Episode 116: What Do I Do When My Partner Is Always On Their Phone?

Due to the addictive nature of the phone, it's so easy to underestimate our own usage or to minimize it or, you know, or we gonna be like, oh, well, I know I had a positive intention. Every single time I pulled my phone out, I needed to look up this, I needed to do this, I needed to do that. But, like, your partner's not in your head.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander.

I'm Amanda Marin.

I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Cozy Earth for supporting our podcast. Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for our Pillow Talks listeners today. Get up to 35% off site wide when you use the code pillow talks@cozyearth.com so this weekend we were doing a little bit of spring cleaning. Xander finally got around to a project I've been asking him to do since we moved in. So one entire calendar year, he cleaned.

Out the office closet and you contributed a bit.

Oh, I did. But it was your task to do. It was all your boxes and cords and weird electronics.

Some of it was your stuff, though.

Okay. So one thing that we found, though, is a bag that Xander kept. This was your idea to do.

It's been my idea all along, and I think it is going to be finally paying off.

So Xander thought it would be entertaining to keep all of our old phones.

Except for the ones that we obviously, sometimes we sell them back. Like, you know, if nowadays, like, I know nowadays, you know, we don't have a bunch of old iPhones because, like, you sell it back and you save a lot of money getting the next one. But there was a time when your.

Old phone was trash.

It was trash. It was not worth a cent. I mean, I think, like, yeah, there was a time where technology was improving so fast, it was like, yeah, that two year old phone, Nobody wants that.

Yeah, so. So we have a bag of every phone that either of us have had in almost 16 years together. Pop quiz, Xander. What phones did we have when we first met and started dating?

Okay, when we first met and started dating, I. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I got this. I had. I had the, like, Sony Ericsson Walkman phone.

Yes.

And Vanessa had a. A Razr.

No.

Oh, it wasn't a razor. It was. It was an lg. Was it an LG something?

I think it was a Samsung. It was one. It was.

It was kind of Razer.

Yeah, we don't have it. That's the one phone that we don't have. Because I think I had to get rid of it, like, shortly after we started dating, before we started this project. But it was a slider.

Oh, yeah.

Remember that? Like, it. It slid up.

I think my. I think my Walkman phone was also.

A slider and it was like a T9 thing. It wasn't.

Oh, yeah, mine.

It didn't have, like, the sideways keyboard. Like, what were the Sidekick or something?

Yeah. You weren't cool enough to have a Sidekick.

No, I had the old school T9 slider phone. So today we are talking about the impacts that your phone can have on your relationship. But we wanted to share this little story here as a bit of a disclaimer that, you know, we're dating ourselves here, obviously, but we started our relationship in an era before smartphones. So our first text to each other, we're little, like, tapping out, like, four times to get to the S and then two times to get to the B. You know, like that. That's wild to think back to.

Yeah. I mean, we started our relationship in a time when no one would ever make a podcast episode about this topic. I don't even know if there were podcasts back in 2007. No, there probably were. I think there were. That was back when it was, like, in itunes on the, you know, iTunes app on your computer and. But yeah, like, no one would record a podcast. No one would write an article. No one would really talk about because you couldn't really do much on those phones. Like, I had the Sony Walkman phone. I could listen to some music. That was pretty cool back then.

I think I got the first smartphone out of the two of us. I got a. I had a BlackBerry.

And we have that.

I have two blackberries.

We have that BlackBerry in that bag. It's. It's pretty big. It's. It's a. I cannot. It's heavy. It's clunky.

I love the little roller pad. Oh, my God, the roller pad.

And people used to wear those out Memory lanes. People used to wear them out and have to get them replaced. Oh, my God. But, yeah, I mean, that. That was the beginning of. I mean, that was the end. Well, yeah, it was the beginning of, you know, starting to notice, like, oh. Huh. Like our, you know, our habits are starting to differ when it comes to phones all of a sudden. Vanessa can type with two fingers, like, fairly quickly. There were some very limited web browsing capabilities on that. On that BlackBerry.

Oh, my God. I was just thinking about texting. I wasn't even thinking about the web browsing aspect of it.

We didn't.

You couldn't get on the Internet on our phones.

Yeah, no, you could. I. I do remember, like, not on my slider, you know, on. On, like my Walkman phone. You could. That was like a very crude mobile web, but it was like, so what? But there was no such thing as a mobile version of a website. And so it was like you would load a website if you could. Like, if you were lucky, you might be able to happen to see the information that you were looking for. I remember spending like 10 minutes one time because I was like, I was in a different city and I needed to find a certain type of store, and there was no such thing as Google Maps on a phone back then. And it was like I, you know, was searching around. I spent like 10 or 20 minutes looking for some very rudimentary piece of information because I didn't have a phone book and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, I mean, that was. That was what it was like back then. So it was such a pain in the ass. Like, you. You wouldn't just sit there on your phone unless you wanted to play Snake, listen to music, or literally talk to someone on the phone.

Yeah. So we did not have to worry about this for like a. A couple years into our relationship, I think. And even then, like, yeah, the. The capability that you had to surf the Internet on a BlackBerry is nothing compared to what iPhones are like these days. And I think that a lot of us, you know, us included, like, we've had for sure had disagreements over phone usage, but yeah, just the difference in now having the entire Internet and every bit of information and entertainment available to you at your fingertips in milliseconds. So I think lot of us are just struggling to keep up with the technology and to keep up with the impacts that it's having on our relationship.

Or just to be thoughtful about. Oh, what does this. This is a new. A relatively new thing in. In the scheme of things. Like, how is this going to impact my relationship? This is a really cool thing. I enjoy doing it. I like this app or I like this whatever. But like, yeah, how does it actually impact how I'm showing up in my Relationship is this, you know, is this a positive or a negative or. Or a gray area? And what do we do to try to figure that out and make sure that we're both, you know, on the same page and feeling good about things? And I know we already talked a bit about, you know, how much phones have changed and our usage of phones have changed, but if you're just thinking like, oh, well, it's not really that big of a deal. Right. Like, I don't look at my phone that much. We do have some stats for you. And the average American checks their cell phone every six minutes. That is about 150 times per day. That is a lot. I mean, that is. That is a shocking number. And I mean, you might be thinking like, oh, well, I mean, well, I don't have a watch anymore, so my phone is my watch. So I'm just checking it for the time. Hey, I think that sometimes. But then if I really am honest about what I'm doing. Yeah, I check the time, I slide my finger along the screen, see if there's any notifications for me. Yeah, you know, oh, yeah, I finger that, finger that screen to get, you know, to, to see, oh, did anybody message me? Are there any interesting news articles that broke in the last five, six minutes? Since six minutes was the last time I checked my phone, you know, maybe I will expand the notifications. Oh, what else is there? You know, it's like it's so easy for us to just kind of slip into a little bit more than we intended to. And we also asked our Instagram audience, 42% of our Instagram audience said that their partner is on their phone too much and they think it's a problem. So this is a real thing? It is more than just, oh, I'm looking at the time. Oh, I'm just seeing if I had a missed call.

Yeah. I mean, your relationship with your phone can hurt your relationship with your human partners so much more than you realize. After sex, money, and kids, phones are the number four reason why couples fight.

Wow.

So, you know, fights, the fights about phone usage just don't feel good in the moment. But. And it can also cause a lot of resentment to build over time. I think a lot of people start feeling like they are not as important to their partner as a measly chunk of metal and plastic. And that really hurts. So in this episode, we are going to break down simple ways to create.

Better phone habits that aren't just throw your phone away. I just want to be really clear because I think it can be easy. It can be easy to get into this sort of black and white thinking about this, where it's like, oh, they're. If they're talking about, like, how phones are bad, like, what do you want me to do? Get rid of my phone? I just want to be really clear before we, Before I even get into the review of the week, like, I want to just be super clear that none of our advice is stop using your phone. We're not going to tell you to not use a certain app or not do a certain thing. It's just about. It's about, like, working with what we have. I think we are. We are in acceptance of the fact that, hey, phones are here to stay. The Internet is here to stay. There's a lot of good things that come from having, you know, basically, like, all the world's knowledge in your pocket. We're not telling anyone to throw it all away. We're just gonna talk about habits that we can build so that we can do a little better when it comes to our relationship. And with that, I already alluded to it, we're getting into the review of the week. So helpful, encouraging, and funny. After nearly 14 years of marriage and lots of kids, we definitely know how to make them.

Oh, man.

There's like a sweaty smile, a cry laugh, and a monkey hands over the monkey face, but the monkey's covering its face. Whatever. I've still learned so much from the podcast and we have had a blast trying new things and laughing together. VNX are so enjoyable to listen to, even if I always accidentally call them Zanessa and a couple. Oh, my God. What do you call that phase where you like. I don't know.

That's not phase called, like, oh, what.

Do you call it, babe? I'm doing it for Vanessa.

It's like nervous, like the toothy smile.

Yeah.

Mountain toothy nerves.

Toothy nerves.

Like, oh, God, now I'm blanking too.

How do you grit your teeth?

Yeah, like a teeth gritting smile.

Gritting your teeth is like, oh, something bad is going to happen. But maybe they're worried we're going to get them. We're going to get mad at them for calling us Zanessa. I like that. I think that's cute. I have recommended this podcast to many people and will continue to keep up the great work.

Guys, thank you so much for this review and for recommending the podcast to your loved ones. That means a lot to us.

It does.

Every little thing that you do for the podcast, it really does make such a big Impact. You know, we do this podcast totally for free. We want to be able to give you all these resources and tools and it really helps us so much. Helps the podcast be able to reach new couples if you do things like recommending it to your friends and of course, leaving reviews like this. So if you've never left a review before, it's very simple. You go to the Apple Podcast page for pillow talks, scroll to the bottom and you'll see the review section and you can very easily, like, rate it. Leave a little review. And we do this giveaway every week as a thank you for taking the time to leave a review. If you hear your review read in an episode, you can email us@infomtherapy.com let us know the name that you left the review under the username, and we will hook you up with your choice of one of our masterclasses. Absolutely. For free.

All right, so let's get into it. Vanessa. We also polled our Instagram audience and I was like, have you and your partner ever argued about phone usage? Right. Because we've been talking about how, you know, it could be a problem, but, like, is this really a thing that people are arguing about? And 13% said, Nope, it has never been an issue. Just 13%. Then 37% of you said, we've talked about it, but we haven't necessarily argued about it. 36% said, yes, we at times argue about it. And 13% said, yes, we argue often about it. So that's very interesting. Only 13% of people say, nope, not an issue at all. So that's. Yeah, 87% of people like, it is something like there's something there, whether you are arguing like, you know, having bad arguments about it or like you're just talking about it. But I mean, the fact that, you know, 36% plus 13. So that's what, 40, 49%. Almost half of people have argued about it.

Next, we asked about the impacts of phone usage on relationships. So we asked, what's the worst impact of your partner's phone usage on your relations? The biggest annoyance or the most inappropriate time they've been on their phone? So one of the most common answers was scrolling while eating dinner or scrolling during date night. This was so common and people got really frustrated by this.

Hey, we've been there ourselves.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Next up, and probably next most popular after that, scrolling while eating or dating time in the bathroom. Scrolling.

We're gonna come back to this one. I've got a question for you.

Yeah, I think I have Some explaining.

To you on this one. Always picks up their phone mid serious conversation. It feels like they're saying, I don't care about what you're saying on the phone.

Instead of watching the baby or on the phone around kids.

Oh boy. Totally disengages around my family by scrolling.

Oh, I've been, I've been there on that one. We've had a conversation about that before.

About you being on the phone while.

Yes, about me. My partner says we don't have enough time for intimacy, but then they always have time to mindlessly scroll that.

I think that this dynamic is probably evident in 99.9% of relationships.

Yep.

I think it's very easy for us to say that we're too busy and especially like too busy for intimacy or too busy for quality time. And like, of course, the vast majority of us have very busy lives and we're also spending a fuck ton of time on our phones.

We're really good at filling in little gaps of time that we have and then conveniently forgetting about those gaps of time when something else comes up that maybe could be good for us or that could, you know, we're like self improvement or whatever and we justify that. Saying we don't have time. And then it's like, yeah, but if someone was following you around with a stopwatch, like timing what you're doing.

Oh, I mean your phone is. You can look at your phone and see how much time you spend on that.

Very true. Yeah, I know. Yeah, look in that, look in that. What is it on your screen? Time. And see like, oh, like how much time on Instagram, how much time on TikTok.

Yeah, I think that is actually the most, like one of the most insidious things about phones is that now we have this, you know, personal entertainment device in our hands at all times. And so like I do this constantly. I'm like walking from the kitchen to the bathroom. And so I like pull out my phone and I look at something in that, like, you know, 15 second walk that I have over there. And it's just we use our phones like in any tiny little gap of time. And it like sometimes it feels like we're being productive. Like I'll have time where, oh, I'm waiting, you know, I have a couple minutes before an appointment, so I'm just gonna pull my phone on, answer a few emails or respond to a few DMs. Like we feel like I'm being so productive. I'm squeezing something into every little pocket of time. But those little Pockets of time. Those tiny pockets of time that we have throughout the day are actually so valuable and so important to just do nothing during. Because if you are literally doing something every single second of every single day, by the time you get to the end of that day, you're gonna be so overwhelmed and overloaded. Like, it's not actually that productive. And it's not actually, like, stealing little moments of time like your day, and then you're training your brain to need to have some sort of entertainment or information in front of it at all times. So if you're somebody who's complaining, oh, I get distracted during sex, or I can't stay present in the moment, it's because of your phone. Yeah, like a hundred percent is because of your phone.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, that also reminds me, it's like, yeah, if you're feeling every little moment of the day with those little things on your phone, then, yeah, at the end of the day, like you said, you're gonna be exhausted and overloaded, and you're also going to have that feeling that, like, oh, I need even more time now to, like, unwind or to relax and like, like, you'll be like, oh, well, like, you know, oh, I just need to sit on the couch for an hour. But then you do that and you're back to the phone again. It's, you know, it's like, it's this vicious cycle where it's like, you're not act like you. You feel like, oh, God, I really need to unwind. But then you don't actually unwind. You unwind using the thing that got you to the place where you are. So, yeah, I mean, and also the other thing that I thought of, as you were describing, that is like, like, yeah, the phone really is this entertainment device in your pocket. And I think one thing that I've been doing for myself a lot more recently, I think that has been helpful is that, like, I think it is important to recognize sometimes, like, yeah, it is an entertainment device. And okay, yeah, if I am using it as an entertainment device, like maybe watching a TV show or something, like, as I'm doing something else, it's important for me to recognize that and be like, oh, like. Like I am watching a TV show or I am, like, having some amount of entertainment, because it's easy to get into this sort of mindset of like, oh, well, like, I want to, like, sit on the couch and watch a show for two hours or something. But then I'm like, well, I maybe watch two hours of A show, like, throughout my day doing other things. And so it's like, I know it's helpful for me to kind of remind myself, like, if I get to the end of the day and I'm like, oh, God, I didn't have any time for me or. Or time to unwind, I can remind myself, oh, wait, actually, you did. You spent a lot of time doing this. You watch, like, two episodes of the show that you're watching, which is probably what you would have done at the end of the day, you know, if you had sat down on the couch to watch it. So, like, that's helped me to kind of be in more acceptance of, like, yeah, I. I am having that time. For me, I'm just. I'm just like, that time is staged differently throughout the day than it may have used to be in the past.

And we also had the response. My partner gets on the phone immediately after sex. So overall, people are just feeling left out, disconnected, irritated, and they feel unloved and unimportant. So let's talk a little bit about why this is an issue. Like, why do we struggle with our phone usage so much? First and foremost, we have to point out that phones are just addicting.

Yep.

The average American spends five and a half hours on their phone every day. And honestly, that, like, feels low to me by how much we hear people complain about this. And 44% of adults in the US say that not having their phone gives them anxiety. I talked about this a moment ago a little bit, but I think that our phones really contribute to us struggling to be present in the moment. Like, we've trained our brains to just constantly be doing something. Constantly be needing some sort of input. And so in the moments when we have a bit of stillness, like when we're trying to have quality time with our partner or have sex with our partner, it feels like we can't turn our brains off.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's why it. It can be so valuable and so important to have some kind of. Whether it is a ritual, a time of the day, or an activity or a hobby that you do that doesn't need to have anything to do with a phone. I think that can be so valuable. And, like, you know, for. For me, you know, I. I probably spend two hours surfing, like, like three to four times a week. And like, yeah, I don't. I don't have a phone with me out there.

You can't.

I can't. I can't.

Actually, if you could.

You know what I saw? I saw A guy with an iPhone around his neck surfing, like this winter. It was in one of those. It was in one of those like dry bags sort of. I mean, it doesn't really matter. IPhone's waterproof, but, you know, it's not great to be in salt water because that's corrosive. But yeah, he had it like in a thing. He was like taking video with it and I was like, are you, are you kidding, dude? Are you kidding? I used to wear an Apple watch surfing just to track, like for fitness tracking and like wave tracking. But like the salt water kept corroding it and they kept sending me new ones, but I gave up. Now I just have like a. I have a more old school, like waterproof digital watch that does like some, some minor tracking and just tells me what the time and the tide is. But it's really nice. It's really nice to, you know, have a chunk of time where I know I'm not going to be on my phone. Like all. All I know is what time it is and it's really nice. I feel like that helps kind of break that cycle in your brain of like, oh, constantly having the capability to look at something or whatever. So if you struggle with this, I would encourage you to define something. It doesn't have to be like a sport where you physically can't have a phone. It could just be like, oh, I go on a walk every day for 15 minutes and I leave the phone at home or whatever. But just something that forcibly, you know, helps you break that connection.

I think another dynamic that comes into play is that we're really good at convincing ourselves that our behavior isn't that bad.

Or it's like not as bad as someone. Yeah, as our partner or someone else.

To focus on our partner's behavior than on our own. And like, when it comes to our own behavior, we can find ways to justify each little incident. So it's like, oh, I was just checking something really quick or like, I was looking at this before you started talking to me or, well, I need time to unwind on my phone before I go to bed. Like, we justify ourselves, but then when it comes to our partner, it's like, oh, my partner is always on their phone.

I can definitely acknowledge that I have been guilty of this in the past. So the way, you know, the way that I first noticed this with myself was actually very early on in our relationship. It was kind of almost pre smartphone era, but I think this is totally applicable in any era. And I will tell you why. But basically you know, like, Vanessa had a BlackBerry before I did, and, you know, she was able to type and be sending emails and sending, like, you know, actual long text messages. And that was just something that you couldn't really do on an old school T9 word phone. And so I created this story that, oh, well, Vanessa is the one that's always on her phone. Vanessa's the one with the BlackBerry. It's, you know, like the crackberry thing back then, it was like, everyone with blackberries is addicted to the BlackBerry. Right? So I developed this total blind spot towards myself in the coming years as I got a smartphone because I just had it in my head of, oh, well, she's always the one that's been on her phone more than I have. And I wasn't able to notice until a long time later, like, oh, maybe I use my phone now just as much. Maybe I use my phone even more at times. And I think this can come up now as well. I'm thinking of like, oh, a new social media app is out, and maybe your partner got TikTok before you did. Did. And you're like, oh, God, like, oh, my. Like my. My girlfriend, my wife, like, she's always on TikTok, like, that's not me. And then, you know, eventually you get TikTok and you're not even paying attention to how long you're on TikTok, because in your mind, you're like, oh, well, like, oh, I. I just use TikTok a little bit. Like, my wife is the one that's, like, really into TikTok. And I think it's just so easy to sort of dilute ourselves. Like, once we have that story of, like, oh, well, they use their phone this way or they use this app, you kind of forget what you're doing yourself.

Absolutely. So we also want to make sure we're being fair and balanced here and point out that there are pros of having a phone and using a phone even though you are in a relationship. Like, Like Xander was saying, the advice here is not, like, throw away the phones. No technology ever again. And I think if we can all be thoughtful about trying to use our phones in ways that contribute to intimacy, that can really help. Like, yes, if you guys make an effort to decrease phone usage and be more thoughtful about it like that, that's obviously going to help. But also, if your partner sees you making the effort to use your phone to create intimacy, then that gets us out of this story that, like, oh, phones are evil, and, you know, they're just terrible. So you can use your phones to contribute to conversations. Like maybe it's reading interesting articles together, showing, like sharing pictures, like reminiscing, looking back at the pictures from earlier in your relationship.

We do this all the time.

Maybe, maybe it's listening to pillow talks together or to the audiobook version of our book Sex talks Together.

It can be having a shared calendar or shared reminders. This can really help, especially with balancing mental load, making sure everyone knows what they are doing without needing to be asked or reminded.

And of course, keeping you connected when you're not together. Obviously couples in long distance relationships, or if you have any period of your relationship where you are not together, like, obviously you're going to rely on your phones.

Oh man. I mean, I can't imagine how much better. I'm not going to say easier because I don't think easy is a good term to use for long distance. But just how much different? Any type of long distance, whether it's, you know, a trip or, you know, it's temporary, it's a couple months. How much different that is with the ability to like video chat?

Oh, yeah.

Like, I mean, I have been in, you know, kind of one time in college, had a long distance arrangement and it is, it's like, it's wild. The, the idea of like you're not, you're not going to be able to see a person other than a picture that you brought with you of that.

Person in your wallet folded up.

It sounds crazy now. It sounds absolutely crazy to say that. But like, yeah, it was like, yeah, fold it up in your wallet. And by the, you know, by the end of like semester abroad, it's all creased and faded like that. That was the world we lived in.

All right, so let's now get to the real meat of this episode. Suggestions for how to minimize the impact of phone use or the negative impact. Yeah, the negative impacts of it. So first and foremost, you are almost always going to hear us talk about having a conversation. It's all got to start with a conversation. But you and your partner need to talk about the impacts that your phones have on the two of you and your relationship and most importantly, the relationship that you want to have, have with your phones. So remind each other that you are important to each other and you want to minimize distractions and be more present with each other. And you want to really focus on using the phones to create that intimacy rather than taking away from that intimacy as part of that conversation. I also think it's super important to take responsibility for your Own habits. We all have bad habits with our phones. That's okay. But if you go into a conversation like, okay, we need to talk about all the issues with your, your usage, you're on it too much. You're da, da, da, da, da. Like, of course your partner's just instantly going to get defensive. That conversation is going to go nowhere.

Yeah, you got to have some curiosity and open mindedness about yourself and about how maybe you have some blind spots or maybe, you know, the way that someone else, AKA your partner perceives you is maybe going to be different from the way that you perceive yourself. Especially around phone stuff. I think it's so important to realize, sort of due to the addictive nature of the phone, it's so easy to underestimate our own usage or to minimize it or, you know, or we gonna be like, oh, well, I know I had, I had a positive intention every single time I pulled my phone out. I needed to look up this, I needed to do this, I needed to do that. But like, your partner's not in your head and you're not in your partner's head and you know, as you might think you, you know what your partner's doing is problematic and your partner might think the same thing. You're thinking about yourself. Like, oh, well, I had a good reason every single time I did that today. So I think it's just so important to have some curiosity and open mindedness.

Yeah. And as part of this conversation, come up with a plan. So we are about to share with you a big list of possible boundaries and guidelines to have around phone usage. And we would suggest picking like one to three, maybe four of these to try out. Like, try them out for a week and then have another conversation where you evaluate like, okay, how did that go? What worked about this? What didn't work? What do we want to shift? What do we want to try next? Like, so working together over time to come up with a plan.

Yeah, because you can do, you can do and you, you can implement or you can try. And then if you decide to want to permanently implement, you can continue to do more and more of these over time if you want to. I think the key is that, yeah, trying to, trying to go from like, okay, we don't really have any rules or boundaries or whatever to like, Here are the 10 things that we are now doing starting tomorrow. That's really hard to do. It's a lot easier to try one or two things and be like, okay, how did that work? What type of impact did that have? Did that have the type of impact that we were hoping for? How do we feel about it? Okay. Do we need to modify this at all? Oh, okay. Okay. This feels good. All right. What else could we add on that's going to continue to nudge things in the right direction?

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Every single night. We were so excited when Cozy Earth first came on as a sponsor. We of course wanted to try out their bedding and linens and make sure we liked it. And at this point, we are so obsessed with Cozy Earth that we have spent our own money for ourselves. We have bought Cozy Earth as gifts for other people. Like, there's no better endorsement of a product than you being willing to spend your own money on it. Right? We love Cozy Earth so much and we're really excited for you to check them out. And we have teamed up with Cozy Earth and they are offering 35% off when you use the code pillow talks@cozyearth.com their bedding collection offers a variety of luxury pillows, sheets, blankets and more. They have a best selling bamboo sheet set that is temperature regulating and incredibly soft. And all of their luxury bedding is backed by a lengthy warranty. Our personal favorite is the linen sheet set. We just love the texture of it, the softness of it. It drapes against your skin so softly.

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Oh yeah, give it a couple of washes and it just, it's life changing. They're so incredible. So we have those as our sheet set and also as a duvet cover too. So it just really up levels and elevates the entire bedding experience. We cannot recommend them highly enough. And again, Cozy Earth has provided an exclusive offer for Pillow Talks listeners today get up to 35% off site wide when you use the code pillow talks@cozyearth.com so for your initial conversation that you have, we would suggest just starting with focusing on some guidelines. So again, don't go in hot and heavy with all your complaints. Just start with like, hey, I know phones can be tricky. Obviously they're complex. I want us to make sure we're prioritizing each other and making space for each other. So, like, let's try a few of these things, see how it goes. So kind of start from a more neutral perspective. Then if you're having trouble sticking to the boundaries or if there are, like, more serious dynamics that you're wanting to talk about, like, have that at a later conversation. But just given how sensitive phones can be and how easy it is for all of us to get defensive, I think if you start off a little bit more gentle and just talking about it more neutrally and, you know, talking about the two of you both making changes, then that's going to lay more of a foundation for eventually you guys to come loop back around to, like, okay, hey, there's something that I want to talk to you about. You know, your specific behaviors that are upsetting me or hurting me. So start, like, ease your way into it. That's the simplified way of saying what I'm trying to say. Okay, so we turn to Instagram. We ask people, like, what boundaries or guidelines do you have for your phone usage? We have a ton of ideas that we have experimented with ourselves and implemented ourselves over the years. So we're going to go through the list. And again, the idea here, it is not that you need to do all of these starting tomorrow. Tomorrow. It's like, pick a couple that catch your attention that you feel excited by. Try them out and see how it goes. Okay, so a great one could be no phones at mealtimes and. Or no phones on date nights. So to set yourself up for success, it can be easiest if you just, like, leave your phone in another room, leave it in the car on date night, just, like, get it away from you so you don't even have the temptation. Because I think most people will realize, like, that instinct to grab our phones is so strong, we don't even know that we're doing it sometimes, and we're, like, wanting to grab for it. So if you just, like, set yourself up for success, put it away in a place where you can't grab it, that's going to make it so much easier.

And I think that it's a good starting point to just do this, to say, no, we're not, like, we are not going to have them at all. Leave them in the car, or, like, have them in the pocket, but turn them off or whatever. Like, raise that barrier to, like, okay, yeah, I'm going to pull it out. Oh, I got to wait two minutes for this thing to turn on. Because, you know, we did allude earlier on to, like, you know, the phone can be a great way to facilitate conversation, you know, between you and your partner or on a date or whatever. And I think a lot of people will kind of tend towards, like, okay, well, like, let's just only. Let's only pull out the phone if we are going to be using it to, like, oh, we need to look something up, up that's going to, like, spur this conversation or to look at some photos or whatever. And the reason that I would suggest starting with going just all the way to zero phones is because that. That pull to, like, just pulling it out is so strong that even though you have that intention, you're going to pull it out and be like, oh, well, I was going to look this up, but then, like, I got a notification about a text and I needed to respond to that and blah, blah, blah, and like, it's so easy to just fall back into it, and you're just setting yourself up for. For a bigger argument, which is like, hey, we said this. Like, why is it so hard for you? So just start with none of it. Give yourself a couple weeks with that. See how it feels. That's going to help you kind of break that. That cycle, rewire your brain a little bit. And then you can talk about modifying that a bit if it's like, hey, okay, if we both decide, yeah, let's pull out a phone to look up this, then we do that and we do it together or something like that versus, you know, it being like you're. You're trying to your own, you know. Oh, yeah, I'm texting my friend, but no, but next I'm looking up the. You know, what country has the biggest freshwater lake?

Or, wow, what country does.

Has.

Have the best freshwater lake?

The best. The. The biggest, Biggest. I have no idea. I mean, is it one of the. Is it one of the Great Lakes? So US or Canada? Are there bigger freshwater lakes than that? I don't know. I don't know. Oh, my God. Vanessa's looking it up right now. All right, we're gonna keep this rolling. Usually we would just cut this out of the podcast, but this is. This is kind of fun. So the problem, though, is that Vanessa's doing this on her laptop. She's not on her phone.

Yeah, you're right. Lake Superior.

Lake Superior, baby. USA and Canada.

Okay, let's move on. That took a real turn. Okay, the next boundary or guideline could be no ph first thing in the morning or right before bed. I think those two times can be particularly like great times for intimacy of any kind. You know, just like a little bit of moments of connection. And let's be real, like, how many of us reach for our phones first thing in the morning or you know, that our phones are the last thing that we're looking at at night before bed so that we don't do this one. But that could be a potentially great thing to experiment with. And one thing that you can do to set yourself up, success with this one is sleep with the phone in another room. I think that's so good for your sleep, for your mental health. Like, just overall, we should not be having our phones in our room.

Yeah, I do. I do believe that there has been a lot of research showing that people that do that with phone off and. Or totally in the other room get way better quality sleep and have a lot of other positive things. I'm not quoting any specific studies do I'm sure.

Try it.

We could. I. So what I was going to say is, and hey, maybe this is just. Maybe you're. You're going to hear me like, justifying my or our own behavior here, but justify, baby. My. My personal thought with that is that I. I mean, at least for me, I'll speak for myself. I think it is the same for you. I feel like I get really good quality sleep. I do not struggle to fall asleep at night and I don't struggle to stay asleep. Sleep at night.

We don't even know. Maybe it could be even better.

Yeah, I mean, I guess so. I just feel like by all objective measures, like, sleep is the. Like, if I had to categorize, like, the problems in my life, like, sleep is at the bottom.

I will say, though, like, you know, we. Yeah, you and I definitely grab our. Like, we turn to each other, we say hi. You know, we have like, a little moment of connection. That's like one of our guidelines is like. Like, we have to say good morning to each other first and, like, kiss and stuff like that. But then we, you know, let's be real. We reach for our phones within the first 60 seconds of waking up. And then at night, like, we've had. We've had plenty of conversations before about, like, I don't like to scroll on my phone at night. I will do it, like, while I'm brushing my teeth and stuff. But pretty much once I get into bed, like, my phone's down and I'm reading my book instead. But Xander likes to watch videos and like, we've had conversations about you being like, you're cackling. Over on your side of the bed. I'm like, dude, I'm trying to sleep. Like, your phone is so bright and you're cackling and, like, watching things loud.

So, yeah, I had to stop watching.

I'm on board with this one.

I had to stop watching reels before bed. That became a problem.

Yeah. All right. You want to try this?

Not really.

Will you try it with me for one week and see how it goes?

Yeah, let's try it. I'll be. I'll be asleep. Quick, out like a light.

Okay. We will report back this experiment on Instagram. If you are not following us on Instagram already, get on over there. We're at Vanessa and Xander.

But don't do it when you are in bed as you're falling asleep. Yes.

Don't get into a fight. Or first thing in the morning, Instagram. Okay, the next one is a bit of a compromise here. This could be put phones on airplane mode after a certain time of the day, like 8pm and we mean airplane.

Mode with WI FI off.

Yeah.

Because nowadays airplanes. Oh, my God, now you know. But, you know, hey, I'm. I just want to call it out because some people want to be like, okay, so I can't get any calls, but I can get WI Fi, but maybe I have WI fi calling on. So then I get my calls anyway.

Turn your phones off.

You can also specify, you know, certain types of family time that you want to be phone free. I think this is. This can be a really important one. One time, many years ago, I think Vanessa sat me down to have a little conversation. It went over really well. I can't remember exactly how you did it. My recollection is that you just described to me, you're like, I'm not sure if you are aware, but I just want to call out something that I have observed, which is like, when we are hanging out with my family by Miami and Vanessa's. When we were hanging out with, like, Vanessa's family, because we would, you know, like, you know, come down from San Francisco where we used to live, and, you know, stay with Vanessa's family for maybe a week over Christmas or whatever. Whatever. And she's just like, you will often be on your phone, like, while a bunch of us are all, like, talking and interacting. And I heard that, and I was like, wow, thank you for calling that out. Because I just wasn't really aware of what that looked like or it just helped me be more aware of. Oh, okay. Is this something that I am doing? Am I aware of it? What do I want to be doing during those times? Do I want to be interacting with family? Is it that I really am wanting alone time? In which case, maybe, you know, like, it might be better for me to excuse myself of, like, oh, like, I want to go to bed or I want to go into the bedroom or something like that. That just allowed me to think about, oh, how do I want to be showing up with Vanessa's family?

And I think that's. That's a phrase that you can steal and use with your partner. Like, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, because a lot of us have phone behaviors that we're not aware of. Like, our phones are so addicting that we are not even fully consc. Of how we are using them sometimes. So that's a great way to bring something up with your partner without triggering defensiveness in them. And another thing that you can do related to that is maybe have some sort of specific ritualized activity that you always do together without phones. So it's like, you know, no phone Tuesday dinners. Or maybe it's like we always play monopoly and, you know, there are no phones during that, or we always do, like, a family walk outside or something like that, you know, so it. It makes it feel like if you make something a ritual that makes it feel more special and meaningful Rather than just like, the rule of no phones allowed kind of thing. It's like, no, this is our special family ritual or couple ritual that we always do.

Yeah. I mean, and it also makes it something that once you have that ritual and that habit in place, that it doesn't have to be like, every single time you do it, one person, like, reminding the other other don't, you know, oh, hey, no phones here. Because then that sets up a dynamic where it's like one partner is like the phone enforcer, and the other person is, you know, like the. The bad little kid that just wants to be on their phone or. Or whatever it is. So that. That's a nice thing about those, you know, rituals or patterns is that it's like, hey, this is just something that we do. We don't need to remind each other about it. We don't need to. It doesn't need to feel like, oh, this person is just arbitrarily telling me, oh, you can't be on your phone now. No, you can't be on your phone then, or whatever.

Yeah. Another great guideline is to announce when and why you are using your phones. So if you just need some time to zone out and scroll. Like, that's fine. But it can be so helpful if you tell your partner ahead of time.

It can be helpful for you, yourself, even.

Yeah, like, I just need a few minutes to myself. I just need to zone out. Like, back in the time before phones, if we needed some alone time or we just needed to. To, like, clear our minds, we had to go somewhere or go do something, like, I'm gonna go on a walk around the block, or, you know, I'm gonna go take a shower or something like that. And so now it's like, phones give us a way to zone out without having to move. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but.

Or to, like, explain anything of, like, oh, I'm. I am leaving the living room where we have been having a conversation together to go do something else.

Yes, but. So, you know, but of course, if you're not announcing it or sharing it with your partner, what it can look like is like, hey, we were hanging out in the living room together, and then all of a sudden my partner just completely checked out. So it's like, we're. We've been leaving out that announcement, that notification, and we need to bring that back in. So it could be just sharing with your partner, like, I need a little bit of time to zone out and scroll. Or it could be Xander actually did this right before we started recording this podcast. Like, we were trying to get going, like, get this podcast recording. Xander was out on his phone and he said, hey, I'm checking. Checking us in for our flights because we are going on a little trip today. And so just him saying that, he's like, I'm checking us in. Just didn't want you to think that I was, you know, mindlessly over here scrolling, like, that was huge in helping me not get annoyed with him. Of like, dude, we're supposed to be recording the podcast now.

Yeah. And I think it's also, like, I. I alluded to this. Announcing it for yourself can also be really powerful. It's so easy when. When we don't acknowledge to ourselves, we don't say it out loud. We don't really think. Like, it's so easy to, you know, fall into that trap of like, oh, God, I just, like, ended up scrolling on Instagram for an hour. I had no intention of doing that. Versus being like, hey, I've had a really long day. I just got home, it's six o'. Clock. I am going to spend half an hour just sitting here scrolling on instagram I think the interesting thing is that when you say it out loud or even, like, just think it out loud in your head to yourself, the amount of time, it can sound kind of high. If you're like, I'm gonna spend the next 30 minutes, or I'm gonna spend the next 60 minutes just sitting here in my kitchen scrolling Instagram, you might be like, God, that sounds like a lot of time. Why? Why would you want to do that when, if you're being honest with yourself, if you weren't to announce that to yourself, you could very easily do that for 30 to 60 minutes and not think any it. So I think just the. The verbalizing it, whether it's explicit or kind of inside your own head, can kind of check yourself of like, oh.

Okay, that's a great point.

Do I want to do this? Like, you're kind of going in eyes wide open, and often just stating your intention aloud or your goal helps you actually achieve it, because then you can be like, oh, okay, all right. You know, I usually. I just sit here for 30 minutes. That feels like a lot. Hey, I'm going to give myself 15 minutes to look at Instagram on my phone. You know what? Since I'm saying it aloud, why not just set a timer? Hey, phone, tell me when 15 minutes is up. And then that can be just a very easy way to keep yourself in check and kind of be in integrity with yourself.

Well, it also, I mean, as soon as you said that, you're like, I'm gonna spend 30 minutes on Instagram. And I was like, oh, God, 30 minutes on Instagram is a long time. And I was like, I do that all the time. And because I'm not being thoughtful about it and, like, stating that intention to myself. So, like, it's okay if I need to zone out and just spend 30 minutes, like, fucking around on Instagram. But I think, yeah, that step of announcing it to yourself, that really makes you pause and think about it.

Yeah.

I mean, do I actually need to.

Do this in all aspects of your life, just being honest with yourself, like, what is it that. Like, what is it that I'm wanting to do? I think a lot of us end up doing things that we don't really want to do or we're not really happy with because we just go out, go out for the night, go out for whatever, ever, without any real goal or intention, and like, oh, let's just see what happens.

Yeah.

And that's basically what you're doing with your phone. Like, I mean, honestly, I don't think most people are not like, okay, it's Friday night. I want to go out, stay up all night, drink too much. I want to feel like shit tomorrow. Like, I. Like, no one is saying that. Barely anyone is saying that out loud. Maybe every now and then someone goes, well, I'm feeling. I'm feeling whatever. I want to do this. But, like, yeah, I mean, no one is doing that. So I think that just trying to be honest with ourselves about what is it that I want to do right now, in the next 15 minutes, what do I want to do today, what do I want to do tonight that can get us so much further in life, in the world, in our relationships, and wherever.

Okay, so this next one is something that's been really helpful in our own relationship. We ask for each other's attention before we start talking to them. And we are not perfect at this. We definitely mess it up all the time. But it makes such a big difference when we do it. Because I think one of the biggest annoyances that comes up in relationships is you're talking to your partner and they're down on their phone not paying attention to you, not listening to you. But so many of those times you started talking to them when they were already looking at their phone. So it's just like, you're not setting them up for success. Success, or yourself or yourself up for success. So it's very simple. If you, like, are wanting to say something to your partner and you see that they're already on their phone, acknowledge that and say, hey, can I get your attention for a second? And don't continue talking until your partner looks up, makes eye contact with you, and confirms, yes, you have my attention.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's easy to go into, you know, go into an interaction like that. You see your partner on their phone and it's easy to just assume, like, oh, they're just scrolling, or like, they're doing something that is unimportant relative to what I have to say or what I want to do with them. And so there you can have this kind of just unspoken expectation of, oh, well, I'm going to say something, and they need to listen to me because it's obviously more important than whatever they're doing. But you don't actually know what they're doing. You don't know what they're thinking. They might be in the middle of something that actually is important or is. Is for you or something like that. And I think it's just so valuable to be able to say, hey, I See that you are doing something. I would love to get your attention, you know, whether that's now or in a couple of minutes or something like that. And give, you know, give your partner the opportunity to be like, oh, I'm just scrolling Instagram. This isn't very important. I'm going to put my phone away right now. Or like. Or like, oh, I'm, like, booking the flight for our, you know, our trip this summer. Summer. And I'm in the middle of it. I'm putting all the, you know, passport information in, and it's like, I can't be distracted right now. So in 10 minutes, I'll be done. And I would love to chat with you.

Another great boundary that I think every couple should implement is no phones during serious conversations. So there's something serious you need to talk about about your relationship, your family, whatever it is. Like, phones should just go away because you're. It's not going to be good if one of you pulls your phone out in the middle of a tough conversation. Yeah, this next one. Somebody submitted this on Instagram. This could have helped Xander and I a lot. Must use headphones if you're watching videos. Oh, it's so easy to get annoyed at your partner, like, watching something. The volume's too loud. You can't quite hear it. They're cackling away, laughing, like, just, yeah, headphones on if you want to watch videos.

I think, you know, I think the really interesting thing about this, I think most people's pushback would be, and this is definitely my own pushback, is I'm like, oh, well, I don't want to get the headphones because that would be admitting to myself that, oh, I am like, I am actually trying to watch a video right now. When in reality, I'm really just trying to squeeze this in super quick between two things. I'm trying to convince myself that, like, I am watching something not that seriously or that, like, I'm multitasking effectively and that actually grabbing the headphones would be an admission to myself that, oh, yeah, no, like, getting the headphones makes it feel serious. Like, oh, yeah, no, I'm, like, gonna sit down and watch this movie. And that's not actually what I'm trying to do. So this gets back to the kind of being honest with yourself where it's like, yeah, like, okay, yeah, if you want to watch that. If you want to watch that video, then put some. Put some damn headphones on and actually, like, get real with yourself. That, yeah, I'm gonna watch this thing right Right now.

Okay. Here's another hack that Xander and I have done for a while, and it has been really helpful for us is we try to make the effort of when the other person walks into the room of looking up and making eye contact with them. So for us, this is especially powerful because we work together and we're in a relationship. Like, we're with each other all day long. And it's very easy just to, like, get caught up in.

In.

In phones and in laptops and all the things. But this one we did. I really made an effort to do it in bed at the end of the night because I usually get into bed sooner. Xander will come in, like a couple minutes later. So just, like, putting your phone down for a second, looking up and making eye contact with your partner, I think that.

So meaningful.

Yeah. It really sends them a message that, like, you're important and I pay attention to your.

You.

I notice your presence. So this is not something that you need to be militant about. And, like, every single time you see your partner, you need to put your phone down. But, like, just making an effort to do it once a day, every other day, like, I think that's so valuable. It's such a small thing that you can do to have such a big impact on your partner.

Because I think that this is one of those things that. That, you know, kind of, if unchecked, can really quickly get you into that roommate's type of territory. Because it's like, yeah, if you. Assuming that you have lived with a roommate before, you know, it is like, yeah, you're just sharing space with someone. And it's easy to fall into this pattern of like, okay, well, like, this is. This is like my house. I happen to share it with someone, but, like, it's my house. And so, like, I should be able to hang out in my own living room without really needing to pay attention to this other person walking around. And that ends up being what we do. If it's like, oh, I'm on my phone scrolling Instagram or TikTok or whatever, and my partner comes in and I don't even look up. Like, that's the energy that you end up putting off over time when there's not that real personal connection. Hey, what's up? Yeah.

All right. And our final suggestion is to make requests for phone free time. So here's how we've done this. One of the most dangerous times for our relationship. Relationship is when we are trying to get out the door. Like, there's just. There are so many things that can go wrong. It's very easy for us to turn into, like, squabbling and, you know, bickering with each other. So, for example, if we are trying to get out the door or trying to be somewhere on time, like, I will ask Xander, like, we are in a rush to get out the door, so can we both just put our phones down and focus on getting out of the. The house? Another request that I've made of him at times has been, can you go use the bathroom without using your phone? Because I know it'll go way faster. And we will get back to that yet again. But just like, sometimes it will not always just making requests if there's. Especially if you're like, in a rush or you're trying to get something done in time, like, it's okay to ask your partner to put their phone down for a little bit. Of course, the key here is all in the delivery. Like, you can't be coming across is like, oh, just put your phone down. You know, it has to be like a neutral sounding request. But that can be very helpful.

All right, well, what say you. We get into some listener questions.

We haven't done listener questions in a while.

I was about to say that same thing and I was like, maybe I don't want to throw us under the bus.

We've had, yeah. A lot of topics that, like, haven't. Haven't had the space for listener questions or.

Yeah. Or we've just gone long with all the content. So. Nice. Nice to get back to the listener questions. All right, how to address when my partner's in denial about how often they're on their phone.

So I. I would start with talking about your own phone usage too, like, taking responsibility for your side of the street. If all you're doing is focusing on your partner and their habits, like, of course they're going to be defensive and in denial about it. I do also like that phrase, thank you for bringing that up earlier that I used with you of like, I'm not sure you're aware of this, so you could bring it up in that kind of context. But in general, I would say, like, how often your partner is on their phone is not really the most important thing. Like, you guys can go back and forth all day long arguing, like, is it five hours or is it three hours? Do I check my phone every six minutes or do I check my phone every eight minutes? But, like, ultimately that's not what matters. It's just not important. And even if your partner were to magically agree, agree to like, okay, fine, I will only be on my phone for three hours a day. Like, it's really more about the habits and the specific moments and instances rather than how often overall, they're on their phone. So I would focus on, like, what are the specific moments that feel the most hurtful or irritating to you and use the guidelines and the boundaries that we went over to address those specific moments.

Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I guess. I mean, if you're. If both of you are super, like, quantitatively minded, you could get into the whole screen time app and looking at numbers. But like, you were saying, like, it's. I mean, that was my first thought, was like, oh, if you're totally in denial, then it's like, you know, it can be confronting to actually see the numbers. But. But yeah, I think that, that. That more likely is going to kind of just lead to more arguments or justifications. I. I would say maybe the best starting point would be, yeah, those specific requests for specific moments that you want the phone free time and just. Just start there. Because I think that, yeah, if you're, like, in denial about how often you're on your phone, that's like, it sounds like, you know, you've probably had some conversations about it, and it's probably like, oh, well, like this. Like, these. Here are the 10 things that are wrong. Here are the 10 things that we need to do. Different person's like, no, I don't do any of those. Okay, cool, that's fine. But, like, I don't have to put any effort into this because I'm not doing any of those things. It's, like, harder to implement a bunch of things or to, like, track your own pro. Evaluate yourself on, like, 10 different things. But if you can just do one thing, hey, I would like to spend the next hour, you know, of us hanging out with no phones. Yeah, like, that is clear. It's simple. Yeah. It's easy to track because there's nothing to try. It's a binary. Like, did we do it or did we not do it?

Yeah. I mean, just think about it this way. Like, if your partner were to ask you, I want you to spend less time on your phone versus, hey, on the nights that we're having dinner together, could we put our phones in the other room and just enjoy having dinner with each other? Like, how do you follow through on that first request? Like, you're not gonna stopwatch yourself.

Yeah.

And, like, it's just. It's impossible to be, like, be on your phone less and actually make any Meaningful progress on that versus, like, getting into the specifics.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that really applies to almost any relationship thing. Like, like, oh, we need to have more sex, or, like, we need to argue less or whatever. Like those, those type of vague requests or judgments just don't ever end up being helpful. Okay, how do I get my partner who is on the phone all day, speaking of making general judgments of someone, to text me back more quickly? Okay, so this person clearly knows how to use their phone and enjoys using their phone because they're doing it a lot, but they are not getting back to the person quickly.

This is a tricky one because I think people just have different values around texting each other back for things. Like, there are a lot of people who are just like, yeah, I don't want to be texting my partner all day. Or, you know, well, then if I text you back immediately, then you're going to text me back immediately. And then I'm going to have to text you back again immediately. Like, I don't want to be texting all day.

Oh my God. This just, this just reminded me my freshman year of college, some guy that like, I wasn't even very close friends with, but like, he like, called me out for having really poor AIM habits.

Oh boy, I am.

Oh yeah. Throwing it back because it was like, it was like, he was like, oh, like, I like, I love you, dude, but like, you like, have really bad, like, what was like, like AIM manners. I was like, what are you talking about? And because it would be, be like, you know, my assumption with, you know, messaging. So I think this applies to whether it's aim old school or like text message is I'd be like, hey, like, if I'm chatting with someone, like, we're chatting but the expectation is not, like, we're not on the phone talking to each other, like things, you know, it's like we're chatting because we happen to be sitting at the computer. But like, life happens and if I get up or whatever, I'm not like, oh, hold on, I'm not going to go to the bathroom because I'm going to tell this person, oh, BRB, be or like, gotta go for 10 minutes.

Yeah.

And like, you know, and like this guy, like, had a different set of, I don't know, like, ideas around what you were supposed to do or like, you know, what was acceptable or common courtesy on chat. And it was just interesting to me because I was like, well, I, I could understand where he was coming from if he, if he felt like, oh well, I always tell someone like BRB in 10 minutes or I'm gonna go do this versus me being like, oh well, like chat is nice, but like real life takes precedence. And like sometimes I'm there, sometimes I'm not. Like I'm not always going to remember to put the away message up. I feel like it could be the same thing for this person. Like, oh, well, I'm at work. And when I'm at work, like, I am more paying attention to getting through the work stuff than the personal stuff.

Yeah. I also think the person asking this question, it sounds like they're just annoyed by their partner's habits. They're like on the phone all day. So I was would focus more on implementing some of these guidelines and boundaries that we've shared with you. And then I think the overall annoyance will decrease. And then what I would say is if you have a time sensitive text, share that with your partner. Like, hey, I wanted to make a reservation for us for Friday at 7. I have 10 minutes to confirm this reservation. Can you get back to me asap? You know, like, tell your partner when you need a quick response from them.

Or perhaps try calling them if you need a, if you need a specific or, you know, talk about or. Because I know different people, different relationships with actually picking up the phone and calling someone. But I, you know, I think, you know, coming from someone who has lived through like analog phones all the way to smartphones, in my mind there's always sort of been this like order of precedence kind of of like what you do, like what, what, you know, it's like, hey, if I need to get something from someone right away, I could text them and hope that they respond or I could call them. Somehow in my mind calling feels like, you know, I'm more likely to get an immediate response. Different people are gonna have different feelings about that. But you could talk about this and say, hey, you know, like, you know, I message you throughout the day and sometimes those messages are more just like personal chit chat. And it's like I don't need a response immediately. So I could understand how sometimes it might be hard to gauge, like, oh, does this require something immediate or is this just chit chat? So if I have something really important, like would you be okay with me calling you? And you know, we save the phone calls for, you know, time sensitive things so that, you know, so it's crystal clear, ah, I have a missed call, that that's something important versus, oh, I have ten unread text messages. Like Do I want to open them and read them all? You know, I don't know.

Um, side note, did you ever have a rotary phone?

I don't think. I don't know. I must have at my house. I think as far as. Back as I can remember, like, we. I think we always had, like, a main. You know, like. Like our home phone that was connected to the answering machine was digital, as far as I can remember. But no, we, for sure in the house, you know, had other. Yeah, had other rotary phones.

Put your finger in the little circle and bring it all the way around and let it go all the way back.

Very.

Oh, if you had a lot of nines in the phone number or. 0, 0. Oh, God.

Yeah. Very quickly. I think we didn't have a rotary phone in the house, but, yes, I do. I do remember that.

Okay, I have a listener question for you. Why is my male partner always using his phone in the bathroom? And why does it take forever? Xander, solve the mystery for us.

Okay. Well, I think there's a couple things going on here. I think the first thing is that men. In my experience, I don't know, talking to my friends, my. Myself, seems like men just take longer going poop. That is not backed up with any real data.

But it sounds like the men are backed up.

Either that. Either that or women somehow are very quick.

I am so efficient.

Or, you know, just like, have, I don't know, poop. Poop. A phobia and really don't want to be on the toilet for very long.

I mean, it's not a pleasant place to be.

I don't know. It can be, um. So here. Fundamental difference of opinion and perspective on this. But so. So there's that. There's. There's the fact that men seem to take longer. Then on top of that, I think that there is a. This isn't like, a good thing necessarily, but I think that men can use the bathroom as an excuse or a reason to kind of tune out from everything else that's going on. It's like a me time.

Oh, me time.

I have to poop. Great. I'm gonna take 10 or 15 minutes of me time, and maybe that's gonna turn into more because I'm not paying attention because I'm on my phone. And, you know, I think that, you know, when I was younger, it was books on the toilet, and now it is phones. All right, how about this? Vanessa, my partner and I have made efforts in the past to have phone free time, but we often have these awkward moments where it feels like we just have nothing to say to me, each other. So we find ourselves reaching back for our phones to break the awkwardness.

This was a very common question that came up. And hey, we've been there ourselves too.

100%.

Totally get it. And that is part of the reason why we created our Connection challenge. So this is a challenge for couples who are looking to rediscover the spark, that new relationship energy. And how it works is that we give this you 30 days worth of prompts. So every day you have two different prompts. That's actually 60 total. There's one that's more communication based and then there's one that's more activity based. And the whole idea here is to get you having deeper conversations, doing things that make you feel more connected and building intimacy so you don't have those awkward moments of like, what are we supposed to be talking about? I don't know how to have a conversation anymore. So it's a really incredible challenge. It's so fun. It's very practical. Like, the challenges themselves can take anywhere from five to 15 minutes. So it can really be squeezed into even the busiest day. You can carve out 5, 10, 15 minutes of your Instagram scrolling a day to make time for this. But it's a really incredible challenge that will help the two of you feel more connected than ever before. So we will put a link to check that out out in the show notes for this episode. But that's our mega popular connection challenge.

And on that note, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we tackle our audience's biggest assumptions about us.

It's going to be an interesting episode.

I can't wait.

Okay, smash that record button.

Smashing record on episode 116. 116.

116. 116.

Oh, that was sharp. Wow.

Don't put that in the episode.

Or do. I don't know.

Or do maybe. That's awful.