Episode 204: Confessions Of An Overactive Bladder

And I'm saying right now, you know, we're talking about peeing and needing to pee, even when you don't need to pee. And I'm thinking about it, if you.

Right now are listening and you're like, I kind of have to pee too, keep listening because you probably have some.

Peeing issues, keep listening and don't pee.

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. So today is a very different kind of episode for us. We're talking about something that we've never talked about before and sharing a really personal story. Today we're talking all about my bladder journey. Words that I never thought I'd be saying on a public platform, but here we are. We're talking about the bladder today. I mean, we've done a. We did a vasectomy issue issue.

An episode.

Actually, we did two vasectomy episodes.

We did.

That feels a little more related to sex and intimacy than bladder stuff does. So, yeah, today we're gonna talk about my peeing struggles.

We're going there.

We're going there. And honestly, like, we were inspired to do this episode. Well, first of all, because I started off sharing all the information that I learned with my girlfriends. And the last time that I did that, I sent this, like, epic 10 minute long voice note. Voice notes are my love language. If you're my friend, you get a lot of voice notes that I sent this one to my friend because she had mentioned just like very casually in a voice note of hers that she was having some bladder issues. I sent her this, like, epic voice note that was like, okay, I'm going to totally give you all this unsolicited advice, but I have to because I've learned so much. And she said I totally changed her life and that she never knew any of this information. And I was like, neither did I. I had to learn it the hard way. And I don't want anybody else that I know and care about to have to learn the hard way. So I decided to share it myself. And we actually turned to our Instagram community. We asked like, have you ever experienced any sort of bladder related issue? 62% of people said yes.

Damn. Yeah, I mean, I guess this is just something that is. It's similar to sex where we don't talk about it that publicly. We don't talk about it. We don't talk about it very tactically. Like, here is how you do this thing. It's like, oh, yeah, it's just this thing we talk about in general, going pee. We talk about having sex, but we don't really talk about how to do that. And so then once we start to have issues with it, all of a sudden we feel super alone and like, oh my God, this is something I'm just supposed to be able to naturally do. So, you know, I think that there is a good tie in here with sex that, you know, bladder issues and sex issues are two things that are, you know, wildly not talked about enough. But before we can get into the bladder issues, let's talk about this week's review of the week. So we do review of the week every week because reviews are so important to us, whether that's a review of one of our courses or of the podcast itself. This week's review is a review of a course. So the way that this works is if you hear your review read aloud, then you are the winner. You've won a free masterclass. All you gotta do to claim it is DM us on Instagram at Vanessa and Zander and or email us@infomtherapy.com and if you want to leave a review, all you have to do, well, you got to get one of our courses, then you got to send us in a review. So either via email or via Instagram, tell us what you bought, what you loved about it, how it transformed your love life, anything you want to share, and then you are entered into the drawing. So this week's. Hi guys. I wanted to take a minute and thank you for the wonderful course. I got the ultimate sex guide. We are thoroughly enjoying working our way through the pages together. We have always had an extremely open and connected sex life, and the courses have made our bedroom and other places experiences even better. We find sitting and reading through the course is a wonderful way to align ourselves and slowly start to build excitement and passion and curiosity about how we are going to pleasure each other. I hope other couples who are not struggling with intimacy or openness can realize how your courses take lovemaking sessions to an even deeper and more exciting level that they never thought thought existed. Thank you for your podcasts and courses they are amazing.

Oh, I love this review. That's such a great one.

Yeah, that's so. This is so great. I mean, this is like exactly what. This is exactly what we hope for. You know, this is like it's taking things to the next level that you didn't even know existed. I think so many people are like, oh yeah, no, like, it's fine we have sex. It's fine. It's like, fine ain't good enough. Let's make it great.

Even good isn't good enough. Like, and even great, like, there's always somewhere deeper to go. Okay, so if you want to check out the guide that this person specifically was mentioning, that's our ultimate sex guide. You can go straight over to vmtherapy.com ultimate or you can get access to this guide and dozens more inside of Deeper. I love that they specifically use the word make it even deeper. Deeper is our brand new membership for couples who want to go deeper in their relationship. More intimacy, hotter sex, more connection. So you can go straight to vmtherapy.com deeper. It is really an incredible, incredible deal. And we will also put both of those links in the show notes if you want to check them out. Okay. We have a special prop today to show you one of our ad partners, Blissey and their satin pillowcases. So I actually just found out from a friend that satin is a major game changer for your sample skin and your hair health. But sleeping on a satin pillowcase can make such a big difference. So we decided to check out Blissey's pillowcases. I really love the color of this one. It's really pretty. You can't tell from the video, but it is nice and sleek and soft. It's gotten a little bit wrinkled from a couple of nights of uses, but it is a really amazing, like very luxurious feeling pillowcase to have on your pillows. So satin pillowcases can eliminate frizz from your hair, preserve your hairstyles, protect color treated hair. They are clinically proven to not clog pores. Unlike cotton, they are naturally hydrating silk fibers which keep your skin nice and moisturized all night. Can even have anti aging properties, reducing fine lines and wrinkles over time. They are naturally cooling and breathable. Like this is so cool to sleep on. And I'm somebody who tends to sleep a little bit hot. So this pillow has been really, really nice to sleep on. And of course if you're not hot at night, that can also promote better sleep. So they actually have over 70 different colors. Is Pretty wild.

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I went with the nice plain white or cream one because that appealed to me the most. But 70 colors, which is crazy. And there are over 3 million sold. And Blissey is offering a 60 night risk free plus an additional 30% off whenever you shop at Blissey.com pillow pod that's B L I S S-Y.com pillow pod and use code pillow pod to get an additional CO 30% off your skin and hair will. Thank you. Okay, so let's get into my story. I am a little nervous. I'll say. Like, this is a. It's a vulnerable thing to talk about. Like, I didn't even tell you what was going on for a really long time because it just. Yeah, it's one of the, like you said, like, like sex. It's one of those things that you feel like, I don't want to talk about that. Like, that's, that's weird to talk about. You're not supposed to talk about. Okay. I also want to be super clear before I get into it, like, this podcast is not meant to be medical advice. This is not meant to, like, tell anybody else what they should do with their own body. Like, I want people to consult their doctors. I'm going to talk about other options and specialists and stuff that you can turn to. So it's, you know, I am not an expert. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a urologist, I'm not a pelvic floor physical therapy. Like, I don't have anything, any sort of actual training in this area.

You're an expert with your own pee.

Not even that. I mean, so I am not the expert here. And that was actually one of the reasons I was a little hesitant to do this episode because I was like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to make it seem like I'm an expert in this area that I'm not. But I also didn't want to bring a doctor on because that's kind of not really the vibe of our podcast. You know, we really don't have guests on at all. Like, so I'm just talking about my own experience. And again, like, the reason that I decided to do this is because once I started talking to some of my girlfriends about it, like, so many of my girlfriends were like, this is life changing information. Why did I not know this before? That friend that I mentioned earlier, she was like, I have now played your voice note for several other girls. It's like the voice note is like the. What is the Sisterhood of the traveling pants. It's like Sisterhood of the traveling peeing habits. Voice notes.

The traveling voice note from Vanessa.

So I'm telling you my story. Do your own research. Talk to your own doctors if this is something that you want to work on on your own. But yeah, so many people also reached out when we put that poll up. I think I specifically said I was like, I'm a little nervous to talk about this, but is it something you're interested in? Like, I don't know, maybe people are like, don't talk about that. I, you know, we want to just hear the sex and relationship stuff. But we got such a deluge of messages from people saying, please talk about this. I want to know. I want all the info. So we're doing it for you guys. Okay. So my story starts around 2020. I will say, like, my entire life, I've sort of thought of myself as somebody who, like, has a small bladder. I've always like, well, you're a small person. I'm a small person. Yeah. I'm like, oh, no, I have a small bladder. I just like, hehe. I don't know, I felt like I had to go kind of a frequent amount. But, like, nobody ever tells you what's normal. Like, how many times are you supposed to pee in a day?

Yeah, I mean, also, you're a small person, which means that you probably don't need as much water. Like, your bladder is proportionate to your size, I would imagine. I mean, like, a taller person probably has a larger bladder, but I don't know.

I don't think that would affect, like. But who? I don't know. I don't think that would affect, like, how often you have to pee like that. Smaller people.

Well, smaller people probably should drink less water than taller people.

Yeah.

But there's fewer cells that need.

It's all proportionate, though. Anyways. So I've always thought of myself as somebody who, like, kind of had to pee a lot. But around 2020, you know, we're in lockdown and we're also in this house that the layout of our house was such that my office, in order to get to my office, I had to walk by the bathroom.

Oh.

And I honestly think that that was a big factor in this. So I'm shy with you. Yeah, I would often, like, I would walk by the bathroom and I would kind of have this like, oh, I'm here, I might as well go. Or I'd like, be heading into the office on the way into a meeting, like, oh, I'll just go beforehand.

And then, I mean, if the door.

Was closed to the bathroom. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was just like, there's a bathroom. But that door to that bathroom was never really closed, though.

Yeah, No, I was. I was like, maybe we should have left that door closed. Hindsight's 20 20.

And it was like, yeah, after meetings, you know, I'd come out and also like, oh, I'm here. I might as well go. So I started realizing that I was just peeing a lot more often. So there got to a period where I realized, like, it kind of feels like I'm peeing, like, every hour. And there were even some times where it could be like, 30 minutes. And it was like the urgency started to come on. So previously it had been more of a like, oh, I'm here. I might as well go. But then I started feeling like, no, I really have to go. And it started feeling very confusing to me because I would be like, I just went, why do I feel like I have to go again? Especially those times where it was like 30 minutes, I'm like, I literally just went, how could I possibly have to go again? And there would be times that I would feel like I really had to go, and then I would actually go to the bathroom and not that much pee would come out. And so that would feel confusing too. Like, why am I. Why did I feel like I had to go so badly if actually I didn't really have to go?

Honestly, hearing you talk about this, I feel like I need to pee right now. And I think I went before this. I'm not gonna do it.

I've been trying to get on you about your peeing habits.

We can talk about mine after. After this. I'm more aware of it than I used to be, for sure. And I'm saying right now, you know, we're talking about peeing and needing to pee, even when you don't need to pee. And I'm thinking about it, if you.

Right now are listening and you're like, I kind of have to pee too, keep listening, because you probably have some peeing issues.

Keep listening and don't pee.

Okay. Then I started noticing other things too. So when I would get into the shower, I was always a pee in the shower kind of person, because it was like, you're saving water. I mean, we're both California kids, we grew up in the drought, being so conscious of, like, you gotta save water, right? So it was like, it just made sense to me. Go in the shower and you Pee in the shower. But what I noticed was, and this was a big turning point is I. I realized I'm getting into the shower and my bladder is just releasing, which you do. Which I really want to get on you about. But I was like, when was the.

Last time I peed in the shower?

I was like, I'm not even consciously thinking. I'm not like getting into the shower. Like, oh, I think I have to pee. Let me go pee. Like I was in the shower and I'm like, oh my God, I'm just peeing. And I didn't even realize it. And that freaked me out. So that happened. Yeah, you're right. You haven't peed in the shower for a while.

But you. I stopped. I completely stopped. Thanks to you.

Okay.

I did. I don't pee in the shower. Shower. And I don't pee when I surf.

Oh, very good though.

If I was in the tropics, I would pee. To be clear, I don't. I don't pee when I surf for other reasons. Because it destroys your wetsuit from the inside out.

The other thing I started noticing too was when I was washing my hands or like doing the dishes, like having water on my hands or even hearing water running, like that would get. Trigger this really strong urge to pee.

Well, I think that that's kind of normal. Like, if that seems to be normal. I feel like kids are always. It's like, you know, when someone has to pee, they're like, oh, turn the water on.

No, I mean, to my understanding, it's not. Then I started having to get up to pee in the middle of the night. And that really upset me because I'm such a baby about my sleep. I love my sleep.

That was a bridge too far.

And it was also really tricky in that house. This was when we lived in la. In that house, the bathroom was kind of far away and there was like a stair that you had to navigate to.

It wasn't that far. I would say it's.

I mean, it's down a hall.

I mean it was, it was en suite.

Yes, but it was, it was down a hall. So anyway, I think you might have.

To walk the same distance now.

Yeah, in our bathroom now. But still it was just like this, you know, I'm having to get up to do it and then I'm awake and I am having trouble getting back to sleep. So that started getting really frustrating.

To be fair, you had to walk literally from one corner of the house to the other. We had a, a two story, like basically A small square. And so Vanessa slept in one corner, and then she would walk along, you know, basically to the other corner. Yeah, not very far. But it's funny, it makes it sound worse like that I went from one corner of the house to the other.

So the other thing around, like, nighttime peeing was I had this weird thing in my head that I've had my whole life where I was very conscious of, like, I want to make sure I pee the last thing before I go to sleep. So that. That way I, like, I don't know, minimize my chances of having to get up in the middle of the night. And so I started doing this weird mind trick with myself of, like, if I went pee and then I got back into bed and I was in bed for like 10 minutes or 15 minutes, I didn't, like, immediately fall asleep. Then I was like, oh, I gotta get up and go pee again. So, like, I would go pee two to three times per night, even though I had, like, you know, like in.

The last hour before bed.

You mean? Yeah, if I didn't, like, immediately go to sleep. So I was like, kind of tricking myself into this. Like, I have to do it. I have to do it. I'm not done yet. Okay, so 2023 is when it's like, it was so slow, like, very, very slowly getting worse and worse and worse. And 2023 was the point where I was like, okay, now this is just full blown, like, an issue now.

You hit rock bottom.

I did. I hit water bottom, P. Bottom. So there were a couple of things. The main thing was that I started getting anxiety about peeing, which I'd never had before. So I started getting really anxious about being in situations where bathrooms weren't easily accessible. So when we were in quarantine, it was like, the bathroom was always accessible. We weren't going anywhere. We were in our house. That was never an issue. But then once we started being able to have a life again, it was like, oh, well, if I go out on this long hike with a friend, I'm not gonna be able to go to the bathroom. And I even started to get it with, like, car rides. You know, if we have to like, oh, we have a 20 minute drive. What if I have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the drive? Some of the worst times were actually on planes. So I'd get really anxious about, like, you know, when you're taking off and when you're landing, there's like 20 minutes where you're not allowed to get up and go to the bathroom that. That would, like, really freak me out. And I had a few instances, too, where I, like, I was so convinced that I had to pee so badly and was, like, almost in tears because I couldn't get up and go. And then, you know, once I finally was able to, it was like, I barely had anything to pee. Like, it was not an issue. But there were. Yeah, there were multiple times. And I think this is when I started talking to you about it. Cause there were times, like, in the car, we'd be driving back from, like, we had taken the dogs on the walk. And I'd be like, xander, drive faster. I have to get home. And, like, I was honestly, like, just so upset, like, in so much pain, so afraid. Unfortunately, I never did, like, you know, pee on myself, but, like, I was so afraid, like, I'm just gonna piss my pants in the car and, like, ruin the car because I can't hold it. I'd be, like, so anxious, almost in tears, like, in pain. It was awful.

I. I mean, I think that there were definitely instances where we were not even, like, on a road trip necessarily, but, you know, we were in la. You can get stuck in traffic in the car for a long time. You know, you'd be in the car, like, oh, my God, you know, an hour or two trying to get between one side of the city and the other. And. And I think, yeah, there were a number of situations where it was like, we're like, Babe, we're 10 minutes away from home.

Like, I'm not going to make it.

We're. We're going to be there so soon. Like, we can't stop now. And like, no, like, I think there were. There were times where we stopped, like, two to three minutes away from our house so that you could pee. And I was like, whoa, yeah, this is wild. Like, our bathroom is so much better. Just. I know we're almost there.

There were even times that I had that anxiety, like, mid conversation with somebody. Like, if I was talking to someone and I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my.

Go.

Going to pee. Like, when, you know, when can I cut them off and, like, tell them, like, hold on, I'll be right back, or it's going to be super awkward. That would be really stress. And then, of course, like, I'm not paying attention to the conversation and I'm being super awkward because I'm just trying to find, like, what's the moment that I can, like, do I need to jump in and interrupt somebody or can I wait until they, like, I Can't. You know, sometimes it felt like I don't know if I can even wait for them to finish their thought or finish their story that they're telling me.

Yeah, think back. Everyone listening. When was the last time someone interrupted you to tell you to shut up so they can go pee? That's probably never happened to most people.

And it started to affect work too, because I would get this anxiety about being able to last through a meeting. So even if I went pee right before the meeting, or even if I felt like I don't have to pee, but then I have an hour long meeting, you know, I start like, looking at the clock and getting really anxious about, like, when am I going to be able to leave? When am I going to be able to leave? And there were times that I just like, ended up leaving in the middle of meetings. Like, I'd be like, oh, sorry, guys, I gotta, like, give me one second. Like, come up with some dumb excuse or, like, just turn the camera off. So it was really affecting work and just, you know, feeling super embarrassing.

Fortunately, never had any of those, like, Covid era incidents like Zoom fails, you know, all these people using Zoom who never use Zoom or any, like, video chat software before, and going to the bathroom, leaving camera or audio on, never have one of those. Thank goodness.

Thank God.

That could have been a rock bottom.

And then I also started having to get up multiple times in the night. And that for me was really the final straw. Once, it was like two times a night, I was like, fuck this. I can't do this anymore. I gotta figure something out. So fortunately, I was following two accounts from two friends of ours that I wanna call out. One is Expecting and Empowered and one is the Vagina Whisperer. And both of them talk about pelvic floor issues and bladder issues. And I hadn't really, like, paid that much attention to their content before. But then I started realizing, like, you know what? I think maybe I have a pelvic floor issue. So I really appreciate those accounts where, like, if it weren't for them, I wouldn't even have known bladder stuff was an issue. Other people go through this. There are ways to treat it. I would have just thought, like, something is really wrong with me and I would have to.

You would have stayed anxious?

I would have. So what I learned from those accounts helped me realize, like, I need to do something about this. And not only that, but, like, there are things that I can do about this. All right, let's get honest. When was the last time you needed to go to A doctor. But you pushed it off and you made excuses like I'm too busy, it'll heal on its own. I don't need help, I don't know what doctor to go to. I think we've all been there. Booking doctor's appointments can be really stressful. It can just feel so daunting. But thanks to zocdoc, there is no reason to delay. They make it so easy to find and book a doctor who is right for you. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment online. They literally make it so easy. There are more than 100,000 doctors you can filter them so quickly for. Doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical need or concern you have, and are highly rated by verified patients. Then once you pick a doctor, you can see their actual openings. You can book fully online, no having to call on the phone, have those awkward phone calls and you can often get appointments really quickly, typically within just 24 to 72 hours, sometimes even same day bookings. We have been fortunate that we have not needed to see a doctor lately and have not had to make any excuses of not seeing a doctor. But next time we are in need of a doctor, we will definitely be using ZocDoc to make the process so much easier. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.compillow to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com pillow zocdoc.com/pillow. So I decided to go see a pelvic floor physical therapist. And at that point we had moved up here, so I found somebody who was really close to our house, who had great reviews online. And I had recommended pelvic floor physical therapy to lots of other people for other reasons, like sexual pain mostly. And I thought, you know what, like this would be great for me to experience firsthand myself so I at least get to know what it's really like since I'm recommending this to people. And I had this hunch that because of those accounts that I'd followed, I had a hunch, like I think that this is more of a bad habits issue rather than a specific physical issue. But I still want to get it checked out. So I go see the pelvic floor physical therapist and it was wonderful. Like I, I've always recommended pelvic floor physical therapy. I had a great therapist. I learned so Much. It was just such a great experience. I'm so glad that this entire industry exists.

So what did you do with them?

So, okay, first we did a physical exam. So it was very similar to when you go in for like your OB GYN exam. Like, she just inserted her fingers. She was great. Like, really walked me through it. I didn't feel any sort of discomfort about that. But I can imagine somebody who would, you know, feel nervous about getting a physical exam. Like, they really do a great job of setting you at ease. So she did a physical exam. It only took a couple of minutes and she was able to tell me right away, like, nothing is physically wrong with you. Like, your vaginal walls are great. Your pelvic floor is like perfect. There's no physical issue that is going on. So that was really helpful for me.

So it's all in your head.

So she told me. It's, it's, you know, it is likely that it is an issue with your habits. There's nothing physically wrong. It's an issue with your habits.

This is kind of like most of, most of the sex and relationship stuff that we do. It's like, like, I hate to break it to you, but probably nothing is physically wrong with you. Whether, you know. Yeah. Whether it is a woman or a man, anyone experiencing any kind of like performance issues or anything. So very often it is not a physical issue. We want it to be a physical issue because then that might mean there's a pill that we can take or there's a procedure or, you know, something that we can do. Anything but addressing the habits and the stuff inside of our head.

Yeah. So, yeah, she really taught me. She's like, the bladder is a very habit driven organ and it plays crazy tricks on your brain. And what you're essentially like. What I had been doing is I had been training my bladder to feel that. Okay, so think about the bladder like as a balloon that fills up with water with liquid pee, whatever. So she's like, you know, the bladder is supposed to get to. I can't remember the exact number. It's not, you're not supposed to have it like bursting full, but let's say like 80% or something like that. It's supposed to get to whatever, 75, 80% or something. And then start signaling to your brain, hey, getting pretty full down here. Time to like release. Right.

Kind of like how your car as it's running out of gas doesn't give you the like low gas signal until you're below a quarter of a tank. Right.

But she's like, because it's so habit driven, if you empty your bladder when you're at like, 50% or 25%. And again, I might be wrong about these exact numbers, but basically, if you're emptying your bladder before it's full, you are training your bladder to think, ah, let me send those alarm bells to the brain that I need to be emptied when I'm only half full or a quarter full. So essentially, that is what I had been doing by going to the bathroom all these times when I, like, didn't actually have to go. I was training my brain to think, ah. When I get a little bit full, I send the signal to the brain, hey, hey, let's go, let's go, let's go. Rather than it understanding, like, no, it's fine for it to get 75 or 80% or whatever of the way full. So that was fascinating to me. I had no idea that the bladder was such a little trickster. I just thought, like, if I feel like I have to go, that means I have to go. Even though I had been having lots of experiences with, like. Actually, that's not true. It just learning that the bladder does that, it was really interesting to me.

I got. I thought of a great pun. So the bladder is a. A cocoa pee pee. What, like cocopelle the trickster, isn't it? Cocopelle?

Oh, my God. That is the dumbest comparison.

Coco pee pee.

All right, a little Santa. Nobody knows what cocopelle is. Like, nobody knows. If you know what a cocopelle is, please DM us on Instagram so Xander can feel better about that incredibly lame joke.

Someone laughed. Someone laughed when they heard that someone. Someone can't stop laughing. And you're my person.

The one person. Our friend Derek. Okay, so the other really helpful thing that she had me do was she had me start tracking my water and my caffeine intake, and I learned that caffeine is a bladder irritant. There are other things that are actually.

I'd imagine, like alcohol. Like, if you drink alcohol, that that's probably another one that you'd want to track.

Yeah, I just went to look that up right now because I realized I didn't fill that in. Okay. Other things that are irritating to the acidic foods, spicy foods, caffeine, alcohol, artificial sweeteners, dairy products, and then other substances. Smoking, artificial fragrances. Ooh. I didn't know that. Certain medications like diuretics or decongestants, heat and humidity and stress. Okay. So for me, we very quickly narrowed in on the caffeine issue, Xander and I love our green tea. And we were drinking, like, a pot of green tea each, every morning and really, like, front loading the caffeine. Like, I was just sipping that green tea for a couple of hours in the morning.

So good.

And that was. I know it's so good, but it was really, really setting me off. So when she saw. And I think that was a combination.

Of caffeine and the water.

Lots of water, lots of fluid, and lots of caffeine.

I mean, probably not, I would say moderate amounts of caffeine. Green tea has so much less caffeine.

Well, that was the problem. I was like, oh, green tea doesn't have that much caffeine. It's not coffee. But I was drinking so much of it that it was actually a lot of caffeine and a lot of fluids.

Especially for a little girl like you. Yeah.

I mean, she made me do this little, like, bladder diary. And it was really annoying at first, but then once I see the data in front of me, I was like, like, oh, yeah. Like, she looked at it and she's like, you're drinking way too much caffeine. No wonder you feel like you have to pee all the time. So that was like a super easy thing that we did is just cut down on the caffeine. Now I have, like, one to. Sometimes I'll have 2 cups of green tea. I try to, like, drink it over a longer period of time. I try to take sips of water in between. But if even to this day, like, if I have. If I just down a cup of green tea, like, I'm gonna have to pee within an hour. Like, it just. It really is and irritant to the bladder. Then she also taught me strategies to slowly elongate the time in between trips to the bathroom. So what she told me is, like, we just want to, like, very slowly, you know, you got your way into this slowly. So let's, like, ease your way out of it slowly. So if you feel like you have to go to the bathroom at first, let's just see if you can last five more minutes. Like, set a timer and just try to wait five more minutes. And so she taught me a couple of strategies. Because at first, even five minutes was like, holy crap, I don't think I can, because the anxiety would kick in for me. It was like five minutes until I can go. Like, no, no, no, I have to go now. So she taught me a couple things. Like, one, just stand in place or sit in place and focus on your breathing. So sometimes like if you're moving around, like you just get that little bit of anxiety. So sitting in place helped me. Focusing on like deep breathing really helped me. And also doing Kegel exercises too. So squeezing on your kegel muscles and releasing. And she taught me like, you can do like quick little pulses. You can do like longer and slower holds. And I do wanna be really cautious with Kegels. Like this is definitely something that you need to get a specialized routine from a practitioner for. So don't just like repeat it just cause I did it. Because for some people actually the issue is that their pelvic floor is too tight. Doing Kegels creates more tightness and can be a bad thing. But for me, doing Kegels was really helpful.

This is, this is funny because this is literally the exact same advice you got in like, like drug and alcohol recovery, like for when you have a craving other than the Kegels. But you know, it's like often cravings do pass. It can feel very intense in a given moment. And so, you know, this isn't the only tip. Obviously there are many others, but usually the, you know, one of the first lines of defense is, okay, can I give myself five minutes to like see if this passes before moving on to perhaps more serious.

Did you do Kegels too?

No, I was saying everything. But, but the Kegels. I mean, I guess, I mean, honestly though, like probably doing, trying to do Kegels during that five minutes might be helpful. Do something to take your mind off of whatever else is happening. Like why am I, why am I squeezing down here? But huh, I guess I'm not thinking about whatever I was thinking about before.

I also found that. So in terms of movement, either sitting still or actually like having intense physical activity. So like kind of jogging in place this, the slower physical activity, like just walking around often didn't feel great for me. But if I jogged in place or did a few jumping jacks that often somehow kind of like reset my brain and help me last.

Your heart rate up gets your adrenaline going a little bit and you kind of forget about what was going on before.

And then another trick is to take the little webbing between your thumb and your index finger and like pinch that, like squeeze that or pinch that. That helped like delay the feeling sometimes too.

You know what, Weirdly I have a memory of like, you know, when I was a kid, I feel like my parents or my mom told me that like doing this, the doing that thing on the webbing of your hand, like if you're constipated. Well, like, make you poop.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Well, I struggled. I struggled with constipation a lot as a kid. So I think they might have told me whatever I needed to hear in order to get the job done.

Okay. So I also learned, like I said, stop peeing just because. So don't pee just because you happen to be near a bathroom or you're near a nice bathroom. Don't pee just because, like, oh, I'm running out to run some errands. I might as well go here before I leave. So, like, all the, you know, just I happened to be walking by the bathroom. All those pees, like, were really had caused a lot of the issues for me. I also learned not to power pee. This is actually not something that I do myself, but I want to mention it because a lot of other women especially.

Yeah, do tell. I'm really curious. I'd never heard this term before.

So power peeing is when you, like, you. You're forcefully pushing the pee out. You should not be pushing pee should be. You should just be, like, relaxing and letting the pee release from your body. So a lot of women, like moms especially, do this because it's like, gotta get it done. I gotta go. Like, there's so much going on. I just need, like, a quick second in here. So it's like you're trying to make it go faster. Like, let me get the pee out faster. But it's really bad for your pelvic floor. Just.

What about men? Do we know if the same applies for penises?

I mean, I don't think.

Because it feels great to power pee.

Oh, really?

No, I mean. Well, I mean, I think that. I think that if we're talking about pure flow, women can get a lot more liquid out faster than men can, because.

No, you should not. Power peeing can be harmful for men, leading to bladder muscle confusion, urinary tract infections, and even kidney damage over time.

Interesting.

Are you power peeing?

Well, not like, pow. I mean, I, like, let it come out. No, no. What I will say, though, is that there have been. I mean, I've taken a lot of the advice that you've given, and a lot of it is like, you know, I'm like, hey, it's in my head. I gotta pee. I'm just gonna hold it. I mean, I've taken a lot of your advice, which is, you know, understanding that this desire to pee is A lot of it is in my head. And I can try to tell Myself. Hey, you gotta last a little longer. Recently, I've been in a couple situations where I have needed to wait so long that I feel like I reach a point where I go to pee, and it feels like I. I feel like it's coming out relatively slowly, and I'm not feeling any sense of relief. Usually when I have to pee, there's a. There's a, like, a positive feel, a good feeling of relief of, like, ah. And I've noticed I've had a couple peas recently where I had to pee so bad and so much that it was not a relief. And it was, like, still uncomfortable as I'm. As I'm peeing and so we can talk about that.

Actually, yeah.

I'm like, oh, this. This is a sign that I've waited too long, I think, because it's like, yeah, it doesn't really feel good. I'm like. It doesn't feel like I'm able to even, like, get it out very quickly. So. But, yeah, no power peeing.

Stop power peeing then. And then I also made the personal decision to stop peeing in the shower. So I've actually seen very many mixed opinions on this. I think the vagina whisperer is actually pro. Not pro, but, like, she. And I'm sorry if I'm misquoting her, but I feel like maybe she says it's okay to pee in the shower.

And there's great to pee in certain.

Circumstances, but, like, you definitely don't want to be doing what I was doing, where it's like you're just releasing and not even being thoughtful about it.

Yeah, I mean, I was really resistant when you started telling me about this. I was resistant to stopping peeing in the shower because it's so enjoyable. Something about it. It feels. It feels really enjoyable to me. But when. When I got really honest with myself, it's like. It's like, yeah, I pee in the shower. 100 of the time that I get in the shower. It's not. And that's clearly not a coincidence. It's not like, oh, I only take a shower when I need to pee. It's like, no, I take a shower at. You know, I. I take showers at kind of inconsistent times, day to day. It depends on my schedule. If I'm going surfing, if we're going to the gym, all kinds of things. So it's not like, oh, I always shower at this time, and therefore I have to pee. I was like, yeah, no, I always pee. I can't think of any situations where I got in the shower and didn't pee, even if I had just gone pee like, 10 minutes before. So, yeah, I've clearly made some kind of association or habit around that.

Yeah. Okay. So once I had all this information, all these tools, like, it did, there was a Definitely, like, an immediate, pretty good improvement. And then it took. I would say, honestly, it took probably a year of just being really thoughtful about this to, like, kind of build myself back up into a healthy place. So it could be totally different for different people. Obviously, everybody's unique. Everybody's journey is going to be a little bit different, but just want to, like, give that context that it did. I felt relief, and I could feel that things were moving in a good direction, but. But I'd say it probably took, yeah, about a year for me to feel like, oh, I've really got, like, a handle on this now. So then the next part of my journey was I swung a little too.

Far to the end of the classic overcorrection.

Overcorrection? Yeah. I went to the other end of the pendulum a little too much. And I think that I was so. I was feeling really proud of, oh, I'm able to last, like, a long time. And I kind of got it into my head that, like, the longer you can go between peds, the better. And so I started developing some of that, like, this frequency or not a frequency, but, like, I was getting a little bit of, like, a burning sensation when I had to pee that was making me feel nervous. So I decided I was like, you know what? Why don't I just go see a urologist? Just, like, cover all my bases. I never saw a urologist before. Let me just kind of check in. So I had this appointment, and I want to be honest, like, it was a horrible appointment. This doctor. It was hard to find a urologist in Santa Barbara. There weren't that many. And this doctor had. She had the worst bedside manner of any doctor that I've ever, like, personally gone to. She was just really gruff. I feel like she had no respect for the fact that, like, this is such a vulnerable issue and it is hard to talk about and kind of embarrassing to talk about. And she went on these freaking rants that had nothing to do with me. Like, I would mention. You know, I'd mention something, and then she'd, like, just go off on this rant. Like, she went on a rant about me about drinking water and how, like, people are so obsessed with drinking water and they're carrying around their gallon jugs and they're Trying to drink five gallons of water. And who the hell told Be like, she's what? Like, long rant about how people are drinking too much water? And I was like, I didn't say anything about, like, drinking too much. Like, I don't carry those gallon jugs. I don't know. So she was like, ranting about all this random stuff that didn't really have anything to do with. She was clearly just like a really burnt out practitioner. But she said like a number of times, like, I think I mentioned something about, you know, well, I want to be able to like, last as long as I can in between sessions. And she's like, that is stupid to think that way. Why would you think that? You, like, if you have to pee, just go pee. It is so stupid to think that you should be pushing yourself. That, like, she literally called me stupid. She called me an idiot. Like, it was really humiliating.

So you overcorrected and she overcorrected.

Majorly overcorrected. And I want to bring this up because I, like, I feel like I'm a pretty confident person. I don't have any issues speaking my mind. I stand up for myself. I speak up for myself. But I crumpled in that appointment. Like, I was so embarrassed and I felt so ashamed that I just, like, I just stopped talking and I just kind of like sat there and just took it, like, listened to her rants and didn't say anything. Like, I did not stand up for myself. I did not call her out on it. And of course it's like I left the appointment and I did that classic, like, like replaying the entire appointment. Like, I should have said this and I should have said that. And then I felt this, like, secondary wave of shame for, like, wow, I didn't stand up for myself. Like, I didn't advocate for myself. I didn't call her out on, like, being such a terrible person. Like, I did nothing. And that was. Yeah, it just felt like, really shameful and embarrassing. And I just want to mention it because I think that's unfortunately an experience that, that most people can relate to. Like, struggling to stick up for yourself, struggling to advocate for yourself. Having a doctor that, like, you feel like just doesn't get you or isn't treating you with kindness or compassion. And I understand, like, doctors are really burned out and they're humans too, but unfortunately, like, there are a lot of really shitty experiences that people have. And that one that just sucked. It really sucked. So I'm just a gentle reminder to myself and to everybody. Like, it Is it is important to advocate for yourself and to be willing to, you know, have those tough conversations. And it's also really understandable if you're just in that moment. Like, I don't. I don't know how to handle this situation. It just can be really tricky. All that being said, she did give me one very valuable piece of information, which was recognizing. Like, it didn't. I had, like, kind of turned it into this weird competition with myself of, like, how long can I last? And she's like, look, you've done a ton of work. You sound like you're in a totally different place than you were when you, you know, started this whole thing. Like, don't feel like. Don't feel like peeing is a failure. Like, it's not a bad thing. If you have to pee, go pee.

Yeah, you're gonna have to pee some number of times a day.

Be thoughtful about it. And now you have all these tools and techniques and resources to, like, be thoughtful about it. But she's like, even if you, like, 80% of the time, you're being pretty good about it. And 20% of the time, like, you. You know, you do it just because Pete, like, that's okay. It's not going to kill you. So that was useful to me to just get that.

Yeah, I mean, I think what she. She was kind of saying, like, yeah, if you're about to get in the car and drive for a couple of hours.

Yeah.

And you peed an hour and a half before, and you're thinking, I shouldn't go pee now, knowing, well, I'm gonna have to pee, and in 45 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. She said in a really rude way, if you know that you're about to get in a car and you don't want to have to stop, like, yeah, go pee. Go pee before you get in the car.

And she also gave me this very nifty little tool. Basically, I think they call it a hat. But it was this little plastic tub that I put into the toilet so I could measure how much I was peeing. And she told me, I can't remember the exact measurements, but I think it was something like, if it was like, if you're over 450 milliliters, like, you probably held it for too long. And I did it. The first time that I used it, I was like, 600 milliliters.

And I was like, bad girl.

Okay, got it. So that was helpful for getting it into my head of, like, okay, it's okay to pee. It's okay to Pee. This episode of Pillow Talks is brought to you by Alloy Women's Health. I've been seeing so much more information about menopause lately, which I really appreciate because it's just something that has not been talked about nearly enough. And there are so many different symptoms that you can experience during perimenopause and menopause. I just found out that almost half of women went over three years but before seeking relief from menopause or perimenopausal symptoms, which is such a bummer because there are treatments and solutions. So that's why we're so excited to introduce you to Alloy, which helps you live your best, healthiest life through menopause and beyond. Offering unlimited access to experts and safe science backed treatments for your symptoms. Skin, hair, sexual wellness, delivered straight to your door. Everything is done online from the comfort of your home. No waiting for an appointment or in line at the pharmacy. So here's how it works. You complete a short medical questionnaire and patient verification and design your treatment plan with a physician. So you work with a menopause trained physician to finalize a personalized treatment plan. Then you get a three month supply of any prescriptions that you need delivered directly to your door with automatic refills. I have not personally hit the perimenopause stage yet, but I'm so grateful to know that resources like Alloy exist and we'll definitely be checking them out once I get there. I cannot recommend aloe enough. Join the 95% of women who tried aloe and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloy.com pillow and tell them all about your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan and you'll get 20% off your first order. Today head to my a l l o y.com pillow and enter code PILLOW to get 20 off your first order. Okay, so I am now at the end of my bladder health journey.

Yeah. Where is she now?

I'm drinking less caffeine. I'm having like normal length of time in between pees, which is about like two to four or five hours.

Yeah, so you're peeing less but you're peeing a little more than you were before.

Yeah, I was like really pushing more of that like 5 hour mark before and like now I'm, you know, I'll be that way maybe later in the day when I'm drinking less fluid. Oh, that's one thing that I forgot to mention too. It's like drink less fluid at the end of the day too. I Was like drinking water, you know, up to like 8, 9pm yeah, that.

Was tough for me. I love drinking. I feel like I'm thirstiest at the end of the day.

Yeah, I know. I mean, you still.

I don't struggle with.

Yeah, try not to, try not to drink too much near the end of the day. I think initially my pelvic floor physical therapist said like, like around six is a good time to like start tapering down. Not that you can't drink after six, but like start tapering down. Don't drink quite as much. So yeah, now when I feel like I have to pee, I usually try to wait around like I don't know, 10 minutes or so. And if I still have to pee, then I'll just go ahead and go. But sometimes I notice like that initial urge. It's still like little remnants of my bladder being like, we're just 30% full. Maybe we could go now.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely relate with that one because it's like often I'll be like, oh, I have to pee. But then I'll think, oh, this is like not a convenient time. Or like I'm in the car or I'm doing something, like I'm gonna like, I know I'm gonna have an opportunity to pee in half an hour. Like you can hold it. And it's like if I just concentrate for a couple of minutes on holding it, then I will often forget that I even had.

It's like a little, it's a little gut check. I'm not having anxiety about like not having access to the bathroom every once in a while. I do, but most part I don't.

And well, everyone has anxiety every once in a while. That is okay.

And typically I'm not getting up in the middle of the night to pee. Like sometimes I'll get into. Oh, I forgot another strategy about that. Um, I will get into. It's. It's very pattern based for me too. Like there'll be maybe once a month I will go in the middle of the night and then I'll have to go like the next night. And I maybe the next night too. But then I can like know how to break the pattern. Okay.

So I think, whoa, I want to. What I want to say about that. I feel like, like, I mean, I'm curious if you, if you in your research or what, you know, if you can see a difference between this. I feel like for me with peeing in the middle of the night, if I'm sleeping through the night and I'm not like, waking up and. And, like, struggling to fall back asleep in the middle of the night. Like, it's much easier to not need to pee. It's very rarely or randomly, like, maybe once or twice a year, I'll wake up in the middle of the night, like, oh, my God, I have to pee. And then I'll go pee. Because it's not, you know, that's not, like, a pattern for me. But what I found personally is, like, if I do wake up in the middle of the night and am not able to fall back asleep within, you know, a couple of minutes, very often I will end up needing to pee. It'll feel like, oh, I can't hold it anymore. Whereas I, you know, I might need to pee in the middle of the night. I can hold it really well. If I'm, like, immediately falling back asleep, I can kind of be aware of it and be like, nope, hold that. And like, boom, I'm back asleep. And then by the time I wake up in the morning, I feel like I don't even need to pee as much as I did before. But, yeah, for me, it's like, if I'm lying in bed in the middle of the night awake, like, I'll just be like, okay, fine, I will go pee so that I'm not thinking about this.

Maggie's fascinated by your story. She, like, jumped up to listen.

Great. I'm glad you like to listen to me, Maggie.

Okay, I forgot to mention the technique that I used in the middle of the night, though. So if you wake up in the middle of the night and you feel like you have to pee, lay flat on your back and, like, push your body into the bed, like, especially your legs and your arms. And, like, you could do it with the palms of your hand and, like, the soles of your feet. If you kind of push yourself into the bed and, like, just kind of create a little bit of muscle tension and then relax. Like, relax and let it go and then push again. Create that tension. Like, I usually found that if I did that maybe, like, five to 10 times, then the feeling of needing to pee would pass. So that is my. My peeing journey. So top recommendations here? Definitely see a pelvic floor physical therapist, do your own research, Check out Expecting an Empowered and the Vagina Whisperer, and learn more about your bladder. And ultimately, I just want people to realize that this is a totally common thing to struggle with, and we shouldn't have any shame about it. So let's talk more openly.

You might pee alone, but you are never alone.

You are full of the cheese today.

Well, I did eat some jalapeno cheesy puff snacks right before this. So bad. Oom Cho, the course.

All right. Well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you for coming along my bladder journey with me. And join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.