Episode 128: Sneaky Ways To Get Your Partner More Involved In Your Relationship

Here's something that I have noticed as a couples therapist. It is so common for couples to get stuck in a stalemate, waiting for the other partner to take action first. So you've gotten yourself into a place where you're feeling disconnected, you're not really doing anything fun or connecting in the relationship. You're both feeling not great about it, but you're both waiting for the other person to take the lead and to start something. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

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All about how to get your partner more involved in your relationship. We turn to our Instagram audience to get a sense of how big of a problem this is for people. And I think the stereotype would be that women are more invested in relationships. In male female relationships, women are more invested and the men are a little bit less invested. I think that's, that's the stereotype that we see all the time. Right. So we found that 63% of women in our community want their partner to be more involved in their relationship. However, Xander, why don't you share with us the percentage that we discovered for men?

Well, we found an interesting thing, that of the men who responded to our poll, 77% of them also wanted their partners to be more engaged in their relationship. So.

So way more mental. Want their female partners to be more engaged than women want their male partners to be engaged.

Yeah. Now, okay, I have to give the caveat now that this is our Instagram audience. We are an account that is all about how to have a great sex life and a great relationship. So typically, for someone to be following us, unless you're hate following us, they're invested. Yeah. You want, like, you generally are on board with being invested in the relationship and, you know, maybe if you are in a.

You say, unless you're hate following us.

Yeah, I did.

That passed me by.

I know.

Do you think people are hate following us?

No, not really. It was kind of a joke. It was kind of a joke. But I mean, honestly, kind of not a joke too, because I think it's probably not. It's not a joke because a lot of the time you are attracted to a message that maybe part of you doesn't really agree with currently or doesn't want to agree with. But there is some of it that is landing with you somewhere. And very often, I know I've been in this situation. I'm sure you've been in this situation. We have. I wouldn't call it hate following. That's just.

What do you think people are hate listening to the podcast. They're just like these motherfuckers. I hate these guys so much right now. Are you still listening?

Yeah, I don't know. To all the hate listeners out there. I see you, I hear you.

Sorry, go back.

But no, I think that this happens very often. Is that like, you know, there's this, I don't know, protective part of us that doesn't really want to listen to that message, even though, you know, somewhere deeper down we know that we need to hear it and it takes us a long time.

I've been triggered by messages that I knew I needed to hear and I knew were true and accurate, but it's still just like triggering his phone.

Oh, yeah. There are plenty of people whose advice I now readily take where the first couple of times I heard it, I was like, screw this person, screw that. But all that to say that obviously the people responding to this poll are way more likely to be the kind of higher invested person in their relationship, or at the very least, they are very interested in just the general improvement of their relationship and sex life. So I am not surprised that a lot of the men who follow us would like their partner to be more engaged in their relationship.

No, I get what you're saying, but I do think it's still surprising that so many more men. Like, what is that 14% more men want their partner to be engaged than women. I mean, it just. I think if we would have guessed what these results would have been before Polling it, I probably would have said, like, about 65 to 75% of women and maybe like, 25 to 30 of men. That's what I would have guessed.

Yeah. No, I know, because, I mean, we definitely. We know that, you know, we encourage women who follow us to ask their male partners to follow our account as well, because a lot of our messages work really well, and both people are listening, and then you have something to talk about. So I'm sure that there are plenty of, you know, men, partners of women who originally followed us, who are following us now at their partner's request. But, yeah, there are clearly a number of men who have sought us out, probably because they want some support in getting their partner more engaged, too. So. But, I mean, hey, I'm happy there are a lot of people that want help in this area because that's what we're here to provide in this episode.

So let's be clear with this episode title here. Like, I'm a therapist. We wrote a New York Times bestselling book about communication. Like, we are obviously all about people communicating with each other openly and honestly. And we do have a ton of other podcast episodes that you can go back to about opening all kinds of different conversations with your partner. So that is our jam. Just open and honest talk about what you want and need. That being said, we know that not everybody's in that place yet, so maybe you're brand new to the podcast. You're hate listening for the first time, and you're like, oh, I'm just not ready to have those kinds of conversations yet. Maybe you've been listening for a while and you're like, I still just need more time to get into this whole idea. Maybe this is like the first time in your relationship where you're really wanting something to change and you just don't have that foundation of trust of talking about it. Like, there are plenty of reasons why somebody might not feel confident to come right out and say what they want.

Or maybe you feel like you have asked your partner to do this a number of times and they have kind of deflected or brushed you off, and now you're feeling resentful and you're feeling kind of over it. Like, screw that. I shouldn't have to do this anymore. And so, you know, you don't want to have to, like, directly bring it up again.

So, all that being said, this episode is sneaky ways to get your partner more invested in the relationship.

And but by sneaky, we don't mean, like, underhanded or you know, like, here's.

What you're gonna do. You're gonna kidnap them, you're gonna tie them up.

Yeah. And then you're gonna play this podcast for them, and we're done. Cool. That was a fun episode, right? It's so easy. But, no, I mean, I. To be clear, we say sneaky kind of in jest. It's not really meant to be, like, sneaky in a negative way. It's more of just like, how to. How to make this happen in what, you know, where your partner might not know that you are, like, you know, that you are trying to get them to do this. You're trying to encourage them to get more engaged in a way that doesn't maybe feel forced to them or they're not aware of yet.

Gentle. Yeah, gentle, gentle ways. Gentle nudges make your partner more invested in your relationship.

Yeah. You're using the carrot, not the stick.

Okay.

You know, the stick or, you know, the things that you use the zip ties to tie them up and kidnap them and force them to listen to this.

What if we turn this into, like, a. Like a subliminal message type of thing? Like, just play this recording and it's, like, very quietly in the background. It's like, be more invested in your relationship.

Great idea. I mean, get your partner flowers. We might already be doing that. And how would they know?

Dictates.

I mean, they have no idea that we're obviously doing that, so that part is going to get edited out. Don't worry. So they won't hear it. Wink, wink.

It's like that reel we did about messing with your partner's algorithm on their phone. Like, going near their phone. Being like, romantic dates. Gift for wife. Surprises for wife. Nice things to say to wife.

Be more invested in relationship.

Just play this episode around your partner's phone, and maybe it'll switch up their algorithm.

Genius. Genius. But before we get into our sneaky ways, let me sneakily drop in this week's review of the week. Or maybe not so sneaky because I'm telling you about it, but whatever. Here it is. My own personal sex therapists. Thanks, Xander and Vanessa, for being there to talk through everything we are thinking, but don't know how to say. I had to pause the latest episode about boring sex to write this. My husband and I have been going back and forth about how to spice up our sex life. After being married earlier this year and knowing we aren't having kids, we feel the pressure to keep things interesting and new, because what's our excuse? Not to, but that has been putting a lot of pressure on me, the less horned up partner. But guess what? There's an episode for that. Haha. Listening to the mismatched sex drive episode and many others has given me confidence to talk more openly about our sex life and to unleash my inner freak a bit more. Don't wait. Just listen and improve your sex life today.

All right, well, thank you so much for that review. Reviews go such a long way in helping the podcast grow and helping us reach a larger audience. I know it might not seem like a big deal, but it really and truly does. Like, we do this podcast for free. It's a huge labor of love. We love being able to serve so many people and we want to be able to help even more. So it makes such a big difference if you leave a review. And here's how you do it. So you can only do it on Apple podcasts. Go to the main pillow talks page. Scroll down to the bottom. You'll see the review section there. You can just type a quick little review in there. And once you do, we are entering you into our giveaway every single week going forward. So if you hear your review read in an episode, you can email us@infontherapy.com to collect your prize. Oh, we will give you your choice of one of our masterclasses.

Absolutely.

For free. That's just our way of saying thank you. Other quick ways to support the podcast are to follow it wherever you listen to. So if you're not on Apple podcasts, if you're on like Spotify or apparently a bunch of people listen to it on Amazon.

Yeah, Amazon.

Yeah. You can just follow the podcast. That really helps as well.

Yeah, do that on Apple podcasts too. You can also give us a rating. Give us a five star rating on Spotify. That's helpful. Do it all. Help us out, please. Thank you, please.

Thank you, please. Thank you, please and thank you. All right, let's get into it. First, let's talk about, like, why is your partner not more invested in your relationship already?

Yeah, like, why are we here to begin with?

So the first thing I want to throw out is maybe they actually are.

Oh, zing. Episode. Oh, oh, we're done. We're done. That's it. Actually, the answer to this problem is reexamine it. And they are more. All right, thanks.

Well, I mean, looking at Those poll numbers, 63% of women and 77% of men, like, that's a lot of people who are in, you know, are already engaged so maybe you guys are actually kind of miscommunicating with each other or misunderstanding each other in certain ways.

I feel like we. We've definitely been in that scenario before. I mean, I think this is something that comes up around, like, mental load and sort of engagement a lot, where it's like, we are aware of the things that we wish our partner was doing, but then we are often unaware of the things that our partner is doing. And then our partner is thinking the exact same thing. Like, oh, I wish that they were seeing all these things that I'm always. And it's just. Yeah, it's sort of a missing of things or it's like, you know, we take certain things for granted, but not other things. So.

Yeah, but the more important thing that comes up around this is I think that movies and TV make it all seem so simple. Even books. Like, the whole idea behind relationships is, like, there's this fight in the beginning of the relationship to attract the person to, like, lock them down. You know, we put so much effort into those early stages of, like, finding, getting into making the relationship serious. And then people always just let their foot off the gas, right?

Yeah. Let off the gas.

Let off the gas. Okay, so it's just like, we've done it. I got it. I won my partner. We're in a serious relationship, and we feel like we don't have to do anything anymore. And so I think most of us go into relationships, like, we've just seen these scenes played out over and over again that we can't help but, like, embody that in our own relationships. Like, oh, okay, well, cool. Now we don't have to do that stuff anymore.

Yeah, Now I get to relax.

Yeah. I'm just, like, in the relationship. So so many of us don't prioritize really nurturing the relationship, taking care of our partner, trying new things together, like, doing all that kinds of stuff.

Plus, men tend to be socialized to just not be as invested in relationships as women are. I mean, I think that a lot of this is. Is we're in the midst of a lot of changes, I think, societally and kind of like what men are and aren't socialized to do. But I can speak for myself and sort of at my age, and I feel like people generally around my age maybe plus or minus 10 years, it's like, it's not so much that I wasn't socialized to be invested in relationships, but so much early messaging is like, it's like, oh, you're meant to be a Provider, like your role in the family is to, like, go out and earn money and provide a place to live, buy a house, all this stuff. And so it's like, you know, I come away feeling like, oh, well, you know, if I'm holding up my end of the bargain, I'm making a lot of money, I'm saving for us. I'm making sure that everyone is taken care of. And so, you know, it's just that my, my way of looking at, like my role, you know, through movies, through tv, through books, through just the, all the messages that I received growing up is like, that's where my value is added. And I think that that is definitely changing. We are asking a lot of questions about that because the reality is men do not have a monopoly on going out and earning money. Like, employment rates, I think are pretty similar between men and women. Women very often out earn men in many fields. So it doesn't make sense to think that way anymore. And yet so many of the messages that we receive just reflect that and hammer that home for us.

Another reason is it just feels like work. I mean, I think in the beginning stage of a relationship, it feels fun to get to know somebody, to be dating them. And then as a relationship drags on, we start to focus more on the negative things. And we even present this like, ugh, you need to work on the relationship more. Like, why aren't you spending more time with me? Why are you always on your phone? And it just gives this heavy feeling. And we're going to talk about that later in the episode. But I think most people, it just feels like a bummer to have to, like, work on your relationship.

Yeah, I mean, we don't even really like that term work on your relationship. Especially if you both work challenging jobs, you already associate the work work with something that's maybe tedious, maybe something that you don't love or you aren't super passionate about. I mean, for Vanessa and me, like, we both do, we're so lucky in that we do something for work that we love and we are super passionate about. So for me, that word isn't triggering at all. It's like, oh, yeah. I mean, I work every day and at the same time, it doesn't really feel like that much work. But I totally get that for most people, you know, your work, your job is a means to an end. And so then hearing that, like, oh, like, so I come home from work and now I need to work on my relationship. Like, I don't want to work. Like, I'm coming home from work. Right. So I can totally understand there's a huge disconnect there.

I'll also say just general life stress and overwhelm. Like, most of us, we're working these stressful jobs. We are really busy, we have a lot on our plate, and it's just very easy to take your partner and your relationship for granted. We just think of it as like, yeah, my partner's there, everything's fine. You know, I don't have to put any effort into it, especially when I'm stretched so thin in every other area of my life.

And then finally, I think just like, some level of laziness or procrastination. I know for me, I have definitely been guilty of this a lot in the past and definitely still sometimes in. In the present. Like, it's more of a. It's more of a. Like, I have an idea of. It would be a good idea for me to do something. I should do something. And yet at the same time, it's like, it's not urgent. It doesn't feel urgent. Like, oh, yeah, if. If I don't go plan this date night, like, we're going to get a divorce or, like, we're not going to be able to pay the bills or, you know, something really serious. And so it's so easy when something doesn't feel as urgent as maybe five other things that you need to do to just be like, oh, well, okay, I'll wait a little bit on that one. But the problem with the waiting, it's not actually the waiting. It's really the. It's the waiting and then continuing to wait. You know, I'll often be like, oh, okay, well, I'll do the other two things that are super important right now, and then I'll do that other thing. The problem is, after you do those first two things, you don't actually come back and execute on that third thing. And so then every day goes by, of course, other more important things are going to come up. And so it just kind of cascades and cascades. And eventually then it's like, okay, yeah, I guess that kind of is some laziness coming up.

Okay, next, we asked our Instagram community, if you feel like your partner is not engaged in the relationship, what would you like to see more of them doing? And we told people, like, get some specific. We'll loop back to this idea later, too. But it's not helpful to just say, like, be more involved. We wanted specific answers.

Yeah, because I. And I think this is so important because this is where these conversations often fall flat on their faces. Right from the beginning is when, you know, if you just present this general like, hey, I want you to work on our relationship more, or like, I'm feeling disappointed because it doesn't feel like you're putting in as much effort. That's a very broad and vague thing. And it's, it's really hard to receive that and be like, okay, what am I gonna do about that? And it's kind of like if your boss comes to you at work and they're like, I just need you to do better.

Oh, God, like, what do you, like.

You almost, you might even just feel defeated right from the beginning. Like, okay, so you're telling me. So you're implying I'm not doing a good job because I need, I need to do better. So I'm clearly not doing a good job. You also don't even care to tell me, like, what I could be doing better. There's a million things I could be doing better, but I don't even know where to start. So, like, I'm screwed. And I think I feel like most of us have probably had this experience in work or in school or somewhere. I think we have this experience like, pretty early on in life a lot. And so very often, like, I know for me, I go when I hear something like that, I'm like, well, screw that. If you're not going to give me any specifics, like, what am I going to like? I can't just be better out of thin air in every little thing. And there's already things I think I'm doing pretty well. So you just tend to disregard that when it's super vague and open ended.

So let's go to the specific answers. So here were some of the most popular answers. These ones came up time and time again planning dates together. And in general, like, people want more quality time together. A lot of people said it feels like my partner just like doesn't spend a lot of time with me. We don't have intentional time together. So they really wanted their partner to be more active in planning dates.

This is also such an easy one. I have to say. I think that we get in our heads so much about date planning, especially when it kind of gets brought up like, hey, feels like you never planned dates for me or whatever. Because when it comes up in that context, it feels like in order to fix the problem, you have to plan this really elaborate big thing. And I think the dynamic that also often comes up is someone goes, okay, all right, to placate my partner, I'm gonna plan this really huge thing, and then you do this really big thing, and, hey, hopefully it's really meaningful and great. But then after that, you're like, oh, that was. That was a lot. I just did this big thing, like, I'm good for a while, and then you get right back into that same situation. Whereas if you just, like, go on. Go on, like, open table and start making, like, reservations at restaurants for, like, you know, every other week or every month or something, like, you could probably spend.

Knock out a bunch of 10 minutes.

And you could knock out date nights for the next many months for free. Like, super, super easy. Like, it. What. What everybody wants is just. It's the consistency. It's. It's not that big gesture, maybe unless you're in, like, a challenging place or, you know, your partner's really upset. But, like, long term, like, all date night needs to be is just consistently doing it. It doesn't need to be anything big and special. And it can take 10 minutes to get that set up for the next, like, 90 days.

Okay.

Other answers were more romance and flirtation throughout the day. Just, like, wanting to feel more of that connection to each other. Less screen time was a huge one. This is a big, big annoyance. And we do have a separate podcast episode about this if you want to check that out. And also just speaking each other's love languages. So the general idea of, like, doing things for each other that, you know, are meaningful to your partner, not like, oh, well, this is how I like to show love.

I think. I think people get so tripped up on the. The speaking each other's love langu as well. Being, like, thinking that what that advice is, is, like, all of a sudden, I just have to. I have to rewire myself to be the complete opposite of how I am. Or it's like, I need. People hear that and think, oh, I need to go from zero to, like, fluently speaking my partner's love language. And that's not the way it's ever going to work, honestly. You're probably never gonna fluently speak your partner's love language. Lit. Love language. It's just about. It's about putting in the effort and, you know, training yourself to get that habit of thinking about, ah, how might this land with my partner? How might my partner like to receive this, given what I know about them? It's kind of just like, preferences. Like, we were just talking about making dinner reservations, right? Like, if you've been with your partner for a while, you probably know what cuisines they do and don't like. Even if you like different ones, you're not like, oh, God, like, I keep making reservations for Chinese food, and I can never remember, remember that they don't like Chinese food. Right. But, you know, you probably didn't know that in the first month that you started dating them, but you do at this point. So remind yourself with love languages. It's the same thing. It's just slowly, slowly training yourself. It's not like you have to change who you are. It's just that you need to put a little bit of an effort in to start to remember their preference.

And our final hot topic super popular response was showing a willingness to research how to be a better partner. So doing things like listening to podcasts, reading books, doing our challenges, like, people really want to feel like their partner is willing to take the initiative and, like, learn new things for themselves. And a lot of it is the mental load too. Like, not, you know, I don't want to have to tell you all the time, okay, here's what I need you to do to be a good partner. And, like, I read these five books, and I want you to read this one because I think it's the best one. It's like, taking on some of that load of, like, hey, let me do some research. Let me look for a good podcast for us to listen to.

Yeah. And also to be really clear, like, this doesn't need to be an army race. Or, like, a comparison of, like, okay, well, I did three hours of reading this week. I know you only did two. So therefore, I'm more invested. Like, these are suggestions that Vanessa just gave for ways that you can show a willingness and how to be a better partner. But ultimately, like, ultimately this is just comes down to, like, making suggestions regularly for, like, hey, like, let's try this, let's try that, let's talk about this. Like, I think it's more of the outcome of that stuff. Like, like, that's why very often the more engaged partner might say, hey, it would be great if you read this or if you research that. Because presumably in reading that or researching that, you would come with some things to talk about or some ideas or suggestions. But it's like, however you want to come up with those ideas or suggestions. Like, you could do that however you want. And I think the outcome is the same is your partner perceives that, oh, wow, you are invested. You're thinking about this stuff. You're wanting to try new things. Things.

And I will say, I think this is where some of the gender socialization comes in as well. Like, I think women are socialized, or maybe we're just more comfortable, like, looking for resources, looking for tools, like, consciously, you know, looking outside of ourselves for these things where I think men get a lot more pressure that you're supposed to know it all and just be very competent and, like, not have to look elsewhere. And this is something, to be totally honest, like, this. This is something that has come up in our relationship.

Oh, yeah.

I feel like the majority of our relationship, I've been the one, like, pushing for more growth, and it's felt like you've been happier with, like, you've been the, like. Well, I'm happy where things are, and I'm more of the like. But there's so much for us to learn and so many ways for us to grow. And, like, I've definitely been the one reading the books and looking for the podcast and like, hey, can we listen to this? And that's. Yeah, that's been something that's been hard for me. And so phases of our relationship as well, like, wanting to see you coming to the table with some resources.

Yeah. I mean, like you were saying, I think it just comes down to that male socialization of, like, we're supposed to have it all figured out. We are not supposed to ask for help. But I think there's two things. One, you gotta ask for help. Everybody needs help in life. And I think as. As soon as we can just sever that, like, that connection of like, oh, I'm a man, and men don't ask for help. I should do it all alone. Like, first of all, that's just faulty thinking. That's not gonna help you in any part of life. We all help. Part of being human is we help each other, and when we need help, someone else is there to give it. But I think that the other part of that is reading a book or Googling something online for some idea for your relationship that isn't even asking for help. It's just researching. So it's like, even if you do want to feel like, oh, I'm not supposed to, I can't possibly ask for help. Like, doing a Google search and reading someone's article or listening to a podcast is not an admission that you are a horrible person that doesn't know what they're doing. Like, it's just listening to something. It's like. Like reading. Like, reading the news is like, finding out about what is going on in the world, and you got to choose what you do with that or what you think about that. It's the same for all of this stuff.

All right, and finally, let's round out the list with some other responses. We had initiation, both sex and initiating conversations. And actually, I think the conversations thing is secretly one of the things that bothers couples in long term relationships the most. I think so many couples feel like we just don't have anything to talk about anymore. Like, the beginning of the relationship, it felt like you could just talk for hours about everything and nothing. And now it's like, I can't think of a single interesting question to ask my partner. And it's very easy to blame your partner for. I mean, I've experienced this where there have been times that I'm like, I got nothing to say. I got nothing to say. I got nothing to say. And then I find myself getting irritated.

At you about, why isn't he saying something?

Why isn't he saying something? It's very easy to project that onto your partner and want your partner to do that. Okay. Some other answers were help with the household chores or the mental load. We have a couple of episodes about mental load that are very important. Definitely listen to those words of affirmation and acknowledgement, of contributions. And finally following through with things they say they'll do. I remember. I can't remember exactly what it was, but, like, I saw some sort of meme that was like, there is nothing sexier to a woman than a man who does what he says he's gonna do. And I. My jaw dropped when I read that. I was like, that is. I've never put words to that before, but that is absolutely true. That is, like, not all. It's attractive. It's a turn on. It makes me feel safe. Like that. That is the cheat code to women. I'm gonna go out there and say it. That is the cheat code to women. Doing the things that you say you're gonna do. It does everything for us.

Yeah, don't talk about it, be about it.

Okay. All right, let's move into our tips, our sneaky ways to get your partner more invested in your relationship. So the first one, we actually covered a bit already. Xander went into this a bit.

The, like, sorry, I spoiled it.

You spoiled a little bit.

It's okay.

Well, you know, I teed everyone up, up. So this is just gonna land so well because I already greased the wheel.

Okay, great. So the first tip was to get clear about what it is that you want. Like, you can't just say, be more invested or do more, do better. Like, you have to be specific. And so our recommendation here is like, maybe write out a list or just, you know, re listen to the part of the episode where we went over the other suggestions. Think about the ones that would be most meaningful and valuable to you, and then pick one specific thing that you want your partner to work on or to do more regularly. Because if you go to your partner and say, okay, I need you to be more invested in the relationship, Here are my 10 things that you need to do more often. Or even if you do it in these sneaky ways, like, that's just gonna be too much for your partner. So let's pick one thing that you want your partner to do. Get comfortable with that, get some momentum going, and then work your way up to requesting more and more things from your partner.

Okay, so then moving into the second tip, once you kind of have some clarity for yourself on what are the things you want, like, we were just saying, like, you know, let's not bombard your partner with, like, the list of 10 things. So look through those and pick something fun to start with, because we don't want this working on your relationship or investing in your relationship or being engaged in the relationship, whatever you want to call it. We don't want that to feel like work because we already talked about, like, how we just generally don't have the greatest association with the word work. So, like, we don't. One, like, hey, it probably would help to not call it work or hard work or whatever it is. So even though some of those requests or needs that you've outlined, maybe on the heavier side, really do everything you can to pick something fun and ideally something fun and doable to start with. So that might be like, you know, going on more fun dates together or starting a new hobby together. And the reason that we suggest this is because if it feels like fun, it's going to be easier to execute on. And because it's fun, it's something that's going to be enjoyable for the two of you when your partner does it. So it's going to be fun for them, and it's going to be easy to do, and then you're going to enjoy doing it together. It's going to create this positive feedback loop. And, you know, and then it's easy for you to also praise your partner for like, hey, that was awesome.

Thank you so much for selling another one.

Oh, God. Oh, my God. Well, okay.

Xen are too excited about this episode.

I won't spoil it. I won't spoil it too much. But I mean, it creates this real virtuous cycle rather than being like, you know, giving your partner the hardest one. Because honestly, I think a lot of us are tempted to do that if it's, especially if it's like we're feeling kind of resentful of our partner or it's been a long time that we've been kind of stewing with this. I wish they would do more. I get the temptation to be like, well, hey, I want you to step up. I want you to do this challenging thing. Like, I want you to show me something. I totally understand that. But you know, think about that example I gave about like, if you, you know, your boss is like, I just need you to do a better job at your job. Like, you might be like, okay, shoot, I'm gonna start looking for another job. Cause I don't know what to do with this. That's, I mean, so that's why we pick the easy thing, the fun thing first.

Yeah. So for example, let's say you want your partner to be on their phone list. Like if you tell your, like be on your phone less, that's not gonna feel fun for them. Like they're gonna, maybe one day they'll put their phone down, but like they're gonna be right back at it the next day. Right. But if instead it's like, think of something fun that you guys could do instead. Like, hey, could we do a. Every single night after dinner, we do like a 10 minute walk around the neighborhood. Like, that is gonna be so much more fun. It's gonna be more connecting. You're inevitably gonna have those 10 minutes where you're off your phones. Maybe that's part of the ritual. Like we leave our phones at home and we do little stroll around the neighborhood. Like, that's just gonna feel so much more meaningful. So I think that's just a great way of thinking about, like just little tweaks on what you wanna ask of your partner.

Yeah. Also, I mean, I think another kind of pro tip is like, if you start doing more of the positive things or the fun things, you might actually find yourself less concerned about some of those more like negative things. Like you might even, you know, you might start doing, oh, we're doing more date nights, we're going on walks, we're doing little relationships. Check ins more regularly. After a couple weeks of that, you might be like, God, you know what? Like the, the being on your phone thing, like, isn't actually bothering. It doesn't actually bother me. That much. And actually, I want to do it too. I think it's just so easy when things feel a little tense or it's so easy to be like, call out like, oh, here's the hundred things that are wrong. Because honestly, as humans, like, it's easier for us to fixate on the things that are wrong. That's how we have survived as a species. Rather than always identifying, oh, Here are the 10 things that are right versus the one thing that is wrong. Identifying the one thing that's wrong has kept us alive. But now, in the place that we're at, in houses, with medicine, with technology, it doesn't need to be like that anymore. You know that feeling you get when you finally find the thing you've been searching for on the Internet after spending hours researching and reading thousands of reviews, you find it, this thing, whatever it is, whether it's a custom surfboard, designer dog, hoodies, a niche thing from a wood shop in Prague. Believe me, we've looked for all these things ourselves. That thing checks literally all your boxes and it has five stars. Oh, and the icing on the cake, it arrives in just 48 hours. So why is it that you can get the most random, wonderfully reviewed thing from around the world in just two days? But if you want to see a good doctor, it can take forever to get an appointment. Not to mention, how do you know if they're even that good? Thankfully, there is a way. It's called zocdoc. A place to find and book great doctors who actually have amazing reviews, many with appointments available within 24 hours. ZocDoc is a free app where you can find amazing doctors and book appointments online. We're talking about booking appointments with thousands of top rated patient reviewed doctors and specialists you can filter specifically for ones who take your insurance, are located near you, and treat almost any condition you're searching for. And if you want to dig deep, these doctors have all verified reviews from actual real living patients, not bots. And the average wait time to see a doctor that people book on Zocdoc is between just 24 to 48 hours. That's it. That's even faster than the 48 hour shipping I was talking about before. Often you can even score same day appointments. So once you find the doctor that you like, you book them immediately with just a few taps in the app. That means you don't have to wait awkwardly on hold with a receptionist. You don't even need to talk to anybody. I know the next time I am needing a doctor, I am definitely going to be using ZocDoc. So go to ZocDoc.comPillow and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's z o c-o c.com pillow zocdoc.com.

Pillow okay, so I have to tell.

You a funny story. We have had a really interesting string of experiences where I buy something with our own money and then that company becomes a podcast sponsor. And the latest in this pattern is Uncommon Goods.

So a couple of weeks ago it.

Was my brother in law's birthday. I really wanted to get him like a unique and creative gift. He's a really interesting person. We love him to death. We wanted to get something cool for him. So he's a train lover. So I google unique gifts for train lovers and one of the first things that comes up is from Uncommon Goods and it's a 3D train puzzle. Just like super cool, very unique. I've never seen anything like it. The quality just looks unreal. I bought it immediately, gave it to him as a gift and it was a huge hit.

He loved it.

He said like I've never seen anything like this. I'm such a train lover. I have like all this train gear and gadgets and gizmos and all this stuff, but like I've never seen anything like this. This is one of the coolest gifts I've ever gotten. So I felt like such a good sister in law.

I felt so excited.

And then lo and behold, a couple of weeks later, Uncommon Goods approached us and asked us to be a podcast sponsor. And I was like slam dunk.

I got this gift. It was so great.

The whole experience was so easy. Like I am happy to recommend this company. So if you've never heard of them before. Uncommon Goods is an online shop dedicated to unique and high quality gifts made by artists and small independent businesses. The items are often handmade, often made in the US and they have everything. Like I was actually shocked by how much stuff they have on their website. Art, jewelry, kitchen, home, bar, goods. They really have something special to choose for everybody on your list. And of course we are approaching the holiday season. If you're like me, like you like getting people creative and unique gifts. Like we don't want to keep giving the same boring stuff over and over again. So Uncommon Goods is such a great.

Place to look for all of your gifts.

With every purchase you make at Uncommon.

Goods, they also give back a dollar.

To a nonprofit partner of your Choice. And they have, to date, donated more than two and a half million dollars. So not only did I have a great personal experience with it, but just.

From a values perspective as well.

Like, I think this is such a great company. So I'm really excited to partner with them.

Really excited for you to get.

To check out everything that they offer. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com pillow don't miss out on this limited time offer that is 15% off@uncommongoods.com pillow okay, our next tip.

Is a little bit more on the direct side, but I still think it technically counts as slightly sneaky. So give your partner a list of things that make you feel loved and appreciated. And you can do this as, like, as a cute exercise together, like, hey, let's sit down together, and like, both make lists of things that make us feel loved and appreciated. Because I think a lot of times we just forget about what our partner enjoys. We forget about what our partner, like, what makes them feel good. And so if you turn this into a cute exercise and then you guys each have the list and maybe you put it in each other's phones or you put it on a little post it on your closet door or something like that, like somewhere where you can remember it, then again, it's still this same focus on the positive and on the fun things that we've been talking about, but it's also giving your partner that consistent reminder.

Yeah, this is exactly the same idea as like, giving your partner a Christmas list, a birthday present list, you know, like a list of gifts that you might like to receive for whatever given holiday requires gifts. Right. Like, I know for me, I fall into this trap all the time. We'll be doing whatever, like, in the course of our day, Vanessa will say something about something that she needs or like, oh, that would make a great gift. And in my mind, I'm always like, oh, yeah, that's. That's obvious. That's such a great gift. Like, I'm gonna remember that. Cause it seems so clear and obvious in the moment. And then two days later, I'll be like, oh, shit, what was that gift? So I have learned that I keep a list on my phone of good gifts for Vanessa. And every time she says something and I have that thought, I've now trained myself. Okay, I write that down. I also ask Vanessa, like, you know, when we're coming up on the holidays, like, hey, like, would you mind giving me a list of things that you might like for that or for your Birthday or whatever it is. I think this is the exact same thing. Like, we don't need to. You wouldn't hesitate to give people a list of things that you might want for your birthday. So why would you hesitate to give your partner the same list for things that are going to make you feel good?

I'm going to call you out there. I think a lot of people would hesitate to make a Christmas list or a gift list.

True, true.

But I don't think we should. I think we should feel good, like, telling our partner here of the things that I want, like setting them up for success. I don't.

And setting yourself up for success to be happy when you get the things you want.

I think it's a lot of pressure to put on your partner to have this expectation that they should always be able to come up with the perfect gifts for you. But I will say I think you're. Some people listening to this are going to be like, xander, I don't like that one. Okay, let's move ahead. Our next tip. This one is a full on sneaky, sneaky one, which is to listen to our podcast or our Instagram stories. We're at. Vanessa and Xander, if you're not following us yet, you absolutely should be. So listen to the podcast or our Instagram stories out loud so your partner conveniently overhears.

Yeah, just unnecessarily loud. Crank that volume up on your phone so that you ensure they overhear.

Yeah.

Make it louder than whatever they're listening to.

I just think, like, especially with, you know, we're talking about sex all the time, your partner's ears are gonna perk up. Like, wait, did I just hear the word sex? Like, did I just hear the word penis? Like, what is. What are they listening to? Like, they're naturally. It's gonna catch their attention and then they're gon paying attention to, like, hearing us talk about stuff. And I just think that so much of our business is based on this idea of, like, just blame us, you know, like, just blame us for it. It's one thing for you to go to your partner and say, I want you to do this or you're not doing this or I want you to be better at it. It's a totally different thing to hear two strangers saying objective relationship advice like, hey, we think that, that men should really be more involved in helping out with the mental load. Like, it's just not personal coming from us. And so your partner is not likely to get defensive or annoyed or ignore it. They're gonna be more likely to take it in. So let us be the ones to introduce ideas to your partner or bring topics up or plant a little seed in the back of their mind. We are happy to play that role for you. Another thing that you can do is play the podcast or Instagram stories and ask your partner for opin about things that we've given our advice about. So, for example, like, start off listening to a podcast episode that maybe doesn't have anything to do with your relationship. Like, if you have this sense of, my partner's gonna understand what I'm doing right away. Like, pick a more neutral episode, Something that you guys don't argue about. It's not an issue. And you can play something, pause it, and then ask your partner, like, hey, what do you think about that advice? So when you're talking about relationship stuff and stuff, sex stuff, in a more objective way, it's so much easier to talk about.

Yeah. And in a depersonalized way where it's like, oh, this is, you know. Oh, like, yeah, because, like, think about, like, episodes where we talk about other people's problem. Like, where people send in their arguments or something.

Like, yeah, like the am I the asshole? Episode or the, like, deconstructing fights episode.

Yeah, like, the communication stuff. That's so good. It's like, hey, what would you. What advice would you give to this couple?

Yeah. So that. That'll get them engaged and listening and the two of you talking about stuff. And then you can start playing the episodes or the stories that are a little bit more applicable to your situation. We also, over on Instagram, we have a whole reel series called I Want my Partner to Overhear. And we ask people to send in, like, tell us a specific phrase or a topic that you want us to cover, and, like, we will do the work for you. We'll make a reel where we say that thing, and you can just conveniently be listening to it when your partner's in the room.

Oh, wow. It just randomly came on.

Oh, so interesting. Okay, our next tip is compliments.

Oh, the one I spoiled?

The one that you spoiled. Give your partner all the praise in the world when they do the things that you like. Compliments make people feel so good, they make us feel extra special. And most importantly, they are. Are motivating.

Oh, yes.

So here's the thing. Like, if you're in a season of your relationship where you feel like your partner isn't engaged, maybe you're starting to get frustrated. Maybe you're even, like, very resentful of Your partner. Likely what has happened is that you've started withholding compliments, maybe purposefully, maybe not purposefully, but it's like, it makes sense. You're frustrated. Like, you don't want to tell your partner nice things because you're annoyed with them, or you feel like they're not doing what you want them to be doing. But. But all that does is further deincentivizes. Is that the word?

Yeah, deincentivizentivize.

Okay. Further deincentivizes your partner to do any of those things. Like, research has found time and time again, humans respond so much better to positive motivation and reinforcement than to negative reinforcement. So you complaining to your partner, that's just not gonna make them make any actual change. Whereas you complimenting them when they do do the things that you like, like is so much more likely to have them continue to do those things. So I know the question you might be asking right now is like, okay, but my partner has not done anything lately that is deserving of the compliment, so what do I do? That is our next tip for you, which is to reminisce about the past. So you give a compliment to your partner about something that they did before. So you're still getting all the benefits of giving the compliment, even if your partner is. Is currently not doing those things. So it could sound something like this. Like, you know what I was just thinking about? I was just remembering that thing you did a while back that was really sweet of you, and I don't think I ever thanked you for that in the moment, but it really made me feel so loved and special and important.

Because what you're actually telling your partner is not only do they feel good about that, they go, oh, if I did something like that again, maybe right now, or very soon, if I set something up like that, like, oh, I'm gonna make them feel like that, and that's gonna make them feel good. And then they're probably gonna say something nice to me. Like, it's planting the seed. It's showing them, hey, this is how easy it is. Like, this is what you need to do to make me feel this way. It's kind of like, you know, you're setting them up for the slam dunk.

And this tip combined with the tip about starting with fun things, those two tips can be so powerful together, where it's like, oh, yeah, I loved when you took me out on that date night, or we started that little ritual of having the weekly check in or something like that, but doing it with something that's fun. Our next tip is to show appreciation in front of friends and family. So this is like taking compliments to the next level. It's one thing when it's just the two of you alone, like, giving your partner a compliment, that's still great. But giving your partner a compliment in front of other people, that is a surefire way to pump them up, make them feel good, and make them feel motivated to continue doing those things. So you will continue pumping them up in front of your loved ones?

Yeah, I mean, I think this is. This is like, you know, if you've ever worked sort of in a, like, office or corporate environment or, I mean, any kind of work environment, it's sort of like if you're like, if your boss compliments you in the presence of their boss or something like that, or maybe like, the big boss is complimenting you in the presence of, like, other senior people on the team or in the office. I know that's happened to me before, back in my corporate years. And it feels so good because it's like, oh, wow. This person that everybody really respects and listens to is saying good things about me and is talking about me. That feels so good. So, yeah, think about, if that's ever happened to you, how nice that is. It's kind of a similar thing doing that around family. And it's like, oh, oh, you know, oh. Like, this person's mom and dad who really love them and really care about them is knowing that I am doing things, like, really great things for their daughter, for their son, for their. Whatever the relationship is.

Our next tip is to create a ritual, like some sort of ritual around doing a relationship enriching activity. We love rituals because we think that they're a fun and simple way to create consistency. So you can do rituals in any way that you want. Our favorites tend to be little things that you can do every day. I think the more regular you are about it, and that's why we try to make it something that feels little. The more regular you are about it, then the more you're just gonna cement that into your habits. You're not even gonna have to think about it so much anymore. They also are a way to make things feel fun and special so it's not about, like, oh, here we go, having to do all our hard relationship work yet again. It makes it feel like this secret thing between the two of you, like your little secret language that the two of you share, inside jokes, that type of thing. So, for example, we already talked about the possibility of like, a walk after dinner without your phones. Maybe it's like, showering together every night before bed. Maybe it's saying three things you love about each other right before you go to bed or first thing when you wake up in the morning.

Morning.

And finally, our last tip is to be invested in your relationship. So here's. But for real, though, here's something that I have noticed as a couples therapist. It is so common for couples to get stuck in a stalemate, waiting for the other partner to take action first. So you've gotten yourself into a place where you're feeling disconnected. You're not really doing anything fun or connecting in the relationship. You're both feeling not great about it, but you're both waiting for the other person to take the lead and to start something.

Or maybe you're feeling like, oh, my partner's really not invested, or they're not doing this and they're not doing that, and you go, oh, I. I know how to. I know how to, like, get back at them. I won't do these things that I usually do. Or, like, I can play this game. But it's like you are initiating playing a game whose terms, like, your partner is not aware of because you haven't talked about this. So it's like you're starting. You know, you're making a deal, and they're not even aware that you're making a deal or playing a game or whatever.

Yeah. Sometimes it's even a test, too. Like, okay, fine, I won't plan date night anymore. Let's see how long we go until my partner gets their act together and plans a date night.

Yeah. And who wins from that? No one. Because no date nights get planned. No one goes on date night. Sorry, you both lost.

But it's. I understand the temptation. Like, we have been there, you know, in seasons of our own relationship where we're feeling disconnected and like, we were talking about earlier. Like, it's so easy to project onto your partner and to, like, want them to be the one to take the action or feel like they're the one who's at fault for the disconnection. So I've seen so many couples stuck in this place for months, sometimes even years of waiting for the other person to take that first step. And what's really interesting is that when I would, like, get in there with the clients and really break it down and start digging into it, it's like they're both wanting the same thing. And that's what we were sort of talking about earlier, too of, like, maybe your partner actually is more invested in the relationship than you realize. There's just some sort of, like, way that you guys are missing each other. So do not get stuck in this stalemate.

I will tell you as a therapist.

You'Re never going to get progress from the stalemate, from a test, from a game. Your relationship needs somebody to step up and be the bigger person and take that first step. And I know, like, I'm a person who can get into my head sometimes about fairness. Like, it's not fair. I did this last time. Why won't my partner do it? Like, I get it.

You know what, Vanessa? Life ain't fair.

Oh, God. That was what my parents always said to me, and I hated it. But no, for real, I get it. But just be the bigger person. Like, that's what relationships ask of us. Like, to be the bigger person, to take the lead sometimes, even when we feel like it shouldn't be us time and time again. And of course, there are exceptions to this. Like, if you are the only person making effort for years and years and years, like, of course we're not going to say that you need to keep doing that. But for. For the average couple where it's like, there's just a little bit of disconnection, you're feeling kind of frustrated and annoyed. Like, be the bigger person and take that step. So show your partner love in the ways that they like to be loved. Show them that you are invested in the relations to. Don't just sit back waiting for them to come to you or them to take the lead. So challenge yourself to do that, and it will inspire your partner to do the same. Like, if your partner sees you making an effort, if your partner is feeling loved and cared for and important, like, they're gonna wanna rise to the occasion as well. You're not gonna get, like I was saying, like, you're not gonna get progress by grinding your heels in and being annoyed at each other. Like, you're gonna get progress by being kind and generous to each.

I mean, if. One more reason not to do that. If anything, you are actually risking, like, doing, like, the opposite of progress because you stop doing. You stop showing up for your partner in the ways that you would like them to show up for you in. And, you know, we've talked about creating habits. The longer you do that, you are actually creating the habit of also not being a great partner, of, like, not doing certain things. And so let's say. Say. Let's say that your game works and your partner finally does go, oh, God, it's been forever since I planned a date night. I'm gonna start planning date nights again. And then like, what, you're supposed to just flip a switch and kind of like, turn the tap back on with, like, going back to the way that you used to act. Like, you may have developed the habit of actually being disengaged, and it may be harder than you think to get back to where you were. So, yeah, we don't do that.

Okay, so to make this practical, one thing you can do is just come right out and ask your partner, what are the things that I do that make you feel really loved and cared for? Or what can I do to make you feel loved and cared for? Or maybe you suggest doing that exercise we mentioned earlier of like, making your lists for each other. So you asking that of your partner is just naturally going to trigger your partner to think about the inverse. Like, unless your partner's a raging lunatic, like, if they hear you asking them that, they're going to give you their answer and then say, well, what about you?

All right, now I have to jump in here now and just say I have to come clean about something. Uh oh, and that's that. I very sneakily saved the sneakiest idea, the best idea for last.

Sneaky MC Sneakerson over here.

Sneaky MC Sneakerson over here. I've been withholding, stumbled on that. I have been withholding from you. You. The very best tip to sneakily get your partner re engaged or more engaged in your relationship. And that is, it's super simple. We do all the work for you. All you have to do is join our connection challenge. If you've never heard of our connection challenge, what it is, is it is 30 days of connection prompts. So what that means is every day you get two prompts, one communication prompt and one action prompt. So the communication prompt is going to to be something to talk about that is going to get you feeling more connected and an action of like, something that you guys can do together that is going to get you feeling more connected. None of these things take very long. It's two to 15 minutes a day. They don't require any extra purchases. They don't require any props. They don't require any, like, intense pre planning. Like, you can do any of these in any given day as long as you have that time available to you. You. And you know, ultimately it's just really designed to get both of you more.

Invested in your relationship, but without it feeling like work.

Yes.

This is so much fun to do together. And it also turns into a ritual, like our other tip we were mentioning.

Yeah, it does, because, yeah, if you start doing something every day for 30 days or even if you decide, hey, we're not going to do it every day, we're going to do it every other day, we're going to do it once a week, like, that repetition. By the end of this, by the end of 30, you know, 30 days, 30 weeks, whatever you choose to do with it, like, you will have created a ritual, you will have created a habit where it's something that you just show up and do and something that you enjoy doing together, rather than it feeling like you have to pull teeth, like, oh, God, shouldn't we do that connection thing again?

I'll also say this is a great solution for people who don't really know what they want or need.

Yes. I think.

Think that's.

That's something that can happen very often is, like, you just feel this sense of disconnection from your partner, but you don't know how to get back to feeling connected. Like, you can't put your finger on anything specific. Like, I don't. I don't know. Like, I don't want to do the walk thing. Like, my partner generally, like, helps out with the mental. Like, I just can't put my finger on it, but I feel like something is off or not complete or, like, even just a sense of it could be better. So if you were listening to some of our earlier tips about, like, be specific and come up with the list, and you're like, I just don't know. This is such a good solution for you because we've put it all together for you. And the specific things that are in the challenge, they're very fun, they're very easy, very doable, but they're also very sneaky. I really, you know, put my therapist hat on here, all my marriage and family therapy training to come up with specific prompts that are not just generic, like, you know, random things like, these are genuinely going to create more intimacy, more closeness, and more connection.

Yeah, absolutely. So to get all the details on the connection challenge, just go to vmtherapy.com connection all right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we teach you how to get more comfortable talking in the bedroom.