E258: Weed, Alcohol, and Sex: What's Actually Happening to Your Body and Desire

Habitual usage around sex can create dependence on substance to feel intimate. Like a lot of people say, you know, yeah, I need to have a glass of wine, I need to have a cocktail before we have sex. And it gets to the point where you feel like you can't have sex unless you've had that. Like you really become reliant on, I need this thing to take that edge off for me. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast.

We're We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin.

I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude.

We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Okay. We're back at it.

We are.

We've been releasing episodes every week, but you and I have not sat down and recorded a podcast together in a month.

God, I actually hadn't thought of that. Yeah, it has been a month. That's wild.

I feel a little rusty. Yeah.

Are we—

do we have it still?

We'll see. Give us a few minutes. Yeah. Xander was on a surf trip. I mean, you had just like the bougiest last couple of weeks possible. He was on a surf trip and then he met me for a couple's vacation. So you had two vacations back to back. What a life.

True. Though, I mean, my cabin on the boat was not particularly bougie.

No, it was not.

It was a very functional trip. It was about surfing a lot, which we did. And it was awesome.

Bougie in the sense that you had two vacations back to back. That's never happened before. True. That is true.

That is true. We wanted to do something together as well. And our plans for that second trip had to change last minute due to certain world events that have been happening, which was also kind of stressful and wild. But we made it happen and we're back.

Made it happen. And now we're back to the podcast and we are covering a topic today that has been hotly requested. And that I will admit I have been a little hesitant to cover.

Yeah.

We'll get into it.

Understandably, we have a bias, which we'll talk about.

Yes, we do. Okay. So today we are talking about sex while intoxicated. We're talking about the legal stuff here. So alcohol, weed in the states that it is legal. It's not legal everywhere, right?

I don't think it is legal everywhere in the— I mean, we're talking about the US here.

It's legal in California.

It is legal in many states now. I feel like it's the majority, but I could be wrong. But it's in varying ways, you know, like it's like legal if it's medicinal in certain states and legal for medicinal and recreational and they're taxed differently and all kinds of— it's a, it's a whole— it's like the Wild West here. But I mean, if you drive around LA, for example, like there are Like there are probably more weed billboards than there are anything else other than accident lawyers.

Well, even here in Santa Barbara where we live, like it's not a particularly— it's not a big city or anything, but I'm like shocked by the number of dispensaries for how small.

I mean, are you shocked by the number of liquor stores though? Like, but that's interesting because liquor stores just blend into what you expect. Going around like a neighborhood or a commercial area, right? Like, it's just like, oh yeah, there's always a liquor store every couple blocks. So why would you not be surprised if there's a dispensary every couple blocks?

Okay, so today we're going to be talking about like what science and research says, what people's experiences are about desire, touch, communication, orgasm while under the influence.

Yeah, really mostly about sex. Like, not— we're not talking about whether these things are generally good or bad for you. I know there's a lot of talk about that. There's a lot of other people's podcasts that go into a lot of detail about this, especially when it comes to alcohol. We're not talking about that element of it today.

Oh, and since we have not recorded in a while, we should also say we would be so grateful if you could do us a super quick favor. Could you subscribe to Pillow Talk? So if you're listening—

Yeah, don't even stop listening. Just hit the subscribe button in whatever app you're in.

Yeah, little tiny button. Just tap that. I know it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it truly makes a really big difference. Yeah, we are not one of the like enormous podcasts that's raking in a ton of dough off of this. It's a, yeah, it's a passion project. Yeah, it's a passion project.

It might pay like one, a couple bills, maybe.

Uh, yeah, so little things like this really, really help support the podcast.

I mean, if you listen regularly, you're probably like, oh well, why would I need that? I know that every Thursday morning I have an episode, but just hit the follow button. It's so easy. Then like, in case you forget, because maybe you go on vacation for a couple of weeks, then you'll remember.

And if you're feeling like you want to go even above and beyond, leaving a little review or a rating. It depends on what platform you're in. On Apple, you can leave like a written review or a star rating.

Do it every day.

On Spotify, you can leave a, I think, just a star rating, but that really helps as well. So yes, thank you in advance for your support of Pillow Talks. We really appreciate it. Okay, so let's talk about our bias going into this and I'll kind of share like why I've been hesitant to talk about this topic. It does feel like a pretty loaded sensitive topic. Yeah. I think that there's, so our bias is that we are both sober and have been for a while. Yeah.

A number of years.

Yeah.

Have been for a while. Many, many, many years.

So Xander's is sober because he dealt with addiction issues. We have some podcast episodes about that if you're curious to hear a bit more about his story. And I got sober like both in support of you, but also because I was realizing that while I didn't, I wasn't struggling with any addiction issues, alcohol was really impacting me negatively. It actually took maybe about like 10 years where I was slowly like, okay, now I can't do hard alcohol anymore. Okay, now I can't do red wine anymore. Okay, now I can't do white wine. You know, it was like, slowly having to cut things down, but I was dealing with things like my sleep being really disrupted, bad headaches, really bad stomach issues from it. And I just kept getting to this point of like, this is torturous to my body. My body very clearly does not like alcohol. And so I kind of stopped on my own. And then with weed, like I've never been into weed at all. So that's like never, you know, it was like never even really a thing. Have we even, Have we had sex while we were—

Yeah, I'm sure.

Smoked weed?

I'm sure that we have. Or like eaten an edible or something. Yeah, very rarely. I'm sure that we have. But no, you and I together have never used a lot of that together. I, as a, like when I was like 18, 19 and at the beginning of college, I smoked a lot of weed. Fortunately, we hadn't met each other. And actually I—

I would not have been into you.

No, I'm sure you wouldn't. But the interesting thing was I actually, I actually stopped smoking weed, like probably when I was like 19, 20, because I like, you know, like you were describing with alcohol, what started happening to me was— and then because this was also before the era of like vape, there was no such thing as a vaporizer. And there was like, you couldn't do edibles unless you made them yourself. There weren't these, you know, nice like chocolate blueberry things. And I got to the point where like anytime I smoked, I would just start hacking up a lung. And the more I coughed, like, my throat would hurt and I would start to get all paranoid and like feel crappy. And I remember distinctly thinking, how am I ever going to like talk to girls?

That's the concern.

If this is my, you know, if this is my— I was like, look at like how much am I— I'm like, I'm using weed like almost like all the time. And like, how am I going to talk to, you know, how am I gonna like hook up with someone like this? Or, you know, I'm just gonna get— I'm just paranoid. So I was like, I gotta, I gotta stop because I was single then. I wanted to not be single. I was like, I'm gonna be fucking single forever if I keep this shit up. So, you know, that was, that was, that was mostly that for me.

Yeah. So I mean, I've, you know, because of your sobriety and because of my own experiences of alcohol, like just really messing with my body and even weed, like feeling like it really messed with me. I feel like over time I've developed more and more negative views of these substances. And I think that we're seeing that happen culturally a lot more too. Like people are way more sober than maybe they've ever been before. Like, I don't know. I don't know all of history, but like we're very sober right now. The percentage of people who say they don't drink is really high. And like you were alluding to, like, all these studies are coming out now showing even, you know, I think we, like when we grew up, I remember thinking like, oh, red wine is so healthy. You know, like you just have a couple glasses of red wine and that's like how you live longer and it's good for your heart and stuff. And now we're seeing all of this research come out saying even moderate amounts of alcohol are really bad for your body, for your brain, for your, you know, for so many different reasons. But I also think we're getting, like people who do continue to drink, I think there's more defensiveness coming up too around, you know, feeling judged for it, seeing all this stuff come up. And, you know, like if I was still drinking right now and I'm seeing all these studies, like I would feel defensive. I would not really wanna acknowledge all of that. I would feel frustrated by it. So I guess I've been, you know, I wanna be clear in saying we are always, the perspective that we always take is, Everybody's gotta make their own decisions for their own lives. I'm never gonna be the kind of person who says like, "Everybody should do this, nobody should do that, because I'm doing it in my life, that means it's gonna work in your life." So I wanna be really careful in saying like, people gotta make their own decisions and we're totally fine with people making their own decisions about whether or not they wanna take any sort of substances in the first place. But I think it's, yeah, I just feel like a little, I feel a little wary wading into this topic. I have felt, obviously now we're choosing to do it, so I've gotten over it, but I have felt a little wary of like, yeah, I don't want to— how do I talk about some of these challenges and concerns without it coming across as judgmental? And I never want anyone in our audience to think that we're being judgmental.

Well, I think on top of all of that, I think that there's an even bigger bias too, which is We wrote a book about how to talk about sex, and most of what we do is focused on like how to talk about it, how to do it, how to feel more comfortable doing it. And as we'll get into, a lot of the reasons that people use substances to have sex are to short circuit or almost to get around issues that they might be having with either you know, feeling like they need something to jumpstart their desire or they need something to be able to make it feel less awkward or to get out of their head. So we clearly have a bias in that much of what we talk about, our content area, our business is built around helping people be more comfortable. Now, like we don't say, you know, our business is not like, oh, we're helping you have better sober sex. But like the reality is, if you follow what we do, I don't think anyone is— anyone who actually takes our advice and buys our courses and our guides and does all this work on their sex life is going to come away feeling like, oh man, I really need an edible in order to have sex. So I think there's also that bias too, in terms of just what we do is a bit at odds with this, oh yeah, just eat this, just drink this in order to want to have sex all the time.

I will also say Some of the worst sex we ever had has been while we were intoxicated.

Yeah. Like early in our relationship.

I mean, all throughout.

Well, actually, yeah.

I think any time that we had, have had bad sex, the chances are high that one of the main reasons it was bad was because we were intoxicated.

Yeah. And or got into some kind of argument.

Uh-huh.

In the middle of or following sex. Yeah, absolutely. So that's another bias.

Okay. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. The beach, right?

Oh, no, no, I actually wasn't even thinking of that. Oh, really? Oh, you want to tell that story?

I'll throw myself under the bus.

Yeah. That was a rough one. I've really blocked that out of my memory.

One of the worst fights that we ever got into was over drunk sex. That didn't actually even happen. So we were living in San Francisco.

Wasn't even close to happening. It might have been closer. You probably thought it was a lot closer than I did.

We were living in San Francisco at the time and we'd gone with a bunch of friends all the way out to Ocean Beach to have like a bonfire at night. And I think something had happened that day where we were out way longer than I thought we were going to be. Like I had not eaten like all day and that was at the time where I was still drinking hard alcohol. And I was a whiskey girl back in the day. I was like pounding whiskey. And I got so drunk.

I've never seen you that drunk before.

I never have gotten that drunk since that day. I think that was probably the day that I said I can't do hard alcohol anymore. I was extremely drunk and I'm like 5 feet tall. It's, you know, like I get drunk pretty quickly and easily. And I got the idea in my head that I wanted—

I love hearing you tell this story. I also love hearing you say one of the biggest fights you ever got into. 'Cause for me, this doesn't even make the list of the biggest fights.

No way.

Because for me, my entire experience was I've never seen you, I was not nearly on the level that you were drunk-wise. And I'm pretty sure I was like, I was basically sober enough where I was just like, I kind of was just like, she's fucking shit-faced. Like she's just on her own journey here. Like all, like she, whatever, she can be upset with me. My job at this point is to get her home safe in bed. I also— It's a fight from her perspective, it's not a fight from my perspective.

I also want to say too that I like, I always prided myself on being able to stay in control. Like, I grew up being so afraid of drugs and alcohol. My grandpa was an alcoholic and he died of alcoholism. I was the dare essay contest winner in 6th grade. Like, I was such a little goody two-shoes about this kind of stuff. And so even when I did you know, start drinking. It was like, I don't want to get drunk. I'm very like measured and controlled with it. I know I can't even take that much because I'm a small person.

Not that like—

yeah. So this was one of like probably 5 times in my life that I could— even less than that— that I can think of that I was like out of control. And anyways, I got the idea in my head that Xander and I should have sex on the beach, even though there were tons of people around, including our friends. Like, yeah, sure, it was dark, it was night. Like, I, I thought we could have like snuck away.

It was a bonfire. So Vanessa But it was their bonfire. Vanessa leads me away to this area that's maybe 20 feet away from where our friends are in a circle around a bonfire. And it's like, I think that you were wasted and you thought that they were like big sand dunes. It was like little tiny, like a little tiny rise or a dip with some of that like ice plant stuff in it. And you were like, like, no, no one can see, no one can hear. And I'm like, Vanessa, they're right there. There's—

This is embarrassing.

And you were like yelling, you were like yelling like, come on, let's do it.

Oh yeah.

Let's do it. No one can see us. I'm like, they can hear you screaming right now.

So you would not have sex with me on the beach. I got really upset with him. And yeah, that was it. So that was our worst fight, intoxicated fight around having sex. But yeah, we had plenty of other times where it was like, there'd be performance issues or we'd have some sort of miscommunication or we'd start bickering or like you're on different levels of intoxication and it just doesn't feel good and you're disconnected. Like we just had a lot of, yeah, I would really venture to guess that anytime that we had bad sex, there was probably a 90% likelihood that one or both of us was intoxicated. So that's our bias going into this, but we did, I mean, yeah, we did ask our community to share stories and questions with us so we could share, you know, more unique perspectives about it.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I think most people listening to this episode are not listening to this because they're like, they're like, yeah, I love having not sober sex, and I'm really hoping someone's gonna tell me like, hell yeah, this is the best way to have sex, this is the only way to have sex. But yeah, if that was your perspective coming in, you should probably turn off the episode right now.

I love when we tell people to not listen to our podcast. Like, yeah, don't listen. Okay.

I mean, if you made it this far with that perspective, like, I'd be shocked. Like, what were you expecting to happen? But I mean, no, I mean, this episode isn't about like you being a horrible person if you've had a good time. No, no, not at all. Because yeah.

No judgments. We're all about zero judgments.

Plenty of people do have good times. Okay.

So let's talk about why people use substances, why people get intoxicated for sex. One of the main things that we hear is that it reduces anxiety, so makes people feel more relaxed, less self-conscious, that feeling of like, you know, I just want to have the— have a drink at the end of the day to like unwind after a long day. Yeah, take the edge off. Exactly. Um, I would say though, probably the most common reason is lowered inhibitions. People will say like, oh, I just feel like more confident. I feel like kinkier. I can like allow myself to like be more open to sex and like less closed off or less prudish. Like, it makes me feel a little more wild. Um, so that can feel really appealing to a lot of people. I, I think the vast majority of us struggle with feeling confident around sex. Like, we feel some amount of embarrassment, shame, you know, self-consciousness. And so to have something that can like take that edge off and make you feel more confident, like of course that's gonna seem appealing to a lot of people. Also, obviously some people are in it for like the altered sensation. Some people say like, you know, touch. And I think this, you get this especially like with weed. Some people will say like, oh, sensation feels like heightened for me. Time feels like it kind of slows down. So it just like feels, you know, physically like a different experience.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying that alcohol makes things feel better because, uh, it's a depressant and it basically can't— it can really only like, uh, numb what you feel. But that being said, I do think that there are probably some men specifically that would probably— who, you know, might struggle with premature ejaculation that might say, oh yeah, no, once I've had a couple of drinks, I can actually last longer. The issue there is, yeah, you can last longer at the expense of having a worse experience, basically. So, you know, it's like you're covering up another issue. It's like, you know, if you're, if you're struggling with, you know, coming too fast, then let's talk about how we can solve that problem with you still experiencing the same amount of pleasure rather than being like, oh yeah, let's just cut the pleasure in half so that I can last longer.

And here are a couple of quotes that we got from people in our community. Someone said, after eating a gummy, all we could do was laugh. We kept trying trying to be intimate, but there was just too much laughing.

I appreciate the dedication. Yeah, we kept trying. That's— that would be like— I feel like that, you know, it's been so long, but like going back to, you know, what it would be like for me if I was— if we were doing that, I feel like that would be one of those things where I would be like, get really in my head and be like, oh God, I know that we said that we wanted to have sex, but like I'm in no position to— like, I sure hope she doesn't I hope, hope she's not expecting it because now I don't, but I don't want to say anything about it. So good for them that they kept trying.

Another person said, I cannot orgasm after drinking. I can't even get wet. My body just doesn't work.

I feel like we hear about that from a lot of women. They say alcohol really just completely shuts down their ability to have orgasms.

Dry it out. I do not enjoy sex with my partner while intoxicated in any way. But then on the other hand, we heard, "A little weed gets me out of my head and into my body more." And we also heard somebody else say, "Weed helps me be more in the moment and feel more during sex." So let's talk about some of the dangers and challenges of having sex while intoxicated. So I wanna start with impaired judgment. Obviously, like when we are intoxicated, it's harder to make decisions because you're not in your right mind. Your brain's just not functioning the same way that it normally does. So I think most people have had experiences of doing something while intoxicated that they regret later.

Yeah. So, you know, if say I had been just as drunk as you that night and I had been like, oh hell yeah, no one can see us.

Why would you be talking like that?

Because I'm wasted.

That's your voice. That's the voice that you'd use when you're like trying to be a creepy Deepy horn dog.

Oh, sorry.

That's also your wasted voice.

I was doing more of the Californians voice. Oh yeah, let's do it.

That's a deep cut. I don't think most people are going to recognize that reference.

SNL, the Californians. I mean, I'm born and raised in California. I definitely have a California drawl. That's true. But no, I mean, let's say we had done it. I have the benefit of not being that drunk that night and knowing that if we had done it then, you, you know, we would have had sex in front of all of our friends, and you very well might have regretted that decision. Oh, absolutely.

I probably would have been mortified. Like, oh my God, who saw? Who heard? Are they gonna make—

I mean, people might have heard anyway.

Oh my God.

Yeah, that whole situation.

But yeah, I mean, I made a decision that I regretted later while intoxicated.

You could have made a decision you regretted a lot more. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I mean, in my sex life before you, I definitely made plenty of sexual decisions while drunk that I regret. Oh yeah, I had so much sex that I would not have had if I had been sober.

Oh yeah. I mean, I think a very good portion of my, you know, kind of like hookups or one-night stand-ish situations probably would not have happened if I wasn't drunk because, yeah, for me, I, you know, I didn't know this until recently, but yeah, I am a— I want to feel a certain level of emotional connection before I feel comfortable having sex when I'm sober. You know, when I was drunk, all of a sudden that kind of— no, or that, that discomfort would go away and it would just be like, oh yeah, like, yeah, I want to do it. This is a great idea. And so, you know, pretty much all of my hookups, it would be like really exciting in the moment. And the next morning I would wake up and be like, oh, I kind of wish I hadn't done that. I don't know that person at all, and now I'm gonna like see them around, and like, I don't know what to do or say. I don't feel like close enough to talk about this. Yeah, so I mean, that's— yeah, I've lived that one.

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The biggest danger of sex while intoxicated is around consent. Like, consent gets very murky when substances are at play, and I think there's even an argument to be made made that you can't consent while intoxicated because you're at a certain level of intoxication, but there's no line. Like, oh yeah, once you're flat out, yeah, exactly. Like, there's no specific point. And if you're two intoxicated people, it's, you know, that makes it even blurrier too, where, you know, there's not one person to kind of check in like, hey, are you sure about this? You know, you're— I can't quite tell, you're not fully all there.

Yeah. Or at the very, at the very least, whether it's full-on like lack of consent consent is unclear to, you know, a less extreme version of that. But just like misreading signals like that can be very real. And I think that, you know, in terms of the dangers, that makes a lot more sense if you're thinking about like people that aren't in long-term relationships. But I would actually argue that this is one of the more complicated and tricky things is you are in a long-term relationship, you are in a marriage. And I think a lot of us kind of you know, once we've been with someone for so long, it's like, you know, you assume, yeah, like I've given blanket consent to this person. And so it can be really hard if you have an experience where you're like, ooh, I kind of regret that, or I feel weird about that. But like, that's not appropriate for me to feel weird or bad about that because that's my, that's my partner. I love them. Like, we have sex all the time. Like, why, why would, why would I not be okay with something that happened between the two of us? And I think that that can be something that can really eat away at us and kind of erode a relationship or even shut down our own desire or, or sexual identity when we are struggling with like this idea that maybe, oh God, I wish I didn't do something. I wish I had said no. Or I feel like maybe I did kind of send some signal, whether it was a full-on no or a partial no that my partner didn't pick up on and something still happened. But yeah, those are real tough.

Yeah, absolutely. Consent still does exist in long-term relationships and it absolutely can get really tricky when substances are in play too. I mean, we've heard so many stories of people who just had really complicated, challenging situations that they're trying to navigate. The morning after, it can be really scary and tough. There's also, there's something about like not being on the same page too. Like that night at the beach, you know, like I was, I was really into it. You were not. I think also sometimes there, you know, one partner wants to get intoxicated, the other partner doesn't, or you're different levels of intoxication. It's just like, these are kind of all under the umbrella of just, you know, not being on the same page, misunderstanding, misreading each other, misreading the situation. And it can just lead to a lot of, a lot of challenging circumstances.

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Substances can also lead to emotional flattening. I remember that was— I remember having experiences like that with you where I would feel, yeah, feel this sense of like kind of flatness. With you. And like, there were times where I would want to be like feeling really connected or maybe feeling really like adventurous or something. And like, yeah, just feeling that sense from you. And I've experienced that myself sometimes too of like, it just feels like it, you know, it takes the edge off, but it also dulls you. Yeah. And so it can be this strange experience, like feeling that in yourself and feeling that from your partner too.

[Speaker:BRIAN_SMITH] Yeah. It's like you want a certain thing, but then when you actually get down to it, it's like, like, are one or both of you actually capable of that, of connecting on that level?

There's also mood swings. Obviously, that was, that was my issue on the beach, and that was something that would come up for me a lot, uh, you know, when I was drinking in the past too, is like my mood could change really quickly. In general, I tended to be— oh, this is actually something that we didn't even put on the list. But, you know, like some people are happy drunks, some people are angry drunks, some people are sad drunks. So you can be on very different pages in that regard too. I tended to mostly be a pretty happy drunk, but I would also, I think it would just, I don't even describe it. I would feel a lot like it'd be a lot easier for me to snap at something and get irritated or angry or frustrated.

Your tolerance.

Yeah. My tolerance was much, much smaller.

I mean, I don't think I don't know if anyone turns into a tolerant drunk.

Yeah, I don't think so. Poor communication.

Yep.

Yeah. Like you just, you, oh my God. This is one of the challenges about being sober is hearing people get drunk and try to communicate. Like people are just, oh my God.

They just don't hear each other.

People can be so annoying when they're drunk. And I'm saying that with zero judgment because I'm sure. Yeah, I am sure if I could go back in time and listen to some of the things that I said and some of the conversations that you and I had while drunk, like, I would have been so embarrassed. Like, you're just, you're kind of a, people can be kind of a nightmare.

Yeah, just like you shouldn't be operating a motor vehicle, you shouldn't be operating a relationship. Like, you shouldn't be operating an emotionally charged conversation.

Okay, then let's get into like the physical aspects of it too. Alcohol in particular can really blunt your sense of pleasure. Like, again, it's that whole take the edge off thing, but then you can also feel very blunted. So the vast majority of people say that when they're drinking, they don't feel nearly as much sensation. And so that can lead to like, for men, it can be a lot harder to get erect There's a whole phrase, whiskey dick, you know, of like you want to, you're there, you're really wanting to go, but like you just—

just not happening.

Yeah, it cannot get— you cannot get an erection, or you got an erection and then you struggle to keep it, or you get an erection and you can't come.

Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm almost there, I'm almost there, I'm almost there. Your partner's like, I'm done.

Yeah, we hear about that a lot from women, like after my partner's been drinking, like like, you know, it's just going on forever and I feel like I'm being rubbed raw and I like want to stop but I don't know how to. And, you know, it just— yeah, it can be extremely challenging. Um, it can also lead to issues for women and vulva owners too. Like, it's a lot harder to get wet too. A lot of us, it's like much harder to orgasm. It can feel even impossible. That was definitely something that I struggled with. Like, orgasm just felt so much more challenging. And I think the orgasms themselves, even when I would orgasm, like, it it just doesn't feel as good. Yeah, the sensation just isn't anywhere near as good. And let's talk about some potential long-term implications too. You know, habitual usage around sex can create dependence on substance to feel intimate. Like, a lot of people say, you know, yeah, I need to have a glass of wine, I need to have a cocktail before we have sex. And it gets to the point where you feel like you can't have sex unless you've had that. Like, you really become reliant on I need this thing to take that edge off for me.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Like, we talk about, you know, how a lot of people can feel like, oh, I have this huge to-do list that's constantly running in my mind, and I can't possibly have sex until I check all the things off the to-do list. So it's like, weird. It's like, on the one hand, we're like, oh yeah, no, like, having a drink or having a smoke or whatever, like, helps me get over that. But then it's Really what you're doing is you're actually adding one more thing to the to-do list. In order for me to be able to have sex, I need to add the substance. So it's like, is it— I know it feels like you're taking away the to-do list, but you're actually adding to it.

There can also be trust and even safety concerns if there have been boundary violations or misread signals or being on different pages. We do hear, we often hear this the most most from women saying, you know, my partner gets drunk and like really pressures me to have sex. And then, you know, pushes for some activity that may be like, like anal.

Yeah, it's always about stuff.

He gets, he gets drunk and he's like really pressuring me, and then won't drop it. Yeah, won't drop it, won't leave it alone. And then the next day he'll be like, oh, I was drunk, you know, no, I was just messing around. Yeah, as a way to kind of like get out of it or not have to take that culpability. And then yeah, if you feel like you're, you know, you're having this cycle over and over again, like, obviously that can really lead to some longer-term implications in your relationship. And then there's the big issue of avoidance. You know, a lot of people use substances to escape relationship problems rather than addressing them. And there's also, like, I think the— if you feel like intoxicated sex is very fun for you, that fun can mask deeper problems that you might have with substances where you're able to kind of keep telling yourself like, oh, I'm just, I'm just doing this to like have some kinky sex, have some wild sex. And it's not, you know, you're not able to see that there might be a deeper issue there for you.

Or at the very, very least, you might be avoiding any kind of red flags around your own sex life or your own desire like, oh, huh, I am struggling with desire, or I am struggling with init— I know that I should be initiating with my partner, but I'm really struggling with it. But you know what helps? Once I've had a couple drinks, I got no problem initiating. Like, you know, so it's like, am I actually avoiding deeper issues? Or, you know, oh, do I have a lot of, you know, shame that comes up that is depressing my desire or keeping me from, like, making me feel super anxious about doing certain things? Or even having sex at all. And yeah, so yeah, I know that it can feel like a quick fix. It's kind of like putting a Band-Aid on a flesh wound, right? Or wait, is that it? Or no, a Band-Aid on a bullet hole? What is that? Oh my God.

Band-Aid on a flesh wound.

A flesh wound is not something—

Don't ask me for help with an idiom.

I mean, it's like putting a Band-Aid on something when you—

Yeah.

When what you really need is maybe be, you know, a bandage, a surgical procedure. No, a surgical procedure is bad. You need, you know, you need—

where are you?

You need to see an actual doctor, not just throw a Band-Aid on.

I mean, it's all— it also could be like avoiding deeper intimacy too. Yeah, like, you know, I don't, I, I don't want to allow myself to open up in front of my partner, or, you know, yeah, I have to use this as a crutch in order to feign intimacy with my partners. Yeah, obviously a lot of different dynamics can come up.

Yeah, I mean, actually, that kind of reminds me, it's an interesting comparison to the advice that you give women when women ask, "Hey, I struggle with orgasm with my partner, but I can use vibrator, no problem. So I masturbate with a vibrator 100% of the time. Is that a problem?" And the general advice is, well, it's not a problem if you're fine with that being the only way that you're ever gonna orgasm. But I'm pretty sure that that's not fine because you're saying, hey, I'm struggling to have an orgasm with my partner. I would like to be able to experience that with my partner. My partner would like to experience that with me. And so, you know, the answer is, if the way that you make yourself come 100% of the time is a certain way, You've trained yourself to only be able to do it in that way. And I think the same can be true, can be said about any kind of substances. If you are finding that the only way you feel comfortable doing something is by adding a certain substance, or the only way you feel comfortable initiating, or the only way you feel comfortable, like, or, you know, being able to like get the anxiety to go away or get the to-do list to forget about the to-do list or whatever. Then you are creating a situation where you are completely dependent on that. And, you know, so, yeah, like you don't want to be in a situation where the only way that you can do something is a very specific way. So if you find that, hey, it's fun to have an edible every now and then and have sex, great. Hell yeah, keep doing it. Like, who am I to tell you not to do that? If you're finding that, hmm, man, it's really— I really struggle to be open to sex at all unless I do this. That's an invitation to look at, hey, instead of using this temporary solution, maybe it's an invitation to address what is the underlying issue. Because I promise you, there are real solutions to every single one of the things that you think that the alcohol or the weed or whatever drug is helping you with. There are real solutions to be able to have that same experience, if not better. Sober.

Yeah, I think you, you really hit the nail on the head there, that it's, it's the moderation issue, you know, like the— yeah, for some people, not for me sadly, anytime, but for some people it definitely can be an enjoyable experience and, you know, maybe something that you do every once in a while and it, you know, it feels fun and it's a little bit different and it says, yeah, different kind of experience. But if it is something that you feel like you can't have a good sex life without it, or you find yourself like, yeah, turning to it over and over again. I mean, it is an invitation.

I'd say if you're finding yourself needing to do this over 50%, if you're approaching 50% of the time.

That's pretty high.

I mean, I'm, I don't know, I'm trying to make this, you know, not, but you know, if you're finding that more often than not you need XYZ in order to do ABC, that's an invitation to, hey, let's, let's try to figure out if I can, you know, solve this problem.

All right, guys, we got to talk about something, and that is buying seafood. I'm really curious, when is the last time that you really trusted the seafood that you brought home with you from the store? I know that that is something that I have struggled with. It's really hard to tell. At the store, like, is something fresh? Was it frozen before? How many days has it been since wherever it is supposedly coming from? Now, those were the kind of questions that we used to struggle with before we found the Wild Alaskan Company. The Wild Alaskan Company is the best way to get wild-caught, perfectly portioned, nutrient-dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Trust me, you have not tasted fish this good. All their seafood is 100% wild-caught caught, never farmed, and sustainably sourced wild caught in Alaska. When we got our first box of Wild Alaskan, I was so impressed. Like, it is packed with dry ice. Everything arrived super frozen. It definitely could have even been in transit for a couple more days without defrosting.

That's—

I was just so impressed by that part of it. And the quality is next level. This is such good fish. Plus, it feels good knowing that every single one of our orders supports sustainable harvesting practices, which is something that's important to Vanessa and me. And you can try Wild Alaskan completely risk-free. If you are not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan will give you a full refund, no questions asked. So no risk, just high-quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com/pillow for $35 off your first box of premium wild-caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com/pillow for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

You are probably not drinking enough water. So many people aren't. And if you're somebody who struggles to stay hydrated, then we want to introduce you to Cure. They make these clean and simple plant-based electrolytes with no added sugar. They have incredible flavors like watermelon, berry pomegranate, and lemonade. They come in these really convenient little packets. You can just throw a couple in your purse, in your car. Xander takes them when he goes surfing all the time just to like quickly and easily rehydrate. They also have an incredible energy drink mix that has a plant-based 100 milligrams of natural caffeine plus electrolytes for focus and hydration, but without any jitters or crash. That energy drink mix comes in great flavors like peach tea or acai berry. I think you like the peach tea one.

I love the peach tea one.

Yeah, Xander just went on a big surfing trip and you had them like every day, just like multiple times a day, I think, just like trying to replenish all that.

Oh yeah, no, nothing, nothing tastes better than one of these things after 2 hours surfing. So yeah, after, you know, whatever it is, your workout, your activity of choice, it tastes so good having electrolytes. And these Cure packets really just taste so, so good compared to most of the other ones I've ever tried.

Staying hydrated isn't just about water. You also need electrolytes. That's why we love Cure. It's clean and tastes great. You can grab Cure on Amazon or find a store near you at cure- purehydration.com/pillow. Real ingredients, real hydration. Okay, so let's get into some of the questions from our community. I'm going to ask you the first one. Is sober sex awkward at first? This is something that, like, yeah, we do get this question a lot from people who are pretty reliant on substances during their sex life. Like, the idea of having a fully sober sex life feels very scary. And we've actually heard about this from a lot of people who reach out to us after hearing your episodes about sobriety, like on this podcast, and saying like, hey, that podcast really opened my eyes. I'm thinking about getting sober, but I'm really worried about having a totally sober sex life. Like, that sounds very scary.

Yeah, I mean, this is a, this is a very real thing, you know. For us, fortunately for us, this isn't something that we dealt with in our own relationship because we always had had a mix of, you know, even when things were tough for me, we also were still having a good mix of sober sex as well. So, you know, for me, when I got sober, it was not a situation where that was like a foreign concept to me. But yeah, I know a lot of people that I know, you know, from the recovery community have been through that where it's like, oh no, I for the last 5 years have not had sober sex once. I don't know how to do it anymore. And that is a very, very, very real thing. So yes, it is going to be awkward at first, the same way that, say, maybe the first couple of times you have sex when you are a teenager or when you are having your sexual debut, it can be awkward, right? Because it is a new thing. It's a new experience. You don't have the tools yet for how to do that. You're building connection with someone. You know, even if like you are in a long-term relationship with someone and you have sex for the very first time, there's going to be some awkwardness, right? You are still figuring out how each other works and what this new element in your relationship is. So I think the same is going to be true when you switch to having sober sex. Now, I think one of the biggest things, the most important things to get over the awkwardness is, well, one, don't expect it to not be awkward. You have to lean into the awkwardness. You have to accept the fact, yes, this is going to— of course it's going to be awkward. It's been forever since I've had sober sex or I've never had sober sex, whatever. So accept that. And but then two is acknowledge like with your partner, hey, Hey, I'm feeling a bit anxious about this because I've never had— I've never, you know, I haven't had sober sex in a long time. And I'm worried about what it might be like. Just being able to acknowledge that with your partner, that is laying some emotional groundwork, right? Because the more connected you feel to your partner, the easier this is going to go. Most people have been having not sober sex to mask maybe a lack of emotional connection in the relationship, right? Or to kind of jumpstart this, to kind of like throw lighter fluid on the sort of like a low level of emotional connection can be masked by being like, oh yeah, I'm really drunk, or I'm really high. Like, oh yeah, we're so excited about this. So I think that just accepting, yes, it's going to be awkward, and then acknowledging with your partner Hey, here are some of my concerns. Like, let's talk about it. You're going to start to feel closer and you're going to start to realize, oh yeah, the bar is actually going to get lowered the more I talk to my partner about what I'm scared of. Because your partner's probably going to be like, oh yeah, no, like, I'm not expecting this to be like fireworks. Like, yeah, this is going to be a new thing and we're going to figure it out together.

Also, I mean, you and I talk so much about how awkwardness is a part of sex. Like, sex is awkward.

Yeah, I mean, that— and that can be fun and sexy once you— once you begin to love the awkwardness.

Yeah, it's just like being able to embrace that. Like, yeah, sex is awkward. That's just a part of it. That doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. I mean, and awkwardness actually has the potential to create a lot of closeness and intimacy. Like, some of our favorite sexual memories together have been times that were really awkward, and we just like leaned into it, and we laughed together, and we made silly jokes out of it, and we just were like in that moment with each other. I mean, intimacy— the whole point of intimacy is truly seeing each other, is feeling like you don't have to put masks on or act in front of each other. You can just be your full self with your partner. And most of us are just a little bit awkward, so like, why would we not be that way in the bedroom too? So the more you learn to embrace awkwardness and lean into it, it doesn't feel so scary anymore. It actually feels really connecting. Okay, let's move on to the next question. My libido is really low. Should I try smoking weed? No. A lot of people have this idea in their heads that libido— like, that smoking weed increases your libido. And like, I think that that's really more about the placebo effect of it, where people think like, oh, my inhibitions are going to be lowered and I'm gonna— like, my head's gonna— my brain's gonna turn off a little bit. But we don't have any sort of research research showing that weed increases libido, and I certainly would not look at it as like a solution for increasing your libido. We have tons of other Pillow Talks podcast episodes about libido and, and the ways that most people really misunderstand what, uh, libido really is and how it works and the truth about how it actually works. So definitely go check out those episodes, but don't, don't use weed.

Let's say that smoking weed did increase your libido, then would you— like, then what? What would you use that information for? Then you'd be like, oh well, I have to just become a total stoner then in order to have a stable high libido, right? Like, you're not going to want to be like, oh yeah, great, it, it really jacks my libido up and now I just got to be high all the time. Like, that doesn't, that doesn't really really make sense. And again, it doesn't really, you know, it then it means that your ability to have sex is going to be completely dependent on your ability to get high. Yeah, right. So unless that's what you want, which I doubt it is if you've gotten this far in the episode, then that's probably, probably not the first thing to start trying. But I mean, placebo is a hell of a drug. It really is. You might as well tell yourself, well, uh, going to the gym is gonna increase my libido. I mean, cool, because it might. It will.

It will.

It will. But also tell yourself that, like, you know, you might as well tell yourself to do something else that also will be a net positive for you. Because if you tell yourself you really believe that that is going to increase your libido, it probably will just the same that, you know, smoking weed. Because I mean, that's the thing, like you were saying, is a lot of people hear this rumor, oh yeah, no, it's going to increase my libido. So if you start smoking weed going, oh, I can't wait till my libido is higher in 5 minutes, then there's a good likelihood that you will actually feel like your libido is higher in 5 minutes. So just do something else and tell yourself it's gonna increase your libido. Okay, next question: How do I start the conversation with my partner that having sex under the influence makes me feel uncomfortable?

Okay, I would take complete and utter ownership of this and just talk about your own experience. You know, I talked earlier in this episode about how a lot of people can feel very defensive about their usage, and I think if you go to your partner and say like, I don't want to have, you know, sex with you when you've been drinking, like, they're gonna immediately get on the defensive. Now, if there is an actual issue here, like your partner's been, you know, pressuring you when they're drunk, there have been unsafe situations, like anything like that, then that is something that you do need to talk about. And I would highly recommend that you talk about it with a therapist, like somebody skilled to help you guys like navigate that. But I'm just— let's just assume this is a kind of standard situation where it's just like, yeah, I, you know, my partner is kind of obnoxious when they're drunk.

Yeah, and to be really clear, we are not saying that you cannot have a conversation with your partner about their drinking or about their drug usage. No, no, no. You absolutely can. If you wanna have a conversation about that, have a conversation about that. Don't bring sex into it.

Yeah, don't bring sex into it.

Let's keep these as separate things, I think is what we're trying to get at here. Yeah.

So yeah, so in a situation like this, I would just say something like, I would talk about like whatever impacts you notice from your own usage. So maybe it's like, hey, I've been noticing you know, when I've been drinking, I just don't really feel any sensation, or it's harder for me to get wet, or it's harder for me to get an erection, whatever it is. And I'm thinking that going forward, like, I really just want to— I only want to have sex when you and I are sober. And you can say too, like, yeah, it's— I think it would be, you know, personally, I know that I just want to be sober when we're having sex now, and I don't want to, you know, control what you're doing, but it But it just, you know, it can be a little weird when like one of us is sober and the other one is not. So I'm just thinking it might be better overall for us to, you know, only have sex when we're both sober.

Yeah, I think it's fair to be like, you know, and you know, since I don't want to be having sex when I'm not sober, you know, I am aware that, you know, it, you know, there's the level of connection between us just feels a little different if I, you know, if I know I'm sober and you're really drunk or you're whatever. So it's like you're not saying, oh, you're a bad person when you're drunk or you're a bad person when you're high, whatever. Whatever. That's not what we're saying, and I don't think that's what your partner will hear. But you're just saying, you know, because I think everyone can acknowledge that when one person is stone cold sober and the other person is not, it's a, it's a, it's a different vibe, right? I think it's fair to just be like, you know, hey, and yeah, it's a different vibe like that. And it doesn't feel— to me, if I'm sober, it doesn't feel like a sexy vibe.

Yeah. And you— or you could also just phrase it in more positively about like the positive aspects of sober of telling your partner like, hey, I've just noticed like when we're both, like when we haven't been drinking, I feel so much closer to you. I feel like I'm so much more present in the moment.

It feels better.

It feels better. You know, whatever it is.

I feel closer to you.

Yeah, so like it's just so good when I'm sober. I'm thinking that like, that's how I want us to be having sex every time, something like that. So that's another great way to put it. Okay, Xander, how do I handle a husband that only touches me when he is drunk?

Oh, I'm sorry that this is your experience. This is a tough one.

Yeah.

This, to me, this feels like a situation where you're starting to really get into the territory where this might be something good to address in couples therapy.

It's hard to know from like a one-sentence question, like there could be other things going on. Maybe that the husband is just really dealing with like a lot of shame or self-consciousness or embarrassment. I don't know, it's hard to tell. Like, I definitely, you know, I'm, I'm always going to be a proponent for people doing couples therapy. It's always a good idea. But yeah, it's hard to know like exactly what is the root of this issue going on here. Okay, Xander, last question. What do you do if you're the one who's been using substances to get in the mood and now you want to change that?

Yeah, well, I mean, I think this is what— this is why we do what we do. I mean, basically really, okay, let's take the substances out of it for a second. Like, you gotta start thinking, okay, so what— when I am not using substances, what feels like is getting in the way of me being in the mood? Is it that my to-do list is a million miles long and I can't or don't think about sex until, until I, you know, can have that everything on the to-do list checked off? Is it that, um, I, you know, was raised with a lot of shame around sex, or maybe, you know, a lot of religious shame around sex where, you know, I thought sex was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, and then I got married and all of a sudden sex is good, good, good, but like I couldn't flip the switch, right? Like that's an experience that a lot of people have. Is it that you're really uncomfortable initiating sex or you're really scared of rejection and so you don't want to, you know, you don't want to initiate? Like, so yeah, what What is the blockage there? And then I think, you know, then it's starting to think about, okay, how do we address each of those individual things?

I mean, I also like, I wonder if this person is just overthinking it too. Like, and now you want to change that, just stop using substances, see how it goes. Like, you might be getting a little in your head about it, wondering like, oh, is everything going to change? And I need to make it like my sex life is going to be totally different. Like, maybe it Maybe you just stop using them and it's fine.

You might be. I mean, I think, I think another, another thing people really get in their heads about with sex and being in the mood is this idea that I need to be— being in the mood or like I need to be in the mood to have sex and to be in the mood, I need to feel like wildly horny. And I think that that is total bullshit.

Oh yeah.

This idea.

We talk a lot about this. Desires overrated.

I am very rarely wildly horny. Horny until we start doing something. That's when I feel wildly horny, right, is once we start doing something. So instead of being like, oh God, I need XYZ in order to get into the mood, go to your partner and be like, hey, it would be really fun to get in the mood and have sex with you. What, like, let's get in the mood to get— like, what do we do? What, like, what do you do to get in the mood with your partner? Well, you probably start kissing them, you probably start touching them, you start taking each other's clothes off. Like you, you make the mood together, right? So I think that we just so get in our heads of like, yeah, like you need to feel a very specific thing in order to even open the conversation about sex. You can open the conversation about sex whenever you want. You can open the conversation about getting in the mood whenever you want. I think that's the one of the reasons why Vanessa Marin and I have probably more and definitely better sex now, you know, in our 40s than we did in our 20s is because both of us almost always say yes to the other person, even if we are not in the mood, because we see the invitation not as, are you wildly horny and do you want to have sex with me at this very moment? The invitation is, are you open to getting turned on with me? Me right now, and 99.9% of the time we get each other wildly turned on because we, we know how each other's bodies work and we know what we like, right? And I think the same is true for everybody else. We just have forgotten that we have that option.

All right, well, we're gonna wrap it up here. We'd love to know what you thought about this episode. You can leave a comment for us on Spotify. You can come on over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa @VanessaMarin and send us a DM, but we'd love to hear your thoughts. All right, thanks so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.