Episode 135: Am I The Asshole? The Holiday Edition

Wait, I have to confess something, though.

Yeah, you don't know what the alternative is.

No, I literally this morning bought him a gift.

Oh, was it the thing I found last night where I was like, oh, your brother would love this? Yes.

It was just too perfect to not give it to him.

Well, you know what?

Oh my God. I'm the asshole.

Well, you know what, babe?

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Storyworth for supporting Pillow Talks. Storyworth is a meaningful gift you and your family can treasure forever. And you can get started right away. Go to storyworth.compillow to get $10 off your first purchase. We are back with another episode of Am I the Asshole? This time the holiday edition. So we did an Am I the Asshole? Episode back in episode 125 and it was just an instant hit. People told us like they loved the episode. It was so entertaining to listen to, a great conversation starter with their partner. You guys just begged us to bring it back. And we thought, you know what, this time of the year is perfect for it. Because around the holidays there are so many instances of tricky situations that leave us wondering, am I the asshole in this situation or is the other person.

Now, let's be real, it wasn't that hard to convince us to do do it again. Cause we had a great time recording that one. It was one of our favorite one to record. I just, I love doing episodes where we get to. We get to respond to your questions and especially in these where it's a bit more detailed. Like when we do ask us anything on Instagram, you know, we're at best looking at a couple sentences. So I just love these types of episodes. I'm glad you guys love them too because we can always do more of these. And I think there's no shortage of am I the asshole? Questions out there.

Oh no. We got so many submissions, it was really difficult to pick the ones that we picked. So we're really excited to get back into it. And of course we have to give credit here where credit is due. Am I The asshole started on Reddit. It's a super popular Reddit thread where people ask the same question. So not our idea originally, but these are our opinions. Also, on a personal note, I just have to say, we are home for the holidays.

We are.

If you've been following our saga, we're.

Home for this episode too.

If you've been following our saga on Instagram, we had to move out of our house for about five weeks because we're doing some renovation work. And so this is our first time being back in our house and recording. And we also decided to switch up the locations we're recording in our bedroom because we thought, like, you know, pillow talks, we got to get in bed, cuddle up with some pillows, get comfortable, get cozy, have some talks.

Yeah, I mean, it's so much for furnishing our office as a bit of a podcast studio. But, you know, this was. This is one of those, you know, funny things. You know, who knows what is coming around the corner of life? You make all these plans, you set things up, and, you know, we had this nice setup going and in our office with these super comfy chairs and got that all dialed in, we started recording some video of us doing that. And then we move out of the house and we go into this rental and there's not a good space to record the podcast, really. Like, not like good couch or chair space. And so we were like, ah, let's just try it from bed. And turns out it's pretty fun to record a podcast in bed. Vanessa, it turns out a lot more flexible than I am. It's a lot easier for her to sit in this position. If you are wondering what position we're in, come over to Instagram and doggy style. No.

What if you recorded a whole podcast episode in doggy style?

I mean, we've done episodes about sex positions and how can we never thought to actually be in the sex positions while recording. We have to get some handheld mics.

You know, I mean, we have these stands that are pretty flexible. We can, you know, put them where we need them to go.

We also don't have to have the mic connected to the stand. We can just hold. You know, it's a bit awkward because it's a podcast mic, but you can still hold on. I feel like we have recorded one or two episodes like that when we forgot our stand somewhere. But anyway, that's all to say that it turns out it's fun to record it in bed, even though I have to have a pillow under my butt. So that My legs don't fall asleep and I like it. So we might keep doing this.

Before we get into the review of the week though, we have a quick ask of you, holiday.

You ruined my transition. I had such a good one.

Little behind the scenes info. Xander did not transition. He just stopped talking and stared at me blankly. And I was like, babe, you're up with the.

Well, you did. You did have to blow your nose. So it was impeccable timing and I was totally ready with the transition. Okay, except I have forgotten what it was because I forgot what the last thing I said is before I gave you the Kleenex.

So excellent.

No, go, go on, go on. We'll see if I come up with something in the moment.

Okay, so our holiday ask of you is to please support the podcast. We really rely on you guys to help the podcast grow. This is something I did not understand before I had a podcast of my. But there really is no way for a podcast to grow without community support. So if you enjoy the podcast, if we make you laugh, can you at least do the easiest thing, which is just to follow us on Spotify, Apple, podcasts, wherever it is that you listen, just hit that little follow button. That's all you need to do. And it would be a big help. And if you want to go above and beyond, go the extra mile, then you could really help us by writing a review.

And speaking of reviews, let's read you one. Let's read you a review by someone who has gone the extra mile. Thank you. I recently came across this podcast after Vanessa and Xander were guests on Fake Doctors Real Friends, hosted by Zach Braff and Donald Faison.

A lot of people found us from that episode. That's awesome.

That was a great, great episode. Love Zach and Donald. That was super fun. I wanted to thank both Vanessa and Xander for allowing me to feel validated in the grief I've experienced in my choice to be fulfilled child free. Yes, it's my choice, but that doesn't mean it was easy. I found myself crying while listening to them describing their own grief about the topic, and it felt so validating. I always felt that I shouldn't be allowed to have grief on this because it's my choice. So thank you for normalizing that. It's not always as simple as you either want children or you don't. That podcast episode resonated with me so much that I binged the rest of the episodes in three weeks. Job well done.

My God, that's so many episodes in three weeks.

And for Xander, they did a string of emojis, a callback to, you know, the olden days when you used to have to try to stump me. But in basically in emojis, it looks like it's saying no babies cry, love, happy, thumbs up, going, feeling all the feels about being child free.

So that, that is episode 37. If you've never listened to it, the truth about why we're child free. By far and away our most popular episode. And man, it feels really freaking good to hear reviews like this and know that the podcast is having that big of an impact on you guys. So thank you so much for taking the time to leave these reviews. And we do this giveaway every single week as our way of saying thank you. So if you leave us a review, you are entered automatically every week going forward. And if you hear your review read in an episode, email us@infoemtherapy.com and you will get to pick one of our masterclasses to get as a free gift. All right, let's get to it. So we have a ton of holiday related stories that we're going to share. Like we did last time. I went through with one of our team members and picked the stories. Xander has not read the stories and we have not talked about them. So you'll get some hot takes about whether we think the person writing in is the asshole or the other people in the story are the asshole.

Someday we might have to switch this up and let you be the hot taker.

Oh, go for it.

Yeah, here comes the hot taker. No, I went there.

Oh that's. That's such a dated reference babe.

Such a good song though.

Your one.

Such a good song.

What song is it? For those people who are not 40.

And older, here comes the Hot Step Bar. That's all I know.

Do you know who sang that song? One Hit Wonder. No, I don't know any Kamozi.

Definitely didn't know that.

Oh yeah.

I was like, oh it'll. It'll ring a bell once I hear it. Nope, nope.

Okay, here's our first story. It was the first Christmas with my in laws after getting married. They wanted to do a gift exchange. My husband and I had already decided we didn't have the money to do gifts that year. So I told my mother in law on a group chat with my husband that we would not be joining the gift exchange and explained why we weren't. She went behind my back and messaged just my husband to ask if he wanted to do the gift exchange. She offered to give him money so that we could afford to buy gifts. My husband said, no, thank you, and we still went to Christmas with them. I'm still annoyed to this day about it. Mostly that she didn't listen to what I said and had to go message my husband. And also that she didn't respect our boundaries around money and wanted to give us money instead. Am I the asshole? I wanted to pick this one to go first because this one feels very tricky to me. But what's your hot take? Who's the asshole here? And you have to just give a hot take.

I guess the person writing in is the.

I agree with you. I'll tell you. I agree with you. It's a tough one.

I like, if anything I would say kind of like, no one is the asshole here. What I don't know is the person writing in, is this affecting her relationship, like with her husband's family now? Like, if, if this is like, she's like years later, if she's like, I like, I hate my mother in law, screw them. I don't want to hang out with them because I'm holding this thing over them or like I'm holding on to this. I'm still resenting her for this. Then, yeah, I would say that you are the asshole. Because look, the way that I read this is your mother in law. Yes. You could look at it as she went behind her back. You could also look at it as she went and talked to her son who is, you know, that's a relationship that you don't have. Like, they're different relationships. You are husband and wife. She is mother and son. She's allowed to have a relationship with her son. She's allowed to talk to her son. And she suggested an option. It sounds like your husband did a, like, held the boundary really well and just said no. I don't know what else he said to her. But it, you know, I could have. When I first started reading this question, I was like, oh, God, like, the mom goes and talks to the son and the son goes, oh, well, actually we really do. But I don't know, it's like, it's just my wife.

Oh, yeah, that's a classic. Like, you cannot throw your partner under the bus.

Yeah.

In those kinds of situations.

Like, I was worried it was going there, but then it was like, oh, like, looks like the husband does everything right, says, no, no, thank you. They still do it. And, and clearly the mom respected that boundary. There's no other story here of, oh, she gave us gifts anyway, or she like gave us gifts to Give, you know, like, yeah, so it sounds like, yeah, it's annoying. Sure. It's annoying that she didn't listen to you the first time, but I don't know how many times have you offered something to someone after they said no? I feel like with friends or something, it's like, oh, like, are you sure you don't want to come out tonight? Like, I'll pay for you. It's fine. You know, like, if you can tell me that you have never said, are you sure about something? Or like, brought something back up, then, okay, cool. That's. That's who you are. You never want to. You want to say something once and you want it to be listened to and respected.

But, yeah, I'm with you on this one. It's tricky. And of course, there could be a totally different vibe to this that, like, the mother in law was being very schemy or manipulative or whatever, but, like.

She would have written that, because I can. I know all the ways that this could have gone horribly wrong. And why would you not write those things down?

The way that I read it, Yeah. I look at it as the mother in law, like, trying to be really generous. I totally agree with you that they're, you know, we often ask, like, are you sure? Like, could I change your mind? And I think especially around the holidays where people are trying to be generous and giving and, you know, we have all this, like, meaning and tradition wrapped up in gift giving and, you know, that, like, the mother in law was sad of, like, oh, man, like, they don't have the money to participate this year. Like, I want to help them out. Like, I can help them with the money. And especially it being like their first Christmas where maybe the mother in law was like, you know, yeah, we're still getting to know each other and this is maybe our first holiday together. And like, you know, I don't want to pressure my new daughter in law, but I can go talk to my son directly because we have a closer relationship. We can, you know, communicate more directly, whatever it is. So I don't think of the. I don't see this as the mother in law, like, going behind the back or not listening to boundaries. I just see it as her trying to find an alternate solution. And I really think that it was coming from a place of generosity, not a, like, oh, you fools who can't afford the holiday extreme. You know, it's like, yeah, she's like, yeah, I get that you guys can't afford it this year. Let me help you out. I can help you afford it.

Yeah, I mean, I guess one way to think about it as well is like, what if it had gone slightly differently? Instead of you sending the message on the group chat, what if your husband had been the one to send it? So, you know, the son says, you know what, mom? We're not going to do gifts this year. And then he comes and then he tells you like two weeks later. Oh, you know what, My mom called me yesterday and like, asked if I was sure about that and like, offered to, you know, to, like, give us some money to. To so that we could do some gifts. Like, would you be like, oh, my God, what a horrible person. I can't believe she circled back with you about that. I can't believe she, you know, she didn't respect your boundary.

Also, I take issue with this person saying she didn't respect our boundaries around money.

Yeah, I was just thinking that as.

Yeah, it's like, I think people are talking a lot more about boundaries these days, which is great. Boundaries are extremely important. But as a therapist, I'm seeing a lot of misunderstandings about, you know, boundaries and how we communicate them. So the person said, we don't have money to do gifts this year.

Oh, each time I read this, I'm seeing new things in it.

Yeah.

You didn't say, we aren't doing gifts. You said, we don't have the money to do gifts. And so the mom.

That's a good point.

The mom literally offers to solve your problem for you.

So, okay, so, but this person just said, like, you know, we don't have money to do gifts this year. Then the mother in law offers the money. Then they say, no, you know, we have a boundary around we don't want to take money. The mother in law respected that. I think what they're taking issue with is they're saying the mother in law disrespected our boundary by offering the money. But you didn't state that boundary to begin with.

I don't think anyone even stated a boundary around. We have a boundary around not taking money. It's just that the husband just said, no, thank you.

Exactly. So, like, you can't get upset with somebody for not respecting your boundaries when you haven't clearly articulated and shared those boundaries.

Yeah, and I mean, in sharing a boundary, you kind of have to say, like, you know, we have decided we aren't going to do gifts this year. I understand that people might have different feelings about that. This is a firm choice and like, I would like you to respect that. Choice and please don't, you know, like, please don't come back to us, you know, with, I don't know, different ideas or whatever. Yeah. In order to set a boundary, you have to either kind of clearly use the word boundary or you have to say what exactly it is very clear clearly what it is that you don't want someone to do. Number two. I have a six week old baby and we went to my in laws for Thanksgiving. Turns out my 3 year old niece was recovering from a stomach virus and nobody told us she was feeling better. So we didn't know at the time. But we found out later she was literally throwing up hours before dinner. My in laws also threw a fit about being asked to wash their hands before holding my baby. Meanwhile, little to my knowledge, they were helping to take care of my sick niece hours beforehand. They the next day we found out about the stomach bug because almost everyone at Thanksgiving dinner got sick. Luckily we didn't. I told my husband's family, if they aren't going to tell us when someone is sick, we won't come around anymore. Am I the asshole?

You are not the asshole. Everybody else in your family is the asshole. And this one gets it grinds my gears, right?

Yeah, I think so.

There's also some sort of saying about a gullet. Like gets my gullet.

Oh God, right?

Isn't there something about a gullet that.

Doesn'T sound right to me?

All right, this one grinds my gears. Like especially at this time of the.

Year from like two months of being sick.

As somebody who is still sick and who has been sick for like two months, you gotta tell people about your germs. It is not fair to expose people to germs and not tell them ahead of time. Like, this is, this is ridiculous. This is such a clear cut one to me. That's a very, very normal, understandable, healthy boundary to set. Like, hey, please tell us if people are sick. Because if you're not telling people, like you're taking away their agency and their choice. Like some people might say, hey, I was just sick, I'm not worried about it. Or like, okay, you guys have been sick for like a week. You're probably not contagious anymore. That's fine, I'll come anyways. Like some people might still decide to hang out and spend time together, but like, you have to give people that ch and they have to know all the information ahead of time to be able to make an informed decision. And especially with brand new little babies, six weeks old, like you have to Be so careful with babies. They don't have their like, full immune system. So this one's a very clear, like, no, your family's the asshole. And I think it's totally fine to say, yeah, if this continues to happen, like, we're not going to come visit you.

Yeah, I momentarily Forgot about the 6 week old baby detail and setting the baby aside. If it's like just you two. I guess I was thinking initially that maybe it's a bit intense to, to just be like, okay, you didn't tell us about this. And then you. And then you sort of make a threat. I'm not going to come. If you don't tell us when someone is sick, I won't come anymore. My thought was like, well, yeah, I get that you're upset. And I mean, well, God, I mean, everyone else got sick but you. At least you didn't get sick.

I know, it's karma.

I know. But, you know, my thought was, well, maybe, maybe this could be a request before the threat.

Oh, that's a really good point. Yeah.

You know, hey, next time, like, could you please not do this again? I would. If someone is sick, I would like to know. You don't need to include the threat. I won't come around anymore until they have actually violated, like, it's sort of like boundaries. Like, if you haven't set the boundary, you can't say, hey, that was a boundary and you broke it and now I'm never going to talk to you again. If you didn't know about it in this case, it could be like, all right, guys, you know what? That sucked. Everyone got sick. You know, I would have really appreciated if you had told me. Would you please tell us next time before we come? And then if that happens again, then you say, I'm not sure what's going on here. You know, like, I know we clearly requested this. It's not, you know, safe for us or for our baby or whatever. And like, you know, like, you know, we won't be able to come around as much because you're not taking this seriously for us.

You're totally right. I think I got so annoyed with the sickness thing that I just went into assuming that this was something that had happened repeatedly. But they're only saying this one time. So the person who wrote this, you are a tiny bit of the hole. We decided to do this last time. We were like, we felt kind of bad, conflicting, calling people assholes, so we, we started calling you the hole instead. You're a tiny bit of a hole. For turning one incident into a threat. Like, what Xander just said is the much better way to communicate. Like, loop back around, say, hey, it was really distressing for us to show up and realize that people were sick and we didn't know beforehand. Please, next time let us know if anybody is sick. If they do it again after you've made that clear request, then I think you could phrase it as like, look, we asked for this, you didn't do it. If this continues to happen, like, we're just not gonna come because we can't trust that we're not gonna be exposed to germs when we do. Yeah, I mean, don't, don't come in hot and heavy with the threat.

Yeah, I mean, and I guess the six week old baby is, is a bit of the wild card there. I was saying that what I, my suggestion applied, like, if the baby weren't in the picture. But, you know, I, I don't know. We, we aren't parents. I don't know exactly what the protocols are on babies and how old they are.

I think you can, you can be very firm when you say, like, look, this was really distressing to us. We have a baby. Babies are more susceptible to, you know, illnesses. This could have been really bad. Like, you can be very firm. But again, I think it's not usually effective to come in hot and heavy with a threat the first time you've communicated something to someone.

And I mean, I think the other thing though is that, you know, with this, I think, you know, from everything what I remember of being a kid and everything I know of my friends who are parents is like, there are differing schools of thought on kids and sickness and germs. Like, you know, there is the reality that kids are sick all the time, especially like once they're in school and stuff. And if, you know, parents have multiple kids, it's like, it's very hard to like properly prevent sickness. And so I think there are definitely some people who are of the thought of, like, oh, it's just kids. Like, kids, there's like, there's always germs. Like, it is what it is. And so I think that, you know, I wouldn't come in hot and heavy. Like, you are horrible people for doing this. Like, don't you know that it's not good for a six week old baby? I think it's more of taking ownership for, hey, this is how we want to, this is how we want to approach health with our child. We would like for you to respect that with us. I get that you might have a different perspective around that.

Yeah. All right, here's our next scenario. Am I the asshole for thinking it's rude to give someone a gift when they have said they don't want anything?

Do we think, is this the mother? Real quick? Is this the mother from the first.

One she ran into? I have made an agreement with my own parents and siblings that we will not exchange gifts this year and instead will all only gift the children. I told my husband's family that my family made that decision, and I stated that I do not want anything and would rather it go to the kids. They essentially said, we're not doing that in a nicer way, of course, and asked for a wish list. Now I have the responsibility of creating and sending a wish list. Plus, I have to take the time to send thank you notes for gifts that aren't special because I told them exactly what to get, which is the better alternative than leaving it to them by being stubborn and not sending a list when I'd really rather just get nothing. So let's start with the first question, Xander. Is someone an asshole for thinking it's rude to give someone a gift when they have said they don't want anything?

Yeah. I mean, in general, it is rude to do something that someone tells you they don't want.

Yes. Yes, I agree with you on that one. And I think this is a tough one for people at this time of year because so many of us have really great associations with gift giving. I mean, I'm somebody who loves giving gifts. It brings me so much joy to give gifts. I enjoy giving gifts more than I enjoy receiving gifts. So I love the holidays. Like, I think about gifts all the time, so I understand that. Like, you know, for me, if somebody told me I don't want a gift, which actually is the case, my brother this year said that he doesn't want gifts. There is an amount of sadness that comes up for me of, like, oh, but shoot. Like, this is such a great, fun, meaningful way for me to show love.

To be fair, your brother did suggest.

An alternative, though, which I think is the perfect solution to this.

So it is like giving it. You are gifting him in a different way.

Wait, I have to confess something, though.

Yeah. You don't know what the alternative is?

No, I literally, this morning, bought him a gift.

Oh, was it the thing I found last night where I was like, oh, your brother would love this? Yes.

It was just too perfect to not.

Give it to him? Well, you know what?

Oh, my God. I'm the Asshole.

Well, you know what, babe? I was the one. Wait. I was the one that found it. And you were the asshole, too, to be fair. Oh, no. He sent an email. I was gonna be like, you know, your brother didn't tell me not to give him a gift.

Did. We're both assholes. We need to just end the episode here. We are both holiday assholes.

I have a great idea. Your brother and I are both the same size. So I will wear that to Christmas, and I'll be like, you know what? We got this for you, Jonathan. I'm curious if. I don't think you listen to our podcast, but maybe you do, and then this will be ruined. But I will wear the gift that I thought that you would love, and I will give you the choice whether you want to take it off of my back or not.

I'm just dying inside a little bit that I am recognizing.

Did you order it?

I did.

Nice.

It was just too perfect of a gift not to give him.

Okay, well, I like it too. I like it, too. It'll look good on me as well.

Okay, so here's what he did, though, which I think is a perfect solution for this situation. So my brother has struggled historically with Christmas because he's not big on gift receiving. I think he actually likes giving gifts.

He does.

He doesn't like receiving gifts, and he can feel like, you know, the holidays are materialistic and it's just overly consumerist. And actually, he and I have had some, like, some family drama over the holidays because I love gifts so much, and it's, like, it's so meaningful and special to me. And we've had a hard time, like, seeing each other's perspectives and recognizing that, like, we're both right. Like, we both get to have our own experiences of the holidays. So what he did this year and is he said, look, I really don't need anything. So if you feel the desire, though, to get me a gift, he gave two options. One was a category of things of quality time, things that we could do together. And it was things like.

Still basically a gift.

Yeah, it was like, we could go to an exercise class together. We could go on a hike. We could go grab coffee. So he gave specific ideas, but the general theme was, let's spend quality time doing something meaningful, having a shared experience. And then the other category was, you could also donate in my name to any of these organizations. And he gave, like, you know, a couple of organizations that are really dear to his heart. And I think that's a beautiful solution. And that would be a great solution for the person here where like, you're giving people specific things to give you and you know, you could just do the donations if you don't want to have any quality time with your in laws because you're annoyed with them now, but don't. But yeah, I think it's allowing them to show you their love and to show you that they care about you, but in a way that feels good to you. So I think that's a great solution. I will have to rethink my. It was a really cute sweatshirt and I'm planning on doing the donations anyways, so I'm gonna have to rethink it, but it. Man. Okay, I'm just gonna, I will just accept that I'm the holiday asshole here.

Okay. All right, let's see. Do you want to know what I think about this?

Okay.

I mean, this is. Yeah, this is tricky because it's like on your side of the family. You've got. It sounds like you guys have made a collective decision, your parents, amongst your parents and siblings that you're not, you're all not exchanging gifts. What I can't tell is whether you've then told your husband's family, like, oh, yeah, everyone in my side of the family isn't exchanging gifts. I can't tell if you're suggesting to them that they, that you want to apply this to their whole family, in which case I totally get them being like, no, we're not doing that, or if you are just saying, hey, this is what we are doing in my family. And as a result, like, in order to be consistent and so, you know, for my kids, I would appreciate it if you didn't give us gifts. And like, we will also not be doing gifts. Okay, that's fine. I think it's hilarious that they said, no, we're not gonna do that, and then do said, now give us a list.

I mean, I think the list is hilarious.

The list is hilarious. Where, I mean, honestly, where I think you went wrong is you gave them. You, you played into that. You should have just said, no. Like, we're not. Like I told you, we, like, like I said, we don't want gifts. And I'm not going to give you a list. I'm not going to give you a list. And I'm, you know, I'm not going to send thank you cards for gifts that I didn't ask for. Instead, you have created all this extra work for yourself by being like, oh, well, okay, well, if you're going to Give them to me. Then I guess I'm going to have to give you a list. I'm going to tell you what we want because I don't trust you to give us gifts. And then I'm going to write you cards for the gifts that don't feel special even though you're the one that said what they are. So I don't know, it sounds like you've created a whole lot of work for yourself and manufactured a lot of resentment. But again, like, yeah, they are the assholes for kind of being rude. But then again, it's hard to tell how clear or firm of a boundary you actually sat around this.

Yeah. Before we go any further, we want to tell you a little bit more about our sponsors. First up, we have Storyworth. If you are spending time with your family during the holidays, chances are you're going to hear a lot of stories. The ones you love to hear, the ones you've heard and and then the ones you've heard too many times. But have you ever wanted to help your loved ones document those timeless stories? It can be challenging to write an entire book of life memories, but Storyworth makes this so fun and easy. And best of all, they are offering $10 off your first purchase@storyworth.com pillow so we got Storyworth for both of my parents during the last holiday season and we loved being able to give it because it was just such a meaningful gift. Not like the same old crap that we've given them every year that just winds up in the trash. Like this just is a super meaningful and personal gift that your loved one and your entire family can really cherish. So how it works is that every week Storyworth emails your loved one a single life related question. And you get to pick the questions too, which is really fun. So all they do is reply with a story so you know it's a paragraph. It doesn't really take very much time. Both of my parents really enjoyed it cause they were unusual questions, things they hadn't thought about in a while. It was just like fun for them to do. Then after that year is up, Storyworth compiles your loved ones, stories, memories and even photos if you want into a beautiful hardcover book. So you get this like physical keepsake that you can get to hold onto, can look back on, can cherish for generations to come. It's just such a fun gift. We're really excited that they are sponsors again because we love telling you about them and we highly recommend this especially for the holiday seasons with Storyworth. I'M giving those I love most a thoughtful personal gift from the heart and preserving their memories and stories for years to come. Get started right away by going to storyworth.com pillow. You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's S-T-O-R-Y-W-O-R-T-.com pillow for $10 off. Okay, we got a couple of like rapid fire questions or themes that came up and I think it would be good for us to address one of them here. Am I the asshole for not wanting to send a wish list? So a lot of people in, like, different ways were like, I don't like making lists. Like, it doesn't feel fun to me to receive, like, the exact things that I've asked for. Like, we've had this issue come up in my own family. People like, you know, it's stressful to have to like, make a list and then it doesn't feel fun. Like, I'd rather people surprise me with gifts or it feels more meaningful or more special if I haven't liked, like, specifically asked for that exact thing. So what's your hot take on that? Like, are you the. If you don't want to send a gift list?

My hot take is that, yes, you are the asshole. Because you are not considering that there. When. When we say gift list or wish list or whatever you want to call it, there's a whole range of specificities that you can put on that list. And I think that we. It's so easy if you don't feel comfortable with that that you jump to the extreme, which is putting the specific. I want this shirt in this color, in this size.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, of course that takes a surprise out of it. Well, it doesn't really, because you don't always get everything on the list anyway. But still, I mean, you could put, I want, you know, I would like a blue T shirt or I would like this type of experience. Like, you can, you can put get as vague as you want. Or like, I like clothes from this store. Get me something here. Or I like clothes from this mall. Like what?

Like, that might be a little too vague.

That might be a little vague. You might get something weird.

But yeah, I mean, I did, like, on my list this year. I said, like, I want a white ceramic pitcher that's like kind of a modern minimal shape. I gave a couple of examples of like, exact links. I said, or you could find something. Like, I think it'd be really cool if you found something from like a local Claymaker. What do you call people? Ceramicist maybe?

Yeah, clay maker.

Not a clay maker, a ceramicist. It's like, yeah, if you want to do that. So I gave a couple of options, but I think that makes it feel for me. It makes it feel more exciting because I don't know the exact item that I'm getting. But I'm also giving enough guidance for somebody. Like, you know, like, I recognize that not everybody loves to give gifts the same way that I do. For a lot of people, it's like, like it's a tradition. It feels meaningful. I want to do it, but I don't have the time and energy to be thinking of meaningful gifts for every single person.

Or you don't know that person well enough. Really? And you feel like, well, like, you know, I don't want to like offend them by giving them something weird because also it's like, how many times have you gotten weird ass.

Oh yeah.

Where you're like, what?

That just end up getting into a landfill or gifted to somebody?

Also very much an argument for like, yeah, like, let's get specific. Let's make sure it's meaningful. Let's make sure you actually want it and use it so it doesn't go in the trash.

Yeah. I think this is another way that we get so in our heads about asking for what we want. Like, we all just have this secret desire that the people in our lives that love us can just read our minds and know exactly what we want and need and we don't have to ask them for it. And it's just another way that that manifests. Like, I don't want to have to tell you what I want. Like, I just want you to come up with the plan, perfect Christmas gift for me and wrap it up beautifully and surprise me with it. So, I mean, I get both ends of it. Like, you know, I of course would love if everybody in my life came up with these really beautiful, meaningful gifts and I didn't have to ask for anything. And I just got to have that experience of like, wow, everybody knows me so well. But I also recognize that people are busy and not everybody's brains think in the same way when it comes to meaningful gifts and like that it actually is a sign of, of care and consideration to take a little bit of time to tell people, like, hey, if you gave me something like this, it would be really meaningful to me and.

I wouldn't be surprised if you started putting together your vague ass wish list that you might actually happen upon certain things where you're like, okay, actually, maybe there is a specific one that I want and start feeling into. Like, okay, well, do I actually want to, like, if. If they're going to give me something, you know, from this store or something of this type? Like, why don't I get the thing I want? Like, the thing that comes to mind me is like, if I wanted a surfboard for Christmas, I could. If I just put. I want a surfboard. Oh, my God, I have no idea what I would get.

It probably something from Costco I would get.

Yeah, I'd get like, a Wavestorm from Costco and be like, that's not what I like. That's not what I like. I don't surf that type of board. It's way too long. It's got too much volume. Like, you know, but even if I was specific, like, oh, I'd like a board that's about, like, 35 liters of volume. And between this length and that length, there's so many different shapes out there and different types of boards that are used for different things. Like, I'm really the only one that knows what it is that I truly want and need in that area. And even then, honestly, I don't really know what I want or need. That's another story for another podcast. But, yeah, I think that there are certain things where you're gonna want to be specific, and there's certain things where if you don't care enough, then be vague.

Okay. As you were talking, I think I came up with a solution for my asshole situation.

Okay.

I think what I'm gonna do.

Donate it to one of his organizations.

No, I'm gonna do it right now and we'll see. Maybe I'll get an answer while we continue recording this. I'm gonna text my brother and tell him, I saw that you don't want gifts, and I want to respect that. That is your desire around the holidays.

Wait, wait. Can we call him and put him on speaker? Let's do it. Let's do it on the podcast and see what happens.

We can't because we're recording both on my.

Oh, no.

With our phones.

Do FaceTime on your computer.

Okay, we can try this. Let's see.

Let's see if we get a hold of him. Hey, what's up?

Hey. I have a quick question for you.

Yeah?

Okay. So I saw your email that you do not want to get Christmas gifts this year, and I totally respect that and I love the. The options that you gave. I'm definitely planning on doing one of them. And I also found a small thing that just feels like very meaningful that I think you would enjoy, and I wanted to give it to you. So I wanted to ask you, like, would you be okay receiving a small gift or does it just feel like I just really don't want any. I don't really don't want anything physical.

That's okay. No, yeah, that's fine. It didn't have to be like super, you know, rigid or whatever, but that was just kind of putting out my preference, you know.

Awesome. Great. Okay. I'm glad I asked.

Yeah. Thanks for checking in.

You're very welcome. All right, well, I'll talk to you later.

All right, love you.

Love you too. Bye. Christmas is saved.

Wow, he picked up. I'm so glad I suggested that. I'm curious. Yeah, well, hopefully Art will be able to really like boost. Boost the volume on him so that we can hear that.

Wow.

Okay.

Well, there you go. I solved my own asshole scenario. We are good communication, assholing ourselves. Live in the moment.

Good communication in action.

Yeah. And isn't that like. That was interesting too, to just hear him say. Because I didn't know if, you know, he could have very well said, no, I feel very strongly this is a boundary. I don't want to receive anything like, please don't. So it was good to ask because I didn't know.

Yeah, I mean. And so, hey, to everyone listening, I mean, this is a. That's a great way to do it. Rather than being like, no, I'm going to give you a gift. It's like, hey, you know what? I found something that just really reminded me of you or I thought that you would love. So you're leading with more of the emotion rather than like. Rather than the like, oh, I'm going to. I'm. No, I'm going to spend money and give you something. It's more of like, no, I saw something really thought of you. I was wondering if you might be open to me getting that for you because, you know, it just reminds me of you.

All right, let's move on to the next one. I own a small bakery. My mother in law asked how much I charge for a German chocolate cake to take to her daughter's house for Thanksgiving. I told her $40. She said she would get back to me after she spoke to her daughter to see what she should bring to their get together. Then she texted me and said, I have to be honest, that price is a little steep. I'm a tight wad.

Lol.

Mind you, she's always supporting other small businesses in town, sharing posts and donating money, etc. Am I the asshole? For one, not offering her a free or discounted cake because she's my mother in law and two, being upset that she said my cakes were too expensive when I know she spent at least that buying from others. This is a good one. I'm really torn on this one.

I, I don't have a good like immediate answer. I guess I have like two follow up questions which is do you regularly offer discounts to family or friends or for specific situations? I guess I'm curious because that kind of impacts whether the, the question of like, you know, are you the asshole for not offering her a discounted cake? I don't know what your practice is. I know different businesses have different practices around that. There might be someone goes, you know, no, like this is a bakery, it's a super low margin business. Like there aren't discounts to give. Like we, we barely scrape by anyway, so. But it might be that it's like, oh yeah, you know, whatever for family, you know, or for friends. We're for whatever repeat customers, we do this. So I don't know what the answer to that is.

I, I think you're not an asshole for not offering the free or discounted cake, but I do think like you could have offered for your discounted. Like to me it does feel, and this is just who I am, like to me it feels weird to not give things to fam like close, close family or friends for free or at least a discount.

Like yeah, or maybe not free. I mean it's, you know, she, she's running, she's paying rent on a bakery and I, you know, it costs money to make a cake. Like, or like at cost or something. Maybe.

I don't know. I'm stuck with this one because I'm like, I wouldn't charge personally, but that's just me. I don't want to tell somebody that they need to run their life the same way that I would. So I don't want to say this person's the asshole. But I think like, yeah, it's something that maybe you could have considered. I love that the mother in law asked how much you charge. Like rather, you know, she didn't demand a free cake or like what's the friends and family discount on the cake or anything like that. My hunch is that it was one of those like I'm asking, but I'm not really like, I don't actually want to pay. I'm Asking because I want you to feel respected. But like I'm kind of expecting that you're going to be like, oh no, no, don't worry about it, I'll give.

It to you for free. Or like, or like, oh, you know. Yeah, I sell them for 40 bucks in the shop, but I'll do 20 for you.

Yeah, I guess I'm just coming down on nobody's the asshole like around the cake. So then let's go to the second part of it which is you're upset that she said your cakes were too expensive. Well, I don't think she said your cakes are too expensive. Yes, the text, and we have the receipts here. The text said I have to be honest, that price is a little steep. I'm a tight wad. I can see how this person interpreted that as she's saying my cakes are too expensive. But I actually think the mother in law was trying to be very clear in saying I'm the problem here. I'm a tightwa.

Yeah, the price is a little bit steep for me. I'm guessing that's what she meant. And then she's trying to make a self deprecating joke by saying I'm a tightwad. Lol. Like she especially, she adds the lull in there. I think like she's trying to show that she. To soften it.

You know what, I have, I have my decision here. I think that nobody is the asshole. Exactly. Here. But I do think that the person writing this cannot get mad at the mother in law for like supporting other businesses, sharing posts, donating money, yada yada. Like this person's thinking my mother in law is an asshole for not being willing to pay me full price. But you can't like be judging your mother in law for that when you are not willing to offer at least a small discount to your mother in law. So I think like again, I don't want to call this person an asshole for not offering the discount. If that's, that's, you know, the way they want to run their own business, that's their prerogative. But I just don't think you can get mad at your mother in law for not being willing to pay the full price.

Yeah. And I think perhaps the mother in law missed an opportunity, you know, missed an opportunity to just be honest about what was going on. Of like, oh, okay. Like I was, I was thinking that maybe you would offer me a discount or something like that.

Yeah. Especially for like Thanksgiving. And it's not clear like, like did. Were they all spending Thanksgiving together too. Cause like I think that kind of.

I'm guessing not because she says to take to her daughter's house for Thanksgiving.

But they don't say like, you know, I didn't go to there. I don't know. That kind of adds another little wrinkle to it too. But yeah, no one's the asshole, but you can't get mad at your mother in law. That's where I come down on this one.

All right, and our final one or final long one? We have a couple rapid fires to come after that. My workplace never has Christmas parties, but my husband's does. Every year. His work is a small company of less than 20 employees. My husband does not get along with one of the co workers so he doesn't want to go to the Christmas party at all. Spouses are always invited, so of course I want to go. It's the only Christmas party we ever get to go to and I've known quite a few people he works with almost my whole life. They've asked me to still come to the party even if he won't go. Last year I supported his decision and neither of us went. This year if he refuses to go, I told him I'll go without him to his work Christmas party. Am I the asshole? Side note, my dad owns the company and is my husband's boss, so both of my parents are at the party. My dad is not the coworker my husband hates.

The side note killed me on this one. Like they actually sent it as a separate message later. I'm like, that's not a side note. That is central to the story. Makes a difference that completely changes the whole thing. If it was like just some random job where you know, he doesn't like the employees and yada yada, Like I was like why?

Why you want to go to a random Christmas party?

In, in neither situation actually is this person the asshole? Like if you want to go to a Christmas party, go to a Christmas party like your husband's. He's allowed to make his own decision and say I don't want to go, that's fine, but he's not allowed to tell you that you can't go. But yeah, like the fact that it's your family business like really changes things. Like you are in no way, shape or form the asshole for wanting to go to a holiday party from your parents business.

Yeah, you'd be like, I'm going with my dad.

If anything, I think your husband's a little bit of an asshole for not wanting to Go. Like, I get that he doesn't like his co workers and doesn't like.

No, just one. It's only one.

Oh, oh, that's right.

Yeah. He just has a Grinch.

Your husband is a Grinch. I'm sorry, he's being real Scrooge. One coworker. You can't let one. Everybody has one co worker they don't like. You can't let one co worker ruin your entire holiday experience.

Yeah. Also at your father in law's business. Like what?

Yeah, you can.

Like, is this some like, is this like some like succession style power play or something? Like, like, come on, dude, you just gotta go be the bigger person.

Yeah, like if the husband like he likes the job, otherwise he likes his other co workers. It's his in laws that own the company. Like go to the holiday party. Get out of here.

No, but I'm really gonna prove a point to my father. I'm not gonna go to that holiday party. I'm gonna take his payroll money, but I am not gonna go to the holiday party.

All right. I mean, at the end of the day, look, people do get to decide what events they do and don't want to go to. If the husband truly does not want to party, he does not have to go to the party. But yeah, you are not the asshole for wanting to go to the party. Go enjoy yourself. Have a great time. Tell him what he missed out on when you get back. Okay, so we have a couple of rapid fire to go through. We already talked about the, the am I the asshole for not wanting to send a gift list? Here's the next one. Am I the asshole for not wanting to share the holidays? I just want to spend time with my family, not my in laws.

Yeah, you are. Oh, I mean, because I say this, this is tricky because, you know, also like with, with our family, I mean with our families, we grapple with this, you know, like it's, you know, we can't, we can't share Christmas for example, because my, my family lives like, like six hours away from your family. So it's like I can't do like you know, the, the day with one and the night with another. But what we do instead is that we, we split them up and we do Thanksgiving with my family and we do Christmas with, with your family. Christmas is a bigger celebration in your family than in mine. Christmas, you know, growing up was not really a particularly big, big event. Um, because my family doesn't really celebrate Christmas, but kind of sort of sometimes maybe they do. I don't know. But yeah, it's. This doesn't work long term. I think this is the problem is that yeah, if your plan, if your plan is to have kids who don't get to get married so that they don't have in laws and create a bigger, broader family than just yourselves, then sure, go ahead and hoard the holidays just for you. But like it, I, yes, I would say that that is selfish because you're saying I want to make a choice for me to keep the holidays just for me. But then like what are you, what's going to happen to your children when they get married and they have in laws and like it just, it's hypocritical.

I can really empathize with this one because like I love your family. I love spending time with your family. There's zero shade around this. But it's just like, you know, the holidays bring up that feeling of being a kid and the traditions and all the stuff that you used to do. And so the way that we do it is, you know, we spend Thanksgiving with your family. Chris was with my family and we've done that for like 16 years now. And I always feel sad at Thanksgiving because I miss being with my family. And again, it's zero shade to your family. I love spending time with them. It's just like I miss those traditions. I miss that. Like, yeah, for 16 years I haven't gotten to have a Thanksgiving with my family when I had it for 25 years before that. So I empathize with the like, yeah, I don't. Here, let me say this. Like, I don't want to share the holidays either. If I could be completely selfish and make a decision just about myself, I would only spend the holidays with my family.

And you'd probably still be a kid too because have all that holiday, you know, it's sort of like, yeah, if I could have my cake and eat it too. I, you know, want to be that, I don't know, like 10 year old with like that still all that wonder and excitement.

And so to me, like, I would say you're not the asshole for not wanting to share like having the desire to just spend it with your family, like that's understandable and that's okay. And I do think, like the reason that I continue to go to Thanksgiving with your family every year, despite the sadness that I feel is because I love your family and I love spending time with them. And I do think it's important to spend some of those like special times, those holiday times with Your family. So for me there's just a distinction between like the desire and the choice that you actually make. But I'll be honest here. Like, if your parents were really pushing for us to share Christmases and like split up, you know, we'd go to Christmas with them one year, like, I would really struggle with that. Like, really. So I don't have a hot take here. I just, just empathy with like, you know, and this is like the best case scenario if I hated your parents, like, this would be so easy. Right? Like, like. But this is a great, you know, I have a great situation where I love my family, I love my in laws. Like, I have two great places where I could spend holidays. But it's just hard sometimes. It's really hard sometimes. So I just, I can just empathize with that.

Yeah. And, and I, I like what you said about, yeah, it's fine to not want to. It's. But it's. Yeah. What you do in practice, I think that's the important thing of. Yeah, of course. It's, it's. I think, yeah, it's so easy to beat ourselves up over like, oh, God, like, I don't want to go to this thing or I don't want to do this. Oh God, I'm a horrible person for having that thought. And it's like, no, of course you're allowed to have that thought. You can't, you can't control that. And it's like. And of course, yeah, there's that, you know, there's that kind of inner child part of you that just wants things to be the way that they were. Like that, that's human nature.

Yeah. Especially with the holidays. It's like human nature. I just want exactly how it always was.

I just wanted to feel like the way that, that it always did. And I mean, that's part of life is accepting of adulthood and growing up is accepting that things can't always be the way that they always were.

All right, Am I the asshole for not wanting to be the one who always travels for Christmas?

No, you are not.

You're not.

I think that everybody's got to put in some work.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. This is another way where I think, like, the traditions can sometimes end up feeling stifling for people of like, oh, but we, we've always done it at grandma's house or we always do it at mom and dad's house. You know, and it can feel challenging of like, well, but it's, you know, especially when you have people who are living like across the country or different countries, you know, it's like, well, but I'm always the one who's having to make this effort to, like, pack everything up and get out there and not be in a comfortable space and, you know, all this stuff.

So, yeah, I think there are some exceptions. For example, my grandma is, I believe, 96. Did I get that right? I think my grandma is just about 96, maybe 97. And she is not capable of traveling, you know, longer than maybe, you know, 15, 30 minutes in the car. So this year, you know, this year the only option was Thanksgiving in LA with her. And, you know, and it's going to be like that, you know, for the foreseeable future. And that is. That is what it is. So when there are limitations like that with, like, age or health, then, yeah, then, yeah, of course you are allowed to be bummed of, like, oh, yeah, it sucks having to always travel. But I think there's a kind of a level of acceptance again of like, okay, yeah, like, what is the alternative? Like, we can't, you know, like, she can't get on a plane. That's just not happening. The other one is like, okay, let's give you the example of your family. You have a big family, and pretty much all of them live in Santa Barbara. If we lived in, like, New York or something, it wouldn't be fair of us to be like, how come all 30 people don't ever come to New York ever? Yeah, like, you know, that doesn't make sense. But it's like. So I think that oftentimes, you know, in families, it can be that, like, yeah, most of the family lives in one general area, and then, like, one or two people live elsewhere, and that can be challenging of like, yeah, how are you reasonably going to get them all there? Where are they all going to stay? It makes way more sense to do it where there's sort of more of a center of gravity. But if you are the type of family where it's like, we're all kind of equally spread out, and it's like, oh, well, we've always done it at mom and Dad's house or whatever. Yeah, switch it up. Sometimes it's not. Yeah, it's not fair to be like, we always do the same thing. If everyone is capable of traveling.

All right, well, that is the end of our am I the asshole? Situations. I just want to say, you know, as we're wrapping up here, like, the holidays are a joyous, wonderful, magical, beautiful time, and they're also really fucking complicated sometimes. And they can bring up big feelings. And it can feel very easy to just get stuck and frustrated and, you know, torn between wanting traditions and wanting to do things the way that they've always been done and also wanting something completely different. So if you're struggling with the holidays this year, you are not alone.

Come easy on yourself.

Everybody's got some sort of challenge. Probably most people are asking themselves, like, am I the asshole at this time of year? So we feel you on that one. We would love if you shared this episode. Maybe this could even be the next conversation starter at the family holiday dinner. You know, if you don't want to talk about politics or like, what are you doing with your life? Bring up one of these scenarios and.

Say, like, hey, what are these people doing with their life?

What do you guys think about this scenario?

Let's talk about them.

So you could send the episode to a friend who's maybe traveling on their way to family Christmas. Maybe put this on in the car with your siblings while running some last minute holiday errands. Listen to it with your partner while you're baking up your holiday feast. Maybe even share it with your parents. So spread the love the Pillow Talks. Love this holiday season. We would love to get some new listeners, some new people in this community, so we'd really appreciate your support and sharing this episode.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we go over our top 10 podcast moments from this year.