Is Phillip Rivers Having the Most Incredible NFL Comeback Ever? [Glue Guys, Ep. 62]

This is so historic. I mean, this guy's a grandpa.

Yeah, I think so.

44. And that he can come back. This has never been done, like, again, five years retired, that I can come out and do this still. Like, I can still play one last rodeo kind of thing. I have never heard of anything like this. All right, fellas, on the. I know I texted this to you guys the other day, but my mind is, like, blown. I can't get this out of my. That Philip Rivers signed with the Indianapolis Colts at 44 years old. Right? And I know this spurred some discussion, and I know we're not just going to talk about Philip Rivers. We're going to, you know, obviously. But in general, this idea of, like, career comebacks, right, in any industry, not just sports, and this one in a football context, I think is absolutely historic. I have never heard of anything like this. This man is 44 years old. Obviously, Tom. Tom played this age, you know, and played old. But this guy's been retired for five years now, okay? He has 10 kids. He has a grandson. All right? He last played in the 2020 NFL season. That's when I played. Right? This is why it's actually, like, I'm. I'm so confused because you guys, you know, Robbie, you text me. I got the exact same text from my brother. Like, hey, Alex, have the Colts called you? You know, I mean, are you a.

Little offended that they didn't call? A little bit. Like, I mean, you played as Philip Rivers. I don't know, like, you're not a grandpa.

No, I'm not offended. I am not. Okay.

Just feels like I might have been a little offended if they didn't.

And I actually have, like, very good connectivity to the Colts. Right? Like, I. I good friends with their gm, Gris Ballard. I've worked with him for a long time. Like, I. I think he's amazing. No, he did not call me or text me about that, I should say. But, like, I just kind of want to, like, lay it out in context. Okay, again, that this guy's been coaching high school football, right? He played 17 seasons in the NFL.

Be very clear.

He was drafted the year before me. He played 17 seasons, 16 with the Chargers. His last season, he did play with the Colts. So again, the connectivity to the Colts. He played for the Colts. Then head coach Frank Reich. They won 11 games his last season. Right. This guy is seven.

First. First ballot hall of Famer.

Absolutely agree. I agree. He's seventh all time on the passing list. This man has your beloved Bears, Ravi, who have Never had a 4,000yard passer at quarterback ever in the history. Ever. This man. This man has 12 of them on his own 12 4, 000 yard seasons. He's like an absolute baller. Baller.

But.

Okay, and.

But there's one glaring omission. Yeah, there's one glaring omission in his resume, which I want to hear your. Your thoughts. This might. This might be why he's putting his body and his family's, you know, honor on the line. How many super bowl rings does he have?

I'm holding up a zero with my hands just.

Just to make sure that I'm on the same page here. There's so much to talk about. I'm very excited about this topic. And just come back in general, just so I understand what string quarterback is Philip Rivers coming back to be?

No, no. So he worked out on Monday night.

They.

They put him through a workout, which I can. I wish I was there to see, I think. And they signed him work out well enough. He still threw it good enough that they signed him to practice squad. Now, that's deceiving because with the new rules in the NFL, practice squad, you can get. He could get elevated to the active roster, like the day, then, like Saturday night. Right. Like it.

Okay.

Practice squad used to be. There used to be this big separation. There is no longer, like, he can get bumped up, like, right before the game. And he could be starting. It would depend on how quickly he knows the offense, how quickly he could prove that.

Like, do you think they're signing him to potentially play Alex or to back up Riley Leonard?

Okay, well, the. The Athletic put out this big article talking to Frank Wright again, his former coach, who had just got off the phone with him. This. He talk to him this week. He's close with Shane Sten. So this is also the connectivity Shane Steichen coached. He was at the Chargers for six seasons. Right. With Philip.

Right.

He knows Philip well. He was an assistant under Frank Reich. Like, they run the exact same offense. And I think his idea was that potentially Philip doesn't play this weekend, but next week. Whoa.

Because I wasn't sure if the practice squad thing meant, like, he's just going through and, like, working out the defense. Like, no, no, this dude's probably gonna play.

No, no, you're. You're only signing this guy to play and not be a. He's not coming back to be a backup. He's not coming back. Yeah, he's coming back.

So Shane, here, here's the thing. That's so interesting. Just as like an aside, you know, when MJ retired the first time, okay, one of the things he said, like in, you know, like some deep cut interview was like, I just wish the NBA season was like 20 games instead of 82 games and I could just come back for a few regular season games and play in the playoffs. And like, of course, in 95, you did some version of that, Right? The thing that's so interesting Philip Rivers is going to be able to do is like, it's actually like the ideal situation for, you know, an old guy, which is like, I just play in a couple of games and then I get to play in the playoffs. You know what I'm saying? I don't have to deal with, like the beating of the 18 game season. And honestly, this is what's funny, Alex. I knew you weren't going to, like, do this, but I would tell you that if you were ever to come back, getting to come back for like a winning team, right? Just a couple of games and then the playoffs, that's pretty sweet. You know, like, that is an amazing setup for, you know, someone who's an advanced age as a quarterback.

Yeah.

Shane, it's funny you say the whole super bowl thing and I never thought of it that way, but when I was discussing this with my oldest son last night, he was like, he's not nearly the Philip Rivers fan that I am. And he was like, perplexed that he thinks this is like, not a. This is terrible. And that there are, you know, 10 other quarterbacks that the Colts should have went and called or signed. And he starts naming these guys that have Super Bowls. He's like, why wouldn't they call Drew Brees or like, Ben Roethlisberger be better? Or like, why not, you know, Tom Brady? And I'm like, I'm like, these guys aren't gonna play. You're not like, understanding, like, they have to, like, want to come play. They have to like, pick up the phone and be like, yeah. And Philip to this, to his defense, like, this is also in this scenario. I for a fact, this documented. The Colts tried to get him in the 2021 season. A year after he retired, they called him. Carson Wentz had something happen to him. And so they called him about coming out of retirement. Then he passed on it. It didn't work out. In 2023, the Niners called him to come out of retirement. Do you remember when they entered the NFC Championship game with the the Eagles and they ran out of quarterbacks? You guys, you Remember when, you know, Christian McCaffrey was playing quarterback leading into that week, the Niners called him Philip Rivers to come out of retirement. Because, like, that's, I just want to say that, like, that's how well thought of this guy is in NFL circles. Like, this guy is an absolute baller. But yes, Shane, he does not have a Super bowl. And I, Yeah, you know, obviously that's.

Gotta be, that's got to be the.

Only reason the Colts are, they're, they were a contender before Daniel Jones went down. They had, they were leading their division. Now they're in a dog fight just to make the playoffs now. Right. So he's, he's not coming back to play for, you know, the, you know, the, the Cleveland Browns. All due respect to our Cleveland listeners, he's not coming back to lace them up to play in December on Lake Erie. No, no.

Yes, Totally.

I can play for them for three games.

Browns.

Yeah, you got to play for the Browns. It's got to be three games. You know, you're gonna get smacked anyway. Sorry. Keep going, Shane.

You know, look, that's, that's the only, you know, logical reason why he came back, right? So, you know, coming back, obviously, we've talked about, you know, your, your comeback, Alex, and, you know, the, the thing that drove you the most was your, your, your, your need to, to compete and the need for teammates, but it was also your need to win, right? You know, because at that point, you had not won a Super bowl either. So, like, that is, is that strong enough? Is, is the, is the, the allure of winning enough to, to get someone out of retirement after, let's say, past our, our sell by date.

You're totally right. In one capacity, right? Listen, like, he was not going to come back and play on a stinker, right? Like, he, the only reason, I think is he looked at this and like, is this even possible? I'm sure in his head he's going through these questions, right? He's, he, this guy's been in the game so long. Philip, for everybody out there, is, like, so incredibly smart. I, I, I've been fortunate. Like, listen, when I got drafted, the Niners, we play. When. The Niners every preseason. You play the Chargers every single preseason. So I would see them once a year. Obviously, he was drafted the year ahead of me. Then I get traded to Kansas City and I would play him twice a year, right? Like, they're in the division, so I'd see this guy twice a year. And then I was fortunate enough. I don't Know, I think maybe all three Pro Bowls I went to, I was with him. Right. And so we're both in the AFC at that point.

And so now all three Pro Bowls.

You know, yeah, I'm in. Yeah. Meeting rooms with them and like you're on the field with him and obviously got like an up close exposure to him. I think there's another aspect to this, Shane, and is like, again, this is so historic. I mean this guy's a grandpa.

Yeah, I think so.

44. And that he can come back and like this has never been done like again, five years retired, that I can come out and do this still. Like I can still play one last rodeo kind of thing. And obviously again, the offensive line, the weapons around the Colts, the situation I think is this perfect marriage. Again, he was there, he knows the faces.

I genuinely am very excited we're talking about this because my brain has gotten a bunch of different directions. First thing, Shane, yes or no? Hypothetical for you, okay, imagine you never won in the NBA. Okay. And then five years retired. So not now, but now how many years you've been retired?

11.

Okay, so let's say it was five or six years retired. You've never won. LeBron calls you. Okay, so you've still played with LeBron, but LeBron calls you 15 games left in the season. He's on a contender and he's like, yo, we need a small forward. We need someone who can spread the floor. Badier, need you. First question is like, would you have ever considered that comeback if you hadn't won? And like contender LeBron calls.

The only person whose call I would take would be LeBron's.

Okay?

I wouldn't take anybody else. It could be, you name it.

All star.

No, sorry. If LeBron calls, I would consider it.

Okay, now what about 11 years after the retirement? LeBron calls this year, you've already won and he's like, need you.

I know my capabilities in, you know, I play three on three with my high school team and those kids smoke me. So like at some point, at some point it's going to ruin the legacy. Okay, at some point I got you. I don't want people.

And you've already won.

You know, people to think of me as, man, you were sad, you were sad chasing something. You know, when I remember you and your peak, you know, you were tough, you were disciplined, you were, you know, everything, you know, we wanted a basketball player. Now you're just a sad old man trying to.

Yeah, I got trying to reclaim glory. The other two directions, which I Feel very good about. Okay. Just in terms of the take, Alex, I think your grandpa take is actually pretty important to this, and I'll tell you why. My parents were very strict when I was growing up, okay? They were like, my dad always like, no, we weren't. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Like, they were.

You.

You.

You guys have met my dad. Like, they were strict, and with my. With my, you know, my kids, they're just mush, right? They're just, like, total mush. And what's so interesting is, of course, it's the lack of, like, deep responsibility, but it's also, like, they're so grateful to, like, have kids around, and it's like, they get to do it again with the gratitude. They get to, like, have the kids around again and kind of do it the way they wanted to do it almost of, like, they're just so joyous and they're so grateful they get to do it. I think some of this for Philip Rivers is probably like, dude, like, he knows how fleeting this is. He knows how, like. You know what I'm saying? Like, and it's like, dude, I mean, having the grandkid probably makes him more reflective of, like, man, how unique of an opportunity is this?

No, by the way, like, this is. I agree. Like, this is like, the phone's not going to keep ringing. Yeah, right. Again, these teams have called him about this. And again, you're 44. Like, it probably is not going to happen again, this scenario, obviously, with Daniel Jones tearing his Achilles and again, obviously, all the connections to Indy. This guy's oldest son, he coaches in high school football, and he's a baller. He's one of, like, the top recruits in the country at quarterback. And by the way he throws it, just like his dad. Like, it's like identical. He's like a spinning image.

NFL is different five years today than it was, you know, five years ago. Defenses are different, right? The. The blitz schemes are different. Right. And I know it's football, but, like, they're way more exotic because they're smarter, they have more information. So will he be able to process and pick up, you know? Yeah, he's got amazing experience, but, like, he's seen. He's going to see blitzes and coverages he's never seen before.

Alex, let's talk about that, about the processing speed. Maybe that's the gift.

So a couple things. Yeah, like, I just. For everybody out there, like, Phillips entire career, like, I honestly believe this. Like, I'm not sure what Phillips, Rivers 40. Time was. I don't think he ever ran a 40.

It.

It wasn't good for everybody out there. This guy's never been swift of foot. Like, he's never been a scrambler. This guy's been a pocket passer his entire life. And I also told you, this guy, like, he's got a. Obviously hall of Famer. He's got a good arm. This guy didn't have a cannon, though. He always had to play with anticipation. He always had to process incredibly fast. And I don't think he ever gets enough credit for all the stuff he did at the line. Like, he played in. Obviously, he was a peer of Peyton Manning who got all this, you know, kind of the field, general calling plays. Philip was the exact same way. Philip at the line of scrimmage. This guy is, like, insanely smart, constantly doing checks with me, right? And this is the offense that they're going to be running like the. Shane Steichen still runs this offense, right? And he is going to be out there doing this. The terminology is. I'm going. Is very familiar. I'm sure, like, he will pick up this offense very fast to the defenses that he's going against. Shane, I. I actually don't think anything schematically will be things he hasn't seen. I think the harder part will be the personnel. Right. Like, you just build this database of personnel, right. Like, I know safety is what they. You know, like, you. You build this, like, literally giant notebook of, like, corners, linebackers, right. Defensive coordinators and their style. That part is different. Right.

Like, you got to call it training data now to be like, AI native. You don't want to call it.

There you go. Okay. Well, he's built this.

Yeah.

And he knows. And again, not just, not just the players he's going against, right. These corners and their strengths. Like, he hasn't. These defensive coordinators as well. There will be guys that he's going against. They're like, I've never played against this D coordinator. That probably never happened for Philip his last 10 years in the league, right? Like, he. He knew everybody in the league and again, was. Was like almost a step ahead, so to speak. But, like, I. I think that's a. I think that's a small thing for him.

You think this is going to work, Alex? You think he's going to play well, this is.

I think this is insanely ballsy. I think this is, like, there's so much courage, not only by the Colts to make this phone call, but by Philip to, like, Answer it. And, and actually have the guts to do this. Like, I think this again is unprecedented. Conventional wisdom is like, hell no. Again, there's the list on the street, like of guy quarterbacks that are younger, that are waiting, right, like the Tommy DeVito's, the Taylor Heinecke's, these guys that have been in the NFL more recently and that you would call again, we're past the trade deadline so you can't trade for anybody. And it's like, well, here's no, here's Philip, right? Here's this hall of Famer, 44. And again we talked about this is his skill set. I actually think Mary's perfectly for list. The Colts have a good offensive line, they have a great running game. And Jonathan Taylor, who also played by the way with Philip for a year.

Right, Listen, I, I don't worry about the Jacksonville Jaguars defense like that. That doesn't scare me for him. The Niners defense this year does not scare me for him. But he plays those boys from Houston last game. I don't want, I don't want to sound like Stephen A. Smith, but I worry for brother Rivers against that defense.

All right?

There's some grown ass men on that defense. So we're not, we're not playing, we're not playing patsy here. Okay? So we're, we're going to see. This is going to be the ultimate litmus test. Don't judge him on the Jaguars, don't judge him on the 49ers. If he does it against the Houston Rock, the Houston Texans, I will come out and save me a culpa. But I, I worry, I worry for him and his grandson, granddaughter, whatever he had for that game.

One thing, one thing, I was thinking about Alex on this. So one, like, I do agree, I think it takes, it does. You know, sometimes you see people come back and it feels almost sad. It's like, what are you chasing? I feel totally different about the Philip Rivers thing. I agree with you. I feel like I have a lot of respect for saying yes. You know what I'm saying? It like doesn't seem like he was chasing this. It seems like he sort of accepted the challenge as opposed to like he's just like dying for the call. Like I don't know this guy at all, but like, you know, Isaiah Thomas, the, not the Detroit Isaiah Thomas, but the like Celtics Isaiah Thomas, he seems like he's kind of chasing the ability to come back to the NBA and so you feel a little bad when you hear him talk about it. Philip Rivers kind Of feels like he was just sitting by, you know, doing his own thing. The thing I was thinking about is also like familiarity and the value of familiarity.

Okay?

Like, dude, part of the reason they called him is what you said. Like they know him, you know, and what's really interesting about this is like you wouldn't think familiarity mattered in professional sports. It's like the ultimate meritocracy, you know what I'm saying? Of like, either you're above the standard or you're not. Either you're good or you're not. Who cares if like somebody knows you? But the fact that like relationships kind of matter even in the fricking NFL. Trust matters. Even in the NFL. That's actually kind of interesting to me. Just like if you zoom out, it's crazy to me that like an NFL quarterback position could be partly filled because they know you, they know, they know the way you are.

Chris Ballard is not going to get like, you know, maybe not lose his job, but you know, he gets a free pass for getting a known commodity versus pulling someone off the street who's a wild card, you know, and fails, miserable. You ruined up a championship team. So like, oh man, like he tried Philip Rivers, we know what he was. Hall of fame quarterback, you know, a good try, good try. So like it's, it's, it could be a little defensive as well. Yeah, I don't think.

You don't buy my familiarity point. No.

So a couple of things and again, I just like to continue to like help paint the picture. The Colts are 8 and 5. They started 7 and 1, right? Like they were like the, maybe the best team in football. And all of a sudden they might not make the playoffs. And Shane is right. They have the, I think the hardest remaining schedule in the afc, right? They play the Seahawks, the Niners, the Jags and the Texans, right? Like they have to win a couple games somehow. And their only quarterback on the roster is a 6th round rookie in Riley Leonard. Okay, again, shout out to shout out.

Dude, new guy. Actually, you know, funny enough, prior to this, Daniel Jones, Duke guy. Riley Leonard, do guy, you know, Philip Rivers, not a Duke guy.

Champs.

That's right, shout out. You know, and this is kind of.

What I, I find interesting about this and I think, did you see?

He just ignored it all together. He doesn't even acknowledge.

I gave.

Dude, before you got on, I was giving Shane all kinds of love on Duke.

Oh, you were?

Like, when's the last time that duke won the ACC in football?

Spurrier.

Yeah, I mean like mid-80s, you know, amazing. Like when Philip river, he was like 15. Anyway, go ahead.

Just completely up all of the College Football Playoff. But it's okay. Anyway, I think the familiarity is part of this. But I think people have to understand and this is what I. Philip is not normal. This is not just like, this is not a nepotism thing that he just like knows them and they're calling him this man. I honestly think if anybody can pull this off, it is this guy. And it is because of the competitor in them. This guy is one of the most insane competitors I've ever seen. Right. And again, firsthand. So I. Even from my own standpoint, North Turner coached me my second year in the NFL. He left to become the head coach for the Chargers and he coached them for like, I don't know, seven years. So again, I would always hear these stories. I was, I'm still close with Norman, so I would hear these stories of Philip. This guy is nuts. He is like just so pure. And then having a chance to get to play with him again in the Pro Bowl. He's also like weird. Shane does not warm up. I've never met a quarterback that like doesn't warm up right. Like, especially as you get older, you have to like get your arm 44.

I, I think he's warm up.

I promise you he'd have this saying. He would say to be like, you ever seen a wild dog stretch? I'm not stretching.

I gotta, I gotta, I gotta warm up till like get out of bed. I mean, you know, like.

Yes, I'm telling you, this guy though, you warm up.

But this is, this is not. Rudy. No one is questioning Philip Rivers heart. No one is questioning his, his brain.

No one's questioning different.

Father Time is un.

Defeated.

It's undefeated.

And he's also just a gigantic human being. This man is so big standing in there.

Shane, how about this? If Rivers goes two and two, let's make a bet, right? And the line is two over, under. You know what I'm saying?

One and a half.

Yep, one and a half. You're taking the under on wins with Rivers.

Yeah, well, they also have a really tough schedule, so that's. Yeah, yeah.

Alex, you're going to take the over because I think we could set some stakes on this bet. And you know, I feel like I win either way, you know, because I'm getting paid, I'm getting paid for, for my dinner either way.

I mean, I would, I, I'll absolutely see this action. Yes. I'm like intrigued. I cannot wait to watch this.

Okay, great.

So if for the record, I'm cheering for him. I'm not anti Philip Rivers. I just want everyone like I just don't want Guy to get hurt and I don't want this. You know, let's look at. I worry about him. I worry about him. This is more out of concern, not, not excitement concern.

This is the sentiment my oldest son was like last night it was like same thing. Like this is going to be a disaster basically is what he was saying to me. Like, this is, this is going to be the worst thing ever. How would they even think about doing this? And I just have, I do think this has a chance. And again, I think it is, again it's brave, it's out of the box. But I, I, I do think this has a chance. And having played, having retired the same year, this is the question mark. Shane. I have, I cannot imagine getting drilled by like Will Anderson Jr. Right. No, this is a part, there's things I think I could go out, I think I could still throw seven on seven today. I think I could still go do some things. But like I told you guys, limberness is not something that ages well. And getting, you know, crushed by like a 350 pound D tackle is not something that I, I think would go well at this point.

We all think this is courageous for Rivers rather than sad. What are the attributes that make a comeback? Courageous or good. Right. In our minds versus sad? Because there are some comebacks you see where you're like dude, just let it go. And it's not just in sports. Like I'll give you, I'll give you an example in business for a second. Okay, so Bob Iger, who I think is an amazing CEO. I don't know Bob Iger at all, but genuinely amazing CEO. I think that when he, there was a, he had said he was going to step down like six times, you know, and he extended it each time. And finally the last time he passed it down, this guy Bob Chapek also who I don't know. And this was during COVID and then kind of a year and a half, two years later came back. Now different people have different opinions on that. I would imagine Bob Chapek thinks that Bob Iger never really let go and like kind of undermined him or whatever. And I would bet Bob Iger is sort of like, dude, this company that I helped build all of a sudden wasn't going well. And it's Disney, it's important. I need to help save it. Right? But I don't think it's universally seen as positive that he like came back for that. And like, what do you think the differences with that and like the Philip river situation, which we all take as like, man, like, that's positive. Is it like kind of yearning for it? Is it having let go?

I think the scenario is important. Like the situation, right. Like, Philip wasn't calling the Colts, right. This crazy thing happened. They needed him. They're in a dire situation and they brought him back. Like I. And again, like to even think about. And there's been, you know, like, obviously even like Steve Jobs. Right. Leaves the company not on his own. Right decision. But then they, they need him back. Right. The company's not performing well and they bring him back. This isn't something that he's doing for his ego. It's not self promoting at all.

The, the, the company Iger came back to, was it a winner or was it a loser? At the time he came back.

It was definitely losing. It was losing.

So that, I think that is the rub here, right? If you make a comeback into a winning situation, you looked at as courageous, and if you come back to a losing situation, you were looked at as desperate. Okay. We, we all love Rocky, you know, when he fights Ivan Drago because you know he's got a chance to become a champion again.

Right.

If Rocky came back and fought some bum, you would say, oh man, this guy, he's a bum. Right?

Yeah.

So I think, you know what I'm saying. So if the point is, if Philip Rivers went to the Cleveland Browns, okay. We would all say that's sad.

Yeah.

But he's going to a contender and I think so.

Got called. He got called.

Yeah, of course.

Of course. Yeah.

I think that's a big deal. I think that it's, it's, it's, it's.

The, it's the context of maybe even the potential of the outcome. Maybe not even the outcome. But if there's, if you're coming back to something that's worth coming back for, that is looked at as courageous versus chasing something.

Yeah, I think that, I think there's that and I totally. And it's also like chasing versus, like serving. Like there's some element of like, man, I'm going to, like, I'm going to help this thing, you know, get done. Right. Have you guys seen the movie Conclave?

Yes.

You haven't seen it, Shane?

No. Okay, well, I'm the worst movie guy in history. I don't watch.

I'm going to continue it Anyway, just because you'll still appreciate the point. Conclave is about the, like, the naming of the next Pope. It's a fiction movie. Okay, But, Alex, you remember the guy who's like, I don't want to be the Pope. I don't want to be the Pope. I don't want to be the Pope. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

And then, you know, the Pope, the papal process is like the white smoke and all the votes and whatever. So this guy keeps on saying he doesn't want to be the Pope. I'm not in the running. I'm not in the running. He keeps on getting named. And finally, one of the other candidates kind of comes up to him, and he's like, bro, listen, will you just not stop the bs, like, you know, you want to be the Pope, too, Because, like, no. No. What do you mean? What do you mean, no, I don't want to be the Pope? And the guy who is, like, the real candidate is like, have you picked a name yet? And the guy is silent on the other end. He obviously had picked a name of, like, if he was the Pope, what would he be called? And the guy who is the real candidate says to them, he's like, look, we all want to be called. We all want to be called. Whether or not we admit it, we all want to be called. And so I do think that the thing that's interesting on the river situation is whether or not he was chasing it at all. It is so appealing to the ego for someone to call you and to be like, we need you. You know what I'm saying? Like, you are the only one. Think about the ego benefit to Rivers or, frankly, to Iger in that moment of, like, there is a situation that only you can fix. And I would argue that, like, no matter who you were, like, even Breeze, even Roethlisberger, I mean, probably not Brady, but I think even guys that have won before, I think they would at least. It's so seductive to be so important that when someone calls and, like, we have a problem that only you can fix, I bet you more people than you think would, like, consider it. You know what I'm saying, Alex? Like, I would bet even you would consider it for five seconds if you got the call, because think about how cool the call is.

Of course. Of course. Like, I think we. To get your ego stroked like that, to still be, like, thought of like that.

Yes, yes.

I mean, we. We've talked about this like, athletes in retirement and, like, you know, the whole, like, dying two deaths, and then to think that you get that lifeline one more time. Like, of course feels good. I do think it's important. He played six years with Shane Steichen, right? He know he played for Chris Ballard. So like when the person calling you up, like, I, like, I'm trying to reframe it for myself and it's like, well, if Matt Nagy called me up and was like, bro, I need you. I'm in this horrible situation. I need you. He also knows these guys. He played with Jonathan Taylor, he played with Quinton Nelson, Michael Pittman Jr. These guys called him Uncle Phil, right? Like Mr. Rivers. Like these guys, all right, they're in this as well. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, I, that's even harder because again, if somebody I didn't know called me and again, it feels good, but it's easy to say no, right? Like when somebody, Shane, like somebody you've been with for six years, like, and you have that kind of relationships and like they're in this situation and you have a chance to help them. Like, I, I think that that has to play into this 100%.

Yeah. I'm not knocking his choice. Good for him. You know, if I had, if I had 10 kids, I'd want to, you know, get a job too, get out of the house.

But the, the other thing that, the, you know, the real thing that would have been kind of interesting for Shane is actually less at the playing. It would have been like if Coach K was still coaching, you know, and was sort of like, hey, I need you on the bench. I. Right, Like, I think that hypothetical is actually an interesting one. It's like, not about, it's like tough for your family. You got to decide if you want to do it. But you know what I'm saying, Shane, like, I think it's. Think about if Coach K called you with some ask, you know, you probably think about it long and hard.

Matt, coaching. No, no.

Is there a downside? Is there like, is there a downside here? Yes.

It could be very, very hurt.

It could be elder abuse. He could get really. This poor grandkid's grandfather could get smoked by some 350 pound dude.

What, what, what did Clubber Lang saying? Rocky, what's the forecast? Pain, right?

What about the Ivan Drago situation? Speaking of Rocky, if he dies, he dies. Like, you know, can you imagine? Like poor. It is scary. There is real physical health downside for our man Philip Rivers, right?

You know, but like, like, no, no one's gonna, no one's gonna knock him, you know, and make fun of him for coming back. At least I wouldn't. I, you know, you know the downside. But there is downside if you're chasing a negative situation. Okay. You know, there's been arguments about, about, like Russell Wilson. Has Russell Wilson damaged his legacy going to New York, you know, a bad New York Giants team, and he was not great, right? So people may think less of him in his career. He won super bowl, for goodness sake, you know, Pro bowl, many, many years. And now people are questioning his legacy because when he ex, you know, wasn't a comeback, but it was an extension, maybe past his. His prime of his career. Right?

How many people do you think actually have legacies? Because, like, I hear you totally, and I think what you're saying is super rational. And I actually agree with you on Philip Rivers. Like, there is nothing he's going to do to damage unless he gets hurt. Like, really hurt. You know what I'm saying?

The way legacies work, all right, you have your. Your prime, okay? And, you know, the world thinks a certain thing of you, especially if you peak as a performer right towards the end. You know, they push you out the door and they say, well, you're not one. You know, you're not what you once were.

All right?

That's human nature. Everyone gets knocked, even Michael Jordan, you know, everyone. You're not the same guy you were. And then with a gift of time, you know, people remember you as your prime being. So you sort of go through this weird thing like, I'm a much better player today than I was 11 years ago. Judging by the comments on Twitter and judging by the comments that people, you know, see me on the street, like, I'm a way better player today than I was 10 years ago when I was that bum who was too slow, couldn't dribble, yada, yada, yada. So, like legacy. I would, I would argue that for any CEO, too. Look, if you, if you had success as a CEO or anything in life, right, when you were no longer useful in that role, all right, people will talk about you and knock you, but given time, people remember your legacy and your peak for what you were at your. At your high point. Do you disagree with that?

I don't disagree. And I think you, the Russell Wilson, I think so interesting comparison to this because Russell fought his way out of Seattle, right? That he thought they were holding him back. And then he gets out of Seattle and has been nowhere near as successful, obviously not even close. And in fact, I do think there has Been tarnish on him, if you want my honest opinion. And a lot of people look at that now and it's like, well, maybe that defense, maybe that legion of boom. Maybe the running the ball and putting him only in these situational, you know, positions really kind of curated, you know, situation, situational football, so to speak, allowed him to, to have this, like, you know, he did have this legacy, but it's very different now, right? Like, you sign this enormous contract that you kind of like, again, you, you really twisted your way out of Seattle to get this. It becomes a disaster in Denver. They ship you off, right? And it's, it's, it was bad last year in Pittsburgh. It hasn't been, you know, obviously it was terrible at the beginning of this year in New York. And obviously time heals all. No one's taken away his super bowl ring. No one's taken away what he did at the beginning of his career. But I do think in some ways it has been tarnished a little bit. Like, if you want me to be honest. And again, some of that has been self promoting, right? Like it was self inflicted. Do you know? And again, that comes back to this. Like Philip wasn't calling up all these teams.

How do you think about legacies vis a vis this conversation?

Well, honestly, I actually think about it slightly differently than I did when I maybe asked the question. So I give you guys credit. So, like, I think maybe my starting point is like, I actually think most of us tend to overthink how much other people think of us, right? Like, literally just like how much time do they spend thinking about, you know, someone? I think in sports there is this difference of, like, people talk more about the Russell Wilson, Russell Wilson in sports after he retires than they do the equivalent of Russell Wilson in business. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, there's only a few people in business that are ever discussed ever after they're done, you know, like, it's just not the same thing in terms of like the names in the zeitgeist. And so I think that sometimes I tell people, I'm like, dude, like, who cares about your legacy? You don't have a legacy. None of us have a legacy. Like, you know, we remember Steve Jobs, we remember, you know, people like that. But like, no one cares about your career anyway. Like, just do what you want, do the thing that you care about because you're worried about a set of people that are never going to talk about you anyway. You know, the list of people that have business legacies is so Short, you know, at least beyond like the most very tight networks of people. And I just think maybe sports is different because you will be discussed for a longer period of time. But like, I don't know, Shane, like, if I, if I think about like, I mean, I've worked for 22 years, right? For whom does my like, impact matter in the long term? Like, who's going to talk about me in like a business context? I don't know nobody other than the people that live in our house in Woodside and even them.

I push back on that. I think the people who came along with you on the Instacart journey and knew your role and created something and feels like super proud about creating this amazing company out of nothing and taking it public and now we're a household name. Like, I would argue that there's some people who came along on your journey with you that you worked with, that you brought along and mentored and grew, would say, you know what? River Gupta was instrumental and a huge part of.

I hope and believe that's right. That is different though than what you guys are saying, which is you're talking about people that didn't play with you, people that just like talk about sports. And I think that I agree with you. There are some people who are people I've worked with directly who care about what I do in the rest of my career and I should think about them when I make decisions or whatever. But you guys are talking about people that you'll never meet and that, you see what I'm saying and what they talk about when they think about this person's career, like Russell Wilson, like, he's like a, I don't know where he is in the NFL hierarchy, but he's like a, he's not a, all time player, you know, and he still has a legacy by like people he'll never meet. All I was saying in business is very few people in business have any sort of like impact beyond the people that they directly work with. And that's just different in terms of how much you should think about your legacy.

Is there any context in the whole venture capital thing? Because there are legacies there. When you think about like Don Valentine or like Mike Moritz or you know, like John Doerr, like these guys, right?

Are, are my point, Alex, is that those legacy.

Could they come back? Could, could they come back and, and jump into the thing today and be like, hey, I started Yahoo, you know, like I started Sun Microsystems. Like, does that, I mean, you know.

I think the answer to your let's just go through a couple of things, two different points. One, like the number of people who have legacies in venture capital is analogous to like all time football or basketball stars, right? Like it is not very many. Like the venture capitalist names who people will remember, there's like five or 10 of them and they, they deserve it. But like there ain't 100 of them, you know what I'm saying? And your boy here is not one of them. Okay, but, but, but like those, those guys, they, they are incredible. Do I think that they could come back now? Honestly, no. And it's a, it's a hard game because of that. Like the, the people who are making decisions today on like who backs their companies, they're just young. They're young and they look at people who are like hyper relevant to them now. And I can tell you this Alex, like dude, like it, it the half life on your like experience and the stories you can tell with like entrepreneurs is pretty short. Like you know, you gotta be telling it about a company they care about for them to care. Like if you're like, yeah, back at Cisco, here's how we used to do it. Like they just do not care. And you, you, you, there has to be some recency. And I actually think in all seriousness, what's funny is Father Time is undefeated in business too. It's just a different clock, you know. But like it is also sad sometimes you'll see people who have hall of Fame careers who like seem to be chasing something. Just like you said, Shane. And I do think you hit it, both of you guys hit it very hard, right? Which like, if you're chasing it versus someone like kind of calling you to put you in the game. Super different. Like these hall of famers, they get called to like be put in the game occasionally and it's sick, you know what I'm saying? Of like, hey, can you help us win this one? Hey, can, can you talk, can you talk to this person about why there are companies like Google and it's like amazing to watch it happen if they're like out calling some like 19 year old to fund their company. It's just sad, right? It's just like such a different vibe. But it's so cool if they're getting called to like, hey, like just help us finish this thing. And so I think that's like a big difference of like are you chasing or are you getting chased?

You know, who are you thinking of? You have, you're giggling like a, a middle school, you know, sixth Grade girl right now. Who. Who in your mind is making you giggle like that picture walking through the doors of Sequoia saying, here I am, boys and girls, here to help.

Okay? I'll give you the opposite person. I'm not gonna. I don't. I'm not gonna, like, make some random enemies of some, like, super rich person who has, like, a bunch of time on their hands.

Terrible idea.

I'll tell you the opposite, okay? Vinod Khosla is, like, in the game, okay? And Vinod just so doesn't care what anybody thinks, right? He is so cool. This dude's like 70 years old or something. He is, like, in it. And he has not left. And he did the seed investment in OpenAI. Okay? Think about, like, Vinod at like, 62, doing the seed investment in a company that's worth $500 billion. And there's two things that Vinod does that are really cool. One, he literally tells his LPs. He says, we are not here to maximize your money. Think about somebody who's like, takes money and investors and we're not here to maximize your money. We are here to maximize our impact on the world. That might correlate with you guys making money, but I'm going to do things that maximize impact on the world whether or not they make you money. Like, that takes, like, old and, like, DGAF. The second thing was when he invested in OpenAI, it was a nonprofit, which I know it's still a nonprofit, but, like, it was like, we have no idea if this is going to do anything commercial. And he's like, cool, no problem. Here's $50 million. He didn't care. He was just like, you guys are doing AI. AI is really important. I want to be a part of it. So that, to me is like the cool version. And my only point would be there are some people who are like Vinod, who are not as cool as Vinod, who are, like, wearing clothes that suggest that they're younger, who are at parties that they shouldn't be at, and who are not as DGAF as Vanode, who actually give a lot of Fs. And I think that they're kind of sad to watch. That would be my. My interpretation. It would be like, you know, I don't know, like, there are some, you know, professional basketball players or football players who like, bemoan the past and complain, and that's them. It's like, just go be rich. Everything's good, you know?

So how do you judge a successful comeback? What makes this successful For Philip Rivers, Is it the fact that he takes the field? Is the fact that he wins two games and I lose my. My wager with Alex Smith, is it he wins the Super Bowl? When is a comeback successful?

In my opinion, there's a few levels to this one. If he just even comes back and fucking takes a snap. First of all, like, we're talking about all this. It's still hypothetical. If he comes back and dresses up and takes a snap, like, step one. Incredible, right? Like, there's a strong chance he practices for a couple days and is like this, and then obviously this episode will be for not. But right. If he actually takes a snap, I think that's step one. And then it's, how does he play? Right? Like, if he goes out and plays halfway decent again, Like, I think this is just incredible, right? Like, and will be a huge. Like, we've talked about this a lot. Like, what goes into playing quarterback at a high level? There's so many unmeasurables, and here is a guy that, again, it does not measure up, right?

Like, that's cool.

44, can't run a lick, can't move, hasn't played in five years. But, like, if he can go out there and still play winning football, like, play at a decent level, obviously their schedule is tough. Like, whether or not he actually gets the W's, I think that would be the last tier. If he gets them in the playoffs, I mean, this is a whole nother notch in the belt. I think of a first ballot hall of Famer, Like, I definitely think it solidifies that. For a guy that doesn't have a Super bowl ring to be called first ballot, like, that's a big deal, right? Like, I think, you know, in. In. In hall of Fame circles, right? Like, there's probably a lot of people saying he's not that. Right. He's a Hall of Famer, but he's not first ballot.

Shane, I got. I have an idea for a definition of what makes a successful comeback or not. Okay, so I'll shout out our friend Patrick o'. Shaughnessy. He told me that something he thinks about a lot is, like, best story wins. Like, right? Like, he thinks about, you know that.

Yeah.

If you come back and you have, like, a good story to tell as a result of it, that to me is, like, pretty indicative that, like, it was successful. So, like, take Alex's comeback, for instance. That was seen as, like, ultra successful, and you feel like it's successful. It's like a story you want to tell, right? And You've earned the telling of. And people want to hear. Like, everybody wants to hear that story. And so, like, if Philip Rivers, you know, goes and takes a few snaps and gets smoked and gets injured, it's not going to be a story that he, like, probably wants to tell.

If they make no doubt, nor would I have.

Right, right. But, like, if he, like, makes the playoffs, like, even if they don't go anywhere in the playoffs, like, that's going to be a story that everybody wants to hear. Like, we would be like, hey, you want to come on, glue guys, tell us about going back? Like, what was it like? You know, and so maybe Shane, it's just like, is it a story? Like, think about the opposite. Remember when Magic Johnson came back as like a power forward for like eight games, you know, so long ago. Like, that ain't a story that Magic seems like he's probably telling, you know, and so I, I think that, yeah, I think it's like, Patrick o', Shaughnessy, did you. Do you have a story to tell?

I actually love that. I love that. Like, is. Is Jordan telling wizard stories? Probably not, right?

I don't think so.

But this would be epic. He would be telling. If they go to the playoffs and he wins a couple games, he will be talking about. He'll get asked about this for the rest of his life.

Yeah. And like, I think the interesting thing is, like. And then the question is, like, what makes a good story? And I think that, like, he's got to be compelling. There has to be like, the hero's journey, whatever it is. But I think it also, usually in a comeback, there has to be a little, like, hope that gets generated from it, you know, because the thing that will be cool if Philip Rivers, like, has a good comeback. And this is what you said, Shane. We were already rooting for it. It is kind of a cool thing for everybody of like, damn, like, you know, still got it, you know, and you can, you can get back into it and you know, you, you can. Your skills don't erode as fast as you think. And man, maybe it wasn't about the 40 time. There's something about the hope that comes along with that. But I think like, Alex, your story for sure is about, like, hope and grit and all that. But yeah, I think you just gotta. Got to have a good story to.

Tell as a result, in some ways it's not indifferent. Right. Like, Rev, if I'd have come back and it was a disaster and I got hurt again or something, like, and it did not go well. It completely would have reframed. Not just how I felt about my career, but anybody and everybody.

Yeah.

And then to come back and not. And actually play. Okay. And win. You know when.

Totally. Dude come back.

Playoffs. Yeah. Like, it just.

It.

It is. It changes everything.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that all of a sudden you're like, in your case in particular, it's like a symbol of like a lot of these amazing things. But yeah, like, God forbid, if it had gone poorly and if you had gotten really hurt, it'd be like a cautionary tale, right? Yeah, like.

Yes, exactly. Yes.

It's like not a good story, you know, and so.

So Philip's got it. Phillip's fighting for all the old, old guys.

He's fighting for us 44 year olds.

Does he automatically win NFL comeback player of the year if he plays?

Not if it's not. If it's what Robbie just said.

Not.

Can we put a. A wager on that? On one of the.

Unlike Calci, you know, I. I shout out Kelsey, I think that. Yeah, I think I can tell you this. I mean, you know, the real winner in this is the NFL because it's so compelling. And like, think about the range of people talking about like, this is something me and Avni and the kids. It's not just me and the kids talk about. Me and Avni talk about this too. Like it is like mainstream stuff of like, there's a grandpa playing in the NFL. Like what?

You know, I'll tell you what does. I actually probably, probably even ages even better. Like a fine wine. Which I do. Hope we get some access to this. Philip Rivers, for everybody out there is a hall of fame shit talker at quarterback. Let me tell you this. There aren't many QBs that talk a lot of and Philip is one of them. And by the way, it's pg. It is the cleanest trash talk. This man does not cuss again. I've been a part of it. I've seen it live. He is unbelievable. If you ever get a chance, we should play some here. On the episode of some of his best trash talk.

90 yard touchdown.

90 yard touchdown. Get out of here.

But don't do that by my ear.

Don't do it by my ear.

I will do it by my do. What's up?

That's what I do. When I saw. I saw you get upon him and I was like, it's dead.

Let me just moon ball it and.

Let him trot under. And I was like, dad, gum is he going to get there. It's one of my favorite things about, you know, Philip Rivers. Hearing trash talk without swearing is actually quite jarring, you know, but it's. Yeah.

Dagnam it. I mean, there's the words that come out of this guy.