EPISODE 219: The Truth About Female Orgasm: Your Q’s Answered!

I think I've had an orgasm, but I didn't release any fluid. Is that actually an orgasm or no? All right. I've never had a movie level orgasm. I am 33, and I've recently realized I don't think I've ever had a proper orgasm. How can I know if I actually had an orgasm? Everyone says the same thing. Like, you will know when you get to the O. Oh, I like that. You will know when you get to the O.

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podc. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are talking about one of my absolute favorite topics, the female orgasms.

Ooh.

So I want to do a little story time. This was actually the first thing that I became professionally known for. Spoiler alert. Buzzfeed called me the orgasm whisperer.

That's high praise.

Yeah. From buzzfeed. Okay, so let me tell you a little bit about my story with female orgasm, because I think it's something that surprises a lot of people. A lot of people think like, oh, you're a sex therapist. This must just have always been so easy and effortless for you.

You've had it figured out since birth.

Uh huh. Just shot right out of the womb knowing how to orgasm.

That's a weird thing to picture.

That is very weird.

Let's get that out of my mind.

Okay. So the truth is that I actually struggled with this for. For a very, very long time. So I learned how to orgasm on my own, and it was relatively straightforward, but I could not get there with a partner. And that was so confusing for me. Like, how could it be so simple on my own but so difficult to get there with a partner? And I think it even was more confusing for me than if I just couldn't orgasm at all. Like, if I couldn't orgasm at all. I don't know. In a way it would almost make more sense, but, like, being able to do it one context but not another felt very confusing.

Well, yeah, of course, because you're doing something on your own. You're like, this is great. I love this. I want to Be able to experience this with someone else. Not only do I want to, but, like, I feel like I should be able to, but I can't.

Exactly.

That's frustrating.

So I love talking about this topic because I really understand the feelings that so many women go through. Like worrying that I'm broken in some way. Something is horribly wrong with me. Feeling very alert. Like, I must be the only woman who struggles with this. Every woman is having these wild, explosive, amazing, crazy orgasms. And I am the one broken, sad little weirdo who has not been able to figure it out. I faked every single orgasm with every single partner. Until I met Xander. I actually had. Had this.

You make me sound so special in this story, and I'm really. I'm really not. It was a person before me that really. That really set me up for success.

Because I had this experience where I was hooking up with somebody that I was really into, and he made this crude, weird joke about how he was so good at making me orgasm, even though I had just faked it.

Well, you were so good at faking.

Them, and I was actually. I was very good at faking them. I put on an excellent performance. But, yeah, like, in that moment, it was like, I can't. I'm never doing this again.

I'm faking it for your performance.

Yeah. He's like. He said, I can play you like a fiddle. Which is like, to this day, it's 20 years later. To this day, it still makes me want to hurl sometimes.

It's just. It's those one liners. Someone says one line, and it sticks with you for the rest of your life. And maybe it ends up being, like, the motivation to get you from A to B.

What a weird thing to say.

I feel like so many people have that in their life, talking about, like, orchestra instruments and, you know, honestly, even if you were wildly orgasmic with him, I could imagine that that might still be a gross comment where you're like, I wish you.

I wish you had not said that.

We just did two episodes on icks. That could have been an ick.

It for sure gave me the ick for sure.

But it gave you the double ick because there was a hidden ick behind it about the faking orgasms.

So, yeah, so I really like. And going back to empathizing with the experience. I faked so many orgasms, and I also had that experience of resentment that builds over time when you're f.

Faking.

Feels like the best option. It's like, you know, I don't want my partner to feel bad. I want them to feel like there's chemistry between the two of us. I want things to be over. It feels like there are really logical reasons to do it, but it really chips away at your soul, you know, Especially when you're doing it for, like, every single time, for long periods of time. Like, I started to get so resentful and angry and frustrated of, like, why are my partners getting to have this great experience and I'm not getting to have it? So. And also, I had this whole added other layer of imposter syndrome of, like, I'm a sex therapist. I'm pursuing this field. I'm, you know, doing studies and research, and, like, I have this dirty little secret that I can't do this with a partner.

These dirty little secrets.

Yeah, I mean, it's easy to talk about now because so much time has passed, but it was really, really difficult for me. And so when I eventually became a licensed psychotherapist and opened up my pract very quickly without me intending to, like, I never set this out to be my specialty. I didn't advertise it anything like that.

Yeah, like, imagine I remember your first flyers and stuff and website. And I'm thinking you probably didn't have female orgasms listed on there.

No, not at all. But my entire practice became women who were struggling with orgasm. And by that point, like, by the time that I was a licensed therapist, you and I had been together for a while. Like, I had figured it out. I finally cracked the code. I buried the lead right there. I just finally figured it out. But, yeah, I was so excited about having figured it out. And then now my practice is filled with women who are also struggling to orgasm. And in particular, I tended to attract women who were crushing it in every other area of their life. Just felt super confident, had great relationships, great jobs. Everything looked great on paper. High achievers, but they couldn't get there. And, yeah, so I really, like, related to them of that. Like, I feel like I'm kicking ass in every other area of my life, but I just can't figure this thing out. So once I had my own experience of figuring out what I needed to do to get there with a partner, I became very determined to teach it and to make it into a system, a real process that I could teach to other people. Because when I was going through those struggles for so long and again, even being in the sex therapy field, like, researching, reading books, trying to find information, like, all I ever found for myself was, don't Think about it, Let it happen, and have a glass of wine and, like, try to relax. I did all those things, but I never had an orgasm. And it's like, how do you not think about it? Like, how do you just let it happen? Like, I don't know how to just let it happen.

Let it happen is like very spiritual. Bypass y.

Like, it's very passive.

Yeah. Do this thing that's actually not doing anything. And if it doesn't work, then all I have to do is say, oh, well, obviously you just didn't do it well. You didn't do let it happen well enough. You must be, you know, you must be anxious or you must be whatever. It's like, it's not. It's not like any other piece of advice where it's like, oh, okay, you tried this. It didn't work. All right, here's something else to try. It's like, oh, you tried this. It didn't work. Oh, you must not have tried hard enough. Oh, well, no, you must be. You just must be. Something must be wrong with you.

Yeah. So I was very determined to create actual tangible systems and processes and real tips, not just this vague generic advice. So I started testing out techniques with my clients, working with them one on one, and very quickly realized I'm onto something here. And my practice got so full, I had a waiting list. It was really hard to get in to see me. So I realized I want to be able. I've had so much success with all these women that I'm working with one on one with lots of different circumstances, scenarios. Like, I was feeling really confident in the techniques that I had created. And so I realized, like, let me turn this into a course. Like, I want to be. I want all women to be able to have access to this. And I can't see everybody one on one. But if I make it into a course, like, people can access it anywhere in the world from the comfort and privacy of their own home. So that was back in 2015. That was the birthday of finishing school. So it's actually the 10 year. I didn't even realize that until literally right this second. It's the 10 year anniversary of finishing school.

Wow.

We're going to have to share that with our team.

Wild.

I didn't realize that. Yeah, 10 years wild.

We got to publicize that a little more.

So, yeah, when the course came out, it has just been so successful. That was when buzzfeed called me the orgasm whisperer. It was like we had reporters from every major women's magazine. Like, go through the course, review it. Like thousands of women went through just absolutely, like glowing reviews, amazing experiences. So that like, really became my thing. And it wasn't until around like 2020, when you started working on content with me, that we started kind of shifting more in the direction of working with couples. And that kind of became a little bit more our specialty. But like, female orgasm has really always been like my baby, the bread and butter. Well, not, not only that, but just like the thing that I value so much that I was able to turn this experience of so much pain and frustration and suffering to not only overcome it myself, but then to be able to help other women overcome it and teach everybody, you know, whether it's you yourself or, you know, your partners, but teach people the truth about how female orgasm really works. Because even to this day, there's so much crap out there, there's so much terrible advice. Like, it's still is very difficult to wade through. So that's my story behind this topic, why I'm so passionate about it. We're gonna tell you a little bit more about finishing school at the end of this episode, but if you wanna check it out right now, you can go to vmtherapy.com orgasm we'll also put that link in the show notes. Let's just say we're doing something special about it right now.

Yeah, for our 10 year anniversary.

No, now we have to turn it into the tenure. But yeah, go to vmtherapy.com orgasm but for. We are answering your questions. So we put a question box up on Instagram. We asked you, like, tell us all of your questions. What are you struggling with? How can we help? And we're gonna go through a ton of them. This episode of the Pillow Talks podcast is brought to you by Alloy Women's Health. So I am squarely in the territory of premenopause. And I've been thinking a lot about what this experience is, is like transitioning into midlife, going through menopause. And I've been hearing a lot of crappy things. To be totally honest, I just found out that almost half of women went over three years before seeking relief from menopause or perimenopausal symptoms. And I think that's because so many of us just don't know where to go for help or resources or we've even had doctors that weren't particularly helpful. So that's why I'm really excited to tell you about Alloy. Their goal is to help you thrive during menopause. And Mid midlife, offering unlimited access to doctors and experts with safe, science backed treatments for your hormonal symptoms. So here's how it works. You sign up all of their solutions are available by prescription, so you'll need to complete a short medical questionnaire and patient verification. Then you design your treatment plan with a physician. You'll work with an expert physician to finalize a personalized treatment plan tailored to your specific needs. Everything's done from the comfort of your own home, so no waiting for an appointment or at line in line at the pharmacy and you get a three month's supply. If you need prescriptions, Alloy will ship them directly to your door with automatic refills. I cannot recommend Alloy enough join the 95% of women who tried aloe and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloy.com pillow and tell them about your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan and you'll get $20 off your first order.

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Okay. I think I've had an orgasm, but I didn't release any fluid. Is that actually an orgasm or no?

Okay. This is a question that we hear a lot this day and age. And I think what's happening is like, people are confusing squirting and orgasming.

Yeah. And also getting confused by the language that we. Where we use the word come or coming. Right. Like, I'm coming, which I think is a word I don't know that. Don't quote me on this, but I can imagine that, like, getting into etymology.

At dinner last night.

But what it means, that's really more coming from the male orgasm perspective because it's like, you know, we say, did you? Or. I don't know.

No, everybody says, did you come?

Yeah, I guess so. But we've also, you know, for ejaculate, like C U m. Yeah. And so a lot of people are like, coming C U M M I N G. Right. So the idea is like. Like, is cum coming out?

I don't like people when you say, are you coming with C U m M I n G. Oh, yeah.

I mean, it just seems kind of teenage dirty. Yeah, yeah, but I know, but I. But I. What I'm saying is that the use of that phrase, I think can trigger us to think, like, oh, well, like, yeah, a man, like, come comes out. And so, like, if, dad.

That we're talking about spelling and if.

We'Re also using that for women, then there's this. I can totally understand as a woman growing up hearing that word, you're thinking, oh, well, like, something's supposed to come out, right?

Yeah, no, we hear a lot of confusion about those three words. Squirting, coming, orgasming. Okay, so let's break it down.

Brass tacks.

So an orgasm is the experience of peak pleasure. Cumming is what a lot of people refer to. Like, just. We use it interchangeably very often, you know, also having an orgasm. But some people also think of cumming as releasing fluid, which makes it confusing.

And for a man, it's basically one for one. You release fluid and have an orgasm at the same time is technically, they.

Are two separate processes.

I know, I know.

But I'm saying can learn how to.

Separate, like, 99.9% of the time.

For 99.9% of the time, they happen, like in the same moment and then squirting is the release of fluid. So squirting for a woman is the release of fluid through our urethra. The fluid comes from these glands inside of our bodies called the Skene's glands. And there's a lot of back and forth about like, is it pee? Is it not? I don't believe that it's pee. There can be little traces of urethra urine since it's passing through the urethra. But I do believe that it is a distinct fluid that's created by the Skene's glands.

And I imagine a lot of people do claim that it's pee out there, because there's probably a lot of fake squirting going on due to. Yeah, due to people seeing it in porn and, you know, needing to squirt on demand or whatever. And then it's probably just piss. So then, of course, a lot of people go, oh, it's piss.

Okay. But the thing that we really need to understand about squirting versus orgasming is that they're two totally separate processes. So you can squirt without having an orgasm. You can orgasm without squirting. But a lot of women, especially these days, like, don't understand that. And they think, oh, if I didn't squirt, it means I didn't actually have an orgasm. That is not true. The majority of women do not squirt. We don't have a ton of research on squirting. You can imagine it's difficult to get research dollars to devote to this.

If someone wants to fund us, let's talk about it.

So we don't have a ton of research. It does seem that all women are capable of squirting, but it is like, some women just do it very easily and readily. Other women, there's really, like, a process that you have to go through to learn how to do it. But again, the bottom line is that if you didn't squirt, that does not mean you didn't have an orgasm. It's a totally separate process.

Also, am I right here in that. That I believe, from what I've heard, most women who readily squirt do not typically experience squirting and orgasm at the same time. Like, that's somewhat more rare, I think.

Yeah. And women have very different experiences about, like, around squirting, too. Like, some women say, it is pleasurable. It's fun. Like, it feels sexy. A lot of women say, I feel zero sensation. I don't like the mess that it makes. It's frustrating that it happens. So it's really Like. Like a whole spectrum.

Yeah, I'm sure it really depends on the volume that you are releasing too. Like, is it a tiny bit?

It can be a lot.

Is it a lot? It totally depends. How does your partner receive it? You know, all of that stuff.

Yeah. So with. I mean, squirting is kind of. In a lot of ways, it's become this, like, circus trick that a lot of women are feeling pressured to do. Or it's like, oh, well, my partner really wants me to. Or like, he says it's always with men. He says, like, it's not a real orgasm unless he made me squirt.

And I. Yeah, that's some bullshit.

Yeah, I get really frustrated about that. My perspective is, hey, if you want to explore your body and you're like, squirting sounds cool. I want to see if I'm capable of doing it. It feels fun and exciting to me to explore and try different things and see, you know, what comes up for me, that's great. But if you're doing it because you feel pressure from your partner, you feel pressured that that's what you're supposed to do. Like, please don't put that pressure on yourself or let your partner put that pressure on you. Like, especially knowing that it might not even be a pleasurable experience for you. Like, what's the point of driving yourself nuts trying to do it? The other nuance to this is, especially in the last year or two, I've also been hearing from women talking about how they feel like they're not wet enough when they orgasm. So it's not even that they're not like, physically squirting fluid out, but it's like, I don't have a lot of cum coming out of me when I have an orgasm. And that's another thing that's like, it's as. That's separate. Like, the amount of natural lubrication that your body releases is not related to orgasm. So you can actually feel like you're pretty dry and still have an orgasm, and you can be very wet and not having an orgasm. So really, our body lubrication, it's affected by a lot of different things, like how hydrated we are, our diet, overall wellness stuff. And a lot of us just plain random too. Just like, we. We have full understanding that men and penis owners can get boners in times when they're not turned on or wanting to have sex. Like, same thing happens with us. Like, we can get wet in times that we're not particularly turned on, and we can be dry in times that we are turned on. So if you're. Yeah. If you're like, wow, I. I thought I had an orgasm, but I'm, like, really dry. The level of wetness has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes there's maybe a bit more lubrication as you're getting closer. But then also it's like, yeah, maybe if you've been going for a while, like, your body's running out of natural lubrication. So, yeah, like, I can totally see it going both ways. I mean, the same is true for men, too. Like, you can have wildly different amounts of ejaculate, like, based on how long you've been having sex, for how frequent, you know, how. How long ago it was that you last ejaculated. But it also, like, doesn't always. It's not always like that. You might have had sex, like, three days in a row. And on day three, you, like, have a lot and can't really explain why. So. Yeah, sex is a mystery in many ways still.

Okay, let's move on to our next question. Why don't you read all of our questions?

Yeah. All right. How long is an orgasm supposed to last? Or normally last? The reason I ask is I'm not sure if I've ever had an orgasm and even feels embarrassing to type this when I'm on top cowgirl. It will feel really good and, like, intensifying, and then it feels even better for a second. Is that the orgasm? I always thought the duration was longer, so that's why I'm not sure if I've actually had one or just come close or what. Help.

Actually, let me have you read the next one too, because there's some similarities in these.

Aria. How can I know if I actually had an orgasm? Everyone says the same thing. Like, you will know when you get to the O. Oh, I like that you will know when you get to the oh. But how do I actually know I had one? If I have this doubt, does that mean that I haven't achieved it yet? Or maybe I'm just waiting for something very obvious, like the male version of orgasm, and I didn't understand that I actually did have a. No, when I think I've had one, the orgasm sensations are similar to skin heating up, something growing, and then a feeling of pleasure that maybe could be better. It's amazing, but I have the feeling fear that this is not an orgasm.

Actually, you know what the third question is also? There's some similarity too. Let's just keep reading them, and then I'll go back and do a big mondo answer.

Okay, well, this is good. These are. These are just like the types of questions that so many people have. All right. I've never had a movie level orgasm. I am 33 and I've recently realized I don't think I've ever had a proper orgasm from either clitoral or penetrative stimulation. I'm talking toe curling, seeing spot, Jesus floating to heaven, full body release like in the movies. I don't know. I've never seen Jesus in the movies portrayed with orgasm. Honestly. Sorry, that's just an aside. I have what I now call mini orgasms, which include the warmth, tingles, light convulsion, muscle constriction, but no full body release. And I have to work really hard to even get those. It feels akin to climbing a really steep mountain then giving up when you're 10ft from the top. I want the big release and to get to the peak, but always end up feeling like there was more I couldn't get to. I recognize that every body is different and that there are many possible reasons for a woman to struggle with orgasm. But should I take the pressure off myself and just be happy with what I can achieve with these minis? I desperately want more, but maybe the more is something made up that isn't achievable.

Okay, so I realized I kind of wanted to do all three of these together because they're different topics that they're each asking about. But it's this central thread running through all of them of like, how do I know if this actually is one?

How do you know when you had an O?

When you've had an O? When you get to the O? So if you're a woman who's not sure if she's ever had an O, here's the most important thing I want you to know. There are two stages to learning how to get there. This is what I realized in creating my methodology around this. The first stage is learning how to have them. The second stage is learning how to make them pleasurable. So many women have this expectation that once you're having them, they should just be explosive and wild and just insanely pleasurable. But that is just not the case. You have to learn how to have them first. And then there's a different technique for learning how to make them more pleasurable.

Also, this is kind of like surfing. The first time you go, it's the first. First wave you catch, you're not gonna be like shredding down the line doing big old turns and throwing spray. You're just throwing spray. That's kind of sexual. Nope, you're going straight. You're on a tiny little wave. You're barely gonna stand up and be able to balance. Yeah. But you'll get there if you keep practicing.

So the advice that you hear all the time, like, oh, you'll know if you've had one is complete bullshit. When you are first learning, they are gonna feel like these teeny tiny little blips. Sometimes I compare it to a sneeze. It's like you get, you know, when you have a good sneeze, there's a little sense of relief afterwards. But it's not like a, you know, nobody says sneezing is orgasmic. It's not pleasurable. It's just like, ah, okay, I had that release. Right. So in finishing school, I actually warn women about this. I say, you know, it's this two stage process. We're gonna do stage one first and I'm gonna tell you ahead of time, like, you are going to feel disappointed. You're probably gonna think to yourself, like, oh my God, I signed up for this course, I spent all this time, I paid this money and like, that's it. That's this thing that I've been working towards. That's this thing that I've been, been feeling so broken about and like, you know, trying so hard to achieve.

This sucks.

And like, and I'm like, and just trust me, like, there's a stage two. We're gonna get to the stage two. But like, even with that warning ahead of time, we still get so many women reaching out, who go through finishing school who are like, they're not very good. I can't believe, like, this sucks. So you really just have to be patient with it. And again, just recognizing this two stage process is, is so important. So it's not gonna feel like, oh my God, I know 100%, without a doubt, that was it. It was this mind blowing, incredible experience. It's just gonna feel a little bit like a blip. So that's the thread running through all of them. Let's go back and answer the individual pieces of this. Okay, so the first person wanted to know, how long do they last? And she said it's feeling better for like a second. I suspect that you are having an orgasm. I think it's just, it's the small little blips that I've been talking about. It's not the like full experience of it yet, but orgasms on average last 2 to 20 seconds. Female orgasms actually last longer on average than male orgasm does.

Jealous?

Yep. But yeah, they can be anywhere within that range. And that's a pretty big range. I mean, if you really like 20 seconds of just full on bliss, it's pretty good. But yeah, even if it only feels like two seconds, that for sure can be an orgasm. Okay, the second woman, I also think that she's having orgasms too. Cause she said the sensations are similar to like skin heating up, something growing, and then this feeling of pleasure that maybe could be better. Yes. So like again, I think she's in stage one where she's having them. But now we've got to learn how to like harness it and really like ride out that experience a bit more. And oftentimes what I find is just knowing, like just mentally telling yourself, oh, I'm having an orgasm. If you just put yourself in that mental state, it really frees you up to feel more of the pleasure around it. So many of us get so in our heads, like, what's that? I don't know, am I having them? I don't know what's going on. Like, we get so in our heads that we're so distracted by it that it's not allowing ourselves to like have the full pleasure experience. So sometimes just. Just saying to yourself, like, I'm orgasmic, I'm already orgasmic, I'm having orgasms. Just saying that to yourself can actually make a really big difference.

Yeah. Or in that moment, ooh, I'm starting to have an orgasm. Let's let this ride something like that. Because I think the other thing I want to. I'm curious what you think about this. This is my observation of what my orgasms are like versus what I imagine your orgasms must be like based on the way I observe you having them. Obviously I can't be in your body to know what it's like, but I.

Mean, you are in my body.

I can't be in your head. I can't be in your head. Wow. Okay. So for me, for me. And I think that I'm curious if other men agree or disagree. I think probably most men, the orgasmic experience, if you were to graph it, like you have like time and like pleasure, that it would be like this very immediate, quick, immediate spike to like the highest pleasure and then a sort of like plateau, like, then a sort of like declining but extending over time type of thing. So it's like going down but still is pleasurable for, you know, I don't know, maybe like 10 up to 10 seconds or something like that. But it's like you have that. The, the very first part of the orgasm is like, like, boom. That's the peak. And then it kind of diminishes slowly over that. My observation of what it's like for you is what. And what I've really had to learn because as a guy I'm thinking, oh, I'm looking for that very peak. Like, I can't even like control, like the noise that I'm making or whatever. For you, I've noticed that that actually comes more in the middle of the experience. Like you will start and you will maybe be like, like halfway up the pleasure scale and you'll. That will kind of go for a little while and then there will be kind of a peak and then a slow drop off. I'm curious if that's, that's kind of the way I observe it for you because you'll. You'll report to back to me later that like, your orgasm started a lot earlier than I think that it did based on. Because I will, you know, I'm kind of cued by like, oh, when does she, like, really start moaning? Or something like that. And you'll be like, oh, no, I actually started way before that.

Yeah, they definitely can. Like, there's kind of this experience of tipping over the edge of it happening. And sometimes it can, like, the pleasure can increase from there, but for me, typically it's like it's going over the edge and then I'm experiencing little ebbs and flows. So it's actually very similar for me. And that's just my personal experience. Orgasms can feel very different for all sorts of different people. But like, in this third question, she's talking about like a lot of mini orgasms. That's. Sometimes I wonder if that's the experience similar to what I'm having where it's like, there's a lot of other little peak. It's not just one peak and then you're done. It's like, peak, peak, peak, peak, peak.

Yeah, because I imagine that this whole concept of like, oh, when you've had an orgasm, you'll know, is almost a much more male centric way of looking at it. Because I think for most men it's like, yeah, you will know. It's the level of pleasure jumps up so dramatically very quickly. It's not like this slow. It's like, I know the moment, but there's also all these physical signs of like, oh, like, I am starting to ejaculate. There's no stopping this process anymore.

So now I know when I've had an orgasm, like it's undeniable. Like, that was an orgasm 1000%. But when I was in that phase of like, you know, first I just needed to learn how to have them. There were times where I was like, what was. I think that was, I'm not sure. But now it's definitely. I know, but again, it's just the importance of recognizing that two stage process. You also brought up something that I'm looking over our questions, like, I don't think anybody asked us about that this time. Which is unusual. Cause we always get asked about this.

What is it?

The plateau.

Oh yeah. Cause I was wondering that myself. Some of these, I was like, maybe is it that this person is sort of getting to the plateau phase and they're like, oh, this is starting to feel good, but then it's like it's not going anywhere.

So most women who struggle with orgasm will describe feeling like their pleasure gets to this plateau point where they can't get any further, where it's like, it's.

Good, but it's not like incredible.

It's good, but it's not great. And it feels like your pleasure kind of flatlines, like it's a plateau.

Yeah, you're starting to go up and you're like, oh, this is getting better, this is getting better, this is getting better. And you're like, this is okay and I'm here and I'm not moving.

That stage is really important to recognize because most of us think of pleasure as this like kind of what you were describing it as for men as like, you know, it starts off not much and then, whoa, we're having an orgasm where it's this like straight path to it.

Yeah. I mean, most men will report, like, if you do the same kind of like stroke over and over, like, you know, same speed or whatever, like you will probably. It'll kind of be fairly linear. Like things will get better and better and better and better. Like, like the reason why, you know, men can often come too fast is like, because they're not allowing themselves to slow down or give a, give a pause or whatever. And so yeah, I think most men think, oh yeah, well, it just gets better and better and better. And then you hit this point and it just shoots up and then you're done.

Yeah. So that's not what the experience is like for women. It is very common to reach this plateau phase. And I like to describe it as your body preparing for orgasm and what's important to remember about the plateau phase is it's still a high level of pleasure, but it's just that it's not increasing.

I can see you get anxious because you're like, wait, what's happening?

What's happening?

Nothing's happening.

Yeah, and I think especially. Especially when you're, you know, dealing with all the other emotional and mental challenges of orgasmic difficulties. Like, it's just so easy to think of. Like, I'm stuck and I can't get any further, and I'm, like, so frustrated about this. But, yeah, that plateau is very normal. And it's still. It's a high level of pleasure. It's not like you're down at a one on a one to ten scale. Like, oh, I'm just plateauing down here. It's like, you should be around. It could be, like, it could be a six, it could be a seven, it could be a five, but it's still, you know, it's a decent amount of pleasure that you're feeling. So your body needs a little bit of time to prepare and get ready for orgasm before you. It goes up a bit more, like, up into that peak.

But very often with practice, the amount of time spent at the plateau phase can start to decrease.

Yes, there are a bunch of tricks that we teach in finishing school about how to get over that plateau phase faster. But it's also about just learning that it's a normal part of the process and learning to try to enjoy it, too. Because, again, you're feeling pleasure there. It's not like. It's just, where's my freaking orgasm? I'm like, you know, looking at the clock, waiting for it to happen.

But yes, ironically, that line of thinking that I think a lot of women accidentally or inadvertently end up taking of. God, it stopped. Oh, no. What's wrong? Oh, God. Like, is. Is he gonna come before I'm able to get out of here? Blah, blah, blah. That's kind of the equivalent of like. Of like. And we, you know, we tell men, like, generally don't do. This is like the thinking about baseball or thinking about, you know, grandparents or, you know, whatever it is to, like, try to get you to stop. It's like you're disconnecting with your own experience. And that's what you're inadvertently doing when you are like, oh, my God, why isn't this happening? You're taking yourself out of the already pleasurable experience that you're having and getting into, you know, anxiety or shame or whatever these feelings are, which are going to lower that experience.

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All right, well, let's move on. Will my orgasm be stronger if my bladder is full?

This is another question that we've been hearing a lot more in recent years. So the short answer is maybe there. Again, this is another thing where we don't have a ton of research on, but anecdotally I have heard from a lot of women, and I've experienced this myself too, that when you have a full bladder, the intensity can be heightened. It's not a guarantee, and it's not something where I would advise somebody to drink a ton of water and like, try, you know, try to make this happen.

Because it might not be pleasant. Yeah, like the feeling of having a full bladder is not pleasant.

Okay, so there are a couple of different reasons why this can happen. So the first is that when your bladder is full, it is bigger and your bladder's in the same general area. It's in your pelvic area. And so when it's bigger, it can Be putting a little bit more pressure on your internal structures, such as legs.

Of the clitoris, I'm guessing.

Exactly. That is something. Another piece of information that most people don't know, that the clitoris is so much more than just the little nub of skin that is visible to the human eye. It also extends up into the body. It splits off into a wishbone shape. It actually looks. I don't have my golden clitoris. How could we grab it? So, yes, it looks exactly like a wishbone. It's got these two legs that come out. So. So the increased, like, pressure in your pelvic region can put a little bit of pressure on, you know, your. On the walls of your vagina on the clitoris to make it feel a little bit better.

And I would imagine because the, you know, the, the shape, you know, the exact size and positioning of the internal part of your clitoris is going to be different body to body. That might also explain why some, for some people, they're like, yeah, it definitely helps because for them, them the way their bladder expands, it probably is like kind of bumping into that. And for other people, it's maybe not. This is similar to how some people will report that, that vaginal penetration can be super pleasurable and cause orgasm because it is bumping into the internal structure of the clitoris. And some bodies are not configured in that way where there's a little more space between the vaginal wall and the internal part of the clitoris. So for the same reason as that this could happen with the bladder.

And it can also create a little bit of tension, like when you're holding it, when you have to go, but you're, like, holding it, you're creating a little bit of tension inside of your pelvic region. And so for a lot of women, having a bit of tension in our bodies helps us reach orgasm. So we also, of course, anytime I won't talk about the pelvic floor area, always want to refer people to pelvic floor physical therapy. If you're having any sort of issues, sometimes tension can be a bad thing. But just, just that little bit of it with the bladder can sometimes help an orgasm feel a little bit stronger. Now, the caveats here are if your bladder's too full, then you're gonna be distracted by it. You might also be worried that, you know, oh, my God, if I pee in the middle of sex or like, I'm not gonna be able to make it until the end of sex. So again, that's why I don't.

Yeah, you're toeing a fine line.

Yeah. I don't necessarily recommend that you try to get your bladder full beforehand, but if you happen to be having sex with your bladder is, you know, on the fuller end, it might be a more enjoyable experience.

Yeah. Unfortunately, our bladders are not like the gas tank of a car where there's literally a gauge where you can be like, okay, yeah, if you can get to 3/4 full, you're going to have a better orgasm. And you're like, okay, cool, I'm just going to drink enough water till I get to the three quarters. Like, we don't have that type of gauge for our own bladder, so there's no way to know. I can tell you. For me, having a full bladder, it doesn't give me better orgasms. It definitely gives me faster orgasms because there's, I don't know, there's too much, too much pressure. Too much pressure. And it's like, not really that enjoyable for me because I'm like, yeah, this is just like a one way ticket on the express train.

Yeah.

All right, let's talk about leg positions. I would love info about women being able to orgasm or not in relation to leg positioning, straight or bent legs, legs closer together or spread apart. It has to be a pretty specific way for me. And I've known women where it has to be the total opposite leg position. Curious about the connections. Thanks.

So this is actually very similar to what we were just talking about with the tension. Tension can be a part of orgasming. Like a lot of us need to create muscle tension in our bodies to be able to propel ourselves over the edge into orgasm. Especially when you're first learning how to have them. I teach creating tension for people first learning how to have them. And then once you've gotten into that stage two where you're mastering it a bit more, then it's actually more about like letting go of the tension. You can have a totally different kind of orgasm.

Right. Release the pressure.

So this is super common to have like a specific position that you need to put your legs in. And again, it's all about creating that tension. The tension is what's helping you like get over the edge, into orgasm. And a really important thing to know about orgasm is that if you are orgasming in the same way every time on your own, you're essentially creating little neural pathways in your brain that are making the connection of, oh, in order to get to the oh, I need to do this thing. So this can be true of a certain technique that you use a position, you hold your body in a fantasy, you always fall back on porn, that you always watch a toy that you always use neurons that fire together, wire together. So you're kind of training your brain to need this certain kind of stimulation in order to reach orgasm. Now, that being said, don't freak out because this is something that you can undo. It is something that we also teach in finishing school.

And you already have the advantage of, you know how to, you know, that you know how to orgasm. You know all the signs of what it feels like. It's just training yourself to do it in different ways.

Yeah. So I can't get into that full thing because it is a bit of a process, but it absolutely is possible to do if you want to.

Yeah. And I think, like, I think with this one too, I, I would imagine that, you know, with stuff like leg positioning or whatever, this, this gets me thinking about, like, grinding, because we don't, we actually don't have a question about that. But this is another really common question that women will have is like, you know, a lot of people learn how to orgasm basically, like grinding on a pillow or a toy or something. And that's like a very kind of tension filled position. Like, you know, your knees are bent, you can have a lot of tension in your legs and your pelvic area. And, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, end up discovering this almost like, as kids, like, accidentally. Like you accidentally discover that doing something like grinding on a pillow is actually really pleasurable. And like, you know, many people have the experience of having their first orgasms at a pretty young age almost accidentally. And then, you know, realizing, oh, like, this is this thing that I can do. And so you learn from a very young age, like, oh, well, this is how I orgasm. And so, like, of course you got into adulthood and you're like, okay, well, this is, this is what I do. And you're really kind of set in, like, this is the only way I know how to do it. All right, our last question. How do I know I'm having a vaginal orgasm from penetration? Does it feel the same as clitoral? I maybe don't know how to recognize even if I have a vaginal orgasm. For reference, I got married and started having sex two months ago. So I have very limited knowledge on this. How can I know slash, distinguish, and how can I have vaginal orgasm?

Okay, so glad someone asked this, because this is another one of the most important, crucial things to know about orgasm when it comes to female Orgasm. It is all about the clitoris. The clitoris is the most important part of our body. It is the only part of the human body, male or female, that exists solely for the purpose of pleasure. The penis has reproductive uses, but the clitoris is just lust for pleasure.

I think you meant to say the most important part of your body for pleasure.

What did I say?

You said it's the most important part of the body.

Oh, well, you know, arguments could be made.

I don't know. I. You know, I don't know. I. Can someone be like, well, I think your heart's pretty important, or your lungs are your brain.

Well, you upset Maggie with that.

That's like the female version of that weird voice. That's. That's the female version of thinking with your dick.

Okay, so the other thing about the clitoris is that it is the biological equivalent of the penis. So when we are all little fetuses in utero, if I can be a little science geek for a second, we all start off as agender. And it's not until, like, eight to 11 weeks where we start to develop our genitals.

Which is why you can't discover from the doctor what sex the baby is until that time.

So the comparison that I always make is it's like a ball of clay. So I could take a ball of clay and I could shape it into a mug or I could shape it into a plate. So it's a different structure that I'm making, but it's still the same ball.

Of clay came from the same place.

Yeah, that's the penis and the clitoris. The same ball of clay just get made into different structures. So the clitoris has 10,000 nerve endings. The penis has 2 to 3,000 nerve endings. So we have way more sensation that we're capable of feeling. But the problem is that in the media, in these articles, on TV and in the movies, all you ever hear about is vaginal orgasms. We are taught to believe that we should have orgasms from penetration alone, from intercourse. It's like, that's how we always see it happening. When we see sex scenes like they're having intercourse, she starts having this wild and explosive orgasm.

That's the tool the guy has to fuck you if.

Yeah, so. And it really comes from this belief that that's what works for a man, so that should be what works for a woman. But this is complete and utter bullshit. When you're having intercourse, you're getting stimulation in your vagina, which has very few nerve endings. Like, I'm every Couple years, I go looking for a proper scientific tally. But there are very few nerve endings in the vagina. Like, think about childhood birth. Do you want to have, like, exquisite sensitivity in the place where you are birthing a child? Like, that wouldn't be very smart.

Wouldn't make a lot of sense.

So when you're having intercourse, you're getting stimulation of your part, a part of your body that just is not hardwired to feel very much sensation. And this is something that I felt for myself for so long. Like, I was like, you know, sure, intercourse feels nice. It feels connecting and intimate with my partner, but, like, I'm not feeling anywhere near the level of sensation that I need to reach orgasm. So the comparison that I always make is, from a nerve ending standpoint, intercourse for a woman is like playing with a man's balls. It might be fun, it might feel pleasurable, but it's certainly not anywhere near the level of stimulation needed to reach orgasm.

However, if you do want a guy to have an orgasm from stimulating his balls, if you add a little stimulation to the penis at the same time, you can give them a ball orgasm.

So it gets me really fired up when I hear women talking about vaginal orgasm, Especially in a context like this where it's like, you know, she's brand new to having sex. She is feeling like something's wrong with her. She doesn't know what's going on. Like, it gets me really fired up that we're taught to believe that we should be having orgasms in this way that our body is just not set up to feel pleasure from. And we're being made to feel bad and guilty about getting stimulation of the part of our body that exists, exists only for the purpose of pleasure, that has way more nerve endings than the penis does. Like, that's such complete and utter bullshit. And we don't do this to men. Like, you're not seeing Maxim magazine with, like, how to have your ball orgasms. Right. Like, we respect. Yeah, if I want to make him orgasm, I'm touching that penis. I'm putting my mouth on it. I'm putting it in my body. Like, we know that it's all about the penis. Penis. Why don't we do this for women? Why don't we give the clitoris the same respect that we give the penis?

Yeah. Now, the reality is, as we were talking about the structure, the internal structure of the clitoris, that is going to be slightly different in everybody's body. So there is a smaller percentage of women whose internal clitoral structure is aligned in such a way where there can be some indirect stimulation of it from inside the vagina. And so there is a. A percentage. A smaller percentage of women.

15.

Yeah. Who can orgasm, you know, fairly easily, like, without any additional stimulation to their clitoris from intercourse. And unfortunately, that tends to be a very loud minority of women who say, oh, yeah, I have them all the time. And so should you not realizing that they are very lucky that they are. Their bodies are configured, and that way not everybody else is able to. To. Plus, then you also have the, you know, we can't calculate the percentage. But then you also have all the people who are unfortunately faking orgasm because they, you know, feel like they. They have to, you know. No, there's no. Shame on. I. We totally understand. Vanessa's been there. I totally understand the reasons why people are doing that. And so then you have people who are faking also who are probably saying, oh, yeah, no, I'm having tons of orgasms. Yeah, I definitely just, you know, penetration. That's doing it for me. Right, right. So we have kind of like a loud minority of people who are able to do it because of the way their bodies are configured. And we have people that are not actually having orgasms, but are saying that they're having orgasms. So it can be very easy to feel like everyone's telling me that I should be able to do this.

And to be totally clear, like, if you do have vaginal orgasms, that's great. Like, we're not saying there's anything wrong with that. We're not trying to discredit people's experiences. Like, sometimes I hear from women who are like, like, well, but it feels like it's not being fair to me. But no, however, your body experiences pleasure is amazing and good.

Go all in on that. Do what brings you pleasure.

But I just want women to have the truth, to have the facts that really orgasm comes down to the clitoris. I mean, you could say still that even women who are having orgasms from penetration, it's still the clitoris. It's not the vagina that's having the orgasm. So I want women to understand, understand that. And especially if you're at the beginning of your orgasm journey, do not be going for a vaginal orgasm. Like, expect that your need to give love and attention and care to your clitoris. Respect the clitoris above all else. Okay? So to be clear, you can have an orgasm during penetration. And again, this is something that we teach in finishing school. Like, how to make intercourse more pleasurable more enjoyable, more orgasmic. But the reality is that the clitoris always has to be involved. Okay, so let's wrap it up there. That is the end of our questions. But just wanted to tell you a little bit more about finishing school because we are doing something really special with it right now for a 10 year anniversary. Yeah. We just decided.

Yeah.

So like I was mentioning before, this is the course that I created because I really wanted women to have a clear, explicit, step by step path to orgasm. There is no bullshitty, generic advice in this course. You are not gonna be told to just relax or don't think about it or have a glass of wine.

Just try harder or just try, don't try so hard.

Don't try so hard. No. This really walks you through exactly what to do and when to do it and how to do it and what.

To do if that doesn't work.

Yeah. And it addresses the different types of orgasmic challenges that might be coming up. For some women, it's a purely technical challenge. You don't know how to give your body the exact kind of stimulation it needs. For some women, it's a mental or emotional challenge. There are like blockages that are coming up. There's, you know, beliefs about sex that are getting in your way, things that you have to clear out. And for some women, it's a relational challenge where you're not letting your body get the kind of stimulation you need with your partner or you're not communicating with your partner what you need. I was definitely in that group for a very, very long time.

Maybe there's some expectations from your partner that are unreasonable and you're in your head about that.

So we really walk you through exactly what to do, exactly how to understand what your challenges are. It's so practical. It's so step by step, thousands of women have gone through it. And again, you can check that out@vmtherapy.com orgasm and I highly, highly recommend that you go check out that link because we are doing some really special stuff for a very brief window of time. Some absolutely bananas bonuses that you get that are like worth more than the course itself.

Yeah. Including ways to get your questions answered by Vanessa and me. If you want me to answer your questions. And also a groundbreaking way to get 24. 7 Support in your orgasm journey.

Yeah. We have not done a special focus on finishing school like this in over a year, maybe two years. It's been a while, so. And I don't know when we're gonna do it the next time. So this is your chance to jump in and get some absolutely incredible bonuses. So seriously, just go take a peek at the page. Just take a look at everything that is included because it's really bananas. So that's vmtherapy.com orgasm. And we will also put that link in the show notes for you. All right, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.