Episode 122: “Don’t Touch Me Like That”: Confronting Unwanted Touch In Your Relationship

We are not, in this episode going to teach you how to like something you don't. What we are going to teach you is that you deserve to respect your own boundaries. Like you deserve to listen to your body. If your body is saying like, I don't like being touched in this way, I don't want this. And you deserve a partner who respects your body and your boundaries as well. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Cozy Earth for supporting Pillow Talks. Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for our Pillow Talks listeners today. Get up to 35% off site wide when you use code pillow talks@cozyearth.com thanks to Babbel for supporting pillow talks. Babbel's 10 minute lessons make it the perfect way to really learn a new language on the go. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners to get you started. Right now, get 55% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners@babbel.com pillow today we are tackling a topic that I am so excited to talk about, which is unwanted touch in relationships. Not excited in a good way.

Yeah. I was like, huh, where are we going?

Excited may have been a weird word to pick, but I'm hyped up to talk about this because I think this is a very important topic that I have never heard anybody talk about in relationships. So I think this is a really needed episode that a lot of people are going to relate to.

Might you say you're uncomfortably excited to talk about this?

I'm uncomfortably excited to talk about this. So what we're talking about here, unwanted touch, your partner touching you in a way in a certain place or at a time that you don't like. So of course there has been much more conversation about like abuse, you know, like physical abuse type of stuff. Like where it's very obviously completely crossing a boundary, completely unacceptable. But there definitely is a lot of gray area around touch where it's like, like I just don't really love being touched that way. All the way up to like. Yeah, I'VE told my partner not to touch me like that, but they don't seem to understand that I don't like it.

Or it could be like, you know, I used to enjoy this certain type of touch, and then over time, I, you know, I enjoyed it less and less, and I'm realizing now that I actually don't like it.

Yeah, there are just so many nuances that can come up around touch. So we wanted to tackle all these complexities and talk about what to do if we're experiencing unwanted touch in our relationship. Always. We polled our Instagram community and we found that 78% of people have experienced unwanted touch in their relationship.

Yeah, that's like 8 out of 10 people, and that includes Vanessa and me. We have both been. We have both been guilty of this.

So we want to make one thing perfectly clear right up top at the beginning of this episode, our perspective is always that it is your body and you and. And only you get to decide how and when and where it gets touched. So I know I just said, you know, there's a lot of gray area and we're talking about the nuances here, but I just want to make sure we're being perfectly clear in saying, like, you are the only person who gets to pick your boundaries for your body, and those boundaries deserve to be respected by everybody in your life. So make sure we're making that super clear then. In this episode, we are going to walk you through three different steps, scenarios around unwanted touch, and give you advice for what you should do in each scenario.

And before we get to those three scenarios, I'm going to walk you through our review of the week. Fills my cup every time. I'm really not one to do reviews, but I truly love this podcast. It's the perfect combination of fun conversation and incredible advice that you need in a podcast. I found this when I was going through a tough spot post baby. And the amount of concrete, amazing advice it gives about relationships is everything I needed. It feels like good friends talking to you through all your relationship woes. With an unending stream of relatable topics, Vanessa and Xander are so entertaining to listen to that you could listen to them talk about the weather and still have a good time. Oh, what is this?

Should we do an episode about the weather?

Yes, the weather.

Oh, that emoji.

Yeah, this isn't. This is a one I've never seen before.

Yes, you've seen this before.

Really?

Yes.

Well, this is funny because this is sort of like the whole wink fiasco that we have had where you know, I was using a winky face for the whole previous part of my life that Vanessa now thinks is a flirty emoji.

The winky face is definitely a flirty emoji. It's not just what I think.

Okay, well, anyway, none of. None of my male friends thought that. None of my male friends thought that. So who knows? The jury is still out.

What do you think this one is?

This is kind of like a wink. It's like the tongue out. Like so. So like the non flirty wink that you told me is non flirty. The one where like the eye, like one eye is closed and the tongue is kind of out, which I think is an over exaggerated wink, but whatever, that's an aside. This one is giving me those winky vibes. But it's like a little more fun. I like this. This one's a little spicy winky, but more fun. It's like a zingy wink.

It's got googly eyes with the tongue.

Googly eyes with the tongue. Okay, so how would I. What would I type in to find that? Googly eyes?

Yeah.

Really?

Eyes?

Sure.

I don't know.

Interesting. I like it. Well, this person has googly eyes. For our Theoretical weather podcast, which maybe we'll record someday. And then they finish off saying 10 out of 10 would recommend to any and all friends. Thank you.

Thank you. That's such a delightful review. We really appreciate you taking the time to leave reviews. We don't just do this for fun. It actually helps podcast grow so much. It helps Spotify and Apple Podcasts choose to feature it. So it really does have so many benefits. And we do a giveaway every week to say thank you for taking the time to leave a review. So here's how it works. Go over to the Pillow talks page on Apple Podcasts. Scroll to the bottom, you'll see the section to leave a review. And once you leave a review, you are entered into our giveaway every week. Going forward, if you hear your review read on the podcast, you can email us at infoemtherapy.com, let us know the username you left review with, and you will get to pick a master class to get. Absolutely for free. It's just our way of saying thank you for taking the time to support the podcast. And if you've never heard us talk about the emoji thing before, that was an OG part of the review game. We told people to try to stump Xander with emojis because he's really bad at understanding what they are.

And I finally Got stumped.

You did. You got stumped. So this. This review really did so much for us.

Good work. Good work.

All right, so let's get into the episode. So first, we want to break down that 78% that we shared with you a minute ago. So, actually, when we posed the question to our Instagram audience, we gave them four different categories. Yes, occasionally I experience unwanted touch. That was 49%.

Wow. So half of people.

Yeah. Next up was. Yes, often that was 15% in the past, but not now was 14%. And then never was only 22%. Also, people of all genders experience unwanted touch, so I think that there is this stereotype that only women are the ones who receive it. And there's kind of this, like, men.

Will take whatever touch they can get.

Yeah. Like, there was one person who responded to the questions, like, he should want any touch that I give him.

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, that's just not true. Like, men are also allowed to have boundaries around touch. I'm not sure why it would be that men can't have boundaries while women can have boundaries around touch. Like, we all have preferences around things that we like and things that we don't like, and we all get to choose those things. It is not, you know, gender specific when it comes to this type of thing.

And people of all genders, too.

Not men and women, all in any gender.

We also asked the specific kinds of unwanted touch that show up in relationships, and here were the most common responses. No surprise here. The boob honk was number one.

Yeah, that was always number one.

And there were other variations of it, too. The boob grays, the boob hold, nipple pinches, tweaks, rubs, smacks, boobs.

The list goes on.

Ah, do not like that. Yeah, but that was by far and away the number one type of unwanted touch.

Moving on from the boobs, of course. Then we have the butt. Butt slapping, Especially a hard ass smack or even a butt pinch.

There were also a lot of people who said grabby or gropey touch. Like, it just felt like there was no intention behind the touch. Like, someone's just kind of, like, grabbing at you. And, like, a crotch grab was listed a lot by people of all genders.

Oh, like, yeah, grab. Grabbing your junk. Yeah, I. I always hate that word, like, junk. But in this case, I feel like it kind of makes some it. Then it's like, yeah, it just feels like you're just, like, grabbing at some junk. Not, like, grabbing at something, like, sensual or sexually or, you know, in. In a nice way. It's just like, ooh, like you're just grabbing at something. I don't know. Yeah, that's not for me.

Yeah. Another common response was when touch is more about them than you. So, like, your partner is touching your body for their pleasure, not for your pleasure. So it feels like a selfish kind of touch.

Then we've got tickling also. Touch that's too fast or too hard or. This is a good one. I think you can relate to this. I know you can relate to this touch with cold hands.

We also had an inner thigh swipe being touched when overstimulated. And then another very common response was humping every time I bend over. Like your partner coming up behind you and humping your butt.

Yeah. Along with the inner thigh swipe, I think you could probably add the butt crack swipe. The credit card swipe.

How did that not get on this list?

I don't know. That should.

People love the credit card.

That. That should be on this list. I. Because you know what? I think, like, you used to do the credit card swipe a lot. And I'm just gonna be honest here. I don't. I don't like it.

And so I stopped doing it. We will talk more about our experiences with unwanted.

I mean, it's funny because it's funny to think about. It's. It's just a funny thing to do, I think. And it's like, I enjoy the humor of it, but, like, not at my own expense.

Well, yeah. I mean, this is exactly what we were talking about with the nuances to it. I don't want to totally speak for you here, but I think your experience wasn't ever that, like, you absolutely hated it or it really upset you. Like, there was a part of you that's like, this is funny, and you did it back to me plenty of times. But eventually, like, we got to a certain point where I remember you telling me, like, actually, couldn't you, like, not do that? And so at that point, I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. I thought this was, like, this funny thing that we do. And, like, I totally don't have to do it. Like, there's obviously, there's not much that I'm. You know, there's not a lot of intimacy in a credit card swipe of your butt crack.

No, there's none. There's absolutely none. But I mean, it's funny because it's like. Yeah, it's like, I enjoyed the humor aspect of it. And there was. You know, there was the part of me it was early on in our relationship where it's like, oh, like, she, you know, she must really be into me that she wants to credit card swipe my ass with her hand. And so, like, there's part of it. There's sort of like a validation part of it that almost felt good, but then, like, also I felt a little icky about it. And then it's like, yeah, I don't have any. Like, I'm not getting any enjoyment out of, like, doing that to you. So, like, why, like, why are we doing this to me? And so, yeah, I mean, hopefully some of you can relate with that. I think that's a lot of what goes on in our minds. It's like, oh, like, wow, like, this person really must be into my me or my body or both. Like, because they want to be touching me in that way. But then it's like, it's just not quite right.

Well, that's actually our first scenario, which we will get to in a second. But I think a little bit of what you're starting to speak to is a dynamic that we wanted to address before we even get into the scenarios. Like, a very common theme that we saw in the responses to the questions that we put on Instagram was people feeling bad for not liking the touch. So there was a lot of stuff like, well, what can I do to enjoy it? So, again, there are a lot of nuances here. Like, some of it may be more innocent of, like, my partner, like, gets a lot of delight in doing this. It's like this funny, you know, inside joke that we've developed. But, like, now I don't like it, but, like, I want to because it feels like we're supposed to. So, like, that's kind of on one end of it, but on the other end of it, there are a lot of people who are being touched in ways that really do not feel good for them, but they're feeling this pressure of, like, well, I'm supposed to like it. Maybe it's like, I'm a dude and I'm supposed to like, whatever touch I get or my partner really enjoys touching me this way, so I'm supposed to like it. So again, we wanted to be really careful in saying, like, you should not endure unwanted touch. At best, it's still unwanted touch. It's a way that your body's being touched that you don't like. But at worst, like, it can feel awful, it can feel unsafe, it can re traumatize you. If you've experienced any sort of trauma before, it can ruin Your sex drive if you're, like, constantly being touched in ways that you really dislike. And it can even create resentment in a relationship. Like, there's so many negative things that can come out of consistent, unwanted touch. So we are not, in this episode, gonna teach you how to like something you don't. What we are gonna teach you is that you deserve to respect your own boundaries. Like, you deserve to listen to your body. If your body is saying, like, I don't like being touched in this way. I don't want this. And you deserve a partner who respects your body and your boundaries as well. Okay, so let's get into scenario one, which we were talking about a little bit with the old credit card swipe. So it's, you don't like the touch, but you haven't talked about it with your partner yet.

Yeah. So when we surveyed our Instagram audience, 20% of people said that this is them, that they are being touched in a way that they don't like right now, but they haven't told their partner about it yet.

Okay, so some possible reasons why. Maybe you haven't told your partner yet. Maybe it hasn't seemed like that big of a deal yet. Maybe you don't know how bring it up with your partner. Maybe you're worried about hurting their feelings.

Maybe it feels like, oh, well, they've only done it a couple of times, and, like, maybe they're just gonna stop doing it since I didn't, like, say anything one way or the other about it. Or like, they're not doing it enough yet to really warrant a conversation or something like that.

Or maybe you even feel like you are not really, like, entitled to have your own boundaries. It's like, oh, well, that's my partner. We're in a relationship. Like.

Like, we're married. We're. Whatever it is.

Yeah. So we've already said this a couple of times. We are going to continue to say this, but our perspective is definitely that everybody gets to decide how they want their own body to be touched. And I think a really important thing to point out here is that everybody likes different kinds of touch, and that's okay. So, like, just because your partner likes touching you in a certain way, that doesn't mean that you should enjoy being touched that way or you should feel bad if you don't enjoy being touched that way. Way. Like, we all just have unique preferences. Like, I think, you know, we always go to the food comparisons. Right? Like, if Xander loves sushi and I don't love sushi, like, I shouldn't be over here trying to force myself to like sushi just because he likes it. It's like, no, I'm. I'm not into sushi. I'm not gonna eat it. I'm fine with that. I actually love sushi, but that was just the first Chinese food. Chinese food. There you go.

I love Chinese food. Vanessa doesn't.

I'm not a fan.

Not a fan.

So, yeah, I'm not gonna, like, force myself to. But. So, like, why can't we treat our bodies in the same sort of way with touch? Like, I just don't want to be touched in that way, and that's okay. So let's talk about how to talk to your partner about this. The first thing that we would recommend here is giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. Like, the credit card swipe was the perfect example. When Xander told me that initially, like, I had no idea, I thought it was funny, he did it back to me. We laughed whenever it happen. Like, I genuinely had no clue that he didn't like it. So I think sometimes when we haven't had a conversation with our partner, we can get a little bit in our heads about it and sort of build it up to be like, oh, my God, my partner's gonna be so hurt, and they're gonna be really upset, and they're not gonna want to. And, like, maybe you start to spiral out into anxiety a little bit. But we really want to encourage you to, like, reel it back in and just give your partner the benefit of the doubt. Like, in most of these circumstances in this scenario, like, I think it's gonna be exactly what my response was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize it. Like, I won't do that again. So when you first approach your partner to have that conversation, like, ease into it and really give them that benefit of the doubt.

Yeah. So you could just gently say something like, hey, when you touch me, like, X, Y, and Z, when you put your hand between my butt crack and swipe it like a credit card, it doesn't actually feel good. Or. I think this is probably gonna surprise you, but I don't actually love it when you touch me. Like, fill in the blank.

We also encourage you to be specific. So is it, like, there's one particular part of your body that you don't like being touched? Is it the energy that your partner touches you with? Are there certain contexts where you are open to touch and certain where you're not open to touch? So, like, whatever details your partner Needs to know, like, share those with them.

Yeah, I think that this can be so important to be as specific as possible because you don't want your partner, like, walking away with the idea that, like, all of a sudden a certain body part or a certain, like, type of touch is completely off limits. Unless what you are trying to say is that a certain thing is completely off limits. And that's another story. So, for example, you could say something like, hey, you can grab my butt when we're having sex, but I don't like my butt being grabbed any other time, or I don't like my butt being grabbed as a surprise, or, you know, like, when I'm washing the dishes. So making sure it's very clear, like, the context in which you don't want something to be touched or, like, context in which it is totally within limits to be touching that part of you.

And that's something that you might need to spend a little bit of time understanding on your own, like, trying to figure out, yeah, what are my boundaries? What are my, you know, my guidelines here? You can also extend. Explain anything in particular that that type of touch stirs up. So you don't need to have any sort of reason for having a boundary around your body. Like, it's enough to say, I don't want my butt touched, period, Plain and simple. End of sentence. But if there is a particular reason or, like, some history there that you think would be helpful for your partner to know, like, definitely share that with them. So, for example, maybe you tell your partner, like, it actually reminds me of my brother teasing me when we were growing up. Or that kind of touch makes me feel objectified instead of cherished.

You can also make it super clear to your partner that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt. So you could say something like, I'm sure you had no clue. It makes me feel this way, and I'm sorry I didn't bring it up before. And you can even, like, go into a little bit more detail there and, like, you know, you can take responsibility for yourself if you know that you took a long time to tell them or you got in your own head about it. I think that can be valuable. Like, you know, hey, like, you know, looking back, this feels a little silly, but I was, you know, going through my own struggle of think, you know, not being sure, like, how to tell you or that maybe I didn't, like, deserve to ask for this, but I've just come to realize that, like, this isn't something that I'm enjoying and I, you know, I know that you're not doing it intentionally to hurt me, so I just wanted to, you know, to make this request.

Yeah. My hope is that, like, 90% of the examples within this scenario are just simple miscommunications. Like, like, your partner doesn't want to touch you in ways that you don't like. It's like they just don't understand that that's a way that you don't like. So I think that going into these conversations, just keeping it as simple, sweet, to the point as possible is going to be the key for the majority of these kinds of situations. But, yeah, if you do wind up having, like, a deeper conversation about it, I think being able to share with them, you know. Yeah. What came up for you around struggling to share that with them or, you know, anything like that can just be really valuable. Another option is to try giving them an alternate kind of touch that you like instead. So, for example, maybe you tell your partner, like, I don't love having my boobs grabbed, but I do like having them caressed very gently. Or, I don't like being touched on my face, but I do love being touched on my neck. And our final tip here is just to use eye language. So, like, talk about, you know, obviously, this is your own body. Say, like, I like to be touched here. I don't love to be touched here. Rather than, like, you touch me, you know, I don't like when you do that. Like, of course it's gonna put your partner a little bit more on the defensive if they're hearing, like, you always do this, or you always grab me, or you, you know, that kind of thing.

It's like, you touched me there, and that felt bad.

Yeah. And even if it's not like a, you know, your partner didn't realize it, like, it can still stir up a lot of shame for them. Like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Like, I had no idea. So just saying, you know, using eye language, talking about your own body, I think can just help make these conversations go so much smoother and easier. And I wanted to point out one other little nuance within this scenario here. So let's say you're actually on the other side of this. You're the partner who's being told, I actually don't love being touched in this way. So I just want to say, having been in these exact shoes, like, it's okay for you to feel a little bit bummed if your partner doesn't want to be touched in a way that you enjoy so, like, you know, I have never touched Xander with anything other than love and respect and care. Right? Like, that's so important to me. And he has shared some boundaries with me around the ways that he likes to be touched. And there have been times where I have felt bummed about it, like, oh, man, that sucks. So the credit card example is not a good example here. But a better example is, like, I love really soft, soft, tickly touch. Like, I love it when Xander just, like, glides his fingertips over my skin and it gives me that kind of. It's like half tickly, but half feels really good.

Tickly and tingly.

Yeah, tingly. Xander, on the other hand, does not like being touched this way. It just. It feels ticklish for you. Like, it doesn't. It's not like a good ticklish. It's like a.

You know, I don't get the tingle like you do. I just get the tickle.

Yeah. And so. So when I did it in the past, you. You actually didn't tell me that you didn't like it or, like, wanted me to stop doing it, but you would do this little, like, blah kind of thing. And it just made me feel so bad. Like, here I'm touching you in this way that, like, I love being touched. And I think that you're gonna love being touched. And you're, like, flinching and making this, like, sound like that that made me sad. And eventually we did have to have like, a bigger conversation about it. And you were like, yeah, I just, like, don't actually like being touched. That, like, it doesn't feel the same feeling that you get being touched that way. It doesn't feel that way for me.

So, I mean, that's actually a really interesting example and almost a reason for why it is so good to just have the conversation as soon as possible rather than relying on, like, non verbal cues. Because I think a lot of people might be tempted to be like, oh, well, this just feels like an awkward conversation. So, like, I'd rather just try to show my partner that this doesn't feel good or that I don't like this. And that's. It's interesting that, you know, your experience there. You know, I wasn't thinking like, oh, let me shudder and make a gross noise so that she'll stop. Stop doing that. But it was sort of like that was happening involuntarily. And then I didn't take it upon myself to be like, hey, you know what? I don't love that. Like, let's not do that. Because I was in my head about all that. Like, oh, well, I'm just. I have. I have this beautiful woman who wants to touch me. Like, I should be enjoying that type of thing. Yeah. It doesn't feel good to kind of receive that energy back from someone. And so having the conversation earlier would have preempted a lot of, you know, Vanessa kind of feeling bad and, like, confused about what was going on.

Yeah. So, like, it's okay for me to feel bummed out that Xander doesn't, like, this kind of touch, that, like, the intention that I want to share with him, like, the energy that I'm trying to give, like, it just. It doesn't come across in that same way to him. So it is okay for me to just feel like, ah, darn, that's, like, a little sad or a little tough. It's not okay for me to say, oh, but, like, I. But I want to, you know, to, like, force him into it or make him feel guilty or make him feel bad. Like, I still have to respect the boundary. He still gets to decide how he's touched and not touched. I'm just saying, like, I just want to give a little bit of validation as the partner of, like, it's okay for you to feel a little bummed about it.

Yeah. And again, that's also why. Just, you know, to reinforce, like, one of the points we already said. That's also why it's so nice to, if you are able to. To give some kind of alternate thing that you like instead. Because that can help, you know, the receiving partner be like, oh, okay. Yeah, I am bummed that, you know, I can't be doing this type of touch. But I'm also learning that, like, if I do this other type of touch, they really love that. So it can be, you know, a good way to kind of redirect or refocus on something else, rather than it just feeling like, oh, they're just like. They just, like, don't want me to touch them, or, like, they just, like, must not enjoy touch as much as I do. But it's like, that's not what anybody is saying. It's not about, like, touch overall. It's just about specific types of touch.

Before we go any further, we have to tell you a little bit more about Cozy Earth. So, Xander, you have been out of town for the last nine days, and you just came home to crawl into bed? Tell me, what was the experience like of coming home to your Cozy Earth sheets?

Oh, God. I was just. The entire plane ride home, I was just dreaming about falling into my bed. I got home pretty late at night. It was like 11:30 at night and I just melted into bed. It's every single time I come home from a trip. Getting into my own bed is so nice. And that is all thanks to Cozy Earth sheets.

We've teamed up with Cozy Earth and they are offering you 35 off when you use the code Pillow Talks at cozyearth.com cozy earth's best selling bamboo sheet set is temperature regulating and incredibly soft. Their bedding collection offers a variety of luxury pillows, sheets, blankets, and so much more. And everything is backed by a lengthy warranty, so definitely check them out. They are our favorite bedding we've ever had. Seriously, we love our cozy Earth sheets so much. And you are getting an incredible discount. Thanks to our friends at cozy Earth, They've given us an exclusive offer for pillow talks listeners today get up to 35% off site wide when you use Code pillow talks@cozyearth.com before we go any further, let's take a quick break to tell you a little bit more about Babbel. So, Xander, I have a riddle for you. What do you call a person who speaks three languages?

Trilingual.

What do you call somebody who speaks two languages?

Bilingual.

And what do you call somebody who speaks one language?

Um, a monolingual person who should probably learn another language.

Un American. Zing.

Badoom.

Did you know that only 22% of Americans speak a language other than English?

Wow.

And we are pretty much within that bucket. So no shade. I mean, we both speak a little bit of Spanish. We both speak a little bit of German. We tried really hard to learn German when we were speaking in Germany.

We did. I learned some Latin in high school.

I did as well.

I also, I also just successfully got in and out of Nicaragua with my Spanish. So I would say my Spanish is a si a si.

And it's gotten a whole lot better because of Babbel.

Sure has.

If you guys haven't heard us talk about Babbel before, it was actually a really funny coincidence that they became a podcast sponsor because maybe two weeks before we heard from them, we signed up for Babbel on our own, spent our own money to pay for it because we both really wanted to get better at Spanish.

And we did all the research ourselves and we had concluded that Babel was the very best option. So it's, it's, you know, great coincidence that Babel is now a podcast sponsor because we can wholeheartedly recommend them.

And we actually did research On Instagram too. Like, we asked our community, what ex. What apps have you tried? What ways have you tried to learn language? What's the best? And we picked Babel in part because so many people said I've tried and used Babel. So. So we are thrilled to be able to share Babbel with you instead of paying hundreds of dollars for a private tutor or fooling yourself with language apps that are little more than games. Been there, done that. Babbel's quick 10 minute lessons are designed by over 150 language experts to help you start speaking a new language in as little as three weeks. They're designed by real people for real conversations. All of their tools and learning a new language are approachable, accessible, rooted in real life situations and delivered with conversation based teachings. And if you do like a little bit of gamification anyways, you know what, there's still a fun little sound that you get to hear when you get the correct answer in Babbel. It's so satisfying.

Oh, it feels so good.

Feels so good. Oh, look at that. Way to go. You did a great job. And Babbel has very generously offered Pillow Talks listeners a special limited time deal to get you started. Right now, get 55% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners@babbel.com pillow. Get 55% off at babbel.com pillow that's spelled B A B-B-E-L.com pillow. Let's move into scenario number two. So this is you've told your partner that you don't like a particular kind of touch, but they are continuing to do it anyway. So we're escalating a little bit.

Yeah, we are escalating. And 38% of our Instagram audience has told their partner how they don't want to be touched and the partner keeps doing it anyway. So that, that's a good amount of people. 4 out of 10 people in this.

Situation, when you turn the percentages into the like 4 out of 10, I'm like, I know, it's just 38.

It feels, it feels more powerful that way. I'm like, hey, four out of ten, two out of five. Look at me doing math in my head. Fractions, baby.

All right. So we asked people, like, okay, when you told your partner that you didn't want to be touched in that way, what was their response? So we're going to read through a couple of them. Some people said, like, they just don't take me seriously. They get defensive and say they Hate being in trouble. They get offended and ignore me for the rest of the day.

Here's some of the other responses people heard from their partners. I'm just being flirty. I'm just joking. It's normal for guys to do blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank, whatever it is. Also, but I love you so much. I just want you. You never want me to touch you. And finally, but they're my boobs too.

Oh, boy. So those are a lot of different kinds of responses. We're gonna get back to those in a minute. But let's start with the overall advice about how to talk to your partner. This is definitely going to necessitate a stronger conversation. It should take place outside of the bedroom. We recommend starting with. With telling them exactly where and how you don't like being touched. So some of the advice that we gave in that first scenario. Again, if you have a story around why you don't like to be touched in that way or in that place, it might be helpful to tell your partner that. But of course, we wanna be clear. You do not have to have a reason, an excuse, an explanation. Like, it's enough to just say, I don't want to be touched here or in this way.

Sometimes your partner just needs to hear this boundary a few times. So in our case, Vanessa alluded to it a little earlier. I don't love being tickled. I'm a bit ticklish. And early on in our relationship, Vanessa used to tickle me a little bit.

Like, actual tickle, not the, like.

Yes, Gentle. Yes. Like actual tickle. Because when Vanessa actually tickles me, I laugh a lot. I respond in the way that most people do when they're being tickled. It kind of of drives me a bit crazy. I get kind of amped up. It kind of like looks like a funny, cute thing, but it doesn't actually feel that way for me. And so, you know, I think what, you know, the challenges would be, I would kind of share, like, immediately after she stopped that I didn't like that. And, well, I mean, so, like, I wasn't following our own advice here of, like, doing it outside of the bedroom or sort of outside of the context. Context. But it took a while. It took a number of times of me sharing that, I think, for Vanessa to really understand the gravity of the situation. And that was challenging because, you know, it didn't feel like a super, you know, a high gravity situation because it would be like I would be. We would both be laughing when it would be happening and I'd Be like, oh, no. Like, no. But, like, don't do that. Please don't.

Yeah, like, from my perspective, I thought that you saying, like, oh, no, don't do that was, like, part of us messing around. And I think this is actually a really common scenario with tickling in particular, because, like, that's the whole thing about tickling. It's like, no, no, no, don't do it. But, like, you're laughing and you're having fun. And so I did hear Xander say a few times, like, you know, stop doing that. Or, like, I don't like that. But I really thought that it was just part of, like, the little game that we were playing. And so it wasn't until, like, many times, you know, afterwards, that you finally shared with me, like, outside of in the moment, like, I actually really don't like being tickled. And that was such a tough moment for me because I was like, oh, fuck. Like, I had no idea. I genuinely did not understand that. And I felt awful, like, finally realizing, like, oh, my God, those times that he was saying, like, no, don't do that. Like, he actually meant, no, don't do that. And, like, it feels very dumb. You know, I'm, like, judging myself and, like, beating myself up a little bit about it. Like, how did I not realize? You know, I say this stuff all the time, like, no means no. And, like, you know, we need to listen to our partners. But, you know, I just wanted to share that example because I think that it's a powerful one that probably a lot of couples have experienced themselves. And again, it's like, my intention was never ever to, like, touch Xander in a way that he didn't like or, like, cause him any sort of upset. Like, it makes me feel so awful to know that I did that. And I hope that that's the case for the majority of situations that, you know, other couples find themselves in. But, yeah, I just think it's a good example to show. Like, sometimes you just. You need to share it with your partner in different ways. So if you've tried telling your partner that you don't like it and it didn't get through to them, share it in a different way, like, in a different context, more separate from the touch. Use different language for it. And you can even call out and say, like. Like, hey, I tried to tell you this before, and I don't think you understood it. But, like, I actually genuinely do not like being touched in this way. So, again, I hope that the situation, when you bring it up with your partner, like, in this stronger, more detailed way, I hope it'll be just a case of a misunderstanding. If your partner, however, is being an asshole about it, then you are going to go straight into scenario three. Okay, so let's get back to those specific responses that people heard from their partners. And we're going to give you a little communication tip for each one.

All right, so I'm going to be the bad partner in these examples. So, like, if I get defensive and I go, oh, but, like, I hate.

Being in trouble, then you can say something like, it bums me out that I'm trying to set an important boundary for my body and you're making this about yourself.

Or if I say, I'm just being.

Flirty, here's how I would like you to flirt instead. So giving your partner other options.

A redirection.

Redirection.

Or if I'm like, but I'm just joking, it's totally normal for guys to punk your boobs.

I don't care what other guys do. You're my guy, and this is what I want from you.

But I love you so much, and I just want you.

I love that you want me. And I still get to set boundaries around how I want my body to be touched. And you can also do another redirect here. Like, I love that you want me. Here's how I want you to show me that you want.

Yeah, I would feel super wanted if you did this, this, and that, but you never want me to touch you.

Having boundaries around touch isn't the same thing as never wanting touch.

Yeah. And I think there. You could also. You could also add, here are some things that I do like. So obviously it is not a never situation. And then finally, this one pains me to say, but. But they're my boobs, too.

No, they are not. They are mine and mine only. This is, like, the dynamic that really upsets me the most in this conversation. Like, there are a lot of people who believe that being in a relationship gives them the right to touch another person's body however they want. And we could not disagree more. Like, I don't care how long you've been together. I don't care if you're married. I don't care if you have kids together. Like, you never are entitled to touch another person's body how you want. You do not own another person's body. You do not get to do whatever you want to do with another person's body. Like, that is completely and utter bullshit. And I'm so sorry to anybody who has a partner who insists that they get to touch you however they want to touch. Like, I. I truly do believe that if your partner believes those are his boobs or their boobs or their butt or whatever it is, like, this is something that I would go immediately to therapy for, and this is something that I would seriously consider ending a relationship over if they did not. Stop.

Stop.

Okay, let's move on to scenario three.

We're ratcheting things up.

Get into it already. Your partner doesn't care that you have a boundary. So you've stated your boundary several times. You've listened to all the advice that we've given, and your partner still isn't listening to you. So they're most likely, you know, being incredibly rude. They might be starting to be aggressive about it. And this also can very quickly and easily cross the line into abuse. I mean, that that is what abuse is. If you've stated a boundary, if you've stated something that you don't want your partner to do and they are continuing to do it anyways, like, especially touching your body like that is crossing the line into abuse. So we, first of all just want to say that we are so sorry that you're going through this again. Like, your partner doesn't get access to your body just because they're in a relationship with you. Like, it's your body, and you deserve a partner who treats your body with love and respect. So we're going to give you a few communication tips for these scenarios. You can talk to your partner and say something like, I have been clear about this boundary. I've talked to you about it multiple times. At this point, it's really feeling to me like you don't care about my boundary. And this has turned into a serious problem for me. So I am going to start enforcing my boundary more strongly. If you don't respect it, we are going to need to go to therapy or, I'm going to end this relationship. That's really how strong I would be in this kind of scenario.

So Vanessa just mentioned starting to enforce a boundary more strongly. So you might be wondering, okay, how do I do that? So here's what you can say. So I've told you very clearly that I don't want you to honk my boobs anymore. And you have refused to respect this boundary. So I am now going to remove myself from the situation, like, physically walk out of the room whenever that happens. And if it keeps escalating, you can say, look, you have repeatedly disrespected this boundary. I'm now removing access to my body from you. You cannot touch me until I feel safe that you are respecting my boundaries again.

Yeah. So we wanted to give you a few tips here for, like, having a conversation for enforcing boundaries. But again, like, we really think that the best course of action is to go into therapy or to consider ending the relationship. Like, this really is a serious situation. If you've told your partner, you know, multiple times and they've expressed that they don't care, they're not going to listen. Like, it's just, you know, this is a really awful situation that nobody deserves to be in. And we really are just sending you all of our compassion and hoping for the best for you. So we want to wrap things up with sharing a couple of resources with you. So we had a number of people who reached out to talk about experiencing abuse or like, having trigger responses very easily to touch. So we wanted to make sure you knew that. We have a free course that we give to survivors of sexual abuse. It's called a survivor's Guide. We will put a link to check that out in the show notes for this episode, or you can find it on our website@vmtherapy.com free. And that guide, it's not meant to be a replacement for therapy, but it really walks you through specific and practical steps for making sex and physical contact start to feel safe again. So that's a really beneficial resource. Again, it's absolutely free. We give it to survivors, so definitely make sure to check that out. A few people also mentioned not enjoying any kind of touch, so we have a couple podcast episodes that you might find useful. Episode 73 is do you ever owe sex to your. Your partner? And episode 99 is the Bristle reaction. What it is, how it happens and what you can do to fix it. And finally, a lot of people mentioned that their partner initiates sex by groping at them. That like, gropy grabby, touch the boob, honk the crotch grab, all kinds of stuff like this gets wrapped up in that. And so we have an incredible course called the art of Initiation. It's our newest course. It has already gotten been so many incredible reviews, but this walks you through how to initiate sex in ways that are actually going to feel exciting and pleasurable and tempting.

Yeah, because in this situation, it might be that, you know, your partner, you know, obviously no one ever taught them how to initiate sex. And so it's easy for us to feel like the only ways that we know how to initiate sex are in these kind of gropy weird ways that aren't very skillful. We don't know how to use our words, or we don't know what other options there are for initiating. And so, you know, it's not like, oh, like, I just want to grope you. It's like, oh, I'm trying to have sex with you. I don't know any other way to start it.

Yeah, this is such a great course. Like, the vast majority of couples, even with if you take the unwanted touch out of it, the vast majority of couples really struggle with initiation. It just doesn't feel fun or exciting anymore. And this course will come completely change the way that you guys initiate. So sex will get started on a better foot, which means you'll have better sex, which means you'll crave more sex. Like, there are so many incredible benefits to this. So that is the art of initiation. And we will put a link to check that out in the show notes for this episode.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about how parents can make time for sex. Sam.