something with paid? I'm sure eventually y' all do like a. You'll do some sort of show or something with. With Peyton. And he leaves like, he. He left me a voice memo today. Like a. Like a six minute. So like, not a voicemail. He's not calling me and leaving a message like, hey, what's up? Like, it's a text message that he leaves a voice recording about, like, what's going on. But when you do like a game kick plan, Alex, he'll leave me a 35 minute voice memo. Like, who has 35 minutes to listen to someone tell you what's going on? I'm like. And like, right away, I'm like, just send me the Cliff Notes. Like, I'll text them back. Like, need Cliff notes of the 35 minute voicemail. Not listening. You know, like, it's just like, who. I mean, I was like, it's like on a game film that, you know, he watched and he's leaving me the notes and I'm like, it's quicker for me to just watch the film than listen to your voice memo. Like, come on, we gotta. We gotta work on this a little bit.

I feel like Shane has a little bit of that. Alex, in our crew, the most likely person to leave a 35 minute voice memo is for sure, brother bad.

You can never be too thorough, Eli. You can never be thorough.

I hear you.

I know. And it's good. Like, and I. And I appreciate it. And it's what made him so good. And, you know, this is.

My brother. And me. You and Alex are the younger brothers, and that's why it's like, you just give us the TLDR. I don't. I don't need the 35 minute.

Yeah.

Voice memo.

Piss poor performance. All right, Write that down.

There we go. I like it.

Where does the. Where does the heckling come from in the Manning family? Because you guys, like, to this point of being funny, and, like, you got. I. I know this started young because I've been around you guys. It's so natural. I was with Peyton last week, and he had to. He had to get up and speak, and he roasted everybody in the room, right? Like, it wasn't actually even a speech. He just took the time to, like, make fun of people in the room, and it was amazing. But, like, where is it? Is it from your mom, your dad? Like, where does it come from?

I'd say probably. Probably my dad in the sense, like, my dad is a great storyteller, and he. He loves, like, you know, we always. You know, back when you sat down and had, like, a family dinner, and, you know, every. Every night when we said, like, family dinner, my dad would just, you know, it was, like, storytelling time. He would tell old, great stories about teammates, funny things that happened. And then, you know, probably my oldest brother Coop, got into it, and he was. He got really good at telling stories that what happened, whatever happened at school or whatever happened in practice, and, like, you kind of didn't know if it was true or not true. And you just. You kind of quickly learned, like, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. And so, you know. Yeah. And so then it kind of got, like, all right, heckling each other and little roast and mini roast. And so, you know, Peyton, I've seen. Yeah, Peyton's good. I've seen him at some. At some events where he get. You know, get up and, like, he has his, like, 15 people, and you're just kind of, you know. You know it's coming, and you just. You hope your name does not get called. You're like, oh, he said my name. Like, this is. This isn't good. Where's he going with this? So, yeah, I think it's.

I told. I totally started slinking when in the room, I'm like, oh, God, don't be. Don't. Please don't say my name. Luckily, he just made fun of Larry Fitzgerald's tight pants.

That's a common theme. I made. Larry sent me a picture the other day of, like, it was a picture picture Of Peyton, Larry ny. It's one of those clips that came up on his phone. It said, like, four years ago, it was us together, and he's wearing these tight white pants. I was like, you know, it's my. Larry, can you still fit into those. Those pants? I don't think he could.

Nope.

Worldwide fits.

Yeah.

How do you want people to remember you in your career?

You know, I think, you know, I. I think that, like, the consecutive streak thing is. Is. Was important to me, and I was never, you know, it was never like, the goal right when I started, hey, you know, I want a consecutive streak. But I think it's just like, the fact that, hey, I was always there. Like, I always showed up. I was dependable. You could count on me. There's like, if there's one thing, it's like, hey, he's gonna. He's gonna be prepared, and he's gonna. He's just. He was. He was there for us, and he was gonna, you know, he was gonna put everything. He was gonna be at practice, and he was gonna be a good teammate. And so I think that's like, you know, probably the most important thing, what my teammates would say about me, rather than what, you know, other players in the NFL or media or anybody else. It's like, hey, what are your teammates? You know, when they. When they talk about you, what they say, what. What's their response? That's. That would always be the most important thing to me, just being accountable.

Quarterbacks don't get many times to be tough, you know, and, man, that streak. I know, I know you played through some crazy injuries through that streak, and so hats off, tough man. Yep.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Just. And the dependable. That's a cool way to think about wanting to be remembered. Like, I was there, you know, that's awesome.

Just there. That's half the battle sometimes showing up.

Yeah.

Eli, one thing we. To wrap up, we. We always ask our guests, you know, the show's called Glue Guys. And, you know, the people of. There's teams everywhere and families and the people that. That make teams work and succeed and. And do the little things. Who. Who are some of the Glue guys, Glue people in your life.

You know, there's always. Always some teammates that. That were just, you know, guys you could. You could depend on. Like, hey, you're going through those tough moments. Like, who's the one that's going to reach out during those tough moments? You know, Sean o' Hare was my center for. With the Giants for. For Eight years and, you know, still. Still one of my best friends. Do a lot of work with them. And, And, And I think this, you know, one of those guys, you know, we would, you know, every, Every, you know, it was every. Every Wednesday night while we were playing, like he was. We come in the quarterback center is always like a unique closeness. Like, my hands are in some places they've never been on another man before. So there's already like a, A bond and. But then, like, hey, you know, we got to speak the same language as we're seeing film. And he's want to know, hey, why are you making this call? What are we doing? And so just like that time together, you know, time, you know, in each other's, you know, weddings and, and, you know, our kids are growing up together. So just one of those guys that always, Always good to have around, but always just, you know, he was always going to have your back. And I think especially with that New York media, like, he needed some guys, you know, to like, make an excuse to why something went wrong. Hey, you know, you know, Eli through two interceptions and, you know, Sean would be the guy. Yeah, but the receivers both, you know, ran the wrong routes on both of them, you know, like, even though he didn't know what the hell is going on as an offensive, it's live. But like, just like, no, that was our fault. Like, he would take. Oh, we didn't block well enough. Like, you know, and so, you know, once you got like a group of guys that kind of understand that, like, hey, got. You gotta. Sometimes you gotta take the heat off these other guys. Like, media is gonna be hard on this guy. He, you know, kick or miss the field goal. Hey, how. How do we get the attention away from that and say, hey, well, it's our job. We. We should have. We should have, you know, got the third down anyway. Like, we had a third and two and we, you know, didn't block the will, and that's why we had to kick the field goal. That's on us. We should have converted, you know, just little things like that. So I think. And he was one of those guys kind of always, you know, kind of doing that with everybody. And. And so, you know, just. It's good to have those teammates, those friends that. That are. You kind of know they're going to be lifelong friends.