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I've played in NBA Finals and NCAA Championships. I don't think I got as many text messages than I did last week when I got to play with the greatest person ever to pick up a golf club. People like, like, wtf? Like, how did.

You.

I play in this tournament and I called, have pros. I'm having trouble finding a partner, so if any partners sort of pop up last minute, I'm ready to play. And so I got a phone call four days before and pro said to me, hey, man, you still want to play this tournament? And I kind of had filled my schedule at that point and didn't really feel like, you know, rearranging my schedule. And so I said, ah, I don't know. I don't know. He's like, it's a really fun group. It's a really fun group. And I said, how fun? And he said, you're gonna play with my guy, Seth Wa, former president of the pga, who I've known for a long time. Tremendous guy. Your playing partner is Keegan Bradley, and you're gonna be in the group of Tiger Woods. And I'm just like, Eldrick, like, these are things you don't like, you don't expect to hear ever, like, in the history of, like, phone calls. And I'm like, my schedule just opened up. I'm there. That was like 96 hours out. Okay. And what I would like to talk about today is brushes with greatness. We've all had them. We've all been around. We've all. We're all very successful people in our own rights, but we've come across people, either that we've read about, that we've met that are at the top of the. Top of the top of the food chain in all of our respective industries. And it's the weirdest thing. We're all super blessed to have, like, really, really cool networks and be able to do and meet and talk to and up close and personal, do some amazing, amazing, amazing things. And so my round with Tiger, people are like, how was it? I was nervous. I was nervous. Like, I don't get nervous very much. You get nervous because, look, the way I told people is, like, we're all. We're all golfers, and we all love golf. And I don't know about you guys, but, like, I. I started playing golf because of Tiger, right?

Yeah.

And.

And you ask a question of anyone, like, if you could have your dream foursome, who would it be? And for me, you know, it's always my dad, whenever I got to play around with who played golf growing up, and I thought it was a boring sport. My younger brother, who also played golf, I never really got to have a great round with him. And Tiger woods, like, yeah, Tigers. And all of our. All of our dream foursomes. And so I'm walking down the fairway and the first tee, and I'm like, I'm living heaven. This is. I'm literally living in. In heaven. To have this experience with. With, like, a guy who I watched every round growing up on. And the cool part about that round is it was actually way more normal past the first. The first. First hole. First hole, I step up, and I was scared I was going to whiff it, and I hit 300, 310 down the middle. And. And they're like, all right, let's go. Let's go. So, Keegan, Tiger, were amazing, but, you know, it's. It's just so fun for. For all the cool things that we've done in our life to. To. To see people who've done it at a higher level than we have and the appreciation that. That you have, certainly I have for. For Tiger in the game of golf, but, you know, would love to hear your brushes with greatness.

But before we get there.

Yeah, before. Yeah.

Yeah. It feels like we have a few more questions on this round.

I just got to say this. I don't know about you I don't know about you, Ravi. Like, I know you got a lot of text. This is what's crazy about. I got text.

Me too.

I got text about you playing in a foursome with Tiger. I'm like, you know, like from multiple people.

Same thing. Like, the association with you got me a ton of text messages with the same wtf. My favorite one was ask him what he smells like. You know, like all sorts of questions that people had about. About the goat. It was amazing.

That's like, you know, he's a mythical creature, especially in the game of golf, right? I mean, that's not what I ever expected to do one day is like, I'm going to have her on with, like, the guy who I. Who made me pick up a club in the first place. And so it's a very. It's surreal. I. I cannot explain, like, enough, like, how surreal.

Did you keep it cool before you totally geeked out? Like, how long did it take before, you know, like, was it like third hole?

When was the first moment you asked the question? You're like, oh, I don't sound that cool right now.

I try to stay. I try to keep the stupid stuff to myself. All right? I. I found myself, you know. You know, I like to talk. I found myself listening a lot more than talking.

All right.

O. Well, then here in review, because this is like, at least my perspective on a. You know, when you meet some of these larger than life, you know, people that we've idolized from afar. Was he a real dude?

Yeah, 100%.

Okay, great.

100%. Look, I started par, birdie, birdie, which I'm a good golfer. That's like really good golfer stuff. It's all of a sudden, you know, you know, you get the captain of the Brighter cup team and the goat kind of nodding like, all right, all right. We're dealing with a player here. All right? You know, and so I had a little bit of swag. You know, there were no. There were no fist bumps. But you. You act like. You got to act like you belong.

Like you've been there.

That is like the first key of.

Of.

Of hanging out with. With a legend. Act like you've been there. Maybe it's out of experience for me. And like, look, I had a nice career, and people like, like, freak out sometimes.

They.

They look at me like, oh, my gosh, like, it's badier. And so it's been like my. My experience. People don't know what to say when they see the person they watch on television in Real life. And so they say the first thing that comes to. To mind. And I've heard the dumbest people say to me that, like, I'm just like, oh, don't. Don't. Don't say that. Don't. Don't say that.

Don't say that.

And, you know, number one thing people say about me is that, you know, especially living in. In North Carolina, like, I hate Duke, but I liked you. It's like, dude, you'd never say that to anybody, right? I would never say. It's such a. So. So people will say the first thing that comes to their mind. And so I did not want to be that guy. So you act like you belong. You act cool. And like, luckily, I rose the occasion at four birdies that day. Really rolling the rock that day. I was stroking off the tee and rolling the rock, and, you know, I had a birdie putt or a par putt after a really, really tough up and down, and I rolled in, and Tiger just like, man, you have such a stable stroke. Your stroke is just so stable. And so Keegan looks at me, he's like, tiger doesn't give any compliments. So I'm just like, oh, oh, Tiger. But of course, you're playing cool. Like, no, no, man.

Like that.

That's. That's what I have. And so, unfortunately for you guys, when I play you guys in the Commissioner Cups in a few weeks, okay, you're not going to be able to intimidate me, all right? I've been to the mountaintop, and I will use this experience against you guys. I was. I was playing golf with Carlos Boozer this weekend, and he was talking trash. And I said, dude, I stood, you know, with the greatest on the tee box. All right? You think I'm. You think I'm scared of you? All right? So. So just prepare for that. But it was. After a while, it felt like I was playing golf with you guys. That's probably the greatest compliment.

That's amazing.

You can really give anybody. It's just like, after a while, you know, we're all people. We're all just having a good time. And. And you're. You're one of the guys out there. Just like our. Our $20 Nassaus, we're playing.

That sounds amazing. And that. That round you put up is. Is really good. 78 in a tour with the goat. We're proud of you. We're really proud of you.

Thank you.

We didn't see it in the ghin.

We didn't see that on your post.

We didn't see you posted. Do you want to do it now? I know it's a little later. Like how'd you think about that?

Well, if you guys ever had more experience in golf, you understand in a best ball tournament there's a lot of time you just pick up your ball because your partner, you know, has a birdie putt or has already scored well, so you can't really help it. So it's, it's an unofficial round in a best ball tournament scenario.

So.

Convenient. Very convenient.

But do you think that it's neither here nor there?

You shot like a 95 or something? You think that might have gotten posted?

Maybe I post them all. They all help.

Yeah, well, clearly you don't post them all. We've. This is a pretty well manicured.

So I, I appreciate you guys checking my integrity, but officially it's a, in a, in a better ball tournament. You're not supposed to, to post those rounds.

Well, the other thing I was going to say, Shane and I agree you've stood toe to toe with the goat, which is something we're very proud of. Have you ever seen the movie Rounders?

I have.

Do you, have you seen it, Alex?

Yes.

Okay, All I'm going to tell you is when Mike McD sat down with, you know, Johnny, you know, and he sat down with the poker table, he played with the best and he beat him. That was right after that is when he lost all the money to Teddy kgb. You know, thought, thought he kind of had it. So we don't know what's going to happen. Maybe you get a little overconfident in the cup.

I didn't beat him though. That's the thing. I saw greatness. I saw greatness.

Okay.

And I understand that, that I'm just a mere mortal in this game.

All right.

All right.

It's. It's great to know that he's a real dude because I, I don't know about your guys's experience. I feel like, especially in the football world, like I've had to meet so many of my childhood heroes, like guys that we've idolized growing up. And I feel like they either fall in one of two buckets, like there's, it's a very black and white thing. Like they are, are real people and can connect and they like in some ways live up to what you've built up in your head, or they're not and it's, it's a giant letdown and they're, you know, kind of, you know, in the sense that like they big time.

You.

Yeah, I don't know. You know, like, I, I just feel like it can be disheartening in some ways.

I think the context of like where we are in our career, it matters. Yep.

Yes.

Right.

You know, and so like me like planning as Kobe as a rookie versus me playing as Kobe in my last year, like, very, very different. Right. And so give us the context of like where you are in your journey. You know, how you come across these people, how you think about them and like what goes on. You're like, oh my God.

And be specific. You don't have to give us one of the bad ones, but give us one of the good ones where, you know, meet at the hero and they're, they're great.

Oh. I mean, I think first off, I was just generally speaking, but I do. You're totally right, Shane. So many of these initial encounters do go back to like when I was, I first came into the NFL. Right. Like all of a sudden you're thrust into this world and you're going to these events and parties and galas and fundraisers where all of a sudden you're rubbing elbows with all these gold jacket, you know, first ballot hall of Famers. So many, you know, again, for me, obviously playing quarterback, getting the chance to meet a bunch of these hall of Fame quarterbacks is, was unreal. I mean, I've talked about, obviously I got drafted here and you know, you meet Joe Montana and Steve Yarn right away and you know, Troy Aikman's calling your game and is in the production meeting, you know, asking you questions. Is he is you're getting ready. It's. These are like out of body, out of body experiences. And those guys were all phenomenal, by the way, just for our listeners. Like, those three guys are three of my favorites. But I, I will, you know, there's, there's other ones that, that, that, you know, definitely let you down and leave you wanting, which is obviously life. Like, it's not a surprise, but when you're young and naive, it hurt. It hurts a little bit. I think the one for me, I don't know, this brushes of greatness. Like I, I was struggling with this and because I do again what you're saying, Shane, like, it changes now at this, this point. I mean, I, I've been in the NFL world for, you know, 20 plus years. These are regular encounters now. It's. A lot of it has lost their luster. But a lot of these relationships also have been enhanced as well and, and gotten so much Better because you know, again, you, you go deeper. The one that like, that really sticks out to me is my, my very first career start in the NFL. That was week four or five, my rookie year. And we are playing the Indianapolis Colts and the starting quarterback for the. And it's at, it's a home game, it's at Candlestick. The starting quarterback for the Indianapolis Colts is the one and only Peyton Manning. Right? And Peyton, drafted in 1998. You know, like he's, he's eight years older than me, so like I grew up watching him. I, I so distinctly remember that draft with him and Ryan Leaf. I watched Peyton in college at the University of Tennessee. Like just idolize this guy's career, right? Number one pick, you know, just baptism by fire is rookie year, comes out the other side. I mean, he's winning MVPs, he's just setting records. And he also epitomized too, I think something that I, I so respected is not only was he like throwing it all over the yard, but this guy, I mean, all the checks at the line of scrimmage and getting to the right play and like you just couldn't beat him, right? Like, this guy just always had an answer and everything. Like, this is, this is who you wanted to be. Like, this is what it looks like. And again, I've told you guys, like, as a rookie, I'm just spinning. I have no idea what I'm doing. And here is my very first career start against. By the way, had you ever, had.

You ever met him before? This is the first time I had.

A phone call with him. We actually share the agent, which is even weirder. We have the same agent, Tom Condon. So he called me one time that summer.

And by the way, you have his number at that point or does it just show up?

No, he called me. Yeah. No, no.

So you don't know who it is. And you pick up and it's like, hey, it's Peyton.

Yes. Yeah. And I think I got the heads up from my agent, like he's going to give you a call. He was just a really nice guy. He was just, you know, again, hey, if there's anything I can do. And you know, again, I remember I was in my parents living room. Like I could distinctly, you know, you like remember where you are when these things happen.

That's awesome.

And I was like so taken aback by this. Right. And in shock. So fast forward to my first start. By the way, they're the number one offense in the NFL because Peyton is rolling. I mean, it's like again, they're just a machine. They're also one of the best defenses in the NFL. Like, I mean like Dwight Freeney is.

This is. Oh, five Alex.

Yeah. I mean Dwight Freeney is like the sackmaster at this point. Bob Sanders is like the next year is like the defensive player of the year. Like they were just so good. And again, it's like my first start, like this is. It was absurd in so many ways. And in awe. Like I remember being in like pregame warmups and like I think I spent more time staring at Peyton watching him than like I did even warming up, you know, like. And like, ah, it just, it was a lot, right? The whole week was a lot knowing that, knowing that fact. And I'll get off subject real quick. Like, I distinctly remember this is just a funny story about my rookie year. Just kind of tell you where I was at. We were like putting in the game plan and I've told you guys how we put in the game plans. Like it's very segmented, like compartmentalized. So I remember we're putting in third downs and then even third downs are like subcategorized, right? Third and you have short yardage, you have third and like 2 to 4, 5 to 7, 7 to 10. And then you have 10 plus. And this is. They're running, they're famous for the Tampa 2, Tony Dungy, the Tampa 2 defense, it like revolutionized the NFL for a long, long time. And in third and long, they were this overwhelming. You know, they played cover two. That that's what they did in third and long. So we put in this play that was really specifically designed for cover two. It was everybody running slants. It was a two by two formation in all slants. And it's a great play. Versus cover two. It really sucks. Versus cover three. Mike McCarthy is my coordinator and I'm like, what if they don't run cover two though? And he's like, don't worry about it. They're going to. Trust me. They're going to. I'm not going to call it versus cover three. And I'm like, okay, I'm just this young quarterback, you know, like young guy. I'm like, okay, I believe you. And like, sure as I'll never forget, we get out there in the first, third and long, you know, they're showing cover two and they roll down into cover three and, and, and I'll. Mike, just saying, just throw it. Just trust me, just throw it. And I like a dumbass drop back and I throw this slant to the outside and I hit this linebacker like, right in the chest. Like, like every person in the stands must have been like, what the fuck are you thinking? You know? And he takes it to the house, by the way. So he dropped back. I got him in the chest. House call the game. I mean, it is, I think to this day the worst for first career start of all time. Okay. Honestly, from a statistical standpoint, I have it written down for you guys. I went nine of 23 for 74 yards. I had zero touchdowns. I threw four interceptions. Oh, and I got, I got sacked five times. Oh, a QB rating of eight and a half.

Oh, I mean, at least you scored a little bit.

Just, I mean, like, I did, I did. I scored for the other team.

Talk about the handshake after. No.

Yeah. So this is the story. Like, this is where it, like, comes around. It's like, still you want to talk about somebody that's like, lived up to it. I, I posed this question for you, Shane, about people that, is he real? Is he living up to it? So I, here's the post. Shake the post game handshake. It's my first post game handshake of my NFL career, Right? Like, we've all seen these. The cameras are on the two QBs as they've, like, battled it out. Well, meanwhile, I just got my head kicked in, right? And coming over to, to, you know, again, shake one of my idol's hands. I, I, I couldn't be in a worse place from.

Are you got the helmet on or helmet off right now?

I think I took it off.

Yeah. Okay. All right.

I don't know. I'm like, trying to have the visual again.

Trying to get the visual.

I'm pretty sure I took this, I took it off and I walk over and again, there's cameras everywhere. Here's the two, you know, two former number one overall picks. And first, it's in Candlestick. So every, you know, all the, all the local reporters are around and I'll never forget Peyton. Like, it's hard to have a real conversation in that moment. And he did. And he, and I remember him distinctly thinking, like, he came up to me and he said, hey, you want to feel good about yourself, go watch my first start.

Oh, that's cool.

I never, I never knew, right? Like, and at that point, I didn't know how much he had struggled his rookie year. Now, mind you, his first start wasn't as bad as mine. I've checked, I've checked. It was pretty, it was pretty solid compared to mine. But, like, in the moment, it was just such, like, a small little gesture of kindness that he, like, didn't have to do. And I think he very much had empathy with where I was at, you know, and so I'll never forget it. Never forget it. And, you know, I've obviously played with. I played against them a bunch over the years. I get traded to the same division as him when I go to the Chiefs, and he's with the Broncos, so I'm playing him twice a year. And, you know, just so many encounters again over the years, and he is definitely one of the special ones. I still idolize him in a lot of ways. Just the way he carries himself, you know, how funny he is. He's the greatest commercials, you know, maybe.

Ever cut that meat.

But he's always real. And that's why I do ask that up, like, every time I see him, given his celebrity and greatness, you know, maybe the greatest quarterback of all time. He's certainly in the conversation, obviously, with, you know, other greats, but it just. He's. He's always real, and. And I so appreciate that, and I'll never forget that gesture. And, like, maybe one of my worst moments professionally. Certainly an act of. Of kindness and just the connection post game.

That's awesome.

And we were talking before the show, you know, Ravi, you wanted more clarity on sort of brushes with greatness. And I go back to your early KKR days when you're crying at your desk, okay, now you can pick up the phone and call George Roberts. You know, you share a golf instructor, right? So, like, you've come a long way, baby, as they say. And so at one point, you had to develop this relationship with an absolute titan. And, you know, in your industry, you. There's. I think there's more titans of business that you've come across than titans of basketball or football that Alex and I have have come across. So I want to hear your story about the first time you're like, oh, my gosh, like, how and why.

When I joined KKR in 2005, there was, like, I don't know, a couple hundred people that work there today. There's, like. I think there's like, 3,500 people or 4,000 people. It's like, totally. It's a lot bigger, you know, but the reason I mentioned that, it was, like, it was small, but it still wasn't. Like, they were still larger than life even in 2005, like Henry and George, you know, the firm started in 1976. It was, you know, almost 30 years old. And so I'm just trying to get a sense, like, they're probably at that time in their. Just about 60, you know. And so they're already, I mean, legends, capital L legends.

And, you know, barbarians at the gates already been.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Barbarians of gate is about this deal. It's a good question, like, barbarians and gates about a deal that happened in 1987. So, I mean, I was six years old in 1987. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, these stories you hear, I mean, I've read all the books, you know, I walk in, I have like this shitty suit on because I have no money, you know, and these guys are dressed, you know, oh, whatever. So I was thinking, I was like, okay, well, I don't even know what I'm going to see these guys. And I don't know in what context. So I remember the first meeting I was in where Henry was in it. It was like my third day, you know, and someone made some comment of like, we're going to throw him right into the fire, you know Henry, like, yeah, I never met him. Nothing. He's like. He looks at me and he's like, ah, don't worry, he's gonna be able to handle it. Which was just, like, a really nice thing to say. Like, you know, you don't know me at all, right? But like, someone effectively just, like, trying to show Henry that we're going to work the young guys to the bone. And it was just like, a cool thing to see. I still remember he was wearing this pink shirt and just. I couldn't believe. I was like, holy shit. This guy, like, looked at me, you know. So anyway, so the next time I see him, you guys will laugh. It was in the elevator. Like, literally in the elevator. Okay. And the first night I had. So maybe I should get out. Like, I don't know if Henry, like, wants his own elevator. Like, you know, like, you know, whatever. And so at the time, I was working at a company that was in New Jersey, okay? Like, I was going back and forth, this company that's in New Jersey. And again, like, I don't know why I was doing this, but. So I was wearing my jacket and I had a. This is funny. I bought this, like, overcoat, but I thought it was a heavy overcoat, but it ended up being a really thin one. So it was like, not a winter. I bought it to be a winter jacket, but it ended up not being a very warm jacket. So I was wearing it in, like, the Spring. Anyway, Henry sees me in the elevator, and I'm like. I wonder what he's going to say. You know, maybe nothing. And he looks at me, and you can tell, like, he kind of recognizes it. He sees I'm going the same floor.

Okay.

And he says, a little warm for that top coat, don't you think? Okay, I am like. Like, now what do I say? And I. I say, well, I've been spending a lot of time in New Jersey these days, hoping to, like, really prove to him that I'm working really hard. And he kind of looks at me. He's like, the weather's the same. There is.

It's not far away.

And at that point, I'm like, you know. So anyway, I don't say anything. Door opens, we get out, and, like, I'm just, you know, you can imagine. I, like, you know, go home. Like, oh, my God. You know, Henry Kravis thinks I'm an idiot. So it didn't start necessarily as, you know, as some of your guys did. I kind of had the moment of, like, you say the stupid thing, you know, whatever. Over time, what happened with him and George. And I've kind of referenced this at different points, but, like, maybe in more detail. They were incredible about making time, if you had any initiative whatsoever. Like, and they. I mean, I want to make this real. Like, I was an, you know, an associate. So, I mean, above me, there's associates, principals, directors, partners, and then there's Henry and George. I mean, like, think about how many levels there are between you and them. And I also worked in a group that you guys know. And Capstone, they didn't spend that much time with him at the time. So, I mean, like, I was like the filth below the ocean floor, you know? And so anyway, the reason I say this was if I ever had an idea, they just made time. And so I didn't see him a ton, but they. At one point, I. I think that I was in some lunch that he was in, and I said something. I kind of said something he thought was decent. And I talked to him afterwards. And then I was like, you know, I'd love to come see you at some point to talk more. And he was like, oh, yeah, email Donna, but we'll do it. And I was so stupid. I was like, okay, cool. I guess I'll email Donna. And I remember some guy who worked on our team being like, what are you talking about? Like, you can't. He didn't mean that. Like, don't do that. I'm Like, I don't know, he said it. So I went and emailed Donna and he sat with me and I sat in his little office and he had like a little, he has a huge office, but this little adjacent room. And then, I don't know, every couple, you know, a couple times a year, he would sit with me. And then over time, it just like built. And the reason that I think that's so cool is like, these guys had all the time in the world for someone that had ideas, you know. And that was an amazing lesson for me in every way of just like you be, be approachable if someone has some content. I still remember something I said to him that I'm actually quite proud of that I'll tell you guys. So one of the times I was sitting with him, he said, how do you think we can innovate more at kkr? And I said, well, how many people do you have reporting to you? And again, like, I'm like, I'm very young at this time. I said, how many people do you have reporting to you? And he said, counts. And he's like, you know, 13. I said, when was the last time one of them brought you an idea that failed? You know, that was like, when was the last time one of them brought you an idea that like, was a bad one, you know? And he kind of thinks for a second you can tell, and he's like, well, you know, the last time was this one person. And I was kind of like. I mean, it kind of feels like all 13 of them should be bringing you ideas that don't work, right? If you wanted to innovate, if that's your like, group, like you're not getting their real ideas if they don't do either they don't have them or they're not telling you. And you could tell he was kind of like, huh. Now the guy that he mentioned who gave him the idea that didn't work is one of the co CEOs of KKR now. And this is like 15 years before he got the seat, you know, and so it's crazy, like at that moment, have you. If there was like a betting market, I'd have been like, I bet you Scott Nuttall is like going places, you know. And so that was kind of a cool moment for me. And I think that he could tell I was too stupid to be as polished as I should have been with him. And I think that he, he appreciated that. And then with George, it happened slower, but George has been, I mean, incredible to me.

It Seems weird that at that moment you still recognized. I would have. I would have said of the 13 report direct reports to him, the ones that had a better batting average would have been the ones that you would have bet on as a young guy, right? Like, you would have just said, hey, well, these guys better. Better percentage. But.

That was a hell of an answer, Robbie. I got. I gotta. I. I don't know if any. Anyone could have come up with that. That was. That's a really mature answer.

I appreciate that. Thank you. But I. But the thing about it, I do think this. When I was talking to him, elevator notwithstanding, I mean, I was like, I was like, ready to answer his question, right? I really wanted to. I didn't want to just, like, give him something off the top. Like, he asked, how do we be more innovative? And so that was what came to mind. And he was like, it was cool. He, like, really, you know, appreciated that. And then with George, George was harder because, like, I didn't go to Menlo park that often. I was sitting in New York. And. And so George, I. I became closer to him when I, like, moved to California. And then, same thing. I would try to, like, make time for him and try to get time with him. And he was always cool about making time. But also with him, like, he. I told you guys this. He was very honest with me. And I think that. That at first it really hurt, and then it was. I realized it was just like such an amazing gesture of kindness to be honest about when he agreed or didn't agree or whatever. But one thing I'll tell you guys about George, he used to assign books to people in the office. He would be like, hey, like, I don't. I think at lunch if we talk about deals, that's cool, but we should also talk about, like, what we're learning. And so, like, here, like, everyone should do more reading. Here are some books that I think are, like, worth reading. Now. In retrospect, it's amazing. In the moment, it was like, fuck, I have this, like, crazy job and now I have homework, you know, like.

Were they investing books or, like, finance books?

Oh, no, like every. I mean, their biographies, their. Their books on history. Like, all these guys. One of the things I can tell you for sure is all these people in business who we respect and admire, they are avid readers, and they are not. Is not just one topic. Like, they really go across the board. And it is like a. It is absolutely, in my experience, a staple of these people who are really uniquely good that they. They read A lot. And they read different stuff. But, you know, I talk more about Henry, but George, truly, both of them have been so good to me. And then even, like, Even Scott. Scott was so good to me the whole time I was there.

I don't. I don't think I've heard the George story, like, at first, was he. So it was very direct feedback when you first.

So what happened was the story. Sorry, I didn't tell it. I guess when I told him I was going to leave and go to Instacart, he basically didn't think it was a good business. And it was true. I mean, at the time, it was a. It was not a good business. And I think he was sort of like, if you're gonna leave, like, leave, but, like, don't go. Don't go to a bad business. You know what I'm saying? Like, we have all these good businesses in our portfolio, and it wasn't about serving him. It was just like, this is not. I think he was sort of like, you're not judging this thing properly. And so. Alex, the funny thing was, like, when he said it, you know, of course I was really hurt, and I was, like, offended and, like, all these. I didn't say that to him, but in my mind, I was like. I was sad. You know, someone I really look up to being like, this thing is not that great. And so anyway, though, the thing that. What makes George. George is like, six, nine months later. It was killing me that I. Like, the last time I talked to him, he was sort of, like, annoyed, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was really. I really did not like that. And it's giving me too much credit to say he was annoyed because, like, obviously I. You know, it's not like I was registering in his brain that much. But anyway, six or nine months later, I emailed him being like, can I come see you while I was at Instacart, and he wrote back in, like. And of course, like, every minute after that email, I'm like, you know, on eggshells or on, like, pins and needles, waiting to see if he's going to respond quickly.

Now, is this the period in your life where you wanted to go back to kkr? That's also important context. Important context.

No, I was. I was. This was not that moment, okay? We had gone past that moment, okay? But I definitely, definitely, definitely wanted, like. I wanted him to like me. And you know what I'm saying? I wanted to have a relationship with him. And so when I emailed him and I asked him like, can I come see you? He wrote back in like 20 minutes. He was like, yeah, anytime. And I went back, and he was so cool. He was so cool at that point on, like, answering my questions, because I was like, here's what we're dealing with. I'd love your advice. I genuinely, like, what should we do? And I still remember what he said. He said, how much money do you guys have in the bank? And I said, we have $150 million. He's like, okay. He's like, if you were starting from scratch with $150 million, knowing everything you know now, what would you do? And I said it. And he's like, I think you should do that. Like, you should not have any history that matters to you. The only thing that matters is what have you learned? What are your resources now? What are you going to go do about it? And I remember, like, it was so. I mean, it's so simple when you hear that in retrospect, but it was so right, which is like, go take what you got and play the game as best as you can and don't have any saddle of the past, you know, like, we were in 18 cities. He's kind of like, how many cities do you think you should be in? I was like, I don't know, like, five, seven. You kind of sounds like you should be in five or seven cities, you know? And like, he, He. And he was really nice about it, but it was so helpful to hear that. And then after that, I mean, he's. He's forever. He is responsive, he is kind, he is makes time. He talks and gives amazing advice. In both them, they really have been amazing. Henry. On my work anniversary, I thought that Henry got hacked. On my work anniversary one year, I got a LinkedIn message from Henry saying congratulations. And it had like a gif in it. And I was like, what the hell is going on? You know, but some. He got some notification and decided to, you know, send it to me. And so anyway, did have I told.

You guys who my speed coach was getting ready for the combine?

Who? No. Carl Lewis.

So. So I. I declare to go pro from Salt Lake. I load up my little tiny Suzuki Grand Vitara with all my. And drive it down to San Diego and I get on a plane. I've signed with my agent officially, and he's going to send me to combine prep. And he sends me. I go to Bradenton, Florida, to the IMG Academy. This is the Bullet Terry Academy. This is the one in the Sanford.

Or in the Agassiz in the Agassiz, Yeah.

So it is the Nick Bullet Terry Academy. And at this point, it's just a tennis academy. Like, it's just for, you know, tennis prodigies, but IMG owns it, and that's the agency I'm with. And so there's some apartments, and there's five of us. There's only five NFL prospects going. Everybody's kind of a quasi first round pick. And there's four linemen and me, I'm the only skill position player. And so they have to fly in, though, because you're in Bradenton, they have to fly in all these coaches. So, like, they fly in a QB coach to coach. Me and my speed coach, though, long story short, is a guy named Michael Johnson.

What? Okay.

Michael Johnson, who lives here in the Bay Area gold shoes. Like, we've all watched those Olympics. They're like, at least for ra. Like, you know, like the fastest dude on the planet at that point. And they fly him into Bradenton to train us how to do a 40 start. I've never run a 40 in my life. I've never had my hand in the ground. Like, I don't even know how to get into a three point stance. And all I can get out of my. And he's like showing us, and he's like taking us through ladder drills. And like, I'll never forget, like, his feet move so fast. Like, he's like, just do this. And like, his feet. He would do the ladder drill. And you're like, oh, my God. And like, you're like, I can't do that.

That's awesome.

And he was like, showing us how to do a track start. Like, I remember, like, going down, like, with my hands, like, trying to, like, how to do a track start. And it was again, it was like outer body experience. Like, Michael Lewis, he's teaching you. Sorry. Michael Johnson. Michael Johnson teaching us.

You and the lineman.

Yeah, me and the lineman. Yeah. And it was like a joke. And I ran 140. 140 ever.

Okay.

I lined up at the combine and I'll never. The underwear Olympics. I'm in my stupid, literally, spandex, right? You have a number on. You're just this number, right? Like, I don't even know a number. It's alphabetical. So I was a big number. And I'll never forget the starting line. You're like, right up over against the stands at Indianapolis's stadium. And, you know, there's scouts and all this stuff everywhere, like, people everywhere. And I look over I'm getting in this stance that Michael taught me, right. Like, you know, how to take off on a 40 and like I look over to my right and Al Davis is sitting in the first row and he's like, he's like right there, he's like, I mean he can't be 15ft away from me. And I've never seen Al Davis in my life. And I like look over and he's, you know, he's old at this point and Al Davis is like right at the starting line watching me get in this stupid track stance which has nothing to do with playing quarterback. And I ran the 140 and I ran a good time and it was like, oh, that's it.

I'm done.

Never doing this again. I love it.

Did you guys ever have, you know when you come across these Titans, these legends, do you remember feelings of inadequacy and having imposter syndrome?

Like, totally.

Like, I don't belong here?

Totally. Totally.

Hell yeah.

Yes, of course. Why is this?

When is the last time you had imposter syndrome in front of someone of note that you can remember?

I don't think I get it much anymore about anybody in football.

Yeah.

You know, and when I say that, I think as a little bit of growth, you know, hopefully I still get it though when I meet certainly Titans and celebrities in other fields. Right. Like I, you know, like I had, I had the chance to play golf a few times with like with, with President Obama. That was like, you know. Yeah. You know, like you just, you totally nerding out on, on every stupid question again conversation. But like from a football perspective. No. And again I, I, I mentioned the relationships, right. Like as they evolve, you certainly cherish, you cherish the ones that mean more to you, you know, that, that again have gone deeper the other ones, right. Like you're just less in awe of anymore. Right. Like some of these guys that I've been around before that I just don't, you know, it's not my cup of tea. Like I just, yeah, totally. I don't have the same, I don't have the same feelings anymore. And I was going to ask you this, where I'd be like, obviously you've been. I know there are different sectors going from private equity to operating to now investing, but so many of these, those industries do cross over now, right?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean you play for the Yankees right now and like has it does when you see some of these Titans, you've, you know, like is it, does it has it Changed for you.

Yeah.

Well, look, to be clear, Ravi is. Ravi is a titan now.

Okay.

Yeah, I would consider.

I can promise you, if you go.

To any investing, you know, entrepreneur conference, people are going to cower and say, that's. That's really good.

Right.

So you are. You are now a titan.

Yeah, I can imagine that. People listening right now are like, can we just get back to the sports stories? What are we talking about right now? And so I'll be. I'll be brief. The thing that, you know, Shane, to answer your question, the last time, like, imposter syndrome. For real. I remember. You'll laugh. It was when I first met Michael Lewis on your introduction.

Huh.

Okay. Because, like, I love Michael Lewis. And, like, remember, like, you, like, read this guy's books, and, like, anytime he'd write something, I would go buy it and I would read it, and, like, I reread it. I mean, I love how Michael Lewis writes. And, you know, he's like an author. I mean, he's just like, you know, there's a name on a book. I mean, he's not a. He's not someone I ever thought I'd get to, like, spend time with, you know? And I know that sounds so nerdy, but it's so true. Like, when I sat with him, I couldn't believe we went to, like, some restaurant in Berkeley. And I still remember what was happening. I meet him, he starts talking to me, and, like, 30 minutes in, I haven't asked him anything. This dude just asked me so many questions. And I remember, like, looking at my watch or my phone because I don't wear a watch. Looking at the time, like, fuck. Like, we have an hour scheduled, and I haven't asked him anything in 30 minutes. And I was like, I'm wasting my lunch with Michael Lewis, you know? And I still remember, like, there was, like, a pause in the conversation. I was so happy that I could just, like, finally flip it on him. But that was for sure, a moment like, that I was like, I cannot believe I'm sitting here with this person. And so, yeah, like, it definitely happens. It happens more like you said Alex and, like, other industries, you know. But, like, I mean, you know, I don't know. I. I definitely. I definitely have it. When I meet some of the titans now. I try to put it away quickly so I can, like, play, you know, like, you have to interact. You. So you want to have the respect, but you kind of. You don't want to be in awe where you can't, like, function.

I did A terrible job of that where I, I, you know, as cool as I was for, for Tiger.

I.

Did a really, really bad job when I worked for the Miami Heat under Pat Riley.

Huh?

I was bad. I was a bad. I was a bad vice president of analytics and development.

Not.

Not for the time.

You have my attention now.

Yeah, yeah. I thought we. I was charged when I got hired by the Heat to develop analytics platform. And so we did amazing job. I hired some really smart data engineers and some analysts, and we built an infrastructure that was really, really, really, really, really good. Where I failed was at the time, I knew more about basketball analytics than anybody in the Heat organization. Okay. Obviously, I was hired to, to build the spaceship. And when I initially started producing research and reports and analysis on sort of the state of the NBA, I. I would hand it into Pat. Pat look it over at once and said, ah, no, this is saying it. And I thought to myself, like, man, like, Pat is one of the greatest executives of all time. Like, yeah, I'm. I'm so stupid to think that what I can produce, you know, even though he has no idea what these analytics are, are going to teach him anything. And so I just take my report, go back to my desk and sit down. And I think I did the, I did, you know, the entire organization a huge disservice by never pushing, like, no, Pat, I really think that you should reconsider this because it's, this is how, you know, our competition thinks. And even though we've had amazing success, like, we should consider a new worldview a little bit. You know, I'm not telling you how to run a team, but, like, you got, you got to look at this data. And that is when. That was one of the few times in my life where I let greatness get in my way.

And do you think it was because of, like, being, like, intimidated or what do you think it was? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've only read about Riley, but it would seem like he's crazy intimidating.

Well, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

If Pat Riley, you know, came in the room behind you, Alex, you'd feel him. I mean, he's a dude. I mean, he talked about presence. It's Pat Riley.

Yeah, right.

And he, he's all sinew and, and competition and he's just a dude, especially in basketball. I mean, he's a legend. And it wasn't Tiffany. I was a brand new executive. Okay? I obviously I played the game, but I didn't have any front office experience. And so, you know, I went. I was there with an Open mind to learn. But I didn't have faith in what I knew, and that was a huge mistake. And as a result, like, that's why I wanted to move on, because I felt that I was a failure as an executive.

Dude, there's so much value in having a trusted person that you can talk to when you, like, are dealing with this stuff. Like, you guys gave me a compliment earlier, dude, like, the credit for any of that shit goes to my dad. Because, like, of course I'd call him before I was going to go see one of these guys, hey, dad, what do you think I should do? How should I deal with this? And he would say the same thing, was like, remember, this guy's got people telling the same shit every day. You know, like, you want to stand out, you want to do something, you got to say something. You have to make him think. You have to, you know, and, like, be yourself. Go play. And like, but you need somebody who tells you that. And, like, just like you said, I was just thinking about, you're like, oh, like, it's my first time being an executive. Like, you know, who's the person that tells you this is the way it's going to go? Like, how are you going to deal with that? You know, you need. I think you people really benefit from that. First time you do anything, 100.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, I think you do need it because it's hard. I think it's really hard to, to, you know, whenever that kicks in for you, whatever it is, like that anxiety or that doubt, right? Like, to. It's hard to be yourself.

Yeah, that's the thing that leads to play.

To play free. Shane I had, like, a very similar experience when I. I got to play with Randy Moss. Okay. And again, Randy Moss, like, yeah, you know, it's him and Jerry Rice, the greatest receivers ever, right? Like, that's it. I mean, he's certainly the, probably the greatest big play receiver ever in the history of the NFL. And he had retired and he had come back out of retirement, and I got to play with them, and I still hadn't totally established myself at this point. I'm with the Niners. It's the end of my, My time with the Niners, but I hadn't. I'm still very much trying to fight for my footing. And he comes on and let me tell you, like, when, at this point, I'd had the chance to play with amazing teammates, you know, Larry Allen and Bryant Young and, you know, Frank Gore and, you know, Patrick Willis and these guys but like, it's different when a guy's blocking for you and you're handing the ball off to a guy. Like, the quarterback receiver relationship is so unique. Like, I'm the guy.

Yeah.

Throwing this guy the ball. And I'll never forget, like, just throwing routes on air. You're like, I'd be like, throwing him a hitch. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm throwing the ball to Randy Moss. What is he.

What?

Like, what. What are you going to think of this throw? Like, what if I, like, don't put it in the right spot? Like, what if I, like, you know, like, he's been catching passes from some of the best, you know, and. And I've been lucky enough. Like, there's a list, like, I've thrown. I'm on the list of like, QBs that I have thrown Randy Amos a touchdown pass and I've thrown a couple as I get the tail end of his career. And you guys should see the touchdown passes I throw. They're like, again, because one of them, he is so fucking wide open and I'm so nervous in a game to like, miss him. And I throw this ball, like, so tentatively. Like, again, to your point, Shane, like, not just like, cutting it loose and ripping it. Like, I'm just so, like, oh, like, you know, like guiding this task. And he makes this like, unbelievable catch the ball. He's like so far behind him and he like, you know, guy's got arms that are so long and his hands are freaking. Wears like 3x gloves. Like, he snags this ball for a touchdown. Like he could still play even at his old age. Like, it was, it was so sweet. And you're just like, oh, thank God he caught it. And another one. Like, I'll never forget it. We're playing on. On national TV and I threw him a hitch. Like literally the most basic route in football. And we're like out in the middle of the field and I throw this guy a hitch. And he like, again, this guy had been retired. His knees, like, bothered him in practice. He makes like five guys miss and. And houses it for like a four.

Yeah.

A touchdown. And I'm like, holy shit.

Threw this guy a hitch.

But like, he still. It was so funny. Like, even at that point, like I was playing quarterback, like, I should have been very confident. Like, just he's open throwing the ball, but, like, it's still totally. It had that effect on me, like, where it was like, his magnitude again. I. I idolized him growing up. Like, I watched those Highlights when he's with Minnesota and you know, like, and even in college again at Marshall. And like, it just, it affected me, right. Like I wasn't playing free and I was like, again, holding on. And it's so cool too though. Now I, I get the chance to work with him. Totally.

I was just gonna say the coolest thing.

Like, he's this, this amazing person. He is like one of the most positive people like you could be around. Like, his energy is infectious and I so look forward to constantly seeing him and being around him.

Don't you look at like you've like, grown up, you know, like, yeah, like, it's fun.

Like, I give him, like, I, he'll even talk to me sometimes when he says it and like, you know, reference me as a peer and like, still, like, it still like takes me back a little bit. But it's definitely a relationship again that I cherish and do have, like, worked with him in different, different, you know, arenas.

Yeah.

And just. But it, it definitely had that effect on me early on, you know, throwing again, like just that especially the quarterback receiver. Totally like relationship. There's, you know, machine.

One of the things I was thinking about related to this, and I know you were older when this happened, but like, you know, you. If I just like walk it through, you know, first time playing for Coach K. Okay, crazy, you know, get to the pros, you know, first time playing for a pro coach, I mean, Hubie Brown, people that you knew. Then you go play with LeBron and again you're older, but like ultimate, not just brush with greatness, but like next to him. Did you ever have any of that of like, God, I wonder if, like, you know, if I missed this shot, if he's gonna be pissed that I don't make it. I'm trying to think about that. And then the thing that's in my brain is this 26 game winning streak and your speech, you know, to the team. And the reason I'm thinking about it, you gotta set it up. But like in that team with, you know, LeBron and Wade and all these dudes in the 26 game winning streak, that the speech that they talk about is yours. And so you, you did kind of just like it was yours, it wasn't someone else's. You got tell us about playing with LeBron and then that.

Yeah.

So the only time I was nervous was when I was making the decision to go to Miami. So I was a free agent for the first time. I knew I was going to either go to San Antonio Or Miami, because I wanted to win a championship, and those are the two best teams at the time. And so even though, like, you know, Nick Harrison was calling me, Pat Riley, Eric Spoelstra, hey, Shane, come. Like, I was always like, well, what, What. What do the guys think? LeBron want me? Does D. Wade want me? Like, would that be cool? Like, like, it was. I was so insecure. Like, of course. Do the cool kids want me to sit at their table like that? Yeah, that was my. That was my. That was my entire. So, like, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, someone, like, call me or text me and, like, just tell me that just to. Yeah, it's so funny. I connected with them. Like, oh, no, you'd be great. We'd love to have you. And so, like, that. That's when, like, I was like. I was like, okay, it's cool. But, like, walking to practice the first day, you know, I. I definitely, you know, it was on my best behavior. And you just want guys to like you, especially your teammates. You just want. You want, you know, so, like, I didn't go in guns ablaze and tell me, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. I was, like, very quiet and just wanted people to see, you know, I was about the team. And I. I worked hard, actually. I pulled my quad the first. The first practice. I'm like, like, yeah, now they think I'm soft, you know, Like, I missed the whole training camp and I came back the first game of the year.

But, oh, veteran move right there, just missing.

Yeah. And so I felt so, so, so soft. So lame, you know? But look, I love talking about playing with. With those guys because obviously hall of Fame basketball players, hall of Fame teammates, I love all those guys as brothers for forever, but, like, I thought I earned their respect, right? And so we talk about this a lot, like, earning earned inclusion. That's all. That's all any of us want. You. You want to feel that, you know, what my contribution matters and that the journey we're on is worthy. The. Worthy of all of my effort, all of my heart.

Right?

And so you don't really know, like, when that happens, it sort of clicks one day and you're like, yeah, I'm one of the guys. They. They rely on me and they appreciate what I do. And so I think that, man, I think I finally felt that in 2013. We had just won the NBA championship the year before, and we had a Super bowl party in Toronto, and it was. It was the 12 o' clock early game in Toronto on a Sunday, which is really tough. Really tough game because Toronto is one of the best NBA cities. And let's just say the city has a lot to offer that guys partake in. Okay, so tough game. 12 o'. Clock. Awesome city, Toronto. We win that game. Now, before we had huge football fans on. On the ride, we. We watched more football, like, in the locker room than we did basketball, you know, and people wouldn't believe it, but we all love football, like, so much. And so we didn't have a TV on our plane. So LeBron was going to charter a plane just so, like, the guys could fly back to Miami and watch the Super Bowl. This is a Super Bowl Sunday. And the team was like, no, no, no, no. We're gonna stay in Toronto after the game. We're gonna have a Super bowl party and we'll fly back late because it was an early game. We actually had a back to back against Charlotte Bobcats the next day.

Oh, wow.

So we go and Real sports bar in Toronto. Great, great place. Right next door to the. Next door to the Air Canada Center.

And did we go there for the fantasy drop? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

That place is right.

That's where our party was. And you know, unfortunately, it was a great game.

It was.

It was Ravens, Niners. So Kaepernick, Ray Lewis, you know, Alex.

Yeah, I watched that one.

Yeah. I can't believe I. I've heard this story. I didn't. I. I've never put it together that you were. That's your Super Bowl. Oh, my God. That's crazy.

Neither did I. I apologize. Alex.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. Don't apologize.

Don't.

I mean, it's history.

Well, that's crazy.

You'll like. You'll like this story. So I was rooting for the Niners. Okay. So I was rooting for you. The rest of the guys were rooting for the. Rooting for Ray Lewis and the Ravens and that. You know, I want to hear at some point how you spent the power outage, because what I did, I spent the power outage pounding beer. Pounding beer. So I. I was drinking, like, the Canadian steam anchor beer that's, like, a little stronger than American the entire blackout time. And by the end, I'm feeling really good, like, really, really good. And I was just overcome with, like, emotion and, like, brotherhood. So I get on the. On the. On the bus. It's a long ways to Pearson Airport and awesome game for the Ravens. I'm dejected. I lost a lot of money to my teammates that day at One point I took off, we had mannequins, I took off Cape's jersey. I was running around with a football helmet on and a cape jersey in Toronto. That's how good I was feeling. And I stand up in the bus and was talking to some guys, you know, just, you know how I do and just, you know, talking about, man, like, we have a chance to do something special this year. Like we really do. And like, you know, we have something special. And, you know, I want the world to see it. And all of a sudden, like, I look up and the entire bus is like looking at me. And like, they stop talking. So that only encourages me. And so I tell them, I say, look, gentlemen, I love you. Today was one of the best days of my day, of my career as a teammate. And we have a chance to touch the world. We're going to touch the people. Something that, if you know me, I say that a lot, you know, not, not in a sexual way, but like in a social way. We're going to give everybody a social touch and we're going to touch the people through our, our teammateship and our brotherhood. And at least that's what I think I said. I don't really remember what I said, but it was something along those lines. So we go back to Miami, we proceed to win the next 26 games in a row. You know, we have a 27 game winning streak after that Toronto game of which everyone credits my speech to inspire that movement. And if you ask anybody who's on that bus, they'll say, what did Baddy say that day? They'll say, touch the people. Touch the people. So it became a metaphor, social metaphor to show to the world.

Did you have a helmet on when you were given this speech?

No, the helmet was off. The helmet was off. So it was probably the greatest speech that I don't remember ever giving.

And.

It was from the heart, though. That was the point. That was from the heart. No. And it led to the second longest winning streak in NBA history at the time. So touch the beat.

It's crazy because, you know, literally I remember like reading about this stuff during that time and they would, they would kind of cryptically reference, like they're like, what do you got? What the hell is going on? And they'd be like, well, you know, we had this speech from, from Badier. And I still remember being like, what the hell did he say? And then later getting to know you and your true knucklehead tendencies, of course it comes out, he's like, oh, he Was buzzed and it's a touch the people, you know, speech. I' I've heard speeches like this from you. Like, this is. This is. This is you. This is your gift. And so that's pretty cool.

I love that. That came from a. Like a. A team outing, right? Like, yeah, this was just a have fun release super bowl party and, like, not meant to be. What galvanized the team, bringing it back.

To, like, being around greatness, you know, the truly, truly great people I've met and I've had the pleasure to talk to you, whether it's in business or in sports, they're inclusive. Yeah, right. I've been playing, Playing with Tiger like crazy. He was a dude. He made me feel at ease. And, you know, playing with LeBron put me at ease. You know, playing against Kobe did not put me at ease, but, like, we had a different dynamic. But, you know, and so I. My category, my. My categorization of what greatness is, is the ability to bring people along with you.

That's a cool definition.

Not.

Not just.

Not just your singular talent.

Well, if you. If you really think about it, and Alex, I totally agree. I wasn't thinking this, but I actually was thinking about it only as credit to Shane that he sort of had the willingness to go and lead in that moment. Right. And you deserve it. You deserve that credit. But LeBron and Wade also deserve a lot of credit for making you feel at ease. Like, you're saying where you can be you. Be you at the highest level, and that is you at the highest level. Like, bringing people together, doing that, not feeling like, oh, I. Well, I can't say it because I'm not LeBron or Wade. And I think that that is, like, very underrated and awesome for those guys, don't you think? Oh, 100.

And your story about George and. And Henry, they brought you in. Oh, 100. You know, Peyton, he brought you in at that moment.

Yeah.

You know, even though your competitors. He brought you into, like, hey, man, this is.

No, I've been there, too. Yeah.

Yeah, I've been there. And that's like an. It's an amazing, amazing, amazing skill to. To bring people along with you on.

The journey with you guys as the sort of recipients. Imagine somebody else telling their story of interacting with you guys. Did you guys ever do that for folks where you, like, you know, brought them in, you gave them the space to lead, like, all these things? Imagine somebody the first time.

Yeah, his name. His name is Patrick Mahomes. Exactly. And he, you know, he took my Job and, you know. No.

Too soon. It's too soon.

I mean, we've really, we've really, you know, taken brother Smith out here today. You know, the super bowl commentary and then.

No, I, I mean, I think, honestly, I, I, I mean, I'm joking there, but I'm not. Like, I've told, like, again, I think anybody that's been through that, like, what that's like that it is lonely playing quarterback as a rookie, as a young guy, top draft pick with expectations. And again, we've talked about this a lot, but yeah, I, like, I, I had empathy when he got drafted, believe it or not, right. Like, when we traded up multiple draft picks to get him. And he's my, like, I still had in some ways, like, you know, you don't have no say. He had no say in this, like.

You know, amazing attitude.

I guess I tried to, as I got older, being very vulnerable at times to, around younger guys. Right. Because I knew I never was like that.

Right.

Like, I remember, like, being so daunted. And again, funny story. Like, I've talked to you guys about how much anxiety I had right before games. There's a funny go back to the Randy story. Like, I'll never forget one of my, the first games he's playing with us again, I remember, you know, you're, you're doing your routine in the locker room before the game, and I'm just. The weight of the world, I feel like's on me. And I walk over and I walk by Randy's locker, and he's got his feet propped up in the locker and he's laying down on the ground. So, like, his feet are up and he's got his head on a bat. Like, he's got, like, his backpack underneath him and he's got his laptop propped up in the locker room and he's watching spongebob Square. And it just, like, added, it just added to the, like the in on this.

Yeah. Holy shit.

This Guy just watches SpongeBob before. He's, like, so relaxed. And I'm like, I'm like, just like, I couldn't be more clenched up, you know, walking around and it was just like, oh. And then when I first got in the league, like, there were some guys that were in their heyday. Like, I never, I didn't play against Peyton, right? Like, we were never on the field at the same time, but, like, I played against Ray Lewis and I played against Brian Erlacher and like, Ed Reed and Troy Palomalu and these guys, these defenses. Like, I Mean, those three defenses, the Bears, the Steelers, and the Ravens, were like. They were so good. And they were like these, like, again, hall of Famers all over the place. And do you know what it's like getting under center and staring across it at.

At.

At Ray Lewis?

Like.

No, I mean, the mystique of it. Like, the. It's so scary. Like, I mean, he had the face mask and the visor and like, you. Have you guys ever seen Brian Erlacher in person?

No.

I mean, big man. He's a big man.

A mountain of a man playing middle linebacker. I mean, he's 6 5, 250 pounds. I mean, he's got, like, the barbed wire tattoo. It's like, holy.

Yeah.

You know, and you're like. Again, you feel like you're this, like, pimp squeak of a qb, understand? And you're, like, staring at these guys.

And they're trying to kill you. Yeah, you're trying to kill you.

Yes.

Yes. Oh, and so, like, it would have the same effect as a young guy like you. You'd be watching them all week on film, and then here they were, like, in the flesh.

Yeah. That's crazy. One of the things you asked earlier was, do you still have. Do you have imposter syndrome in it and you want. And I feel like I kind of sounded like, well, no, I don't. What's crazy is literally every time I talk to Henry or talk to George, I still have imposter syndrome. To this day, I still can't believe that they talk to me. I really mean that. I truly. When you described it as like, me and George share a golf instructor, I was like, that. Me and George don't share anything. He bestowed upon me an introduction to someone that is in his life, and I am deeply grateful for it, but I really mean it. Like, I. Like, I'm having lunch with him a couple weeks and I can't wait. And I still care so much about, like, I wonder how he feels about me after a meeting. Like, so I. With the. Some of the heroes. They're still. Still heroes to this day. And, like, still, like, there's no element of not having that imposter syndrome with some of these people for sure.

When I was in sixth grade, Isaiah Thomas was. Was very, very good to me growing up. Like, we didn't have any money, but he had an awesome basketball camp. And I always got a scholarship. You know, I don't know how I. How I got it, but my mom said, oh, you got. You got a scholarship? So I would go And I just love basketball and I love to compete. And one year, Isaiah would always bring players up to play one on one. And so I'm 6th grade, 12 years old, and I beat him.

What?

I beat him. Okay, how are you at this point? I'm like, I don't know, I'm probably six, six foot, six, three, whatever.

Okay, so you're like the same size as he is, right?

Yeah, yeah, I'm big. And I didn't really beat him, you know. Yeah, but. But like, at the time, like, it was in the paper, like, oh, the sixth grader beat, you know, Isaiah Thomas. You know, I could, you know, at the time, I thought I really beat him because I was playing my ass off. Like, I had. I hit like some jumpers and made some moves. It wasn't like he, like, let me totally. He let me go to the basket, but, like, I still had to make some shots.

Yeah.

And so, like, I can't underestimate, like, how much that gave me confidence because I really believe that, like, man, I could beat an. I could be an NBA player. I could be an NBA player.

Totally.

Right. And so, you know, Isaiah Thomas, obviously Hall of Famer and, And, you know, one of my heroes growing up. And so, like, that was one of the first brushes with greatness that I remember. And like, I just, you know, first feel very grateful for him just giving the opportunity to go to camp. So I love going to basketball camp and then, like, b. Like, I got to, like, play him and like, beat him and like, get a preview into this world that, like, I only could dream about. Like, it was, again, surreal. So I've been like, ever since, like, that experience, I've been, you know, just like you guys, just so grateful and just really in disbelief that you get to be around people who have done special things and, and crazy things that, that we've all dreamed about when we were kids and, and so, like, to. In a small way, we live that life now. And, And I know that we all take a lot of time to, to mentor other people and, and bring people along with us on. On our journey because it means. It means a lot. I mean, you know, and so no one. No one would ever call us great. Right? No one's ever, you know, no one's ever going to say, hey, you guys are. You guys are Titans. But we've done a few things, and I think the humility and gratitude that we have about doing those things came from somewhere. And we. We feel strongly about passing that along. That's. That's really the genesis of glue, guys, right? Yeah.

That's super cool. I agree. The Isaiah Thomas is cool. Like, again. And to your point, like, he made you feel like you belong.

This episode is so fun in that it's made me feel all that gratitude. You just said. Like, I didn't. You know, at the beginning, we were just telling. You're telling stories about your round, and I. I'm leaving feeling so good about, like, man, we're lucky. You know what I'm saying? Like, and you got to be grateful for that, and then you got to be good to people. Yeah. Pay it forward. Like, you know, on a different level, but. But pay it forward.

A more mediocre level for me, at least for me.