Episode 184: How To Get More Physical Intimacy From Your Partner

When we take the time, when we carve time out of our day to be intimate with each other, like, especially when we're busy, that makes me feel so important to you. And like, yes, we're busy. Life is full. We have a lot of responsibilities, a lot of things we do. But, like, I don't feel more important than I do when we make the time for sex. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. This episode is brought to you by zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online. Go to Zocdoc.comPillow and download the Zocdoc app for free. Hey, babe.

Yeah?

Why aren't we having more sex?

Why aren't we? Well, first of all, we. We're recording a podcast right now, so it'd be hard to be having sex. But I don't like. I don't like. I don't like the. I don't like the sound of that question.

This is me demonstrating what not to do.

I'm already feeling defensive and I haven't.

Done anything wrong 10 seconds into the episode.

Okay, wow, way to start on the wrong foot, Vanessa.

I know, I know. That just came to me just in the moment when you just looked over at me and I was, like, staring blankly out the window. I was. That was me thinking, this is the dumb intro I'm doing today. So here's the deal for this week's episode. Last week, we did an episode all about what to do if you want more emotional intimacy in your relationship. And we told you that there was going to be the. What did I call it? The flip side of the coin?

The sibling.

No, you called it the sibling. They were sister episodes that this week we were going to be talking about what to do if you want more physical intimacy in our. In your relationship and in our relationship what to do if you want us to have more sex.

Oh, yeah. What do they need to do for us to have more sex?

Pay us.

Kinky.

I mean, is there anything else you could think of?

Well, I mean, I could think of all kinds of things in addition to getting paid.

Well, what would you actually. What would actually make you have more sex? If you. If somebody from our audience requested. This is getting weird. I'm gonna stop it. Okay, so today we're gonna talk about what to do if you want more physical intimacy. We're gonna talk about what is physical intimacy. Cause you might actually not know. We're gonna talk about some gender socialization, why physical intimacy is important, and how to ask your partner for more. But first, Xander has a little update. Do you want to share your update?

I do. I'm. It feels kind of weird because I know that this episode is going to be coming out, you know, a couple weeks after we're actually recording it, and by then, it's going to be really old news. I, as most of you know, if you've been listening and even if you don't know, you've heard the impact of this. Since June, early June, I have been doing a palatal expansion, so expanding my upper palate in my mouth. And as of today, I went to orthodontist earlier this morning, and I had half of the expander device that was installed in my mouth removed. So the part that goes kind of like around my teeth on the top, that got pulled out today. So I'm done with the expansion. And, I mean, the thing that is most salient for all you podcast listeners.

Salient, Good podcast.

Salient. Good salience.

She's vocab. Good vocab word.

So if you can hear me saying salient with a nice S sound, I can talk again without slurring my words, which is really incredible. The even more incredible thing is that I am wearing my invisalign aligners right now, and I'm still not slurring. I'm able to say everything. I'd say I'm, like, at 99% right now. If I took the aligners out, maybe I would sound a little better. But this sounds so much better than how I sounded previously. Yeah. It turned out all that it was. It was not the aligners that was messing me up. It was basically these, like, metal bars along the top of my mouth that, you know, my tongue was bumping into, and it couldn't really, like, move in the way that it was accustomed to. So it's a huge relief for me. Yeah, like, when your voice is impacted, that's. It's kind of tough psychologically. It's weird because you have an idea of how you sound inside your head and you hear it and it doesn't sound like you. So that kind of threw me for a loop for a while. I was finally starting to get used to it and then bam, they took it off and I'm all better.

Very excited for you.

Yeah, I just get a lot of joy saying words that start with S and hearing that S come out nice and sharply.

All right, well, why don't you read us our reviews of the week?

Oh, okay.

Just one.

Yeah. So we would love it if you left us a five star review and a rate. Oh, sorry. A five star rating and a review on Apple Podcasts. Because that helps us out so much. If you're happy for me and getting like, my voice back in this podcast, honestly, I mean, if you're happy for.

Me, leave us a review.

Well, now, now you can. You can listen to me unencumbered now. I mean, it is kind of funny. I do think about like, you know, there's. There are plenty of people that probably started listening to our podcast, you know, in the middle of my expansion journey, and just all they know is my voice kind of like with a weird list. And yeah, this is what I actually sound like. So anyway, if you are stoked that you can hear Xander saying Ss and Zs properly again, I'd love it if you just left us a quick review at Apple Podcasts. Just go to the main Pillow Talks Apple podcast page, scroll all the way to the bottom, smash that five stars, and then just like, say a couple kind words about me or the podcast. But no, we appreciate that so much that we pick a review at random every week and read it aloud on the podcast. And if yours gets read, you've won a free masterclass from us. So all you have to do is email us@infomtherapy.com to claim it or DM us on Instagram. If this is your review, you're a winner. Hilariously honest and deeply insightful. I absolutely love this podcast. The dynamic between Vanessa and Xander is so funny and relatable. They talk about important relationship and sex topics that are available right at our fingertips. They make me feel so much more confident when going to my partner to talk about some of these more difficult or sometimes awkward conversations. These two make my work commute go by so quick and I learn so much. Highly recommend.

Oh, it's a really sweet review. Thank you so much. Sometimes searching for the right doctor is like a bad Mad Libs. You need a blank specialist who takes your Blank insurance who is within miles of you, who doesn't have a blank month wait to get in for an appointment. Well, zocdoc makes it easy to fill in those blanks to help you find the right doctor for your specific needs. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors. Choose the right one for your needs and click to instantly book an appointment. We're talking about in network appointments with more than 100,000 healthcare providers across every specialty from mental health to dental health, eye care to skin care, and much more. You can filter for. Doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you have and who are highly rated by verified patients. Plus, Zocdoc appointments happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. Now, anytime we take on a podcast sponsor, we always have to try them out. With Zocdoc, it's a little bit more complicated since we didn't have a need for a doctor in that exact moment. But we turned to our team and we asked if anybody had experience. And we had multiple team members who reached out to us right away and said they'd had great experiences. There were times where they really needed a medical provider. There was a lot of stress and anxiety, and they felt like zocdoc just so easily was able to connect them with somebody that they needed in that moment. So we're so excited to have them as a podcast sponsor and really grateful for helping make those stressful moments of life feel a lot easier. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.compillow to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That z o c-o c.com zocdoc.com pillow okay, so let's get into it. Let's talk about first. What is physical intimacy? So I think this right here is where so many of us go wrong. Because a lot of us think about physical intimacy and our brains immediately go to sex. Oh, you're excited to do that?

Yeah, let's talk about sex, baby. No, I was about to do that earlier when it was like, what is physical intimacy? And I was like, vanessa's gonna hate it.

Okay. I was actually thinking about when I was sitting here, like, how do I open up this podcast episode? I was thinking about, like, mentioning that song, and I was like, no, I can't. I refuse to do it. But you brought it in.

I did.

Okay, here's the little Backstory behind that. I hate that song.

Well, it's understandable because of the number of people that introduce us on podcasts by singing real time.

Like every time we're interviewed, somebody plays that song. We just like had a little speech at something a couple weeks ago. They played that song as like our walk up music. And I was like, oh, God, no, it's a great song. Look, I'm very happy for Salt N Pepa. I'm glad they made it, but I'm so sick of it, I don't wanna hear it anymore. Anyways. Okay, so yes, physical intimacy includes sex, but sex is just one small part of physical intimacy. Of course, there are lots of kinds of ways to have sex. I. I think, you know, we've talked a lot about how people in male female relationships, we really even narrow sex down to just intercourse. Like, let's be real. For most male female couples, sex is a few seconds of making out, a few seconds of groping, and then straight on to the intercourse. Right. But there are so many other ways to have sex with each other. So there's that, but there's also touch and closeness throughout the day.

Yeah. So we're talking stuff like cuddling, hugs, holding hands, sitting close to each other, massages, caressing each other's backs. Could even be stuff like dancing together.

Yeah, there's so many other ways to be physically intimate with each other that don't even have to include your genitals. And also the other piece of this is that it's physical intimacy. I think so many of us forget about the intimacy aspect of it.

Yeah, we got stuck on the physical. Oh, it's just physical sex. It's not like somehow physical is superficial because I think I. You know what? I think where it comes from, now that we're saying it, it makes so much sense in my head. I think where it comes from is we think about physical attraction and, you know, how superficiality can come into beauty and physical attraction. And, you know, I think that, you know, we go through a lot as we come of age and start dating and whatnot, trying to reconcile like, how important our physical characteristics. And, you know, and there's a lot of talk about like, oh, is that shallow? And all of this stuff. So I think we kind of condition ourselves in a way to downplay. You know, when we hear that word physical, we jump to like, oh, yeah, this stuff maybe that I want to downplay or like, I don't want to like, get in my head about like, oh, I need these, like, specific physical attributes and Then we hear physical intimacy or like, you know, combine sort of like sex and getting physical. And it's kind of like easy to just sort of throw the baby out with the bath water because we've, we've already made this connection. Oh, the physical stuff is not actually so important.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, so many of us think of it as this physical act, but it's not just purely physical. It's so important to recognize that sex is just as much about connection. Like, yes, you absolutely can just have sex. That's no connection. That's just like getting it done, trying to feel pleasure. Of course there's lots of casual sex, but like, in a long term, committed relationship, sex is really all about connection. It's this special thing that we do with each other. It's a way we get to show up and be truly vulnerable with each other, to play, to explore. There's so much more to it. And I think especially if your sex life is in a tough place, it's really tempting to think of sex as just this purely physical act. And then you think, oh, well, that's not important. There are so many more other important things. I'm too busy. I've got this on my plate. I'm too tired. I. When we think of it as just the physical, it's very easy to write it off.

And, you know, then we further get in that hole of like, of assuming or, you know, having the experience that almost any type of physical touch or physical intimacy is going to lead one partner to wanting sex. And therefore that's something that we should shy away from. That sort of like the double. The double whammy is like we deprioritize the physical and then we avoid it even further. Whereas, you know, we're going to argue in this whole podcast like, this is just as important of an element of your relationship, sex or otherwise physical. It's just as important of an element of your relationship as. As the emotional. All right, guys, I got a quick bone to pick when it comes.

A quick bone to pick.

A quick bone to pick. When it comes to skin care, why is it that women's body care products are always so much nicer than men's? Why is it that whenever we talk about skincare, we assume that it is for women? Because it's not. Skincare is just as much for men as it is for women is for people that have skin that need taken care of. So that's why I want to tell you a little bit about Jack Black today. Jack Black is one of our podcast sponsors. And just in time for the holidays, Jack Black's gifting sets are available so that the guy in your life or you, the guy listening to this episode can be well groomed for the holidays. Now, I'm wearing Jack Black deodorant right now. I've been using it for years. It is my absolute favorite. Vanessa uses it all the time as well because she somehow conveniently always forgets hers when we're traveling.

I just like the way yours smells.

Yeah. As soon as Jack Black sent us a bunch of their brand new gift sets, all I had to tell you about them because they are very, very cool. There are gifting sets that are full of lip balm, deodorant, facial cream with SPF in it, all the stuff that men, and literally anyone with skin need to keep their skin healthy and in some really, really great scents and also in some packaging that actually looks quite manly. I mean, I think one of my, one of my bones to pick with skin care is like, I go into Vanessa's stash and I like, I don't understand what any of it is. There are all these like little tiny bottles and things like that. I'm like, I don't even know where to begin with this. But no, Jack Black makes it really simple. It's just like the basics that you actually need and, you know, the stuff that is actually going to make a really big difference for your skin. These Jack Black gift sets are ideal for any upcoming trips you got this holiday season. Simplify your packing list and grab some of Jack Black's TSA friendly products to throw in your toiletry kit. Plus, Jack Black has free shipping in the US on orders of $50 or more, and they're dropping new promo offers every week. So now is the time to give Jack Black a try and have your man discover his favorite products this holiday season. If you want simple, effective products that your significant other will love, you need Jack black head to getjackblack.com pillow and use code PILLOW for 10% off your order. Once again, that's getjackblack.com pillow for 10% off. And make sure you use our promo code pillow so they know that we sent you.

For a lot of people like, the intimacy that being physical creates leads to more emotional intimacy too. Like, in the right circumstances, physical intimacy can create more emotional intimacy. Like, that's definitely the case for me. So when you and I are already, like, when we're in a good place, when we're feeling close and connected, and like, when we have Sex. It feels so heart opening to me. Like, it's like we're really there in that moment together. We're making that space for each other. We're fully focused on this task that we're doing together. Like, we're just in it together, and it feels. Yeah, I know task sounds like a weird word, but, like, you know what I mean? Like, as opposed to the act, the.

Thing that we're doing.

Think about, like, when we go on a date night. We're, like. We're pulling our phones out. Like, oh, hold on. Like, someone messaged me. We're getting distracted. Well, I'm getting distracted eavesdropping at the table next to us. I can't hear what is going on over there. Like, even on a date night, which ostensibly is, like, the main thing couples do to really prioritize each other. Like, we're wildly distracted.

Well, there's a lot of distractions in a busy restaurant or, you know, whatever. There's noise, there's things happening. You're focused on, like, oh, like, has the waiter, you know, I was like, how's, like, the server come over? Yeah. Have we ordered? Okay, where's my food? You know, I'm hungry, all that kind of stuff.

But actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it's like, sex is one of. Sex is probably the only thing that you and I do together where that is, like, the singular focus in that moment. We are only having sex. We're not on our phones. We're not listening to something else. We're not watching. Well, we're listening to some music, but it's not like, in that.

Or. Or cooking dinner. Oh, so, you know, the food and sex comparisons continue to be important. Well, if we're both. If we're both really preparing something for.

Me, it really comes down to the phone for me, because every other activity we do, we're busting out our phones sometimes.

Yeah.

Oh, hold on. I heard a little ding. Oh, I just need to check something. Oh, we're having a conversation about this. Let me Google something about that. The phones are always coming out. The phones never come out during sex.

Yeah, and I give you a hard time if you forgot to put yours on silent, because she does half the time. So annoying. I'm like, come on, girl. You knew what we were doing. It's not a surprise.

So, yeah, there is something about, like, really being in that moment together that creates so much emotional closeness and intimacy. So last week we mentioned our idea that, like, there are two types of people in the world. There are people who want to feel connected before they have sex, and there are people who want to have sex and is a way to feel connected. And usually each relationship is, or every relationship is one of each. I don't think we mentioned these stats last time, though. We polled our audience about this and we found that 86% of women want emotional connection before physical connection, and 77% of men want physical connection before emotional connection. I will say we are the reverse of the typical gender dynamic here. I want physical connection before emotional, which.

Is funny because physical intimacy is like, Physical touch is not high on your love languages list.

I know love languages is bullshit.

Where did this come from?

My love language is sex.

Okay, fair.

No. So we're the opposite. So if you're the opposite too, that's just how numbers break down. That's totally fine. But I want to talk a little bit about the reason, some of the reasons why we think that is. So why is it. I know we have this tendency to write off men as, oh, they're just hard horny, they just want sex wherever, whenever, they're sex obsessed. But I think a lot of the reason why men often want physical intimacy first is because of the crappy male socialization that they get. We talk about this so much that men are taught that they're not supposed to be emotional, whereas women are allowed to be emotional. It's even kind of encouraged. So for a lot of men, I've had so many men tell me the only way that I feel like I'm really allowed to connect with my partner is through. So even though most men, like, rationally know, like, it's, you know, it's not like anybody's gonna come beat down my door or anything like that. Like, I still think that there's this feeling inside that sex is the only way that you can really open up.

I think also part of it is like, I think as a man, I mean, I still, I even still feel this so often, especially when I'm just, you know, hanging out with or talking with other men. It's just there's this, like, extreme level of, like, defenses, like, always having sort of defenses up of like, you know, oh, like, ooh, asking that deeper probing question, like, ooh, that might be a little too much. Or, like, what's he gonna think? What are they gonna think if I, if I say this? Or. Or whatever. Or, like, okay, like, how can I describe what's going on for me in terms of more like, facts rather than feelings? Or how can I rationalize whatever is Happening or explain it in a way that makes sense rather than in a way that is just based on how I'm actually feeling. I think my experience at least is that you might even have those defenses up when you are hanging out, when you're starting to date someone or you know, even on a day to day basis outside of sex with your long term partner. My experience has always been with sex is that when I've started to have sex with someone in a, in a committed relationship, post sex is, that's when I feel those defenses like are really gone. It might be the chemicals rushing through my, my head.

Your post nut clarity?

Yeah, my post nut clarity. Or you know, just probably that like rush of oxytocin and all the other neurotransmitters that are, they're going through that kind of lower the defenses and give you that opportunity to like kind of have a moment of sharing emotion and intimacy. And so yeah, I think that, yeah, for a lot of men it's like, it's like it, they may not be able to point to this explicitly, but like, it's this huge moment of relief like, oh, okay, I can be myself for a moment before the walls come slowing down, crashing down or, or something like that. So. But like, I know for me even just recording the last episode about emotional intimacy and this one, I never really thought of it in this way, but I can now kind of see if I play back like, you know, the times when I've had more casual sex in, in my life. Like, I think the reason it didn't feel good is because sex feels like this very like emotional thing. Like you're, whether your intention is for it to be casual or not, like, you know, you're sharing a lot with each other basically by having sex. And if I didn't have that baseline level of emotional connection with the person, I felt like there was a mismatch sort of in that moment after the sex was done where it's like, oh, like I gotta get, I gotta put the defenses back up because we don't have this baseline level where I can even like, you know, I don't know, have a emotional conversation with this person because I don't know them. And for me, that always manifested for me in kind of this like icky feeling of like, ooh, this feels like we just did too much and now we can't. Like, you know, it's, I don't know, it's like I wrote a check that I can't quite cash right now. So anyway, I think for Me, I can realize, oh, okay, yeah, that's a good sign that, like, I want to have that baseline level of emotional connection, of trust, so that when the walls kind of come down, I can actually, like, I feel comfortable.

Yeah, that makes sense. So Xander and I both love to cook. It's one of our favorite ways to unwind after a long day. But let's be real. Going food shopping, getting all the ingredients, deciding what you're gonna have. Like, it can just be very time consuming, even for people who love to cook.

Yeah. We need a little help.

So we are so excited to tell you about today's podcast sponsor, Marley Spoon. Marley Spoon knows bland food is boring. So they created the best tasting meal kit money can buy. And with our code pillow, you can get up to 25 free meals. With Marley Spoon, you can choose from over 100 delicious recipes every week, from Cajun spiced chicken that was a personal favorite of ours, to poached salmon to a vegan burrito bowl. And many of the recipes are completely customizable. Whether you're looking for vegetarian, family friendly dishes, low carb options, Marley Spoon has the food you want to eat. They even have an in house registered dietitian who actually assesses every recipe. So it takes the guesswork out of eating healthy.

Also, one of the other things that we really love about Marley Spoon is the way that they package everything. Like, it feels like you are getting a fresh farm box from the farmer's market. When you pull everything out. Like, instead of everything being organized into, like, little bags and like this meal, that meal, the other meal, it's like you just get a box of all these vegetables and a box of all this meat right below it. That's nice and cool. It's just super fun because it's like, oh, awesome. Like, I got this nice little farm box. It feels like more interactive rather than, like super duper prepackaged. And we had a lot of fun with that.

With meal planning and food shopping taken care of, making delicious food at home has finally become effortless. So experience the most personalized meal kit today with Marley spoon. Head to marleyspoon.com offer pillow and use code pillow for up to 25 free meals. That's right. Up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon one last time. That's Marley spoon.com offer pillow for up to 25 free meals. And make sure to use our promo code pillow. So they know we sent you. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not saying that because men have been socialized this way that now that Just gets to be the only thing that they ever experience. Like, I do believe that men need to work on getting more comfortable with their emotions and expressing them in a wider array of situations. And I think it's also helpful for anybody who's in a relationship with a man to understand, like, this really is one of the safest places for him. And by validating that, that's how we get men to express more emotions and be more comfortable. But we can't. I think often what happens is we make fun of men or downplay it. Like, oh, my God, yeah, okay, sure, buddy. So we have to start with validating, not downplaying.

Yeah. Because then you're really, like, sweeping aside a core part of who he feels he is. You know, whether that's completely true or not. Because I think that, like, the reality is, like, what men need to understand is, oh, it's not that you don't know how to be emotional. It's that you have only been allowed to be emotional in a very narrow set of circumstances. And so what men need to understand is, oh, sex isn't the only way that I can be emotional. I need to look at sex as an example of or proof that, oh, I can be emotional. I just have to, like, kind of push myself to be able to find out how to express it in other situations. Because I can't just be like, oh, God, I need to express an emotion. We bet I have to have sex. Like, it. It doesn't. It doesn't work like that. So it's like, men need to understand, oh, okay, I am capable of this. Here's the proof of it. Now I can. Now I can use that as, you know, a reason to go work on doing it in other ways. Whereas partners of men need to validate. Yeah, this is a real thing for my partner. This isn't just, like, some extra superficial thing that they want. This is a core part of who they have been up until this point. This has been the only way that they really know how to do this.

Okay, so other than the things we've already mentioned, let's talk about some other reasons why physical intimacy is important in relationships. I want to start with, it feels good and it's fun.

Sure is.

Those are some great reasons. I think we so often, like, look down on things that bring us pleasure and joy. Like, they're not worthwhile enough or sophisticated enough, but they are.

Yeah. I mean, that's just like. That's just like. At least for Americans, that's, I think, just like those very deep Puritanical roots sort of at the. At the founding of, you know, the.

Nothing is valuable unless it's productive.

That we are. Yeah. And it's so easy to be like, oh, pleasure. Oh, that's. That's hedonism. Yeah. Which is such an extreme way of thinking. Anything feels good is hedonistic. Like, hedonistic is the far end of an extreme. Like, we're not talking about that. It also strengthens the bond between partners and makes you feel more important to each other.

That's actually one of the main things for me, like, when we take the time when we carve time out of our day to be intimate with each other, like, especially when we're busy, that makes me feel so important to you. And like, yes, we're busy. Life is full. We have a lot of responsibilities, a lot of things we do. But, like, I don't feel more important than I do when we make the time for sex.

It's funny, hearing you say that is, like. That's in a way, sort of a description of, like, acts of service. In a way, it's like, sex as an act of service.

Me.

Yeah, because. Because. So, I mean, actually, I actually hate.

The Love Languages model because the guy who created it is an asshole. So we need to make our own.

Yeah.

Sex. Service me.

Yeah.

Well, but make me laugh.

What I was going to say is that. Yeah. I think that this starts to really expose the serious cracks in the Love Languages model, because people think, like, oh, well, you know, physical touch. Like, if you're a physical touch person, then, like, you love sex. But the reality is, it's like, sex can have all these different flavors, and there's all these. You could probably work, you know, a sexual angle into any of the Love Languages where, like, what Vanessa talked about is the. The act of setting aside time, of prioritizing it. She feels like. She feels so loved and wanted when we set aside time, especially in a busy day, and say, this is the most important thing to me, which is really, like, the definition of acts of service is like, someone who loves acts of service is like, hey, this person took time out of their day, you know, with a lot of important things, and did this, you know, for me. And so. Yeah. Whereas, you know, service me. For me, I love sex, too, but for me, I don't ever think of it in that way. I'm never like, oh, that was so meaningful because she stopped what she was doing and did this with me instead. Like, that thought never crosses my mind at all. So. All right, all right. Other Reasons it's important. Well, it builds trust.

Yeah. If you're having sex, right. Like real vulnerable, intimate, physical intimacy.

You, you made the mistake.

I did.

By just saying sex, which is not what we're talking about.

Physical intimacy. Right. It is extremely trust building.

Yeah. And. And so physical intimacy also differentiates your relationship from a friendship then. I'm not trying to say that like, you know, any amount of physical intimacy is a differentiator, but sort of like when you are experiencing the full range of physical intimacy, then that very much. Yeah. Especially the sexual, physical intimacy that really differentiates your relationship from just a friendship. And I think on that one that is a very, you know, this is an important one to look at the gender difference as well, because I think that, you know, most women do have close emotional relationships with other women that also may have some element of physical intimacy as well. Which is another reason why those relationships are often so much closer and so much more meaningful than relationships that men have with other men. Because I think most, the vast majority of men have very little to no physical intimacy in their other male friendships. Yeah, you know, other than the like, you know, like giving a hug hi or bye or something like that.

But it's always the like clap on the back. Like, well, can't do it close. I really jumbled my.

But yeah, but I think that that's an important one to recognize, especially you know, if you've got a man in your life and a reminder to you of like, oh, this is something that really he only ever experiences with me. Because if you feel like, oh well, like I feel pretty like my needs are fairly well met in this area, consider you may have be having those needs met from other relationships that you have some of that physical intimacy that you are getting, you may be getting on an ongoing basis from other people in your relationship and that may be very different from what your partner is currently having.

There are also a lot of amazing health benefits to physical intimacy. So I don't think health benefits should be the main reason, like you're not going up to your partner and being like, I need my heart health, so let's go have sex.

But if this helps, why not?

It still is interesting to see how many health benefits any sort of physical intimacy can have. It reduces stress, increases oxytocin, which is a hormone that promotes well being and a sense of trust and bonding, improves immune function, reduces your blood pressure, improves sleep, and can even improve pain tolerance, which is wild. Okay, so let's get down to the real nitty gritty. How do you ask your partner for.

More physical intimacy now that we've convinced you of how important it is? Right. All those health benefits that that should be your only reason for doing it now?

Okay, so the most important piece of advice I have for you here is to focus on the intimacy aspect. It is too easy for your partner to hear I want more sex. And like, just think of it as this physical act for them to get defensive and feel like, you know, you're upset with them. You have to focus on the emotional intimacy aspect of physical intimacy. So talk to your partner about how close you feel to them when you're physically intimate. What is it like for you to let down your walls, to be really present in the moment? Like, you have to focus on those aspects of it.

Another great thing to add in if you're going to use this line of, you know, like, hey, I feel so close to you when we're physically intimate, is add in a little bit of blame on, on some external factors. This is just a way to kind of like decrease the potential for your partner to get defensive or feel like they're doing something wrong. So this can be a really simple just like acknowledgment of like, hey, I know that life has been really busy lately. I know I've been working late at work a lot recently. Or you know, I know that you've been dealing with like, you know, your parents health situation or whatever it is is identifying something else that has been going on. You know, some other factor that may be involved in this is not to like downplay the request that you're making, but just to kind of, to show this is something that I'm looking for. What I'm not doing is I'm not saying, hey, I want this. You're not giving it to me. Like, you're in the wrong here. It's like there's a lot of stuff going on and this is something that is important to me and I would like to prioritize more.

Now. The real heart of this conversation should be about removing blockages to intimacy. The reality is couples don't stop having sex or have sex infrequently, like, just for fun. There are good reasons for it. Like, and Xander was just talking about that. Some examples. I'm working a lot, I'm super stressed. My parents are sick, our kids are sick. Like, something is always going on, right? So if you want to have more physical intimacy with your partner, you need to be their teammate. The two of you against all the stuff that life is throwing in your way, preventing you from having sex. So the conversation really needs to be like, how can I support you? How can we support each other in removing these blockages?

Vanessa actually really hit the nail on the head here when she was like, look, no one is like, oh, let's try to have as little physical intimacy as possible. Wouldn't that be fun? I think, though, a lot of us get into a dynamic because we haven't been talking about it, haven't been acknowledging it for way too long. We get into a dynamic where it feels like, oh, my partner is just withholding from me, or it's like, they don't want to do this. And so then, you know, it feels like you have to act like, hey, I want this thing. You're not giving it to me. I need to ask you or tell you that I need you to give it to me versus thinking to yourself. I think this is a really important thing for everyone who is wanting. So anyone who is wanting more physical intimacy, stop and just remind yourself, hey, my partner is not intentionally withholding this from me. There are. There must be other things going on that are blocking them from being able to, you know, to. Able to show up in the way that I would like them to be showing up.

And they probably want to be showing up.

They probably want that too. So it's like, this is something that we both want. There must be some things in the way. And I want to, rather than say, you need to give this to me, I want to get curious about what's going on, and I want to. I want to get involved in helping kind of break down these blockages.

So here are some of the big things that come up. Mental Load is a huge one.

This is probably your first. Your first stop, especially to men out there. Yeah.

If you're a man in a relationship with a woman, you gotta talk to her about Mental Load.

Yeah. Whether you think it's a problem or not, I can almost already tell you without even knowing your situation, it is a problem.

We're gonna have another episode about Mental Load coming up, but we do have some old ones if you want to go back and look at them.

Wow. Really sold it there. Can we leave that in? That was just taking a. On our old podcast episodes, I just.

Like, I tripped myself up because I said, look at them. I was like, you don't look at a podcast episode. You listen.

Take a look and see if you even want to listen to it.

So dumb.

Our Mental Load one is one of our most listened to episodes.

I know it's a great episode. It's really important.

Are we. Are we leaving this end? This is awesome. Hopefully Art can maybe remove a couple. Like, trim out a couple of the pauses, but that was. That was pretty funny. But that's what. You just really sold us short.

You also got a little behind the scenes peek at, like, whenever. If you hear that weird little clap in the background. That's what we do to tell our podcast editor we fucked up and we need him to cut something out.

Art.

Art, save us, please. You sound like idiots. Go look at them. Anyways, mental load. Your partner's probably not having sex with you because she's carrying too much mental load. You need to fix that. You need to balance it out.

No, no, no, it's not. You don't need to fix that. You need to be part of the solution, though. Yeah, no, yeah, this is you together.

Like, you need to be some mental load together. The two of you need to divide up the mental load.

Yeah. In a way that's not you just saying, how can I help? Take that. Take that word out of your vocabulary. Boom. That's all you need to know about mental load. Stop saying, how can I help? And just fucking help. Yeah, okay, don't even help. I mean, I. What I mean is just fucking do it. Not help. Because help implies that it's not your job or not your responsibility.

There you go.

And it is you. You co own a house and a family together and you co. Own and run that thing and.

Yeah, run that thing.

It's not enough to just help. Yeah. I mean, like, if you just went to work every day and you're like, how can I help? How can I help? Like, you got hired. You have a job description. You have a role. You have responsibilities that you have to do whether someone asks you to or not. Same thing in your house. Boom. Done. Mic drop. All right, let's go. What's next, babe?

Time alone. Maybe you're part of a little more time alone to, like, come back home to their own body, especially connect with you physically, especially.

They've been home with the kids all day or, you know, whatever. They're. They're working from home. You're working out of the home. Like, as much as you might think, oh, yeah, well, we work the same number of hours or. Or whatever. Like, you know, the. You know, there's some really great things about working from home. There are also some great things about working away from the home, which is that you have a built in, like, buffer for decompressing in your Commute, even if the commute sucks, there's this, you know, you mentally are getting to disengage from whatever you were doing then and listening to music or listening to podcasts, doing things that soothe you even if you're stuck in traffic. And that sucks. Like, by the time you get home, you're like, hell yeah, I'm home, I want to be home. I'm ready to be home. Whereas, like, someone that's been at the house all day, they don't have that opportunity to disengage.

And another category might be like taking care of the kids too. Like Xander just mentioned, if one partner is home taking care of the kids all day, they might need to have some space to themselves to have another partner come in and take over for a little bit. So that's another very common possibility. But really, I mean, there could be a million different things that get in the way of the two of you being intimate. And the bottom line is, how can you be a team together in making more space, finding more time, finding more energy to be intimate.

Next up, make sure you are focusing on their pleasure when you are having physical intimacy. Now, whether this is sex or not sex, even if it's just some really simple touch, like are you touching your partner in a way that, you know they like to be touched versus touching them in a way that's more like for your own pleasure or for your own enjoyment. The boob honk is a great example of this. A lot of guys love to just grab the boobs and go honk, honk. And a lot of us women, if we're being honest. Yep. If we're being honest, we are doing that only for our puer isle selves.

Ooh, queer isle. Wow. Really? Going in with the 13 year old.

Raging hormones boy inside you is like, I want to grab those boobs. So yeah, I think that it's across the entire spectrum of physical intimacy is like, yeah, is this for me or is this for my partner? And it is okay to do some things that are for you, but let's not do those if we know that our partner hates them.

But the bottom line here is if you want your partner to be physically intimate with you, you need to make sure they're enjoying it. Because if your partner isn't enjoying the intimacy you' having, it doesn't make any sense for them to want more of it.

So we gotta make sure they probably would want less.

Yeah, we gotta make sure it's balanced. And our final tip here is to focus on physical touch first. So we've been talking so much about how physical intimacy is more than just sex. Like, focus on all those other aspects of non sexual touch first. More cuddling, more hugging, more dancing around in the kitchen together. Like that's going to help your partner relax, start to connect with you more. And you know it's gonna lead to more physical intimacy too. But we wanna make sure that not all physical touch ends up leading to sex. So sometimes just give your partner a hug just for the sake of giving them a hug. Don't try to like squeeze them and make it linger a little longer and start grinding against them. Like we need to also trust that you're touching us sometimes just to touch us, not to try to make it lead to something more.

Yeah, I mean, I alluded to this earlier when I was talking about, you know, the how it can feel like. Oh, well, all physical touch just leads to sex and therefore it's something to stay away from. Is that. Yeah. If you want more physical intimacy in your life, even if all you really want is more sex in your life, you have to find a way to break that connection. Yeah. Between. Any type of physical intimacy must lead to sex because all you're doing is driving your partner away from one, wanting to have sex with you, and two, wanting to have any physical intimacy with you. So even if all you want is more sex, you gotta put in the work of having more physical intimacy that doesn't lead to sex. And because that's ultimately it's gonna feel really good to both of you, I think that you might be surprised at how good it can feel for you. I think when you're not having a lot of sex, it's, it's easy to get frustrated and just be like, oh, if I just had more sex, I'd feel better. But it's like, no, you need more just non sexual physical intimacy. You also need more emotional intimacy. You need like more of all the things. So. Yeah, I just, I would implore you to be really honest with yourself about. Do you have a track record in your relationship of non sexual physical intimacy that doesn't lead to sex? And if you don't start there.

Okay, let's go through a couple of possible responses your partner might have.

All right, well, what if your partner just goes, oh, it's just sex.

That means that you have missed our number one tip to focus on the emotional impacts of it. You really want your partner to understand that for you this is about feeling a sense of closeness and connection, not just about getting off.

Yeah. So whatever Conversation you have about wanting more physical intimacy is, you know, is. Is heading this one off at the past by trying to work into your requests or work into your conversation. The fact that you feel emotionally closer when we do X, Y, Z, Ari. What if, what if the partner's just like, I just like, don't want physical intimacy or I just don't want sex that much?

To me, that points to the blockages to intimacy. So yes, people have different sex drives. Absolutely. And there's no one right sex drive. It's not like the more you want sex, the better or anything like that. But oftentimes, like, we all have to deal with blockages that are getting in the way. So I think a great question to ask your partner is, well, what makes you want sex and what makes you not want sex? That's going to give you a lot of really interesting insight into potential blockages that might be in the way or ways that you can be your partner's teammate in creating more desire for intimacy.

I think also here another question is like, you know, is really drilling down on, like, is your partner saying that they just don't want sex that much or that they just don't want that much physical intimacy of any kind at all? Because I think that most people, it is. It's going to be unlikely that your partner's like, you know what? I just don't want much sex and I just don't want much touch at all. That's a different issue to address. If it's like, I don't want any of that, but if it's more of, yeah, no, like, touch is good, but it's just like, I just don't want sex that much. To me, that implies you very likely have a physical touch leading to sex problem. That's sort of like a bristle reaction in, in real life or in the making. Yeah. And I think that that's, that's a. Okay, if you hear that, then it's like, you gotta refocus the conversation on. Hey, you know, I'm actually not just talking about sexual. Did I?

Yeah, you're like, conversation.

Oh, to refocus the conversation on. Yeah. When I'm saying physical intimacy, yes, I'm talking about sex, but I'm also talking about all these other things. And I, I want more of that stuff too. And I realize that, you know, maybe in the past it's always been one thing leading to the other. I really, you know, I want more sex. I also want just more touch. That's just for touch sake. And you Know I want to start doing that with you. Yeah. Okay. What about someone saying, like, well, there's just, like, not enough time or, like, I'm too tired, Sort of, like, kind of, like, logistical excuses.

Okay. So I would not try to change their mind in the moment like this. You often hear this, like, in the moment of someone's initiated sex. I would come back around to it the next day and talk about it. And again, this is where we're getting into that teammate mentality. If somebody's saying, like, there's just not enough time. I'm too exhausted. At the end of the day, like, it's like, okay, how can we be teammates? I know we have so much on our plate, and you want to validate them here too. Yeah. We have so much on our plate. I know it doesn't feel like there's very much time. I feel so busy too. But how do we, together as a team, work on carving out some time for us? Because we are important. We deserve to have quality, connected time together. So I would even not talk about physical intimacy. I just talk more generally about time. Like, how do we create more time for us? Because we deserve it.

Yeah. And I. I went off on mental load. This is probably your clue that there could be some mental load imbalances involved. And so instead of just focusing on how much you want or need sex, maybe put a pause on that and try to dig into some of the mental load imbalances and see if you. See if you can come back to this and if anything has changed once you've addressed that.

All right, so those are our tips for trying to get more physical intimacy in your relationship. I know that's a lot. Like, we covered a lot of ground and a lot of really big topics here. So if you're looking for a little assistance, looking for a streamlined, simple, practical way that you can be guided through having more intimacy in your relationship, we have just the thing for you. Sweet or spicy?

Yeah. So sweet or spicy. It combines our two most loved challenges. So that's the connection challenge and the sex challenge to help you reignite that honeymoon phase spark and get back to feeling closer than ever before.

So the connection challenge is your specific path towards creating more emotional intimacy, while the sex challenge is your path for creating more physical intimacy. So you can choose here, like, what are you wanting more of in your relationship right now? But ultimately, we do think that most relationships would benefit from both. So rather than sweet or spicy, it can be sweet and spicy.

Yeah, that's. That's the move. So Let me tell you exactly how this works. So you can start either challenge whenever you want. Each one will send you 30 unique emails with two quick yet very powerful activities that are designed to increase intimacy, whether that's physical or emotional, between you and your partner. So we're talking like 10 to 20 minutes for each challenge, and they're really designed to be as doable as possible. Plus, the really cool thing is that you get to choose your own pace. Like you can do these whenever you want. Totally up to you. Like you want to do it once a week. Awesome. Every few days. Even better. Whatever feels good to you.

So if you go sweet with the connection challenge, your two daily options are going to include a communication activity. So this is like a thought provoking question or discussion prompt that ranges from fun and flirty to deep and meaningful. You'll also get an action activity. So this is a short, playful activity you and your partner complete together.

All right, now, if you get spicy with the sex challenge each day, you're going to receive essential activity. So this is like an activity. It's based around communication, touch, or maybe even foreplay. Because, hey, honestly, sometimes the hottest moments happen when your clothes are still on and then a sexual activity. So this is an R rated assignment, but I want to be really clear, it is not just intercourse, contrary to popular opinion.

So you can get either challenge individually for $129 or you can get both for only one 99. That's a massive discount because we really want to encourage couples to go all in and get both. And we want to give you a very important heads up. This is actually going to be the very last time we do Sweet or Spicy. We have done it for years now. If you've been around for a long time, you might have also known it as Intimate or Nasty. That was original name. But we are going to stop offering the challenge in these formats. We're making some changes to our business. Trying to simplify things. We are retiring a lot of our guides and courses, even the super popular ones. So if you want a chance to do sweet or spicy, this is your absolute last chance before we close it down.

Yeah. So discover more about the Sweet or Spicy challenge by heading to vmtherapy.com/sweet or spicy.

Well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about porn.