E230 How to Actually Enjoy Oral Sex (Without Overthinking It)

Does oral sex always have to be at the beginning? Do I have to orgasm from oral every time? It takes me so long and then I feel bad.

What if my partner is lying about enjoying it?

I don't know how to tell my partner to adjust how he's doing it. Any tips?

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Do you struggle to receive oral sex?

Me?

No, the listener.

Oh, you specifically.

A lady. A lady listener. Do you struggle to receive? If so, today's episode is for you. Because we are diving deep into some of the blockages that come up for us women around receiving oral sex. Because, trust me, there are a lot of them. So we are going to be sharing your stories. We put some question boxes up on Instagram and we got some fascinating responses back. So we're going to be sharing your stories, answering your questions, breaking down these really common challenges that come up, and giving you simple, practical tips to help you feel more confident and more connected when it comes to receiving oral sex. Because we think there's a lot to enjoy in this experience. We think there are a lot of women out there who are unnecessarily missing out on the incredible experience of receiving oral sex. So if you've ever felt nervous, self conscious, awkward, maybe just even unsure of how to, like, let go and fully enjoy oral, this episode is going to help you clear out those blocks and learn how to have more fun with foreplay.

Also, if you're a partner of someone who might be struggling to receive oral, you're maybe you guys don't do a lot of oral in your relationship. You're not really sure what their experience is. This is going to be a great episode for you to listen to to better understand the types of things that could be going on for them in ways that you can be a really great partner and support your partner in receiving oral sex. Or, you know, gently encourage your partner to be open to more oral sex. Because I do think that there are a lot of partners out there that would be loving to be giving more oral sex. Oral sex. Wow. I really wish to be giving more oral sex. Oral sex. But they are not because of a whole variety of factors which we'll get into in this episode. And speaking of having more fun with foreplay, we got something to share.

I am so excited about this. So this fall, we are unleashing our ultimate. I like unleashing. We are unleashing our ultimate foreplay experience. Okay, so here's the deal. We have had these ultimate foreplay guides for years.

Hands down best selling product.

It has always been since we released them, every single year, they have been our best selling, best reviewed product. And for a good reason. Like, we have gotten some incredible stories about these guides. They have given people their first ever orgasms, tears after sex, orgasms, even the kind of orgasms that leave your partner completely speechless afterwards. Those are some of my favorites.

And they've also helped a lot of people learn to love giving foreplay. Because. Because surprise. When you are confident in your technique, when you see the results in real time of how good the right techniques for your partner, can you build immediate confidence? And when you build confidence in something, you start to enjoy doing it. And so we have so many people that are like, oh yeah, foreplay used to just be like this thing that we would kind of like fumble around for 20 seconds, you know, like, you know, it was a means, a few little groups. Yeah, it was, it was a means to an end who are like, oh my God, I did not know that all of this other stuff was available. This stuff that we can spend more time on. It opens, you know, it just really opens up the playbook. So in terms of what is possible during sex and yeah, like so much more enjoyable stuff. So we're so happy that our foreplay guides have been this successful. So we're always thinking like, how, what, what else, what else can we do? What else can we do to make this an even better experience?

So we decided to create the ultimate foreplay experience. So it takes these guides and turns them into four weeks of playful adventures. So here's how it breaks down. Week one, you go over our ultimate fingering guide. Week two is ultimate hand jobs. Week three is ultimate oral on her. Week four is ultimate blow jobs. So you're going to go through each of those one week at a time. Every week you'll get a weekly email with some flirty kickoffs and step by step assignments. And I think this is what we do so well in the guides is we take show you new techniques that you probably have never learned about before. But in a way that very fun. It is totally shame free. It's not like you're not giving this to your partner and being like, you're really bad at giving me oral, so you need to, like, read these and get better. It really turns it into this adventure where you guys are exploring together. It makes it so much easier to talk about and give feedback to each other because you're like, blaming it on the guides. You're not giving feedback to your partner. You're giving feedback to the guides. So you get to walk through all of this together with your partner. You also get checklists to track your progress. You get a heat map to rate every single move and see how your favorites and your partner's favorites stack up. You get quick little audio pep talks from us to get you in the zone. By the way, there are also full audio versions of each of the four guides. So since we know you like listening to podcasts, just, you know, pop a little earbud in and listen to them while you're doing the laundry. This can be a super sexy thing to do. Like, maybe you guys are cleaning up after dinner. Each of you put a little earbud in and listen. Like, which technique do we want to.

Try in 30 minutes?

So, yeah, we're just really excited about the Ultimate Foreplay Experience. We really wanted to make this, like, next level even more fun, even more exciting, and really get couples to do this. Like, we never want you just purchasing one of our guides and letting it languish in your inbox. Like, we want you to actually do it and get to be the next success story. So you can get access to that challenge completely for free if you purchase the ultimate foreplay guides by October 23rd. So grab the guides. You get the whole experience included for no additional cause. Cause cost, cost or cause?

Yeah, I don't know. I was going to say something about that, but that's just weird. I don't know. I can't. There's nothing for me to say.

So you can go straight to vm therapy.com foreplay again, that's vmtherapy.com foreplay we will also put that link in the show notes.

Also, great news. If you've already purchased the Ultimate Foreplay guides in the past, don't worry, we're not leaving you out in the cold. Just check your emails because we are going to send you a way to participate in the challenge in the experience portion as well. Totally for free. So check your email.

That's why it really pays to be part of our community. Like we take care of our people.

Yeah, yeah. Don't, don't wait. Like, there's not. There's not like a better thing coming there. Maybe there is a better thing coming, but if you join now, you're going to get the better thing.

You're going to be coming.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

All right, so let's get back to the episode. So when we turned to our Instagram community, we first asked the women in our audience to share what are the reasons why you feel uncomfortable receiving oral? And there were three answers that came up over and over and over again. So number one was, I'm scared that I smell or taste bad. And this. I think it's really important for us to recognize that this is purely because of socialization. Like, bad hype. Yeah. As women, we spend our entire lives being told that our genitals are weird, they're icky, they smell bad, they taste bad.

Or like, you need a product to make it taste better, which kind of implies that it doesn't taste good or smell good to begin with.

Oh, God, yeah. And like, you know, I, like, I'm have not been immune to that. I got those exact same messages, and for so much of my sex life, like, I felt that same insecurity. Like, my partner started going down, you moving their head down there, and it was like, oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

Like, you know, is it gonna be okay? When was the last time I showered? You know, it just can feel so nerve wracking. But I really, I really like to tell women, you know, we need to remind ourselves that we were not born feeling that way about our bodies. We were taught to feel that way about our bodies. So actually, I want to turn it over to you, Xander, before we even get into the questions. How do you feel as a man who goes down on women about the smell and the taste? And I realize a lot of people are gonna be like, obviously he's gonna say nice things. He's not gonna feel like, Vanessa smells really bad. Well, babe, actually, no, now's the time to drop the bomb. But, like, what, what can you tell? What can you tell women in general?

Okay, well, look, number. Number one. Number one, basically, since the moment I learned that oral sex was an option, it's something that I've been fantasizing about, like, you know, from the, you know, early puberty, when you're starting to kind of learn about what things are in store for you sexually. Like, you know, just like, you know, men who are into women fantasize about boobs. And. And vaginas and vulvas and sex. Like you are thinking about all the acts. Like, you know, like, I wanted. I wanted to. I wanted to finger. I wanted to have sex with. I wanted to go down on. Like, those were all. Those are things that I wanted for a very long time. Even, you know, not a very long time. Couple of years before I did it myself. So.

Very long time. Just last year, in fact.

Yeah. Weird. That came out weird. I mean, you know, at that age, it felt like a very time, you know, a couple years from like 13 to 16 or 17. But. But yeah, so I want to. I want to put that out there that most people who are into women have been fantasizing about doing this thing for a very long time. This. I don't know, as I'm just sort of thinking about this for the first time. I don't know what is. It feels like a chicken or egg type of thing. But like. So, yeah, I can't tell you. Do I love the taste of you or is it that, like. I love the. Like, I love what happens when I'm going down on you. I love to give you pleasure and I love, you know, like the whole. The entirety of the sexual experience. And so of course, I associate what you smell and what you taste like with. With sex and our sex life and loving you and. But like, for me, it's like, it's completely intertwined. Like, it doesn't make sense to me that I would be like. Would be like, oh, my God, I love you so much. I like having sex with you. I like all this stuff. Oh, God. But, like, I could do without that part. It just. It's all intertwined for me. And I think for most people out there who are into women, most guys out there who are into women, like, yeah, it's all intertwined. I think that where things start to break down again, this gets back to what I was saying about confidence. I think that when people aren't very confident in what they're doing, they start to be a little like, oh, maybe I want to avoid this thing. And so. But yeah, it's. I think that like, if. Yeah, if you are giving oral sex and you are giving great oral sex to your partner and they're having. You can see the pleasure that you're giving them. And it's a great fun part of your sex life. Like, it's just. I don't know, I associate it all together. Like, the smell and the taste is just all one great part of the experience.

I think it's also important for us to normalize that genitals taste like genitals. Yeah, I don't imagine tastes like candy. Bubble gum, Ocean breeze.

Yeah, I don't imagine my dick tastes like, great. I don't. I. I don't think it tastes horrible.

But I like it tastes like an Oregon.

I think it tastes like sex. Like, yeah, like, that's what I would say. I don't know. Have you. I feel like, like, you know, I feel like people throw around the word like, oh, it smells like sex in here. Like, you know, someone just had sex. It's like, I. I think that, yeah, like, our, our genitals are. Are, you know, our, our bodily fluids. Like, yeah, they smell like something and it smells like sex. And to me, I associate that with great, positive things.

So I also want to address, like, practically, if this is something that you really find yourself worrying about, the best and really only thing that you can do before your partner goes down on you is just take a washcloth, put a little bit of warm water on it.

Just water?

Just water.

No soap?

No soap. No other product, no deodorant, no scented bullshit. Seriously, nothing. Your vagina, your vulva, do not need soap to clean them out. And actually self cleaning, they're self cleaning. And if you use soap or any sort of scented products, you're actually throwing off your ph balance and creating odor, which is so ironic.

In the long term, you are not creating odor.

In the short term, are you mansplaining vaginal odor to me?

Well, no, no. I think, I think a lot of people get really hung up on this because they're like, oh, I use this product because I smell so bad. And I want to make it really clear. Yes, you use the product. Just like when you put, you know, cologne on or something, you smell like that for a little while. So yes, a product will. Will make you smell like something for a little while, but it will completely throw off your ph, making it smell bad over the long term. And so then you've locked yourself into a cycle where you're like, oh, well, it smells bad. It smells, you know, abnormal. And so I have to use this. But the thing that you are using is actually causing the problem.

I love that you're explaining this, but I think you listened to me give this. This impassioned speech for so long that you've taken on the passion.

Yeah. And the other, the other objection, because this is always the objection that comes up is someone goes, okay, well, I. All right, I'll try for like a week. I'M not using this. I'm not using any product. I'm not using any soap. It takes a little. It can take like up to a month. Right. It can take some time to restore the right PH balance. So just trust us, take your time. It will get better.

It gets better. Okay. So anyways, going back to what to do beforehand. Take a washcloth, put warm water, that is all you need and just use it to wipe down your labia. So it is very normal to have skin cells can build up around your inner labia. They can look like a white paste there. Totally normal. It happens all the time. So you can just wipe those off. It's also really normal to get like little pieces of tissue paper or toilet paper. I mean not, not tissue paper. Don't be wiping yourself with tissue paper. Toilet paper, little pieces of toilet paper. So if just a quick little wipe down like that makes you feel better, just gives you that little confidence, that is totally fine to do. But otherwise the work is really just in recognizing like you were taught to feel ashamed of your body, but that is bullshit. And your body is normal and beautiful and perfect just as it is. Okay, so that, that's the number one answer. I felt like we had to spend a little bit of time with that. The second most common answer was it feels awkward having the focus on me. We have a question about that so we'll get back to that one. And I related one too. Like I can't stay present in the moment. We have another question related to that too, so we'll get to those.

I have some ideas why that might be.

Okay, so other responses that came up were, I think I take too long. I'm worried my partner doesn't actually enjoy it. I get bored. It feels weird not doing anything. I think that relates to the awkwardness of receiving. I'm worried about getting a UTI from bacteria. I think I look weird down there after giving birth. I feel bad making him do it when I. I have hair down there. That's another thing. A lot of women feel like they have to be like perfectly shaved or waxed. I do not recommend shaving, just FYI. But that's a tangent. But they feel like they have to be completely hairless in order for their partner to give them oral.

Yeah, I mean the hair is not in the area that you are actually giving the aura on.

Yeah, true. But I think a lot of women feel like it's like. Yeah, it's like that is a really big hang up for a lot of women. I hear about that so much like, oh, I'm, you know, I haven't shaved, I haven't waxed.

It's a tricky thing because it's like, I can't tell. Well, yeah, well, it's like, I want to say, well, you should go with the. You should go with the genital hair or lack of hair that feels comfortable to you. But at the same time, when someone says that, I'm like, well, it kind of sounds like you're saying you're not comfortable with your current genital hair situation because you're not comfortable with your partner. Partner, like, going down on you or seeing that. So it's like, is it. Is. It doesn't sound like you're really comfortable with the situation. So maybe. I mean, this just sounds like really a great invitation to talk to your partner about what is that like. Or just. Yeah, think about. What do you want your genital hair situation to be like? That will feel comfortable for you. And. But, yeah, that. But again, that's. I don't say that to try to be like, oh, well, the only way to be comfortable is to have zero hair. I think it's. You gotta. There's a. This is a communication with your partner. And I mean, you know, similarly, like, for men, I think that there's a whole, you know, like, yeah, like, I have. I have genital hair. And I could imagine.

That sounds so weird. I have genital hair.

Well, I don't know. Okay. I don't. I don't wax it. Little info about me. I do not wax. Just so you know, in case you were wondering.

Real hairy penis.

That's not true. Sometimes if I let it go a little too long. But where I'm going with this.

Things I never thought we'd be talking about on the podcast.

Where I'm going with this, though, is that. Yeah, I can totally imagine that, like, if I haven't. If I haven't trimmed it in a while, that it's, you know, that it's probably a little bit annoying to you. So I think.

Okay, well, I just don't think pubic hair is that big of a deal for people. Like, when you're giving oral.

Yeah. But, like, so this is the conversation. This is the conversation. Because I'm like, oh, man. God. I realize, like, there's a lot of. There's a lot of hair down there. Is that, like getting your way or getting in your mouth? And here's Vanessa saying, you know what? Actually, it really doesn't bother me one way or the other. If anything, I know You've actually said it is more bothersome to you if I trim it pretty short because then it feels pokey. So, again, like, it's too much. Is it? Is it too much? That's what we do on this podcast. I didn't think I was going to get into this today, but. But again, I think, you know, we got to model this for the people listening. Like, yeah, it's. I think that the way that we groom ourselves, it. It. It is a bit of a give and a take in a relationship. Right. Like, we want to look good.

Like, I just think. I think we want to look good.

For each other, and we want to. You know, I think we take each other's preferences into consideration. Into consideration. Not like, my partner wants me to do this, so I always do this, but, like, I take into consideration how you like my hair to look.

I just think we can't. I think the issue here is being too perfectionistic about sex. And I think that's really a trap that so many of us fall into where we start creating all these precon in our head that have to be there in order for us to feel comfortable with sex. And the reality is there's a certain bare minimum of hygiene. That is definitely important.

Yes.

But I think all of us could benefit from relaxing a little bit around sex and recognizing, like, bodies are bodies. Sometimes they do body things. Like, we don't need to be perfectly showered and shaved and clean and. What's the word? Sanitized. Like, we don't need to be completely sanitized to have sex. Like, we have sex. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm a little. Like, my. I got a little BO Going right now. Sometimes we get a little sweaty during sex. Sometimes we find a little toilet paper ball. You know, it's just like, that's normal. And I think the task for all of us is just giving ourselves permission to be normal and be human rather than being so perfectionistic about, like, all these. These things have to be in place in order for me to relax. Okay, that. Our little tangent about the length of Xander's pubic hair.

This.

There we go. Okay, let's get back to it. We just had one more on the list. It feels dirty. And again, that's another socialization thing of just, like, it feels wrong, it feels shameful or taboo. Like, something that's naughty we're not allowed to do.

And as if, like, putting a penis in there is not dirty.

I think the. I think if you feel like receiving oral sex is dirty, you probably have, there's a good chance that you also feel sex overall is yeah, there's some.

Work to do on D Shaming yourself around sex.

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Yeah.

Do you ever feel that as a man?

No. It feels fucking good. Like, I'm like, wow, she's focusing on me. I get to sit back, relax, and either zone out or watch and just enjoy myself. It feels luxurious.

That's so.

I've never really exciting.

I've never really thought before. I mean, it's so obvious, but I've never really pieced it together that, like, it's the exact same experience for a man receiving as it is for a woman. Like, it's still my partners. Like, my experience. Experience sometimes has been like, it's low. Like, your head's all the way down there.

Yeah.

Where do you think you're up here? Like, where do you think your head is? I mean, it's down there.

It's maybe like 6 inches higher or something.

So for you, it feels luxurious. But I think for a lot of women, it feels awkward. And sometimes, yeah, for me, it doesn't. It doesn't feel awkward for me, but sometimes it does feel a little bit lonely. I'm like, I'm just here. Just like, what am I doing? So a lot of women are like, I mean, someone even wrote in, like, what do I even do with my hands? Where do I look? Like, the logistics of it feel complicated for a lot of women. So what should she do while she's receiving? How do we get ourselves into the mindset that this is luxurious, not awkward?

Well, I mean, number one, I think, like, you deserve to enjoy yourself sexually. And if, if. If oral sex is something that is enjoyable to you, because not every single woman loves, loves, loves oral sex, I think for some women is just okay. For some women, it's maybe too much stimulation, no matter how, what type of variation you put on it. Or it can be, you know, too much stimulation on the clitoris specifically. But the vast. I mean, we. We survey this and, you know, what is it? It's like 90. Like 90% of women say that oral sex is the most pleasurable activity for them.

I think was 91% of women said intercourse is not the most enjoyable.

That's right. But assuming that you are one of the women where oral sex is one of the best paths to orgasm for you, like, you deserve to have the experience of just being focused on. Right. Like, just like a guy deserves that experience, that luxury of just being focused on. You deserve that as well. And, you know, I. I don't know where exactly, you know, I can't say for, for any one person where exactly you got the message that you didn't deserve that. But I think societally we don't do a very good job of showing women that they deserve that as much as men do. We portray a lot of. In coming of age movies and stuff, we portray a lot of men receiving blowjobs and not a lot of men being like, hey, I'm gonna go down on you, and I'm gonna go as long as you want me to, because this is really fun and hot. Right? Like, we don't ever see that vibe portrayed. And so I think, yeah, we come away being like, yeah, we don't really. We don't really deserve this, or this is weird, or like, you know, maybe I was really uncomfortable at a younger age when I was becoming sexually active. And so I never gave myself the experience of letting my partner do it to me for very long. And so now I feel like I kind of missed out on that.

Okay, but logistically, like, just what do you think a woman should do when she is. When her partner's going down on her?

I mean, I think, like, first I would say, like, just focus on the sensation. First of all, I think that that is. I think that that is where a lot of people kind of go wrong, is they start trying to analyze or think like, oh, how long has it been? What, what's my partner doing? Like, just try to. I would maybe say even just close your eyes to start with and just try to focus on the sensation. I think that this again gets back to like, why we made the foreplay guides, because I think a lot of people's technique is not that great. Or a lot of. A lot of men have one or two kind of go to oral techniques tried and true or whatever, just what they assume is the right way to do it. And so I think that maybe where things can go wrong is one, you're either not really able or you're not really allowing yourself to just relax and just relax into the sensation. But it also might be that the sensation you're getting is not very good. And again, that is where you go to the foreplay. Guys guides. Go through the techniques, find the specific types of techniques that work for you. Because, spoiler alert, there are a lot of different techniques and not all of them work for every single person. Every. Every woman's body is different, and every woman is going to require slightly different types of stimulation or prefer slightly different types. So you got to find out what that type is. And then just try to enjoy it. That would be the first thing. And then in terms of, like, giving you what to do with your hands, I mean, you can definitely, like, touch your. But you can, like, you know, grab your partner's shoulders. I think you could. I don't know, you could play with your breasts. Like, I think that sounds like something.

You would really enjoy. Yes.

I'm saying that that is probably. Unless that's super enjoyable for you, that's not necessarily something for you. But if we're. If we're just trying to figure out what can I do to, like, not be awkward? Sure, you could do that. Honestly, I have never in my life life had the experience of going down on you or. Or anybody else in my past, for that matter, and been like, why aren't they doing anything with their hands? What the hell are they doing or not doing? Like, why is she just sitting there? Like, that's the point, people. So, yeah, I mean, I think, like. And I think that this is where the vibes can kind of go wrong with Orel, is that you don't know what to do. You don't know the right techniques. You're not enjoying it immediately. And so the vibe that you give your partner, understandably, is you're confused about what to do, you're feeling awkward, you're not necessarily enjoying it. So the feedback the partner gets is, huh, she doesn't really seem like she's into this. Maybe I'm not doing it. Right. I don't know. Maybe I should stop. Right? And so it's like you immediately create the situation that you don't want to have, which is like. Which is like, yeah, this feels awkward. The partner doesn't know if you like it. Like, it's. It's just. It's like, it's not a good vibe, which is why it's. I think it's so important to figure out what are the best techniques for you. And then assuming that you are enjoying it, giving that feedback to your partner, whether that's visually or, like, audibly, like moaning, saying that you like it, or kinesthetically touching them, like, you know, kind of pulling them into. You know, I think that that's really. That's when things really get fired up, is when you are enjoying yourself. And then you're showing your partner that you are enjoying yourself. You're completing that feedback loop. And then they are. And then they're loving it too. So, like, oh, yeah, like, she's into this. Like, that's. That's what you want. And I think that you are selling yourself short and you're selling your partner short. If you're going into. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. This is too much. They're spending too much time on me or I don't know what to do. Like, you are. You're short circuiting the process. Like you. There is no way that feedback loop can close. Okay. So, yeah, combination of. Figure out the right technique. You cannot enjoy yourself with oral until you figure out the right techniques for you. And then two, feel into that, into the good feelings. Like, just try to. Just try to relax and enjoy it and forget about what you're doing with your hands at first. Just enjoy it. It. That will be. That will close the feedback loop for your partner. And then once you get comfortable with that, then. Sure. Touch them. Touch yourself. I don't know. Play patty cake. Just kidding. Don't do that.

I wonder if it could be helpful for some women to. Because it just. Yeah, it was really interesting for me hearing you say, it feels luxurious. So I think it could be interesting for some women to try to, like, channel a man just feeling like.

Like.

Like he deserves that. Like, oh, this is so luxurious to just get to be the center of attention. So rather than, like, I think a lot of women will ask, how do I stop feeling like I'm the center of attention? And the reality is, you can't. You are the center of attention in that moment. It's very similar to how people are always asking us, like, how do I stop feeling awkward? And it's like, I don't think that that's the goal to stop feeling something, but instead, can we replace it with feeling something else? So can you kind of picture yourself feeling like, I deserve this? This is. This feels luxurious. I get to just soak in, like, experience this experience. Just being able to receive. I wonder if that could. Yeah. Just be a different kind of approach for a lot of women.

Yeah. I mean, I think in general, when the I. When we hear the question from anyone, whether it's about oral or something else, what am I supposed to. Like, what am I supposed to do with my hands? Or what am I supposed to do? We got this with intercourse a lot. Like, oh, we're in missionary and I'm the woman, I'm on bottom. Like, what. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to be moving, Moving back and forth, like, what am I supposed to do? And blah, blah, blah. Like, technique is important, and it's important to know what the options Are. But I do think that it veers into dangerous territory when you're just looking for, like, oh, tell me this, this secret thing to do with my hands that's going to make my partner think that they're doing a good job. What you're basically doing is saying, like, you're basically like, oh, give me a script. Give me, like, something basically like, fake that I can do that is not necessarily aligned with how I'm actually feeling that is going to make my partner look like they're giving me a good experience. You are again, you are short circuiting. That whole thing you're taking away. You're basically telling yourself, it doesn't matter. This isn't about me. This is about them. This is about me giving them a specific experience when they are trying to give you an experience. So, yeah, I think that we could try to. Try to forget about what is the secret things I'm supposed to do with my hands or how exactly am I supposed to rock my body back and forth when they're, you know, penetrating me or something like that. Like, there is no one right answer. Like, you do what is exciting for you. It's more about creating a fun, exciting, positive experience for you and your partner than it is doing the right thing. It's fine to ask, oh, what are some options? Like, like, it seems like maybe we're working at cross purposes. So, like, what could I do? Or, like, oh, God, I keep, like, hitting his head with my hands accidentally. How do I stop doing that? But so it's like, yeah, if you're actually having a problem, then, yeah, we can talk about options. But, like, yeah, if you're thinking there's a specific thing that we could tell you to do that's gonna make it better for your partner, you're basically taking away your own ability to enjoy yourself.

Okay, let's go to the next question, which I actually think I'm gonna turn over to you too. What if my partner is lying about enj it?

Well, that would be a bummer. But also, like, what if your partner's lying about all kinds of things in your relationship? Like.

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Like, I imagine then that this woman's partner is telling her I enjoy it, and she's like, I don't know. I think they're lying.

There'd be a lot of work to do to. To give a lot of oral sex. Yeah, like, God, he keeps insisting on giving me oral sex. But I'm. I'm worried that actually hates it. Like, why would he Be wanting to give it to you.

Yeah. I mean, the reality is oral sex, like, it takes effort for anybody, you know, performing it. So why would your partner be, like, pushing to do something that takes effort on their part, but they're also lying about, like, if he doesn't like doing it, he's not going to tell you that he likes it or try to do it.

Yeah. Or, like, want to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I do think that there. There is a scenario where. Where. Where this could be true. And the scenario that I can think of is not actually. It's not actually what we're talking about here. It's a slightly different one where it's like, I do think that there is a possibility where, say, you as a woman are asking your partner for a lot of oral sex and your partner is maybe seemingly begrudgingly giving it to you. Or, like, they'll do it for 30 seconds and then be like, hey, I'm next. Or like, oh, let's move on. Right? And then you're asking them, oh, like, hey, like, are you, like. Like, what's going on? Like, do you not enjoy doing this? And they're like, oh, no, I love it. I love, you know, like. Like, that. To me, if that was your situation, I would be like, huh, okay. Yeah, Maybe. Maybe there is something coming up for them. Like, they're saying that they love it, but their actions are not aligning with it. But if your partner is like, yeah, I fucking love giving you oral and would like to give you more oral, they're probably telling you the truth, because why would they be?

Yeah.

If they were lying about it, they would be trying to avoid the conversation of oral and not. They would be trying to avoid situations where they would need to tell you that they love it.

Also, though, just to play a little bit of devil's advocate here, if your partner is lying about enjoying it, I kind of think, who cares? Like, if they're willing to do it and you enjoy it. Okay. I want to be realistic. Like, giving oral sex, it does take energy and effort. Like, it is. People are always like, it's called blowjob for a reason. Like, it does take effort, and that's okay. Like, it's okay for us to spend effort on our partner, and it's okay for us to not absolutely love what we're doing. Like, there are plenty of things that I do for you inside and outside of the bedroom that I don't necessarily. I'm not, like, jumping out of my skin. I'm so happy to do It, But I do it for you because I love you. Because your experience is important to me and, like, it brings me a certain amount of joy to make you happy, to make you feel good. So I want to normalize that aspect of it too. Like, if your partner's like, okay, you know, they're thinking to themselves, like, okay, it's maybe not my absolute favorite thing to do, but, like, I don't want my partner to feel guilty about it. I don't want her to feel like it's because she smells bad or tastes bad or anything like that. Like, if your partner's benevolently lying to you about it because they want you to enjoy it, like, I don't think that's really the worst thing in the world. I will say, like, I do think kind of what you. Similar to what you said earlier. When you learn the right techniques, I really think the vast majority of people can go to a place of genuinely enjoying it. But I also want to normalize. Like, it's okay to not absolutely love it, but to still choose to do it because you love your partner.

Yeah. Yeah. It's two things, I think. Number one, what you, what you were just saying got me thinking. Thinking, like, yeah, okay, so if they're benevolently lying and I'm putting lying in quotes, like, it's how much are they lying? Like, I highly doubt it's like, they're actually secretly resentful of you and hating it and like, oh, my God, this is so bad. This is so bad. But I gotta keep doing it, right? It's like, okay, if they are lying and I'm continuing to put this in quotes because it's like, are they really even lying? Like, maybe they're exaggerating slightly. Yeah, okay, maybe they're not. Like, oh, my God, I love this so much. This is the biggest turn off of all time. I love this. I love, love, love, love, love this. Right? They might be like, all right, I love pleasing my partner. This is not the absolutely most enjoyable activity. If I were rank ordering activities that I love to do, but, like, it's not horrible, right? It's like, it is an okay to good activity and it gives my partner a lot of pleasure and that gives me a lot of pleasure. And I enjoy having sex with my partner and doing sexual things with my partner. Like, yeah, if that's, if that's how they're thinking about it and they're telling you, yeah, I love doing it. Okay, yeah, maybe they are slightly exaggerating how it is, but it's not like, yeah, it's not like they're going from, actually, I hate this, and if it were up to me, I would never do this again to saying, oh, no, I love it. So we'll put that out there.

Okay.

And I mean, the other thing too is like, yeah, like, at the end of the day, giving oral sex, whether you're going down on a woman or your woman's going down on a man or whatever, like, whether it's a penis or a vulva, giving is just, at the end of the day, it is not going to be as enjoyable or as stimulating as receiving. Right. I love going down on you. I love it. But is it as pleasurable as you going down on me? Absolutely not. Is it as comfortable? Absolutely not. Like, I've got to get myself into a position where, you know, my neck can get a little crank, my. My tongue, my fingers can get tired. I might have to switch hands, might have to take a little break. Right. Whereas if I'm lying down on the bed and you're going down on me, like, I'm not getting tired, I'm not getting uncomfortable. Right. Like, so there's just some realities here that giving is going to be a different experience than receiving. They are never going to be equal. They're never going to be the same. Shame. You are never going to receive as much stimulation from giving oral because it's purely mental stimulation of, oh, I'm going down on my partner. I'm seeing their genitals or right in my face. So that's like a mental stimulation. I feel like this gets at. Nobody asked this, but people are always asking us this on ask Us Anything Sundays is like, yeah, it's a mental stimulation so that in the very short term can be exciting. Like, oh, yeah, I'm going down on her. Oh, yeah, this is hot. You know, this happens to me all the time. I'll get hard, like, in the first minute that I'm going down on you, and then after a couple of minutes, I will lose that erection because you can't stay, like, super stimulated from just mental stimulation. Like, at a certain point, maybe after you stop being a teenager, mental stimulation just doesn't cut it over the long term. And so I just think it's important to call that out. Like, yeah, it's. They are. These two. Giving and receiving are never going to be the same. Receiving is always going to be more pleasurable because you are actually getting stimulation. So the expectation should not be like, oh, yeah, I love going down on you just as much as I love Receiving blowjobs. Like, of course I love one more. But you know what I love even more than that? I love you and me having the best sex life possible. I love you and me. Me both having a shit ton of great orgasms, Right? So at the end of the day, yeah, I maybe love one more than the other if I have to rank them that way. But that doesn't mean I'm going to avoid going down on you. Okay, moving on with the questions. Vanessa, does oral sex always have to be at the beginning?

No. No, that is, I think that's one of the best and easiest ways to make foreplay, like, to take it to the next level. We have this really unfortunate idea in our heads of how sex is supposed to go on, like in a male and female relationship. Like a little bit of groping and then some oral and then intercourse. And it doesn't have to be in that order at all. Like, I think it can be super sexy to have intercourse and then go back to oral and then back to intercourse and back to oral. Like, you can really sprinkle it in all throughout. And you can end on oral whenever you want to too. So I think breaking out of that traditional mold can be so fun.

What about the hang up that some people have about tasting, possibly tasting themselves?

We gotta get over that again. And it's. We were taught to feel ashamed and embarrassed of our bodies. We were not born feeling that way. So if you feel discomfort around, like your own bodily fluids, that's internalized shame. That's not how you actually feel. And I think that it also fits in with the, the, the perfectionism element that comes up around sex so much too. Like, bodily fluids are a part of sex. And it's really important for us to normalize that, to get comfortable with that, to realize, like, that's just a part of the thing. So again, like, you know, every. We always say everybody gets to decide what they want to do for their own sex life. I'm not here to, like, force anybody to do that, but I do think it's worth. If you feel uncomfortable with that, I think it's worth examining, like, yeah, where is, where did that discomfort come from? And is that something that I picked up along the way? Is that something that I want to allow to continue operating in my sex, in my sex life? Or is that something that I want to try to overcome?

Yeah. And I think that for most men that have the hang up of, oh, God, I couldn't possibly go down on her after we've had unprotected sex, penetrative sex. Like, whether. Whether you came inside of her or whether it's just in the middle of it, it. I, I do think that that, that feeling of, oh, I couldn't possibly, like, taste myself, because I. Because I think the idea is, oh, well, that would be gay.

So weird.

Which is.

Which is the weirdest. Mental gymnastics, like, I truly don't understand that.

Yeah, well, because the way I flip that back around is, well, do you enjoy watching your penis go into her vagina? Because that's sounds pretty good, gay man. Why. Why are you looking at that dick? Right?

Like, and to be clear, not that there's any.

How dare you? How dare you ever look at your own penis?

That is pretty gay to look at your penis.

Yeah, it's pretty gay. Your penis. Or like, God, heaven forbid you see your own calm, like, oh, God, like, you're one. You're just one step away from being gay. Hopefully no one takes that clip out of context in this podcast. But, yeah, no, I mean, yeah, I think that you really gotta ask yourself that question. How does, like, tasting a body part, basically, you know, like, sex is us combining our body parts, our bodily fluids. How does, yeah, how does me maybe tasting a little bit of that say anything about my sexuality? But it's like when it's like, somehow you are gay for actually going down on a woman, it doesn't, it doesn't add up to me. But if you can get over that, hang up, it really opens the door to a lot more enjoyable sex, man. Yeah, I feel bad for people that are limiting themselves in that way.

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I mean, no, you don't have to every time if you don't want to. But for me, what stands out in this question that it takes me so long and then I feel bad, so it really doesn't matter how long it takes you. And again, like, I always want to be realistic with people. Like, yes, of course, if you're, you know, giving oral to your partner, of course there's a difference between your partner orgasming in 2 minutes versus 20 minutes. There's more time, there's more effort. I want to be real about that. And at the same time, sex is not about being perfectly balanced. Like, imagine how shitty your sex life would be if you're trying, truly trying to get a stopwatch out and be like, okay, well, I went down on you and you took 1 minute and 45 seconds. So I only get 1 minute and 45 seconds.

I'm imagining the chat. The chess timer.

Yeah, you clock in.

Okay. My turn. Your turn.

That sounds horrible, right? And like, so we, like, who cares? We don't want to be keeping score of each other in that way. Like, if it takes you a long time, there are ways to work around that. So maybe it's that your partner uses their hand on you for a while and then switches over to their mouth or goes back and forth. Maybe you used your hand on yourself. Maybe you use your hand on yourself while your partner is also has Their mouth down there. Maybe you warm up with a toy for a while and then your partner goes down. Like, there are plenty of ways to navigate the additional effort or time that it might take, but I want to normalize. Like, it's okay for you to take that additional time and effort.

And I think this again, gets back to needing to be open to having these types of conversations with your partner about what you actually want sex to look like for a given sexual experience or in general, how you want things to look. Because I think what I see, what I read behind this question is I would bet that this is a person that hasn't really ever talked to their partner about how do we want most of our sex sessions to look like? Like, what is it that we really enjoy? It's like, this person is like, oh, God, I. You know, clearly they have never talked to their partner about, like, you know, okay, well, when you go down on me, like, do I want to come? Do I want to. Do I want you to do that for 10 minutes and then we move on to intercourse, or do we want to go back and forth? Like, what it says to me is, there's never been an open and honest conversation about, like, what is most enjoyable to you. And, you know, I think, like, this is something that we've had many conversations about throughout our relationship about, like, how is our sex life looking and what is. Is it, you know, would we rather be spending more or less time on Intercours? Would you rather be spending more or less time on foreplay? You know, like, I know for me personally, like, yeah, I do. I love receiving oral sex from you, but I definitely enjoy orgasming from intercourse more. And so for the most part, like, you know, unless. Unless one. Unless I'm saying, you know what, I would love a blowjob to completion, or unless you're saying, like, I would love. You know, I would love to give that to you. Or maybe like, I'm not open to intercourse tonight, so let's just do oral or whatever. Whatever. Like, you know, we are. We are in clear communication about what the expectation is. Right? And so I think that you gotta. You gotta get there with your partner too, of talking about, yeah, it's. It's not like, do I have to orgasm every time? Do you want to orgasm from oral? Where do you want to be orgasming? So have that conversation with your partner so that it is clear rather than. Because I think so many of us get into this weird gray area. We're like, well, we don't want to talk about It. What are we supposed to be doing? And then we're having sex, and I'm like, well, I sure hope my partner. Partner does the thing they're supposed to.

Yeah.

Because they're supposed to be able to read my mind. Or they're supposed to have listened to this podcast where Vanessa and Xander told them exactly what they were supposed to do. Right. Like, you got to talk about it.

Yeah.

All right, our last question. Vanessa, I don't know how to tell my partner to adjust how he's doing it. Any tips?

Okay, so, first of all, this is something that I've struggled with personally, because, so receiving oral from your partner, it can be really difficult to give feedback around that because it's really hard to discern what's actually happening in the moment.

Unlike fingers.

Yeah.

I think you could do the same thing.

I find it so different from fingering, because it's fingering. Like, I can do fingering myself. So it's much easier to say, oh, a little bit slower, a little bit faster, a little bit harder, a little to the left, a little to the right. Do the circle motion thing. Whereas, like, obviously, I can't go down on myself, so I can't give you any feedback about it, because I don't know what that experience is. Like, doing that to myself. Also, like, the tongue, it's just like, your fingers are much more dexterous, and they can give much more pinpointed stimulation. Whereas sometimes with the tongue, I'm, like, more crude. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, what is happening?

What?

Like, I can't tell. Like, you know, oh, is he doing this technique with his tongue or this technique with his tongue? So it can be really hard to. To give that feedback. So I just want to normalize. Like, that can definitely be. It's just trickier because of the nature of the specific act. But in general, with feedback, I think about three different variables. I think about the pressure that's being used, the speed that you're going at, and the specific stroke technique that you're using. So with your tongue, the specific mo Movement that you're making with your tongue. So I would think about those three variables.

Plus, with oral sex, there can be the added. The addition of fingers on top of what's happening with the mouth and the tongue.

Yeah. So think about those variables. But I will also say this is one of the best reasons to get the ultimate foreplay guides and to join the experience that we are kicking off, because it gives you a ton of different techniques to try, and it's set up in this specific way. Like, we create the structure, and we show you exactly how to give each other feedback about each of the techniques. And again, it's like you're giving feedback to the guides. You're not telling your partner, like, oh, you really sucked at doing that. So you can do each of these different techniques and share with your partner. And it gives you something to compare, which makes it so much easier with oral. So you're like, you know, they try these two techniques, and you're like, oh, I really like the first one way better than the second one. Okay, now we try number three.

Oh.

Actually, three, I think was even better than the first two. So it just gives you a much easier, just more fun way to give feedback to your partner.

Yeah. Because then instead of it being like, oh, I'm criticizing your technique, because the reality is most people. Most. Yeah, most men giving oral sex don't have the widest technique. They have one or two things that they do that they have kind of bumbled along through life figuring out, and they have either gotten some good feedback or some fake feedback about how good it is. And so they think they know what they're doing. And so they are doing, you know, one of two things, basically, when there's actually like 50 to 100 possibilities on the table. And so instead of it being like, you suck at oral, your technique is bad, AKA you are bad at sex, you are bad at oral, whatever, which is, I think, unfortunately, the place many of us go when it's like, you know, if you're like, oh, well, this is the only way I know how to do it, and my partner's saying that they don't like it. I must be bad at this. Right? That doesn't feel great. So instead, it's so much easier to be like, oh, okay, boom. Here's like, 50 new techniques to try. This isn't about your technique. It's like, this is just new things. Let's try each of these things. Not every one of them is going to do it for me. In fact, some of them aren't going to do it it for me. Some of them really are going to do it for me. So let's figure it out. So when you say, oh, you know what? That one didn't really do it for me. You're not saying, you're bad at sex, your technique sucks. You're saying, you know what? This one, they told me this one might work, it might not. It's just a matter of. Let's go through them one by one and find the ones that do. That is so much easier than trying to be like, oh, actually, you suck and I need you to do it like this instead.

Yeah. All right. So once again, if you want to join our ultimate four point experience, you get it absolutely for free. When you get the ultimate foreplay guides by October 23rd, you can go straight to vm therapy.comforeplay that's vmtherapy.com foreplay. We are also putting that link in the show notes, but we would love to have you join us. It is going to be so, so, so, so, so much fun.

All right. Well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. And join us again next week because we release episodes every Thursday.