E260: How To Orgasm Like A Man: Breaking The Blocks That Keep Women Stuck

we're doing this because of socialization, because we've been taught to put others' needs before our own, to not be selfish, to be a caregiver, to, and especially with men, you know, make sure his feelings are okay and his experience is good. But I think, yeah, that bottom line of being willing to sacrifice our own experience is something that men just don't relate to.

Yeah, no, no.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin.

I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. As women, we are taught so much BS about our pleasure and our orgasm, that we are too needy, that our orgasm is too complicated, that we should be prioritizing our partner's pleasure over our own. Like, so much crap that gets into our heads, and all that is absolute crap, total BS, and it's sabotaging our ability to not only have orgasms but to be in the moment during sex and enjoy enjoy ourselves and feel pleasure. And men, on the other hand, don't get any of this crap. You guys get your own shitty socialization, you have your own issues.

Yeah, in specific ways.

Yeah, but I think when it comes to pleasure and orgasm, you don't have nearly the same challenges that we women are dealing with. So we got this idea for a podcast episode because Xander and I were having a conversation the other day about body image during sex. And I was asking him like, can you even, we have had this conversation years ago where I asked him like, do you ever think about like how your body looks during sex? And the way that he like, he looked at me as if I was speaking a different language.

Like, that I don't understand.

What do you mean?

Totally foreign language. I've never heard in my life before.

He was like, why would I be thinking about how my body looks during sex? Like that makes no sense to me whatsoever. So we were revisiting this conversation the other day and I was telling him like, I think, I want you, like, the next time we're having sex, to actually try to be self-conscious about your body and, like, see what that experience is like for you. And it kind of got me thinking about making a whole episode out of, like, how do men respond, or how would they respond, to the orgasm blockages that we women have to deal with on a regular basis? And kind of, like, how as women How can we think more like men during sex? Or how can we orgasm like men orgasm? So we turned to Instagram. I put a question box up and asked women, like, if you struggle to orgasm consistently with your partner, regardless of like what your specific circumstance is, like, why do you have that struggle? What gets in your way? And so we took all of those responses and I kind of put them into a couple of categories and And we are going to ask Xander to speak for all men, of course, as we always do.

So you want me to mansplain is what I'm hearing. You want me to mansplain female orgasm to you.

No, I don't want you to mansplain female orgasm. I want you to explain the male experience.

Okay, mansplain male experience.

No mansplaining, just explain.

A man explains male orgasm.

Can a man explain without mansplaining?

That's a good question. I'm not sure.

It's like the proverbial, like, if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? Can a man explain without mansplaining? Okay, but really though, I do want to give a little disclaimer that we always try to give when we're doing these episodes. Like, obviously Xander is just one man and there are billions of men on the planet. Like, obviously he's not speaking for every single man, but because of the work that we do and the size of the community that we have, like, we do hear from thousands and tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people, like on a regular basis sharing, you know, their most intimate thoughts and opinions and things that they haven't even been able to verbalize to their partner yet. So, you know, we've got some knowledge in this area, but I also want to egg-knowledge that, of course, you know, men are not a monolith.

No, we are not.

Okay.

We're diverse as well.

Okay. So what I've asked Xander, Xander doesn't know any of these either. I didn't let him look at any of them because I wanted to get your like, yeah, just raw natural reactions. But I did tell him like, I want you to think about it in a couple of different ways. Like, what would it feel like to imagine you having this blockage or like men having this blockage or like how would a man respond to this or what advice might a man give about overcoming this blockage? Like, what do men have to teach women about this? And like, that sounds awful. Wait.

You really back yourself into a corner there.

No, I want to be really careful.

It's not what do men have to teach women, it's what could women, what could women learn from how men approach something that in general we assume that men don't have the same level of challenge with as women.

And I, like, I always want to start from the place of like, this is all socialization. You know, you have not gotten the same sort of socialization telling you like, you're too much, you're too needy, that's too complicated, don't ask for what you want, just try to be easy. You know, so this is all— it's not that men are better than women. It's not that men are like inherently better at these things. It's like we've been given very different lessons growing up. Okay. So let's start with, this is definitely one of the top 3 responses that came up.

Oh, we're just jumping right in.

We're getting right into it. Yeah.

We're skipping the foreplay.

We're going right into it. It's, I'm distracted by my body. I get self-conscious about what my body looks like. I'm worried about what he's thinking of my body. All the body image concerns. So, I mean, we can even start with maybe in your own words, you can recap what that conversation was that we had. About this?

Yeah, I mean, it just like, honestly, the first thing is just a feeling of sadness. Like, it's sad to hear that. It's sad and almost deflating because it's like, oh man, like, if you are thinking about that, and I'm not talking about you, Vanessa Marin, but just you in general, like, I think that's the person that you are having sex with. If you, if they are thinking about that, I know they're not having nearly as great of an experience as they could have. And also, you know, sex is a team sport. So it's like my teammate is having a bad game. Like how— like even if I'm at the top of my game, like as a team, we can't— we can't have the best game. Like, so it's sad because I'm like, oh, we are like, we're only scratching the surface of what capable of in terms of the experience we're both able to have during sex. So that's why it's like, I'm sad for you. It's also deflating. So I'm like, oh, we're like, we're not having the best sex that we could be having. And it's especially sad and deflating because I have— I'm like, I'm really trying to search my, like, my memory and like recall even like the earliest sexual experiences that I had, I, I don't think I can say I've ever once been distracted by my body during sex. I don't think I've ever had, oh, wonder what I look like in this angle, or I wonder, you know, what she thinks about this. And, and look, I also want to call out that I did not have the best body. In my—

I would say you didn't have perfect body image.

Yeah, I didn't have perfect body image. I was unhealthy skin and bones until I was about 22, 23. Yeah, I mean, if I'm being critical of myself, I don't think my body was much of a looker until recently. Oh, bud.

That makes me sad to hear you say that.

But what I'm saying, though, is that, yeah, yes, yes. Like, men, men also deal with body image issues. But I've not ever thought of that during sex because honestly, like, once the sex starts, like, I'm getting excited about sex. I'm getting excited by your naked body. I'm getting excited by what we're going to do and the experience that we're going to have. And everything else fades away.

Do you think that men have critical thoughts of women? You know, because that's what we're thinking. Oh, he's going to think my boobs look weird because they're kind of hanging over or they're going into my armpits.

I'm thinking about that's like your boobs are bouncing around or they're like, like I'm, I'm making them things go all over the place.

Them things.

Like if they were just sitting there not moving, I would be like, this is a problem. Like what's, what's going on? I'm not doing this right. There's another piece of this too, which is I think this is easier to see in a, in a long-term relationship. But I can also give an example of like in a hookup situation where it feels like the stakes are higher. But like there's— I think there's also an element for me where it's like my partner has already chosen me. They've already consented enthusiastically to having sex with me. So why would I be concerned about how my body looks? Like they already know, like they already know what they're getting. And they still want to have sex with you.

Okay, I know that a lot of women would respond to that. Yeah, he liked my body when I was in my 20s and I was way hotter, and now I've gained weight, I've had babies, things don't look the way that they do anymore, but he's trapped with me.

That— oh, that's— this feels like something that is just like an unwinnable. But like, honestly, I'd flip that back around. Why, why are you with someone that you don't believe really is into you? Because, because it's, I mean, it's like at the end of the day, I feel like men get trapped here. They're like, no, I think that you're beautiful. And then you go, oh, I don't believe you. Why? Like, why would he want to be in that type of relationship? And why would you want to be in that type of relationship? I just, I feel like I have to get a little harsh on that one because it's like, it is a no, you're putting him in a no-win situation. And that is why most men withdraw and they go, 'Oh, okay, well then I— it's not safe for me to even compliment you about your body.' And then, and that, and then that is the dynamic. I mean, I think that this is a dynamic of many women's own making of, 'Oh, well, he never compliments me.' He probably doesn't compliment you because you accuse him of lying to you when he does. True. So yeah, that, that's, that's a crappy one, but What I will say is that, yeah, it's like for me, I'm like, yeah, you, you want to have like you already said, yeah, I initiated sex or you initiated sex like you wanted to have sex with me or I initiated sex with you and you said yes, you are bought in. I'm already validated, right? Like I'm pre-validated. You've, you've already said like, I want to have sex with you and, you know, the body that you are. And even in like a, you know, outside of a relationship, if I rewind the tape to early on, like in a hookup type of situation, I felt the same way where it was like, you know, hey, like, I've already, I've already, you know, gotten to know this person, you know, however much you've gotten to know them on a one-night stand, you know, like we've, you know, with our clothes on, we went from talking to kissing to, you know, the bedroom. And like, she wants to do this. She's already choosing me for what I am. She's not— she didn't give me a conditional yes. Yeah, I'll have sex with you, assuming I like what I see once we get your clothes off. Has anyone ever said that to you? Right? Like, that would be crazy. They're saying, no, I want to have sex with you. I don't— like, I don't— regardless of what happens once you take your shirt off. And yeah, no. And I've never had the experience of someone saying, yeah, I want to have sex with you. And then we get started and they take a look and go, oh, never mind. And I'm assuming most people in a relationship have not ever had that experience with their partner where like, How crazy would it be 10 years into your relationship, you're going to have sex and your partner goes, oh, you look different, I'm not gonna do this. Like, that's not— if that's happening, that's a separate issue. You got to get into some therapy. Honestly, that's probably the end of your relationship. But that is not what is happening in 99.9% of relationships.

Okay, next one. I'm thinking about my to-do list. Do men think about their to-do lists during sex?

I don't think so. Um, I honestly, the way that my mind works, I'd be curious what other men think about this. But I do think that in general, men are not as to-do list oriented as women. Like, I do think that, yes, men absolutely have to-do lists. For me, it's like I need to have a physical to-do list. Like, I outsource that to my phone because my brain does not do a great job of like, "Oh yeah, I got these 10 things to do and I just innately remember what the 10 things are and what order they're in." It doesn't work like that. I am a much more in-the-moment kind of brain where I'm observing things and, "Ooh, that doesn't look right. I'd better go fix that." And it's either, and the decision is, am I gonna do it now or am I gonna do it later? And if I'm gonna do it later, it's either, "All right, I'm gonna put a reminder in my phone or on my calendar to do it later if it's so important that it's gotta be done." or I'm going to put it into that, that weird short-term, long-term memory thing where maybe I will remember and maybe I won't.

So, I mean, do you ever just have a random thought of like, oh shit, I forgot to make that doctor's appointment during sex?

No, because I think the other thing with men—

How?

I think the other thing with men, like I kind of alluded to this in the last, in the last, in the last question. But once, seriously, once I get aroused, it's like curtains are— if you think of, you know, curtains are closing on my perception of what else is going on in the world. And the only thing that's going to undo that is like a knock on the door, the doorbell rings, the, you know, the phone rings, something where it's like where there's a threat to like, oh, I'm— we might get caught, or I, I gotta get up, or, you know, something like that, or, you know, whatever, like there's danger. But otherwise it's like, yeah, it really is. Literally, it is like curtains are closing where I'm like, oh, I got one thing on my mind, one goal, and that is what I'm focused on. Do you, do you, do you not ever have that experience during sex? What about like once you're— say once we're like, you know, halfway, you're starting to get closer to orgasm.

Like, we were just talking about this this morning. There's a huge relationship between our attention and our enjoyment of sex. Like we are, so many of us spend our days so mentally distracted and then we want to get into the bedroom with our partner and we feel like we're supposed to be 100% focused and in the moment. But it's like if you've been training your brain all day long to not be able to focus on anything, to not be able to pay attention for longer than like a 10-second reel, it is so hard to drop into that moment. So, you know, I've worked a lot on my mindfulness and my ability to be present in the moment. And so for the most part, I feel very present in the moment with you. I do definitely have a random thought that will pop into my head. Like, oh, I forgot to make that appointment. I have to remember that. And what I've learned to do is to really just like acknowledge the thought and then just bring myself back into the moment rather than like, oh my God, why am I thinking about this doctor's appointment during sex? I'm having such a hard time focusing. I'm such a bad person. I'm blah, blah, blah. You know, I just like stop the distraction. Distraction there. Okay, let's move on to the next one. It's hard for me to get into the mindset of focusing on me. And this one is really all about socialization. Like, as women, we're taught that we're supposed to put other people's needs above our own, and even during sex, that we're supposed to care more about, like, our partner's experience and what they think and what they're going through rather than our own. I think the subtext of this one here is that it feels selfish. So I'm curious, like, what's your reaction when you hear this? Oh, that is hard. It's hard for me to get in the mindset of focusing on me.

Oh, so the subtext is because focusing on me would be selfish.

Do you ever feel selfish focusing on your pleasure?

No, I feel like the point of sex is for us to both feel pleasure and ideally to both come to orgasm, and that does require— sometimes it doesn't require a lot of focus. On me. It's just gonna happen. But sometimes it absolutely does, especially if I'm trying to, you know, get onto a similar timing as you or something like that.

Okay, hold on, maybe this sounds like a weird question, but like, do you think you deserve orgasms?

Yeah, that's why I have sex. Why else? Why else would I do it? I think if there was not— if there was not much— if there was 25% of the current experience that I have in it for me. I'm not sure that I would do it. I mean, it's also just part of that drive. It's instinctual. I don't know how to describe it any other way. It feels like it is written into my DNA. I mean, it is, I think. But it literally is instinctual. Once I get started, it's like, "Oh, I'm getting mine." But If I just wanted mine, I would do it myself. Well, I want our— like, I want us to have the experience. That's why I'm in it with you.

There was a different comment that to me kind of falls into the same bucket. Someone else wrote— all they wrote in the box was just, I feel awkward. And I think there's something for us women about like claiming our pleasure that it feels like— it feels uncomfortable, it feels not right, it feels like entitled, like it's a bad thing. 'Oh, focusing on me? I'm not supposed to focus on me.' I think a lot of women will hear you saying, like, when you— when I asked you, do you deserve orgasms? Like, I think a lot of women will kind of like internally cringe at that word 'deserve.' Like, 'Oh, what, deserve?' Like, does that feel a little entitled? Is that like too strong? I don't know, I'm just like happy to be here, whatever, I'll take whatever I can get.

And then every married man and man in a relationship would hear that and cringe internally, like Oh shit, that's what's going on. Like, that's not what I signed up for.

Mm. Say more about that.

I mean, I also want to flip that around. You were saying, oh, the subtext is focusing on me would be selfish.

Yeah.

So would it also not be selfish if you go, oh, well, I'm not going to think about me at all. I'm just going to focus on you. That's also selfish. Like, it's selfish for only one person to be getting the focus. Right. So you've been— oh, I feel so uncomfortable focusing on me. I'm going to selfishly just focus on my partner.

No, I don't think women would think of that as selfish. I think that they would think of it as being giving and a good partner. I'm just going to focus on him and make sure he has a good time.

I mean, that is not what I— at the end of the day, I don't know how to say this more clearly. That is not what I am in a relationship for. I did not get married for that. I don't know how to say it any more clearly. If that is the type of sex that we had been— that we were having, and if that was your attitude, I wouldn't— we would not be at coming up on 18 years together. I don't think that I would have made it past, I don't know, 4 or 5 years with you.

It's actually 19 years. But, uh, okay.

Oh, well, okay, we are. Are we? Wait.

We're coming up on 19.

Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. We got the marriage number of years wrong over the last year. And so now I'm like—

15. We're coming up on 15 married. Yeah.

19 together. Oh God. Yeah, you're right. So yeah, it has been 18 years. There's no way that— Yeah, I just— either I would be just totally miserable, like white-knuckling this marriage or— but yeah, I don't, I don't think that, I don't think that I could do that.

Okay, I'm gonna like forcefully stop myself because I feel like I could— we could go, we could do a whole episode on each one of these things. But I want to—

but on that one, I would be— I would just be really curious for the men out there listening to this, send, send me a DM, DM us, and let us know, like, Vanessa and Zander, do you agree? Do you agree with us on that? Or leave a comment if you're on Spotify or whatever. You feel comfortable doing. I would be really curious, like, do you feel— do you agree with me on that? Like, that's not what you signed up for. Or are you like, oh yeah, no, I mean, whatever. It's like, I'm okay with it as long as I'm getting some. Like, I'm just curious. I'm curious what you think about that, because I do think that's a power— like, if that is the case, I suspect that most men in long-term relationships would say that. And I do think that's a really powerful learning if everyone is writing and being like, yeah, that is not what I'm here for. There's a valuable lesson in that.

Okay, let's talk about a couple of technique-based blockages that come up for women. One woman wrote, I've never had one, so I don't know what it takes to get me there. So I'm curious specifically to hear from you, Let's imagine an alternate universe where you and I got together and you had never had an orgasm before and you weren't sure, like, what you needed to get there. How would you approach sex with me?

I would approach it— I would want to approach it as an opportunity, something exciting that we could do together of figuring this out. Now, I do— look, I totally understand, because if I view this through the male lens, this does feel like a scary thing because men are supposed to be the leader when it comes to sex. We're supposed to know what we're doing, right? And so I— if, if somehow, you know, if somehow we met when we met and I'd already had some number of sexual experiences but I still didn't know how to orgasm and we were together, I totally understand there would be a high likelihood I would feel really scared about that. But I also think that if I think through the lens of, hey, we're in a really loving relationship where we are able to be honest and vulnerable with each other, like if there were some new sexual experience or something that neither of us had ever had together, that that could be something where it would just be a fun, like, hey, let's play around with this and figure it out.

Okay. There was also another woman who said, I can only orgasm through oral. If you could only orgasm through oral, how would you approach sex with me?

And that's if we're going to say that's just how it is and that can never change. How would I approach sex with you? Or if that's where we are at, but we are looking to open up the variety of orgasms that are possible, how would I approach it?

I'm imagining the latter.

Okay.

Yeah. And so obviously what this question is getting at, and also I forgot to acknowledge that a lot of this episode is very heteronormative. Of course. Um, but in male-female relationships, you know, we have this idea that intercourse is the home run, it's the main event, the other stuff like doesn't count as much, it's the foreplay, we do it before we move on to intercourse. And so a lot of women, you know, oral actually is the most reliable way for women to orgasm. Yeah, for the vast majority of women, intercourse is actually the least reliable way for women to orgasm. So I think a lot of women are in this position and they think of it as this big problem. That, oh, well, I'm not doing it from the main thing. That's an issue.

Yeah. Well, I guess I can answer it both ways. Let's, let's say that there's this weird theoretical world where I, as a guy, I'm just physically incapable of orgasm from any, any way other than oral.

Mm-hmm.

Let's just say that that's the weird theoretical world that we are living in. Well, I think the way that I would approach sex is I would have a number of conversations with you. Okay, so this is 'After all these years, I've really come to realize that this is sort of the situation that we are in.' I would have a conversation where you kind of put the cards on the table and be like, 'So this seems to be what the situation is. Now, I understand that oral isn't necessarily— it's a bit one-sided because unless we're doing 69, there's not really that much there's not much of a way for you to be getting very much stimulation, if any, while we are doing it. So I'd want to talk about, okay, so how, what would feel like the most fun for you in terms of approaching this? Like, would you rather that we, you know, I don't know, I guess we could say in this theoretical world, you can, you know, you can only, or your preference is to orgasm from intercourse. So I would talk about, okay, so, you know, we could, we could do intercourse for a while until I get you off and then, you know, would you be open to then switching to oral to get me off? Would you rather get me off first and then I focus on you? You know, and talk about how do we want this to look given the situation that we're in? That being said, I think that for the most part, people can learn to have a variety of orgasms from different types of activities. It is very common that I think women are like, oh yeah, well, this is the only way that I reliably orgasm. And if you're not open to having kind of a learning mindset, an experimental mindset with your partner of, hey, we got to kind of try some new stuff and question the way that we've been going about it, it can feel like, oh, well, this is just the only way it works. So if that were the case for me in this theoretical world where currently I can only orgasm from oral, I think that, you know, then it would be a conversation of, hey, I currently, I seem to only be able to orgasm from oral. I would like to find a way to orgasm from other things. So could we try some stuff out? Maybe let's start with, you know, would you be open to like giving me some oral to get me really close to orgasm? And then maybe we switch to intercourse or, you know, try something else to see if once I'm really stimulated, can I get there? Or can we try, you know, try experimenting with going back and forth between, you know, we'll do intercourse for a couple of minutes, then you'll go down on me for a couple of minutes. Can we think about how we together as a team could approach this problem. Because I think that the issue is that most people think, oh, if I need to learn to orgasm in another way, like that the ask is, oh, we gotta just, we gotta, the entire sexual experience has to be in the other way rather than like, oh no, we can still do oral. We can use this as a tool to get you close and then try to give you the experience of a different type of stimulation to see if we can get you over the hump with that.

Well, okay, so there was another woman who wrote, I learned from you guys that most women don't come from intercourse, but that's pretty much all we do. I think that what's really going on here is there's this hesitation that women have to do the things or to make space for the things that feel the most pleasurable to us. So I'm wondering if you can like quickly speak to that, like if there was one specific activity that brought you the most pleasure, that was the most reliable way for you to orgasm, how would you think about making that a part of your sex life?

Yeah. So let's make another theoretical example where let's say that the only way I am capable of getting hard is oral sex. Right? I think maybe that's a good sort of thought experiment or something where I'm like, okay, so in order for me to, be able to start doing other stuff with you, I need some attention paid to me. So I think that would be a conversation of, hey, like, it's, I, it's really exciting when you go down on me and that gets me really excited and gets me really turned on and excited about doing other stuff. Because I mean, really, it's like, okay, I have two options. I can, I can assume, oh, that's going to be too much for my partner. So I guess me getting hard is just off the table. So I guess all we can really do for sex is I can give her orgasms with my hand or with my mouth and/or with a strap-on, and that's about it, right? Like, my experience isn't going to happen. Or I can ask for what it is that I need and have a chance of having a satisfying sex life. And it's sad, you know, I think it is unfortunate so many people are making the first decision instead of the second decision.

Yeah. Okay, now I want to ask you some from our third category of blockages. These are like relational blockages, like things that come up within the relationship. Um, one woman wrote, I'm worrying about what he thinks about the taste and smell of her vulva and vagina.

That makes me so sad. That makes me so sad because I legit want to bathe in it. Because honestly, I think that most men who are truly comfortable with their sexuality cannot get enough of that taste And that smell. And, you know, there's so many like sit on my face jokes. They are not jokes. They are legitimate requests. Like, please just lay me down and put it on me. I don't know how to be any more clear than that.

All right. You heard it from Xander. Okay. The next one. He's using the wrong technique and speed, but I don't know how to tell him that without hurting his feelings. This is such a big thing that comes up for us women. Like, we're so nervous about giving any sort of feedback.

So instead of the possibility of hurting his feelings, you're going to settle for a subpar sex life in perpetuity with your partner. If he knew that that is what was happening, I think his feelings would be a hell of a lot more hurt about that than about the technique. I mean, the other interesting thing about this question, the person is not saying he's using a technique that I don't like, but I don't know what the right technique is, so I'm stuck. This person, I think, is saying, I know what it is. I know exactly what I want him to do. I know exactly what I would like him to be doing, but I'm not going to tell him. Imagine, like, let's, let's phrase this question slightly differently. I know what he needs to be doing in order to give me an orgasm, but I'm not going to tell him.

It's not malicious. Like, yeah, we don't, we don't mean it in a malicious way, but that's just, again, it's a socialization. It gets in so deep. Like, I can't. Give him feedback. He's a man, he'll get insulted. He'll think he's doing a bad job. I don't want to hurt his feelings. Yeah, I know it feels better for us to try to protect you.

Okay, so this is a really interesting question because I, I've reread this a couple of times. The question is not, so the technique that he's using on me, it's not very pleasurable, but I don't really know what the right technique is. And so I feel stuck. This is, he's using the wrong technique and I don't know how to tell him that. I think that the implication here is this person knows what the right technique is and they, and yet they feel uncomfortable sharing that with them, with their partner. Like, so yeah, I do understand. I understand that. Yes, of course, there are certain ways that you could share that information that would be more likely to be to hurt his feelings. But I think there's a lot of ways to share it.

Like, yeah, you're like, what you're doing sucks. Stop that.

Yeah, there's a lot.

Obviously that's going to hurt his feelings.

But there are way more ways to share this that won't hurt his feelings or could maybe even make him feel excited about the opportunities there are. What I do think though, which a lot of women don't consider, is you are keeping information from him that would allow both of you to have a better experience in bed. And in fact, you're keeping information from him that would let him know that the thing that he's doing is actually not very enjoyable to you. That would, that would, that would suck to know that I've, for however many years I've been doing something that you don't enjoy, I'm continuing to do something that you don't enjoy. I think really the potential for hurting his feelings for like not having the, the best sex that you guys could be having, not allowing him to do what it is that is going to bring you the most pleasure, like that ultimately has a way higher potential to hurt his feelings long term than a single like, hey, like, let's just redirect this and do something that I'm really going to love.

It relates a lot to the next one that we had, which is someone else wrote, I've been faking them for so long, I don't know how to break the cycle. It's that same idea of like not really you know, not sharing that feedback with your partner. And I want to be really clear, like, this is never malicious. It's not like women are like, I want to figure out how to fuck with him and how to hurt his feelings. Like, we're doing this because of socialization, because we've been taught to put others' needs before our own, to not be selfish, to be a caregiver, to— and especially with men, you know, make sure his feelings are okay and his experience is good. But I think, yeah, that bottom line of being willing to sacrifice our own experience is something that men just don't relate to.

Yeah, no, no.

I mean, it's that, yeah, it's that it comes back to that word deserving too.

Yeah.

Where I think there's, yeah, I really want to encourage women to see that there's, we can be deserving of something without it slipping into entitled territory. Like, you don't have to be a jerk to your partner. You don't have to be selfish or self-centered, but you can still be deserving of having pleasure and enjoyment.

And in fact, I think that the vast majority of men would say it would be super, super hot for them if their partner was like, hey buddy, let me— I'm gonna— I'm taking charge tonight and I'm gonna show you exactly what I want.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I think that the vast majority of men— I'm not saying that that's like that, that secretly is what we want 100% of the time at all. But it's like it would be super, especially if that is not the vibe at all in your relationship. I think that most men would be like, oh, you want to, you want to take charge tonight? Fuck yeah.

I think it's really just all about your delivery. Like you were saying earlier, like, tell me what you want.

Fuck yeah. Like, imagine a guy being like, you want to tell me what you want? Gross. I tell you what you want. Like, that's not— no one is saying that.

Yeah, I think that's so— it's just all— it's truly all about the delivery of it. Obviously there are ways to give someone feedback or to ask for something that are like gonna hurt anyone's feelings, like regardless of the gender, but that's not the one and only way to share that kind of feedback. I also want to speak to one separate other piece of this too. Like, we're talking— we, we did make the assumption that this woman knows what she wants because she's saying it's the wrong technique, it's the wrong speed. So obviously she has some idea of like, I want it to be a little slower, I want it to be a little faster, whatever it is. But I think another big concern that comes up for women is feeling like we have to know exactly what to do and then tell you exactly what to do. Like, we have to write out this you know, these specific step-by-step instructions that if you follow them, I guarantee I'll have an orgasm. And that's a different kind of pressure that a lot of us feel.

Yeah, I mean, I think that most people would be like, wait, so we got to— we have the opportunity to figure this out together? That sounds exciting. That sounds like we're gonna have to have a lot of sex because we're gonna have to experiment with a lot of things. That sounds like we're gonna have to talk about what is exciting to you in order to figure out what is really the best. Like, that sounds exciting. I mean, man, like, I think back to, I think back to, you know, kind of like my teenage years and, you know, going through the coming of age sexually process. And I feel like I, I had a lot of fantasies of like, man, it would be, it would be so cool to like have a girlfriend or I mean, heck, just have someone where it could be like a discovery process together without it feeling like I got to figure this all out on my own. Now, I didn't get to have that experience. I did have to figure it out on my own. But I remember for a long time being like, man, it would be so cool to get to have that. It would be so hot to get to, you know, to like get to be in a relationship with someone where we got to like learn each other like that. And I think that most people would probably say that they have thought about that at some point in their life, right? And it's like, that is literally the opportunity that's in front of you. So what if you, you know, who cares if you're 30 instead of 18 when that's happening? Who cares if you're 40, 50, 60, whatever? Like, it is an opportunity to hit the reset button. And get to have some new experiences together.

One of the best things that Xander has ever done for me is get me to be more serious about my hydration. I did not drink enough water, and now thanks to Xander, I do. But I think a lot of people don't know that hydration is about more than just water. You also need electrolytes. And that's why we love Cure Hydration Packs. They're plant-based electrolytes with no added sugar. They have amazing flavors like watermelon, berry pomegranate, and lemonade. They don't taste artificial or too sweet and come in these super convenient little packets. Throw some in your purse, put a few in your car, you have them in your gym bag, so that way you can get hydrated and refreshed wherever you go. They also have an energy drink mix that has 100 milligrams of natural plant-based caffeine plus electrolytes. So you get focus and hydration. No jitters, no crash.

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I almost stopped you from recording and was like, just smooth that other side of the part.

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Uh, well, I mean, okay, when that happens, I'm like, oh, okay, so now I get to have at it.

Like, oh, not, not like I don't need to worry anymore. Oh, well, she came first, so now we're done.

Yeah, no, I'm like, oh, okay, now, now it's my turn. Literally, like, okay, cool, it's my turn. I don't need to focus on her anymore. Okay, I'm gonna focus on just getting this done. And actually, I would even say like that kind of feels exciting for you because it's a different experience because most of the time we're, you know, we're in it together. So it allows me to have a bit of a different experience.

Yeah, because when you're having sex with your partner, like when you're focusing on both giving and receiving at the same time, like that, there's an intimacy to that. That's a beautiful thing. And sometimes it feels really nice to be like, oh, I just get to focus on receiving right now.

Yeah, so that is definitely an option if he orgasms faster than you. It could be like, all right, buddy, like now, now I'm going to sit on your face, or now you're going to go down on me, or now you're going to use your fingers on me, or we're going to pull out this toy and, you know, you're going to do X, Y, and Z. There is— that is absolutely an option. But I also think that, okay, so he's orgasming faster than you. This is an opportunity for you, just like I was saying a second ago, about hitting the reset button and having an opportunity to explore together. This is an opportunity to change the, the, the general sequencing of the way that you have sex. So if he's having orgasm faster than you, I'm assuming you guys are having intercourse. You're going to intercourse very quickly and then he's pounding away and he, you know, is not lasting as long as you might need in order to get there. Or the intercourse is really just not super pleasurable for you. So it sounds like this is a sequencing problem. You guys have an opportunity to actually help him last longer and make the experience last longer, which I think a lot of men feel like kind of alone in this of, oh God, I'm supposed to last for a long time, but it's really hard. And they don't really necessarily feel like they have a teammate in helping them last longer. This is a, hey, let's find a way to make this experience stretch out. So How about you spend 5 minutes just on me before we even get started with, with you getting stimulation to give me a head start? Or let's, let's play around with edging you. Let's get you close. And then I'm going to— then, then I'm going to hop off and you're going to focus on me for a couple of minutes. And the moment you start, you know, it's like you can play around with like, you know, okay, most men can feel the moment that they start. You know, there's a like they start going from like super duper rock hard to like very slight, like starting to lose the erection. There's a, there's a bit of a period of time. It's not like there's not like it's not like you flip a switch and you go from super hard to soft. And that is a really good opportunity for extending your timing is you're like, okay, I'm going to pull out and wait. I'll focus on you. And most men can feel the second that it starts to change. And then that means, all right, we're back to the races. There are some real opportunities there. I think that what most men do, they feel really bad about not lasting as long as they think that they're supposed to, but then they don't see any reaction from their partner and they take that as like a tacit validation of, oh yeah, this is okay. And I think most men desperately want it to be okay. They want the sex to be at least okay. They want to— they want their, you know, the amount that they last to be at least okay. And the problem is in a relationship that goes on for a while, they, they have this false sense of, okay, yeah, no, I think that this is okay. And so you don't want to come at him and be like, this is not okay. You need to last longer. But you can go, hey, let's experiment with the sequencing of things to get me a little bit more of a head start. Or let's play around with something of like, let me know when you're 90% of the way there and then we're going to pause for for a minute and see how that goes, right? There's so many options here, but you got to be able to suggest them to your partner.

Okay, and let's wrap up with the last one. So for this one, you know, whenever we do these like Xander speaking for all men episodes, a lot of times we'll get messages from women saying like, okay, Xander's just a unicorn, or like, you know, obviously you're there and he's just trying to impress you.

So it's the only reason I do this podcast, to impress you.

So I wanted to, for this last one, I wanted to hear from our community of men. So here was this last one, and this was by far and away the number one most common response we saw from women about what gets in the way of your orgasm.

So this will be the real test. Am I really a unicorn? Or are there actually other men out there like me?

So women said, I picked one specific one, but this was like the general theme in by far and away the majority of the responses. It just all feels like too much, too much time, too much energy, too much to ask for. So I took that and then I posted on Instagram and I said, men, what do you have to say?

Men, have at it.

Have at it. What would you say to a woman who feels this way? And I'm going to read you their responses. And I want to tell you, I did not cherry pick these responses.

This wasn't like 1 in 10 responses were this. This was like all the responses.

The only responses that I didn't pick to read were women who accidentally were responding in that box instead of the previous box about like what's getting in the way of you having an orgasm. This was genuinely like the entire box. And I had to stop myself at a certain point because I was just screenshotting all of these and I wanted to read all of them.

We were trying to start the podcast and I needed Vanessa's phone to put it in the tripod to record and she's like, no, no, I'm still screenshotting.

They are going, you will see. They're going to be repetitive and there's going to be a central theme that emerges.

You need the repetition to internalize this.

Exactly. I was like, I don't care if these sound repetitive. I want women to hear this. So I'm just going to read these, all of these to you. Or actually, maybe you should read all of them.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay.

I will free my calendar and do whatever is necessary to give her an O if she wants. The pleasure is in the pleasuring, not the taking. Oh, that is such a good one because I think that, yeah, a lot of men will settle for taking because it's just not happening. But that is not, again, is not what he got into this relationship for.

Oh, that's such an interesting idea. I'll settle for taking because I think a lot of us women think of men like a lot of us think that men are selfish in the bedroom. And I wonder if a lot of men are settling sexually.

Yeah, a lot of men are settling sexually.

To check in the role of taking.

A lot of marriages and relationships are settling jointly sexually.

But I think it's just such an interesting thing to think of. Like, I'm settling for being in the taking role. We think of taking as being this very selfish thing versus like my partner won't allow me to give. So all I have left is just to take. That's so interesting. Okay. Keep reading.

Write that one down. I think there's something for you there. Absolutely worth the effort. Feel free to give direction as well. It is hot and it helps. Sure is. Putting in that effort is what makes it fun and rewarding. The time I spend pleasuring you are the best times of my life.

Wow.

Yeah. I mean, sex is like a peak experience, so wouldn't it be even more peak seeing your partner have the same, if not better, experience than you, since women really are capable of probably a more pleasurable orgasm than most men. Next up, we are not in a rush. That was in all caps. We are not in a rush. So stop putting pressure on yourself and just lay back and enjoy. It prolongs the experience. We get more time together and we both finish. That's a triple win. It's a labor of love and enjoyment. So relax. Take as much time as you need. You deserve it, honey. There's no rush. There's so much pleasure in the buildup. The O means it's over.

Interesting.

Doing the work to get her there is a huge part of the appeal. He wants to go to work sexually, guys. I'll be the judge of that. Just let me know what you like. It's never too much. It's more time we get to spend together doing fun things. Like, no, you know what? I'd rather get back to my to-do list than spending an extra 10 minutes in bed with you having sex.

This is the reframe, but I want you to finish these first.

There is no too much. We enjoy helping y'all get there, whatever time it takes. Enjoy. Take your time. I like to watch it happen. Yes, men are visual creatures. We like to watch whether we are watching, whether we are participating, like, oh man, the effort is the fun part. Taking too long is not a problem. We like to take our time pleasing you. No matter how long it takes, we get pleasure out of pleasing you. Take your time. Again, it's like that is, that's why we got into a long-term Committed relationship. I'm in no rush. Take all the time you need to get there. Pleasing you is the fun part. Perfect. Let's slow down and take our time. Why rush it? I could spend an hour plus on my wife. Taking longer means we get to spend more time doing what we like. Definitely not a bad thing. Wait, I get more time with you? Torture me more.

I love that one. That was one of my favorites.

And finally, take your time, baby. I got you.

Honestly, like, hearing those, it's got me a little choked up.

Yeah, like, go off, babe.

Just thinking of the younger version of myself, you know, I've talked about my own orgasm struggles really publicly of having years where I couldn't get there with a partner. And, you know, I felt all the same things that so many women feel— the self-consciousness, the embarrassment, the feeling like you're broken, and the feeling like being too much. And yeah, just to like see all of these responses. And what really caught me about these responses is it wasn't just like, it's okay, it's fine. Like, it's all right, I'll do it. Like what really struck me about these responses was like, I enjoy the act of it. Like it's more time that we get to spend together. Doing something that feels intimate and connecting. It's not like, fuck, okay, I gotta— 30 minutes, okay, fine, I guess I can do it. It's like, I— like, the more time we get to spend being intimate together, the better. Yeah, I just think that's such a powerful reframe for women, and I really hope that every woman listening can internalize that. Like, taking longer means we get to spend more time together.

He wants to spend more time with you. He wants to put more effort in for you. Like, how does that make you feel?

Can you let him? I think a lot of it is like he's trying to give you a gift, and can you let him? Okay. Yeah. I hope that that's hitting you as much as it's hitting me. I just think those are really, really beautiful words to be able to hear.

You were choking down a couple of tears right there.

I mean, yeah, that, that younger part of me who spent so long She deserved to hear that. Sacrificing, yeah. Sacrificing herself and feeling like she couldn't.

I'm sorry that you were not able to get that from somebody.

Okay, so I have talked publicly about my own struggles with orgasm before and that once I finally, finally figured out what I needed to do to start having consistent, reliable orgasms with my partners, I realized like, I need to do something about this because when I was struggling, even though I was in the sex therapy field, I could not find any genuinely useful resources. It was all the same generic, like, just don't think about it, just relax, just let it happen. And I'm like, okay, I'm trying to do this, but I've been doing— I'm not orgasming. So over 10 years ago, I created Finishing School, which is a complete step-by-step system for learning how to orgasm consistently, reliably, and in more ways than you thought possible on your own and with your partner. I was tired of watching women suffer in silence without any of the information. I know so well, like, what it's like to go through, and I wanted women to be able to start having the pleasurable sex that you will actually crave. You know, why would we have high libido for sex that isn't really very enjoyable? It wouldn't make any sense. So since then, thousands of women have gone through finishing school. It's been profiled in major magazines. BuzzFeed called me the orgasm whisperer. It's just been such wild success. So this course, this is not just random advice from the internet. You will not see just relax or just let it happen. This is a proven methodology that's been built from over 20 years of working with real women. And the exciting part, we just completely revamped Finishing School. We've done this like several times throughout the, the history of the course, but we completely rebuilt it from the ground up, and it is actually built around 3 core modules that we already touched on in this episode. So mindset, this is where we dig into like the mental and emotional blocks that keep you stuck in your head, the pressure, the anxiety, the body image stuff, the beliefs you didn't even know you were carrying. Like, we don't just talk about them, you get actual guided practices to release those.

Yeah, there's stuff that we actually have to unwind because it's been so socialized into us. It's, it's not enough to just say, oh, you shouldn't feel that way, right? Like, you can tell yourself that.

It doesn't—

it doesn't work. You actually have to go through a real legitimate process to deprogram that.

Then we get into technique, which is— I can't call any favorites because I love all three of these modules, but as somebody who was struggling for so long to find actual techniques, I'm really proud of this module. This is where you learn my finishing formula, which is my proprietary 4-step framework, plus my core techniques, these specific techniques that are most likely to get you to orgasm. So whether you are building your orgasm for the very first time or expanding on orgasm, like maybe you can only orgasm with a vibrator or only orgasm in this one specific position or only on your own but not with your partner, like this module covers everything where you will not ever hear, oh, just try stuff. Yeah, just explore. And then the third module is partnership. So whether you're currently in a relationship or kind of thinking ahead to your next relationship. Like, you learn the specific ways to get there with a partner, and there are unique dynamics that come up with a partner. Like, there might be more self-consciousness, there's worrying about what he's thinking, that he's orgasming too quickly. So we cover all of those specific dynamics. We've redesigned the entire program so it's adaptive to your specific needs, challenges, and desires, and you start exactly where you need to start based on what's actually blocking you right now. We also have these incredible bonus lessons that we've created. There are deep dives into body image, overcoming shame, toys and tools, and finishing school for partners. And we are also going to be hosting 3 additional live bonus calls for anyone who enrolls before Monday, May 18th. So you'll have your chance to ask me any questions that you want to ask, get personal coaching and support, and get to be in a community of other women. The women who join finishing school are the best. The best. Like we've done these live rounds of it before and they are seriously the coolest women in this community, but it's all also private and anonymous.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that is a testament to just how successful this program is, is, you know, women who have joined the course like 5 years ago will still show up to these calls because they are so fired up to see other people going through the same thing and to lend their support.

And we also have a 30-day money-back guarantee that I want to mention too. So there's no risk. Like, get in there, try it out, do the work, and if it doesn't feel like the right thing for you, like, I have no interest in keeping you stuck in something that doesn't feel like the right fit for you. But the main thing that I want to share is like, yes, this is a course that's all about orgasms, and you absolutely will learn how to have orgasms in so many ways, in any context that you want. But really, like, like this isn't just about orgasms. This is also about coming home to yourself, about claiming a part of your life that has been waiting for you. You deserve to feel good in your body. You deserve pleasure, and you deserve the tools to make it happen. So we would love to have you join us inside Finishing School and discover the step-by-step techniques that are proven to get you to orgasm consistently and reliably. You can head to vmtherapy.com/orgasm to learn more. We will also I'll put the link in the show notes for you. And truly, like whether you join finishing school or not, obviously I would love to have you in there, but whether you join it or not, I hope that you can walk away from this episode knowing you deserve all of these things. You deserve that pleasure.

Yeah.

You deserve enjoyment. You deserve having the same experience as your partner is having.

Like you do, your relationship does. Like everybody deserves it.

All right. That is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.