Episode 175: “Should I Put Up With This In The Bedroom?”

If you're so grossed out by your own come, you're not allowed to leave it in me.

Yeah, like, that's great. Yeah. If you're so grossed out by that, why the fuck are you putting it in me? Like, boom, mic drop, man. Guys, we got to do better. We got to fucking do better. I'm looking at you.

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

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Yeah, seriously.

This was in one of our Ask us anything question boxes. We do this over on Instagram every Sunday. If you're not following us there, definitely come on over. We're at Vanessa and Xander. It's Xander with an X. So we just, you know, every Sunday put up a question box. Ask us anything. We're here to give advice, answer random questions, like, just ask whatever you want.

We just grab the popcorn and see what comes in.

And so one question came in of a woman saying that every time she and her husband have sex, he puts in headphones and he listens to. To a podcast. And I gotta say, as a sex therapist who's been in this FIELD for over 20 years, I've heard a lot of shit. I've heard a lot of shit. Things don't surprise me. It's pretty hard to rattle me, but this is something that I had not heard about. I have to be fair. I have heard about it with Leonardo DiCaprio. There's like, this whole story about him, you know, when he has sex with, like, random fan girls or groupies or whatever. Like some people said he put on headphones and, like, listened to edm. So I've heard that.

But music? Yeah, he's. Yeah, the headphones are the Same music.

Celebrity music is a little different.

And. And, I mean, I'm not saying that that that's cool, but, yeah, it is different. If it's like a hookup versus a. This is my partner.

Yeah.

I'm married to them. We have sex regularly. And, you know, if the goal of sex is to feel physically and emotionally connected, that's what we're doing. And I'm putting the headphones on and kind of checking out.

So, yeah, this question was so fascinating to me because it brought up so many questions for me. I was like, okay, when did this start? Like, how long has this been going on?

Yeah. Because they're married, so presumably they've been together a while.

Like, I can't imagine that very first time that your partner pulls out headphones. Like, I can't imagine not saying something in the moment like, what you doing there, buddy?

Yeah. Or did he say something like, oh, I'm just gonna.

I'm gonna try. Like, I'd love to, you know. Yeah. Was there ever any sort of explanation for it? Or was it like, why does he do this?

This is just what I do by.

Yeah, what podcast is he listening to? Is it our podcast?

If so, you know, maybe we feel differently about it. No, we wouldn't actually.

So there were so many questions, and we just thought, you know what? This actually would be a really interesting topic to do an entire podcast episode about that then someone can listen to while they're having sex with their partner. So.

Wow.

We put another question. We put another question up on Instagram, and we said, okay, is there something that is happening in your sex life that you're not sure if this is normal, if it's something that you should put up with, or if it's something that you should really talk to your partner about? So this entire episode is all from these submissions we have. There's no way we're going to get through this list. We had so many. So many fascinating responses.

Yeah, people will be putting up with a lot is what the moral of the story is.

So we're going to go through all of these. We'll give you our thoughts, our hot takes. But I actually want to start with that, because when I was looking through this question box, like, to me, and I thought I phrased it this way, it's like, is there something unusual or just, like, kind of confusing or frustrating that you're, like, really uncertain about? But the vast majority of responses were things that I was like, these are blatantly obvious that you should not put up with this. Like, these are terrible things happening in people's sex lives that, like, I. So I just felt so confused. Like, did people just use this question box as an opportunity to, like, vent their frustrations? Or are there people out there who like very simple things? Like, my partner refuses to do anything to help me orgasm. My partner tells me that my body, like, smells and tastes disgusting. My partner demands that I have sex with them every single day and gets, like, angry and rage filled if I don't. Like, I was like, are people really wondering, like, is this something I should put up with or not? Because that made me so sad if that's true. So I guess we do have to give. Our usual caveat that we always try to give is, like, you know, we're just getting, like, one sentence on social media. Like, we're not talking to this couple. We're not hearing from the partner. We're not seeing, like, the whole history of all these things. What are the conversations that have been had? How did this unfold? Like, of course it's easy to have snap judgments when you're seeing one single sentence. But, like, seriously, guys, like, the very basics are really important here. Like, you deserve to have a partner who cares about you, who cares about your experience. Experience who wants you to have a good time, who wants you to feel safe in the moment. So if there are any sort of questions like that that are coming up for you, like, those are really important to pay attention to.

Yeah. The answer is no, you shouldn't put up with that.

You shouldn't put up with anything like that. So, of course, we're always going to recommend, like, seeing a couple's therapist, seeing an individual therapist if you need more help in this area. But bottom line is, like, yeah, you deserve to have a good experience with sex. Okay, so let's get into these specific answers that we got, and let's. Let's actually start with the wearing headphones during sex. So, Xander, let me come to you. What is your hot take on if your partner wants to wear headphones during sex? Is that something that you should put up with? Also, I keep tripping myself up because I keep wanting to say headphones, but also earphones.

Earbuds.

Earbuds. Is earphones a thing? No, no, they're just earphones.

Headphones. Earbuds. Headphones go over your ears. Earphones.

Earphones.

No, I think earphones might actually. You should Google that. I think that might actually be something else. But headphones go over your ears, and earbuds go inside your ears.

Headphones and Earbuds. Okay, no. Well, look, there's one thing. Earphones. God, that word sounds so weird now that I'm looking at it too much. Yeah. Best in ear. Wired and wireless. Earbuds and earphones. I don't know what. Okay, what do you think, Xander?

I mean, really, the only reason that I can see that maybe you should put up with this is if there's like, you know, your partner deals with, like, an extreme sensory issue.

Yeah, there could be some, like, neurodivergent type of stuff.

Yeah. If it's something where it's like, you know, the. The noises of sex or the. I mean, I'm. I mean, the other thing I'm thinking of is, like, are there. Is there a lot of ambient noise around you when you're having sex? Like, are you in a, you know, like, live on a busy street or your partner, like, they really need to play super loud music for them to feel sexy and that's, like, really hard for you or something. Like, so if there are some sensory issues where it's like, this is the only way that I'm able to, like, lock in and enjoy myself, then okay, then I think that's something that is cool. Assuming that you're listening to, you know, something that's like, you know, I don't know. I mean, I do wonder, like, are you really listening to a podcast? Are you, like, listening to porn? Or like, something like, are you listening to something else, like, to help you be more in the mood or something like that seems problematic. Yeah, to me. So I don't know what you're listening to. If you're truly just listening to a random podcast, like, is this a situation where, like, you couldn't just, like, think about grandma or something, like you're trying to last longer or whatever, But, I.

Mean, in general, there are better strategies and techniques for learning how to last longer than thinking about grandma, you know.

I know I say that jokingly because that's kind of like, you know, the joke, Think about grandma, think about baseball. Yet no one actually wants to be thinking about your own grandma during. No, during sex. Think about baseball. You know, the most boring sport there is. Sorry, baseball fans.

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No, I honestly know you shouldn't put up with this. You really shouldn't put up with this unless there's like a serious sensory issue and they're, you know, you are aware of what they're listening to and you are on board with that.

Yeah, I mean, I just don't, I really don't understand why this hasn't ever been a conversation. Like, again, there are some, a few, like, valid reasons why you might need to listen to a podcast during sex. But like, that's gotta be a conversation with your partner. And maybe it's just the podcast is playing in the background, you know, while the two of you are having sex. But ultimately, like, sex is an experience that we do together. It's not just like, I'm using your body to masturbate. And that's what this feels like to me. It feels so disconnected, so rude. Honestly, like, especially if he's never had any sort of conversation with her about why he's doing this. Like, it just feels really disrespectful. So, yeah, I don't think this is something that she should put up with either. Okay, here's the next one. My husband refuses to take his boxers off during sex. He puts his penis through the pee hole. I died.

Think this, this is your worst nightmare.

The visual, the visual of it, it's just, that's really something and I don't understand either. So this is a perfect example. Like, maybe there is some reason, I don't know, maybe there's some body insecurities that come up for him.

Yeah. What type of boxers? I mean, are we talking about briefs? Are you talking about old school boxers? Are they like going down to your knees? Like, how much, how much coverage are we talking about?

You know? Yeah, there might be some like, body self conscious issue. I can understand that. Um, maybe there's just. I mean, could this be some. Like, he thinks that that's what he's supposed to do. He thinks that's how sex works.

I mean, the one thing that I'm thinking of is that perhaps that this is like a very light kink or something like that. Something, you know, something about this from being a child or teenager or something feels sexy or dirty. Like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to dig it through the hole.

Well, because we do, like, with women, we do the, like, pull your underwear to the side thing. And like, that can be sometimes, but that's not a. Like, every single time. It's also, like, I think that's something that's hot to do for like, 15 seconds. And then you're like, get them off, you know.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

I mean, every single time. And leaving them on the entire time. Like, that's. That's a lot.

Yeah. I mean, because, you know, there can be some, like, chafage issues. I probably last chafing is less of an issue with sticking your penis through the boxer hole as it is with, like, pulling the. The underwear aside. Yeah, I mean, we did. We. We chatted with this. We chatted on this one with, like, a couple of our team members. And, yeah, it was brought up like, okay, if we play switch the genders, like, does this change? And my thought is, like, just like you said, yeah, sometimes it's hot to pull the underwear aside. But, like, if that was, like, how we had to do it every single time, we'd be like, all right, like, come on, like, can't we just take our clothes off?

Yeah, I mean, I also. So, okay, let's say that it is something that is like a fetish or a kink for him. Like, he gets genuine enjoyment out of it. Should someone put up with that, then?

I mean, I think I would talk about. I mean, I would ask. I would ask the person who's writing in about this.

Does it bother you?

Yeah. Is this bothering you? Are you okay with this? Because I feel like this is almost more worded, like, is this normal? Like, if it's bothering you or you don't want to 100% of the time have sex like that. And it is sort of like a little bit of a fetish thing or something. Like he got some extra enjoyment or satisfaction being like, oh, yeah, I couldn't even get my boxers off. I just kind of suck it through the hole. If that's the case, then you could talk about, okay, well, okay, can we do that sometimes? And sometimes we take them all the way off. Or maybe when you initiate sex, you get to do it that way. And then when I initiate sex, we get to do it my way. Something like that. But if you Are genuinely like, yeah, this is like, turning into an ick for me. I do think it is within your rights to be like, hey, we gotta, we gotta stop this. And if it is a body confidence issue, like, unlike a. Unlike a sensory issue in the last one where, you know, I don't think, you know, if it's a neurodivergent slash sensory issue, it's like, that's not necessarily something that we can say. Yeah, you just got to work through that. But if this is a body confidence issue, I do think this is something that you could work on together to get more comfortable taking your boxers off. Because the reality is we have to be able to take our clothes off.

Well, actually, if we want to play the switch the genders role, we do hear from a lot of women who don't like to take their tops off during sex. Like, and it is a body consciousness thing, a weight thing often, like, so they'll wear like a big oversized shirt. Like, I don't want my partner to see my belly. I mean, I know, like, growing up, you know, being a teenager in the 90s, like, I'm just permanently scarred by seeing all the women's magazines and like, tabloid magazines with like, you know, your belly rolls in positions and stuff like that. So it's like we are very conscious of, oh, is my belly, like, making a little roll in this position? Does it look unflattering in this angle? So there are a lot of women who. And you know, people of other genders too, I'm sure, who like, don't want to take their tops off.

Oh, yeah, for sure. But I think our perspective on that would be that this is something that you can and should try to work through together. Because we do believe that there is something really empowering. Like, there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah, yeah, you can.

You will feel a lot more empowered. You will feel a lot more sexy if you can get through that and can learn to love your body for what it is. Because, you know, if you are covering it up, like, I mean, it's like a band aid, like putting a band aid over a cut. Like, you don't see the cut, but you still have a cut, it's still gonna hurt. Like, if you're like, I don't feel confident in my body and you cover the thing that you don't feel confident about. It's not like that. It's not like that goes away. You're still having sex with these thoughts and beliefs running through your head. And so why not try to address those thoughts and beliefs, rather than the band aid of, oh, well, let me just cover it up to kind of lessen some of those thoughts, but still have a lot of them.

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I think this is something that he might want to consider. Perhaps some, like, medical investigation or like, lifestyle changes. If.

So you think he's not trying to hold it in?

I don't. I'm not gonna pass. Well, even if he. If. Okay, let's. Let's believe him. If he's like, yeah, God, I'm trying so hard to hold it in. In fact, like, I'm not even enjoying sex that much because I'm clenching my asshole the whole time.

Is that the face?

I don't know. This is my asshole. Gross. I don't know. Two assholes clenched, even if that is the case. Well, one, that's not a medical issue. That's not. That's not a good experience for you. It's not a good experience for your partner. It's not a good experience for your body. So perhaps you might consider some dietary changes or some supplements or, you know, talk to a doctor about your flatulence. If it is. So if it is so bad that you cannot even have sex without trying so hard to not fart, and you are farting a lot and loudly, I would investigate that issue. And yeah, no, like, you, as the partner shouldn't put up with, oh, well, I'm. I'm trying so, you know, bombs away.

I agree. Yeah, you can't just. I don't believe him that he's trying to hold it in. And yeah, you can't just say Like, I'm farting uncontrollably all the time. Like, yeah, let's be fair. Sometimes one just slips out. Bodies are bodies. Farts are normal. You know, everybody farts.

But you are a bit. You are a bit biased here because you very rarely believe me when I say that I did try to not fart.

There is a very obvious difference. You can tell when one just.

There, there it is.

There's out versus.

Oh, yeah, she is the authority. Yeah, she can tell. She can tell there's science behind this.

I want people to come over to our Instagram and let us know, because I think that this is very, very valid. I can tell when you are farting and, like, it just squeaks out.

And you can control Vanessa's foolproof farting.

You do fart method, and it's just like. It's like a little squeaky little one versus, like, it sounds different. And I can tell when there's like a. Like, you've pushed it out. You've made an effort to push it out. Your face isn't surprised.

Well, I might be making an effort.

The sound of the fart is different.

I might be making an effort to push it out silently.

Mm, doesn't matter. It's still pushing. So I. I totally think you can tell as the partner when somebody's making an effort versus when they're not. But the bottom line is, like, farts are normal. Everybody farts. Like, this is not a. Like, you cannot fart a single time during sex ever. But if it's like, these are really loud, over the top farts, they're happening very frequently. Like, that's a different. Yeah, that's a different issue.

It's noisy and it's smelly, and that's, like, not what you're. That's not the vibe you want to be going for during sex.

Yeah, that's just not, like, a very respectful or thoughtful position to put your partner in. And also, they didn't even mention the smell. If these are smelly farts. Hell no. I'm not sitting there pinned. Pinned under you while I'm, like, smelling something terrible. No way. Okay, the next one.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. I have an idea, though. I have a great idea for this one. And it's going to pull together a couple of our last ones.

I mean, keep his boxers on.

Yeah. No, no, no. You should buy those. You know, those, like, those underwear with, like, the carbon filter in the butt. Like, they make these fart underwear where supposedly there's, like, some carbon thing in The. But man, we really, we really need them as a podcast sponsor right about now. I could like, hold it. I mean, I could do a whole pitch right now. We'd probably sell a lot of these. But you know, it's like the underwear, it has the carbon thing in the butt that absorbs the odor, supposedly. And so he could wear those and then put his penis through the hole. Boom. In that case, problem solved. Wear the underwear 100% of the time. Bombs away, buddy. Enjoyed. If that is what. If that's what this other guy who won't take his boxers off during sex is doing, then I salute you, buddy. You have found the sex hack. Okay, I mean, maybe we should just stop this right here and be like, you know what? Actually all these people are right.

It's not going to get any better from here, so maybe we should just stop this. What are we, like 20 minutes?

Yeah, I think about exactly 20 minutes.

Okay. We have to move on though. This next one I wanted to. To talk about this one close to the farting one, because it's also a Bodily bodies doing body things. So the full response that was written in this question box was just two words. Profuse sweating during sex, I assume.

Yes, I've. I have some questions.

Interesting.

I mean, I have a number of questions. One, like, what is the temperature in the room? Like, can we adjust the. The temperature of the room perhaps?

Like, because that's such an interesting one. Like, people are so weird about setting up the. Like, people are like, oh, I didn't want to like turn on the AC because then it was like too obvious that you were gonna have sex. Or like, I didn't want to put on music because it was just like too obvious.

Heaven forbid that we know that we're gonna have sex that we know we're gonna have because we're married and we have sex with each other.

You don't have to be married to have sex. But yes.

Well, yeah, sorry. And sorry. And a bunch of these other ones. It was like husbands thinking marriage. But no, like we are together and we have sex. Yes, but we don't. But no, we shouldn't know that we are going to have sex even though we have sex. And that's why we are in a relationship together and we enjoy doing it. But no, we can't know that it's going to happen.

Bottom line, turn on your frickin ac. Get a frickin fan. Make yourselves comfortable. So yes, that could be one aspect of it.

Yeah. Now, there are definitely some medical conditions that can cause Excessive sweating, Hyperhidrosis. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm. I'm not saying, you know, I think the treatments for that are definitely imperfect. I know, you know, people. People get Botox in areas to prevent sweating, which is definitely not a perfect solution. I mean, yeah, if this is a ongoing medical issue that is impacting your. I mean, if. If this is happening during sex, I would imagine that perhaps this excessive sweating is also impacting other areas of your life. So, you know, this might be a conversation to be had amongst partners of like, hey, is this something that we could consider seeking some medical opinions on?

This is such a.

Or is the sex so vigorous? Like, could you adjust the vigorousness of the sex that you were having?

I had a partner way back in the day that, like, had a sweating issue. And on the one hand, I was like, you know, I know that that's just your body. It's just, you know, the cards that you were dealt with and, like, sweating is just. Nor I sweat, too. It's a normal part of having a body. And at the same time, it's like, there were certain positions that we would be in where it was just, like, raining down on me. And it was challenging in the moment, and it wasn't, like, it wasn't enjoyable for him either. So, like, this is a. I want to be so careful about the language because I don't want to shame anybody for sweating. And at the same time, like, I also want to realistic that, like, if there is a lot of it, like, it just. And if it's. Yeah. If you're, like, getting sweated on, it can just be an unpleasant experience for both partners.

Yeah. I mean, which is why I think it's. It's reasonable to say, hey, let's, you know, let's. Let's talk about ways that this could potentially be addressed or reduced or, you know, whatever that. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think, you know, this is why we have to decide, like, early on in relationships, like, are these things that we can put up with? I think so many people. Our lesson from reading so many of these is that people just, like, did not think early on, like, oh, I have any right to have a preference on this thing. But I think the reality is that, you know, early on in relationships, we in general are, you know, we are believers in sex before marriage because sex is such an important part of a relationship. And it's like, yeah, like, as you are becoming sexually active with someone, like, thinking about, yeah, like, is this. Is this the type of sex that I am happy with that I want to be having. Like, this is a key part of a relationship. Is this something that I. Yeah. Is this the type of sex that I do want to put up with? Hopefully it's not just put up with, like, that I enjoy and I'm excited about.

Yeah.

But, yeah, if you are in a situation where it has been years of putting up with something that you honestly don't really want to put up with, like, then, yeah, it's time to have a conversation about, what can we do about this?

A fan. Get a fan blowing on you. Have a little, like, towel nearby that you can, like, wipe off in the middle. Be thoughtful about positions, maybe that you want to be in there. Yeah. There are things to do, but, yeah, bottom line is, like, I think it's okay as long as you're talking about it in a kind, respectful way with your partner. It is okay for you to say, like, I want to do something to address the sweating.

Yeah. And I think the key is focus on your experience. It's not like, ew, you are so gross. It is so gross that you can't stop sweating. Instead, it's like, hey, you know, like, this is, you know, this is not the most pleasant experience for me. Talk about your experience, what it is like for you. You know, it's hard for me to stay in the moment. It's hard for me to, you know, to reach orgasm when I'm, you know, being distracted by, you know, the sweat falling on me or whatever, thinking about, oh, God, do I need to suggest that we change positions because this is getting hard or, you know, whatever. So focus on your experience and, you know, the impact on you that will take away from the potential of it feeling like you're shaming the other person. And it's just like, hey, can we, you know, can we talk about ways to address this so that both of us can have a better experience?

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I mean, I think that this is probably some like, religious trauma or like purity culture just impacting some sort of deep sexual shame, you know, from childhood, from teenage years, this sort of shame or this idea that our naked bodies are sinful or gross and that we shouldn't be looking at them. And you know, this is sort of the problem with a lot of that type of conditioning because with all that conditioning, no one is saying, no, you can't be naked once you're married. No, you can't have sex once you're married. But the problem is once you are conditioned with, well, before you're married. This is gross. Before you're married, this is bad. Before you're married, you shouldn't look at this stuff. Then there's no way to flip that switch once you do get married, despite, you know, everybody telling you, oh, yeah, no, you're married. It's all cool. It's all good. Now the reality is you can't flip that switch. And honestly, it's probably easier for some people than others. There are plenty of people for where it is so hard that, like, this guy is just, like, you know, so hardwired to, like, I can't even look at you. And. Yeah. And it sounds like that's having a really adverse impact on you, the person writing in.

So, yeah, I. I would say this is not something to put up with because it's the experience that it leaves you with is feeling like your body is shameful and something that, like, shouldn't be looked at or it's dirty or it's gross. Like, this isn't a. It's not like, a personal preference that this husband has or, like, it's nothing about his boundaries or security or sense of safety or anything like that. Like, it's this really twisted idea that's, like, wormed his way into some pretty deep and dark part of his brain, I'm sure. But, like, yeah, this is.

It's having a significant adverse impact on you and how you feel about yourself.

Yeah. So it's definitely something worth. You know, it sounds like this person has talked to the husband at least once and said it makes him sad. But, yeah, I think it's worth maybe a deeper conversation of, like, this is making me feel like my body is shameful or something is wrong with my body or, like, I want you to look at my body. I want you to, like, delight in my body.

Yeah.

And I. Yeah, there might be some, like, deeper therapy that needs to happen.

Oh, 100. I. I was about to say, I think 100% there is a lot of deeper therapy that is going to be needed. And I think it would be well within the realm of reason for you to say, hey, I need you to seek some help in this area because this is, you know, this isn't the type of dynamic I want to have in our relationship forever where, like, where you're, you know, where you're disgusted by my body, you know, where you don't feel comfortable looking at my body. Like, that's not, that's not how I look at marriage. You know, I'm. I'm inferring what you might Be thinking. But you know, put say however you feel about that. What do you want your marriage to look like? What do you want like you. How do you want your. Each of your relationships with the other's bodies. Naked bodies to be. And try to express that. Hey, like this is what I signed up for and I have a lot of compassion for. For you. And this must be really hard for you because I'm assuming this is really hardwired in and you have some. You know, I'm feeling neg. I'm feeling poorly about my own body because of what you're doing. I imagine you also feel really bad about this too if you're not even able to look at your wife's naked body. So yeah, I think you gotta. You gotta get some help and I think that's probably a personal journey for this person.

Yeah, he won't touch me after he comes because he doesn't want to touch it. The come.

Oh buddy, gotta get over this shit. You gotta get over.

I'm assuming that this means like he won't. I'm assuming this means like he won't touch her vulva because he's like ejaculated into it. And then. Yeah, okay, there's cum there.

Okay, two things. Let me tell you a secret, buddy. She wants you to touch her clitoris, not her. Not put your fingers in her vagina. Your cum is in her vagina, it is not in her clitoris unless you are cumming wrong. So yeah, your cum is in the vagina, is not in the clitoris. Nothing can go into the clitoris. So you can still touch her clit and you absolutely should. So if you. Yeah, I mean whatever. It's possible that she just wants internal stimulation. But Most the vast 90 plus percent of women are. Are wanting clitoral stimulation to get to orgasm after you've already come. So you can touch her without actually touching your cum. But number two, dude, cum is a natural like outcome of sex.

Just like her getting the outcome of having a body.

Yeah, having a body. Just like, just like her getting wet. Like is that's part of sex. Like the cum. Your cum is part of sex too. And like. Yeah, I mean I'm not telling you that you have to enjoy it, but it is. You are missing out on just like the. You are missing out on just aspects of enjoying sex. If your perspective is. Oh my God, it's so gross.

Yeah, I mean this is another.

I can't see it or touch it.

This is another one that's a sign of deep rooted shame. Like, if you feel, like, squicked out by bodily fluids, like, that is a sign of sexual shame. And like Xander said, like, you know, you don't. You don't need to, like, love it and be like, oh, my God, this is the best fluid I've ever seen in my life. Like, yeah, it's. You know, it can be a little bit sticky. It's whatever. Like, but it's just. It's normal. It's natural. It's part of sex. Sex is, yeah. Quote unquote messy. We do, you know, we need to work through the shame and embarrassment about that to recognize that that's totally normal. So I definitely want this guy to do some personal work. And I know we're talking a lot about sexual shame. We do have a separate podcast episode called something like Our Seven Step Process for Overcoming Sexual Shame. So definitely go check that out if that's coming up for you.

Boston Knot in that sexual shame.

Oh, God. We hear a lot. We hear a lot of, like, grossed out by cum from people of all genders. So if you're grossed out by cum, again, you don't need to love it. It doesn't need to be your favorite thing, but you need to recognize that it's normal, it's natural, it's part of having sex. Go listen to that episode if you're not that.

You know what's interesting, though? I. We don't ever. I don't. We don't really ever hear anyone being like, I'm so grossed out by, like, female lubrication.

Oh, no, I have.

There's women. We will hear from women that are like, oh, I don't want to. Like, I don't want to kiss him after he's gone down on me. But, like, we so rarely hear, like, oh, God, it's so gross. I hate touching.

No, that's not true.

Really?

Yeah. Women are. A lot of women are grossed out by their own discharge. No, it's. Bodily fluids are a thing all around. Everybody's ashamed of them, which is such a bummer because they're such a joy. They are. I think they're a joy.

Yeah. I think they're just wonderful. I mean, think about, think about.

So quaint. They're such a joy.

Think about, think about.

I'm delighted by cum.

Well, I mean, think about how sexy sex could be if you actually enjoyed, like, the outputs of it.

Oh, I know. Believe me, it makes a big impact for me. Like, it does. And I'm just trying to say, I just want people to at least get to the point of recognizing, like, to feel neutral about it, it's normal. But like. Like, when you can get turned on by your bodily fluids, that's like a whole other level of sex that gets unlocked for you. But let's be realistic. Let's talk about, like, baby steps here. Okay. That being said, though, I also want to honor that, like, some people just aren't there yet. There is a lot of deep seated shame and embarrassment. They need some time to work through it. So there are things that you can do to work around this. Because my hunch here is that what's happening is they're having intercourse. She's not orgasming from it, wanting to be able to have an orgasm afterwards. And he's like, no, I don't want to touch it. So to address, like, that issue, which is unfair, that's not okay.

Yeah.

So there are a bunch of different things that you could do. One of our favorite recommendations is that she should come first. Explain issues like this. If you're scared of the cum, make sure she orgasms first, and then you guys move on to intercourse or whatever it is that you want to do.

Yeah, that one is so simple.

Super simple.

Yeah. Like, I think you should be like, hey, dude, like, I think it's weird that you are so squicked out by your own cum, your own body. Because you're putting it in me.

Yeah.

Like, come on.

So condom is another one.

Yeah. So it's like, all right, dude, you got two options. Put on a fucking condom and then.

Or you could put on a glove. If she wants internal stimulation. Yeah, put on a glove.

Or, like, simple solution. Just make me come first. If you're so grossed out by your own cummings, then you got to make me come first. But I think that you can get over this.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you should feel like if you're so grossed out by your own come, you're not allowed to leave it in me.

Yeah. Like, that's great. Yeah. If you're so grossed out by that, why the fuck are you putting it in me? Like, boom, mic drop, man. Guys, we got to do better. We got to fucking do better. I'm looking at you.

Oh, no.

I'm disappointed. I'm seriously disappointed.

He is not saluting you this time.

I do not salute you. Man up.

I really want there to be a sound clip of, you don't get to put your come in me.

Man up and just touch your own cum. Dude.

This episode has gone off the rails. We're a little unhinged today. Okay, next one I could talk about come all day long, but we gotta move on.

Should we do a podcast? The come episode.

The come episode. Maybe we should let us know on Instagram.

What would we talk about, though?

How delightful it is. Okay.

The delightfulness have come.

Oh, also, you could use a toy on her too, if she. Again, if she wants internal stimulation with.

Yeah, but I doubt she does. I doubt she does.

Yeah, but yeah, you can use your finger on her clitoris without going anywhere near the cum in her vagina. Okay, another interesting one. My partner turns on his phone camera to watch me ride him through his phone screen. So he watches. He watches sex through the phone screen. This is not a. Like, I don't. My brain short circuiting. He watches them having sex through the phone screen rather than.

Is he recording or just watching? I think he's not recording. You know, you said this one earlier, and I in my mind was like, man. So he's like, he's recording every single time. Like, that's a lot of dedication. But first of all, I was like, oh, like, you're not even recording.

He's just watching.

I think he's not recording. I think he's just watching the screen.

Well, maybe he wants to zoom in. Maybe he doesn't have very good eyesight.

But his eyesight is good. Not to see.

He's doing 3X.

Enhance, enhance, enhance. Oh, my God.

If the. If the reasoning is that your eyesight is so bad you need to use 3X on your phone, you gotta put some glasses on. Sure, you can do it.

Or is he just, like, pixelated, Zach. So he zooms in all, like, all the way. Full digital zoom. Like, oh, yeah, those pixels. I can't even tell if it's me or her.

Okay, but that. That one niche situation aside, in general, what do you think? Is it okay to just watch sex through the phone rather than be with your partner?

You know, this, This. I have a lot of thoughts about this, but this, I. I feel pretty similarly to the second one we did that, like, husband won't take off his boxer. Like, he puts his penis through the hole. I think that this is a sort of, like, fetishy kinky type of thing. Like, yeah, he's getting off on the sort of, like, oh, like we're filming each other. Or like, I'm, like, I'm like, filming a porn or something like that. This is a bit on the edge of like. Like, is this. Is this just like an innocent kink? Or is this like, perhaps you've maybe watched a Bit too much porn, or you're a little, like, too into this idea, this sort of porny type of idea or something. So that might be something to kind of feel into. Just like. Yeah. Like, does your partner, like, watch a lot of porn or is into, like, stuff of, like, porn of people recording people or something? Or is this just sort of like a. Hey, I really get off on this idea of this. And this is sexy to me. So, like, the boxers one. I mean, you. The person asking this, you got to feel into is this. Like, do you just not like this at all. And you want this to stop because you have every right to be like, hey, I don't feel comfortable with this. Because also, it's like, you don't know, like, if he's recording or not. So, like, yeah, if you're down with what's happening and you're just like, is it weird that he does this all the time? Then you're well within your rights to ask, hey, can we sometimes not do that? I'd like to have your full presence, because, honestly, this is giving me vibes of, like, everyone at concerts holding their phone up, watching the concert through their phone, rather than just watching the concert, being there, present, and, like, making memories.

Because also, like, nobody's ever gonna watch. You never watch those videos ever.

I don't know. Well, is he even taking a video? Oh, the concert video. Yeah. Who the.

You're probably a little more likely to watch your sexy videos, but, like, I. I've been guilty of taking the concert videos, and I've never watched a single one back.

Well, the concert video is all about, like, having the clip to post on social. But, like, if you. I'm assuming you're not posting your, you know, your sexy videos that maybe you are or aren't recording on social. So, yeah, what the fuck is it for?

Here comes Maggie. She's interested in this conversation.

So, yeah, I really want to know, how do you feel about this? Are you okay with this? Because if you're not okay with this, then this is not okay at all. Yeah, but I also think that, I mean, there's also research how we make memories when we are recording or taking photos of something versus just being there in the moment. And very interestingly, we make far fewer memories, meaningful memories, when we are actually taking videos of things or taking photos of things when we are just, like, phone is away or we don't have it at all. We're not taking any pictures. Our memories are so much fuller and richer, and we remember them for longer and so like, if, if, you know, I get it. If this is a kink or fetish thing and he's getting a lot of enjoyment, but like, he's necessarily not as present with you in the moment.

Yeah. What bothers me about this one is it's so one sided. It's not like, hey, let's put up a tripod and record ourselves so we can watch it back later. Or like, let's pass the phone back and forth to each other so we're like recording each other. It's like him just watching by him and maybe recording by himself.

What if she also does the same thing?

So they're just recording each other.

They're both doing it. They're both recording, but they're both fake recording each other. That. That would be a vibe. And then you have a third camera filming both of you on your phones filming each other. I think that would be some real, like, meta, homemade porn. That would be great.

Okay. If I turn my husband down for sex, he'll masturbate next to me in bed while watching porn porn of us that he recorded. No.

Just kidding. Yeah. I mean, if he is. If he is wearing his boxers, put his dick through the boxers and is watching the video that he recorded of you last night, I'm all for it.

While he touches his gum.

Yeah. Well, yeah.

Okay. I have strong feelings about this one. So I think that masturbation is a great way to balance out mismatched sex drives. If you were interested in having sex and your partner was not, like your desires, your interests are valid. It makes sense. And so if you're horny and you want some sort of release, you should go masturbate. It's a great, Just a great way to like even out those mismatched sex drives. So I think that's totally fine. The doing it next to you in bed is where it gets interesting. So I think that this is something that has to be a conversation and decided on by a couple, because some people are like, I don't. Not that there's anything wrong with masturbation, that it's shameful in any way or bad or like, needs to be done in private. Like, we actually have podcast episodes and we have another one coming out soon too, about masturbating in front of each other and how it can actually be surprisingly intimate and wonderful, but it has to be something that the other person agrees to. So if you're like, I turned my husband down and now he's just there, like masturbating, like his arm is touching Me, the bed is vibrating because he's jacking it so hard.

Blaring.

Yeah, that's. You're being brought into that experience. Experience without your consent. And so I think it's very valid for the husband to masturbate and it's very valid for the partner to say, hey, I would love for you to go do that in another room. So have a conversation about it. It's totally okay for you to not want your husband to like, be right there, but just make sure you're not like shaming him about wanting to masturbate. Because again, that's very normal and very healthy. Better for him to masturbate than like pressure you to have sex or make you feel guilty or bad for not having sex. Like, those are fucked up things to do that unfortun, they happen very often. So I think he's doing a. This is a healthy outlet.

And also you get to have your own preferences and boundaries about the porn too. You didn't say in the question whether you are okay or not okay with that. But everyone should get to decide in their own relationship what your individual and joint relationship with porn looks like. If that is something that feels uncomfortable to you, then you absolutely get to tell your partner, hey, I don't feel comfortable with that.

That's a big. Yeah, that's like a whole other episode. A big thorny issue. But yeah, it's definitely like, definitely something couples need to talk about openly with each other. Like, what are our boundaries around this? And something you have to navigate together. Okay. Every time my partner and I have sex, he insists on calling me dirty names. Like, I'm okay with this every once in a while, but I don't want to be called that every single time he says that. This is a really big part of the experience for him.

This goes back to what I was saying before of like, we need to assess early on in our sex life with someone, like, whether, like the question of should. Of should I put up with this? This is something ideally that really needs to be asked very early on in the first couple of months of having sex with someone. You know, it gets a lot more challenging when it's after a number of years because at a certain point, like, you know, both members bear some responsibility for something going on for so long. You know, like, there's the person that's doing it and there's also the person that's not saying anything and kind of implicitly allowing it to happen. Yeah, if you're okay with it sometimes, but not all the time, then There needs to be a serious conversation about what the boundaries or kind of rules are around this. And I mean, yeah, what's tricky is that she also said that he said that that's a big part of sex for him. So, I mean, there has to be a kind of getting to the bottom of this. Can we. Can we continue to coexist sexually if I'm not okay with this all the time, and you may be, or at least you're put. You're. You're trying. You're starting the negotiation with, I have to have this all the time.

I think it's okay for him to say dirty talk is a big part of the experience for me. Like, I want to. You know, I want us to be able to. To talk to each other, to, like, say, you know, naughty things to each other. But for me, the difference here is that it's him calling her a whore. Like, that is a strong word. And, like, even though. Even in the context of dirty talk, like, she's allowed to say, I don't want to be called a whore.

Yeah. Is this the one word that he's passionate.

But she's saying, like, I'm okay with it every once in a while, but I just don't want to be called that every time. So, like. Yeah, but ultimately, like, I think it's valid to say, like, you're calling me a name. This is not just like, like, dirty talk. Like, oh, that feels so good, or do it harder, or something like that. This is like, you're calling me a derogatory name that. Yes. Like, it can be very sexy to call each other names like that. I'm not saying this is like a. You know, nobody should ever call somebody a in the bedroom. Like, it can totally be sexy. But I think someone gets to decide, like, I'm the one who's being called that name. So I get ultimate authority on whether or not this is actually something we do. I don't think that you can say, like. Like, as the partner, as the husband, I don't think he can say, like, it's. But it's such a part of my experience to call you a whore.

The word whore.

Yeah.

Is the cornerstone of my sex life.

Yeah. Me calling you a whore. Like, it could be me calling myself a whore. Like, I'm a dirty little. That's fine. But, like, yeah, you can't say, like, you need to let me call you a whore.

Yeah. I mean, and this is. This is actually the reason why in our Dirty talk guide, we have, like, a whole portion of it is like, you know, listing out all kind of like the full array of words that someone might use, like or slut or, you know, those type of things. Also, like the various words for different body parts and different sex acts. And we actually, you know, we suggest couples going through and kind of saying like, okay, like, I'm like, like I'm good. Like, I love this word. I hate this word. I'm like, maybe kind of in the middle on this word. So that you can each go through and understand, okay, what are areas where maybe we have some misalignment or like, you know, I, I would love to say this and I know Vanessa would really dislike hearing that, but it's also helpful because I think a lot of people haven't always considered what are the full range of words I could use for a certain thing. And it's like, I wonder if this couple were to go through that exercise if they might find, oh, there are actually like three other words that he's gonna get off saying. And I'm gonna fucking love.

Yeah.

So you guys, whoever you are out there, you should really get our Dirty Talk 101 guide and go through that because I think this could be really eye opening for you.

We'll put a link to that in the show notes for you. All right, Xander, let's bring it on home with a somewhat similar, similar theme from an earlier question. My partner likes to eat his cum after he pulls out and ejaculates on me. So he should become friends with the guy from earlier that doesn't even touch the cummin.

He needs to be the mentor and.

Be like, bro, bro, look at what's possible.

Look at what's possible.

You can get to the point where you are slurping it off your partner's body.

Slurp, slurp. I salute you, buddy. I salute you. Thank you for being open minded. I mean, yeah, there's a whole world of, well, shoot, what, what did I call it earlier? I was like, it's pleasant. I said something. You're like, oh, that's delightful. There's a whole world of delights out there. So, I mean, okay, with this one, I'm. Well, I'm. I'm curious.

The bottom is, how does the person feel?

How, yeah, how do you like, is, is this grossing you out?

Because the reality is, oh, now Chauncey's coming. He's interested in this.

I guess Chauncey likes come.

No, no.

Oh, God, that sounds. That was. I regretted that one the moment it came out.

Chauncey, I'M so sorry. You don't know anything we're talking about.

He is white, white dog.

Stop, move on.

Wow. Okay, we might need to edit that out entirely. We'll see if that ends up. God, what was I even saying?

You're talking about the delights.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, I wasn't. The reality is there's part of me that wants to be like, oh, yeah, you know, it's coming. He gets to do whatever he wants with it. The reality is he is also eating it out of you. He's off of.

Off of ejaculates on me.

Yeah. So he's also using your body for this. So if that's something that you are not enjoying. I'm just really curious, how do you feel about this? Again, I'm guessing this is going to be similar to a lot of these situations where it may be like, hey, I don't want to always do this.

But I have a guess. My guess is that the person who sent this in is a woman. And my guess is that she's worried, like, is this normal?

Or like, is he gay?

Yeah, is he gay? That's what I was getting too.

Yeah. Because gay men, gay men, like, we.

Get a lot of questions about just very normal stuff where women are like, does that mean he's gay? And I think it's, you know, we talk a lot about female sexuality in the ways that we are, like, given the short end of the stick, but there are a lot of. Of shitty, dumb misconceptions and rules for straight men too. Like, so let's just be super clear. There is nothing gay about wanting to eat your own cum. Plenty of straight dudes do it. Yeah. So there's. There's nothing gay about wanting to eat your own cum. So if that's what the main concern is, it's fine, don't worry. But if your concern is, like, I don't really like that, like, you know, my body's being used as a cum plate, then that's fine. Ask him to ejaculate on himself. Yeah, he can. Well, then.

Or like in a cup or something.

In a cup? Yeah, he can ejaculate on himself and then scoop it up with his hands and slurp it up. He can get creative. But yeah, if you don't, if you don't want to have your body used, then you can say you don't.

Yeah. But I think also try to consider. Yeah. Are you, like, worried that this says something about him? I mean, it says that he's like, pretty sexually Open minded and evolved and, and he's really enjoying.

He's having fun. He's having a blast. He thinks it's delightful.

Yeah, this is like, you know, farm to table, nose to tail cooking, you know, don't let anything go to waste. But I do think nose to tail.

Nose to head, nose to penis head.

But yeah, I mean, this is an interesting.

You're killing me today.

I mean, I know, I know that, but I know that the vast majority of men, I bet you, like 90% of men are going to be like, oh, God, that's so GROSS. Maybe like 95% of men. But I do, I just want to say, like, if we switch the genders on this one, we still get plenty of women that are like, oh, I don't want to, like, I don't want to, like, touch or taste my own, like, you know, my own discharge or my own lubrication, but it is far less taboo. The idea of, like a woman, you know, getting some of, you know, her own wetness in her own mouth, you know, through a kiss or, you know, whatever, like, or like, you know, oral.

Sex, they're both pretty taboo. But yeah, I would say, but it's much less taboo.

I mean, in porn, you see that depicted all the time. You don't, you don't see, you don't see guys like, eating ejaculate very often. So. But I, So it's just, I'm not saying that, oh, you flip the genders and it's, oh, game on. But it's much less, it's still, it's still taboo and many, and many women are not into it. But like, I feel like a lot of men, more men are probably like, oh, hell yeah, I'd love to see, you know, like, you know, it would be super hot to see her do that. And so, yeah, why would it not be hot for you to do the same thing? I don't know. Just throwing that out there.

All right, well, we're gonna have to stop here. We've gone through less than half of the submissions that we grabbed, so got more than enough for another episode.

This has been great.

I mean, truly unhinged. One of the most unhinged ones we've had in a while.

We could do this a lot.

So come on over to Instagram and let us know if you want a part two of this. We're at Vanessa and Xander. We have things like, he always tries to put his finger in my butt, even though I've told him no plenty of times. My partner only wants to have sex at night and my partner is 100% silent during sex. So let us know if you want our hot takes on those ones as well. And we will also link that Dirty Top guide for you in the show notes so you can check that out.

And if you have loved this episode as much as we loved recording it, because this was super fun, then we would love it if you could do us a solid right now. So number one, just like smash that follow button in whatever podcast platform you are on, follow us on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, that helps us so much. And if you are on Apple podcasts, please leave us a review. Give us a five star rating and leave us a review. Even if it's super short. We do a review of the week giveaway every single week. So if you hear your review read then we will give you a free prize. All you have to do is DM us on Instagram or email us@infovmtherapy.com if you hear your review read. And the reason for that is just just reviews go so far in helping other people find our podcast. The more reviews that we have, the more great reviews that we have, the more people see us and go, oh, this is a legit podcast. They are, they are funny people that do weird episodes like this where they talk about coming, you know, dicks through boxers and farts. So you know, you gotta, you gotta normalize this weird stuff. So anyway, I'm talking to myself in a circle.

Leave us a review.

Leave us a review. Even if it's really simple. That helps us so much.

Love, Vanessa and Xander. I haphazardly came across the Pillow Talks podcast. Perfect example.

Yes.

People finding it randomly because of reviews. Okay, haphazardly came across it. Gave them a listen about three months ago. I've been hooked ever since. I love the content and have learned so much from this great couple. They feel like friends that I haven't met yet. I love how they take serious topics and break them down on how to make yourself and your relationship better. They also add humor to each episode, which is a great reminder to be playful when it comes to marriage and relationships. I look forward to each new episode release and really love their Instagram posts and stories as well. Everyone should give them a listen. Even if you think you know it all and have nothing to learn. I promise you will learn new techniques that will be beneficial inside and outside the bedroom. Keep up the great work. Vnx. I'm thankful I found you. Thank you so much for this delightful review.

All right. And with that, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we ask, is this Che?