E223: Sex After Baby: Postpartum Sex, Intimacy & Desire

Our baby was born almost 11 months ago and we still have not been intimate. At this point, I almost feel awkward a little bit about initiating anything because I feel so disconnected. I think he feels the same. It's just like the elephant in the room. Now how do we go about getting a spark back? I've been feeling really different down there and I'm scared I might be too loose for sex now.

I really enjoy you reading the questions.

My partner says it's fine, but I can't help worrying that he notices something's changed. Is this normal? And will things ever feel the same again? Pre pregnancy nipple stimulation was a huge turn on for me.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm also, you know, I'm also postpartum babe.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. The postpartum stage is one of the hardest things that a couple can go through. You've just had this incredible life changing experience of pregnancy and child and now you're having to adjust to all these enormous changes. And I think we often talk about the postpartum phase as snapping back or, you know, getting back to normal. And the truth is there is no normal. Like, everything in your relationship feels like it is different. We turned to our Instagram community and we asked couples what came up for you in the postpartum stage. And boy, did you guys have a lot to say. We heard a lot of things like, I feel really resentful of my partner. And I think this is one of the challenges in male, female couples is that as much as you might want to share the responsibilities, share the load, be teammates, you literally can't. Like, a baby relies on its mother in a way that it does not rely on its father. Like, there is no way that the father can do an equal amount or.

At the very least, like, there are very specific set of things that the father just cannot do. Do to limitations of his body.

Yeah, those nipples aren't making any milk. They're useless little nipples. There's also mental load imbalances. Just feeling, you know, one partner feeling like, I'm carrying the weight of all this stuff. I'm remembering all the things that need to be done. Being tired all the time, I think just pure exhaustion. It's hard for anybody to function at their best when you're exhausted. And I think postpartum is still just a brand new level of exhaustion that most people have never experienced before in their lives.

Especially then when you also lay in gender differences when it comes to. Sorry, I said, I said lay in. When you layer in gender differences when it comes to sleep needs. And like, typically men require fewer hours of sleep in order to operate, especially like once you're at sort of childbearing age. You remind me of that a lot. When it comes to sleep, women need more sleep. Many studies have shown that men are able to operate adequately. I'm not going to say thrive, but like operate adequately with fewer hours of sleep than women can. And then that's kind of like a cruel twist of fate when it comes to having a kid because it's like very often it can feel like the thing. The person that the child needs in the middle of the night is not the father, but the mother.

There's also being touched out, which is another thing that there are huge imbalances in. I mean, there's literally a tiny little being relying on your body for sustenance, like touching you on top of you all the time. There's being scared to have sex again. Yeah, this is, I think one of the greatest disservices that we do to mothers is that we have this whole idea of the six week checkup where you go to your doctor, they say, okay, cool, you're cleared to have sex again. And most women feel horrified by this. The idea of going back to normal and starting to have sex again after six weeks just feels incomprehensible. So I wanna take a quick little side note to say that six week timeline is very arbitrary. There's actually very little science medicine research behind. Definitely does not apply to all women. And oftentimes what it really means is, okay, you won't die if you have intercourse.

You're not gonna have to come back to me for another appointment because you messed something up.

But it does not mean you're not gonna. You're going to feel desire for it. It's going to be pleasurable sex, it's.

Going to be a good thing for your relationship. It does not mean that. And I mean, shoot, we might as well just end the podcast right here because that piece of information applies to so many of the questions that we're going to talk about later on.

It really does. But yeah, I think a lot of women just feel surprised by and unprepared for how scared they are of sex. And it just feels really difficult to imagine getting back into the saddle with your partner. Also, there's being scared to get pregnant again. I just saw a reel the other day of some woman saying, you know, she's four, three or four months postpartum and like finding out that they're already pregnant again. And it was just this look of horror and shock on her face, like, oh my God, I can't restart this whole process just a few months after finishing it. So that can be a big thing that comes up. Of course, for so many women, their body doesn't feel like their own anymore, so it's hard to reconnect with it. And again, you've gone through a huge journey. Ten months of growing a life in your body, your body completely changing, not feeling like your own anymore, another life being dependent on your body. It just, it's very easy to feel very disconnected from yourself. A lot of women also tell us, I don't feel sexy anymore. Like, I don't, you know, I don't feel comfortable in my own skin, I don't feel confident in my body. I don't feel connected to my sense of desire or desirability. So it feels very difficult to get back in the saddle again. And then there's also just the general sense of having to change your roles, especially if this is your first child. The transition of going from partners, just the two of you to parents is a huge one. And again, I think most parents are really unprepared for that. And trying to find your way back to each other when there's now another person in the picture can be very, very challenging. So today we are getting into all postpartum questions. We put a question box up on Instagram and asked, how can we help? What advice do you need? What are you going through? And there are so many interesting stories for us to get into and we're here to give you our honest judgment, free and expert backed answers. So if you're new here. Hi, I'm Vanessa. I'm a sex therapist. I have 20 years of experience in this field and I've heard pretty much every question there is to be asked about sexual.

I'm Xander, I'm her husband. I'm not a sex therapist, but I've been doing this with Vanessa for so long that I've heard almost pretty much every question out there as well. And I'm always learning all the time, but I like to kind of bring the everyday, everyday partner, everyday guy experience to things, plus a little bit more because I've been around the block.

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All right, let's get into it. Our first one. This is get not.

Oh, shoot. I totally blew the lead on this one.

I know you. You really did. That's. That's why I was joking. That's why I was like, you might as well just wrap up right here.

I looked at these questions. I, like, helped prep this episode a couple of weeks ago and I forgot that that was the first question.

That's okay.

I read again.

You know, I, I read all the questions right before this and I was, I was like, there's going to, I mean, I mean, look like, bottom line, with this type of stuff, There are going to be a couple themes to what you hear us talking about today. There are some. I know that this is. These are really tough, challenging things. And they're tough and they're challenging and that sucks. And it's hard. And also there are some very simple things that you can be doing and talking about and thinking about on an ongoing basis to either to lessen the challenge of these things or to prevent them in the first place from becoming a big challenge. So that's great news. Let's get into the first question. All right. I just got medically cleared for sex at my six week appointment. My husband was thrilled, but I just don't feel ready. Is it normal to feel nervous about it? Do I need to just push through?

Okay, there we go. So I already had my rant about how the six week appointment is really very arbitrary. And this is a perfect example of why. I think that this appointment often sets couples up for failure. Like, the couple goes into it, the husband, husband's like, great, okay, we can go back to sex, everything's normal again.

Yeah. Dog said we can fuck.

And it's also so challenging because as the husband or the, you know, the male partner, you haven't gone through the experience of childbirth.

Yeah.

So you cannot understand what it's like. Right. And you're coming at it from this perspective of like, hey, oh my God, it's been six weeks. And it probably has been longer than six weeks because most people don't have sex, like right up until the baby's born. So I sympathize with male partners in this situation. Like, it's been a while. You're like, I'm ready to reconnect with.

My partner, especially because it's very likely. Let's just, I'm, you know, use brush, broad brushstrokes here. If you are like most couples in this situation, you have not talked about this very much. You haven't really talked very much about the fact that it's been at the very least six weeks since you've had sex. Much more, much more likely it's been longer. Probably what has happened is you've had some sex during pregnancy and maybe it's trailed off at the end. But you never really talked about it. It's more like, I just like, I feel gross or like, you know, I don't feel good. And it's, you've gotten into this assumed area of we're not having sex. Okay. We're not having sex. I assume makes perfect sense because my wife's really pregnant. Okay, now we're not having sex because I've been told that we are not allowed to for six weeks. Following. The problem is that like the medical profession basically sets men's expectations with this whole six week thing on top of the fact that most of these men haven't had an honest conversation with their partner or their partner hasn't had an honest conversation with them. Like, neither have. In the lead up of, like, how are things really feeling with your body? What does the idea of sex even sound like? And so it's just like setting things up for disaster when you get that okay. From the doctor. So sorry, continue on. I wanted to set that stage because I think that that is like we're talking to the 90 couples that are that are in that situation six weeks after pregnancy.

And also I want to remind everybody that sex is not just a physical act. This is not just a horn dog husband. Like, I can't wait to get some more.

Like, because he could get some with his hand like whenever he wants.

Sex is about connection, us feeling close to each other, us feeling important to each other. So yeah, I understand the perspective of the partner thinking like, great, we're cleared, good to go. And I also completely sympathize with the person who's just given birth of like, I do not feel ready. So I hope hearing my little side note at the top of the episode feels validating and helps you understand it is totally normal and very common to not feel ready at six weeks. So now the question is like, do I need to push through? I would say no. I think it's important to be really gentle with yourself to recognize that childbirth, it's a beautiful, special miracle. And it's also a tremendous trauma to the body, a huge trauma to the body.

And it could in varying degrees, depending on how the pregnancy goes, what procedures happened, all kinds of stuff. Like it can be some kind of trauma to a real, real, real major trauma.

And it can be an emotional and mental trauma too, not just physical. So I think it's really important for you to be gentle with yourself to what you have just been through. Now that being said, I think there are ways to ease back into it. So if, okay, first of all, let me just say if you're experiencing any sort of pain or discomfort that needs to be dealt with with a pelvic floor physical therapist or pelvic pain specialist. I think we have some other questions about that. So we'll get into that more later. So let's just say you're not experiencing any pain like Things actually are medically fine, but it's just that, you know, that nervousness and that fear. What I recommend in that sit situation is to really ease your way back into intimacy. So many couples, especially male, female couples, and especially when it's been a while since you've had sex, we get it in our heads that the only way to like break the dry spell or, you know, break the streak is to have intercourse. We really default to intercourse. It's like the main event, the home run, the rounding the bases, gotta go.

All in, gotta do it all.

But that can feel very intimidating to somebody who is postpartum. So rather than thinking of it as this black or white all or not, think about other ways of connecting physically. And you can start very small. Maybe it's just naked cuddling, maybe it's some making out. Maybe it's taking a shower together and like touching all over each other's bodies. Then maybe you can work your way up to using your hands on each other or using a toy on each other. Then maybe you work your way up to oral sex with each other. And then maybe you work your way up to intercourse. And even then, once you're starting to have intercourse, can you go really slow and gentle then where it's like, we're not doing doggy style, we're not doing jackhammering, it's like, you know, we're doing missionary and it's very slow. We're doing very subtle movements. We're like really trying to hold each other.

Maybe it's even getting your partner, your male partner really close before starting the intercourse. So it's like, yeah, two minutes of intercourse. This is going to be quick. Let's just, just so that, you know, you get to have the experience. I get to have the experience of just seeing what this is like, knowing that my partner can one, go slow and two, come quickly. Yeah, like, like let's, let's lower, like let's really lower the stakes.

So, yeah, bottom line is that any form of physical intimacy counts as intimacy. We don't need to set intercourse as the gold standard. The only thing that we need to do to, to start being intimate again.

Another huge benefit to that approach that you just outlined is that that approach doesn't have to be confined to the six week timeline. Like there's no rule that says you can't kiss or make out or cuddle naked with your partner in the first six weeks postpartum. Right now, you know, I don't know when it comes to like external stimulation, like maybe you Just want to avoid that altogether. But I mean, I think probably up to you. Word. The six week thing has to do with, with internal penetration. Right. But that's how like it's, it's not, you know, it's like if, if you are wanting to use a toy on your clitoris, like I think have at it.

Yeah. But unless you have like stitches or you have a really. Yeah, anything like that.

Yeah. But I mean, I think that this just gets at like. Yeah, I mean this gets at. When we don't talk about it and we just go with these sort of assumptions. It often ends up being like we have had. Had no, no legitimate physical intimacy during six to who knows how many weeks before, you know, before the pregnancy. And, and, and as a result, you're both lacking some amount of physical and emotional connection. And. Yeah, so it's just like, so it's so much easier to do this if you are in more communication down before even like at the very beginning of pregnancy talking about setting expectations. Hey, this is gonna be a thing.

Yeah.

Once we have the baby, this six weeks thing, it's bullshit. Let just. You're gonna hear the doctor talk about it. We are going to ignore that. Like we are gonna be, we are gonna do this based on our actual experience, what we are actually feeling like. And because of that, it's so important for us to try to maintain some amount of physical and emotional connection throughout the whole thing that's gonna make it so much easier to get back into. You know, I don't even want to say to the sex life you used to have, because the reality is you're not going to have the sex life you used to have. No, you are. You have an opportunity to create a new one, but you have an opportunity to create a better, newer one faster if you can maintain some kind of thread of that throughout.

Yeah. So yeah, I would say talk to your husband about this and let him know, like, hey, I want to reconnect with you and validate that, you know, sex is about more than just getting off. So I want to reconnect with you. I want to feel close to you again. And I'm finding myself feeling really nervous about it. I think that's actually an incredible opportunity for bonding and connection and vulnerability.

Yeah. So I mean, I just gave a lot of tips for like how to avoid this from the very jump. But to someone who is in this situation right now, like a week ago they had the six week appointment and they're like, oh shoot, my husband really wants to have sex. The doctor said we could, but I don't feel up for it. Yeah, like you just said, Vanessa, I think it's so important to you can, you can still say, hey, you know what I realized I've been thinking about this and I've come to realize we didn't talk about this enough. You just take responsibility for yourself. I did not talk to you enough about this postpartum. I didn't talk to you enough about this leading up, you know, during the pregnancy. And I'm, and I'm starting to realize I'm doing some research, I'm talking to friends, I'm listening to, you know, other people talk about their experiences. And I am realizing this six week thing is a purely a physical thing. It doesn't take into account, like, emotional readiness. It doesn't take into account other physical factors like pain. It's like, it's like a physical I won't die thing. And that's really all it is. And here's my reality and I, I want to share with you what this feels like. Because the reality is if you are able to share your experience with your partner, your partner is a good person and they are not going to want to be like, like, oh, wow, you're feeling really unready. Yeah. You just need to push yourself through the pain.

Yeah, I certainly hope not.

If, if they say that that's a serious issue and that that's a whole other thing that you're going to have to deal with, but that's not what we're talking about in this question. You know, I'm going to assume your partner is a good partner, doesn't want you pushing through pain. They do care about the long term health of their sex life. They are going to be motivated to do things or make changes to their expectations in order to set themselves up for a more successful sex life as soon as possible, rather than causing a lot of pain or even trauma short term, that's gonna screw their sex life up forever. All right, shall we move on?

All right.

Okay. When I was pregnant, we were not intimate much. Since I was sick constantly. I think we only did the deed twice during my pregnancy. Our baby was born almost 11 months ago and we still have not been intimate. At this point, I almost feel awkward a little bit about initiating anything because I feel so disconnected. I think he feels the same. It's just like the elephant in the room. Now how do we go about getting a spark back?

I really wanted to include this question because it's so common, but a lot of couples who experience this really feel like they're the only ones who went through this. I do think that there's this belief that during pregnancy a lot of women get way hornier and there's like a lot of like hot pregnancy sex. But I don't have any actual statistics on this. But just anecdotally, I feel like I've heard from so many women who said I had zero sex drive. Like, I was just waiting to hit that second trimester, or maybe it's the third trimester, like, when are the hormones gonna make me super horny? But that never happened.

Yeah, I think it does for some people.

Yeah, it does for some people. And it really does not for other people.

It probably does does a lot for some people. It does nothing for others. And for others it goes the other direction.

Yeah, so it's very, very normal to not have very much intimacy when you're pregnant. And it's also very normal to have a pretty long dry spell after you have a child. There was a post that was circling around a while back that was saying, I'm not sure if it's referencing an actual research based poll or if it was more of like a casual thing like what we do on our Instagram polls, but it was saying on average, women say that it takes them two years to get back to feeling sexual, feeling like themselves after having a child.

I'm really not surprised to hear that given how little I know that most couples do take the advice that we are talking about of like being in communication from this, about this from the beginning, beginning slowing things down, prioritizing other forms of intimacy, realizing that like, the intimacy is not just intercourse, that there's all kinds of emotional and physical intimacy that can be practiced throughout the entire thing whether you are having intercourse or not. And so, yeah, I'm not surprised that it takes two years because a lot of people, they are already physically and emotionally traumatized by the birth. And then they, they further traumatize themselves. Whether it's pushing themselves through pain, just pushing themselves through like emotional, not readiness, feeling like they're kind of like breaking their own boundaries but they're not able to state them, or just avoiding it all together and creating a situation where, you know, no one's talking about the elephant in the room. So I'm really not surprised by this. I think that, that if everybody were to listen to this podcast and do the things that we are recommending before you get pregnant all the way through, I think that that number would be so, so, so much lower for the Vast majority of people.

Okay, so what do we do about having a dry spell that has been going on over a year? So actually some of the advice that I gave in the last answer applies here. Like let's, let's stop thinking of intercourse as the be all, end all and let's instead ease our way back into being intimate. Let's really just like lower the bar, lower the pressure, lower the expectations. And I think that one thing that you can do to make it feel even easier is to focus on our get intimacy technique. So Xander and I are all about being practical, doing things that feel simple and easy, but give you the maximum bang for your buck. So we developed this technique based on three research backed tools that help create more intimacy. So G, E, T. The Get Intimate technique. It stands for three different things. The G stands for gratitude, E for eye contact, and T for touch. So gratitude is not even a physical thing, but it does really help create more intimacy and more connection. So that's literally just once a day telling your partner something you're grateful for about them, something that you saw them do, just something you appreciate about them. The E is eye contact, which is a really interesting one because it is physical in a way, but it doesn't involve any touch. But just making eye contact with each other, you'll be shocked by how big of an impact that can make. And then the T is the touch. And again, this is all about being super simple. So there are actually two types of touch in particular that we recommend. One is a 30 second hug and the other is a six second kiss, which is the exact timeframes that research shows it takes our body to release oxytocin, the bonding hormone. So doing a 30 second hug and a six second kiss once a day takes you 36 seconds. Not a big deal at all. But it really creates a lot more intimacy and connection. So using the get Intimate technique can be a really great way to just create this foundation of more connection and help make it feel easier to start reconnecting with each other. But again, I'd really focus on other types of touch. Like just be more touchy with each other. Don't even think about, oh my God, we've got to start having sex with each other again. We have to start having intercourse with each other again. Just think about trying to touch each other more often. More hugs, more holding hands, more cuddling on the couch, more like grazes as you pass them. Like just start there and ease your way back into it.

And you know, you've also recognized that this Feels like an elephant in the room. I think the quickest way to dismantling that feeling of elephant in the room is literally just acknowledging it and talking about it. And I think that you could use a lot of the same language that you've used in asking this question to get vulnerable with your partner, because getting vulnerable will actually increase the feeling of intimacy between you two. And you can say, hey, you know what I'm realizing it has been a long time since we've been physically intimate, and I'm really missing that. And I'm realizing that feels awkward because it's been so long, and I want to initiate something, but I feel like I don't know how or I forgot how because of how long it's been. And I just want you to know how important you are to me, how important intimacy is to me, and how I want to work on this. And, you know, and then you could start to suggest some of the things that Vanessa's already talked about. About, like, you know, I think, like, you know, it might be really helpful for us to just think about slowly working some physical intimacy in rather than feeling like it's this all or nothing thing, because that's that, you know, that that can be a high bar. Like, let's focus on using this get method. Let's take intercourse off the table. Let's just focus on kissing each other and making out. And then let's slowly start incorporating more activities in. And that can be a much easier way to get yourselves back into the saddle and not feel like the only way out of this is I have to initiate this wild, passionate, crazy sexual experience that breaks the dry spell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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All right, our next question. I don't know how to get back to us now that we have a baby. All my energy and attention is on the baby. It feels like we're two ships passing in the night most of the time, and we're both just so exhausted between caring for baby, both working full time and doing normal tasks like cooking, laundry, etc. How do we reprioritize us?

This is probably something that every single parent out there can relate to. It's what I was talking about earlier about the just like adjusting to these new roles and to how much your life has changed. All of your usual things. It just feels like nothing in your previous life, you know, is what your life is like now. So again, I'm all about being very practical and reasonable. And I think it's important to recognize having a baby is a very challenging season for a couple of years. This is not gonna be the season of your relationship where you are the closest, the most connected you've ever been. You're not gonna be like dashing off to couples retreats or reading couples books or listening to podcasts every day, like.

Last minute holiday this weekend.

Yeah, I think most couple. That was very British of you, Holiday. Holiday. That's a terrible British accent. I'm so sorry to any British listeners. Okay. I think that most couples are gonna be in pure survival mode. And it's important to acknowledge and recognize that some seasons of life are just about survival. And that's okay. That really just is life. So what I think about in situations like these are, what are the smallest things that we feel like we realistically, reasonably can do? So the GET technique is another great option here. You can do those three things in under 60 seconds a day.

Like.

Like everybody can find 60 seconds. And those three things truly will make such a big impact on your relationship, I promise you. So, you know, it's doing stuff like that. I also think that creating little rituals or routines can be really beneficial in these kinds of situations. There's a saying in business that, like, we only fail to the level of our system. Like whatever systems that we have in place, like, that's what we fall back on right. It's like the systems are the things that protect us. And I think the same thing can be said for relationships. If you don't have routines or rituals in place, then it's very easy for everything to just go haywire. So can you create some sort of little routine that again feels reasonable? It's not a huge hours long thing. But if you create it into a routine, you ritualize it in some way where it's like, we do this every Wednesday or every morning we do this, I think that makes it so much more powerful and easy to stick to. So could it be something like every night before bed we say three things that we're grateful for about each other or every morning when we first wake up, we spend 30 seconds holding hands or that's when we do our six second makeout or you know, we're both working from home. So at 12 o' clock on the dot, no matter what else is going on, we find each other and we do a hug at that point, you know, just creating some sort of routine around it can make it easier to fall back on.

Even working in one of the routines that could also be really helpful is adding some kind of relationship check in, whether that's once a week, once a month, giving yourself a container or a space to be able to talk about how you feel about your emotional and physical connection. It's like creating the ritual that you are able to talk about that. And I think a lot of people avoid that because they are concerned that, oh well, that means that then we're going to be like having to talk about how disconnected we feel. But yeah, you might talk about that at times. But the whole point of having that is to show is to ritualize the idea that our relationship, our connection is important to us and that's why we check in about it. I think so many people, people fail to recognize that and go, oh well, that's just going to be awkward. Or it's just going to end up like we're going to feel more disconnected and it's like, well you, you are going to feel more disconnected if you guys are checking in and you're like, man, we're not doing anything for us and we're both feeling super disconnected and I guess we just don't matter to each other because, because we're not doing anything about it. Yeah, it's going to suck in that case. But I think that when you get two people who love each other that really care about each other other and you're committing to check in about this stuff. You are going to. You're going to find a way to do some things that are going to be good for you.

Yeah. And finally, I'll say acknowledge it. Too far too often, when we get into dry spells or seasons of disconnection, we often get very embarrassed and we just want to bury our heads in the sand and not acknowledge what's going on. Like, going back to the last question, who wants to acknowledge that you haven't had sex in over a year?

Right.

Like, it feels embarrassing. Embarrassing. But when you don't talk about it, it allows your partner to really spin out, wondering, do you like, does my partner notice? Do they care? Do they miss me? Are they totally fine with this? It really can make the situation feel so much worse. So just acknowledge it. You can say to your partner, hey, I know we are in pure survival mode right now. We've got this brand new baby. We don't know what we're doing. Life feels upside down. And I just want you to know I really miss you. And maybe we're not gonna be able to have a ton of sex right now. Maybe we just don't have the time or the energy to feel super connected. But I want you to know that this is not what I want for our relationship. I recognize that this is just a season, and I'm really looking forward to the next season where we'll have a little bit more space for us to reconnect.

That's great.

That can go such a long way.

Yeah. And I just. One more quick thing that came to mind. Mind. I would even reframe this idea of how do we get back to us as. How do we build a new us based on this new situation that we are in as parents? I think that when. If you are constantly coming at it from this context of how do we get back to the sex life that we had before? How do we get back to the relationship that we had before? How do we get back to the life that we had before? I hate to break it to you, but you're not. You're not going back to that. You now have a family. You have a complete. Your life is completely different. You are responsible for one or more human lives. You are parents now. You're not just partners. There's a whole new reality. You. You have so many more competing demands for your time. And so if you're. If the bar is, how do I get back to, you know, the. How do we prioritize our relationship the way that we used to? You're never going to be able to. There's never going to be enough time. Like, there's just not. So you're asking the wrong question. The question that you should be asking is based on this new reality that we are living in. What. What do we do to prioritize each other now given the limited time and resources that we have available to us? What do we do now? Not how could we possibly do what we didn't. The past. Because. Because you can't. So I think that's a much easier way to look at it. It's, it's lowering the bar for yourself and allowing yourself to really get honest and maybe start having those check ins where it's like, look, let's get really real. How much time do we have? Okay, you know, all right, we have negative time. So how do we carve out five minutes for us? Like how? Just let's start really low. But like, let's do something. Rather than being like, well, I can't possibly do what we used to do before, so I guess we're just in survival mode and we're were screwed for 15 years.

Yeah.

All right, switching gears. Since giving birth, I've been feeling really different down there and I'm scared I might be too loose for sex now.

I really enjoy you reading the questions.

My partner says it's fine, but I can't help worrying that he notices something's changed. Is this normal? And will things ever feel the same again?

So let's start with we women get a lot of bullshit socialization about the tightness and the looseness our vaginas. And it's really infuriating because we don't do this to men. It reminds me of like one of my all time favorite memes, which shows three different sausages. And it's like, this is the penis of a virgin who has not been squished by vaginas. And then there's like this.

It's like a large fat sausage.

Large fat sausage. And then there's this like skinny little one. And it's like, this is a penis of a man who's had a lot of sex and his penis has been crushed by vagina. Like, it's so funny. You just like laugh thinking about it, but I'm like, this is what we do to women making us feel bad that, you know, having too much sex or too many partners, it's gonna make us lose. And the reality is with intercourse, it's about how two body parts fit together.

Yeah, it takes two to tango. No one's like, yeah, it's this idea that you can be too, like, too tight or too loose or whatever. Why is it so implies. It implies that all penises are the same size. Yeah. Which experience the same feeling. And I hate to break it you, but they don't.

Okay. So that's my little rant about that. Like, we really and truly do not need to be worried about the looseness of our vaginas.

Yeah. Instead, just be like, hey, bro, if it's too loose, I guess you're just too small.

Maybe your dick shrunk during my childbirth.

I'm joking, by the way. I'm joking. That might make a nice little clip for Instagram, though.

Okay, then. To make it more relevant to pregnancy and postpartum and all of that, it's also really important to recognize that the vagina is capable of an incredible amount of stretching and of going back to normal afterwards, even during intercourse or penetration. Like, our vagina really can change in size, in shape. It's so freaking cool. And it goes back to normal. So that is literally the purpose of the vagina. That is how it is designed, is to go back to normal. That being said. Said I said earlier that pregnancy and birth, they are a trauma to the body.

They're really testing the limits.

Yeah, you can have tears, you can have pain issues. I'm not a doctor, so I want to be really careful in saying, like, I'm not giving any sort of medical advice here, but if you genuinely are concerned, like, something feels really different for you. You experience pain, you experience discomfort. I definitely recommend finding one of two different professionals. Professionals. A pelvic floor physical therapist or a pelvic pain specialist. Somebody who really specializes in the pelvic floor, understands the nuances of it. There are things that you can do if there truly is an issue. But in general, for the vast majority of people, your vagina is just fine. And don't let all this crappy socialization make you feel worried about it.

Also, if your partner says it's fine, fine. It's fine.

Trust your partner. Yeah. Believe your.

Yeah. What's. Yeah. Like, what is coming up for you that you are not feeling able to trust your partner right now. And I think that might be some. Like, if you are finding yourself. Man, I cannot get that thought out of my head. Like, that might be something to get in some individual therapy to talk about, because, yeah, like, that. That is a. That. That is an anxiety that can absolutely take you out and it can take your sex life out, and that would suck. That. That would really suck. But That's a. It's a. It's an insidious thought. Maybe I'm not good enough for my partner, even though he is telling me that is not the case. He hasn't done anything to show me that that's the case.

Yeah.

You know, you. You. You owe it to yourself and you definitely owe it to your partner to not allow that type of thinking to. To poison your relationship.

Yeah.

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All right. I'm currently eight weeks postpartum. I had a significant third degree tear during my delivery and just a tough recovery overall. I was cleared at six weeks and we tried once but it was not successful. I had a hard time not thinking about my tear and how my vagina felt. Husband was worried about hurting me.

Okay, so good story.

Good, good lesson to all you out there who are about to hit those six weeks just because they tell you it's okay. It's not hunky dory.

Yeah, I mean, I'M not clear from this question if the person was experiencing physical pain or it was more the mental anxiety of like, is this gonna hurt? Is this gonna hurt? Is this gonna hurt?

Yeah. And husbands also. Also worried. Both partners are worried.

Yeah. I'm glad that the husband got brought up because I think so often, I think women really think that, like, men don't care.

Yeah.

They're just unfortunately. Yeah. But like, you know, most people, like, unless you've got a real lemon of a partner, like he cares about your experience and that can be really, you know, he's going through his own experience. That can be really challenging to know, like, oh, my God, my partner's been in pain. They've gone through something gnarly like, I don't want to do anything to, to cause pain to my partner.

Yeah. And I think most of the situations where men give that impression of not caring it is because they do not have access to all the information from the partner. Something is being held back. Something has not been clearly discussed. Someone thinks, oh, I made this offhanded mention of something three months ago and he's not remembering right now. Like it was crystal clear. Even though we never talked about, about it again. I think that, yeah, when we give our partners all the information and we talk about it regularly, if you have a good partner that you should be with long term, they should care about you. If they have all the information and you're talking about it on an ongoing basis and they don't give a shit, that's not the partner for you.

I'm also concerned. Again, I'm not a doctor, so I truly don't know. But to have, have a third degree tear and then be cleared at six weeks seems a little wild. So I wonder if it just might be. You just purely need more time. So if you are experiencing any sort of pain or discomfort, like I was saying for the last question, I would definitely find pelvic floor physical therapist or a pelvic pain specialist or even just.

Get a second opinion from the doctor. But even, I mean, who cares about the opinion? It sounds like you don't feel ready.

Yeah.

And your partner might not even feel ready ready. So don't put the pressure on.

So I would, I would fall back on the other tips that we've already shared about like, easing your way back into intimacy, deprioritizing intercourse, like finding other ways of connecting. And you might also find it helpful to do some therapy around if there is like a mental fear of like, I'm really scared about the tear. I'm scared of hurting it again. I'm scared of, you know, breaking it back, opening, whatever it is. Like some therapy might help as well and especially when you're attempting any sort of penetration. So I would start with fingers.

You could also maybe even using your own fingers or a toy so that you are in full control.

I would start with exploring your own body with a ton of lube. Lube is really, really helpful. I mean, we recommend lube for all couples, but I can't believe we haven't said this yet. I know. God, that's weird. We always, to everyone else we talked.

About, about the 6. Lube, lube, lube, lube, lube, lube.

Okay. So I would definitely recommend using lube. I would use your fingers and I would use your fingers to explore yourself, to like go very slowly and gently, see how your body responds. What kind of sensation do you get? Are you experiencing any sort of pain or discomfort? And then once you feel more comfortable, maybe then start exploring with your partner's fingers. But again, it's all about going slow and really easing your way back into to it. Okay, I was curious. So I just have headed over to Chat GPT and typed in really quickly. Like how long on average does a third degree tear take to heal? Chat GPT says a full recovery can take six plus months.

Yeah, I would get a second opinion if you, if you've truly had a third degree tear. That seems like some questionable advice or, or even not. I'm not trying to, on your doctor, maybe even to trying. Just going back to the doctor and say, hey, I've been doing a little more research on third degree tears. I'm trying to understand like why specifically you cleared me at six weeks given that almost everything else I'm reading about says that the timeline is much longer. Was there something unique to my tear? Like, you know what, it's totally appropriate to ask a doctor, you know, why did you give me a certain piece of advice? I think very often in sort of like our, our, at least in the US our medical system, we have such short amounts of times with doctors that we very often we just get the advice from the doctor. They don't give the rationale and most people don't realize I can ask, tell me why you are, why you are advising me this and it's totally fine to go back to your doctor and say, hey, why, why did you make this it? Why did you advise me to do this given this, you know, this actual thing that you diagnosed me with? 3rd degree tear.

And again we're not do chachi. PT is not a doctor, but we are big advocates for being your own advocate with medical professionals. And bottom line, it doesn't matter if you're medically cleared. If you're not feeling ready, that's what matters.

Yeah. You're not emotionally cleared.

Yeah.

Only you can emotionally clear yourself. Maybe with the help of a therapist. If you can't get insidious thoughts out of your mind too. But it's like, it's like smokey. Only you can prevent forest fires. Only you can clear yourself emotionally for sexual.

That's true. It's really true.

All right, switching gears again. Pre pregnancy nipple stimulation was a huge turn on for me.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm also, you know, I'm also postpartum, babe. But post my preferences have changed. Mouth on nipple was a big key to getting me there. During pregnancy, all that changed. Nipples hurt most of the time. I struggled to breastfeed and ended up pumping quite a bit. Quite a bit. After stopping all that, things just never got back to normal. My nipples will be sensitive about 15% of the time. I like this very accurate estimation. Yeah, 15% of the time. But mostly they're just there. I'm two plus years postpartum. Any tips? I'm so sad to lose my nips. Crying emoji. Tears streaming emoji.

So first of all, I want to normalize that. This is a very common experience. And it's another thing that most women are not prepared for. This can also even happen during pregnancy too. Like nerves in your body, it just can feel different. And especially postpartum, when you're breastfeeding, when you're pumping, your breasts take on a different meaning. They're being used for a completely different purpose than they were before. So it's extremely common for women to feel like they don't feel sexual about their breasts anymore. Some women even say, like, I don't want my partner to touch them at all. Like it feels uncomfortable. You can have concerns about let during sexual activity. So some women are like so afraid of that that they just don't want their partner to touch. And you can also just have straight up desensitization. That can happen as well. So this is very, very common. There are a bunch of different reasons why it can happen. I mean, hormonal shifts can absolutely change it. You can have actual nerve desensitization from breastfeeding and pumping. This was something that I learned from my breastfeeding and pumping friends. Like, I didn't realize how rough it is on your nipples, it is gnarly. Your nipples, your whole breasts, they are taking a beating.

So I bet a lot of men out there don't realize that. I bet even a lot of men who are fathers don't even really know the half of what's actually happening with breastfeeding unless you share that with them.

And other things like your nipples can crack, you can get blocked ducks, you can even just like having them feel engorged. Like just so much happens to the breast. So it's very common for for nerves to just feel very different. So if you want to feel more sensation in your breasts again, you actually can train your body to resensitize. It's like your nerve endings have sort of blunted in a certain way because of the trauma. And it also can be a bit psychological as well. But we can focus on trying to, like, retrain your breasts to be more sensitive. So doing a little bit of breast play actually can be super helpful. So this is something that'd probably start on your own, but playing with things like very light touch, you can also incorporate things like maybe different kinds of fabrics or even like a little feather. And it's going to take some time, so for a while it's probably not going to feel like very much. But keep at it. Keep stimulating yourself. And over time, for the vast majority of women, like, that sensation does start to come back, but you have to train it back in. It's not just going to come back on its own. And also, if it is still lingering, it may be helpful to get some hormone testing too, just to see if anything is off in your system. Okay, so we wanted to just share one last story to wrap up this episode. When we posted the initial request for questions on Instagram, this woman reached out to us and left this really great message that I think would be beneficial for so many parents to hear. She wrote, your life ends having kids, but a new life begins. It's okay to feel grief and happiness at the same time. I struggled hard with not being able to just pick up and go whenever I wanted. I grieved my independence, but I also wouldn't change a thing. It doesn't make you a bad mom. Therapy helped me realize I cannot be perfect at everything on my plate. Between momming, wifing and working. My therapist had me tell her in detail what my definition of a successful day would be. And I started laugh crying not even halfway through because, like, it's not, not even possible. So give yourself grace. Also, advice for husbands. Perhaps you felt like my husband did where he wasn't as useful. He is, but I mean, in terms of breastfeeding, et cetera. Like, baby needs mama a lot and dads can do a lot of things, so get in there and learn. But sometimes my husband felt useless and never verbalized that, so I would feel resentful for the imbalance of what we were doing. After our second baby. He did vocalize this in a passive comment. And I realized I had an opportunity to express my needs that may also help help his take care of me so I can take care of baby.

Oh, that's good.

You are still so important. And I seriously can't take care of baby without also being taken care of, especially immediately postpartum. Also, I feel like that is a common theme in motherhood. Perhaps us moms complain about our husbands because we feel like we are running on empty when really our husbands just don't know how to help. And we feel so out of control in our own lives and bodies that we try to control little things like how the bottles are washed, et cetera, which can obviously come across as crazy critical. Overall in motherhood, I think we are feeling burnt out a lot and we take care of so many people all day. I just want to be able to melt when I see my husband and I know that he will take care of me. I know that's easier said than done. Just a safe place to listen and someone to just acknowledge the day we've had and the work. We just want to be seen. Put your arms around me and look me in the eye and just say, I'm so proud of you.

That's powerful.

Yeah.

All right, well, that is it for today's episode of Pillow Talk Talks. Thank you so much for listening and join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.