Should Ole Miss Let Lane Kiffin Coach? [G;ue Guys, Ep. 61]

They're going to be one of the 12 teams in the College Football Playoff that get to chase a national championship. I absolutely think Lane Kiffin gives them the best chance of success. I think it's crazy to say otherwise. Way better than being pissed off, sending Lane Kiffin packing and then you losing in the first round.

You know, we don't ever really talk about current events and current topics, but the one that's been on my mind here recently is obviously because it's gotten so much attention and so much uproar is this Lane Kiffin, you know, leaving ole Ms. For LSU. He wants to coach in the bowl game, you know, in the College Football Playoff, and that Ole Miss will not let him. Obviously, Ole Miss, all their alumni and fans and, you know, are pissed off that he left. And I, for me, I find it baffling. Honestly, I find it. I'm like, I just cannot wrap my head around this. Why they are so upset.

What part has baffled you why they.

Wouldn'T let him coach in the playoff? Like, it. This just. It makes zero sense to me. I, I do not understand this. Ole Miss is very historic, right? They've got a great. A long history. I should say. This is the first 11 win season ever in school history. Lane Kiffin, like six years ago, they were not very good. They bring him in, he's completely put them on the national stage. He's the offensive play caller, schemer. I mean, he does so much on this team.

And has turned them obviously into it, you know? You know, obviously this year, like a national brand.

Lsu, to be clear. To be clear, is a top five college football job and you could argue maybe top five football job in the country, period.

And this opportunity comes along and I mean, what was. What is the contract worth? I mean, 101 million.

I think it's 91 million over seven years with kickers, if they win a national championship. It's a robust financial contract.

Okay? Ole Miss, obviously, in the College Football Playoff. I think everybody is arguing that again, he should be able to coach in the playoffs if he wants to. Why wouldn't he? And he obviously said as much that he wanted to. And that the Ole Miss school and the people that be, the powers that be there, do not let him. Right. And. And again, obviously upset that he. I know that's the same. I know it's in conference. I get that it. They're not the same. They're not on equal footing, these two programs. And I just. I like, for me, I, I don't. I don't Understand it. I just don't get it.

There's so many, like, angles to attack this from. Okay, There is from Ole Miss administration standpoint. Right. Right. There's. From the team at Ole Miss standpoint. There's a team at LSU standpoint. There's an administrative perspective from. From LSU as well. Right. There's perspective of a family from Lane Kippen himself, his family. And so I would love to dissect that. Robbie, when. When. When you hear that.

When.

When we talk about it off camera. What. What. What's your. What was your initial reaction? Was it shock and awe By. By anything in this. In this circ.

Was.

It was an absolute circus.

It was a circus.

Great theater. I was thoroughly entertained entirely. I feel bad for the kids at Ole Miss the most.

You know, that that's who I. That's who I have empathy with. But what is your. What is your initial reaction to the. The. The. The Lang Kiffin?

Well, I'm really glad you're asking, like, the fan perspective here rather than, like, the, you know, you guys. Because you guys, you know, have lived something more similar to the Lane Kiffin thing. I. I'm. I'm witnessing it, Alex. Honestly, this is something where I think I have a pretty different starting point than you do. Like, I. I totally get why they don't want him to coach in the bowl game, and I don't. I'm not faulting him for taking the job.

You don't want to fulfill the destiny.

Of the season, you know, let brother, you know, state his case, please.

So I. I guess a few things. One, I think people going and doing, like, the job that they want to do, like, that. I get that. I get. And I get your point of, like, LSU is a better job. My dad went to lsu. A lot of my uncles went to l. Lsu. Like, frankly, like, if anything, I mean, I certainly care a lot more about LSU than I do about Ole Miss in general.

Right.

So if any bias I have should be towards lsu, I guess. But I think that land keeping going and taking that job. Got it. I think one. It's like a very sad state of college football that the job stuff is happening before the playoffs happen. Like, that just sucks. Because it sucks for him, it sucks for lsu, it sucks for Ole Miss. And, like, that's too bad. My reason that I understand where the administration is coming from is because of the transfer portal and because to me, it seems like you have a guy in conference who's just actively recruiting all of your best guys, you know, over to his New place, you know, and doing that while they should be trying to play for a national championship. And so that, to me, is like one big thing there. And I guess before you say, like, well, no, Lane Kiffin wouldn't do that, I'm going to listen.

No, no, no. I'm not saying. Let me. Let's.

Yeah, there's a non zero chance, Robbie. There's a non zero chance of that happening. Non zero.

Yeah, let's. Let's be very clear. Lane Kiffin. Very well will. Him not coaching does not change that fact, I hear. I don't understand. It is him not being there. I mean, he's still going to poach him.

I get it. I get it.

He's.

He's going to try and poach him. I got it. But, like, you know, one thing that's super interesting with that is, like, you know, there's no company that would let somebody go be the CEO of a competitor and then be like, hey, cool. Can you actually just like, stay on for six months while you pick our best guys for Q4?

Yeah, like, stick around for Q4. It's an important period for us.

Wouldn't do that. And then the only thing I would tell you on, like, Ole Miss and all that is, dude, like, you know, Ole Miss is running a. An entertainment program, if you really think about it, right? Like, they're running something to entertain their alumni. Like, what. What is any of college sports, dude? Like, I don't think the alumni are going to come out and support, you know, Lane, you know, here, and they're going to be so pissed. Did you see the airport?

Yes, I did, and that's my point. That's why it was ridiculous. A couple things. First off, again, him not being able to coach in the playoffs is not going to prevent him from poaching these players.

It might reduce the effectiveness.

He brought him two Ole Miss. He is the relationship. He's leaving the lsu. Like, do you think him not coaching in this is going to prevent any of that? And by the way, his much larger budget at lsu, do you think, like, the fact that he isn't being able to coach in the playoffs is preventing any of this? The other thing is, I actually think it's very shortsighted. And I think it's because, listen, Ole Miss would be better served, I think, right? Like, whether or not whoever they're looking at is their future head coach, like, obviously a relationship with your past, I.

Think, you know, Baby Eli's going to be the head coach.

Yeah. Is a part of this but if they. If they had won a playoff game and they. Or they go to the national championship, right? Like, I just think that bodes well for your program long term. Way better than being pissed off, sending Lane Kiff and packing and then you losing in the first round.

Shane, what do you think? I feel like you're, like, rational here, but also understand team. Like, talk to us.

You need two things to have a successful team. You got to have the highest trust possible and the highest mission focus possible. Okay? With Lane Kiffin, okay, for whatever reason, going to lsu, and that's his decision. I'm not knocking that decision. And, like, he had to do what was best for. For him, that trust has been broken. You cannot walk into that locker room from a player standpoint and see a guy who told me, hey, if you believe in my vision, we will win, all right? You will be the best player possible. Because when you go to a school, Alex, and you know this, okay, as much as we want to say, hey, you got to pick a program, a school program school for the. For the sociology major or for the public policy major. No, like, I would say vast majority of college athletes pick a school because they believe in the coaches vision they have for them when they recruit them in high school. That is purely based on trust. I trust this person. I trust their vision. I trust they're going to take care of me when, you know, the bullets fly, okay? And the mission focus is, look, we all want to win, all right? If my player does well, I do well, right? And we all sort of ride the train to get uptown together. And so the trust has been broken. And you cannot tell me that if Lane Kiffin, all of a sudden, if they had a. If Keith Carter, the Ole Miss athletic director, had a change of heart and says, you know what, Lane? I was wrong. You know what? Come back and coach. And he walks into that locker room and gives a speech, do you think that the guys are gonna be like, let's go. We're getting the band back together? Hell no. So, like, forget the fans, forget the administration. You lose the locker room because you lost the trust of the people you thought believed in you. They can't win. So the talk of, like, a theoretical national championship run would never happen because you cannot win without trust and the trust has been broken. So, like, from that standpoint, it's a logical explanation as to why Ole Miss would not allow Lane Kiffin to coach this game.

I honestly think you made my point for me that, like, the trust is with the coach, right? Like the Vast majority of these kids playing on Ole Miss's roster went there for Lane over the Ole Miss name. Like they. Like again, like you're going to play for a guy. He sold them something and guess what? It worked. They won 11 games. And so now all of a sudden, to not be able to finish what you've been working for since last February, right? Like doing winter workouts, what he sold them worked, right? Like, come here. We're going to win. Like, this is our philosophy. This is what we're going. Going to do. Like their quarterback, like Trinidad. Trinidad Chambliss. I think that's how you say his name. He came from Ferris State. I don't even know what division that's in. Okay. And he turned him into one of.

The best quarterback, Alex, national champion.

One of the best quarterbacks in the country, right? Like, I.

Hey, this guy with one scholarship offer, all of a sudden bougie on us, you know?

Yes. No, no. I just think all these guys, listen, they. They're there for lame. They weren't. They didn't go there.

You're. You're 100% right. When you said it worked. It no longer works. And there's a difference. There's a difference. It worked. Past tense. But, you know, you. We live in a business, in a world sports world. What have you done for me lately? And it is not what happened in the past that induces fealty. It is what can you do right now? Because the present moment is the most important moment of this team. Not what's going to happen, not what has happened. What works in this present moment and no longer does this equation work in the present moment, it worked. No matter how well it worked.

Alex, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that when he recruited any of these guys, they had offers at lsu, Alabama, whatever, and he was like, hey, come to Ole Miss with me, right? Like, don't go to those guys. Come here.

Probably not a ton, but some, yes, they recruit some of the same kids.

The reason that that to me has some, like, relevance is like, I do feel like. I would imagine that for some of those guys, they feel like there's hypocrisy in two dimensions. Some of the players.

Right.

One is you told me not to go to one of these schools, and you told me to come build this thing. And I guarantee you. I don't guarantee, but I suspect there was some pitch, you know, you want to be building something, you don't want to go build on someone else's platform. You want to be the platform. There's some part of like, well, dude, you just, like, said what you needed to say to get me here, and when you got the chance, you went and took it. And then the second thing, at least I would think is his point that I would imagine he says to them, this whole year is like, yo, I don't want you thinking about anything else. I don't want you thinking about girls. I don't want you thinking about, you know, your NFL career. I want you thinking about winning a national championship for Ole Miss. And then it's like. And then all of a sudden, but. But new now, dude, when you can go get paid, you're all of a sudden not thinking about our national championship. You got visits going, you know, can you imagine how pissed he'd be if one of his players has a visit to another school in the middle of the year, right? Like, hey, oh, LSU sent the pj. So, like, I went see if I should be there.

Yeah, but that's, you know, the timing of this is not his fault, to.

Your point, but it still breaks the trust.

He didn't go. He. LSU flew the plane to him and made him the offer.

Listen, if you want me this bad, you want me this bad, I'm not talking to you till after the season's ending. And I grit that there would be risk, but that's what he'd want his players to do. You know, like. And I like brother Badier's framework here, which is, dude, like, how do you listen to him if you're an Ole Miss player right now?

You know, I'll be like, two things. First off, you guys are acting like the majority of this roster at Ole Miss already went to a different school at some point. They've already changed teams. And guess what? They're probably going to change teams next year. Even if Lane was stated Ole Miss, these guys. So that.

So you're saying they understand what Lane did and are okay with it.

They have no loyalty. They're transferring every year. Like, what are we talking about? If they play great, they're. They're going up to, hey, Ohio State's going to offer me or LSU is going to offer me, or, you know, like, they're all moving up. And so the loyalty in college sports has. Is not the same. These guys. I bet there's on. I bet you could count on two hands the amount of kids that have been at Ole Miss for four years on that roster. Like, it just. It's not. It's not how the game is like, they were going to leave anyway next year. This is the other thing. I. And I'm. And I'm saying this from firsthand experience.

I went undefeated my last year in college. Undefeated, Right. We're one of the top four teams in the country. And Urban Meyer took the job to Florida before our bowl game, okay? And we played in the bcs. And guess who coached us in our bowl game? Urban. Okay? And we beat the out of pit. It worked. He gave us the best chance to win.

Like, what if he'd gone to byu? No, because I'm just trying to, like, play it, right?

Those are not the same. That's not the same analogy.

Fine, fine. But, like, maybe.

Maybe from an old Mr. Great analogy.

Great analogy.

Florida's not the same.

Ole Miss had never won more than 10 games. I mean, my year, Utah, we won 13. Like, what are we talking about?

Just. Just answer my question just for a second. If he went to BYU or if he went to Udecide somewhere else that Utah deems a rival. I'm talking like a rival. How do you feel then?

Oh, you're. You're. You gave it away. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple itunes, his nostrils just flared, okay? And basically he gave away his answer. I was watching him. If you're watching on YouTube, all right, Alex is, for the record, his nostrils just flared. So whatever he says, know that his nostrils flared like a. Like a Mustang, you know, Demon Mustang.

With all due respect to, you know, Eli Wright, you know, both guys that we've had, glue guys that we've had on the Ole Miss head coaching football job is not the same as the LSU job. It is not the same. They are not peers.

I got it.

Especially.

Especially in a college football landscape that is becoming more national.

I think we have to, like you. You have to take into account the calendar. Like I think Robbie said it said it. Well, like, the calendar created this crazy situation, right? If the transfer portal happens after the last BCS game, the College Football Playoff, okay? The dynamic is completely different. It's completely different. But because the portal is, like, now, and people are scrambling to fill rosters and look, LSU is paying a lot of money next year. They want to win next year, and so they can't wait two months, right? And so if Lane Kiffin could, like, change the calendar, he would have changed the calendar, right? So you can't ding him on making this decision with the information that's. That's at hand, right? So let's take that out of the. Out of the equation, right? The. The question is, this is the situation, right? Should he be allowed to go coach the team in the playoff?

I pose a question to both you guys. Let's say the rules were different. Let's say that he had to wait. The NC2A had some power to make schools wait till after the playoff to hire. And it's like the NFL. The NFL does this all the time, obviously, for playoffs. But what happens is you get these handshake deals, right? The deal's done. They've negotiated it with the agent. It's just not signed. So there's a handshake deal that Lane's going to be the next LSU coach. It's not official, right? But he. Everybody knows it's done. Let's be very clear about this. But he stays on. He's the Ole Miss head coach. He's coaching through the playoff. Like, what is different?

I. I'm not sure it is different. I think what you're saying is fair. I think that. I think if he. I think if there. If it's. If it's effectively done, but it's not signed, I kind of feel the same way.

I think.

You can bullshit your way through the playoffs. All right? We've all seen it. Coaches are good at coach speak, and they can say, no, I'm focused on, you know, the College Football Playoff, you know, you can. You can delay it long enough to say, you know what? I had to change your heart, you know, and this. We had a great run, and I was focused on the playoff, but now I looked at my future and I need to make a change, right? So, like, you. You can talk without talking in sports for months and keep up the charade. So, like, it's a different. The fact that he actually signed the deal is different. It's official.

So can I. Can I. Can I broaden this for a second? Just. Just away from Lane. A lot of stuff is, like, shared myths and storytelling, right? I mean, there's lots of points, but, like, you know, it's like, even countries don't exist, right? Like, we made up the borders. Like, they. There's not actually a difference between, like, where the US And Canada meet. We, like, decided, you know, down here is the US up there is Canada. But, like, there's a shared myth of, like, what it is to be in a country. Like, there's lots of stuff. The reason that I think this is important is if you think about sports, sports are, like, the ultimate shared myth thing, right? Like, you know, there. There is a tribalism that comes along with ole Ms. Or LSU or even, you know, an NFL team or an NBA team. Okay. And as you get more and more transactional, you are reducing the amount of like shared myth of what the heck the school is. And like even when you guys were in school, right, like it meant something different to be a Utah guy when you were at school or a Duke guy when you were at school, Shane, than it does today for, for any school just because of the transfer portal, right? Like, it is less identifying like where you go to college today than it is, you know, when you guys are playing. It's even less identifying in the pros also because it's more transactional. One of the things I was thinking about, Alex, is sort of like what does that mean for whether people are going to give a shit about these sports in the future? The more that you, you know, pound away from the shared myth of like it means something to play for this school, right? It means something to be a part of that. Do the fans care in 10 or 20 years at some point about like, you know, programs or anything like that?

I think college sports traditionally was very regional, right? Like you had this again, huge regional culture. You obviously only really recruited regionally.

And that mean. Yeah, kids went there for, you know, oftentimes obviously the majority of the kids on a roster their entire time, right? Four to five years, right.

I think more and more now. And this is the point of why I, I'm arguing that LSU and, and Ole Miss aren't totally like even par. Is because we are moving to like a national model, right? Like major major college football and college basketball. These are national brands that recruit coast to coast and LSU's brand and platform is bigger and better than Ole misses. And again as like we've obviously seen the conference roll up happen, right? You're going to play a coast to coast schedule. This is going to look like a mini NFL. It already kind of does with the free agency of nil and transfer portal. Like if you're an LSU fan, this is a major get, right? Like, and, and you're, you are, you're totally open to getting great transfers coming in. Does that make sense? Like you don't really care that he played at Oklahoma the year before if he's going to give us the best chance to win this year. You love him, you know, and to go win a national championship because that's obviously like what you're hunting. The whole environment is changed. Whereas like in the old days of like winning the, winning the Southeast and maybe ole Ms. And LSU were some sort of like rival. Like those days, I think are, are numbered. You know, like it's. You're competing against Ohio State, you're competing against Oregon, you're competing against USC for national players. These, these teams look like little NFL's, right? Texas Tech all of a sudden like these guys on that roster are established almost semi professional players that have played a lot of football, right? They're very proven. They've probably played at two schools prior and now they're wearing LSU on their helmet.

Well, you know, to, to Ravi's point, and I appreciate that perspective, Alex, you know what, what are people tribal about and will that last for the next two decades?

Right?

So I would argue that, you know, the political system, which probably why we have so many problems in our country, very tribal, right. And that's not going away anytime soon, right? Sports allegiances, very tribal, right. When I mean tribal, I mean connected to a group that's larger themselves, that evokes emotion. Right? You can be connected to, you know, Greenpeace, but it may not evoke the emotion that, you know, being part of a political party or, or a, or a sports franchise, you know. And I'm trying to think what are the other institutions, you know, in our country at least that, that create the emotion, create the identity like sports and politics.

I, I get you're right. There's not many. Right. Like, which is why the. Did you guys see the Thanksgiving Day football numbers just came in.

What did they say?

So Chiefs, Cowboys, which was to be expected, is by far the most reg. Most watched regular season NFL game of all time, up 36% from the next closest ever. Okay. I mean it took a 30, I.

Wouldn'T guess that jump.

Wow.

And I think to your point, like nothing really brings people together.

And it kind of has to be something tribal to do that. Right? Like it has to be something that is like incredibly polarizing I think to get people's attention. And the combination obviously of Cowboys, Kansas City, who are both of this. Right. Like you love or hate both these teams at this point. And it created the most regular, most watched regular season game of all time by, by a landslide. But like to real quick to go back to the whole tribal thing again of kind of what I was saying, I guess about the SEC is like Ole Miss is still playing this old fashioned regional tribal game, right? Like hey, we're border states. We have this, you know, we, we are rivals. Like I don't think LSU is playing that game anymore, right? Like their rival is Ohio State. Right. Like their Rival is. Are these big. Like, they just lost Bryce Underwood to Michigan, right? Like, they're playing a bigger game. Clearly, their governors jumped in. I mean, the whole state is. Is crazy about this and their expectations is. Is very different. And I think that's where the game is going, is what I'm saying.

Alex, is. Is. Is a locker room. Is a football locker room a tribe?

I love that question because. And you know, this, like, the brotherhood in college, especially, like, when we played college sports of, like, being together for four, coming in together as freshmen, right? Like learning the culture from the seniors and like, you know, having your running right, and that being your alumni for life, right? Like, you have one, like, one alumni that's intense and strong, right? Like, when you get to the end, you get to professional sports, I should say, and your roster is a revolving door, and there's guys get cut and traded all the time, and no one team ever looks the same, right? Like, the turnover from year to year is crazy. Especially the NFL.

Like, so is. Is. It is a locker room a tribe. And I don't care if we're talking peewee Pop Warner or the NFL, that business is a locker room a tribe. If you're on the Kansas City Chief locker room and you have to walk into Mile High Stadium, right, are you a group of individuals trying to get something done, or are you one singular unit trying to accomplish.

Okay, I get your point. Yes. It is a tribal mentality. Hold on. There are guys playing when I go walk into Mile High Stadium as the Kansas City Chiefs, and we're taking them on. This is the crazy part. Yes. It's tribal. After the game, there's guys on the Denver Broncos that, like, I played with, like, that used to be on my tribe. Does that make sense? Like. And you know this, like. But, like, we can go at it.

We're talking. We're. Again, we're not talking about the future. We're not talking about the past. We are talking about what is right now. And I would agree that any sports team, you know, we've all played on sports, you know, especially when you have to go into an opposing arena, right, and everyone's booing you and trying to beat you and you feel you have to circle the wagons, as they say, and play. It is a very tribal mentality. It is us against the world, literally.

And this is the point. This is the point, actually, I'm making Alex, which is. I actually agree with you. I think your point on Ole Miss versus lsu, they are playing different games because it's going to be tough for Ole Miss. It's not impossible, but it'd be tough for Ole Miss to get to the level that LSU is trying to be of like this national program.

Right.

You know, so I, I agree with that point and I understand the point you're making of like the, the tribe is changing. I think the thing I'm trying to say, which Shane, you're alluding to, is I actually genuinely worry about like, what happens to sports fandom if the teams are fully transactional and not tribal. Because it is not actually interesting to watch an All Star game at all. Right. Because no one gives a shit about it, you know, and the only thing that actually makes sports interesting is the like risk that comes along from like watching people do stuff and the team coming together and all these things. And the more that you get to. It's just like I'm kind of here to get mine and I'm only here for as long as I need to be here. You just, you really are destroying like the, the whole point of the shared myth, like even the names of the stadiums you mentioned, the reason that the name of the stadium is interesting is because the history of what's happened in that stadium and other things that have taken place and all of these things are like the stories. And I guess if you take the logical extreme of what we're saying, at some point it's going to be like game by game, someone's going to switch, right? Like, oh, I had a good game, let me go to the better team now. Right? And like, why is that interesting to watch?

I agree with you. I do think the year over year turnover, I, I agree at some point does potentially take away. But I would argue and, and two things. Again, Shane, I want to go back to your point. I would actually argue and I don't know if you agree that the teams that have the best tribal mentality and I would argue like that culture are the, are the more. Are the better. Are the better teams, right? Like the teams that actually have that like strong kind of us mentality, I think are better teams in general.

Teams for high trust. Yes.

Yeah. Do you guys not like the new Duke quarterback? Do you guys not think he's good? Did he not think he got you guys to the ACC championship? I love Utah's new quarterback, Devin Dampier. I think he's great. He played for New Mexico last year. We've got him on. He's come in and fit the identity really well. Like, we've had a great season. Like, do you guys not like Duke's new quarterback.

Here's what I'll tell you. Here's what I'll tell you. I don't know this, Alex, but I'll tell you this. I would bet that the level of connectivity that Duke alums have to the basketball program is lower or harder to reach today than it was when, like, Shane was there. Because of the people staying for longer. Like, the fact that the team turns over as much, I do think I would suspect it is, like, harder to have alums be as connected to it as they were 20 years ago. That'd be my guess. I don't know.

But yeah.

He'S great. He's great, he's great. But if I knew that, you know, he announced right now that he is going to go play for North Carolina, okay. The school next door, right. I wouldn't feel great about him, you know, even if he. Even if we won, I wouldn't feel great about him playing.

Me neither. There's some, something about it in there.

Like, hold on, hold on. Ole Miss, LSU are not. North Carolina, Duke, like, that's not a fair.

Yeah, we're talking about a next door neighbor that, that plays in the same sandbox. Okay? This has nothing to do with like, the stature of the programs, right, Alex?

This is all the same shit in business too. Like, by the way, which is like, dude, I can tell you that every company is fighting to have some purpose or culture or tribe aspect that makes people stick around there, you know, more so than they would purely for the money. Like, everybody is trying to have some reason that they keep people, you know, and so I guess the only thing I still. I understand your point of like, well, you don't like it. You don't. You don't like this guy coming. I'm like, yes. I think maybe the point I'm making is I think in the name of us, like, providing good opportunities that are rational and reasonable for people to go do what's best for them, right? As college athletes or professional athletes, which, by the way, makes total sense. I actually in my heart believe that people are forgetting that, like, the real thing that the NBA or the NFL or college football is competing against is not each other, it's every other form of entertainment on the fucking planet, which is that the real competitor of The NBA is TikTok. The real competitor to NFL is TikTok. It is what else I could be looking at right now. And the only way, in my opinion, to make that compelling is to have stories and all these other things around it that create tribalism because otherwise, why don't you just look at your phone and look at some video that's made for you?

Okay, I agree, I agree. I would argue though that first off, live sports are just crushing. Tick tock. Like when you think about again, the things that bring together people at the same place, same time, there are very few things and most of them are live sports, especially football, basketball. And again, the model of professional sports where you do have free agency and trades but you have elite competition. And again, I would argue that's the model that both college basketball and college football are chasing right now. Let's take the SEC as a whole, football wise, like again, the roll up that they've had and bringing on schools and A and M and Missouri and Oklahoma, like.

It has become a mini NFL because it is so competitive. So you no longer get these blowouts or lopsided games like every single week. These matchups are intriguing. Every team is really good. That is the reason why the NFL is so popular is because predicting these games is impossible. Right? Like it, the parody is so close. And again, I think that's what's going to happen. You're no longer going to get Alabama playing Chattanooga State and beating them 50 to 0. Like those days are gone. We're going to get to a point where the top 40, 50, 60 programs have consolidated talent and are playing each other every single week. And that as a whole is much more enticing than the old day of tribalism. And again, watching Duke just murdered Jacksonville State.

Like, Alex, I have a question for you. I have a question for you. What if the inverse of the situation played out okay? And by that I mean week 10 Ole Miss comes out and says, you know what? Yeah, we've been successful, but I just don't like the direction the plate, the program is going. We're going to part ways with Lane Kiffin at the end of the year. We're not going to renew his contract and we're going to start, we're going to start a search for a new coach at the end of the year and you publicly announce this, have a press conference and everybody knows that Lane Kiffin is out. Would you want Lane Kiffin coaching that team for the rest of the year? Same team, same scheme, dynamics are different. Everyone knows he's leaving, he's not coming back. Do you trust Lane Kiffin to run that team and get the same output that you have to that point?

I mean, and you could argue he's coaching for his job, right? Like he's got to go Coach for his next job. I mean, this happens with lame duck. Lame duck coaches broken by in the.

Locker room with the guys trust him the same. They look at him the same. Would they give the same effort for a lame duck coach who they know is out the door at the end of the year?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lame duck coach certainly doesn't carry. I mean, the consequences obviously end at the end of the season, right? Like, he. He can't. His power is going to be gone. So it's. It's like very short term. So, you know, your coaching would have to change if they were having success, if the record were the same and I were still a player. Like, given. If everything else was the same, like, I still would want to play for him, right? Because, like, he gives me the best chance. If I were that quarterback, if I were Trinidad. Yeah, I want him calling plays and game planning because this is giving me the best chance for whatever I want next. Does that make sense? They're mutually the same, I think, like, what. What if on. On again, like, since the. What if Ole Miss had said he gets hired lsu. What if Ole Miss had celebrated him? Listen, this is the greatest team in Ole Miss history. Lane Kiffin helped turn this program around. We wish him nothing but the best. We absolutely would love for him to coach this team and finish off this magical season. Right? And yeah, like, what. What if that had been the relationship? Like, I don't see why that wasn't a potential game plan here. Like, how did that. How did. Practically for you.

I think it messes up two things. I think on one hand, I think it messes up the. I really think that, like, that would be a very difficult message to sell to its fans. And it's. It's like donors and dude, look at the people at the airport. Look at how pissed they were. These people drove to the private airport to go and throw the middle finger salute. Like, the. I just think, Alex, like, what you're describing is sort of like, unemotional almost. And I think that, like, the whole reason this is interesting to people is because it is emotion. Nobody wants to believe that, like, Jerry Seinfeld did this bit a while ago of, like, what you're rooting for by being a sports fan is rooting for laundry. Because the only thing that actually stays the same as the jerseys, everything else changes the more if people start believing they're rooting for laundry, nobody cares. Like, Ole Miss, actually, I think needs to fan this fire, this anger of like, no, like, that's not us. We mean something to be here. And I don't know. I just feel like if they were like, yeah, dude, it's all good. Like, you know, people come, people go, that, that destroys the myth.

I just think they're playing again, like, they're still appealing to, like, the local car dealer more than what they should be appealing to, which is, like, potentially their future quarterback in Southern California. Like, they're not playing the national game. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, if they'd have handled it like this, I think it's a more appealing job for the next coach.

But I think them going and admitting.

That they're not playing, there's no way, Alex. There's no way. If you aren't with us, you're against us. Yeah. And that's that, that's the bottom line. If you're not with us, you're against us.

I, I, I, I agree with that.

I also think if they'd have gone and won a national championship this year or had success with Lane, which he definitely gives them a better chance of, that is so much better for your program long term. If you go to this national championship and you're Ole Miss, and it's like, holy smokes, how many eyeballs is that, Right? Like, how much attention are you getting? And all of a sudden you have clout. Like, they lose in the first round because they were so pissed off about Lane. Like, what did that, that did not serve you. Like, you were emotional, you got emotionally hijacked. And, like.

You could, like, you could.

Have a million different outcomes of this. Okay? If they go in, Lane comes back and they get BL first round, the narrative is they were so distracted by the circus. Like, what the heck was Ole Miss thinking to allow this happen? This guy who wasn't going to be there did not have the trust of.

The players focused on coaching the guys. You know, like, you know, like, he.

Was focused on lsu, not Mississippi.

Like, like, like, do you guys not think he gives them the best chance to win?

I don't.

I think this interim guy. You think this interim guy stepping in their. All these kids, head coaches is gone, right? Like, they don't. They think they have a less of a chance.

The good news is. The good news is we actually get to see this. Okay, so Charlie Weiss Jr. Who was the offensive coordinator, coordinator for Ole Miss this year, all right? Right hand man of Lane Kiffin next year, he is going to be the OC at LSU next year. But he's been granted an opportunity to come back and Be the OC for the College Football Playoff. And so the good news is we're going to be vindicated. All right? We're going to do a follow up. Glue guys on who is right and who is wrong. Does the people who have scorned the home team but return to finish the job actually enhance trust or has the trust been destroyed? It's going to be a fascinating disease.

I have another question for both of you guys. Okay. What are teams that you would not go and play for? Okay. Even if it was like, good for you, for your. For, you know, anything. So I was like, play it through. Like, Alex, like, I, I don't think you'd go to byu.

No.

Right.

Like never.

Right. And there is some reason there's some rivalry there that you would not go through. And now, like, is in the NFL, is there any team that you're like, no, I wouldn't play there currently. No, no. Like, because of your, like, loyalty to your current.

Oh, no, no.

Okay. The jets. Because of Woody.

No, I'm just joking.

What about, what about you?

Yeah. All the money in the world could not get me to be a Maryland terrapin.

I, I love that. And so Alex, the reason that that to me seems like this relevant is. I understand your point, which is Ole Miss and LSU is not comparable to Utah. Byu.

Right.

But I think for Ole Miss, this idea of like, anyone in our conference, like, we expect like that, that is just like spitting in our face. You are not one of us. All that. I get that. And I think it's just a matter of degree. You know what I'm saying?

Like, okay, and I, and I say this. Kyle Whittingham is the longtime head coach at the University of Utah. 20 years. I mean, he's. He was an assistant there for a long time. Hall of Fame.

Guess.

Guess where he went to college?

BYU.

BYU.

BYU. Okay. Kalani Sataki, BYU's current head football coach. Guess what his position was before he got hired at byu. He was the Utah defensive coordinator. Okay, like, get. Guess what, like, when he, when he took the BYU job, we did not boo the. Out of him. There's. He didn't have to fly down. He drove down. Because we're so close. But, like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, this just didn't happen. Right? And like, when. That game.

When did it happen? The time when this happens is the most important thing. And the most important thing. It did happen at the same time when you're entering the most critical juncture of the year.

This is not Lane's my point. Why are they pissed at Lane? LSU came after him and offered him a pot of gold and one of the best football jobs in the country. And we're not arguing that. It's like, it is. It's. It's the Godfather, like, right? I'm saying, like, you just can't say.

No, dude, no, it's not. It's not. It's not. That's not true. And the reason it's not true is like, dude, hold on. Lane, Kevin already makes millions of dollars a year. Like, a lot of millions. Not like, you know, not the same. Makes a lot of money. I get it. I go home. But like, you're saying the Godfather offer, like, he already has an amazing job. He also has gone for six years to donors, and he's gone to players, and he's been like, hey, listen, we're going to build something better than what those guys got. He's gone to all these people for all this time. He has definitely said nasty things about lsu. I'd never go to Baton Rouge. I'd rather live in Ole Miss. This is the greatest place in the world. It's all the stuff that he's gone and said. He's gone to the local car dealership. He's gone to the restaurants. He said, Oxford, Mississippi, is the greatest town in the world. He's got his dog there. He hasn't just, like, transactionally gone and, like, been a football coach. He's, like, pumped up the town.

He said it at the school before he was at Ole Miss. He has not been in Ole Miss his entire life. Like, this is the game. He, like, what are we talking about? Like, this is ridiculous.

You're ignoring the shared myth.

Listen, I'm. Urban Meyer is going into the College Football hall of Fame this year, right? It's next week. He's going in on Tuesday. I'm. He has a big party. He's having a great big party. It's being hosted by four schools. All four schools that he coached at are hosting this, right? There's going to be players from all four schools. Like, what the fuck are we talking about? And I. The whole Charlie Weiss thing. I know he's the offensive coordinator. I'm glad that Lane's, like, letting him go do that. Let's be very clear. Lane calls every play. Lane does the game planning, right? Like, I'm not saying Charlie Weiss doesn't have input on it, but, like, Lane is the guy, okay? Like, so it's not totally comparable. And then, like, why does Charlie Weiss Jr. All of a sudden have he has trust with the program. Like those kids are going to trust him.

No, they're not. They're not going to trust him. I would love to be a fly on the wall. Those offensive meetings.

This is what we're going to do. This is what we're going to do. Those guys be like, man, go take your, go take your money bags and get out of here. We'll be fine without you. We'll be fine without. And people would.

Some guy that's never called plays.

People would rather go down with a group that they trust and they feel or are fighting for the same thing. Right. Then compete with people who have maybe ulterior motives. That's a hot take. But that's absolutely right. People would rather go down with the ship with people they trust, they respect and admire and have gone through adversity with and created bonds that they'll remember forever. This wholeness team will remember forever. Then go down. Right, with mercenaries.

100%. I disagree. I'm the quarterback. I could have a bet. I could have a guy that I.

Absolutely donation at me.

Listen, like if there was a coach that I absolutely aligned with like everything like we were locking step so tight and so close and everything that we believed in and he was not a very good game planner and play caller and you go out there and you get your ass kicked. Like, I'm sorry, no, I'm taking the coach who I don't like but gives me the best chance of going out there and actually having a chance of success. Like I'm taking that every day of the week.

Yes, but if you trust him, if you trust him.

No, you trust him.

No, no, I like, I trust him that he's good at what he does. But I don't like.

Yeah, okay, that's, that's trust.

I don't trust him to have my back. Right. Like I like. But when I'm on the field, I have a better chance of like success with, with this person involved.

Well, I'm taking trust in life is different. You don't have to like people, but you have to trust them.

Hey Shane, I have a question for you. Let's say it's not to arrival. Okay. And let's just play this through for a second. Let's say that when you were at Duke before the final four in 2001, coach K agrees to coach the Lakers. Okay. This hypothetical, obviously it actually came up three years later. Didn't come up during the season. We all know that the goat would be like, I'M not talking to you during the tournament because that's not who he is. But. But we're going to leave this anyway for this thing. But it gets announced he's leaving. He's going to coach the Lakers, so it's not a college team.

Do you think that there's broken trust there or do you think it's just different because it's the NFL or the NBA and it's. You know what I'm saying? Like, he has so much trust from all that time. What do you think happens in that scenario?

I. I definitely think there's broken trust. Look, anytime that you again, sell the dream, right, and go through the fires and we had the miracle minute, right? We have a loss of Virginia and we have the great practices, the bad. You create something very special, right. That you want to see to the end. And if a leader on that journey all of a sudden has motives elsewhere, I cannot put my trust fully in that leader anymore. And look, I want to win. And so I'm going to do my job to the best of the ability. But no longer do I have the psychological safety that the person who I entrusted my dreams, my hopes with has me at the center of their thoughts to keep me safe and give me the best chance to win. Right. It's. It's human nature. I no longer feel that. And so the fact that he's going to the Lakers, is that better than going to.

Definitely. Great.

Okay, great. So, like, great. So it's a little, it's a little less stinging.

Yeah.

But the loss of trust is the same.

If you were a senior. Is that the same answer? Like it's your last year, it's your last run again. This happens right before the tournament. But you've been working so hard. You guys got. You think you have a chance to win the tournament. You obviously, I would assume, think you have a better chance with Coach K coaching, but maybe you don't. But, like, you wouldn't want him to finish it out.

Yeah, of course I'd want Coach K on the sideline. Great. But that doesn't mean I beat my best with him. And that's what we're, that's what we're talking about here. Ole Miss doesn't think that, that the team will be the best under Lane Kiffin because of the loss of trust. So. Yes, but Coach Gabe, great, you're going to the Lakers. But like, dude, you've preached this from day one. We've had to sacrifice for each other that we have a common. Our only goal is to win the national championship. And we're so singularly focused. I didn't party all year. I didn't chase girls. Like, you know, I, I just focused on basketball and your mind isn't here.

We'll tell you this though, Alex, like, at least to me on like the Lane Kiffin thing, I do think it's relevant that, like, dude, this is not the first time. Like, this, this dude. Like, no, I know. You're like, we know.

This is my point. Like, fool me once. Like, come on, what are we talking about?

You know, you, you are, you are in the know. Is this situation analogous to the engineers who left Google and Apple and all the places in the Valley to chase Mark Zuckerberg's extreme?

You know, I can. Analogous.

And what is the talk, what is the talk in, in the, in the engineering rooms, in the meetings about the people who either are coming to Meta or have left to go to Meta? Is that, is that different?

Is it the same?

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I can promise you. This is why I love our conversations. This is the only podcast in the world that's talking about Lane Kiffin and AI engineers. I am certain.

Actually, it's a really good analogy.

I think that's what I'm saying. I agree, but I just mean that, like, man, you know, I hope people realize this is why you're here. Okay. These are the connections that you don't know that you'd be making. So I actually think, Shane, it's very good point. So I think a few things, one, so no, I don't think they're the same. And I think there's a few things. One, I think a lot of the AI engineers who ended up like going from one of these labs to the other and specifically to Meta, Like, a lot of these people are like first generation immigrants. Like, they are people who are really young and whose families have nothing. And so one of the things that people talk about, I see Alex flaring his nostrils again. But like, one of the things that I think people forget about is I'm like, these people are like academics from like China or India or whatever. And so like for. To get an opportunity to make like generationally life altering money and for someone to be like, no, you should place like this other mission above it. It's tough. It's a tough pitch to make to somebody, I think, who genuinely, you know, oftentimes is young and doesn't really have a lot. That's one thing. I think the second thing is right now, see, Al, right now I See him, he's just like, so, you know, whatever. I kind of think that on the business side, especially when you're not the leader, like, these people are more like the players. I think that they are not the person who's like, kind of rallied the troops and circled the wagons. They are, like, doing the work. You know what I'm saying? And I think that is. It's to me more analogous to a player leaving in free agency than it is to, like, the leader of, you know, men, so to speak, going in the middle of it, you know. And then the third thing I do think is, like, I do think this is a bit more of, like, an infinite game. And I think the timing really matters here. Like, Lane didn't do it in between seasons and it's not his fault, but it did happen, like, in the. Right before the like, you know, pinnacle of the journey. And it's just like, really sticks to it. And so, like, no, I don't think they're the. The same, you know, thing. Alex, please go ahead.

Please not contain himself, folks.

Alex Smith pissed me off today.

First off, this the first reason that hoy these engineers are first generation and don't have a lot of money. Hey, by the way, the socioeconomic population of college football. Let me tell you how well off that is, right? Like, no different than college football.

We're talking about Lane. We're not talking about the random linemen.

And hold on. And you made the analogy that, like, these poor engineers are picking between zero and. And a lot of dough. They're going to get a lot of dough wherever they play. And so, like, if they played at their current team, they would have been pretty well off already. Like, again, you know, they chose. They chose more, right? Like, and again, they thought it was a better brand and it was more money and a better offer.

But you don't fault them for it. Like, the same point, you're just like, they should go. They should do what they gotta do.

Again, this whole entire argument is not about fault, okay? This is personal choice. Who are we to judge what. Lane Kiffin in his heart. Okay, so it's. This is the. We're arguing now.

They're judging the shit out of him.

Is it. Is it appropriate for him to come back and coach his team? So, you know, engineer goes from apple to meta.

I can promise. You know, what is interesting is, Shane, to your point, they would actually totally take them back to, like, run the next training run.

They definitely. And it's happened, you know, But I think the real thing, Alex Whatever. Yeah, you can, you can dispute my money point. The leader point is different. Like, they're not the only one, you know?

Yeah, I, I agree. But, well, but like the, the Alex Wang, I mean, right, like that. It's not that far off.

I mean, he's the founder CEO of Scale and he took a boatload of money to go, you know, run well.

Well, I mean, honestly, if you use that example, though, I mean, like, he sold his company, Alex, So everyone who had equity in the company got money. Do you see what I'm saying? So, like, it's not like there was.

Also a carve out. There was also a carve out for like, the small coaching staff. Right.

I think everyone who worked at Scale ended up doing pretty well. Like, I, I do.

But there was a better carve out for like, the elite team that moved over to Meta.

I, I don't know what that was, but I mean that. I think that everyone who worked at Scale did pretty well.

You know, I still come back to if I were like, on that team. And you've been, you've had this great season. The college football rankings just came out. You're in it. You're in the thick of it. You have a chance here to finish this thing off. As hurt feelings as there are, as emotional as people are, like, to, to give yourself the best chance to win, the entire thing would have been to let him coach. And I also think it's the right thing.

Right.

It was the right thing for the players.

To do that. And I think hurt feelings at the top, like, ruined this whole thing.

I think he gave up his right to coach the team when he chose.

I agree with that. I also have the right.

He gave it up.

No, no, I, I agree with you that the, the right.

Yeah.

And obviously he's not entitled to it once he becomes the LSU head coach. I just think that the powers at Ole Miss completely botched this. They were emotional.

Here's one thing I would tell you. So I, I think I, I hear what you're saying. I think I, I agree with Shane. I actually don't think he gives them the best chance to win because of the loss of trust with the players. Now is my honest assessment. I think that they're, like, not. I don't think they circle the wagons for him, you know? No, Alex, to be fair, I do have some humility in my point of view here for the simple fact of, like, you actually played football for a living and you ostensibly know better what the value is of a coach than I do. And you also know what it, you know what I'm saying? So like, put it this way, I certainly feel it a lot less now than I did hearing you argue about it. Because like, genuinely, like, you know, this is theoretical for me and you know, there's a lot more practice in your logic. So like, you know, I, I, I am open minded that I'm wrong here.

Let's say Lane Kiffin is back coaching Ole Miss. Do you think he is following his regular schedule of film on Monday, you know, walk through on Tuesday, game plan on Wednesday or do you think he would be distracted by putting his staff together?

You know, he's horrible because he, because.

This the time, this is why he's going. He has to go now. The portal's going now. And so the point is like, can he maintain what Lane Kiffin does and makes him great in a situation where he's trying to do basically two jobs at once.

You can't do it. So like, like maybe it's as simple as that. He can't do two jobs at once.

Great question. I think that's a, I think it's a great point. I actually also like, if they were playing next week, I think that's a fair argument. They're not playing next week. Their season's done, right. Like they're going to play and it's bull prep now. You've got a month, right? Like, and then you've got a few weeks after that if you win it. Like it's, we are not in a week to week scenario. And then I think the question is, would he have more on his plate? Of course, of course he would. I still think he's better. And I, and this is why I, and I think you brought up a great point, like to use the three major sports of baseball, basketball, football in this, right? Like let's say this were baseball, like, no, get lost. Like what is no offense to baseball managers but like we can make the lineup.

Yeah, I got you, I got you.

That's why like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, like Alex Smith.

And to your.

Point on basketball, right, like, and I think it's a next step. Like there's game planning and you know, and strategy. I'm not saying there's not, but like to your point, like five guys playing hard, we know we're gonna run pick and roll, we're gonna run these plays that we've been running all year. Like football is not that way. Yeah, yeah it is, it is very game plan specific. I think coaches have such a Large impact, especially.

Every facet, like the specific matchup of who you're playing. Like whoever they draw in the playoff. And to have three weeks to game plan for it. And like, what are their weaknesses?

How do coaches become so profit. How do coaches become so proficient in that game plan?

Well, there's, but this is my point. There's only what do you do Population that are proficient. Like, and that's why he's so sought after.

I know, but like, what does he do specifically to have the best calls, the best offense? Is it film study? Is it is he sits up and like, what makes him great?

The film study. So like, you like, obviously his pedigree, right? Like this guy's been coaching his entire life. His dad is a hall of fame.

How many hours, how many hours a week do you think he puts in a film study to. To be one of the top play callers? How many? Like 20.

Oh, at least of watching film. At least more, you know, like.

Lots of film. It is the number one thing he does. Number one thing he does watching films.

So this is the point. If he needs 30 hours to become proficient for one single game and he has to fly around the country, visit recruits, tackle a transfer portal, right. Raise money from alumni, establish those relationships, there's no way he's going to be 100% Lane Kiffin. No way. And so I push back on your assessment that, you know, a 50% lane Kiffin is better than a.

No.

0% lane Kiffin. You know, a 50% lane KIFFIN without the team's trust is not better than a 0% Lane Kiffin. No way.

I disagree. I don't think you'd be 50%. I agree.

I can't wait to completely disagree. I like, you want him there. He is. There aren't. Look how sought after he is. He's.

But he won't be there. He's like 50%. He's 50 of what he can be like.

And I know again, Charlie Weiss juniors is doing it, but like, do you think that the rest of that staff that like all those, the leftovers are just, they're just going to magically get it done. Hey, hey, we're just going to run. We're going to xerox the game plan from our last game and we're just going to run it again like that? That's just not how it works.

They at least they have four full capability to game plan. They're not trying to recruit and raise money.

Well, hey, Alex, let me ask you a question. One, I think the Xerox reference is pretty great, given that's, like, in line with your Hotmail account. Like, bro, like, nobody uses a Xerox machine anymore.

Shane's got a Lou Pinella reference on the podcast. I mean, we are really, you know, dating ourselves here. Alex, let me, let me, let me ask you a different question, okay? Do you think if you think about your own, like, career, any of this, and we're not judging Wayne Kiffin, we don't know what's in his heart, any of that stuff. Dude, like, do you think that. I guess I kind of think that you should, like, aspire to be part of tribes in your life and in your career. I think it's, like, fun. I think that there's more value in it. I think it's. I think there's actual, like, real long term joy that comes from that versus just purely.

I think this feels more mercenary, you know, than missionary, this kind of thing. And so I think the interesting thing that as I hear this whole conversation is like, you're basically making the argument right now of like, they should have the mercenary coach, right, for the national championship. Because for the rest of the run, right? Which is like, look, this guy, you don't trust him. You. Because, you know, he's just going to do what's best for him. But for this thing, he's. He's the hired gun. You should put him in. He's the guy.

Right?

Okay.

But is that really, like, is that unique to the one game or is it forever? Like, what, what do you, where do you think you pick the mercenary versus the missionary? Because I think the thing that my takeaway on the Lane Kiffin situation is actually more. I think more of the pieces I find interesting are sort of like, this guy has consistently been like, chasing something, right? And, you know, he's gonna look back at the end and he's never gonna have found it because, like, he's. He's never gonna allow himself to be part of a tribe because he's already chasing something else.

You know, I mean.

A few things there.

Remember the podcast.

Listen, they are not playing, by the way, they are not playing LSU in their next game, right? They're not. Again, they're going to be one of the 12 teams in the College Football Playoff that get to chase a national championship. And I think that goal to finish off the year is bigger. And I absolutely think Lane Kiffin gives them the best chance of success. I think.

Anybody saying, like, it just. It's crazy to say otherwise. He gives them the best chance they have several weeks to prepare. Like it. That's a fact.

I say this also. I, I lived this. Like again, I want to reference this like after my last regular season game, we went undefeated. It was the bcs. We were the first non school to get into bcs. We broke the system. We're a little mountain west school. Right. We go to the Fiesta Bowl. One of like the darlings of the bowl system. Urban had already left to Florida. He'd already was already recruiting Tim Tebow. Okay. And he coached us in the bowl game. Right. Dan Mullen was our offensive coordinator. Guess where he was the OC the next year at Florida. He gave it absolutely gave us the best chance to finish the thing. Right. Which was not embarrass ourselves on the national scene. And we mopped up pit in the Fiesta bowl. Like I wish we would have had a chance. And he a thousand percent gave us the best chance. It is doable. And again, I want to reference this like to, to the tribalism point and again, especially these shared experiences and like the bonds that you create.

Like he's going into the College Football hall of Fame. I will be there. Right? Like I'm speaking like, you know, I'm like, like what are we talking about? I'm still incredibly close with Irvin. I have been because of what we went through together. And him leaving to go to Florida did not change that one iota.

I'm not gonna disagree with your, your life experience, Alex. I think time's a little bit different. Okay. There was no portal back then and just the mass media and the, you know, basically there would be. Marty Smith from ESPN would be camped out at every packed practice at Ole Miss. And the only question that these kids would be asked, are you going to LSU month? Yeah, for the next month. Not next week, next month was, you know, how do you feel about Lane Kiffin? You know, how do you feel about your team, you know, and that you didn't have the distractions that they had to deal with now I think this.

Is a less of a distraction what they've created.

No, I said this is more of you live in an area era of less distraction, less media. Yeah. Like I, I don't like you told me that story. I don't remember Urban Meyer like going to Florida and still coaching the game, no offense, you know, like I remember.

Believe me, totally get it. Yes.

But I'm not a person that wouldn't that it's such newsworthy, you know, fodder that the distraction would be just untenable for.

Do you think the distraction though, Shane, do you think the distraction is less by what they did? Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like not allowing him to coach, I think created a bigger like nips it in the like. I think they fell victim to the media. The media wanted this, the media egged this on and they like, they like again, they just got goaded into this.

I think it's like a. Yeah, I think a lot of times when people disagree, it's sort of like how much do you know about the topic? Remember Halligan? We had Brian Halligan. When he and his co founder would disagree, they would rate two things in terms of like how they decided about it. Like how much do you know about this and how much do you care about it? Do you see what I'm saying in terms of like when, like how to decide? And so I do think one thing that I am like, again, like paying attention to is like, you definitely know a lot more about this than I do.

Right.

And so I got to take that into account. And then on the caring, like I don't know, I don't know how much you care about this topic versus I do in terms of like agreeing. But I will tell you, I've like moved a little bit based on your like football scheming and like the delta between Lane and like the alternative on the scheming. I gotta ask you though, do you think there's any element of the trust point that Shane and I have made that is true on like the players just won't trust him, you know, and they won't like fight and circle the wagons like I. On the scheme point. I'm there. Okay. Obviously you are correct. And let's even take the timing point out of like how much time you can put into the scheme on like the trust point though, do you think there's any impact implication for them on that?

So from what I Let me. Let me. From what I understand, again, I'm not like an expert on the college landscape, but I, I definitely follow it and, and talk to a lot of people. The reason why the LSU job is so much of a better job, right? Like a significant step forward that he would take it is that when you look at how Lane has had to build his roster over the last six, six years is that it's almost predominantly been through the transfer portal, right? Like he's had to rely on the transfer portal so heavily because he can't compete with schools like LSU and Ohio State for the best high school kids. So you cannot build A program from the ground up. And so that every year you're reliant on the transfer portal, right, to like get kids from Ferris State to come in and play. And so that the vast majority of this team.

Right, they didn't, they didn't commit here at high school. They've played for other schools, sometimes multiple schools. And so their view of this loyalty is different. Right? And again, this was a chance for them to elevate themselves, right? And Lane was the biggest factor in determining them going there. Does that make sense? Like they, they, he, he sold them something. They, they said yes to it, whether it be a financial contract or a vision or both. And now they've won 11 games under him. And this is. I've been a magical ride, right? And they have a chance to finish it and they very well, the vast majority of those kids that already transferred once or twice were probably going to transfer again. And that LSU changes things again. Why it is a better job is that lsu, you can build it from the ground up, that you can get the absolute top 1% of kids in the country and compete and you can recruit coast to coast.

And that, that is different. Right? And so like, and therefore again, like the nature of these tribes is different, right?

Like to that point, like, yeah, that's the point.

The, the tribe mentality for Ole Miss like in. And I'm saying this, that the mentality of that tribe in the locker room is different than the tribe of, of Ole Miss alumni that haven't changed yet. And so like the Ole Miss alumni that are still subscribing to this old fashioned way and are so hardcore, right, like anti any of these other rivals in their conference, like, isn't what's happened in the lock. The locker room's different.

Yeah. By the way, like again like that is, that is a coherent point to me of like, hey, you Ravi, are applying an old standard of what it means to be on a college football team versus what it means now to be on a high level college football team and a different expectation of the coach and all that. I think, let me submit one more thought for you though on that, which is if that's true, why the fuck does the national championship even matter at all? Because if the point is like, look man, I'm here to get mine. I'm here to get here and use this school to get to the next school. I'm here to get as many stats as possible. Because basically the point you're making is like, I'm trying to get to the highest level football I can get. And all this is. Is a stepping stone to the next thing. And Lane told me that I'm going to get it here, then who gives a shit? They should actually sit out the bowl game. Realistically, like, if they've already gotten all the stuff they're going to get. And it's not about the cohesion. It's not about together. It's not even about the winning. It's just about getting to the next school. Shouldn't they all just sit out the bowl game anyway? Because I feel like you're kind of saying, like, no, but it's a magical run. It's the best team in Ole Miss history. Who gives a fuck? Because they don't care about Ole Miss. They don't care about that. You know, it's.

Well, it's both, hopefully. But, like, why do you watch professional sports then?

So.

So, honestly, why do you watch any.

Professional Talk about this situation?

Yeah, but. And I'll tell you why I watch professional sports. I will tell you in my heart, okay? I in my heart believe that professional athletes, you guys tell me, right, have this idea of, like, they're gonna play so hard. They're going to go so hard to win a championship, right? Because it earns them the respect of their peers, right? And it's something that they, like, dreamed of when they were kids. That's what I think. I think that, like, there is something about the ring to professional athletes that allows you to see the highest level of play and the highest level of emotion and the highest level of, like, human competition and achievement that exists, right? College football is not the highest level of human performance and achievement. It's a junior league to the NFL, right? It's not the highest number.

Oh, I might say something here that pissed you. I might say something here that pisses you guys both off. You. You love the NBA, Ravi. The league of load management, the league of all these regular season games.

Don't play off.

Don't mean why. Why did you go to the regular season game last night? Like, why? How many starters were not playing like that? Like, that perplexes me. Like, again, like, to the point.

You were at the game, too, bro.

I love it. I. I'm not the one complaining about this. I think the kids at lsu, I think you can. I think the two things of winning, right, lifts all ships, right? Like, winning the tide lifts all ships. Like, and you having the best chance of success. Like, again, if I'm the quarterback, I want Lane there because he gives me, personally the best chance of success. And guess what? If I play well, the team's gonna got a better chance. It's like those things are all aligned, right? Like that, that none of that's different. And no different on the professional sports that like, yeah, I want to win, but I want my money too. Like that, that is pro sports. Like I love Jordan and Steph Curry and LeBron, but like, guess what? These guys, when it comes time to negotiate, they can negotiate hard and they get what they're doing.

Alex, you think the defense thinks your quarterbacks, you're biased. You have a different relationship with a head coach. You think the defense would love to see link back.

Great point.

Because we know defensive rooms are a little different than offensive rank. If it walks into a defensive meeting, what sort of language would be used in that meeting?

Great point. No, they definitely might have the birds up, right? Like they might, but they might both.

Just be like, because trust has been.

Lost, he doesn't affect their job. He does not affect their job as much. Right? Like if you're a D tackle and this is to your point, I play D tackle. I live in my world where I just kick the guard's ass, right? And that is a man to man thing. And coaches don't really affect my, my little world. Like that's one thing again, when you're the QB and it's 11 on 11 and man, you got the ball in your hands. I'm telling you, you want Lane there. Let's not forget this guy is the youngest NFL head coach of all time. Like this guy has been a phenom like his entire life. I know he's jumped ships. I know he's got a lot of stuff in his personal life that are like over the years, like all of.

That, he's won anything at any level.

Like, just stop.

From an offensive mind standpoint, is, is potential. Is. Is what it is, right? Show me the rings, show me the money.

Don't.

He's 50 years old.

Who's got potential at 50 years old?

He just won 11 games at Ole Miss. This is, this team won 11 games in the history of the school, okay? The Archie Manning, Eli Manning, none of them have won 11 games, right?

Like if, if this were four years ago, they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Okay? So we live in an era where there's 16 teams in play, whatever the playoffs now, 12 team. So like what are we talking about here?

Talking about? I, I do, I do. Man, I hope 1. I got duped of the rumor that Eli was going to be the coach. I Got duped by that rumor, you know, online. I sent it to Alex. I'm like, yo, is Eli going to coach Ole Miss? And so he had a tweet the other day of, like, I learned after that, they asked me that I'd have to go onto the field. And I realized at that point I wasn't going to do it. So I got. I got duped by the Eli story. I don't know. Alex, I will tell you. I think that Baddie and I might have to have a special meeting without you of, like, your. Your love for the mercenaries and whether this compromises your glue guy status. You know, I mean, I don't know that you're.

So I gotta ask you, right? I really. Look, I. Do you think that all NBA players play for the love of the game? Do you think that, like, maybe some of your idols play for the love of the game? Solely?

No, I. What I think. But I do not think that they play for the love of the game. I think that when you get to playoff football and basketball in the.

Professional ranks, I think that the level of competition is the best that you get to see because people really want it, because they really want to win. It's not just about the money when it comes to the playoffs. That's what I believe. I am watching.

Right.

And I think that the point that. That you're making on college football, specifically, all I was making the point was. And I really think I'm trying to be like. I think I'm trying to be balanced here, which is like, on the. Like, will he scheme better than the alternative. I. I go to you. You're right. Obviously. You know, also, will.

Will they. Is. Am I using an outdated view of college football? Yes, I believe you that I'm using an outdated view.

Cool.

All I'm pointing out is you using words like magical run. Best team in Ole Miss history. Let them finish the job. All I'm saying is, what you're telling me is that their job is actually not to win a national championship. Their job is to get to the best school possible to help them get to the NFL. Like, it's actually not. The primary thing is to win. The primary thing is to, like, you know what I'm saying, go to where they need to go. And all I'm saying is the rational argument then for them is, yo, Lane, can I come with you to lsu? If so, I'll sit the bowl game out, you know, because it doesn't matter if they win or not. And that's all I was pointing out is I think there's an inconsistency there because you're using the romance of it in one regard, but like removing all.

The romance, I think they're not.

Before your answer, I only have one more thing to say. You know, I have never spent one second in a football locker room. All right. But I have sat in multiple championship winning locker rooms. And so I do know what that dynamic is. And the only way to win that. And I've been on both sides. I've lost match, I've lost championships, and I've won championships. The thing that is most consistent is the level of trust from everybody who steps foot on that battlefield, on that bus, in that locker room, that we are all rowing the same way. And then if something goes down, we have each other's backs. And that is the only recipe for success. And you cannot get around it no matter how good your scheme or strategy is. That's the most human element that makes us all successful on teams.

Totally valid. And I agree. I don't think these things are mutually exclusive for both of you guys like that, like, like Ravi, I don't think again, a kid who thinks about his personal success and where he's going in his trajectory and also the team winning are mutually exclusive, right? And again, the playoffs, you just said it. The playoffs are the greatest thing there is, right? Like the NFL is the most popular sport in this country. The playoffs are amazing. NBA playoff basketball, a thou, like it's unbelievable. I want the College Football Playoff, which again is even better because they expanded the 12 best teams. It's gotten even better, right? It College football again, the second most popular sport in the country. It's double the size of the NBA from a viewership standpoint. And they have a chance to finish this run. This is what I'm talking about, Ravi. Like they have a chance to actually be in the fucking playoff and maybe hoist the trophy. And they're self sabotaging. Like I think like you're making the argument like why wouldn't they put like their emotions aside, their hurt feelings and like have a chance at the bigger picture, the glory. When, when is the last time Ole Miss ever had a chance to like I had to be in the national championship conversation.

Like, oh, I hear you. I'm not historian.

Maybe way back in the day, I don't know.

I, I hear you. I, I, I feel looks, I, like I said, I'm very open minded to being wrong here. I, I, I still kind of think, you know, brother Badier's points of view on sort of like the togetherness of a team and all that still matters. I think you're doing math right now. I don't think you're taking into account any of the team stuff. You know, I lived it.

What do you mean? I, like, I had a head coach who was going to a bigger school coach us, right?

Yeah, but you kind of flared your nostrils when we said, what if he went to byu? You know, like, it's not the same as Florida.

Well, that's harder to understand. So listen, and this is my point. That's harder to understand for me because it's like a very lateral move.

And I know, I know the athletic director of Ole Miss thinks this is lateral, and I know the alumni of Ole Miss think this is lateral. I can assure you the kids in the locker room don't view this as lateral.

Some of them probably, so that trust.

The trust isn't as broken. The kids in the locker room do not view this as a lateral. They, they, they. They aren't blinded by their love of hottie toddy or whatever they say down there, right? Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's.

Shane. Alex is not gonna be able to come to the next podcast that we have with, right? He's not gonna be invited.

We should have right on to talk about this.

We should have Wright on to talk about this. I would love to hear what Wright here thinks about this. In fact, I would love to hear what Wright thinks about this so much that I would do anything for us to have Wright on. So, Wright, if you're listening, you know, you. You're invited, you know, to come back and talk about this with brother Smith, talk some sense into.