(Un)Common Sense - [Glue Guys, EP.14]

The first thing would be you have to get people to the mindset of, like, there are no shortcuts. There's no shortcut, there's no hack. There's no way to, like, you know, short the system here and get it done quicker. Like, it will be exhausting. It will be every day. Like, one of my favorite expressions of yours is everyday courage. I think this one idea of, like, set the expectation that being a leader or being a teammate is exhausting. Of, like, it's going to be consistent compounding every day. There's no shortcut. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to Glue Guys. We're your hosts, Shane Battier, Ravi Gupta, and Alex Smith.

And we're bringing you behind the scenes of the locker rooms, the boardrooms, and the living rooms that taught us everything we know about what it takes to be great leaders and even better teammates and friends.

We hope the conversation helps you bring more ambition and. And more joy to your own work life and relationships. It certainly has for us.

Why don't you tell the people about our talk this week, Ravi? Set it up, Set the stage. Glue Guys on the road. Glue Guys on the road.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. We're taking this worldwide to Alex's hometown. We were in Carlsbad, California. I know that's not where you're from, Alex, but we did fly to San Diego.

I'm a South Bay kid that's like, you know, the north county is like the, The. The hoity toity silver spooners. Like, I grew up in this. I grew up in Chula Vista, man. You know?

Yeah, I know, I know. Just, what, five miles from Tijuana?

Not Carlsbad.

Yeah. Okay, well, I will tell you that our trip there did not support the idea that you came from the mean streets. Okay. It was not obvious that San Diego was full of mean streets to the point where actually when Shane. Shane was saying when we were there, he was like, this place is too nice. Like, I think it would make you soft. Like, right. Remember you were just saying, like, what was the word you said it would melt your brain.

Melt your brain. It was so nice. It was such a nice, perfect November day.

Didn't remind you of Detroit?

No, no, no. Actually, the quite opposite of Detroit, where the sun goes away in October, you don't see it again until May, and you are just, you know, grinding, grinding. You know, you wake up, it's dark. You come home from school, it's dark. All right. No, this is the opposite of what I grew up in. Michigan.

Same thing in the Midwest. Alex In Chicago, you wouldn't understand. You know, I didn't know that you.

Had to, like, check weather growing up for, like, what to wear. Like, I didn't know that that was a thing. Honestly, this sounds pathetic, but, like, just. What are you wearing today? Shorts. You know, what are you talking about?

Anyway, we're going to go, okay? We're going to get to it. Shane was asked to give a talk at Morgan Stanley. I think it was a few hundred folks that are there. And, you know, Shane crushed it. And I was asked to also join him. And so the two of us went and. But, but. But Shane was the star of this show. Okay? And apparently, by the way, in years past, like, the. The speaker slot that Shane took over was, like, held by, like, George W. Bush and people at that level, which. Well, I was pretty impressed that they asked Brother Badier to. To close him out. But anyway, so the reason to set it up we were there was Shane was going to drop the teamwork lessons and to drop how to be a great teammate, how to be a great leader, all the stories from his life. But what had happened was one of our fans, one of our great friends, Victoria Bailey, works for Morgan Stanley, and she had heard some of our podcasts and was sort of like, hey, these messages would be great for our team. So anyway, she's saying that's the setup. I think now you should talk about, you know, some of the observations and reactions that we got afterwards.

Well, it's always super interesting when. When we talk to people about glue guys. And the theme that keeps coming up over and over again is like, you guys aren't talking about very complicated things, but makes total sense. And it's so applicable across, you know, my business, my family. And that's one of the points that Robin I made, whether it was Ruby talking about, you know, battling Bez, Amazon bought Whole Foods, or whether it's me dealing with playing with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh. And in this world, I feel that there's so much sophistication with technology. And I think that for the most part, people think that the answer to so many problems and questions are something that is just so crazy that they can't wrap their head around to come up with it. Right? And so it's funny to talk about just kind of what I call fortune cookie wisdom that is just common sense and trying to do the right thing when the time calls for just doing the right thing, how effective that is. And so, you know, we had a great talk in San Diego it was extension of Blue Guys, really. It was. It was extension of this podcast, Riverdash, busting each other's balls and telling life wisdom. But the amount of feedback from really, really successful smart people, it's really astounding. It's really astounding. And you just. When we do this podcast, I don't know about you guys, but there's been so many times where people come up to me and just said, oh, you know, I love that story about Alex and just, you know, dealing with, you know, Patrick Mahomes and, like, for Alex, I'm sure it's like a throwaway story, right? I mean, you told that story hundreds of times and, you know, the interaction of a guy who's going to replace you. And like, yeah, we understood this. It's part of the gig. It's neither good nor bad. It's just what it is, and you make the most of it. But, like, it's those little moments in all of our journeys that when put in a different framework, in a different context, it unlocks something, a thought or an emotion in someone else's life. And that. That's the cool part about what we do and what we try to do every. Every week when we record here. And so just a really. A really cool, you know, moment with. With Ravi, obviously, on stage. But to. To know that, look, we're all in this. This crazy journey together, and you just never know, you know, how to optimize all the time. And sometimes it's the simplest answer. Right?

Yeah. I mean, Alex. So the thing. I'll tell you. So there's a couple of things that came up that I think made me think of the clips you sent that you should talk about too. But. So one thing was Shane mentioned just sort of like a lot of the reason that he could be a great teammate was he trusted it would come back, right? You know, he would do the little things. He would go and box out the best player on the other team. He would go and run back on defense. He would do a bunch of stuff that doesn't show up in the stat sheet, but ultimately there's trust in there of, like, the. I will get rewarded either through wins or somebody will notice and I'll get taken. If I do the right things, I'll. It'll get taken care of. And that was like, a big message here, which was like, even if it doesn't show up directly, you know, tomorrow in something you think the bosses will recognize, right? Just, like, do the right thing. Just. Just do the little things. Be that teammate trust that it'll come back. And I think that that was like one point and then there was a bunch of stuff like that that came up and afterwards what was happening was when people would come up to us and you know, of course mainly to shame, but then would come up to us and be like, man, that was so great. Wow, I learned a lot. And then like as they were saying it, they're like, and honestly, like, man, like the stuff you're saying is stuff I already know. Right, I know that. But it just was helpful to hear somebody else say it, you know, and to know that it works. Right. It's almost like they realize themselves. Not like, man, I should have known this, this is stuff I tell my kids anyway. But it really, it kind of, it was very interesting to me how it wasn't that the insight was revelatory. It was that he consistently applied it or we try to consistently apply it. And that was the lesson.

Yeah, totally. And I, and I love like what you brought up kind of the little things and doing the right things. And I think oftentimes you can tell me if you're wrong. Shane. I think when you're doing them in those environments, it's because they're celebrated too, right? Like within the building. Great leaders celebrate and put value on the little things done. Right. Right. So like you boxing out and you, you know, the moving and keeping the ball flowing, I think those are things that don't get viewed by the outside world like the media or the average fan watching. But then again, in the right places, like they are celebrated, right? Like within the building, the co, they don't go unnoticed and you feel valued by good leaders.

I would say.

No, that's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. I, I totally agree. Only by the good leaders.

I've had great hall of Fame coaches and poor coaches, not, not many poor coaches. But it is that attention to that detail, they get celebrated a hundred percent.

Like, that's exactly what I was trying to say is that the, the good leaders, it isn't some crazy secret. Like it, it is they, they do value these little things done the right way. And this leads me to this story kind of about value that I like sent you guys because it, I had totally forgotten it. It's a great Harbaughism. But this kid, he's a second year player for the Chargers, okay. For the LA Chargers. Now my, you know, my former childhood team, anyways, names, his name is Dayon Henley, okay. And he, they just Had a huge win this last Sunday. They beat the Bengals, the Chargers, for everybody out there in this, before the season started, like this was a, a huge rebuild. Like they were not expected to be good this year. They were the, they were in the worst shape from a caps salary cap standpoint. They shipped off all their best players like this was like a massive rebuild. Not expected to be very good this season. And all of a sudden they're, they're the fifth best team in the the AFC right now and just beat the Bengals on national tv. It was this, you know, huge win and they certainly. Harbaugh seems to have turned this team around much faster than expected. And this kid is a second year player and he says he, he sends a tweet out after the game, all right. And it caught all this attention because it says this is. The tweet went from no happy birthday to endless Happy birthday. I love Bolt fam. Always had my back. And so it got drug up that he's. He's mentioning his birthday. By the way, he turned. The day before the game, he turned 25.

Okay.

And come to find out. And he shared it. He got this, he got this message from Jim Harbaugh. A happy birthday message. Right. And I'll read it out there. Hopefully we can get the clip of it. It's Happy birthday, Dion. Congrats on punching your ticket to take another trip around the sun. Happy birthday. Make it a great day, a great week, a great month, a great year. Also, keep attacking each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Nobody does it better. Bolt up. Enjoy, Jim.

Okay.

Very simple thing. This is like such a little thing. And this come to find out, I had no idea that this goes back to last season, okay. When Jim was not the coach, their head coach was named Brandon Staley. And it was a complete. Turned into a complete mess. They were supposed to be a playoff team. The season just absolutely went haywire. He lost his job. Well, part of this problem that he's referencing is that Brandon Staley apparently would only acknowledge the birthdays of like the important people, right? Like, so he would, he would tell people happy birthday, like if you were a starter or like a contributor. And so Dayon was a rookie and literally on his birthday, like at the end of the day, like when the whole team was around that Brennan Staley said happy birthday to somebody else, okay. On the team, like this guard had a birthday and that the rest of the team said, oh, hey, it's Dayon's birthday too. And I guess he like replied, he said, oh, And Dayon too, in like a very dismissive way, I guess. So listen, this is, we're talking about a happy birthday message. And this kid who by the way plays, he's the starting inside linebacker for the Chargers in the NFL, like you don't get that. You're tough ass, dude. You play middle linebacker in the NFL, you are freaking tough. You just, you just had this great win. And, and for this kid, right, he, he believes that what is the difference is this happy birthday message. And what tore up the team last year was this divisiveness of, of Brandon Staley. And it was quote, unquote, like a frat light. Like, I only said happy birthday to the guys that were in the frat, the important guys, the starters. And I didn't say happy birthday and value these other people that contribute in different ways and this year. And by the way, so this makes me, brings me back to Jim because I completely forgot it. I never received a text message from Jim. But Jim is a birthday crazy guy, right? So when you have your birthday and he all year long, 12 months, like again, every single day he comes in and it could be in April, no games, and you're doing like weight training, he comes down and he's going to announce the birthdays that day to the entire team. And he would always have this deal about another trip around the sun. And he would be, this is, this is going to sound a little bizarre. He would have it down to the day. He'd say, Alex, happy 28th birthday. You've been on this earth 10,334 days. I'm making that up. If he would have it down to the leap year, okay? And he'd say, listen, only 30 of them have been a birthday. Like, think about that. And I want to wish you a happy birthday. And it was like very totally my own parents. Like, I had never even heard that. Like you've been alive this many days, you know, like it just was. And this is such a small dumb shit thing. And but Jim did it every day after practice. He called the team up and you could be, you could be the trainer in, you know, the mule guy getting coffee. You could be the gopher quality control guy. Or like, again, it didn't matter who you were. Like the janitor. He was going to have the birthday acknowledgement for everybody. And he put value on everybody. And again, like, right, like this is just such a simple thing to do.

And it's the right thing to do.

And here's this kid that again, I just found it Amazing that like on the heels of this big win and even got asked about it, it's like, what's the difference? Well, it's. I get a birthday message from my coach. You know, I'm saying like I feel valued and everybody feels valued versus not. And like I, I just find this like, again, we're talking about the toughest dudes on the planet and this guy, is it a middle linebacker. And you know, one year he didn't get any birthday wishes and the next year he does. And for him this was significant. Like he's seen, he's seen he's valued and I just found it. I find it fascinating.

Uncommon sense, right? I mean, so I have, I have two thing. Three things that came to mind when you said that. Okay. One is, can you imagine Shane as like part of his corporate. Speaking of like, hey, I got a big insight for you guys. Wish your people happy birthday, right? With like, it works like actually care, you know, pay attention. Two, apparently Sheryl Sandberg used to have by the future glue guys guest. Okay. But she used to apparently like have balloons for people when it was their birthday. And then Facebook got so big that at some point, I guess I read sometimes she had like a sheet cake, you know, that would be like everybody's birthday, you know, that was coming up in like the few day period or whatever. It's the same thing. And so whenever we have her, we should ask her about like the Harbaugh thing there. And then the third thing is I just thought of this connection and I think it's true. I think Carl Eschenbach, the CEO of Workday is the Jim Harbaugh of like CEOs. Okay? And I'll tell you why. I'm just like reading that text that Dayon got, you know. Okay, this is a text from Carl to me. Okay. Hello, my friend. It was great spending time with you this evening. I'm so proud of you and extremely excited for you and your family. Remember, my friend, to always keep it real, stay grounded and always remember that all of this stuff is very surface level. Your family and your friends and your face are not. They will be with you forever. All the best. And always stay in touch. Now like that message like nobody else sends messages like that, right? And that was like we had dinner together and he just every time follow up and like messages like that, like, you know, you're my guy and. And it works. And I bet you that to whoever he like cares about. I'm not the only person that gets messages like that. But they every Time. It makes me smile every time. I know he cares about me and he just kind of like, while he's driving, he'll just, like, do the voice message. I can tell that they're like. They're like the voice message when he's driving. And they work. You know, it's the same thing as this message that Harbaugh sends to Deon, for sure.

Well, and you guys, for everybody out there, these guys love to give me crap about the Harbaugh and the Crushes. We had this whole long thing, like, Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, you know, if you've. If you've watched football at all, he. He absolutely loves Justin Herbert, the quarterback for the Chargers.

There's very little I can do for Justin Herbert. I mean, he is. He's like nobody.

He's one of the best of all time.

You know, already. He's already breaking these records that prove that and show that.

And by the way, I was down there. I've been around this guy. Like, I get why, right? Like, this guy is a freak of nature, and he's like a super solid kid. He's really driven anyway, that he's. He's had all these kind of, you know, man crushes, QB crushes, right? Like, you think he called JJ McCarthy the greatest college quarterback, the greatest Michigan quarterback ever, kind of. In spite of.

Before you continue, Shane, do you think you should tell people what. The messages that you sent to Alex about Harbaugh's man crushes, just to, like, set the stage for why. Why we were talking about this.

I just thought that, you know, I was checking on Alex because one of. The. One of the tweets we read were about the latest Jim Harbaugh man crush. And I'm sure at some point he said the same thing about our fellow glue guy, Alex Smith. And I just wanted to check on him, make sure he didn't feel like a. A scorned. A scorned lover. And so. But given this context, like, it makes sense. I get it. He's just trying to.

He's trying to.

Trying to raise his people up. So for sure. No, no, no judgment. No judgment.

To my point, like, you mentioned it, and I actually. I actually, like, looked it up and you could go back and find, like, he. Colin Kaepernick, like, he called him, like, the greatest thing ever. Like, such a competitor before that, like, even with me. Same thing with Andrew Luck. Like, this guy builds people up and it sounds so funny. And I even talked to him about it. I got to go down to Their practice, you know, a few weeks ago when I interviewed him. And, and I think he has a great acknowledgment that like, at the, at the highest level, like, oftentimes the guys can be the most beat up and like, mentally, right, because everybody's good and the expectations are so high. And he, like, this is purposeful, right? Like, he really does make you feel amazing about yourself. And again, like such a small thing, but like going out on the field and like you, you do, like, he genuinely believes it, like what he does and like his philosophy, right? Like just like the Carl text. Like he, you know what I'm saying? Like when he speaks to the media, like he, he just speaks so glowingly and tough and about all his, all his people, but especially his quarterbacks.

But, but it's authentic. And that's the other piece of it, right? Like, you can't just go out there and, and give out false plaudits and say sweet nothings. You know, like, that is what you think of when you think of a politician, you know, every four years and, and they're on the campaign trail. Oh, you know, I, I love California. I love all these people, but no one really believes it. You just want my vote. So authentic feedback and authentic love, it's so rare. And the reason why I think this is tough is because it's exhausting. It's exhausting. Most people are so busy. We have deadlines, we have emails, we have Uber and the kids around all these things, we dismiss that that person's fine. They don't need to hear how great they are. Right? And so you just kind of take it for granted and to constantly pump up your, your people, especially as a leader. That's your job. That is your job.

Shane, you're so right. The thing that it's interesting is. It's interesting though, because I think that sometimes I think people don't do it also because they're like, worried, well, what if my mind changes? What. What if, what if I don't. What if I don't think that anymore? And I actually think that one of the things Harbaugh does and I think one of the things some of these other leaders. Great.

Do.

Great leaders do is they're either they're all in until they're all out. You know, it's like if you're here, you are my person. Like, I'm going to build you, I'm going to make it work, right? And if you're not fine, like, then they deal with it, right? But they don't hedge it in the short term and I think that's like a really powerful thing. And then the other thing that I think really good people, honestly, great teammates do too, is like they make people believe in themselves, right? And Alex, what you just said about like he makes the quarterback feel amazing, well, that's really powerful because the difference between somebody being mediocre and being really good might be like their own level of self belief. So it's actually like really important for the performance. But I think that, you know, he seems to get that, like, look, I want to see how good this person can be when they believe in themselves, right? I don't want to get the version of them that's all angsty. I want the version of them that's like, no, you're a baller. Let's see what you can do now.

And just as much of it right as like, hey, having a great strategic plan, right? Like from an offense perspective, like just as much of it's that as it is, right? Like this guy should be confident and feeling good about himself. Like they're equally as important. Two other things, they're like such little things. And again, to go to like the uncommon sense that he does that I completely forgot about when I was down there, he asked me to say wise words. And so why he calls it wise words. And Shane, you get a kick out of this every single day after practice that you do a cool down. So the whole team will do like this cool down. And then you actually do a post practice stretch and he'll walk around and he walks up to somebody and everybody has a turn on this again. And it's coaches and players and trainers and like everybody that falls in the building, he'll come up to you and he'd be like, hey, hey, Ravi, you got wise words today, right? Like he'll just give you like a five minute heads up. So then when he calls the team up after the cooldown and everybody's around, he'll say his thoughts and then he'll say, hey, Ravi's got wise words today. And it literally, there's no prompt and it's just say what's on your heart. Okay? Like that's it. It could be 30 seconds, it could be 10 minutes. You just say what's on your heart. It could have to do with something you personally or your thoughts on the team. And I think there's this really cool idea that you feel valued. Again, you usually only hear from the leaders, right? Or like the quote unquote leaders. And again, it's the same, like, five guys on a team that just talk and you run.

You.

Honestly, you run out of shit to say. Like, you know, like, I. You're like, God, I've got to. You know, and there's. But, like, it's really nice, again, for the people that maybe aren't the quarterback or, you know, these, like, the guys that walk out for the coin toss to have a moment in front of the whole team. And, like, you do feel valued, right? Like, again, you could be the guy that's only on the special teams and you're a rookie and, like, you get to do wise words. And you're like, wow. My head coach, you know, thinks of this, and everybody has a turn in it. And so it was really funny because he asked me, and I was like, oh, God, I completely forgot about this. Like, this whole concept. And it's. It's just every day. To your point, Shane, it's every day.

What did you say, Alex?

I actually bailed out of it because I had to get ready for the interview. So. I get it. I.

Any.

And if you're a guest, that's what he does. Like, he'll have anybody come in and kind of give wise words.

And so.

But I, you know, you. Obviously, there's only so many days, like, you're going to. Everybody's getting a turn at this. And then the other thing that he used to do that was really cool, again, to like, make you feel valued. At the Niners facility, when we were there, kind of in, like, the main traffic area, so there was, like, a triangle between the weight room, the locker room, and the training room, right? So, like, as you can imagine, that's. Everybody walks by this place, like, multiple times a day. He put up this big whiteboard, and he would assign kind of daily, weekly for different people. You had. You would be your turn to put up anything. A song lyric, a quote, a thought, right? Like, something, again, that just was on your mind. And, like, there was no, like, you could no category, like, do whatever you wanted. And it was just kind of a cool way for different people to put up something meaningful for the team. Like, dude, dude, put up whatever you want, right? Robbie? Like, again, you know, like, everybody's going to see this for a few days, and, like, it's kind of your name on it. So, like, whatever you think the team wants or. And it was just like, again, another, like, such small little thing that I felt, like, helped with cohesiveness, right? And everybody matters. Everybody has a voice. Everybody's in this together. And anyway, Two. Two more little harbor isms to go along with the birthday thing that I think are such like very uncommon sense.

Well, and it's not soft because it's like, you know, I think sometimes you can imagine be like, oh, this is kind of hokey. Like, you know, everyone isn't, you know, we're. We're out here doing something hard. It's like, no, no, dude, this is a professional football team. It's like ultimate meritocracy. There is wins and losses. Like, don't tell me that you can't pair that with meritocracy. Right? There's no way to. I will believe that. But Shane, I liked where you were going as to like, some of the reasons that this stuff is uncommon. So one of them. It's exhausting, right? You know, there is like the everyday aspect of it. What else do you think makes it uncommon?

I think that people always are attuned to, to how they're perceived and they're always sort of scanning. You know, we talked about this with David Yeager. You know, the. Especially for young people. They're always attuned with, do I have status? Do I have respect? Well, I think that extends to adults too.

Totally. He could have written that book called 10 to 99, not 10 to 20.

Yeah, right. No one wants to be labeled as adult, you know, no one wants to be labeled as someone who is not intelligent. And so people don't speak, especially in the corporate world. Speak in plain language. Right. Reason why Munger and Buffett are just geniuses. All time investors and business people is they're able to explain very complex business ideas in very, very simple terms in their shareholders letter every year. Right. So low key, practical communication. That is an amazing, amazing skill that you don't go to school for. You just have. Right. And so we, we tend to over complicate things. We use long words. We, we. We use, you know, kind of crazy theories and try to answer, I think to, to. To raise our own social profile. You know, when, when you know Occam's Razor, sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.

Yeah, I, I like that. Alex, do. What else do you think prevents people from.

They don't actually believe in it.

Okay, that's interesting.

Like they think that. Again, to go to your point, people think it's some kind of bigger mystery. Right. It's got to be something more complex. Right. Like, it can't just be this simple. And I do go back to like, again, it is, it is just these little things, right. And like they add up and in anything. And again, like I do think I carve out is like your Coach K reference, Shane. Like, he obsesses about his people. Like he believes it. Like, you can call him hokey, but like it is real. Like he, man, he lives this stuff, right? He's probably the most attentive listener with whoever's talking during the wise words, you know what I'm saying? Like, he, I think he does it just as much for him. He wants to get to know you, wants to know what you're about. He is truly curious in that. And I think he, he really does feel like it has value. He's not just doing it to do it. It's not a trick, Robbie.

So the question is, so how do we increase uncommon knowledge, right? How do we get more simple Farmer's Almanac knowledge to people that obviously it makes sense, it resonates, it's helpful to all of our lives. We know it, but we forget about it because we overcomplicate it. We don't believe in it, like Alex said. So what's the antidote? You know, what's the anecdote? Aside from listening to Glue guys?

Yeah, I mean, obviously it feels like that's the real answer. One thing I was thinking and Shane, I'm going to answer your question because I think it's the right one. Have you guys read Shoe Dog, the Phil Knight biography? Alex, have you read it?

No. I watched the movie though.

You should read the book. The book was much better.

I actually own it. It was gifted to me, but I have not read it.

Yeah, there's this great part of it. I was just thinking about your point on, like, they gotta believe it. There's this great part of it where Phil Knight, you know, talks about how he was a really bad salesperson when he was selling encyclopedias, he was selling bonds. Like, he actually had a bunch of jobs before he founded Nike. And people told him, like, you're an incredible salesperson. Like you're incredible at selling shoes. And he like goes in his introspective, it's like, well, why? He's like, actually, I was terrible at sales. He's like, I had like four sales jobs before I got to Nike. And he's like, it's really simple. He's like, it's not about selling, it's about belief. He's like, I actually believed in the power of running shoes to like improve your life. Like, I think going for a six mile run is really good for you. He's like, and I like believe that we have the best shoes. He's like, I like really believed. He's like. And so it's not that I'm a good salesperson. It's that people respond to belief. They respond to authenticity, right? Of like. And so I, I've always kept that in my mind when someone is like, when I'm buying what they're selling, whatever it is, right? As a leader, as a friend, it's, you can tell if they actually believe it. And so I think that there's like a really good insight in terms of like why this stuff doesn't happen. Shane, I think that if you're trying to convince people that this exists and is real, right, they have to believe it to this first point. So I think the first thing would be you have to get people to the mindset of like, there are no shortcuts. There's no shortcut, there's no hack. There's no way to like, you know, short the system here and get it done quicker. Like, it will be exhausting. It will be every day. Like, one of my favorite expressions of yours is everyday courage. I think this one idea of like, set the expectation that being a leader or being a teammate is exhausting of like, it's going to be consistent compounding every day there's no shortcut. I think that's a very important part. I think the second part is they have to believe strategy is not enough. Usually what ends up happening is people are like, I'm just going to solve it by getting the answer right.

Yes. Right? Yes. And this is overvalue that part of it.

Your coordinator point versus the Dan Campbell of like, no, I'm just going to like out strategy the person. And like, no, strategy is not enough. And they have to be convinced of that. And then the third part of the recipe is something you talk about. Shane, you probably said it, I think you literally said it in the Morgan Stanley Talk like 20 plus times. I don't know if you noticed, but like, trust, the word trust comes up so many times in yours. And basically people have to believe that it will be rewarded in the long term because it's not just the leader, it's the teammate, right? The teammate has to not act cool right at the board when they write the lyric. They have to buy in and they have to trust that it'll get rewarded. They have to trust that making the small play, even if it's not this coach, will get rewarded with the next one, you know, and they almost have to believe that, like, if I just do the right things I'm about the right things over a long enough period of time, maybe it's like, extend the duration, it'll get rewarded. So those would be my three things. Right. You know, that, that I think could contribute.

That's scarier for most people, right. Because your people are not against anything. They're for themselves. Right. They're not against, you know, their teammate or they're against, you know, anything that we have going on in our group. But, like, how's that affect me? Is this. Is this going to negatively, am I going to be left behind? Right. And there's just the fear that, oh, if I do this, someone's going to pass me, someone's going to take my spot, someone's going to take my dream. Right. And so it's combining that personal bias that you have to trust in yourself. You have to trust that you will be rewarded and this will make you better and this will increase your value and you will win. Right. It's so hard, though. It's so hard.

I think you said it better, Ravi, when I was like, they don't believe in it. I think it's because they over index for strategy. I think that's a better way to say it. And, and I think what I like about how you put it is like, don't get me wrong, strategy is important. Right. Like Jim. Jim Harbaugh hires great coaches and he's like, really smart and, you know, the plan is good, but, like, he also thinks this matters too. And I think that that's the key part. Right. Like the Sheryl Sandberg, like, especially as big as Company as, like, Meta is now, like, it is important that people, I think, still feel like they're a part of something as that grew into a behemoth. Right. Like, and, and those. And again, like the little stuff, it builds all that, right. Like that cohesiveness that where you feel. Seen, you feel valued.

Yeah. But I think just to go back, like, you know, so Alex, Shane, today, Alex, you know, he gave. He gave a lecture at the homeschool, you know, which is pretty awesome, by the way. He crushed it. You could tell how comfortable the kids are with him, which is really special. Like, you know, because they. They're jumping over each other. Like they're, They're. They're all like, trying to clamor for their turn, and then they're in the Zoom chat, you know, like, laughing about stuff. But. But anyway, the thing that they talked about before you got there was like, they're like, do you think it was hard for Mr. Alex to be nice to Patrick Mahomes, you know, when he came in and I was like, you should ask him, right? But like this point on trust, take that, take that example, right? And you kind of are nonchalant or dismissive almost of it. Like, of course I should have done that. But dude, like this person's trying to take your job, right? Like, and they is so natural at that point of like, I'm trying to get mine, I gotta make sure that nobody comes in. It's totally in your incentive in the short term to be like putting him down and not helping. And in fact to take the opposite approach. You really have to trust that like it's gonna be okay, it's gonna come back to you in some way. Now today you get to be viewed and this, have this amazing relationship with him. You get to be viewed as somebody who can talk about what mentorship is about, but like take that moment for us and like go through it. What is actually what trust do you have in the system or the process to do it?

I think at that moment, like I had talked about how distracted I was earlier in my career, that like I saw it as I was, I was going into year 12. And listen, you realize that like I got to prove that I can be a winning quarterback year in and year out. So I think I understood the long term goal, right? Like I, I got to play winning football and if I can play winning football, I may not have a seat at the Chiefs. But like I got a seat somewhere and there's only 32 seats, right? And so you know, from a, from us into your point, Shane, from like a selfish, right, Thinking about yourself like that I'm thinking about myself, right? Like I want my career. Like I want a seat at the table. There's 32 of them and I want one of the gigs. And I knew that, listen, if I protected the chief's seat, right, if I guarded it, I'm like, again I'm distracting myself. Like if I'm got my, you know, my elbows out and I'm like trying to hunker down, like I'm not going to reach my potential and I'm not going to play the best quarterback that I can play. And again, I know that I'm auditioning for every team out there every week. And so for me it was like the two things. Like I want to continue to find out how good I am. So I'm determined that I was not going to look over my shoulder and guard this, this seat. Like I'm going to Let it rip, right? And like, there was like a certain element like that year, you know, Matt Nagy was my quarterback coach for the whole time in Kansas City, and then he became the play caller really that year especially. But he'd been the coordinator and he. And I, like, he really helped me, push me into this zone that, like the pushback for me, that's my slogan that year was. Was it like every time I took the field, like there had. I had to let go a little bit, right? Of like the, of Patrick sitting there of like the noise, the expectations. Like, every time I took the field, like, it became our motto to one another. Like, every time I, I came out, he'd be like, it, man. Like, let's go. Like you did the prep now, like, no more worrying, right? You kind of same thing. And, and so, like, again, and it's so funny because, like, in the short term, I did lose my job, right? Like I lost in the playoffs and the starting job for the Chiefs was gone. But to your point of like, long term value, like, I actually improved. I got. I had like five teams willing to trade for me again. And I got this contract, long term contract that obviously really helped, you know, stabilize my career and family's future for forever, you know. And so I think being able to look past those little short term, kind of instinctual things, which is like, yeah, again, I'm going to be addicted to this kid and like guard him and box him out. And then at the same time, though, I'm probably won't play nearly as good as I should because I'm freaking worried about. I'm looking over my shoulder every minute.

You know, go back to Uncommon Sense, right? And so, yeah, it was the right thing to be good to Pat, right? Mentor him, help him along.

Right?

It kept the seat warm. It secured your future spot. Who taught you that? Where'd you learn that? Right? Did you have coaches that said, hey, it'd be good for you to mentor this kid, but in knowing you, it was just kind of understood. You saw the writing on the wall, right? So what in your mind said, no, this is, this is just the right thing to do.

This is also the being mistreated almost as the early quarterback, right? Like there's. Don't. Don't you think that influenced it?

Oh, I didn't have a mentor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get one. And it was. And I needed one. I really needed one. Like, I knew that, like, I was like sewing over my head early on and I didn't have it And I do think I've said this before. Like, you know, if, if Patrick was a punk when he came in, like, I think it would have lent itself to being like, you know, screw this kid. But like that wasn't, that wasn't the way either. Like, Patrick was awesome. Like, he was crazy respectful like from day one. And I think that mutual respect leads to trust. Shane, like to your point, like, that's not trying to undercut me. He values me. I value him. Like there was. And then I think realizing too ultimately, like I'm trying to reach my potential and so is Patrick. Like, those things don't contradict each other. Like they don't have to contradict each other. Does that make sense?

Again, when you think about 32 teams rather than one, they don't have to. Right?

Yeah, exactly.

The game you were playing.

Yeah. And so I think that ultimately I, you know, it's so funny when I, and maybe this, I, I don't know if this is relatable. When I got the starting job at Utah, Shane, it was because the starting quarterback, do you remember Urban Meyer mentioned him. Brett Elliott, he broke his wrist. So like I kind of like he was like, I kind of Wally pipped him. Like he was the starting quarterback. And on the very last play of the game versus Texas A and M, literally the last, like we were down to going for the two point conversion. He goes and he, he's awesome, dude. He goes and dives for the pylon and gets hit and doesn't get in and he breaks his wrist.

Okay.

And so the only reason I got the starting opportunity to play quarterback was because of an injury. And the next week we played on Thursday Night Football against Cal. I played against Aaron. It was my first career start. And like I ended up, obviously I started every game there on out for the next two years and go off and it's like, oh, it's all great. But like Brett, Brett and I are still good friends. Like he was awesome. Like, and he very easily could have been and should have been so freaking bitter and upset. And he just was always so cool to me. And I remember how much I like I appreciated that. Right. And like how. And here we went on this run and like I'm sure he could have been like, damn, that could have been me. You know, and he just is always so cool and so like, I think I just really valued that, you know, with me, like, I, you know, like, I don't know, like that like he did the right thing, you know, to the point like this Guy was bigger than it. You know, I just stuck with me.

You know, I tried to be that guy for every team that I played for, except when I knew that I was just wasting my energy, right? There were a lot of guys I play with in the locker room that I would, you know, put my. Put my arm around them and say, hey, think about these things. And, you know, got a blank stare back. And I'm like, I'm not wasting my time. Like, I never forget Hassan Whiteside, okay? Hasan Whiteside came in and traded and actually tried out for the Heat in training camp in 2014. My last year there, we need. We needed a center. I think Greg Oden was there. And, you know, Hasan Whiteside, obviously, like, seven foot two, like, athletic. And after training camp, one day, like, running sprints, well, this guy, like, goes in the corner, like, lays down, like, okay. One thing you don't do with the Miami Heat is, like, you show that you're, like, fatigued and just, like, gassed by, like, laying down on the court, right? It's just. It's like a no. No.

It's like.

It's a no. You never lay down on the basketball court. This is just the bad look. And I go over to him. I'm like, hey, man, like, you know, Pat Riley's over there, Eric Spoelstra, and a good look, man, why don't you just, like, at least sit up or, like, get up and walk around? And he kind of looked at me and kind of shook me off, and I'm like, this kid doesn't have a chance now. He went on to, like, $100 million contract. So, you know, I think I gave up on him too early. But when you're trying to bring people along, all right, there is something about meeting them a quarter of the way. All right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that look, that's also interesting, right, because you have to figure out where to be patient versus where. Not one thing that. Alex, you said this, like, kind of just remembering that the thing you're trying to figure out is, like, how good can I be? Right? And, you know, earlier we were talking about it in a different context of, like, even you going to Utah versus Going to. One of the questions the kids asked was like, why did you go to Utah versus Going. They call it. They didn't know how to pronounce Dartmouth, so they pronounced it Dartmouth, because that's how it's spelled. And which I thought was great, but. But anyway. And you're kind of like, I wanted to figure out how good I was right. I. And I think that there's actually this thing that's in all of our careers and all of our lives of, like, there's this motivation of sometimes, like, I gotta. I wanna figure out how good I am. But I think if you go back to the Steve Young episode, you remember what he said that Stephen Covey kind of convinced him of. It was sort of like, you have an opportunity that's unlike anybody else's to figure out how good you are. You got to take advantage of that. And I think that there's so much in there of, like, remembering that, like, this is why all the old heads remind you, like, you're running your own race. You're not. It's actually you're not running against everybody else the way you think you are. You're trying to figure out how good you can be. And this other person has nothing to do with that. Right. But what matters is you. And it's like, that, I think, is, like, such an important realization and maturity that you had at some point, and that I hope, you know, I've had it in my career, too, where somebody does an amazing. I remember at kkr, there was one of my friends who was doing much better than me. And I remember thinking, like, oh, man. Like, gosh, he's such a better investor than I am, you know, and, like, he's going to get promoted sooner than I am. And then you, like, realize. I remember, like, talking through my head. It's like, his investments don't matter to me. In fact, they're helping. Right. What matters is, am I any good at this? That, you know, him not being good at it is not going to help me at all. I have to actually be good. Right? The question is whether I can be any good at this. It's not about when I get promoted. It's not that. It's about whether I'm actually any good at this. So I think that is something that sticks with me a lot of, like, that realization for you, for sure.

And I think that kind of mindset, when you're comparing yourself to others, which is, like, it always happens, right. And I like, especially in the media, and I hate it because, like, I do think there's that quote, like, comparison. It's like, steals your soul.

Yeah. Comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah. Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah.

It just. It just sucks, right? And we still all do it. And I think it's kind of human nature. But when it does that, like, when you're looking to your buddy who's crushing it from an investment standpoint. All of a sudden I think it's like, oh, God, I. I have weight on me, like, because I gotta pick up my deal. Whereas when you flip it to like, I want to find out how good I am. And this goes back to like what you were talking about. Like, whenever the old guys come around and, and Shane, I, I don't know if it's like this for you, but every old football player that would come around and talk to us, Robbie, all they, all they would talk about was like, if they could do it one more time, right? And there was this idea of being grateful for what you have while you have it. And to your point about Hassan, right side and like, I think some of these guys, and I'm not saying him because I don't know him, but like, sometimes when you're in it and the guys that are punks, like, you lose that, right? You lose it. Like, you don't. You're not grateful for the opportunity. And I think when you compare yourself to people, you lose that, right? Like, because that's. I know what's. What happened to me. Like, all that weight, I was feeling, like you don't have this grateful aspect or view to the opportunity, which again, and I think when you take that long term view is like, man, I really, I do want to find out how good I can be. And this is my journey. And it kind of flips you into that, that half of the glass. And I think that that's obviously makes a huge difference.

Well, Alex, it's funny you say that, and we talked about this on stage. Like, the purest moment in any championship situation is when the clock hits zero and confetti's coming down and you're like, oh, my gosh, I. I'm a champion. And that was the hardest thing I ever had to do. And like, you understand the effort at that moment, at that single moment when you are a champion, you've done it, you know, whatever your championship is, right? And you've done it. You're like, oh, my gosh. And my point is, like, no one actually knows how good they can be until they actually are that good. That's the ironic part. You think you might know, like, you had a game plan, you know, when Ravinder was, you know, at kkr, he thought he had a game plan and a path. And you thought you had a path to, you know, the College Football hall of Fame. You don't know. You don't know. And until you do it and check that box and I did it.

I did.

And holy crap, that was hard. That was the hardest thing I ever did. That comment by the old pros. I wish I could do it again. I think we all want to go back because, like, you want to appreciate, like, no, I am that good. I am that good. I, I, my plan is solid and my work is, is going to get me there. So let me enjoy it a little bit more. Right? And you know, that's, that's the beauty and the tough part of life, right?

Youth is wasted on the young.

Youth is wasted on the young. Good Lord. Right. But, like, as we're all trying to figure it out again, it goes back to that faith in yourself and that trust in yourself that if you do the right things and if you think you have a solid plan and you want to put the work in and the sacrifice and all these things, like, you just have to sort of put your faith in the cosmos that you're going to get to where you want to be.

Yeah, but I think, Shane, I totally agree with that. I also think the other reason that I would ever think about wanting to do anything again is I want to take any moment that I ever spent worrying about anything other than how good can I be, right? And not spend that time. Do you see what I'm saying? Because like you said, it's a distraction. And I think the other thing I wish is that I wish that I had, like, I think that if you think about why is it uncommon? People have got to take longer duration as they think about it. It's like, it's not about this one, you know, optimization for who's going to be in this one meeting or who's going to play in this next minute. It's like, no, if I just do the right things, I'll figure out how good I can be, you know, for a long time. And I, I don't know, Alex, that, like, has really stuck with me from the, even from the Steve Young episode. And then what you've said, and then, Shane, what you've said. And I think the, there was this thing in Starting Five. Do you guys watch Starting Five at all? The Netflix series?

Yeah.

Okay. Have you watched it, Alex?

I have not.

It's like, you know, did you watch quarterback or wide receiver? Okay, cool. So it's like the basketball version of that, right? It's interesting. Joe Missoula, the coach of the Celtics, who, by the way, is like kind of a rando philosopher. Like, he, he says some stuff that you're like, huh, man, this guy, he's definitely thinking at one point, they're asking him about Jason Tatum. Okay. And he's like, he's like, you know, how. How tough do you think it is that Jason has to deal with all the media attention? And Missoula corrects, you know, corrects the reporter, interrupts the reporter or the interviewer, and he's like, gets to deal with it. And the reporter's like, what? He's like, gets to deal with the media attention. He's like, we all want to be the player that gets talked about by the media all the time. Right. That's what all of us want. He's like, and Jason gets to do that. Like, yeah, sure, it's hard, but it's the thing every player in the NBA wants. And I was like, damn, like, what a reframe of, you know, if you're in the league, you want to be the guy. I think you guys tell me that, like, is being discussed and talked about.

I think you want the national media to put the interview request for you.

Right.

You know? Yeah.

As coach Case to say, don't worry about what they're saying about you now. Worry when they stop talking about you. All right? Then you got problems. The phone stops ringing for you. When they stop talking about you now you got to worry.

Yeah. Yeah. The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. I think that's like an Oscar Wilde quote. And it's so true. But, you know, in the moment, I'm sure Tatum, he's getting interviewed in there and he's like, yeah, man, like the media, effectively. Media sucks and. But it's good, like somebody in his life. The coaches are like, dude, nope, you asked for this and you want it. You want this versus the alternative every time. But, like, I think that, I guess, question for you guys. Do you think everyone wonders how good they can be?

No. I think the natural instincts to be far more short sighted.

Yeah.

That's like the human nature.

Yeah.

Look at your guy next to you and you compare yourself.

I think for a vast majority of the world's population, they're trying to get to next month, next quarter. Right. You know, the. The hey, whoa, how do I optimize? Is not something that is a dinner discussion in most households around the world. Right. So I agree with Alex. Much more short term thinking, hey, how do we just get a little bit better? Right? How do we make it to next week?

So. So what's interesting then is I agree with that, by the way. I also think there's a personality aspect to it of Course, I do think you have to be competitive in order to care. How good can I be? Because you got to be curious about, I think of like you're trying to compete against, you know, yourself and what is possible. But maybe, Shane, you're looking up, so maybe you don't agree with that. I'm curious if you do.

I think competitive, but also have gratitude, Right. I think most people who think about these things, and I count, you know, you, Alex and Ravi, we talk about these things a lot. How can we be better dads? How can we be better business people? How can we be better teammates and all these things. Like we, we understand that we have a gratitude of like we have opportunity, right? So yes, we're competitive about it, but like it's like, man, we got this chance to really go from here to here and raise ourselves and raise our game. So I think there's a competitive aspect, but also there's like a just a observing like a, an opportunity and having gratitude for that opportunity.

Yeah. Honestly, you actually made the point I was hoping to make, which was that I actually think if you do take the point of like a lot of people have just gotta get to tomorrow, right? Well then you don't have the luxury of getting to think about how good you can be. And so if you are in a place where you even have any space where you get to think about that, it's really lucky. It doesn't always feel like that. Nobody feels like that when they're in high power jobs or very like highly competitive jobs, you know, Like, Alex, you're framing for the Mahomes thing could be like, I have one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history in the making who's now trying to steal my job. Like, that's pretty shitty, right? Like that's like, man, that's pretty bad luck, right? Versus the idea of like, no, like I have a chance to figure out how good I can be and if I can be one of the winning quarterbacks and take up one of the 32 seats. Like, man, I'm lucky I got 32 of these seats, not just one. And it is like a privilege to figure out how good you can be, you know. And so I do think that it's like being grateful that you even get to think about that, you know, like my grandfather, you know, in 1957, couldn't think about how good he could be. He was just like fucking trying to make sure that he could take care of the five kids, you know, and so it's like a real privilege to actually get to think like that.

Yeah, totally agree. Hey, two random nuggets from like past episodes that like I think just came up for me, relevance wise. I sent you guys the quote, but Mike Tomlin this last week, right? Like who. He's. He's also, he, he like is amazing press conference philosopher and he got asked about their struggling. Their right tackle, is a second year pro, was like an early pick. He's kind of been struggling this year a little bit. And after the game got asked in the media, in the press conference, right after the game got asked like, have you thought about benching him? You know, kind of sitting him down. And Tomlin's quote was so much and it reminded me so much. I'm glad you brought up Carl, really, because it was like so much the moment where he said to you at Sequoia, like, as long as I'm here, you're here, right?

You anticipate any personnel changes when it comes to Broderick Jones and maybe some of the unforced errors that he. I am not worried about that. You guys can write all you want. Broderick Jones is playing right tackle for us. He going to continue to get better. He's a top quality player in terms of his talent. He's a young guy. He's experiencing some on the job training.

He.

And I will not blink, keep writing.

I just think like again the power like in this whole. Even I love how you said it, you get to do the media. Like I'm sure coaches don't want to do these post game press conferences but like if I'm going to do it, I'm going to use it as a tool. And here I get to send a message to everybody, but especially Broderick Jones that like, listen, you know what I'm saying? Like I think when he woke up the next day and, and read that like I. That's powerful man. And it reminded me so much of what Carl% Carl did for you there. Like, listen dude, you're good, I got you, you know, and I thought it was really cool. And like often I think people ask like about the parallels of sports and business, right? Which is obviously what we talk about a lot. But like that was like a really cool one. I was like, this is the exact same thing. Exact same thing. And then the other one last weekend, Sloan had to go in, my daughter Sloan had to go in for her mri. And so she has a brain tumor and has to get regular MRIs. And she picked me. She picked. This is two times in a row she's picked me over mom, which, by the way, big, big dad moment. And so I went in. And I say this because she does amazing in MRIs, but the big point of contention is she. They have to be contrast. She has to get contrast, so she has to get an IV put in, and she hates the needles. She just, like. This is, like, a big point of anxiety for her. And we have tried everything, dude. We, like, the people at the hospital, you know, they have a whole department for this. They tried to do this whole thing where they actually, like, showed her the needle. They let. I let her give. She gave me an IV one time because I was, like, trying to let her, like, she would. She would practice on, like, oranges. And then she gave me an IV to, like, try to break down the barriers. None of this stuff worked, dude. Just, like, massive anxiety and tears around the iv, and it was, like, a really. It's always been a battle with it. So we're going back in, and I can sense, like, the anxiety starts to kick in, like, because we go in, she has to, like, change into her gown, and it kind of kickstarts this anxiety ticker for her, and I can sense it. And it would remind me so much of, obviously, the David Yeager stuff, right? Like, your kid's doing something hard, and I'm like. It, like, hit me, and I'm like, I'm gonna try it. So I. Dude, I go all in, and I'm like, you know what? Like, I know the. The anxious feeling you're feeling right now, like, your heart beating faster, and you. You feeling, like, uncomfortable. And I'm like, you want to know what this is? Your body actually getting ready to do something really hard, and it's actually making you stronger to do this, like, you know, and it's preparing you. And, dude, it was unbelievable. So I went on this thing. Not a single tear.

Wow.

It was first try. Like, typically, it's like, this is a dozen times, because she says, no, no, I'm not ready. She freaks out. She's crying, and she's so tough, dude, but she's so tough. But like, this. It's hard for her. And this time, it was, like, not a single tear. And first try, put her arm out. She, like, grabbed my hand, and she just like. And so I. Now it's an N of one, but, like, shout out to the David Yeager parenting moment, man. It was super cool.

Super awesome.

That's awesome, dude. That's better than awesome. And the. I mean, the application of it for you right in the moment, grabbing it, using, working, and, like, you know, her figuring out all those explanations and everything. Like, dude, that's awesome. Yeah.

Super cool. So. Oh, if you're listening. Appreciate you, man.

Blue Guys, you know, you just never know who's gonna come on the show and, you know, change your life. Change your life.

You should listen for Uncommon Sense as well as, you know, guests that will inspire you. I feel like there is no better place to rap than that. That was awesome, dude. That's so cool. Awesome.

Thanks for tuning in to Glue Guys. We're on social media at Glue Guys Podcast, and we'll be back next.