Episode 134: Everything You’re Getting Wrong About Intercourse (And How To Get It Right)

There are certain positions or certain moments or for certain brief periods of time.

There's a time and a place.

Yeah, there's a time and a place for it. But I think overall, I would say that men are doing it far more often than women want. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Cozy Earth for continuing to support Pillow Talks. Give the gift of a good night's rest with cozy earth. Get 35% off site wide when you use code pillow talks@cozyearth.com and thanks to Green Chef, the number one meal kit for eating clean. For their Support, go to greenchef.com 60pillow and use code 60pillow to get 60% off plus 20% off your next two months. Today we are talking about intercourse because you're doing it wrong.

You're doing it wrong.

You're doing it wrong.

What does you're doing it wrong come from in the first place? I feel like you and I have been making that joke forever, probably as long as we've been together.

You're doing it wrong. And it's.

You are.

You are. D o I n I t R o n g wrong.

Yeah. Where did it from?

Where, where, where it from?

Where it from?

I have no clue. It's not really a joke. It's pretty dumb. But also, we're not shaming anybody here because we have done intercourse wrong. R o n g Many, many times.

But also, you're doing it wrong. If you're listening doing it wrong word.

We're all doing it wrong. Yeah. I think intercourse is the perfect example of something that we all feel like we're just supposed to be naturally good at. I mean, if you really think about it. Yeah. That word natural just comes up so strongly. I'm like, what else could be more natural than intercourse? It's supposed to be like pure animalistic. Like you just know what to do, right?

Or at the very least, maybe you weren't born just naturally being a champ in bed, but. But you kind of strive to get to a point in your sex life where you're like, okay, I've had a couple partners, or, like, okay, it's, you know, been X number of times with my partner now. And like, yeah, now I know what I'm doing. I'm good. Like, I'm good at this. I know how to have sex.

But the thing about intercourse is that it actually is logistically pretty difficult, especially if you want to be, like, a little bit more advanced with it. So things like, you know, like, what positions are best for what, and how do you, like, navigate in between positions? How do you actually move in specific positions? What do you do if you're on different timelines when it comes to orgasm? Or one of you can orgasm easily, but the other one can't. There are a lot of logistical challenges to it. So we turned to our Instagram community and we asked, what is your biggest frustration when it comes to intercourse? What gets in the way of you fully enjoying the experience? And we got back a lot of surprising and some not so surprising answers. So in this episode, we're gonna break down those most common frustrations and exact what to do to fix them. I just want to make a quick note that it's our goal and intention to make pillow talks as inclusive as possible. In this episode, we are going to be talking a lot about male and female dynamics, but we just want to be super clear that lots of people of all orientations and gender identities have intercourse and penis in vagina. Like, CIS male, female intercourse is not like the be all, end all of everything.

But first, we got a review of the week. This week's is the podcast I needed when I needed it. I've been listening to this podcast and following on Instagram for about a year now. Every week seems to touch on something going on in my own relationship. I've taken all the advice and applied it to transform the communication and sex in my relationship. We've never been so emotionally and physically intimate. Hell, yeah. That's a great review.

Thank you.

I mean, that's. That's like that. That's what we're here for. Just people feeling more emotionally and physically intimate like that.

That is the point of this podcast.

That just, you know, sums it all up. So we're doing it, babe. We are doing it.

We're doing it right.

We are doing it right.

Reviews do go such a long way in helping the podcast grow and reach new audiences. That's why we do this review of the week every single week. It's not just to make ourselves feel good, although it is very nice to read your reviews. But reviews help Spotify and Apple like display the podcast more prominently so new people can find it. If they see a bunch of good reviews on it, they're much more likely to listen to it. Like, nobody's gonna come across a two star podcast and be like, let me tune into this one.

I mean, that might be your thing. There's probably something to be said out there for finding like the worst rated podcasts, like the worst rated longest running podcast. And it's just like a cringe listen. Maybe, maybe.

But that would be like the one star ones, not like the three or two.

The two. Like there's a coup good things, but it's pretty bad.

So anyways, we do a giveaway every single week as our way of saying thank you for being a part of this community and helping us grow the podcast. So how it works is leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. If you go to the main Pillow talks page, scroll to the bottom, you'll see the review section there. And if you hear your review read in an episode, then you can reach out to us@infomtherapy.com and you will get to pick a prize. We give away our masterclasses, so you get to pick which one tickles your fancy. And that's our little way of saying thank you. All right, so let's jump right into it. And that actually is the first of our intercourse frustrations.

Wow, did you set this up this way?

I actually didn't because every week I say, let's get into it. But then I saw, I was like, oh yeah. Skipping right into it is one of our biggest frustrations. A lot of people said they feel like there's just this rush around intercourse. And this is particularly true in male female relationships after you've been together for a while. And I would say stereotypically, it's most often the man, like jumping right ahead. So a lot of women complain like there's no foreplay or there's 30 seconds of foreplay and it's very half hearted. And it's like obvious that it's just like, let me just get this out of the way so I can go for the good stuff type of feeling. And women reported to us that it leaves them with like a lot of different kinds of reactions. Like some women said it makes me feel like, like he doesn't really care about my pleasure, my experience, which we'll loop back around to later. Some women felt like, yeah, that just like, it just leaves me feeling rushed, like I can never catch up. I can't like, get present in the moment. Like, sink into my own body, enjoy the experience. I think most people just like, don't like to feel rushed. And some women even said, like, I feel like he pushes to get right to the good stuff because he's worried I'm going to change my mind. Like, oh, well, he's just gotta like, get it in as fast as I as he can. Cause otherwise if he starts like kissing me or he's touching me and then I'm like, actually, babe, you know, I'm not really in the mood or I'm not feeling it.

Yeah. God. Like, yeah. How dare you get her a little more excited because she might then be like, oh my God, I made a horrible mistake.

Yeah. So I mean, people said like, sometimes it can be fun to have a quickie where you're like, let's just get right down to it. Or like, we don't have a ton of time and it feels like this fun game to get right to it. But I think overall, most people really want it to last longer. Like the lead up to intercourse to last longer. Because by the time you get to intercourse, then it feels like it's so much more exciting. You've had this anticipation build up for it.

Well, I mean, one thing that just came to mind as you said quickie is like, to have a quickie, I think that there has to be a communication about, like, both partners have to agree. Yeah. Like we're doing a quickie. Like, it's not a quickie. If just one of you decides without saying anything. Oh, you know what? I'm going to show them.

I'm going fast, I'm going fast. What would that be called? Like a onesie?

I don't know. I mean that's like a, like, like a car chase on the freeway. But no, I do want to circle back to this because I want to share my perspective on this. Sort of like men skipping to it. I know that I have been guilty of this in the past, definitely in other relationships and definitely in our relationship early on it honestly, like, honestly, this was something that I feel like I didn't really break down fully until maybe three or four years ago. I felt responsible as a man. I felt responsible for the intercourse, for giving the intercourse. And I felt responsible for it because I'm the one with the erection. The intercourse cannot happen without the erection. Well, the side note, intercourse can happen without an erection. You can.

Oh, yes. Check out our Smash or Pass intercourse edition episode. I'll look that up while you keep talking.

I Mean, I was gonna say there's also. Toys can be utilized.

Yes.

But anyway, that's just a sidebar. But, you know, the feeling is like, I'm the man. I have the penis. I'm the one who has to get the erection. I am responsible for it. The intercourse begins and ends with me. And so because you feel responsible for it, you have this feeling of like, okay, like, am I gonna. When. When am I gonna get hard? Like, when's the erection coming? Oh, oh, it's starting. It's starting. It's here. All right, let's fucking go. Like, you know, like, I gotta use it before I lose it. And that, you know, maybe in the very beginning of my sexual experience, that wasn't such a thing. But once I had had the experience of losing an erection or having a little bit of a. A shameful or embarrassing moment where it's like, oh, oh, like, I can't get it up. Or like, it was up and now it's not up and I can't get it up again. It's like, you are really hyper focused on, like, I don't want to feel that again. I never want that to happen again. So it's like, all right, I'm hard. It's time to go. And in my mind, I justified that as like, I'm doing her a solid. I'm doing us a solid. I am making this happen. I'm doing my job. I never looked at it like, oh, maybe I'm actually taking away from the experience by rushing. And we'll talk. There's a, you know, a number of other ways that this kind of thought process can play into some other problematic dynamics in intercourse too. And we'll come back to that.

Yeah. So I think overall, most people just want to take more time in the lead up. They want to feel like it's more of an experience together. We actually polled women. We said, how much time do you want to spend on foreplay before intercourse? 58% of women said they want to spend five to 10 minutes, 31% said 11 to 20, and 6% said 21 to 30. So I found that really interesting because I think sometimes men hear the word foreplay, and it's sort of. I feel like you get a kind of eye roll experience. Like, oh, God, now we got to do that too. But 58% of women want five to 10 minutes. Like, we're not talking about huge amounts of time here.

Right.

Five to 10 minutes.

And also, I'm guessing that when women were responding to this, they weren't thinking, like, I want five to 10 minutes of like 100% of the focus on me. Like, they're talking about like giving and receiving. Like, kiss.

This is hold each other. This is something that is close off.

Yeah. Like, let's touch each other. Let's go down on each other. Like five to ten minutes of jointly enjoyable things. Stuff that feels good for both people.

So I think that's a great conversation for couples to have of like, what is our ideal lead up to sex? Like, how much time do we want to spend on it? What are our favorite things to with each other leading up to it. So that you are on the same page about like, what you guys are both looking for. What's going to make a good experience for you. Let's move into the second complaint, which is very, very much tied into the first one. The second frustration that we heard is not focusing enough on her pleasure. So we polled our community and 91% of women said that intercourse is not their favorite sexual activity.

Oh, so one more reason why rushing into it is actually biting you.

That number blew my mind. I mean, I think, you know, in male female relationships, we think of intercourse as the gold standard.

It's like the default thing, the home run.

That's the home run. It's like the main thing that we do. And yet 91% of women say that that's not their favorite sexual activity. That is a mind blowing number if you really take the time to think about it. Like, clearly we're doing it wrong and that's why we are making this episode in the first place.

I do want to, I do want to be really clear about this though, because I think that we, when we throw that stat around, that 91 saying intercourse isn't their favorite sexual activity, I think that a lot of men can hear that and feel doubtful or feel bummed or like, wait, well, like, what are you telling me? Like, we're just not supposed to have sex? And that's not what we're saying. We're not, we are not saying that you shouldn't have intercourse or that intercourse is a bad activity. What we are saying is that when intercourse is essentially the only activity that you do, that it is far more enjoyable for one of you, AKA the guy, than it is for the woman. And it is about bringing together a lot of enjoyable activities all together and all of that creating like a good experience, a great experience altogether.

Well, the main problem that comes up with intercourse is that it's not creating enough stimulation of the most sensitive part of our bodies. So for us women, the most sensitive part of our body is the clitoris. There are 8 to 9,000 nerve endings in the clitoris compared to 2 to 3,000 nerve endings in the penis.

Women really do.

It's way bigger.

Yeah, women really have it a lot better if you focus on the right part.

But when you have intercourse, you're getting stimulation in your vagina, and the vagina does not have anywhere near the amount of nerve endings as the clitoris. I've actually looked multiple times. I've tried to find a proper scientific tally of how many nerve endings are in the vagina. I cannot find one. That's how few there are.

Yeah. Well, I mean, think about it this way. If there were anywhere approaching the number of nerve endings that were in the penis and clitoris, like, God forbid the clitoris, think about how excruciating childbirth would be with that many nerve endings. Like, you want fewer nerve endings there to aid with that process, which is already a challenging and can be a very painful process.

So from a nerve ending standpoint, intercourse for a woman is the equivalent of playing with a man's balls. Like, it might feel good for him. Yeah, there are some nerve endings there. It could be fun, it could be intimate, it could be pleasurable. But for the vast majority of men, it's not gonna be anywhere near enough stimulation to lead to an orgasm. But we don't make men feel bad for this, right? It's not like your orgasm is so complicated. Like, why do you need to be touched on the penile stimulation? You need your penis. Like, why can't you have ball orgasms?

You're so extra.

Yeah, I know. So imagine if we had some alternate universe where intercourse was actually a man rubbing his balls on a woman's clitoris. So, like, she's getting stimulation of the most sensitive part of her body, she's gonna have an orgasm. He's getting stimulation of a part of his body that sure has some nerve endings, can feel good, can feel intimate, but, like, not anywhere near enough to lead to orgasm.

Yeah, he's probably like, oh, like, this damn penis is in the way of my, like, ball rubbing. Like, get this thing out of here.

So we really need to give the clitoris the same respect that we show to the penis. And I think this is the perfect illustration of what Xander was saying a minute ago of, like. Like, we're not saying, don't ever have intercourse. It's a terrible activity. All we're saying is you need to make sure that the clitoris is invited to the party as well. Like we wouldn't expect men to have sex with zero penile stimulation and have a great time and have orgasms. So we shouldn't expect the same from women.

Yeah. So you know, to the guys out there, think about it this way, you know, like the ball penis thing, it's like, yeah, with just your balls being fondled, you are most likely not going to have an orgasm. But that doesn't mean that no one should ever touch your balls. In fact, if you are getting a hand job or a blow job, you've probably have this experience with like, you know, a good amount of ball cupping at the same time. Like some ball stimulation along with that. That can really like increase the intensity of your orgasm, of that whole experience and like really put it over the top. So it's, it's just about bringing all these things together. It's not being like, okay, cool. Well like all I do is focus on the most sensitive part or like the activity that's best. Don't touch the rest of it.

Exactly. And we also have to mention the orgasm gap here as well. Like we've polled our audience and we found that 93% of men say they orgasm almost every single time they have sex. And only 29% of women say that they always orgasm. So that's a huge frickin gap and it's not fair and it needs to be closed and fixed. So there are a variety of things that we can do to make sure the overall experience is just as pleasurable for women. So going back to number one, we were talking about skipping right to it. Take more time on foreplay. And this is why we hate the word foreplay. Because it makes it seem like, oh, those are the things you do before they're lesser than, they're not as good as intercourse. But that's absolutely not true. So it's spending more time leading up to it, maybe even making her have an orgasm before you start intercourse. Or it can also be incorporating clitoral stimulation into intercourse with your hands, your partner's hands, a toy using certain positions that can make this a lot easier. But inviting the clitoris along to the party doesn't need to be that hard.

And I just want to kind of throw the man out there a bone. Like this epidemic of men not focusing on her pleasure. This isn't some nefarious thing where guys are like, oh, like, like it's all about me. I don't want to focus on her. If you kind of circle it back to the story I told a Little while ago about that. Feeling responsible for intercourse. Feeling responsible for the entire sexual interaction, like, starting and ending successfully. If you are so focused on your own experience, because you are focused on, like, okay, like, let's get it started. Okay. Like, am I. Am I getting hard? Okay, am I hard? All right. Like, now I'm ready to go. I better. I better do it before I leave. Lose it, you know? Okay, let's get started. Okay. You know, and then even during the intercourse, it could be like, oh, okay, don't come too fast. Okay. Or like, oh, oh, do I need to switch position to speed things up? Do I need to slow things down? Like, so many things can be happening where you're so in your head, you're so hyper focused on your own experience because you think that's what you're supposed to do to do a good job. Of course, you're not focusing on her experience. So the only way to really successfully focus on her experience while also enjoying yourself is dismantling that story in your head that, like, this is your job, that it's, like, a referendum on you as a man. And that's really hard to do. I'm not gonna lie. It took me a really long time. It took us talking about this over and over and over, and Vanessa, like, repeatedly telling me, like, yeah, I'm not expecting that of you. I've never expected that of you. Took a long time of me. Just start learning to trust. Like, okay, she. She really means that. Like, oh, I need a little help getting hard again. I can ask for help. Like, oh, I need to slow down. I can say something. We can do another activity. Like, you know, there's so many more.

I feel like this could be an entire podcast episode. Like, the pressure that men put on themselves when it comes to sex, and, like, how to get out of these patterns. So if this is something you want to hear us do a deep dive on, come over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Xander's with an X. And let us know if you want to hear an episode about that. Oh, and also the Smasher Pass episode that I mentioned earlier, that was episode 102.

Yeah, there's a really sneaky good tip.

That's a very funny episode.

It was the first time we ever tried this. We thought it was not going to work, and. Oh, baby, it works. It's pretty good.

All right, let's move on. Let's move on to the next one. The next frustration with intercourse was positions. People had so many frustrations about positions. They said we only do, like, one or two. We don't feel creative enough to come up with others. We can't figure out good positions that are comfortable for both partners. How do we get lined up? Like, how do we get our bodies to fit together? How do we transition between positions? And just general boredom with it. A lot of people are like, yeah, we have these two or three that we kind of cycle between, but it just goes. Gets really stale really quickly.

Man positions. Can't live with them, can't live without them.

So we actually did a more of a poll about this on Instagram. We asked, how many positions do you regularly do? So we said, like, at least once a month. 17% said just one. Literally just one. And we'll give you one guess as to what that position is. Doggy style, missionary. And 71% said just two to four positions. So the vast majority of people, 88. 88% of people are doing four positions or less per month, so.

So 12% of people are getting creative or, you know, five or more creative.

Yeah. When we pulled that, a bunch of people DMed and they're like, there are more positions than four. Like, what even are the options?

That's when you know you're onto something.

So. So positions are a funny thing because there are these, like, core positions that pretty much everybody knows. I think, like, missionary, woman on top, and doggy are like, the three most common. But also, we see a ton of ridiculous sex positions online that seem, like, so impractical, painful. Like, how do you even do penetration in this position? Actually, if you have never seen our series about bad sex positions, you have to go to our Instagram account. We have a highlight called Sex Positions where we act out the worst positions we've ever seen on the Internet. And I have a collection of ten terrible position books. It's so funny, but we've done so many of them where it's like, this is not possible. Like, you cannot do intercourse in this position.

So. So you can't really fault people for, you know, like, you know, if. If their experience of sex is 1, 2, 3 positions, and then all they see online are, like, these ridiculous ones. Like, I would come away from that being like, this position thing is bullshit. Like, it's just fake. Like, who does? Like, that's not real. Like, there's nothing here for me. I could totally see so many people, like, rightfully thinking, well, okay, this is just not worth my time or attention because all these other ones are dumb.

So if you want to explore more positions, but in a realistic way, because.

There are a lot. And there are a lot of realistic ones that you just might not know about.

Stay tuned for the rest of the episode because we're going to talk about something really fun at the end.

You know, another thing that, you know, positions got me thinking about as a guy. I feel like I'm. I'm, like, doing the, like, speaking for all men thing in this podcast a lot. But I think that another, you know, typical male experience, and I know this because I struggled with this for a long time, I felt this way for a very long time, is there's a lot of fear or worry about timing, like, coming too fast, and certain positions can kind of feel a little scary or out of control. I know that early on, for example, like.

Like, too intense.

Yeah, like. Like too intense. Or, like. Or, like, you know, like, I don't really have any agency or I didn't know how I had any agency, so to speak. Like, cowgirl, I think, is like, oh, like, you know, like, she's up there and she's riding it. And like, like, if, you know, if I get too excited, like, how, you know, it's. It's. It's awkward to be like, oh, stop, or, you know, whatever, you know, so it's like, I don't know how to do the intercourse or, like, deliver the goods that I'm supposed to be delivering if I get too excited or, you know, or even, like, if I don't know how to transition between these two positions. And I'm, like, not feeling, like, super confident in the strength of my erection. I'm like, God, if I, like, if I stop having any stimulation for, like, 10 seconds, I'm, like, worried about what's going to happen to it. And so, yeah, positions can just feel a bit scary in that way. And, like, okay, well, like, I know how to do that position, but in my experience, it's been, like, overly stimulating and, like, I'm gonna come way too fast if I do it. Or, like, oh, like doggy. Like, doggy. I think a lot of guys would be like, oh, like, doggy style. Like, it's just, like. It's, like, so intense and, like, I don't know any other way but to just pound it out and, like, come really fast. But it took me a long time to really start to learn and understand that, like, in every position that we do, there are ways to, quote, take a break while still giving your partner some stimulation. And this is all about just understanding the little subtle variations or shifts or whatever where you can kind of Slow down the stimulation for the penis owner while, you know, your other where your partner is still getting some stimulation so they can still stay on that trajectory that they are on. I think that that can be one of these big hang ups for guys, is like once you start kind of understanding that, you know, if you're with a woman that she's on this slow, steady trajectory, you can kind of feel like, oh, well, God, the only way then for me to please her is like, I have to also be doing this, like, you know, steady thrusting or whatever it is. But the reality is there are a lot of different ways that you can shift and move and adjust so that she can keep getting what she needs and you can get what you need or not get what you need so that you can last a little bit longer. And it's just understanding what those variations are. And we'll tell you a little more later about how you can really start to learn those and get confident in those. Because ultimately positions should just be fun. They shouldn't be a source of dread. And I definitely was one of those people that had this little bit of dread around positions where it was like, oh, like, well, have we done enough? Or have we done too many? Or like, oh, am I going to be able to do this one? Or is this one going to be too much for me? And instead of that worry, when you think about should you suggest another position or your partner suggests another position, like, what it should be is, it's just like, hell yeah, like, let's switch it up. Like, let's do it. It's fun.

Before we go any further, we want to take a minute to thank our sponsors because their support makes pillow talks possible. First up, we have one of our very favorite sponsors, Cozy Earth. They make luxurious linens and pajama type clothing that is so soft, so comfortable. We are absolutely obsessed with our sheets. We have a couple of different sets and they are just next level game changing. Like, make your experience of crawling into bed at the end of the night just so much better. We love working with Cozy Earth and they are offering you 35 off site wide when you use code pillow talks@cozyearth.com so like I said, we are absolutely obsessed with our sheets. They're made from ethically sourced viscose from bamboo. It's naturally breathable and temperature regulating. I also bought Cozy Earth pajamas for a bunch of my members this holiday season. Their pajamas were featured on Oprah's Favorite Things. They're made out of that same responsibly sourced viscose I cannot tell you how soft these things are. Give a cozy gift this holiday season. Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for Pillow Talks. Listeners today get 35% off site wide when you use the code pillow talks@cozyearth.com and let's tell you a little bit more about Green Chef. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating clean. Let Green Chef take the work out of eating clean this holiday season with Chef crafted nutritionist approved recipes featuring fresh ingredients with nothing artificial. Choose from recipes featuring lean proteins like turkey and sockeye salmon, barramundi, tilapia, scallops and shrimp. Certified organic whole fruits, vegetables and eggs and plenty of whole grain options. We have been eating with Green Chef almost all year this year and have been absolutely loving it. It just makes eating clean so, so simple and easy. There are so many different options for every different kind of diet or lifestyle. We are gluten free so we always get the gluten free meals and there are always so many to choose from. Everything includes step by step recipes. Most of their dinners are ready in 30 minutes or less. Over 35% of their meals can be made in 25 minutes or less. They even have 10 minute lunches. Grab and go breakfast ready to eat snacks. Like everything is just so simple and easy. And we are thrilled that they are offering you an incredible discount. Go to greenchef.com 60pillow and use code 60pillow to get 60% off plus 20% off your next two months. All right, next up, let's talk about not knowing how to move during intercourse. And this was the frustration that brought up the most stress, shame and embarrassment from people. People were just like, I feel humiliated but like, I just don't know what to do or how to move or like I move but it just doesn't feel like I'm doing it right. I'm not doing it right and it doesn't feel good. And this did come up for people of all genders, but particularly women mentioned, like, I just don't know what I'm doing and it's so embarrassing. So some of this comes from obviously, like, where have we learned how to move? Like, where did you ever get any sort of lessons on, like, this is what you do and in position you move in this way and in this one you move in this way. And also a lot of this comes from porn. Like just terrible examples that we've seen in porn. And I think the most classic thing that comes out of porn is jackhammering men. Just like thrusting away so hard. So Fast. It's just that it's the jackhammer. You're literally being jackhammered.

Yeah, but. But also, I think also, like, cowgirl is portrayed really poorly because it's. It's like this big bouncing thing. And the. I mean, the reality is, is that, like, porn needs to be filmed at certain angles that look good. And also, like, there is a camera, probably a somewhat large camera, and that is being placed, you know, close up or whatever, which is resulting in certain limitations of what you can actually portray. I think that's another important thing to think about. So, like, yeah, like, in. In reality, cowgirl is more of a grinding position. But, like, how are you gonna. Like, with a camera? Like, you're not gonna be able to really portray much of what's. It's not gonna look very exciting. Right. Like, there's not a lot of movement. You're not, like, seeing all the. You know, you're not seeing the genitals. Like, the. Both sets of genitals are totally covered up. Up. It's like, that wouldn't make for good tv. And then on the flip side, I think then there's also the other side of this, which is, like, what you see in movies and stuff of, like, the way sex is portrayed in movies, where obviously the characters are not actually having sex. Like, they're not actually inside of each other. And so you might see these sort of more like, comical depictions or just over the top of, like, a lot of movement, more movement than is actually possible if your body parts were inside of each other. So I think it's important to kind of consider those two things and be like, oh, yeah, just remind yourself both of these things. These are entertainment. They're not meant to depict reality.

Yeah. In reality, there is a lot less movement and I think much slower movement, too. Like, more of a. And it is different for every position. So we can't, like, in this episode, go through every single position and, like, tell you exactly all the tips. But I think it's not.

It's not like cpr, where it's just, like, seeing, like, staying alive and go at that beat.

No. Although a lot of men do stuff like that, like counting out their thrusts or, like, trying to time it.

Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. That's not a thing. It's not a real thing.

Yeah. So I think, you know, having a conversation with your partner about whether or not you like jackhammering, because there are certain positions or certain moments or for certain brief periods of time, there's a.

Time and a place.

Yeah, there's a time and a place for it. But I think overall I would say that men are doing it far more often than women want and far longer.

And probably just like really shortening their own experience too. Cause like honestly, who can not last, who can last very long when you're.

Just doing that for the jackhammer is a, it's a one way path to a very fast orgasm. And then with cowgirl, like you were mentioning, you don't need to bounce up and down. That's a porn thing. It's actually not likely to feel very good for you. Your quads are gonna be burning in seconds.

God.

Yeah. Your knees are gonna hurt real bad.

You also might hurt your, your partner with.

Yeah, with cowgirl it's much more of like a gentle rocking motion. So thinking about rocking your hips back and forth, like grinding against your partner.

Yeah, that's going to be a hell of a lot more enjoyable for, for the clitoris haver as well.

The grinding and I think in general just mixing up tempo, pace, depth, like the movement that you're doing. I think people very often just get locked into like this is my pace and this is my thrust and I'm doing it and that's it. But mixing things up can feel a lot better.

Oh, I mean the variation in tempo also is really going to help the men last longer too because I think that's when you are start kind of doing that consistent thing. It's like, yeah, you get on this just one way trajectory too. And it's like you need to give your brain and your body some variation.

This leads us right into our next frustration that got brought up by the men in our audience who talked about pillow princessing, otherwise known as starfishing. We've heard it called as a spread eagling before, but basically it's when the woman in a male, female relationship just lies there during sex and she's not really participating, she's not moving. Very often this happens in missionary where you're just like, you're kicking back on the pillow and you're just enjoying the ride.

Do it to me.

Yeah, letting your partner do all the work for you. So I will say there's a time and a place for this. Like it is nice to trade off during intercourse and like to have moments where you can just lay back and receive and enjoy yourself. So I'm not saying like every single moment you need to be active and participatory.

Yeah. I mean there can also be some sort of like kink or fantasy behind this, too?

Oh, yeah, sure.

It's like, you know, like, oh, like, you know, I want to just give it to you. Or, like, I want to just kind of receive without participating. But that is more of an advanced. Like, that's a more advanced thing that requires a lot of communication and understanding what it is that each partner is looking for, kind of what that scene looks like.

But it's in general, like, it's not fair that every single time you're just laying back and enjoying it and your partner is in charge of the entire event and responsible for the pleasure.

Yeah, well, I mean, because this can also feed into those. Those ideas that men can have. Oh, I. I really am responsible for this, if. If, you know, because, like, most men, you know, would go through their kind of teen puberty years and becoming sexually active years definitely thinking that they're responsible because it's all the messages they get from society, from tv, movies, porn, all that stuff. And then it can be even more confirmed if, like, you know, they're with a partner or partnership who kind of just lie there as well. I was like, oh, yeah, well, shit, I guess I, you know, I guess I really am responsible for this thing. Like, yeah. And I can see how it just starts to feel like, okay, well, like, if I don't do this, it's not going to get done.

There are a bunch of reasons why starfishing or pillow princessing can occur. A huge one is what we were just talking about earlier. Like, a lack of confidence in knowing what to do. Like, I don't know how to get on top. I don't know how to move. Like, so I'm too embarrassed. Like, I would rather just lie here. And also, another big reason is not enjoying yourself, which ties back to all the stuff we've talked about already about, like, not prioritizing her pleasure. If intercourse doesn't feel like a pleasurable experience for you, if you're not feeling connected to your partner or you feel like they're just rushing into it, then it's, you know, it's understandable that you're just kind of lying there like, okay, I guess I'm just like, here.

Not much here for me.

Yeah. But it's just at the end of the day, like, it's not a pleasant experience for either partner. And it's similar to the next frustration that we are talking about, which is silent sex. And we actually did an entire podcast episode about this recently because it is such a huge problem that is episode 129. Do you have silent Sex. So definitely check that one out. But we wanted to mention this here as well, because it really goes hand in hand with the pillow princessing. Like, a lot of people said, like. Like, it just feels like my partner's just there, but they're not participating in it with me. They're not, like, communicating with me at all. We're just like. You know, it just feels so fricking awkward. We're just both there, like, completely silent. No communication, no noises. Like, it's just not exciting. So check out that episode if you want to learn more about silent sex in particular. But let's move along to the next frustration, which is being on different pages about timing. So the first thing within this category that I started thinking about is our expectations about how long sex is supposed to last.

Night long. All night.

Oh, my God. You. You went for it with the key. Why did you start that high to.

Go down all night long? I don't know my voice. I don't feel confident. It sounds way, but you feel all night long.

You feel more confident with the same super high falsetto.

No, what it is is that I can play it off like a joke. It's kind of like bad initiation where I'm like, you know, hey, it's falsetto. It's kind of. It's kind of. It's kind of silly. So if I don't hit it, it's go. Oh, yeah, I tried.

Wow, that was really something.

All night long. All night.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, there are literal songs that talk about going all night long. Like, also that color me bad song.

Like, I can go all night long.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like something people. Men brag about. Women don't brag about.

No. I've never once. Never once heard. Seen a woman bragging, oh, yeah, I can do it all night, baby, I'm dead.

I'm dead. Imagining a woman bragging about that. Absolutely not. But, yeah, timing, it's something that really trips us up. So. So we found that men feel like sex is supposed to last longer, whereas women want sex to be shorter. And I think that makes a lot of sense, like, with men and their pressure and expectation around, like, you know, I'm in control of this. I'm in charge of this. I'm responsible for this. I'm worried about my orgasm, my erection. Like, you feel like the longer, the better.

Yeah. I mean, also, we tend to. When we struggle with evaluating how good something is or something feels like a bit of a gray area, we tend to lean into the quantitative and go, okay, what can I quantify? Number of minutes? Number of hours? Hell, yeah, I can quantify that. Like, I know what time we started. I know what time we ended. Oh, two hours. Oh, that must have been really good sex. Rather than asking the tough. You know, I put tough in quotes. Like, asking the tough questions of, like, how was that? How did that feel? Like, how do we feel afterwards? Like, was that fun? Was that exciting? But who cares about how long it was? Like, what we're after is the feeling, the experience together.

Also, I think that when men are so focused on lasting longer, it turns it into an unenjoyable experience for us women. And we've experienced this in our own relationships.

Oh. It also turns it into a, you know, unpleasant. Unpleasant experience for the guy. Like, all these stereotypes or not stereotypes, but, like, you know, kind of like.

Thinking about tropes of, like.

Oh, like. Like thinking about. Like, think about baseball. Think about your grandma or, you know.

Starving kids in Africa. Yeah. It's like, think of the most unpleasant things.

Yeah. Like, who. Who wants to be having sex like that?

I know.

Seriously, I've. I've been there. I've been there. I've tried to think of ridiculous things to last longer, and then it's like you're just disconnecting yourself from the experience.

Yeah. So it's unpleasant for the guy, and it's also very unpleasant for us women. Like, there have been plenty of times where I could tell that you were so in your head about, like, I'm just trying to last longer. Just trying to last longer. And I'm like, well, now I feel like you're not here with me. Like, you're not having sex with me. You're just, like, so focused. Yeah. Trying to tick a box. So focused on making it last longer. But I'm like, I'm not enjoying it. I don't want it to last longer. Right. So there's so many tricky things to navigate around, timing. But I think a great, great starting point is couples asking each other, like, what's your ideal length of time for sex? And to think about it in terms of, like, all the stuff leading up to intercourse and intercourse itself. And I would also break this down into two categories. Like, if it's a random Tuesday night and we're both tired, but we want to have sex, what's the, like, ideal length for it? And let's say it's like, a weekend or the kids are away or whatever, and like, we have more time. Like, what's ideal for you in that circumstance? But I think A lot of couples will be surprised by what their answers are. I think there are gonna be a lot of men out there being like, wait, you only want it to last that long? Like, I had no idea we've pulled this before. And I believe the average answer was, like, around seven to 10 minutes.

Yeah. But I think, you know, that is also in combination with some of the, you know, bumping up the time on foreplay at the beginning or throughout, you know, whichever it is. Because, again, foreplay doesn't always have to be before. But, yeah, it's like, it's not like, oh, yeah, let's minimize the getting excited and maximize the amount of time doing intercourse. It's like, let's spread these activities out.

Yeah. When we talk about timing, there's also pressure to orgasm simultaneously, because, let's face it, that is the only way we ever see sex happening on tv, movies, porn. Like, they always orgasm in the exact same moment every single time. Then they make it seem so easy, so natural, so effortless. Like, that's just how it happens. In reality, though, simultaneous orgasm is quite rare and very difficult to pull off. Like, each partner has different timelines that they tend to last, different things that they need to get them over that little hump. And so if you're aiming for orgasm, like, first of all, it's going to be effortless, and there's going to need to be a lot of communication involved. So no silent sex leading up to a simultaneous orgasm. And you're also probably going to be put in the situation where one partner is trying to slow themselves down. Think of Aunt Rhonda and the starving kids, and the other partner is trying to hurry themselves up and feeling like, oh, I'm taking too long, and why am I not getting there? So it just can create, like, a really unpleasant situation for both partners.

And then in male, female relationships, I think there can also be sometimes some pressure for multiple orgasms for the woman to have multiple orgasms. I think that men can get really intrigued by or fixated by the reality that many women can have multiple orgasms. Kind of like men love boobs because they don't really have them. Men typically can't have multiple orgasms without waiting out that refractory period, whereas many women can. And so it's this like, oh, well, God, if one is good, two must be better, and three must be better than that. Right.

And it's like another logistical thing like you were talking about earlier. Like, it's a quantifiable, like, oh, three orgasms. That must be Better than one orgasm, right?

Yeah. And early in our relationship, I definitely was guilty of this. Like, you know, there were, you know, a couple, you know, probably a couple times early on where you did have multiple orgasms, and I was like, ooh, like, I want to do that every time. Like, that's so incredible, you know? You know, it sort of felt like a way also where I could sort of. I felt like I could give back for those times where maybe I finished too quickly or, like, you didn't come, or I was like, oh, yeah, well, I'm gonna make you come, like, three times tonight, baby. But I didn't really understand what that experience was like for you. Like, I didn't know. Like, I didn't truly know. Like, oh, is that actually. Are you actually having a better experience when you have two or three orgasms? Or is this just, like, something for my ego?

Because the reality for me is that while I am capable of having multiple orgasms, I actually prefer just having one when I have multiple ones. It's like each subsequent one just doesn't feel anywhere near as good as the first one. And sometimes I can get, like, a little hypersensitive. So I just like a one great, wonderful, big orgasm going out with a bang. Yeah. I don't. I don't like to aim for multiple. So that was a great conversation for us to have to clarify that with each other.

Yeah. Because I. I could imagine that, yeah, you have, like, one really good one, and then you have a kind of, like, mediocre or mild one, and then you're. You're left, you know, kind of thinking more about, like, how it ended rather, you know, rather than, like, that big one that you had earlier, or I think in your case, when you knew that I was pushing you to, you know, where I would. Encouraging you to have multiple orgasms. You might have tried to have that first orgasm faster than you normally would, which might have resulted in it being as. Not being as strong as it could have been if you had just in your head, been like, yeah, I'm going for, like, the one big one.

Yeah. It started to feel performative, for sure. Like, it was something that I was having to, like, do for you to make you feel like you had done a good job and gotten your little gold star.

Yeah. So once we had that conversation and I understood that experience a lot, but I was like, oh, I. I can understand that. Like, and then it was. And then it. It almost made things a lot easier for me. I was like, oh, okay. Well, yeah, I don't want to push her to do something that she doesn't want to do. And, you know, and I can trust that she's saying that when she has one, like, one really big one, like, that's great, like, she's more satisfied. She feels better about it. I was, like, took the pressure off of me to be. Because it's also. So. It's hard to not come when you see your partner having this massive orgasm. You're like, no, like, I'm gonna ride this out. So it just made things a lot more simple for us, I think, once we had that conversation. And I think the same thing can be true when you talk about simultaneous orgasm. Like, if you stop making that the primary goal, you might find that you actually start enjoying things better. And, like, maybe you even actually start having more, you know, closer to simultaneous orgasms once you. You stop focusing on it.

The other interesting thing about orgasm is, like, it can actually be better to have your orgasms separate, because then you get to enjoy each side of the experience more. Like, you get to just focus on your own orgasm and really soak that up and enjoy it. And then you get to focus on, like, watching your partner orgasm, which is so fun and sexy.

Yeah. And I know. I know for me, like, it. It can definitely be, you know, like, if you have already had an orgasm, then, like, I am in sole control of, like, the angle and the tempo and everything. And often, you know, like, that could result in me having an even stronger orgasm because I'm just like, all right. Yeah, like, let's do this. Rather than kind of being like, oh, yeah, I'm close. Oh, it seems like she's close. Okay, like, let's try to do this at the same time. Like, okay, like, hold off. Or, like, no, speed up. Or like, oh, like, I'm, like, about to come, but, like, maybe this is gonna get too much for me, so I should, like, slow her down. But, like, she's trying to come too, so I shouldn't slow her down. Like, you know, then it's just, like, so many things are happening at once, and then you're not enjoying the orgasm as much as you could.

And the final thing that we need to mention about orgasm is that you don't have to have the orgasm from intercourse. Like, another reason why we hate that word foreplay is because it implies, like, you do these things before, then you move on to intercourse, and, like. Like, you end with intercourse.

Yeah. And if you don't have that orgasm, then it's just. It's over. Shit out of luck.

Yeah. And it was, like, a bad experience. So it's like, you know, it actually, you are so much more likely to have orgasms if you're more flexible about the activities that you're doing. And, like, there is no rule that once you have intercourse, you can't then do oral or use your hands on each other or play with a toy with each other or masturbate together. So it doesn't have to be that you're only having the orgasms for intercourse. And again, like, going back to that whole understanding that intercourse isn't the most pleasurable activity for most women, I actually forgot to mention when we were talking about that only 10 to 15% of women can orgasm from intercourse alone. And Even of that 10 to 15%, there's often some sneaky little clitoral action that's actually going on. So all that to say, don't put pressure on yourselves or each other, that you have to have orgasms from the intercourse. And let's bring it on home with our final intercourse frustration, which is skipping aftercare. So a lot of people mentioned very similar to rushing into the intercourse. A lot of couples rush out of it. And there's this feeling that, like, once your partner has had the orgasm, especially for women, it's like, yeah, once he's come, then it's over with. And a lot of people mentioned, yeah, that feeling. Like, there's this abrupt ending to it. My partner jumps up and, you know, starts cleaning themselves up, or they roll over and grab their phone. It's just this feeling of, like, we're done. And a lot of people said, like, I want to be able to linger in that moment with my partner more. So we think aftercare is one of the most underrated parts of being intimate with each other. And what we mean by aftercare is, like, just spending a little bit of time with each other afterwards, continuing that connection. And this can actually be a great opportunity for couples to create some sort of ritual together around, like, how do we wrap up sex? Do we cuddle for a little bit? Do we talk about our favorite parts of what we just did with each other? Do we make out for a little bit? Do we grab some, you know, washcloths or some tissues and, like, clean each other up? But basically, like, it's just another great conversation to have with your partner of, like. Like, what can we do after we've finished having intercourse to maintain that feeling of connection.

Yeah. And there's no one way and there's no, like, right or wrong way to do This, I think a lot of people get, get kind of hung up on aftercare where it's like, oh, well, but like, I have to jump up right afterwards and clean off, clean up. Or I have to jump up and go to the bathroom and that's fine. Like, it's still aftercare if you come right back to bed and cuddle. Like, don't you know this isn't like this cut and dry. Like, the only way to do aftercare is like, you have to, you know, stay in bed, not clean up and cuddle for five minutes. Like, you can do it however you want. But yeah, if you never talk about it, then, like, then you know, you don't really have a plan for it. You don't know, like, what each person would like, what it's like for them. And you're just missing an opportunity to be like, like, hey, for me, it's really important that I get up and wipe up, go pee, but then I can come right back to bed and we can cuddle.

All right, so those are all the most common intercourse frustrations.

The ways we've all been doing it wrong. We have certainly been guilty of probably every single one of those.

Yeah. At one time or another, we have for sure done every single one of those. So if you're interested in diving even deeper into the ways to get it right. Diving deeper. Of course I said it that way.

We must go deeper, babe, if you.

Want to go deeper. We wanted to share something really fun and exciting with you. It is our guide, Next Level Intercourse. So just to give you a tiny bit of backstory about this guide, we originally decided to create it when we did the poll where we found that 91% of women said that intercourse was not their favorite activity. We were like, that was a while ago.

Yeah, we gotta do something. We gotta help.

Holy crap. We need to fix this. And yeah, like we said, we've had our own issues with intercourse and really had to spend time and effort figuring out how to make it more enjoyable and equally enjoyable for both of us. So that led us to creating Next Level Intercourse. It is our most extensive digital guide. It has over 200 pages of in depth techniques to help you and your partner have the most pleasure and connection possible. Like, like the name is there for a reason. Next Level Intercourse. We can all have intercourse. We can put a penis in a vagina. But how do we have Next Level Intercourse? We will show you how. So the guide has 42 beautifully illustrated positions.

Yeah, that's like the backbone of the guide is all of these positions, but then not just the positions, but, like, how to get into that position, how to get out of the position. Those variations that I was talking about, just the little subtle moves, movements that you can make, the weight shifts, the, you know, the little changes that can turn one position into really, like, you know, three, four, five different things that are going to feel different for you, where, you know, maybe you can take a little bit of a load off or you can speed things up or whatever.

And we tested all 42 of these positions.

It was hard work, but someone had to do it.

We had to do it. Yeah. We were like, we don't want to just make it. You know, we could make a guide that's like a hundred wild and crazy sex positions that were, like, unrealistic, and you can't actually do penetration in that way.

Yeah. AKA all the ones that you randomly see online. I guarantee you that people who put that out did not try it because it doesn't work.

Yeah. So these are 42 realistic ones. And like Xander was saying, we really break it down for you, like, step by step, instructions for how to get into each position, how to move in that position, what each partner can do, ways to. To elevate that position, little tweaks to make on it, and even ways to transition in between positions. So one of my favorite parts of the guide is we have an adventures section where we put together special combinations of positions with different vibes to them.

So there's like, positions that flow really well together because I think people get so hung up on that of like, oh, well, it's like, awkward to move, you know, oh, like cowgirl, the doggy. Like, everyone has to get up, up and move and blah, blah, blah. And so it's like we kind of curated these journeys where it's like, you know, ones where it's. It's pretty easy to get from one to the other, and you can kind of, you know, move, move all around and try a whole bunch of things.

And we've even broken those positions down into different categories, too. So there are positions for various penis sizes. There are positions that work really well for anal intercourse, which is not something that we talked about in a ton of detail in this specific episode, but lots of tips about that. Positions that work great for pregnancy or for larger bodies. So we have all different sorts of fun categories and really specific ways to make those positions work for your unique bodies as well. So, like Xander was saying, the positions are really the heart of that guide. But the other major part of it, which I am very excited about is that we really drill into how to make intercourse more pleasurable for her because 91% again, like that's fucked up. That's not fair. That stat about like the huge orgasm gap. It's not fair. We really need to change the way that we have intercourse because we've been programmed to have intercourse in a way that prioritizes male pleasure almost exclusively. We wanted to balance things out and make sure we women get to have the same kind of experience. So in a very like, like shame free, non judgmental, like not making anybody feel bad type of way, like we really break down how female pleasure and orgasm really work, how to close that orgasm gap, how to have intercourse in a way that satisfies both partners. So this is just really again it's like just that next level information that everybody needs to have.

And when we were putting together this guide, we also asked our community like what could your partner do to make intercourse the best that you've ever had? And you know, Vanessa and I, we have a lot of tips and tricks around that. But the answers that we got from you all were so fascinating and it was filled with so many good tricks and techniques and secrets that you all wished your partner knew. So we collated those all into a section of the course. I love that part where we give so many crowdsource.

They're really fun.

It's just the best of the best. And, and the other thing about all these tips is these aren't like super complex trick like oh yeah, well, so when they're, when they're doing this position, I reach around their back and I find this one little spot and I like scratch here and I say that.

I don't know, I mean that sounds doable. I wish there was a secret spot on my back.

Well, but like, like complicated things of like. Oh yeah. Well, when you're, when you're in the middle of this position, remember to reach and grab this blah. You know, it's the most of these tips are super, super doable. Really simple, straightforward things. And that's just like ultimately what we are all about is like what are the most simple, straightforward things that we can do that are going to make the biggest difference? And so we're just so excited that we got to gather all these from our community and just give them to you.

So if you want to check out next level intercourse for yourself, we will put the link to it in the show notes for this episode. And you can also just go straight to vmtherapy.com/, next level.

Well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week for a very special holiday edition of Am I the Asshole? We are so excited to do round two of Am I the Asshole? Can't wait for it.