EPISODE 218 Got the Ick? Why It Happens in Relationships + What to Do About It pt. 2

My husband randomly takes his out and flops it around as a form of communicating that he is thinking about sex. It gives me the ick.

Ah, the old flopperoonie.

Is that the actual technique?

Yeah, the flop a rooney.

An advanced initiation technique all men know about.

The flopperoonie.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

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We're back.

We're back today to talk more about the ick. So if you missed last week's episode, we did a deep dive on getting the ick in relationships, which is it's really has been used more as a dating term. Like you're on your second or third date with somebody and they do something like something small, but it just feels weird. It gives you the ick, makes you not interested in continuing to see come back from it. Yeah, but we started talking about getting the ick in the context of relationships.

Because we talk about that now. Now that people. Now that's so common in dating. I think we start to use that language in long term relationships too. The problem is in a long term relationship, most people aren't like, oh, I got the ick. So I got a divorce. It's like, I have the ick now. What do I do since I can't like not date this person. Like I would if I was just starting to date them.

So we ended up having so much fun in that episode. We were intending it for it to be one episode where we gave like a little bit of background about the ick and then went into some of your stories. But we went on such a deep dive and all these different, like, rants and tangents about the ick that by the end of it we really only ended up getting to two of like our 20 questions that had been sent in.

Yeah, we got hung up on. We kind of listed out a lot of like, just like short, like sentence long, like I got the ick from blah, blah, blah. We were just talking about what some common ones. There were some. There were some wild ones where I'm like, okay, I get that that's an Ick. But like, this is on you for putting yourself in this situation. Like, like the way my husband wipes his butt. It's like, so what? Like, don't watch him wipe his butt.

Why are you there if you didn't listen to that episode? You absolutely have to. I would recommend listening to that one first and then come back and listen.

As much as we'd love to have you here right now with us, but stay with us.

Just go back in time to a week ago.

Stay with us. Come to us a week ago.

So we finished that episode and we're like, oh my God, we just want to keep going. So we decided, you know what, let's just squeeze another one in. Let's do the ick part two. So that is what today is all about. We're just going to get right into the questions that you guys sent in about getting the ick in your long term relationship. And if you're brand new here, sorry, we don't usually do like an immediate part two, but. Hi, I'm Vanessa. I'm a sex therapist. I've been in this field for over 20 years. It's like, it's really getting up there now. What, 23 years? That's crazy. And who are you?

I'm her husband. I've been, I've been with Vanessa for about 18 years. I got none of those qualifications. I'm a regular guy, I'm a husband. But I'm also a little more than a regular guy. You know, I've been with this woman, this beautiful, wonderful, wonderful sex therapist and wife for a very long time. We talk about a lot of dynamics that happens in relationships, in people's sex lives. We've had all that come up in our own sex life, our own relationship. We've worked through pretty much all the things that come up in long term relationships, and we've come out the other end stronger for it. And so, yeah, I just like to kind of bring the regular person perspective to what we do.

Or the dynamic duo. I don't think we can call ourselves a dynamic duo.

I wasn't gonna say that, but I.

Was trying to say, like, you know, we've got the balance of one person who has the professional experience, education, the training, and one person who has like the lived human experience.

So, like, we hit it from both ends?

Yes, we hit it from both ends. I can't decide what's more embarrassing, you saying that or me saying we're a dynamic duo. We're both cringy. Okay, let's get into these Cringy questions. Then I'll read the first one. My boyfriend constantly belches and farts, all on purpose, not accidents.

Oh, I have questions about that.

He has less than desirable showering regularity after sweaty outings like golf or mowing the lawn, and will frequently try to initiate sex. We live in Maine where there are ticks and you have to check yourself after doing yard work or really anything outside. Today, actually, he asked me to look him over for ticks and he took off his underwear, moving around his balls, then turned around and pulled his butt cheeks open to be funny, only for me to see he was not entirely clean. Oh, boy. She means poop, right?

I don't know. Why are you asking me that question? What else? I mean, like, full of tics.

I'm scared. Can you imagine if you saw poop all over my butthole?

Yeah.

I mean, could you ever like.

I think I could.

There was no hesitation there. You're just like, no, it's fine. Yeah, you come back from it.

I mean, it's just a butthole. I see your butthole all the time.

How bad would it have to be to not be?

I mean, that. That is a solid question in order to visually see that it's not clear. It's like you didn't wipe at all.

And it's like.

I mean, I don't even know what it looks like. I mean, I know what it looks like on the toilet paper, but yeah.

Okay, I have to continue.

Wow. Vanessa has the ick right now.

I have more than I.

She's aching hard.

He's 54.

Time to. Time to grow up, buddy.

Wait, 54? That's why I thought this was like a 27 year old dude. 54, bro. Oh, my God. He's 54 and finds all this funny. I do not and have said so many times, he says I am who I am and I'm not changing. These are the most frequent examples of the ick for me, and it has completely turned me off. I do not see him sexually or in an attractive way. I have tried to get myself into a better mental space and to look beyond these situations, but I just can't. It's all I see and think about when he attempts initiation. He has improved on the farting and burps after my confrontation, but it's not consistent. I am out of ideas on how to get into a better headspace, but I feel it could be too far gone.

Might be.

Okay, what do you. What's your take on this?

This is. This is a super, super super valid ick.

Yeah.

I mean, it's more than an it. Like, I think that's the thing though, is that, like, this is. This is kind of the problem that I have with the ick as a concept is like, really the ick should be used for, like, this is like some random thing that happened that many people might not find particularly off putting or just like a weird thing that, like, for whatever reason I found that I reacted really poorly to it or I couldn't unsee it or whatever. You know, if I was out at brunch with my friends, maybe some of them would agree with me, but some of them would be like, I don't really see what the big deal is. But it's become such a popular term and it's. I mean, I understand why, because it's some. It's something that we all relate to that sort of like, oh, God, I can't unsee that. So we apply it to more things. So I understand. And I mean, I want to validate the hell out of this person. This is. This is a challenging. A very serious, challenging situation to put up with in your marriage. And it's especially challenging because you two are seeing it in very different ways.

It's a boyfriend.

Yeah, okay, it's a boyfriend. Sorry, It's a boyfriend. Maybe that makes it a little easier what I'm going to suggest doing. But yeah, I mean, I would say not only is this icky, this is more than just the ick.

Yeah, I think this is more than just the ick, too. And I think it's like he's saying, this is who I am and I have no interest in changing it. He's attaching some sort of identity to this. It's not just like, oh, yeah, whatever, like, farts are normal. It's human nature. It's like, this is who I am. This is part of my identity. I think this stuff is funny.

Yeah.

And so if you're not somebody who finds this funny or attractive, I think you're kind of shit out of luck here.

Yeah, I mean, I would my just real simple response or retort or whatever to, you know, that, hey, this, I am who I am. Take it or leave it. Is. You're get, like, what you're giving me is child vibes like. Like, I am like a mother. You are my child. You're a dirty. Like a dirty little boy. Not in a sexy way.

Yeah.

And I don't have any interest in dating a child. So if. If that's who you are, then we're going to have to, you know, like, I'm gonna have to seriously think about moving out or, you know, being done with this relationship. You know, I think, unfortunately, this person is. Is kind of being. It's. I think it's a kind of manipulative behavior when you're like, oh, like, I am who I am. Because what you're basically. You're kind of, like, gaslighting the other person and being like, your experience is invalid. And not only that, but, like, I. This is who I am, and you need to accept me.

Yeah.

For who I am. So, yeah, I would. I. Yeah. And so, I mean, yes, you can take it. He's basically saying, take it or leave it. And I think you have to call the bluff and say, well, yeah, for me, my experience is that this feels like you're my child. I have to clean. You know, I'm like. Like, you're like a gross child, like, going through puberty or, like, prepubescent child. And that's. There's nothing sexy or attractive about that. I mean, I think that you give them a chance. It literally has to be a threat, like a threat of breakup. Like, I can no longer be in a relationship with a child. So you have to decide, is this who you want to be without me, or are you open to reconsidering?

Yeah, I mean, I guess I would. It's tough because it sounds like this person has. Has tried to address it in a lot of different ways, but I wonder if bringing up the sexual attractiveness aspect of it might be effective if you haven't already. Sometimes, especially with men, not to be too stereotypical. Even that is very stereotypical. But sometimes with men, like, making the connection to your sex life helps them see it in a different way. Especially if he thinks this is just, like, a funny thing. Like, oh, it's just funny, you know, farts are hilarious.

Pooping my butt is hilarious.

I don't know who thinks that. But, yeah, like, I think tying it to that and saying, you know, I find it. I respect who you are, and I respect, you know, that you find these things funny. The challenge that I am coming across is that it has a real impact on my desire, on my attraction to you, on our sex life. Like, it's making me not want to connect with you. And, you know, can you see a way around this? Can you see some sort of compromise that we could come to? Maybe that's a way to get through to him. But if he's gonna be really insistent about, like, I'm not changing this, then I think that's it's gonna be a tough decision for you. Of, like, is this something that you can put up with or is it.

I mean, you're saying this, you're already.

Saying you can't, and it's already feeling like it's too far gone, which.

Yeah, I mean, I think you gotta be ready to walk away. Yeah. Unfortunately. Sorry.

Oh, this is a really tough one. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, I mean, hygiene stuff can be tough. We have a episode from, I think, towards the very beginning of Pillow Talks history about hygiene. And hygiene can be a really tricky one because there can be a big mental health component to people who are having a struggle with hygiene. It can be tied in with all kinds of stuff with, like, self worth, body confidence, depression, mental health.

Yeah.

What you're describing here does not sound like any of that, which is why we haven't mentioned that up till now. It sounds like this is. This isn't like, oh, I'm, you know, struggling to be motivated to shower because I'm super depressed. It sounds like this is who I am. Ha ha ha. I was about to do it. Try to do a little fart sound, but I missed. I'm not gonna do it. Ew.

Okay.

Vanessa just got the ick.

Understandably, I'm sorry. This is really tough.

Yeah.

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Okay. Up next, what if his kink kind of gives me the ick?

Oh, kind of, Kind of.

I have questions about the kind of part knowing what's coming next. One time my husband gave me oral after he had finished inside of me and licked his own cum from my areas. And I for real thought he is actually gay. And that kind of gave me the. There's some. It's funny, like, going straight to gay. You go straight to gay and it's like. So like, that feels kind of extreme. Usually that's an extremely negative thing when you. It is not negative to be gay. When someone is throwing that out as, oh, he did something that I thought was gay, that's usually like a pretty extremely negative thing. And then you're like, kind of gives me the egg.

Oh, my God. Sometimes there's just a real poetry to the way you guys write things. It's just like we went on a little journey in two sentences.

I love you. Tried to start soft and then just went in.

Okay, so first, let's address the sexuality aspect of it. So somebody like a man licking. Also, I love that she said out of my areas. Licking come out of your areas. That does not make someone inherently gay.

Yeah, I mean, like, are. Is a woman gay if she. If she like, gives a blowjob, like after he's been inside of her? Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's an. That could be a comparison for sure.

I mean, I've never. I have never heard a guy be like, oh, my God, dude, we were having sex and then. And then she sucked on my dick. And now I'm. She. She tasted herself and I think she actually might not be in the dick, even though. Even though it sure seemed like she was in the moment, but she licked herself.

She must be a lesbian.

She must be secretly lesbian. Huh? Have you ever, ever, ever heard somebody even remotely.

Justice for Come Lickers.

That's right. Justice. Come liquor justice. Okay, so if this is your first episode on Pillow Docs, welcome. Oh, my God.

Welcome.

This is the Come Lickers Anonymous cla.

Okay, so first of all, to reiterate, like Xander said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, but your sexual orientation is defined by the people that you are attracted to and want to have sex with and is something that you and only you get to define.

Yeah. So I think the only question I would have is, well, what would. What would your husband have to say? Would your. Does your husband.

If your husband Says he's straight, then he's straight. Like, he gets to define his own identity. It's defined by the people, not by the sexual acts. I feel like we talked about this a couple weeks ago with. There was, like, a guy who wanted to be pegged and his wife had, like, the same concern. Like, it's not about the acts. It's not about the body parts. It's about the people that we are attracted to and having sex. Sex with. So, no, him licking his own cum from your areas does not mean that he's actually gay. Now let's. Let's look at the ick aspect of it. If you didn't like that, that's totally fine. You can set a boundary and say, like, hey, you know what? That's actually not something that I'm really interested in doing going forward, that's totally fine. You get to decide that for yourself.

I mean, it's not. It's not her come though.

Get out of here. It's her area. Yeah, if he wants to pull out and come somewhere else, he is welcome to do whatever he wants with his own cum. But, yeah, if it's on her body, he doesn't get to do it.

Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, you kind of got to take ownership of your own discomfort.

But I wonder, I do wonder, like, is her discomfort around thinking, oh, is he secretly gay? Or is it actually around, like, I didn't like the sensation of you licking me after oral sex?

Well, that's not what the person said. They're pretty focused on him licking cum.

Well, no, it doesn't say, I didn't like that he licked his cum. It said, like, I thought he's gay. I mean, if they very well could not like it, I'm guessing that they didn't like it. If they had liked it, it probably would have been like, I really liked it. But I'm scared that maybe this means he's secretly gay. So I'm guessing you didn't like it. And again, you're allowed to not like it and you're allowed to say, I don't want. I don't want to do that going forward, that's totally fine. But I do wonder if, knowing that this doesn't say anything about his sexual identity, I wonder if that changes things for you at all.

Well, to be really clear, whether there is cum or not inside of you, it doesn't really change the sensation of oral sex.

Well, that's why I think it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, it's just like, it's not a yeah. If you like oral sex. Yeah, you should like him licking his own cum. Like, there's not really any difference for you other than just knowing that there's. There's.

Yeah.

Something there.

I mean, if you want to get mathematical about it.

Oh, God.

Okay, in your theory, in your theoretical world where licking come equal, like, brings you in the gay direction, he was also licking your juices, which I do have to say, takes him in the other. In the straight direction. Right. Your lubrication, that takes him in the straight direction. So at the very least, these two cancel out.

Okay, let's move on to the next one. My husband randomly takes his penis out and flops it around as a form of communicating that he is thinking about sex. It gives me the ick.

Ah, the old Flop a Rooney.

Is that the actual technique?

Yeah, the Flop a Rooney.

An advanced initiation technique.

All men know about the floperoonie.

Sandra, why do men do this? Why do men think that just flopping around your flaccid penis is gonna get us so turned on that we just have to have sex with you in that moment?

I mean, they didn't say anything about it being flaccid. It's kind of hard to flop an erect penis. To be fair, I'm pretty sure it's flaccid.

Why do men do this?

Do this because they do not feel comfortable with verbal initiation. It's kind of being stuck in. Stuck in the teenage years, stuck in that developmental era where barely anybody really talked openly about sex with the person you might be having any kind of sexual experiences with. Right. Like, you just kind of did it because it was so awkward, but you wanted to do it so bad. And I think that it's time that your husband learns how to initiate sex with his words. That's not to say that verbal initiation is the only type of acceptable initiation, but I think what this is showing us is an extreme discomfort with any kind of, like, more literal type of initiation. Because really, it's a fear of rejection. It's kind of pivoting from something that actually feels vulnerable. Like, hey, I'd love to connect with you. Are you open to having sex where someone might say, no, I don't want to? And then you are kind of stuck with the, oh, I just. I asked for sex and I got rejected. Now you can still get rejected when you do the flop a Rooney. But here's the thing. You've just done the Flop a Rooney. You have plausible deniability sex. I was just flipping my dick around. I wasn't trying to initiate suck with you. God is. Aren't you weird, right? I can't believe you would think I wanted sex. I am just flopping my dick on the table, right? So it's like, it's like you can kind of. You don't. It's a way of hedging your bats. You don't have to really feel that let down when they are understandably not super turned on by the flopper rooney. Now to be really clear though, this isn't like a. This isn't like a well thought through thing. Like men are not like secretly in their heads. Oh my God. I really don't want to verbally initiate. So I have a great idea. I'm going to make a gross crude joke out of it so that I don't have to feel let down. But that's like what's going on subconsciously.

Yeah. I think we don't give men enough credit for how vulnerable initiating sex is. And in male female relationships, it is most often the man doing the vast majority of the initiation. Of course, not always, but in most relationships it is. And it's really difficult to put yourself out there and be vulnerable in your initiation. And so, yeah, exactly like you're saying, it can feel easier to make it, you know, some dumb joke that has some plausible deniability around it. But that being said, this would give me the ick too. It's like, it's so not sexy. It's not attractive. It's not like intimate or connecting. It's just gross, to be totally honest. So I do think it's really important for us to learn more effective initiation techniques. So I would highly recommend that you guys listen to episode 198. Stop doing this. If you want more sex initiation fixes, you need to know. Or you can also check out our membership deeper@vmtherapy.com deeper. We have an entire course that walks you through how to initiate sex in better ways. We actually have 61 different initiation techniques. We go through all of these, like really important things to know about how to do initiation properly because.

And do it in a way that your partner is going to react well to. Not like, not, you know, it's not like, oh, here's what I feel comfortable with right now. It's like, here's what's actually going to set me up best based on what I know my partner is into. Yeah, okay. The only bone I want to throw here is I want to be really clear. It's possible that Maybe that there's some sort of, like, kink or fantasy behind being a little juvenile, flopping your dick around. If that's the case, there. There. Maybe there's something valid here. If there's some, like, fantasy or scene that you want to play out, but that requires advanced communication and not just like, I'm just gonna flop my dick around all the time. And it also. If you want to play that out, if this. If you're like, oh, actually, this is this whole fantasy I've been fantasizing about. And, like, I really just want my partner to, like, to, like, catch on to exactly what I'm wanting. They're not going to catch on to exactly what you're wanting without you communicating it to them. And if you want to play that scene out, whatever that scene is, I'm kind of struggling to think of exactly what it is.

This is a real stretch.

I'm really trying to throw a bone here. But if that's the case too, I think you are also going to have to. To initiate sex in a way that your partner would enjoy most of the time in order for them to feel like, oh, okay, my partner knows how to do this in the way that I like. I would be very happy to indulge him every now and then or sometimes or more often with this specific thing that he likes to do, but you gotta communicate. All right, bone throne, I think we can safely move on. Yeah, I really like to see the best in people. I really like to see the best in people. And in every situation, it's like, okay, is. You know, there could be some valid corner case here. I mean, you were. You. You kind of threw a weird bone out in the last one where you're like, if you didn't like the way it felt when he was going down on you because of the cum.

Okay. All right, let's go to the next one. This is a nice, long one here.

Okay. Okay.

Oh, my goodness. This topic feels so well timed for me. Backstory. I am 5 months postpartum with our first baby. My husband is the most wonderful and supportive partner. He was especially wonderful at not making me feel icky, embarrassed, or ashamed about any of the body stuff during pregnancy, labor, delivery, and postpartum.

Great job.

Great job. We love to hear it. He's a medical provider, and it's really important to him that I feel comfortable with all the normal body stuff that happens and happened during pregnancy delivery, postpartum. And this man walked the walk. I'm talking wiped my ass, cleaned up my vomit, and My blood. Childbirths and postpartum are not pretty.

Hey, so you were just asking me, like, what would happen if I. If you spread your butt cheeks and I saw poop in them. Right? So some. Clearly, some people can get through it.

Well, this is a totally different scenario. Like, she needs help going, and he's like, helping clean her up properly versus someone who's like, I don't care enough to wipe my own ass. This is totally different. Get out of here. Also, I can't stop thinking about this one. Like, it's very. Like, wouldn't that be so uncomfortable to just have shit in your ass crack all the time?

Every now and then there's mistake. There's like a mistake or something. It is. Yeah. It feels like. It doesn't feel good. It feels like there's some lubrication back there. And it's like, oh, this is not good.

Lubrication.

Not lubrication, but it's like, what kind.

Of poop are you pooping?

Well, I mean, it's like a little.

The dance that you just did.

Back me up here, guys. All the guys listening. Tap into the best of us. It's very easy to rectify. You just gotta go to the bathroom, use a little more toilet paper.

I mean, every.

Every. Every now and then you can. You're like, ooh. You know, for a minute, you're like, oh, am I, like, sweating or something? And you're like, no, I don't usually sweat in my butt crack. I can't.

This is so gross. This is actually a secret about us, is that we. There's a lot of poop talk in our relationship. I don't mind. I actually, like, don't mind poop talk. It doesn't like.

I'm glad you don't mind because it's. There's even more of it amongst the rest of your family.

I know my family. We always wind up talking about poop. And my mom will just like. She's like, every time we land on poop every time, but we keep doing it. I don't mind the poop talk, but I would mind if you had bad hygiene around your white baby.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I still. Every time I catch that, I'm fixing that immediately.

Oh, my God.

Well, because it's warm in your butt area, so, you know, it's like, probably melt in the.

I can't.

Melted chocolate.

Okay, we're going. We're going back. We're going back.

We're probably, like, losing listeners at this point.

I know this is gonna be like, our stats are going worst listened to episode ever. People will never come back. Please come back. We won't talk about poop anymore. I promise. Okay, where did it. Where did I go? Okay, so it's right after wiping my ass, babe. Okay, now I am five months postpartum and my sex drive has never been lower. I have struggled with pelvic floor pain, but also just really low desire. And to make it trickier, I get the ick all the time from him doing normal body stuff. This is stuff that didn't used to bother me or barely bothered me. The worst things are when he toots or picks his nose. I feel like this combo of ick, disgust and rage. And I hate my reaction. It feels so unkind to him. Especially after the conversations we had postpartum about all the gross things he saw from my body. Side note, I also had the worst pregnancy gas that he had to live with for nine months. I haven't said anything to him because I don't know how to approach it. I don't want him to feel embarrassed or ashamed. I definitely don't want him to know I get the ick from him. Our last lack of sex has been a really sensitive spot already for us to navigate postpartum. But I'm thinking that if he didn't take care of some of these bodily needs in front of me, I would be more likely to feel turned on by him. We have always had a really open relationship when it comes to body stuff, and I haven't always loved it, but it's never bothered me this much before. How can I gently ask him to stop picking his nose or stop farting in bed, but without making him feel bad about having body needs? I also don't want him to feel like I'm micromanaging his way of being.

Help, please.

What do you think?

This is a tough one.

This is a really interesting one.

This is. I mean, okay, so to some extent here, I don't know all the science behind this, but I think, am I. Am I correct that for some amount of time postpartum there can be some, like just general hormone changes that can.

Yes.

That can cause. Yes. Like hormone changes or imbalances. I am being careful. I don't want to, like, say something offensive. Hormone changes that can throw, you know, that can. That can greatly impact the way that we feel or react to things. Now, am I also correct that those generally go away after some amount of time?

Time.

Like it's generally. It's not a permanent change, but it can be for Like, a year or two, typically. Right. So I think that this is tricky because to some degree, if you're like, look, this stuff didn't bother me back then. Right. I was more understanding about this in the past because, look, some of this is tough. Farting in bed, like, I hate to say it, but, like you, he cannot stop himself from, like, farting in his sleep in the middle of the night. Night.

Or like, some farts cannot be helpful.

Yeah.

Like, if.

If he's just lying in bed and he feels a big one coming, maybe he can get up and run to the bathroom and fart, or he can try to do it quietly. But I think, you know, farts are tricky, especially if you're mostly complaining about farts in bed, because he might be sleeping and you might be awake, and, like, it's gonna happen.

I doubt she's talking about sleep farts. I think she's talking about, like, they're laying in bed, you know, reading before they go to sleep, and he's, like, just farting.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm curious.

He's not making an effort. Just, like, he's picking his nose. He's like, yeah, it's normal for us to get boogers, but he's consciously deciding to pick his nose in front of her. I don't think this one's that hard, actually.

Okay.

I think that the way that she sent this question in is really kind, thoughtful, and generous. And I would describe it to him in exactly these words and just take out the mentions of the ick. So I would say to him, like, hey, I want to talk to you about something. And first of all, I want to say this is very difficult for me to talk about because you have been such an incredible partner to me. I cannot tell you how much it means to me that you dealt with all this gross stuff. You've been such a champ. You've helped me feel so comfortable and so normal. And so because of all of that, this makes me feel like. It makes me feel really bad to be bringing this up, because I want to be able to have the same, like, patience and acceptance of you that you showed for me. So, like, just acknowledge it. Like, I'm being. I'm. I fully know that I am being a little hypocritical here.

You can even say it feels unfair. Yeah. And that's. And I've been hesitant to bring. I've. I've been hesitant to bring this up because it feels so unfair to me.

Exactly.

And, yeah.

Own it. And then say, you. You for sure. Use the postpartum hormones and changes as an excuse. Just say, I'm finding myself being way more sensitive about things that never used to bother me before. But would you be willing to, at least for this temporary period of time until go back to normal? Would you be willing to pick your nose in private and maybe make a little bit of an effort to fart in private too? I think that's a totally valid request. And if this guy is as amazing as she made him seem, I don't think he's gonna think it's that big of a deal. Maybe he'll be a little surprised, like, oh, I didn't realize that stuff bothered you. And then you can say it never did before. And again, I feel like such a jerk because you were so, like, you wiped my freaking ass. You get a gold star for that. So I feel bad. I feel like this is unfair. And at the same time, I'm like, look, our sexual connection is so important to me. I want us to be rebuilding. Like, I know we're feeling, you know, we're working on this together. And I do think that this would make a big difference. And I'm hoping this is just temporary. It's just the postpartum hormones. I'm a little all over the place, but, like, could you do this for me? I think that would be totally fine.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Yeah. I mean, the only, like. The only thing that, like, stands out to me a little bit is, like, you're. You're saying, like, I'm having this combination of, like, Yep, I was just looking at. And rage.

Yeah.

So there might hormones. Yeah, totally, totally understand. And it's also, like, those are also some very extreme emotions to be feeling. And.

Yeah.

And those. I mean, those are generally emotions that. If you are feeling those in response to something your partner does, I mean, there are situations where those are very understandable emotions. Like, your partner is yelling at you, is, you know, harming you in some way. These are emotions that feel, you know, they feel disproportionate in response to what you are describing, and you are recognizing that. So I think there could be a benefit to maybe, you know, trying to get into some individual therapy or something to just be able to talk through those. Because I think what can be challenging is you're identifying those feelings are coming up, but you don't have an outcome outlet for them. Right. Like, you don't want to respond angry to him. You don't want to be rageful. You don't want to tell him. Oh, my God. I. I'm feeling enraged. From your heart. Right? Like, you don't want to. Like, that's not going to be helpful. And so. But you need to be able to process those emotions somewhere. Because when we. What. What often happens is we are feeling something that feels disproportionate. We're like, oh, my God, I better not feel that. Better not feel that. Push it down, Push it down. Try to avoid that or try to do something else. And so when we can't express them, like, verbally or physically, then they tend to just simmer and grow slowly and get worse and worse. So I think having somewhere where you can talk about that and, like, vent honestly, like, vent safely, let the seam off. I think that could be very helpful.

Yeah.

Because you don't ultimately. Yeah. You don't want to be feeling those things towards your husband.

Yeah.

At all. And so, yeah, I think it worth being like, hey, this is disconcerting that I'm feeling these things towards my husband. I don't want to. I don't want to redirect this internally at myself and be ashamed or think I'm a bad person. And I also don't want to be feeling these. So I want to be able to talk to somebody about it.

Yeah, I mean, I think I caught that, too. I flagged that sentence, too. The fact that it's, like, escalating into rage. But I think that that's likely just to be the postpartum hormones, and it'll probably level off in a little bit.

But it could be a. Yeah, it still could be.

You know, we're always gonna say it's. It's worth talking to somebody about it. But ultimately, at the end of the day, like, I do think that life is not fair. Relationships are not fair. And it's okay for us to sometimes be hypocritical, and it's okay for us to, like, make requests of our partner that, you know, maybe they wouldn't make of us. I mean, we talked in the last episode about how I've asked you to, like, with farting, you know, to have. Make some effort around about not farting around me. And, like, that's not something that you would ask of me. Like, I don't think it bothers you that much. So you could say, like, it's not fair that I've asked you to do that when you wouldn't ask me to do that. But it's like, that's just life. We're different people. We have different preferences and, you know, different needs and requests and all of that. So I think as long as you take ownership over it and, and of course, like, don't shame him about it, but taking ownership over it, like, hey, this is just my weird thing, but could you indulge me with this? I think that's fine.

Yeah, agreed.

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All right.

Men peeing gives me the egg. Well, have you ever considered that you might be gay?

Everything makes you gay.

Yeah. Oh, you're not into peeing. You must not be into men. I. I hope everybody listening knows that that is a joke based on everything we talked about before. But okay, I got the ick thinking about him peeing standing up. I know most guys do, but the idea of it splattering on the walls just gets me. It doesn't feel worth.

Wait, hold on. Is it splattering the walls when you pee?

No.

Have you ever peed on the wall?

I don't think so.

You're like, we have a. The bathroom that you usually pee in is pretty tight. The walls are like. It's like a little toilet closet.

Yeah. So pee on the wall. Okay, I'll be honest. Men peeing standing up without care taken. Like, I mean, it is common. If you see a bathroom that like a lot of men pee in standing up, there can often be. It can be a little Wet just in front of the toilet bowl, on the ground, on the walls are not somewhere that usually would get splashed. But because, let's be real, you're peeing into the toilet, it would be bounced. Like, you think of how a toilet bowl is curved. Like it's not going to bounce over the toilet to the walls unless you literally are just flopping your dick around and pissing. Yeah, not. Not pissing into the toilet at all. If anywhere is going to bounce more to the side and back to the front of the toilet or like, honestly back onto you.

Oh my God.

So, yeah, I mean, I think like, I mean, yeah, I. I pee standing up, but like, you kind of have to be. There's a spot to aim for. Like basically like right above the water line, like on the back of the, you know, the back part of the bowl. There's.

I didn't know there was such a technique.

There is a spot that will kind of minimize splashage. Splashage, yeah. But I do. Okay, let's continue. It doesn't feel worth talking to him about it because I know it is probably an unrealistic ask to have him pee sitting down. When it comes to a genuine ick. I just don't see it as worth bringing up the emotional energy slash equity to share a complaint could be better spent on something that affects me more. Hey, that's very big of you, I guess. But like, wait, I have an idea. I have a great idea.

Uh, oh, okay. Okay.

Well, it sounds like you actually don't really know if he's peeing sitting up st. Sitting or standing. You're just imagining. So here's what you do. Just say, hey, dude, I'm going to make a request of you because I got this thing going in my head that I just can't stop thinking about. So I would love it if I just want to. Like, I would love it if you just told me that you're gonna pee sitting down. Now what happens behind closed doors happens behind closed doors. Who knows? But like, I'd like you to just tell me that you're gonna do this and then who the cares after that? Like, it this the way this is written. This person is. Doesn't say, I've like, I hate watching him because like, that's something we hear from people. Oh, he like pees in front of me and it's so gross. I can see the pee going everywhere. That is not. Like, if that was happening, that would be the first thing this person would be writing here. It wouldn't be like the idea Of a man peeing standing up. You know, one other thing I'll tell you, I do have some male friends who 100% of the time pee sitting down. Your husband could be one of them without you even knowing it. Yeah, he probably, you know what? He probably is, actually.

Yeah, he for sure is.

He for sure is peeing sitting down.

He wrote in and told us.

Yeah, he did. He did.

Yeah, we've seen it.

Yeah. Not all men pee standing up. And that's definitely your husband. So problem solved.

Okay, this is interesting though, because you're saying, like, it doesn't seem worth bringing up, but yet you took the time and energy to write to us and ask about it. So it's like, it does seem like it's kind of bothering you a little bit. So I don't know, it might be worth re examining and asking yourself, like, okay, does this bother me or not? And again, this is similar to what we talked about in the last one. Like, yes, sometimes we have requests or preferences that feel unfair or that feel silly or feel like we wish we didn't have them, but at the end of the day, like, you have it. So could you just take ownership over it and ask, like, he doesn't have to do it. Maybe, you know, maybe he says he doesn't want to. But I don't think it's. I don't think it's an enormous ask. It's definitely an unusual.

So, you know, idea number two, Install a urinal.

No, because she's saying it doesn't like the idea of him peeing standing up.

Well, I think the idea of a urinal, like, so peeing. The reason why peeing standing up, there's splashage is because it's traveling a far, a long distance down. The whole point of a urinal is so that it is like you're peeing on a toilet where it's, you know, not going very far. You're just pissing right in.

I'm not going to install a urinal.

But yeah.

Is it like, also, is it. Are you cleaning the bathroom? Well, that, that could be a different thing. Is that you ask him, like, hey, can you be the one to clean the bathroom?

You know, I'm not convinced that this person has any proof that there is pee on the wall.

There's definitely not pee on the wall.

They didn't say that. Like, I, I don't think that this person. I think this person. It's literally all in their head. They are imagining piss all over the walls, but they don't have Any proof? Cuz they would have been like, I'm so sick of cleaning up the pee stains on walls. They're not saying that. They're not saying, my, my guy won't stop peeing in front of me. Oh, I'm spending so much time scrubbing piss off the walls or like there's yellow stains on the wall. That's not in this question at all. So I do think it is all in your head now. Yeah, that's a valid question. Are you, are you genuinely noticing P in places that P shouldn't be? Because if that's the case, you have a hygiene related question. Hey, I don't want to, I don't want to see pee on the floor. On, on the wall and the baseboards, whatever. Honestly, if it's going to be anywhere, it's the floor, maybe the baseboards. It's not going to be the wall. But you could request, hey, like the bathroom needs to be more clean for me. I don't ever want to see that. So whether you have to clean it up every time or piece sitting down, that's on you. You get to decide. Or I'd like you to clean the bathroom. But I am not convinced that's the case. I think this is like a, like a kind of paranoid fantasy.

Okay, let's move on to our last one. My husband used to comment on every price of food when we'd go out to eat. Usually negative. It gave me the ick and also didn't make me want to go out to eat with him. We discussed it and it came back to our different upbringings. Surrounded by money.

Money.

He's gotten a lot better and I've been better at accepting it for a difference. But sometimes it's still so hard and it gives me the ick. Especially when we're with other people. I think it bothered me so much and gave me the ick because it was date night, something fun for us to do together. It felt like he didn't want to be there with me.

I think that's really understandable. Like, yeah. Like if, if we were going out, if we were going out out, whether it was me taking you out or you taking me out or whatever, whoever planned it or whoever kind of made the move. If one person is complaining about it the whole time.

Yeah. It feels like what?

Like. Yeah. Like we're. Like, we don't have to be. Like we're. We're trying to do this for each other to do something nice. And this doesn't feel nice.

Yeah.

Anymore. Like I Mean, I wouldn't. I would even say that again. Like, this is not an ick one. This is like. Like a. This is kind of just like a mutual respect type of thing. Like, I get that there are money things.

That's what I like about this one is, like, this is one that I love that they had a conversation about it and they identified a root thing here.

Yeah.

That it's really about, like, their approaches to money, like, I'm. Or their, you know, history with money. So I'm. I'm guessing he probably grew up with less money than she did. And there's of kind. Kind of this scarcity mentality of like, oh, my God, this, you know, pasta costs $20 or, you know, whatever it is.

And I think this is a really common thing, like, in many families. It's like, oh, well, like, you know, my mom and my dad would always complain about this. Oh, I can't believe they're charging blah, blah, blah for whatever. So it's like. It's almost like it's just a default thing that's built into us. Like, you know, we either talk about that or we don't.

Yeah, but I love that you did talk about it and identify, you know, the root behind it and assuming that it gave you some compassion for each other and some deeper understanding of each other. Like, oh, yeah, I can totally understand why you might be saying this. You know, that it's rooted in all this history and all these beliefs that you were taught to have. So I do like that a lot. But, yeah, I totally agree. Like, if we went out on date night and you were just complaining about the price of food, I'd be like, this is not very fun. This is. Yeah. Ruining the. Ruining the vibe. Ruining the energy between the two of us.

Yeah. I mean, it would give the vibe of like, well, why are we here here? Like, why are we here? Or, like, why don't we do something else then? That is not like. Like, the point of date night is to have fun.

Yeah, Right.

Like, let's do something that isn't going to be a complaint. Because I feel like often when you. When someone is complaining about something like that, whether it's prices or whatever, picking apart the service or whatever, what the person. What the other person kind of implicitly hears is like. Like, is like, you made the wrong choice. Like, you shouldn't have suggested this restaurant, or you shouldn't get this thing, or you shouldn't. You shouldn't. Whatever. It's like judgment towards the other person, even if the other person didn't pick the restaurant. It's like, oh, we shouldn't be doing this. We shouldn't be doing this. And it's like, yo, we decided, we wanted to go on date night. We decided together to go to this restaurant. Or I decided to go to this restaurant. So live with it, buddy.

Yeah.

Where you decide to go to this.

Restaurant and doing it in front of other people is icky too. Like that just, it feels embarrassing. I'd feel really embarrassed if you were doing that in front of other people.

Yeah. So I mean, I think, I think this, the person writing in. You've really done the hard work here. At the very end you're saying, I think that the reason it really is bothering me is because it is feeling like he doesn't want to be there with me. Now what I want wonder. I'm not sure that you've shared that part of it with him. It sounds like you've talked about how like you don't like that and he's gotten a lot better at it. But it sounds like what you're saying is upon further reflection, you know, it's still coming up occasionally and I'm realizing I don't feel like he wants to be there with me. I think that that would be a really valuable thing to share with him because that's going to be really. That like is going to cut through, through all the, the money stuff. Any kind of values related things around like frugality or money or whatever. Because if you're just, if you're, if all the argument is I don't like it when you say this costs too much, then he can respond and say, oh, well, well it does cost too much. Or we are, you know, we're trying to save money. Or like this is how I was raised.

Different views.

Yeah, we have different views on money. Where I was raised to like be careful with my, you know, then it becomes a logistical argument about money. But the thing is it's not about money. It's about being on date night and feeling connected and feeling like he wants to be there with you. Yeah. So that really cuts through it. I think that that is the most important thing to share with him. Hey, when you are saying X, Y and Z, I'm not. It, it's not feeling good to me.

Yeah.

Because I hear that and I, what I'm. What I'm feeling like is you don't really want to be here with me. You'd rather be somewhere else. You'd rather not be going on a date. And then I'M feeling like, well, but we're together. Like, we want it. Like, this is how we do something nice together. Like, it's important to me that it feels like you want to be with me when we are taking time out of our day to do something, go on a date. So if, you know, it doesn't have to be. We don't have to be going to these. To a restaurant or whatever. If you. You. You know, I would love for you to do whatever you need to do to be able to take me on a date and not be complaining about things, because I want you to feel like you are really here with me.

Yeah.

I think that that would. That he would really hear that pretty well and say, hey, it's not about the. Like, I'm not. This isn't. This has nothing to do with how you were raised, your thoughts on money. It has everything to do with how valued I feel. Feel here.

Yeah.

And I think giving him that alternative, like, look, we don't have to go to restaurant, you know, whatever, Because I think that the only way that could get a little sidetracked is if he's like, oh, well. But, like, we're always going to places that are really expensive, so it's like, you got to give a. Give an alternative. But I do think that that will cut through it and it'll be like, okay, I get it. It's. It's. It's about. We are taking. You know, it's us being here for each other. Other and wanting to be with each other, and me talking about this type of stuff takes away from that.

Yeah. All right, well, we're gonna have to wrap it up here for round two. We still have more questions, man, but everybody's.

Everybody's got the answer.

This feels like too tame of a place to end, though. Like, we started with poop and butt chat. Butt crack.

Yeah. How's your butt doing? Are you. Are you poop free right now?

I am. It is not feeling damp or whatever. Weird word to use.

I mean, I sure. I sure think I am poop free. Great. Well, what do you. What do you think it would feel like? You were so shocked when I said that. I'm curious.

It feels dry.

If you had a poopy butt right now, what do you think it would feel like? Dry. Why. Why would it be dry?

Because it's, like, dried. It's. I don't know.

It was.

It was there, and. And I don't know.

You dried up poops?

Yeah. I feel like that's what happens. Not that it's.

It would dehydrate inside your butt.

It's not inside anymore. It's outside, exposed to the air. I mean, this is so gross. We have to stop. Nobody's ever gonna listen to this podcast ever again. Well, at least we loop back around to the poop. Now we can.

Yeah, that's a.

That's a sufficiently made it sufficiently gross episode.

Yeah, that's a clean ending. I really like it.

Thank you guys for sharing all of your delightful icks with us again. If you haven't listened to part one, you absolutely have to. There are just some hysterical little short vignettes about the things that give you the ick. And let us know if you want to continue talking about the icks. Come over to Vanessa and Xander on Instagram. Xander with an X.

Let us know what you think about our poop argument.

All right.

Help break our tie.

That's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.