224. Get REAL Pleasure & Stop Faking It with Vanessa Marin

And to be loved, we need to be known.

Hello, love bugs. Welcome to we can do hard things. Today we have a sweet, sexy episode for you with our fave, Vanessa Marin, who makes sex feel doable.

She's gotten you talking. This is now the fourth episode that we've done here.

I know.

With Vanessa.

I just like. I like Vanessa's approach very much. Vanessa Marin is a sex therapist and New York Times best selling author of Sex talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life, co written with her husband, Xander Marin. Vanessa is here to help you kick shame out of the bedroom so you can start feeling the connection, pleasure, and joy you deserve. Thank you for coming back again. We just wanted to ask you a bunch of questions.

Yeah, I'm ready.

Okay. And I want to ask you also to tell us what people ask you the most often. First, I want to ask you this. We've done three episodes together already, and one of the most frequently asked questions to me after people listen to those episodes are, if I've been faking orgasm with my partner. I've heard this like 20 times. Okay. If I have been faking orgasms with my partner, how do I come clean? I want to stop it now. I want to get real. I want to start over. I want to explore how to have an actual orgasm. But I'm in so much shame and fear because I've been faking it this whole time. Where do I start? So we'll just start with an easy one like that.

Yes. Okay. You have two options here. I'm going to give you two choices, but first, what I want you to start with is, is forgiving yourself. So nobody sets out faking orgasms to be a jerk to their partner. Like, let me figure out how I can really mess with my partner. I'm going to fake this for 10 years. And then once we get down there, then I'm really going to throw him for a loop. No. We fake orgasm because we're taught so much crap about how our bodies work. We're taught that it's not okay for us to ask for what we want. We're taught that we're supposed to be more focused on our partner's experience than our own. It's a whole lot of BS we that a lot of us have been taught. And faking feels like the easiest way to get around all of that. And I say that as somebody who faked every single orgasm with every partner for years. So I get this. So going forward, what do we do? Two options. The first one is the harder One. So that's to come clean to your partner and tell them that you have been faking. And so if you want to do that. What I would do is share with your partner the reasons why you started faking and talk about all those things that I meant mentioned. Like, I was taught it wasn't okay for me to ask for what I want. I never knew what my body needed. I was ashamed. So share it with your partner. So you're helping give them the context of, I never meant this to hurt you. I completely understand that it does. And then you have to leave the space for your partner to have their feelings about it, because they're going to have feelings, and it's going to be tricky. They're going to feel, like, sad. They might feel upset. They might feel like their trust has really been, you know, shaken.

So.

So you're going to have to sit with that, and that is going to be challenging. But it's also can be a huge relief to finally just get everything out there in the open and be able to regroup after that of, okay, how do we need to approach our sex life differently to make sure that this is happening for you? Because I can almost guarantee you that your partner wants you to be having real orgasms. So if that option just has you sweating from head to toe, then the other option is to tell a little bit of a white lie around this and to tell your partner, I've been noticing lately that the things that my body is responding to feel really different from what it used to respond to. And so I want to be able to give you more feedback for us to try some new things out. I'm not really sure why I'm not responding the same way that I used to, but things are just different. And you can even say, when I'm masturbating, touching myself, I'm noticing things feel different. So this is a white lie. It's not really the truth of what happened, but it is something different because.

You'Ve decided you're not going to lie about it. Yeah.

Yeah. In general, my advice is always, like, the more open and honest we are, the better, even though it is very hard to do sometimes. But I do think this option can be okay in some circumstances where you're still giving your partner the ability to kind of reset of like, okay, we've got to try some different things. Let's find what's working. Let's see what you like. And there also is a reality of, like, what we like does change throughout our lives. So couples get into trouble if they kind of get locked into a pattern of, well, this is what works. This is what we always do. We talked about that before. Right. So you're introducing this idea of just trying a slightly different approach. So that'll spare your partner's feelings. It won't feel as hard on you, but it'll still give you that opportunity to reset your sex life.

That's nice to give. And everyone has different levels of safety in their relationship. So that's.

Exactly.

That's great. But I do think if it's possible in. In terms of sex about everything, it's kind of a beautiful thing for your partner to know that you are a person that doesn't always say what you want. Here's an example. I just learned in therapy that I never really say what I want to watch on tv. I just make a decision based on what I think the family, most of the people will want, and then I say that thing anyway. The point being that a lot of women don't say what they need or want because they'd rather just keep the peace than introduce themselves. So wouldn't it be a beautiful exercise in a relationship just to use that one thing to then begin to explain that you're going to start figuring out what you like and want and need in a lot of different areas and make it even bigger than about that one thing? It could become a revelation.

That's the first person that you can.

Trust to tell the truth about that with that information.

Like, I didn't tell these other people because I knew it wouldn't be relevant to them. And you're the first person that I trust exactly. Wants to do this the real way with me.

I want to circle back just really quick. What do you want to be watching on tv?

I mean, honestly, I want to watch Vanderpump Rules. That's really what I want to watch.

Really.

I want to watch trash tv.

And this is what's interesting is, is even though she's not saying what she wants, she's still very opinionated about what we end up watching.

That's what we talked about with my.

Therapist, because she's fighting for the energy of the room and to control what the thing is that we're all watching in a way. And it's hilarious that it's not even what you want.

It's a thing.

But that goes into the what do women want? Because the scariest thing, what I desperately, is for the energy in this room to be correct. What I want desperately is for what should happen to happen. Yes, but, like, that's a different question than what do I want?

I think this is what we're exploring. This is what we're exploring that. I think that in my family, in work, when, wherever I can be perceived as a bit of a tyrant, like, as a. I. No, I want my. But I'm never getting what I want. I'm just, like, trying to control the thing to make everybody happy. But nobody's gonna be happy. But nobody's happy because nobody's getting what they want. This is another thing, Vanessa. This is with a different therapist.

Okay.

Yeah. I feel like this is all so related.

My God, it's related.

It's all related. And this is what I think is so interesting about sex, is it's very easy for us to compartmentalize sex and think, oh, it's just that thing that happens in our bedroom with the doors closed and the lights off. But how we show up in sex is how we show up in life. And so even if you're feeling really nervous to read sex talks, to have these convers, to start working on your sex life to remind yourself, this is going to have impacts wildly, wildly beyond the bedroom. This is going to affect every relationship in my life, every area of my life. There's so much growth to be had here.

It is so true. It is so true. It feels like you got to nail it all before you can get to the sex part of your life. But actually, if you can just explore through sex, it can go the other way. It can start affecting every other part of your life. You can start with sex. Can you talk to us about masturbating? Because you just said it like it's the easiest thing to talk about or it's just nothing. But actually, lots of us have been taught to be ashamed of masturbating. So just talk to us about how to undo the shame. What's the skinny on masturbating, Vanessa?

Okay, I'll loop us back to the last episode. We'll really start talking about some hard things here. So we were talking about Amanda's experience with her daughter. Like, the back scratches at night, right? And, like, this way that kids are so tuned into their own bodies, their own needs, and their own desires. So kids masturbate. There is evidence of fetuses in the womb masturbating. Now, it's not masturbation in the way that we think of it as adults. A lot of us think of masturbation as, you know, very sexual. But for kids, it's. It's just an exploration of their bodies. Oh, that feels good. Just like my little back scratches feel good. And a lot of us have had experiences as children of both being caught masturbating. And that was one of the earliest experiences that we got of learning. Pleasure is not okay. That's shameful. Don't do that. Don't touch yourself.

Something is weird about you that you were inclined to do that. You're a big weirdo. Yeah.

And in particular, women get a lot of negative socialization about masturbating as well. With boys. There's sort of a, like, boys will be boys kind of thing about it.

It's kind of a cute celebration.

Yeah.

I remember, like, the boy baby boys in the bathtub, and they're, like, playing with their penises, and it's like, oh, isn't this hilarious? Like, we expect it. That is an appropriate exploration. But a girl doing it is like, oh, Jesus.

Exactly. It's so much more shameful. And so as women, most of us feel deeply uncomfortable with the idea of masturbating. A huge percentage of women have never masturbated before. So this is one of those areas where, for me, the best thing to do is just get really fired up about this. Like, masturbation is a deeply spiritual act, like being connected with your own body, understanding what your body needs to feel good, to feel pleasure, to have orgasms. Like, what more powerful experience can you have with your own body? And yet, so many of us have been robbed of the opportunity to have that kind of relationship. We've been taught so much shame that we just never access that part of ourselves. So for me, masturbation is a reclamation. It's a. This is my body. I deserve to touch it with love and curiosity and openness and excitement. I deserve to explore what brings me pleasure, to explore what brings me to orgasm. I deserve that intimate knowledge of myself, that intimate relationship with myself. So for me, that. Yeah, that energy of, like, getting fired up about what we've been robbed of, that's such a great way to overcome the shame that might come up for you in the moment. So. So now let me, like, take a deep breath and dial that back. That was so beautiful. Super, like, practically. I always want to give, like, practical tips, too. If you just feel so much shame about this, we can break it down into baby steps. So a first one would be just visualize yourself touching yourself. You don't actually have to touch yourself, Just visualize it and practice getting comfortable just with that image. And then maybe the next step could be you just place your Hand on the outside of your vulva and you don't move it. You're not touching anything. You're not trying to make yourself feel good. You're literally just holding your hand over yourself and practicing, like, breathing deeply and connecting to yourself. So, I mean, even just that can be such a beautiful experience for so many women. But take it slow and ease your way into it.

And you are a fan of vibrators, I imagine. Are we all feeling vibrators?

I think vibrators can be great. I mean, they can deliver an intensity of stimulation that the human body just cannot. And for a lot of people with ability issues, people on medications where they might not be feeling as sensitive, like, they can be absolute life changers. Also, for people who have never really explored their genitals before and don't really know, like, a vibrator is going to be a lot more intense. So it can be kind of a shortcut to like, oh, okay, that feels good. I know what that sensation is like. Like, yeah. So I always like to be clear. Sometimes people think, oh, well, if you're using a vibrator, like, it's, it's not the same or it's not the real thing. There's no orgasm hierarchy here. Like, it's just whatever brings your body pleasure.

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Does stimulation, specifically clitoral stimulation by a vibrator, does that desensitize or make less likely.

Manual stimulation to orgasm?

Partner orgasm?

That's what I was going to ask.

It can, but it's not just about the vibrator. So it's I think when we are masturbating, we have to be, and this is for people of all genders, all genitals. We have to be thoughtful about the patterns that we're creating on our own. So there's kind of this saying, the nerves that fire together wire together. We're just very good at making patterns. And so if you are masturbating in the same way every single time. And so that could be with a vibrator. It could be a specific technique you're using for people with penises. It could be using a certain level of pressure or a certain level of speed. It could be watching porn, anything. If you are only doing that thing. Your body just gets accustomed to it. And it can be harder to experience that with a partner. So I think an easy rule of thumb is just mix it up with yourself. We talked about keeping it spicy with your partner. Keep it spicy with yourself. Maybe like half the time that you masturbate, try something different. And then half the time you can use your old standby method. And then with vibrators in particular, one thing that I find happens is vibrators can turn us into very lazy masturbators. For a lot of us, it's like you turn it on, you hold it.

In place, you just kind of. That was a good 45 seconds.

Kick it back and. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. For a lot of people you can have an orgasm like that. It's so fun.

You can have an orgasm while you're planning your groceries. Just you don't even have to think about what you're doing.

It's a quick commercial break, people.

Have you seen the people who like wear like they put an egg or some sor of vibrational device inside their partner and then they go out and their partner actually has the on and off button. So they're like walking down the aisles.

Berlin.

No, they're like grocery shopping and they're like walking down the aisles and she goes and grabs like the Oreos from the aisle and she falls to the ground.

What kind of Kroger are you at?

I mean, these are on my reels on ig.

Oh, for shit's sake.

Oh, okay. There are a lot of great Bluetooth enabled toys, but yes, and lazy masturbation is delightful sometimes. Like, I'm not knocking it, but if you are, then with a partner there can be this mental impatience that kicks in of like, oh, this is taking so long. And like now I have to focus and I have to give feedback. So that's just something to be aware of. Like it's okay to have your lazy masturbation, but sometimes practice being in the moment, moving the vibrator around, taking little breaks from the vibrator and just recognize it's going to be different when you're with a partner.

That's good.

I just real quick want to tell you just because I just thought of it when I was in elementary school, this is the only time that I've ever had like a major athletic side is that we had this. It was called the tough 20 club and it was a rope that hung from the ceiling of the gym.

Oh, yeah.

And where you're going with this, I could fucking Clear that rope. I was, like, the least athletic, but I was the first in line for that rope. And I don't. I remember not knowing what the hell was happening. But by the time I got to the top rope, I was like, this is. Climbing ropes is the most amazing feeling. And just like hanging onto the top of the rope, looking out like, oh, my God, it's like heaven at the top of a rope.

Okay.

This is actually a huge gift that you're giving to your audience because this is one of the top three female masturbation techniques. It's like some sort of grinding sensation. So most girls discover this on the playground. I was with you exactly the same. Like, I love pe, but some people will do it with. It could be like a balled up towel, clothes against the side of, like, a desk. So grinding is one of the top three techniques, but it's not something that ever gets talked about. So. So many women feel like something is super wrong with me if that's the way that I used to get off, if that was the thing that worked for me. But it's not. It's incredibly, incredibly common, and it makes perfect sense.

Great. I feel better about it already. Vanessa, a lot of people after some of our episodes have asked. All of this stuff is hard enough to enter into, to talk to, to try to try new ways. What about people who are survivors of sexual abuse, of sexual assault, are people for whom this is triggering in very, very real ways. I just really would love to offer those people any help in terms of the very difficult climb out of, like, trying to find your safest place in a place that has been the least safe for you.

Absolutely. So in Sex talks, we do have a section of it where we talk about the experience, experience of abuse. We also have at our website, it's VM therapy.com my initials. If you go to the website, we have a free course that we give away to anybody who's been a survivor of sexual abuse. It's not meant to be a replacement for therapy. I want to be really clear about that. I think anybody who's experienced sexual abuse deserves to have the container of therapy. But it is a very practical guide for understanding the specific impact that abuse can have on your sex life and for rediscovering how to make sex feel safe and pleasurable again. So it's called a Survivor's Guide. It's@vmtherapy.com and so the main thing is it's really important to recognize that it does have impacts. So I'm Going to just speak to women for now. I do want to acknowledge people of all genders have experienced sexual abuse. But a lot of women, when I work with them around this, have the tendency to downplay it. That happened so long ago. I'm over it by now. A lot of women have had it way worse than I had it, and they don't recognize, like, what happened to you was not okay. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. It doesn't matter how bad or not bad it was. Like, you never, ever deserve to have your boundaries violated. And it's very important to recognize that it is. Is going to impact your sex life. And that can be one of the hardest things. It's like you endured something you shouldn't ever have had to endure, and you also have to deal with the lasting impact. But a lot of women say it felt really validating to acknowledge that it is getting in the way. So some common things that can come up is you might feel yourself dissociating during sex. Like, it feels like your body is there in the moment, but your brain, your spirit, your soul is, like, miles and miles away. You can even feel, like, a sense of watching yourself. Like, a lot of women will say, I feel like I'm up on the ceiling looking down at my body. You might have a hard time, like, feeling a lot of hypervigilance. If your partner touches you, you feel yourself tense up a lot, or you're always kind of on guard for when they're gonna initiate. You might have low sex drive. This goes back to that enjoyment, desire, connection that we talked about in the earlier episodes. If your body has learned that sex is an unsafe, scary, painful, unwanted experience, why are you going to have a wild desire for that? Right? So those are just some of the many things that can come up. And there's more detail in that. In that course that I mentioned. But just being able to recognize, like, these things make sense. There's nothing wrong with me. It makes sense that I have these experiences.

Why is missionary sex, missionary style, called missionary style? Because suddenly I was reading your book, and I kept reading missionary, and I was like, whoa, why are we calling this missionary? Do you know why?

I actually don't know the history behind that. What? Yeah. Where did the name come from? What did it trace back to the missionaries and we decided to give some name to it. But, yeah, no, it feels. It's just been called suspicious missionary sex.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at that, because in the last episode where Glenn and you were talking about but what is this? What is the origin of our fantasies?

What is it saying about us?

We are always trying to connect to the higher level of us. Like quote, unquote, what does it mean from my brain? What does it mean from who I am? As opposed to, we are wild ass animals. We were born that way, and unless it's beaten out of us, we will remain that way. But the world has civilized the shit out of us so that anytime there's anything that feels odd, we're like, well, that's wrong. And so it wouldn't surprise me at all that if it was the missionaries, they went over and saw people being luscious, joyful, wild animals and they were like, well, we need to just reign this joy in a little bit.

Exactly.

We'll give them one way to do it, interesting way.

We'll do to their sexuality what we're about to do to their faith and.

Their economies and their bottom of the.

I'm have to look that up now. Look up the history.

You don't have to. I have feelings. Checked it. Lauren, our producer just sent us something and it says that according to Wikipedia, it is said that the name missionary position arose because this sex position was supposed to have been taught by Christian missionaries as the only quote, proper sex position.

Yep. Not shocked. Makes total sense.

Oh my God.

Okay, we should start calling the gender binary the missionary binary.

Yeah, we should just start calling it missionary. And of course it's one of the positions that's least pleasurable for women. Yeah, exactly. Of course that's the only proper way to have it.

Unrelated. Vanessa, I'm sure they didn't calculate that.

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Oh, I thought you were gonna say.

30 to 50 year period.

No, but like this time of life, is there a time of life that there are just like some ebbs and flows and lows and when are they and am I in one now?

So studies have shown that one of the biggest ebbs in a couple's sex life happens after kids just the exhaust the Overwhelm, the sleepless nights and even the physical discomfort of. It can be a really difficult time. But in terms of, like, overall, you know, patterns, I've really found that every couple has their own unique ebbs and flows. And it is important for us to normalize this, too. Like, we've talked so much in our other episodes about this belief that we all have that more is better, we just need to be having all the sex and then everything is okay. But the reality is we all have seasons of life where we're more focused on physical intimacy and we're less focused on physical intimacy, and that's okay. So we did a study. I can't remember if I mentioned this in one of our previous episodes, but we did a frequency survey. And at this. It's not a, you know, proper scientific survey, but we have had 70,000 people answer it, which is quite a lot. And we found that there weren't huge noticeable differences in how much people are having sex across different age groups, which I found quite fascinating. There was a slight decline as people got older, but we had plenty of respondents in their 70s, 80s, who were still quite active. So it's not that once you hit a certain age, it's just a fast downhill slide from there. It's really more individual. It does always come back to us being able to ask ourselves, in the season of life that we're in right now, are we feeling satisfied with the amount of connection that we're having? So, again, it's really easy for us go to. We should be having more sex. I feel like our friends are having more sex. Everybody seems to be talking about having more sex. Great. I don't care. What is it that you feel for yourself? Are you satisfied with the amount of sex that you're having? And I will also say I challenge every couple to push yourselves to make a little bit more space for physical intimacy than you might think. So not force yourself to have sex if you don't want to. I will never in a million years say that, but create the space for that. Because the reality is we all lead really busy lives. It's very easy for sex to fall to the bottom of the to do list. We're tired. We've got other stuff going on. We just don't make the space for it. And I'm sure you guys have noticed in our lives, like, unless we make the space for things, life just fills up with lots of other stuff. So challenge yourself to say, you know, maybe we're going to carve out time for date nights. And it doesn't mean that we need to have sex on those times. Maybe we're just going to make out. Maybe we're just going to hold hands. Maybe we're just going to have an intimate convers with each other. But make the space for that.

Vanessa, don't you have a makeout rule that just went viral? I feel like.

Did I just see this?

Oh my gosh, no. But tell us about the makeout rule. Cause this was really helpful to millions of people.

Yes, it was a TikTok that I made that I think at this point there have been 8 or 9 million people that have watched it. So it really took off. So this is a rule, a guideline. Some people got a little triggered by the rule. It's a guideline, a fun thing that Xander and I decided to start doing because I realized that we had really stopped making out. And I think a lot of couples in long term relationships stop making out. And for Xander and I, it was one of the most fun things about our relationship. In the early stages, we would make out like all the time. And it was so fun. And we would enjoy making out just for the sake of making out.

Can you define making out? Define making out.

Tongue contact.

Tongue contact.

Okay, some tongue contact. Yeah. And not everybody loves tongue contact. So if you like pecs, if you just like interlocking each other's lips, that can count as well. So we don't have to. It doesn't have to be a strict definition of it. But we decided to start making out and we made this little guideline that like, we're just gonna make out every night before bed. And we've done that now for years. And it's been really, really fun to just have the space to carve out this little routine and to have it be a daily thing. For me, if I'm doing something daily, it's so much easier for me to build a routine out of it than every once in a while.

Did you just say every night for years you've been doing this?

Yeah, for years we've been doing this. Okay, so most nights it's 10 to 30 seconds. If we're really tired, it's like a little bit of tongue contact. Okay, we're done. We have fun with it, but, you know, so some nights it might be a little bit longer, but on average it's like 10 to 30 seconds. And one other thing that I think is really important about this is a lot of couples in long term relationships, you start only making out as an initiation.

Yes.

During sex and we make this connection that, oh, if my partner's making out with me, that means they want sex. And so we shut ourselves down. Like, no, no, no, don't. Don't come in for me. Don't touch me, don't kiss me. I don't want it to, like, lead to more. And so I wanted to break that connection. I think that can be really powerful for so many couples. Like, break the connection that any sort of touch or any sort of kissing is supposed to lead to sexual. Because a lot of couples in long term relationships say, like, yeah, we just. We don't kiss, we don't touch. We only have physical contact when we're right about to have sex or in the middle of having sex. And we all miss it so much. So this is just a nice way to like, bring some of that back into our relationship. And now it just feels like this sweet, special thing that we do every night. And it feels really intimate and bonding. And the vast majority of times it does not lead to sex. We just get to enjoy the makeout for the makeout's sake.

What if you're in an argument? Do we never go to bed mad at the Marin house?

Or we take. No, we go to bed mad and we're so pissed.

But we're definitely making out.

We're definitely making out. Even though we're. Some people took the rule part of it a little bit too strongly. I'm like, no, if I'm pissed at him, I'm not making out with him. If he's sick or I'm sick, I'm.

Get out of here.

I'm not kissing you.

We're just using like our. Our logic here.

Yes. So I'm not a believer in don't go to bed angry. There are lots of. I, I need to go to bed angry. And if I've had some time and some space and a good night of sleep, I can come back to an argument and be in such a better place. We can resolve it so much faster versus, I mean, I've had. We've definitely had plenty of experiences where we were trying to solve something at night. And it's like hours will go by and you're exhausted and crankier and just wanting to go to sleep. So I think that's some of the worst advice.

Wonderful conflict.

I wouldn't have slept in years if I didn't go to bed angry. Can you imagine? Last time I went to bed was three and a half years ago. I have a question. Since one unrepresented population on this podcast is heterosexual men, other than what you've told us in prior episodes about men, really do, in the majority, want to please their partners and want their partners to be having a really great experience. What is another thing that you hear very frequently from heterosexual men about what their fear is or what their unspoken truth is that we don't know about them?

Oh, there are so many. I mean, a big one that comes to mind is this idea that men always want and they always should want it more. We've polled our Instagram audience, and in male female relationships, and 45%, the woman was the one who wants sex more. But it's another thing that doesn't get talked about. So there are a lot of men who feel very ashamed about not wanting sex more often than they do or having a female partner who wants sex more often than they do, even though it's incredibly normal and common.

And may I add that women in those relationships feel very ashamed, too.

Oh, deeply ashamed.

I had a relationship like that where I was the rejected party, and no women talk about that. And it's really, really hard place to be. You feel broken and then doubly broken because literally no one admits to this.

You know, Absolutely.

Okay, so that is a really good.

That's. Yeah, that's one. Another good one is that men want to experience emotional connection during sex, too. I mean, we talked about this a little bit in our third episode about, you know, men don't want to just, you know, let you have sex with them. Like, they want to have an emotional, connected, intimate experience again. It's like this idea of, like, oh, men will just take whatever they can get. They just want the orgasm. They're just horny. But men want to feel close and vulnerable and intimate as well. And a lot of men tell me, like, it feels tiring to have my partner treat me like. Like all I want is just this physical release when I'm trying to feel this closeness with them.

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What are some things that we can do in our everyday life to increase or get us into good sex bodies? Are there foods we can eat that will make us more excited?

Do oysters work?

Yeah. Does exercise increase libido? What are things that can help us increase our sex drives?

So the most important things that will increase your sex drive are the trickier things, the making sure you're having enjoyable sex, making sure you're feeling emotionally connected to your partner and I. And the top three one is also making sure you're not in pain. There's so many women in particular who experience pain. So those are the three biggies. Of course, people are always more curious about the things that are a little more straightforward, like, can I just eat the oysters?

Is there a Vanessa supplement?

Is there a pill is what I'm looking for.

Is there a fucking pill?

No. So maybe you might get the little teeniest tiniest hit of desire from an aphrodisiac, but it's really going to be more the placebo effect. You thinking like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to get this oyster and get turned on and in the mood. And foods, supplements, those things just, I mean, if you want to eat oysters, go for it. But it's not going to have this huge effect on your sex drive in general, though. Like, treating your body with care and respect is going to increase your sex drive. So if that means there are certain foods that make you feel more connected to yourself or a certain way of eating that feels good for you, then that's gonna be great. If there's a certain way of moving your body that makes you feel connected to yourself, makes you feel, feels sexy, it feels good to move that way. That's amazing. And I always want to say, like, the idea of, you know, exercising or needing your body to look a certain way in order to have great sex or to have a high sex drive is just not accurate. Like people of any body shapes and sizes can experience pleasure and deserve to Experience pleasure.

And it's so interesting, that concept, because you know what? Diet culture and porn culture has taught us that. Oh, no, no. If there's, like, a body, we can build that. That from the outside, that will make us sexier. I'm doing a lot of work right now on embodiment because of my eating disorder recovery. And I don't know how exactly to say this other than I'm working more on my sex life when I am in a conversation and I'm saying, like a conversation with somebody I barely know and I'm saying, oh, hold on a second. What you just said feels weird to me. Hold on a second. I'm feeling uncomfortable right now. Speaking something from the inside to the outside to a stranger is me working on my sex life like it's becoming embodied enough to speak my insides on the outside or to be aligned that way. That is what helps in the bedroom a million times more than a lifetime spent trying to shape my body into something that looks like it could be in a movie. It's the inner work. What is your take on porn and erotica? Because I feel like erotica for women is an untapped. Women should be reading erotica more. I don't even know what I'm saying. Does it feel like that is something that should be trending?

Put it on TikTok, Vanessa. If Vanessa puts it on TikTok, it will trend.

We'll have Abby narrate it.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

I did get a lot of DMs from people that I think would be interested in that. I'm just saying, little business idea, but I wanna go back to what you were saying about, you know, body and diet culture. I do think sex is also a way for us to overcome diet culture and all this crap that we've been taught to believe about our bodies. Like when we can reclaim the pleasure that we can experience. And the great thing about pleasure is, is it doesn't matter what your body looks like. You are capable of experiencing the same amount of pleasure with your body exactly how it looks right now. Your weight has no bearing on the amount of pleasure that you're capable of feeling. So being able to claim, like, this is my body, it's deserving of pleasure and exploring, like, what are all the ways that I can feel pleasure in this body that can help move us beyond these ideas of my body needs to look exactly like this. Okay. When it comes to erotica, I like to think of this as it's just a different kind of stimulation. So erotica if you're reading something, if you're listening to something, if you're watching something, it's just a different way of getting stimulation. And a lot of women will tell me, in particular with erotica, there's something about, like, written erotica, like, reading that feels like it opens up space in their brain. So one of the biggest concerns that women have is I can't. I can't be present in the moment. I'm thinking about my to do list. I'm thinking about all this other stuff I have to do. Like, I can't shut my brain off and just be present with my partner. So erotica can be a nice transition time where we are reading something. It's giving our brains something to do, but it's a sexy thing to do. So we're getting that stimulation and we're helping our brain kind of like wind down and get more into the moment so it's not this abrupt. Like, I'm running around all day constantly thinking of all the things, and then I'm supposed to get into sex and all of a sudden shut my brain off and not think about any of the things. It's like this nice little wind down moment.

It's more all encompassing than, like, to some people. To me, like, that's why, like, listening. Abby loves listening to a book, and lots of people do. For me, I like reading because it's. It's all my senses. It's like I can listen to something. I'm still doing a million other things, but, like, when I'm reading, I have to be right there. And that is like, the presence that sex requires. So it makes sense that that would.

Be write a book.

A bridge.

Write an erotic book.

I want to write a sexy romance lesbian novel.

Why don't you?

I think that's a great idea.

Okay, I'll read it.

You can read the audiobook. Can you imagine me trying to read it?

And erotica can also give you ideas too. You can read with your partner. Like, let me read you this, this scene. Or, ooh, I really like what they did here. It was very interesting. Or, oh, I've never thought about doing this before. What do you think of this scene right here? So it gives you some inspiration too, huh?

Do you have any good recommendations on erotica books?

So I have just finished reading the A Court of Thorn and Roses series. I was having so many people ask me for my professional opinion on it. It got super popular. It was really big on book talk. So I finished reading that series and I definitely found it to be really interesting. It's kind of like very. A lot of fantasy, almost a much more simplified version of Game of Thrones thing, but, like, some, you know, just more sexy elements mixed in. So I thought that was interesting, and a lot of people have told me they really enjoyed it, so it could be worth reading.

In closing, what would you say is the. The question that people ask you the most as a very trusted voice in this world that when you answer, it can do the most good for them in their lives? Like, what's the question that you can free people the most quickly by answering?

I love that question. It's really the simplest one. Am I normal? So many of us just feel so alone in whatever it is that we're going through. And even the most simple things, like, am I alone in wishing sex is a little bit slower? Am I alone in being turned on by my partner kissing all over my neck? That question is just. It's one that gives us so much shame, so much anxiety. This fear, you know, comes up so strongly for us. So just being able to share with people, like, whatever it is that you're going through, I promise you, you're not alone. And even if it's something that you don't love or you wish was different about your sex life, like, there are ways to address it, to talk about it, to transform it. I think just starting with that basic reality of, like, you're not alone and it's okay.

Beautiful, beautiful. Vanessa Marin, thank you so much. We adore you. Everybody go pick up sex talks. You won't regret it. And Pod Squad, you are normal and we love you.

That means you are, too, honey.

Well, we'll see.

You are.

Just don't be out here letting the Christian missionaries dictate what you do in your bedroom.

All right?

Don't let them win.

That was never about God, and it was never about sex.

Okay, catch you next time.

Bye.

POD Squad, If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do each or all of these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this. This, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod while you're there. If you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much.

Much.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlisle.

I walked through fire I came out the other side? I chased desire? I made sure I got what's mine? And I continue to believe? That I'm the one for me? And because I'm mine I walk the line? Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map Our final destination we lack We've stopped asking directions? Some places they've never been? And to be loved we need to be known Time we'll finally find a way back home? And through the joy and pain that our lives bring? We can do a hard thing? I hit rock bottom it felt like a brand new start? I'm not the problem? Sometimes things fall apart? And I continue to believe the best, the best people are free? And it took some time but I'm finally fine? Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks? Our map our final destination we lack we stopped at asking directions to places they've never been? And to be loved we need to be known? We'll finally find our way back home? And through the joy and pain that our lives bring? We can do hard. And heartbreak? So ma, we might get lost but we're okay with that? You've stopped asking directions to places they've never been? And to be loved we need to be known? We'll finally find our way way back home? And through the joy and pain that our lives bring? We can do hard things? Yeah, we can do hard things? Yeah, we can do hard things?

Sam.