Episode 18: How To Get That New Relationship Energy Back

The reality of a lot of long term relationships is that we spend a lot of time in each other's presence, but we're not often present. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with 20 years.

Of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

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I love it. Okay, so today we are talking about dating your partner.

But I don't want to date anymore. Like, that's what we did at the beginning of our relationship. Like, haven't I. Haven't I won you over already?

Is that how you feel? No. Well, actually, that's sort of an interesting question that we go on a little side tangent before we even fully begin. Do you have positive associations with the word dating?

I don't. I guess personally, I kind of have neutral to not really any associations with dating. I guess you and I both, we started dating and became a couple really at the very beginning of online dating being a thing. It wasn't really socially acceptable yet. And so at least for me, I never. I don't really consider myself as ever really having dated.

Really.

Like, I went to. I went to a very small college. There was a lot of hooking up that happened, but not very many people dated because everyone knew each other. So it's kind of like you, like, went to a party and you hooked up with somebody or you were in a relationship with someone. As far as I know, like, none of my friends were dating. Like, it was in a small town. There wasn't really that much to do. Everything happened on campus. All the parties and stuff happened on campus. So, like, there wasn't really an opportunity to date.

Yeah.

And then I got out of school and we met fairly soon after that. So I just, I can't really say I personally ever dated.

Interesting. So I actually want our listeners to come over to instagram find us at Vanessa Marin Therapy and shoot us a DM and let us know. Do you have positive associations with the word dating or negative. Negative associations.

I would venture, I'd venture a guess. Not that many people have positive associations because it's a stressful thing. Like if I'm just trying to put myself in other people's shoes, it's this stressful thing. Whether it was in the pre app dating era or the post app dating era. It doesn't sound like fun. Like the fun part seems like when you are having success at dating and you're maybe moving away from dating and towards a relationship, possibly, but it's just, it seems generally stressful, like reaching out to people, being vulnerable, maybe getting rejected, having uncertainty around how a date is going to go, putting all this effort into planning, not really knowing like what the return is going to be on that effort and planning.

Yeah, I mean, so today's episode is all about, you know, how to date your partner. And it's based on the assumption that we heard from a lot of people in our community that they want to feel like they're still dating their partner. Like even in a long term relationship, they want to feel pursued by their partner. So maybe that's even a simple change that we can make is like instead of talking about it as dating, talk about it as pursuing. Like, does pursuing have more of a positive connotation to you?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's also as a, as a guy, that's kind of tough because I hear that word and I sometimes think about those people, not me, but other people that really like heavily pursue someone. I kind of see there this sort of like, I don't know, sort of like dark side of the masculine energy.

That'S like alpha male.

Yeah, like, like the over pursuer.

Yeah.

Or you know, the guy who, who loves the chase.

The pickup artist.

Yeah, the pickup artist. To me it just feels like that's not who I want to be.

So I think our first tip here is that we need a better word for this. Something about it's maybe not dating, maybe not pursuing, but some other sort of word. So basically, you know, what we've been hearing from our community is that a lot of people in long term relationships and to be completely honest and vulnerable, like we've gone through this in our own relationship as well. Like when you've been together with somebody for years, decades, like you can definitely go through phases where you start to feel like you're more like roommates than, you know, romantic partners or Maybe your parents and you feel like it's like we're battling a war with the kids, so we're like on the same team, but there's no sense of, like, romance. And so a lot of people reported that they want to feel actively desired by their partner.

Actively desired. Like, that sounds good. I'm not going to be like, no, that sounds horrible.

Yeah. So maybe there's some variation of that word that we can use, this idea of desiring each other. Like, we want to feel wanted by each other. And I think another piece of that is we don't want to feel taken for granted either. Like our partner, you know, I don't want you assuming, like, I locked her down, put a ring on it, and now I don't ever have to, like, do anything for her ever again, you know, So I don't want to feel. I don't want to feel taken for granted. I want to feel like you still know every single day what you have, how lucky you are to have me, and that you're willing to make some sort of effort to, like, to keep me in a way.

Yeah.

So we did our usual Instagram polls about this topic. The first question that we asked was, do you and your partner make a conscious and consistent effort to date each other? And only 43% of couples said yes. We got a ton of DMS in response to this poll of people just saying, like, oh, my gosh, I don't even remember the last time we went on a date. I don't remember the last, like, nice thing that we've done for each other. We also asked, do you believe that couples in long term relationships should try to date each other? And a whopping 98% of people said yes.

Yeah, we were actually thinking that we were gonna need to spend some time on this podcast giving you the hard sell on why you should say, convincing you why you should want to date each other.

But we don't. But it actually made us curious. So we ended up posting a follow up question the next day. Our Instagram audience is pretty heavily female and we were wondering if there was a gender dynamic around this. So particularly with heterosexual couples, is it that, like, the women are all on board with this idea, but maybe the men aren't? So we posted this follow up. We said, if you have a male partner, does he think that he should still pursue you? 64% said yes. There's some discrepancy there. It seems like maybe more women in heterosexual relationships are on board with this idea of, like, wanting to be pursued Wanting to be dated. And maybe the men have a harder time getting on board with this idea. Although I will say I got a handful of, like, very impassioned DMs in response to that from men saying, I want my wife to pursue me more or my girlfriend to pursue me more. So, you know, definitely people of all genders who are desiring this. We're all on. A lot of us are on board with it philosophically, but we're just not really doing it.

Yeah. I think there's something to be said for everyone wanting to feel that desire, that active pursuit, that wanting to be wanted from their partner. I think that's super important. And I think the other. The other thing that all these polls kind of brought up for me is there may be a discrepancy in terms of a partner thinking, like, yeah, I want to be actively pursued. I want to, you know, I want to be dating my partner always. And there may be a discrepancy where, like, each partner feels like they are pursuing the other, but maybe they're pursuing each other in a way that is being missed by the other. I think there's a lot of opportunity for just discussion around, like, how much are we doing this? How. How do we think we are doing this for each other? And are there ways in which maybe we're pursuing someone in a way that, you know, isn't really being picked up?

Kind of like a body language thing, like, yeah, pursuing me in a way that, like, doesn't feel. Feel like pursuing to me.

Yeah. And I think we'll talk about this a little bit later on, but just kind of around, a lot of us default to, like, oh, if. If I need to date my partner, you immediately go to, well, what are the things that we did early on in our relationship? And the reality is, over time, as we grow and we mature and we change, like, the things that we did in the first six months of our relationship may not be things that we love like, six years into our relationship. So I think it's important to just talk about, like, how are we pursuing each other? How do we like to be pursued? Like, what would be an. What would be exciting types of dates for us to go on now? And, like, let's talk about what it is we want rather than assuming that it's supposed to be the way that it was or that, like, I have a certain way that I want to be pursued and so I pursue you in that way.

Yeah. The other dynamic that it makes me curious about is maybe, are there a lot of Couples who are kind of waiting for the other partner to go first. I want you to pursue me and to desire me, and so I'm waiting for you to do that, whereas your partner is like, well, I want you to pursue me and desire me. So I'm waiting for you to do that.

And we see that so much. Like, when it comes to initiating sex and stuff, too, it's so easy to fall into this trap of just like, I tried to initiate last time, so I'm going to wait until they do, and then you talk to the other person and they're like, oh, no, like, I didn't initiate, or like, you know, they think the other person didn't initiate, and it's a whole disaster.

Yeah. So we're going to get into this in a lot more detail, but before we dive in deeper, let's do the review of the week.

All right, so our review of the week is about our episode from August 12, which was letting your partner love your body. Wow. The part about the man saying he's so attracted to his wife because that's the body that gave him his children and the one that teaches the kids. It made me so emotional. I immediately teared up and cried for a bit there. It made my heart so warm and really hit me that my husband most likely sees me the same way. I definitely have an issue with loving my belly pooch and my saggy boobies. Thanks for starting this conversation. Are these tearing up eyes and hearts?

That's pretty good.

I think it's just starting to cry. Hearts.

Very good.

Just starting to cry. Tears of love.

Oh, wow. He's getting poetic now.

I'm getting better about this.

Well, we love getting your reviews. Seriously. They bring a big smile to our face every single time we see a new one.

I love misreading them and misreading your emojis.

Yes. So if you haven't heard us talk about this yet, we do have a contest for reviews. It's just our way of saying thank you. We know it takes time to write a little review. And so basically, if you write a review, send us a screenshot of it in Instagram vanessamoran Therapy, and we'll enter you into a giveaway to win free advice from us. So what you can do if you're the winner is you can send us over your question or tell us about your situation, and we will send you a personalized audio or video message back, give you some really concrete, specific advice, tips, suggestions, exercises, the whole thing. So once you submit a review, you are eligible to win every single week going forward.

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Thank you. All right, so let's get back into it. I feel like we already got, like, several tips already.

We already got into it, but now we can.

Now we can get into our official tips, but for how to pursue your partner. So Xander mentioned this idea of kind of, like, looking to the past for inspiration. He was talking about maybe the things that you used to in the beginning of the relationship. You know, these aren't things that are as meaningful to you anymore.

But, yeah, this could go either way.

Yeah. There may be ones that still are really meaningful to you. So you could kind of think a little bit about, like, how did you two court each other? What are your favorite dating memories with each other? What do you miss? So that's your opportunity to feel into, like, yeah, we did do this at the beginning and I didn't love it or know I wouldn't like it as much now or, yeah, we did those things in the beginning of our relationship, and I love them and I miss them. I want my partner to do it again.

Yeah. I think people fall into kind of two common traps. On the one side, you do all this stuff early on in your relationship, and then you kind of follow that. That dynamic that we kind of see a bit in movies and in books and stuff where it's like, once we get serious, like, once we commit to each other, once we get married, once we move in, we don't need to do this stuff. Like, we're committed to each other. Like, I don't need to pursue my partner anymore. I think this is a really, like, heteronormative kind of, like, masculine dynamic of like, oh, I've already won her over. I don't need to do any of this stuff anymore.

Yeah.

Like now. Now we just kind of go back to living a life or something like that that doesn't include all of this stuff. So it's easy to forget about all the fun stuff that you used to do or just, you know, all the exciting stuff that you used to do at the beginning. So that's on one side, and then the other side, you think, oh, yeah, well, dating equals that stuff that we used to do. And the reality is neither of you or one of you is not really enjoying those things anymore. And so it's easy to kind of fall into this place of, oh, well. Well, like, we can't do that because I don't like it anymore. We can't do that because, like, I've already won her over. So there's, like, nothing left to do.

Absolutely. Okay, so another idea is just to use the word date, like, calling it a date. Remember just a couple weeks ago, even Xander, out of nowhere, just kind of came up to me and was like, hey, do you want to go on a date with me on Saturday? And I just blushed. I mean, I'm blushing now just recalling that. Like, it was just sweet to be asked out on a date again. So I think this is such a simple technique that you can use, but I think it can have a surprisingly big impact.

Yeah, it can be just some good practice getting vulnerable in a pretty low stakes way. Like, you know, you guys are already together, you love each other. Hopefully it's pretty easy. Yes. Like, yes, let's go on this date. It's, you know, someone says, no, I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, it's not, you know, it's not like stressing out about, like, asking your prom date to go to the prom with you senior year, and you're like, oh, my God, is she gonna say yes? I don't know.

Yeah. And I think also this could be an opportunity, like if you guys have some sort of funny inside joke, like maybe there was a silly way that you initially asked each other out on a first date or a follow up date or whatever. It was like, this could just be a good opportunity to be playful with each other. Our next tip is to get ready for your dates. So I think that this is one of the fun things about the early stages of a relationship is that, like, you could spend so much time thinking about the date, getting ready for the date, getting into the mood, getting your energy right. And it's just so rare that we do that these days. You know, when you're in a long term relationship, taking that time to get excited about being with each other.

Hearing you say that is making me feel a little guilty because when we go on dates, I maybe run upstairs to like, put some pants on, like five minutes before we're supposed to leave. Let's be real. It's actually like right when we were supposed to leave, and then we walk out the door five minutes late because I'm like throwing a new shirt on and then like maybe putting some product in my hair, and that's it. I could for sure, Stan. I could, you know, maybe set an alarm and get ready like half an hour before, make sure I'm looking real good.

Okay. Another idea that we had was to kind of think a little bit about how did you talk to each other when you were dating or in the early stages of your relationship? So I think a lot of people in the. That early communication, like, they were really flirty with each other, maybe a lot of innuendos going back and forth, a lot of compliments, so kind of being more flirty with each other in that way. A totally different kind of subtopic under this one is the idea of, like, really asking your partner questions. You know, I think that's such an interesting part of dating is like trying to get to know that person better. Obviously, the small talk of, like, so do you have any siblings? Where are you from? Like, that's not very fun. But once you. You're in that, like, I don't know, maybe like four to six date zone, where you're starting to dig into things a little bit better. I remember in the early stages of us dating, like, I was just endlessly fascinated with everything that you said, you know, wow. So I think trying to, you know, trying to bring back some of that attitude. Obviously there's a lot more that you know about your partner now, so you're not going to be able to ask those, you know, same sorts of questions, but like, still this idea of trying to ask more meaningful questions than just like, how was your day?

Yeah. I think that we fall into this trap of thinking that we know our partner, like, a hundred percent. It's like, oh, we've been together for however many years, like, I know this person, like, entirely. You're never going to know someone entirely. And even if you did, the reality is so many things that we think do change over time, like, there's some stuff that isn't going to change. They grew up in the same town, they have the same number of siblings. But all the, like, intellectual stuff, the stuff that we believe in, the, you know, perspective that we have on politics, on social issues, on friends or whatever, like, all of these things change over time. So it's not like you learn everything about someone early on in your relationship, and then you're just out of stuff to talk about. There's always new stuff to talk about. There's. There's new things happening in the world that you can talk about and like, hey, what do you think about this that just happened in across the country? Or blah, blah, blah.

So next up we want to talk about this idea of being present with each other. So this kind of piggybacks off of that, like those deeper, more meaningful conversations. Like when you had those kinds of talks earlier in your relationship, like, you probably felt very present with each other. Like I just said, you know, I felt like really fascinated by Xander's answers. And so I think the reality of a lot of long term relationships is that we spend a lot of time in each other's presence, but we're not often present. That was such a powerful thing in those early stages of dating is like really being able to feel somebody, you had their full attention. That's so captivating and it makes you feel so cared for. You know, one of the main complaints that we hear about from long term couples is phones. It's like, oh, my partner is always just stuck in their phone. Or like, you know, we're trying to have a conversation, but my partner's scrolling through something. There's a really viral reel that's going around Instagram right now about, like the top four things that men do when they lose interest in their partner is number one is he spends more time on his phone than talking to you. And it's like all these women, you know, showing their guys on their phone and the guy kind of like sheepishly looks over and then goes back to the phone. That really is such a huge thing is if we feel like not even important enough to our partner to get their full attention.

That really is a shortcut to the roommates vibe.

Oh, absolutely.

It's interesting. I think about right when we started dating was, I think the first iPhone came out maybe in the year that we started dating. I don't think either of us really had a proper smartphone or until maybe like year three or four of our relationship. At least a smartphone where you could, like, do a lot of things and actually get like, totally engrossed in it. Back then, it was hard to be in someone's presence without being present. Like, unless you were like reading a book or something like that. Yeah, there's definitely something to be said for the way that technology distracts us. And, you know, it helps us out in so many ways. It helps us be in more communication, like throughout the day. But I think it's just an important thing to keep in mind as, you know something that you can easily kind of slip into a distraction zone, so to speak, when you are in each other's presence.

Yeah. Okay. So we went over to Instagram again and we asked people, like, okay, if you feel like you do actively date or pursue your partner. What are the specific things that you do to do that? Because we wanted to give you some concrete ideas. By far, the number one response was having some sort of regular date night. People usually did either weekly or monthly date nights. So one person said, we set a firm night of the week as date night. No exceptions, Bad things happen if you make other plans.

Nothing like a good old fashioned threat.

Date night. It's obvious. You know, that's an obvious suggestion here of how to date your partner. Have a date night. But we do think that you can take this to the next level by trying to do new and creative things for your dates. So for the two of us, we tend to default to going out to dinner. And like, yep, we love dinner, we love food. It's always a good time. But it's hard to get super excited about going out to dinner if that's always the date that you're doing. So we've actually had this interesting experience in this pandemic of being in lockdown, not being able to go out to restaurants. And we did a bunch of lockdown dates that ended up being some of the most creative dates that we've done. One that sticks out to me is we made ravioli one night, like, like six different flavors. I think we went a little bananas.

Yeah, yeah. We. We prepped, like, all of. I think. No. Vanessa actually came to me with like, all of these ingredients, and it was. She gave me like a list of possible fillings.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, I printed it out.

She printed out a menu of filling options that we had the capability to prepare. I think I picked like six of them. And then we made those fillings and we made the ravioli, we made the.

Dough, we stuffed them, we cooked like it was whole ordeal.

Oh, and it was so worth it. When they were ready, it was delicious. We also. That was like, oh, well over a year. I think that was very early in the pandemic. And I think we just like a month ago ate the last couple of raviolis from the freezer.

It was pretty fun. So that's like an idea, you know, it's not something that was. It didn't take like a ton of money. It wasn't super fancy, but it was so fun and it created a memory that we're really going to cherish. You know, look back on another idea that we got from Instagram was one person said, every month we trade off who is responsible for planning date night. It's very easy with date night to just be like, you want to go get sushi? Okay, yeah, sure, whatever, you know, and it doesn't feel very exciting, but if you take turns with it. And we did this during all of lockdown, too. We traded off every week, but you could do it every month if that feels better to you. But it just felt like we got to get surprised by our partner. And we got this experience of like, oh, man, he came up with this idea. This is so fun. Was thinking of me. Or he planned this. You know, making date night actually be an effort, be a surprise rather than just a like, yeah, let's go to that restaurant that we always go to.

And trading off also kind of gets at that thing we mentioned early on of like, each person in a partnership gets to feel wanted because, you know, you're trading off, taking responsibility for planning and kind of executing the date.

And another cute little idea that somebody suggested on Instagram that we actually do as well is doing like a month anniversary date night. So our anniversary is on the 15th, so the 15th of every month. We try to, like, acknowledge it and just do a little something. So if you're somebody where, you know, maybe a monthly date night just feels more doable for you guys at this point, like, that could be just a fun, sweet little way to also acknowledge and honor your relationship. Okay, this next idea that I want to share with you really made me laugh when I got it. So this person said that they and their partner celebrate popsicle Thursdays. It's Thursdays with a P. Popsicle Thursdays Thursday. And I just laughed so hard when I saw that. Like, it's obviously this funny little inside joke that the two of them have come up with. Like, I don't know why they picked popsicles. I don't know why there's popsicles.

Could be oral sex.

Why can't it just be Popsicle third? Oh, oral sex. I didn't even think about that.

It took you a second.

But anyways, it was just like, such a funny little thing. And so I think if you can come up with stuff that feels like a funny inside joke, a funny tradition that the two of you have that just makes it feel special. And again, like, for this person, they're just talking about popsicles. Oral sex, I guess. Person who submitted this, please reach back out to us at vanessamaran Therapy and let us know. You know, it's not something that's really elaborate or expensive or time consuming or anything like that, but it's probably something that, like, just makes them laugh every time they do it.

And so, Vanessa, what would be your go to Popsicle for popsicle Thursdays? What's your popsicle of choice?

I don't really love popsicles. I don't know, I'm just like, I'll eat fruit instead. I don't know.

But you need a palette.

A fancy palette. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe like mango. Mango is always good. Frozen mango or coconut. I could do a coconut. Coconut. Mango.

See, I remember from elementary school those, like, push up pot, like push pops.

Oh, yeah.

It was sort of like part popsicle, part ice cream. It might have just been, I think. No, I think it was like sherbet or something like that. I was basically not allowed to have ice cream when I was a kid. I was kind of lactose intolerant. Like, I got a runny nose from milk and then when I turned like 12 or 13, it just kind of disappeared. Who knows? I may not have actually ever been lactose intolerant. For some reason, those push up pops, like, I was allowed to eat them and they were for sure milk bulky, but they were good.

Great. Okay, so you'd go for a push pop.

Yeah, sure. For all time's sake.

Bring back popsicle for Thursdays.

Push Popsicle Thursday.

All right. Another category that came up a lot in these responses was just being flirty with each other. And we talked about this a bit earlier, but sending, like, flirty texts, flirty emails, flirty pictures back and forth, like, just bringing back some of that excitement. Because I think, you know, a lot of times in relationships, the conversation that we're having, they're kind of boring, they're kind of transactional. They're really creating that feeling of like, this is just a roommate relationship or a, you know, partner relationship, but not like romantic or romantic partner. Another big one was trips away together. And we are huge fans of this. We think that couples going on some sort of trip alone, just the two of them, even if you have kids, kids do not go along with you. But having that alone time away from your regular lives, away from all your stresses and responsibilities and work and whatever it is. And, you know, so obviously this one, you could make it as elaborate as you wanted to. But, you know, I think for a lot of people, it's just tricky to do. So even if it's like we're just going to have a night in an Airbnb in our town and the kids go with their grandparents, you know, you can get an Airbnb in some places for like 100 bucks or something like that, you know, it doesn't. Or, you know, an inexpensive hotel or a little BNB or, you know, something like that. You don't have to spend a ton of money. That kind of time together is invaluable. It's worth investing into. It's worth spending whatever money you can afford to spend on it. There was one person in particular who said, we always have something on the calendar to look forward to. And I love that, because even if it's like, we can only afford to do this once a year, like. Like, plan it. Plan that once a year and have it on the calendar so you can, like, count down to that together. So I think that's such a great idea.

Another huge thing is start planning the next one before you even go on, like, the current one. So that way, it's like, you always have something on the calendar. I think the trap a lot of us fall into is, like, we kind of go all in on planning a vacation, and then, you know, the tail end of the. Of the vacation. I feel like, at least for Vanessa and me, we always look at each other, and it's like, oh, so, like, where's our next trip gonna be? And then you get home, you're like, okay, well, we just went. We just went on a trip, so I'm not really gonna think about this for a while. And then, like, a while goes by, and how nice would it be to just, like, have the next one already lined up? Even if it's a long way off, Having something on the calendar builds that anticipation. Just like we were saying with dating, you know, having the anticipation, getting ready early, like, early in the day helps build that anticipation. It's just. Anticipation is good in general for this type of stuff.

Yeah.

And the final thing I want to say about that. Even if you can't go away for a night, if that's too logistically challenging. Vanessa and I, especially throughout the pandemic, did a lot of kind of just, like, day road trips, like, to. To nearby places that are maybe, like, an hour and a half, two hours away. And that's like a. That's a nice thing. That's a super nice thing just to get away. Go to a town, a beach, a mountain, whatever. That's, like, far enough away from you that it feels like you're in a different place, but you're still close enough to home you can drive back that night, go to sleep in your own bed. It's a really. It can be a super nice getaway, even if it's just during the day.

Yeah, absolutely. We Also want to say some people mentioned the 30 day sex challenge.

Thank you, people.

Which we were very honored to see. A bunch of people said it just made them feel like, like they were still dating each other. Exploring new things in the bedroom together. I think in particular, like that idea of trying novel things in the bedroom that brings back that early relationship energy because that's what you were doing is like exploring in the bedroom together for the first time and so trying little things. And I think that's what is nice about the 30 day sex challenge is that it'll give you new things to try, but they're not anything that's like really wild or overwhelming. Like, we really designed it for couples who might be a little bit on the shy side or feel kind of nervous about trying new things in the bedroom. Like, we wanted it to feel manageable but still exciting.

And there's two options for every day. So you're not going to be forced into doing anything or even feel like, oh, well, this is. They're telling me I'm supposed to do this today, so I have to do this. It's like you're going to have two options. One of them is more of a sensual or a touch based challenge, and one is a sexual challenge. Sexual does not mean intercourse necessarily. There's a whole range of things that we include in those. But yeah, check out the challenge. We'll have a link to purchase the challenge in the show notes.

Finally, the last tip that we want to talk about. This may be the most important one and it's this idea of gratitude. So if I think about my own experience about wanting to feel pursued, actively wanted, a huge thing that comes up for me is just wanting to know that Xander appreciates what a catch he has. What a lucky man he has.

What a lucky man he has. Yeah, I got a lucky guy. I caught a lucky man.

I'm real lucky. I'm a handsome boy and a lucky man.

Wow.

So, yeah, I mean, going back to this idea of gratitude, I think that that's, you know, what we really want to feel from our partner. We want to feel that they feel lucky. They feel lucky to have us. And so if both you and your partner can make an active effort to think about the things that you're grateful for about each other and to express those things as well.

So especially when you're on a date.

Yeah, yeah. Just being able to share, you know, it doesn't need to be a grand gesture. It can be those little moments. But like telling your partner, even if it's just a sentence like, I feel so lucky to be with you, to have you in my life. I think that those moments can make such a big difference, and it can make a big difference for you to be actively thinking about the things that you're grateful for about your partner, too. And maybe this kind of comes back to what we started the episode off with, this idea of, like, maybe sometimes partners are kind of at a standstill, like, waiting for each other to make that first move. If you're making that effort to think about your partner and the things that you're grateful for about them, like, maybe that'll help you get out of that standstill.

All right, so then let's get into some listener questions. We got a lot of questions like this. So here are three that were kind of similar. How do you do it with young kids? Ways to date if you don't have a babysitter, or what do you do when you can't afford to date or spend any money?

I think that first, what I want to start with, with these is kind of a mindset shift.

Yeah.

I think that a lot of us approach challenges in life with this idea of, like, I can't do this because of xyz. We definitely do not want to downplay the challenges that people have in life. Like, there are a lot of people who can't afford. You know, I just said, like, a few minutes ago, like, yeah, a lot of Airbnbs are, like, only 100 bucks for a lot of people. That's completely unaffordable for a lot of people. You know, they're struggling with so much stuff around raising kids or being caretakers. Like, we've all got stuff that is going on for us that I think that it can be really useful for us to think about. Like, I have this on my plate, and how do I make this happen? So rather than this, like, I can't do it, it's like, how do I make it happen given the circumstances that I have?

There's always going to be a reason why you can't do something. Is there something else that you can do? So, like, to get back to the one about, like, when you can't afford to do it, the question is, there's an assumption there. To date, I need to spend money.

And you don't.

And you don't. And also ways to date, if you don't have a babysitter, that implies that you must leave the house to go on a date, you don't have to leave the house. We gave an example of A way that Vanessa and I went on a ravioli making date from the confines of our own home.

Yeah. So I think that once we make that mindset shift, this is an opportunity for us to get creative and say, okay, this is the situation that I've got. How do I get creative and make this dating thing happen? So there are tons of ways that you can make your partner feel loved and appreciated that don't cost any money. So you could cook dinner together at home. You could write little love notes to each other. You could go on a walk or a drive or something like that. Like, you don't have to spend any money to, like, have quality time with each other. The idea of, like, you know, having kids, maybe there is a family in the neighborhood that you could swap with where, you know, for one night, they watch all the kids and you guys get to have a date. And then the next week or the next month or whatever, you know, you watch all of the kids. So, you know, obviously this is not going to work for everybody, but I think in everybody's unique situation, if you really try to get creative and think like, okay, this is something that's important to me, we want to make it happen. Yes. We have these challenges on our plate, and how do we find creative ways to make it happen?

Yeah. And remind yourself that the way that you date doesn't have to be the way that you used to date. I think so many. The assumption in all of these questions is, well, I can't do the thing that I used to do. So instead of thinking about what you can't do, let's think about what can you do that's maybe different from something that you've done before? All right, next question. How do you date when everything else seems more important? Might this one be a mindset shift as well?

I think it could be. Absolutely. You know, when we have a lot on our plate, and a lot of us do have an awful lot on our plates these days, when we have a lot on our plate, it feels like our relationship is just the easiest thing to slide onto the back burner. And I think that that's exactly what gets us into this problem, is that we start to feel like my partner totally takes me for granted. My partner makes no effort to show me their love, their affection, their caring for me. And the reality is, when our relationships aren't in a good place, it affects everything else in our lives. Like, our relationships can have a huge impact on everything else. And again, it's so easy to fall into this trap of like, yeah, I've got work and I've got financial stuff and I've got health stuff. So the relationship's got to go on the back burner. But the negative energy that's going to build up from that, it's going to affect every other area of your life, and it's going to feel heavy and it's going to drag you down. And so, again, I think this is focusing on, yes, I've got XYZ on my plate, and how do I make this happen? Because our relationships cannot survive without us putting a little bit of active effort into them.

I am also going to venture a guess. I'm not going to adventure a guess.

Adventure a guess.

I'm going to venture a guess that the person asking this question has likely not asked the same question or had a discussion about this with their partner. Because I know personally, I have fallen into this trap before in my life. Other things must be more important. And this is a real easy idea to have. When you don't verbalize it to anybody else. You can be like, oh, well, I need to make money, so therefore, I need to work these extra hours because money must be more important because I'm providing for the family or something like, that's just a random example if you can actually have this conversation with your partner of like, hey, you know, I was listening to this podcast. They were talking about how important it is to keep dating your partner sort of throughout your relationship. I was listening to it. It sounded like good advice, but it just really worried me because it feels like we don't have the ability to do that because all these other things going on are more important. Like, what do you think about that? I bet you if you kind of put dating out there as one of the things on the list of, you know, amongst this list of other important things, and you run that by your partner and you kind of prioritize it all together. You probably won't both agree, okay, yeah, we just don't ever want to spend time with each other because all this other stuff is so important. It's just so easy to push the relationship to the back burner in our own head. But once we talk about it together, I think it's unlikely that both of you are going to end up really thinking that. How do you get your partner on board with dating? He gets defensive when I bring it up.

Oh, interesting. So this one makes me think about, like, how is that person requesting this and what is it that the partner is hearing? The bottom line is, like, when you're asking to date your partner and pursue your partner and have them date and pursue you. Like, this is a really positive, beautiful thing. Like, you're saying to your partner, like, I love you. I value you. I want you to follow, feel how much I love you. I want you to feel how much I want to be with you, how lucky I feel to be with you. There's nothing to get defensive about that. Like, who. Who's gonna say, like, no, how dare you? How dare you want to love me? So there's gotta be some sort of miscommunication that's happening, you know? Of course, whenever we're making requests of our partner, we always want to try to frame those requests in positive ways. Actively asking for something positive, rather than saying, you're not doing this, or, I'm so upset with you for not doing this.

Yeah. Or like, you need to plan a date for me.

You never plan dates anymore. Yeah. So I'm not. I don't want to assume that this person is, like, you know, going in hot with it, but just. I think that's general good advice to follow. I would get curious, like, so if the partner starts to get defensive, I would reiterate, I'm kind of curious about your reaction. Like, what is this stirring up for you? Because for me, what I'm trying to express to you is, like, love and care for you and wanting to keep this excitement and happiness in our relationship. So what is it that you're hearing and ask that in an open way, not in a, like, what the hell are you hearing? You know, kind of thing. But see, like, what is it that's getting stirred up for your partner? I mean, my guess would be maybe your partner's feeling overwhelmed. Maybe they're feeling like, I'm just drowning with everything that I've got going on right now. I feel like I'm not doing a good job in any area of my life. And like. Like, here's another thing that I'm not doing a good job at.

It sounds like the person might be thinking the last question, which is, I can't do this because everything else is more important. It sounds like they're keeping that inside. And so then when they see their partner requesting, like, I would like to do this thing that I feel like I have way more important things, but I've not ever shared that with anyone, then it would make perfect sense that you react defensively.

Yeah. So this could be a really great opportunity for the two of you to, like, you know, have this deeper conversation of, like, hey, look, yeah, we know that we've got a lot on our plates, but we love each other and we care about each other, and we really want to make this work and, you know, make this feel exciting and fun and new again. So, like, how do we work together as a team rather than feeling like, you know, we're on different sides of it?

Kind of think critically about how gender dynamics have played a role in your relationship in the past or how they are playing a role currently in your relationship. Person asking this question said he gets defensive when I bring it up. So what this makes me wonder is, early on in your relationship, did you have a very kind of gendered or stereotypical type of relationship where he was responsible for, like, paying for dates, for planning dates, for pursuing you, and you didn't have any responsibility for that? Because I think, you know, lesser. Just be honest. Like, that is a real dynamic in our society, and that maybe is becoming less of a dynamic, but it's changing quickly. So, like, 10 years ago, for example, that was much more the norm than it is now. He may be thinking of those times and being like. And when he hears, like, hey, I would like us to, like, go on more dates, he's hearing, I need to do something for you, and maybe falling into that, kind of thinking of, like, oh, well, we're already married. We're already together, we're already committed. I. I already paid for all that, already put all that effort in. Like, I don't need to do that anymore. So if that's what's going on, if you look back and you see that kind of did describe our relationship in the past, one idea would be, why don't you just plan something nice for him, like, as a kind of a goodwill gift to him, like, hey, like, I want to show you that, like, the way that we did it in the past is not the way that we need to do it now. So that. That's one idea. And then the other idea, the other side of this is that if you. The person asking the question is still thinking in that context, he needs to plan dates for me, and I don't need to do anything. I think this is an opportunity for you to kind of look at gender dynamics and, like, is this the type of relationship you want to have? Where, like, what is your responsibility in the relationship? Or what is your responsibility for keeping stuff fresh and exciting and interesting, and do you have any responsibility for pursuing your part partner?

Yeah.

All right, so the final question. How to get my partner to take the initiative? He says he's Happy to do whatever I want. I want him to come up with new ideas.

Oh, this is like the mental load of dating your partner. Yeah. Your partner's like, yeah, just tell me what you need me to do to help out around the house. And you're like, nah, it's like the.

Classic, like, what do you want for dinner? Oh, I don't know. I'll have whatever.

Yeah. So, yeah, the whatever you want sounds like a really nice response. Like they're just being so flexible and going with the flow, but the reality is that then that puts all the pressure on you to come up with things, and that's just not a fair dynamic to have.

Yeah. And it kind of is this weird implication. The other person clearly has all of these preferences because the other person's, oh, yeah, whatever you want, because that implies you have a very specific thing that you want. So I can see how if I heard you say that to me, I might kind of take offense. I'm like, I'm not a super demanding person. I don't have these strong preferences. Like, what are you saying, Sanders?

List of dates.

Yeah. It's like been testing you and you chose the wrong date.

Oh, wow.

Vanessa kind of like that. She gets us, like, disciplinary, funny, like, googly eyed thing occasionally.

I'm in trouble.

Yeah. But okay, okay, I. I have a really quick idea for this one. I mean, we already gave this tip. Switch off planning dates. That solves this problem. Just done.

Yeah, that's definitely the advice that I would give here as well, is tell your partner, hey, I think it'd be really fun if we switch off dates and then you can spend some time together as a team brainstorming dates. Because sometimes people are like, I don't need. Like, I'm not creative. I don't really know. So you could kind of be a team in brainstorming some dates together, but then you take turns, like, being the person who's responsible for setting it up.

Yeah. Picking it and executing it.

Yeah. But definitely split it up. You guys both have to contribute to this. This. All right, so we have a quick question for you as we wrap up this episode. We've been thinking about doing a connection challenge. So, like we mentioned, we have this 30 day sex challenge. We will put the link to check that out in the show notes. But we've also been thinking about doing something more like a connection challenge where it's more focused on emotional intimacy rather than physical intimacy. So we're really curious to know, does this sound interesting to you? So send us a DM on Instagram. Vanessa Marin Therapy. Let us know if you would be interested in doing a connection challenge with your partner. Where basic idea would be that it would give you specific things that you could do with your partner. It would take just a couple of minutes. You know, nothing really overly involved, but this idea of, like, having some sort of emotional connection every day for, like, seven, 14, 30 days.

Yeah. Whether it's doing something together, whether it's a prompt, like a discussion prompt or whatever. Planning something for the other person.

Yeah. So let us know what you think about that. All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. And join us again next week when we talk about having sex with someone new. Ooh. Oh. I'm gonna try it out this weekend, and I'll report back with my best tips. Xander's face is like. He's not sure whether to laugh, but maybe not laugh. Now he's covering his face.

I'm like. I'm, like, wondering if other people are gonna find this funny, if they're gonna be concerned. What? What do you think? Are we in an open relationship? Is Vanessa cheating on me?

A lot of people.

Is it a joke that we're in.

An open relationship now?

I think people just think that we're, like, super. We just, like, do everything. Do it all.

We do it all.

They talk about sex. They must do a lot of it.

That's another podcast name that we missed out on on Do It All. No, I will not be having sex with anybody new this weekend. In case anyone's worried about that.

Maybe we could role play, and then I could be, like, you know, character.

Strangers at a bar.

Yeah.

I've wanted to do that for a long time, but Xander won't do it.

Ever since that Modern Family. Modern Family episode even before that.

But. Well, if you have a question that you want answered on the podcast, you can also leave us a message at 774p I l l o w1. That's 774pillow1. It's a Google Voicemail box. Voice. Yeah, Voicemail.

Google Voice. Oh, it's Google Voice. Mailbox.

Mailbox.

It's a Google Voice. Voicemail box.

Google Voice. Voice Mailbox.

Anyways, no one cares about that. No one will pick up the phone.

It's Google Voice. So it just goes straight to the message. It's not like, yeah, nobody's gonna pick up the phone. Don't worry about it. It. But we just love having little audio clips. We had that in the. How to let your partner love your body episode, and people really loved it. So we want to have some more little clips like that in other future episodes. So leave us a message or leave.

Us verbal emoji descriptions in your voicemail. Oh, like me. Oh.

So you have to, like, do the reverse. Like, they have to describe it and then you have to pick the emoji.

Do your best me impression and. And tell us your emoji descriptions.

Wow, this is quite a complex task. Anyways, if you don't want to call the number, you can also shoot us a DM on Instagram or a voice memo. Record a voice memo. Yeah. So we'd love to just have some more audio clips. So thanks so much for listening.

See you next time.

Sam.