Episode 41: The Ask Us Anything Episode: All Your Burning Questions, Answered!

Nobody wants to hear from somebody who's like, yep, another perfect night of smoking hot sex. It's like, yeah. You feel more connected to us when we show you our humanity. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. All right, it is time to ask us anything.

Anything.

I'm thinking of some. You hate my air horn?

No, I love it.

I really have to work on it.

It's kind of like a love cringe face situation.

I really need to work on it. I was trying to think of, like a game show. Isn't there some sort of game show where it's like time to da da da da name that tune wheel? I don't know.

Probably every game show ever.

Well, today it's our game show. We decided to do something different for this week's podcast episode. A coup of weeks ago, we released our child free episode, the Truth about why we are child Free. If you have not listened to that episode, pause this one and go listen to that one.

Because, yeah, don't even listen to this episode. Screw it.

What a terror. Such a terrible. I was about to be like, it's way better. We haven't even recorded this.

Wow.

It was a really good episode. That's what I was trying to say.

It was. It was a really good episode. We got. Not only did we get a lot of great feedback, it very quickly, probably on day one, became our most listened to podcast episode.

By a lot.

Yeah, by a lot. Like, majorly by a country mile.

Oh, okay. In that episode, we got really personal, the most vulnerable we've ever gotten in a podcast episode. And we really shared our story of what we thought about kids, how we had these conversations early in our relationship, what we ended up deciding later in our relationship.

Some tears were.

Some tears were shed. And we just got so many wonderful messages from you, our beloved community of people saying they just really appreciated getting to know us better and hearing our story. And so we thought, you know what, let's do a more personal episode. Let's kind of get into it with a little ask us anything. So if you don't follow us on Instagram every Sunday, we do. Ask us anything, and we do a combination of, like, ask us whatever you want. It can be questions about us, it can be questions about you, like, wanting advice. It's always, you know, one of our favorite days of the week always ends up being a lot of fun. And we thought, you know what? Let's turn it into a podcast episode.

Yeah. Because the reality is, when we're doing Instagram stories, there's only so much you can say. I mean, I guess you could do, like, 16 slides on some random thing, but, like, on, you know, Instagram kind of lends itself to more short and snappy little bites of what's going on in your life. And on the podcast, we can actually talk about something and, you know.

Exactly.

More. It's like, you know, I feel like Instagram is like, you can talk in complete sentences, and on the podcast, we can talk. Talk in complete paragraphs.

Exactly. That's a nice way of saying it. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we get these really big questions, and we're, like, trying to figure out how to answer this in one slide. On Instagram, I'm, like, cramming all the text, and it's very small. So we thought, let's let her rip today.

Yeah, let her rip.

More will actually go into the questions. So these are all questions that were taken from Instagram. We put up a question box asking you guys what you wanted to know about us, and we actually decided to do. Do something different as well at the last minute. At the last minute, we were, like, looking through the questions, and I was adding some other ones that we had gotten, and I thought, you know what? I'm going to order the questions, and I'm gonna surprise Xander. So he doesn't know all of the questions that I'm gonna ask today, and he doesn't know the order of them. We're just gonna catch him on the fly a little bit.

Great. I love how every week in the podcast, you try to catch me off guard with the emojis. And now it's the question.

Yeah, great. It's just one big how will Xander do? Yeah. All right, well, speaking of emojis.

Yeah, speaking of emojis, it's time for the review of the week. Best sex I've ever had. Wow. Listening to our podcast is the best sex you've ever had. I've been listening for about two months now and has opened so many new and amazing doors for mine, my partner's sex life. We've always Been curious about butt stuff, but we were scared to try it. We had so many questions, but no one to ask. This podcast tackled the truths, myths, gave step by step instructions and talked about things nobody else else does. Surrounding butt stuff. It gave me so much confidence and has led to the best sex I have ever had.

Wow.

Wow. No emojis, but amazing feedback. Yeah, we love to hear that. You could also go listen to the butt stuff episode. Another one of our very early popular. A very early popular episode.

I get nervous with the personal episodes because I have a hang up where I think that nobody really cares and I'm like, nobody's gonna wanna listen to this. They don't wanna hear our story. This is boring. I gotta get over it.

Yeah, it's a limiting belief you do, lady.

Just don't listen to this episode. Don't listen to it. We haven't even recorded it yet. But I'm already telling you not to listen.

Don't listen to Vanessa. Listen to me. Listen to this episode. It's gonna be good.

But speaking of reviews, we just wanna thank you so much for writing reviews. I know it might not seem like a big deal, but seriously, we have learned as we've launched this podcast and that reviews are the best way for a podcast to grow. We cannot grow without you guys leaving reviews, sharing the episodes, leaving ratings of it. So we just appreciate it so much. We do a little giveaway every week where we ask you to write your review in Apple podcasts. Now you can actually leave ratings in Spotify too.

So do that as well. Yes, because that's awesome.

But how it works with the review of the week is leaving a written review in Apple podcasts. We pick a review of the week every week. We read it in the podcast. And if you are picked, you can come over to Instagram anessamarintherapy and tell us what's going on with your life. We will give you a mini coaching session so you can ask a question. We will send you back a personalized response. And it's just our little way of saying thank you for taking the time, helping us grow. And we appreciate it.

Thank you. All right, so I have put away my podcast notes on the screen. Just looking at our recording software now. Let her rip, babe.

I'm kind of looking at these two and I'm like, some of these questions are ones that I have to answer. So I guess I'm going to ask and answer myself sometimes.

Yeah.

But let's get into the first question. How did you guys meet?

Well, I was 22, Vanessa was 23. I was fresh out of college. I moved up to San Francisco with a couple of my friends right after college. And we rented a real piece of shit four bedroom house or flat. Not a house. It was like an apartment floor. It was a floor of, like, a three story, like, old Victorian house in San Francisco, the big yellow house. And we were having a Christmas party. So, like, I had basically been out of college, graduated in May, I think, and this was now December. Christmas party at my house. I was deejaying. One of my friends came over, and he was dating a girl who was friends with Vanessa. And so Vanessa had come with his girlfriend. My friend Darius was like, hey, you see that? See that girl Vanessa with Juliet? Like, she thinks you're cute. And I was like, oh, yeah, she's pretty cute, too.

Meanwhile, yes, I had been dragged to this party. I did not want to go out. I was actually, like, on my way home, and Juliet was like, no, please come with me. Like, Darius is there. They were just starting the date. She wanted a little wing woman. So I finally agreed. At the same time she was telling me, hey, do you see that guy over there? He thinks you're really cute.

She's just trying to find excuses for you to stay longer, I'm sure.

Well, we found out much later that neither one of us had said anything. Like, I had not said that Xander was cute. Xander had not said that I was cute.

Well, I mean, I did. Once he said something to me, I was like, yeah, she's pretty cute. I'll talk to her.

Our two friends had not coordinated with each other, which is pretty wild. Like, independently, they had each decided to try to set us up somehow. So that's really wild. But, yeah, I went snuck behind the DJ booth. I knew the song Xander was playing, started flirting with him, and it was game on.

Led to the longest, hottest makeout session of our life. Hope to never repeat that again.

All right, so the next question is for me, I was shocked to hear you say that Xander has never seen you pee. So this was actually from the child free episode. I very casually, like, offhandedly mentioned, Xander's never seen me pee. It was like one tiny little moment in a very emotional podcast episode. But so many people clung to that, and they're like, what on earth? Xander has never seen up? How is that possible?

Well, it's actually not possible because actually, I have come very close to seeing up. I think the closest I came was very, very, very early in our relationship at the hospital.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, Vanessa got a really bad UTI and ended up in the hospital. It was probably. We'd been dating maybe, like three months or something.

Yeah. Call my parents.

Yeah, Like, I had to. I had to call Vanessa's parents and explain. And she's in the hospital with a uti, presumably because I'm having sex with her. And, yeah, it was bad. Vanessa had, like a hundred, 405 degree.

It was a really fever.

Like, she had to get transfer from urgent care to the emergency room, and they were iving her with fluids. And so pretty soon she needed to use the bathroom a lot. She could barely walk. And I was like, I'm coming in the bathroom with you. This is so dangerous. No, you can't come in the bathroom with me.

Okay. That's a very extreme story to start this off with. But the truth about this is it's really not that extreme. Like, I don't feel that strongly. It's not a shame thing. Like, oh, my God, he could never see that happen. I don't really care about it, but it just. For me, like, bathroom time is my private time. I like to shut the door. I like to just be in there for a moment. I'm very quick. I don't, like, hang out and linger the way that you do.

But I don't linger when I pee.

Okay, well, I don't linger when I ever. When I'm doing any of my business. But I just like that to be my private time. I don't really, like, care to have you see me, especially not for pooping. But I want to be super clear, like, this is no shade on anybody else. We've actually heard. You know, people in our Instagram community have said, like, I love being able to pee and poop in front of my partner. Cause it feels like intimacy to me. Like, it feels like we're so comfortable with each other that we don't care about these things. There's no shame. And I think that's beautiful and wonderful, and I love that for you. So for me, it's not about a sense of shame. Like, that's why it's sort of weird to start with this extreme story. Because, like, yes, that was very early in the relationship, and I was like, I don't want you to see me like this.

So back then, it was, like, early in our relationship for you to be doing this, and I was like, I really care about you. I don't want you to fall over and, like, have a concussion on top of this.

Yeah. So now it is not about that, but it's Just like, I just like to have privacy. I like you to have your privacy. People asked a bunch of follow up questions like, well, has Xander ever peed in front of you?

All the time.

Every day. You love to pee with the door open. You're just like, I'm doing it.

Yeah. So, you know, I think that I initially did not pee in front of you. And then I. I believe you expressed some. Some intrigue at pissing. Pissing with a dick and what vulva owner hasn't.

And like, how does this work?

I think that you're a bit intrigued by it. You know, I mean, it's obviously, it's different. Like a guy peeing standing up versus, you know, a vulva owner sitting down on a toilet. Like, when you're sitting on a toilet, it's not. You can't really, like, see what's happening. It's, you know, it's. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I have a pretty good idea of what it would look like. I'm not feeling like I'm missing anything. Then again, you know, I was, I think, initially sort of out of respect, like, I closed the door as well. And then you were like, I don't care about you at all closing the door. And so I'm like, all right, whatever. I won't.

So now he talks to me all the time. I see it all the time. So.

But the other, the other thing.

Yeah.

Oh, the other thing I was going to say is that where we have happened to live, we've never been in a situation where, like, we have a single bathroom where, like, we did in Berlin. Oh, I guess that's true. But we just never. Maybe you don't take, like, out. You don't, like, spend like a long time, like, stuff or I mean, like, getting ready. I'm saying, like, we never ran. We never really ran into scenarios where it was like, oh, my God, I got a pee so bad. And you're like, I still have an hour left doing my whatever.

How long do you think women take to get ready?

I don't know. Some people take longer than others. No judgment. I'm saying, you know, like, let's say that you had a super long, like, hair and skincare and makeup routine. I don't know. I'm just saying that we would run into more issues of like, oh, my God, I gotta get in there. But the reality is we've never had that problem.

Yeah. All right. Never thought I'd talk about pee for so long, but there's that Next question. How often do we have sex?

You'll never know. You'll never know.

You look so smug right now.

We're doing it right now. Believe it or not.

This is one of the few questions that we have consciously decided that we will not answer. It's always been, like, from the very beginning of our work, that and do you have kids? Those are the two most commonly asked questions that we get.

We obviously answer the kid question. Yeah.

But we decided early on, we're like, how often? Often we have sex. Like, people are so curious about, like, what's the normal amount of sex and what's healthy and what am I supposed to be having? And we really see people get fixated on sexual frequency in a way that we don't think is helpful. Like, the reality is, how often you have sex is so not important. It's so much more about the quality of the sex that you're having. Are you having the kind of sex that you want to be having? Is it for both of you? Are you able to communicate about it? Are you exploring new things? Like, those things are so much more important than just frequency. There is the tendency, like, when we share stuff about our personal lives. I think a lot of times people do interpret that to be like, that's the right answer. And we've learned to become really sensitive about this because we want to be really clear. Like, whatever it is that we do in our relationship, our life, that is not the objective right thing. There are a lot of things that we do that would not work for other people. And, yeah, we don't want to be sending that message to people of, like, well, this is what we do. So this is the right thing, and this is what you should be doing. That's just not our style.

Yeah. And I think this also gets out sort of. I'll call it the magic bullet dynamic. In society, where we want so badly for, like, health stuff, for sex stuff, we want there to be like, that magic bullet, or, like, that magic pill, where it's like, all I need to do is take this one thing, and all of a sudden all these big problems I'm having, or these things that are really challenging or hard to talk about, they'll just go away. I won't need to talk about it. I won't need to put in work, I won't need to put in effort or time. Like, I'm just going to do this one thing. Everything is going to change. And, you know, we talk about with sex that, yeah, quality matters so much more than quantity. But the problem is a lot of people don't love hearing that. Because if you're talking about quality of sex and you want to improve that, you got to talk about it. You got to practice, you got to put in ever. You got to try new things. It's. It's a taller order than, like, is there a number? Like, if we could get to this number, then can we maybe just never have to talk about it? Never have to do any more work? And I think it's a mental shortcut that we all take. I find myself taking it all the time. Like, whenever I go to the doctor or something and have my blood work done, it's like, if I come out low in something, they're like, oh, you should take this whatever, supplement to get these, you know, your vitamin D levels up or something. There's a part of my brain that goes, oh, my God, maybe I'm gonna take that vitamin D supplement, and all of a sudden, I'm gonna have so much more energy. I'm not gonna be as sore or, like, you know, whatever.

The vitamin D, it's really good.

Yeah, I know.

It's the secret to my health and happiness.

Yeah. You got vitamin D. Vitamin D every. Oh, wait, no, I'm not gonna say how often. You almost got me.

So.

I mean, the doctor told me I had to take vitamin D every day.

Just listening to my doctor and actually, sadly, a D a day.

A D a day keeps the doctor away. No, but you know what? For me, I'm gonna be totally honest. I'm not exaggerating. I am low in vitamin D. I just had my BL work done, and I started taking a vitamin D supplement the exact amount the doctor recommended, and it gives me a headache. It gives me a headache, and it sucks. So for me, a D a day does not keep the doctor away. I gotta take less. Apparently, I'm a sensitive flower.

Oh, my God, that's another sweatshirt.

But anyway, I just wanted to say how common it is to. For that mental shortcut to come up of, like, I know that to fix this problem or to get better in this area, it's gonna take time. It's gonna take effort. But maybe there's that one. One little switch I can flip that's gonna have a huge impact and. Sorry, the reality is that that does not work. Like, all this stuff takes time and effort and work. There's no one thing or what, no one number that's magically gonna fix everything.

Yeah.

All right.

But we will spill a little bit of tea, because I know that people are curious. So here's what I will say. We do have a lot of sex, but we put a lot of effort into having a high quality sex that we actually want to have. We're really not focused on the frequency. We don't track it. We're not, like, you know, trying to hit this certain quota. Like, we really focus on having sex that feels enjoyable.

Yes.

So there's a lot of effort that goes into our sex life. There's another question about kind of along the same lines. So we'll get to that in a little bit. But we also each challenge ourselves to really make sex a priority. Like, we don't just wait for the desire to strike. We are not, like, waiting around for it to just be spontaneous and magical and effortless and perfect. Like, we both put a lot of effort into it. So we have a good amount of connection with each other.

Yeah. One of the things that I've. I've kind of always known this, but, like, has really been driven home to me in my own experience more recently, is that the best sex that we have comes at very random times.

Oh, yeah.

Very random times. Oftentimes time when I'm, like, wasn't totally feeling it, like, I'm a bit tired and, like, we start making out a little. I'm like, oh, okay, Yeah, I guess maybe I could do this. And it's like, well, bam. Like, amazing sex, amazing orgasm. And that's one of those really great lessons for me, is that it's like, yeah, the best times for me are not the times when I'm, like, super horny and like, oh, my God, I gotta get it.

I know.

I love the little thing, you know, it's the random. You know, and it's not always those random times. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But that helps me prioritize it. Cause I go, hey, you never know when the best time ever is gonna be. It might be next time.

Yeah. Next question. What's your employment history? What led you to where you are today?

Oh, let me pull out my resume. Well, okay, so. No, just kidding. Like I said, I graduated from college right before I met Vanessa. I studied government and psychology. And now, before you say, oh, my God, Xander's been tricking us this whole time. He's not a regular dude. He did study psychology. I don't know if you've ever taken psychology at a university and seen the range of psychology courses. There's, like, a really wide variety. I did nothing close to anything clinical. It was, like organizational psychology, which is Essentially consulting. I went into HR consulting, worked at a big firm for four years. It was kind of hell. Then I went, got a job at Google, working in their hr, doing HR and analytics. And I really thought that I was going to be doing stuff like that my whole life. I was really good at it. After I quit Google, I ended up kind of having some consulting clients on the side. But I quit Corporate America after about eight years. I was feeling burned out. Vanessa was starting to build this business up, and I was like, man, I would love to do something like that, but I have no idea how I could ever do that. Never felt the motivation to be an entrepreneur myself. I kind of struggled in school to stay motivated, so I just thought that I would always work for someone my whole life. But I took some time off. I started doing a couple projects for Vanessa here and there, and one thing led to another, and here I am like, co hbic.

Hell, yeah, co. Hbic. So there's another question that was kind of closely related to this one. That's more for me. People are always asking. They're like, you say that you have 20 years of experience in sex therapy. How old were you when you started?

Yeah, this is a really good one, because I find myself wondering this too. I'd, like, do the math in my head. I'm like, God, like, people are not gonna believe this, but it really is true. So, yeah, tell us how that came to be.

I started when I was 18. It's not a complicated answer. I knew that I wanted to be a sex therapist, so I started doing, like, research and internships. Like, there weren't glamorous jobs, and I wasn't, like, a sex therapist myself, but I was researching in the sex therapy field, getting educational.

Yeah. You were, like, interning for sex therapists.

Yeah, and doctors and research projects, like, all kinds of stuff. So I started at 18, and I continued doing that stuff, like, throughout college. I will say I took a little bit of a break after college because I did not know how to go about setting up this career. I had worked so long and so hard doing, like, education and research and internships and all this kind of stuff. And then when it came time to, like, all right, now you're on your own, I was like, I don't know what to do. So I had two jobs in between. I worked.

This was when. When we met.

Yeah, Basically, I was like a receptionist for a consulting firm. It was very unglamorous. I did a lot of stapling, collating.

I remember when. When we met, you really talked it up to me. I think you were like, oh, this guy actually works. Is. Is a consultant. And you. You kind of talked up your job, and then afterwards you're like, that was the. The worst fucking job I've ever had.

If anybody knows me from these days, I'm sorry. I was a terrible employee. I was really struggling. I was lost. I didn't know, like, I knew what I wanted to do, and I had all this experience, and I just didn't know how to create a business with it. And I was 22 years old and feeling like a loser because I don't know, like, what am I doing with my life? It's funny, the pressures that we put on ourselves when we're such babies, but.

Also, back then, I don't think you ever envisioned it would turn into this kind of business.

No, I was still thinking maybe I would want to be a doctor. I was pre med in college, and so I didn't get the psychology idea until several years later.

And even, like, it was like, oh, either a doctor or a psychologist that has, you know, a brick and mortar private practice that was sort of the pinnacle of what you might be.

Yeah. So I worked as a receptionist, and then I worked as, like, a marketing associate for another company that shall not be named. And then I got it together and went back to graduate grad school.

So you always had it together?

I mean, honestly, like, I've been researching sex and talking about sex probably since I was, like, 13, but we'll count. 18 was, like, the first official internship. All right, next question. How did you propose?

Oh, boy. You know, this is one of those ones where, if I could go back, I would do it a little differently, and I'll acknowledge that.

So let me do a little bit of the setup here. So basically, one of the things.

Help me out, help me out. Make me look a little better.

So we had had a lot of open conversations in our relationship about marriage, and we had been really clear with each other about, like, we don't want to do all the traditional, like, you're supposed to do it this way because that's how everybody does it kind of thing. Like, especially around the ring. Like, I was thinking, I was like, I'm wearing this ring for the rest of my life. I want to love it. I think it's a lot of pressure to put on you to just, like, find the magic perfect ring. Without, of course, like, I wanted to be surprised and like, oh, my God, he just knows me so well. He got me this beautiful, perfect ring. But I was like, that's not realistic. So we made the conscious decision. We're like, we're gonna get engaged. I think we even told our parents, like, we're gonna get engaged. And they're like, well, but are you engaged? We're like, not yet, but we're gonna.

Yeah. I mean, we must have told them that we were shopping for rings, especially, because we ended up. We bought a diamond online.

Yeah. So we went shopping for rings together. I picked out what I wanted to look like. We shopped for a diamond online because we were being budget conscious and.

Oh, there is. Yeah. If you are. If you are in the market, don't go to a ring store and, like, buy a ring with a preset stone. Like, do not do it. You can do so much better.

Oh, yeah.

For the same price or less.

Yeah. So I was a part of the whole ring process. I basically had told Xander, like, I would like you to ask me, but I don't want a whole big thing about it. Like, I don't want to, like, give any examples because I don't want to make anybody feel bad. If you wanted a big, elaborate proposal, all the power to you. I love that. I just knew that that wasn't something for me that I wanted.

Yeah. I think you were clear. Like, I don't need it to be, like, a big surprise thing where there's, like, a videographer hiding behind a bush, all our friends jump out, and it's like, surprise.

Honestly, like, my ideal dream proposal would have been we wake up on, like, Sunday morning and you just, like, pull the ring out, and we're like, I want to have Sunday morning with you.

Well, the reality was we were quite close to that, but not quite. I think if I had been able to wait, like, 48 hours, we would have probably had a pretty close to ideal proposal. So here's what happened. We bought a stone online and then brought it to a jewel and had it set in a ring, and we had a trip to Hawaii planned. It was looking like the ring would be ready before the trip to Hawaii. And so it was kind of like, okay, well, Vanessa is assuming that I'm going to propose to her in Hawaii, because, you know, that would be pretty damn romantic. Right. I wanted to do that, too. I think that we were, like, one to two days out from leaving, and it was probably like, four o'. Clock. I was at work and I get a call from the drawer, and they're like, the ring is ready. I had, like, a. A bunch of errands. I was supposed to run on my way home from work. And I was like, there's no way I can get the ring. And, you know, this is like, we lived in San Francisco. I didn't have a car. I'm, like, taking the. The bots around, like, trying to get to various places that are not convenient to get to this. This is pre Uber, by the way. And so, yeah, I'm basically like, all right, whatever. I'm just gonna go pick up this ring. And I was like, once I had the ring in my hand, oh, my God. Like, I've never had this much like, responsibility, like, in one hand. It's. This is. This is so much money in my hand. Oh, my God. How am I gonna wait a couple of days? Like, I'm gonna have to hide this ring. I don't know where I'm gonna put it. What if I lose it? I built it up to be this really big, scary thing. And I was like, you know what? I.

What?

I've already kind of deceived Vanessa. She thinks that I'm running all these errands, when in reality, I was waiting for, like, an hour at the dumb jeweler to get the ring handed to me. So I was like, you know what? I'm just going to pretend that I have a bag full of this stuff that I was supposed to get on my errands. I'm going to hand it to Vanessa, be like, oh, look, here's what I got. And then the ring will be at the bottom of the bag, and then I'll propose right then. Because I was like, there's no way that I can. And act normal for the next couple of days knowing I have this ring. I was so excited and scared. Aw. Even though I knew you were gonna say yes. And so, yeah, I handed Vanessa this bag. She.

Wait. Okay, so the big missing part of the story is that we were supposed to go to a friend's birthday party that night. So Xander was late and came in the door, and so I was, like, at the house, getting super cranky about, like, oh, my God, we're late to our friend's birthday party. Like, what is going on? So he hands me the bag, and I'm already cranky with.

Great. A recipe for success.

Looking through it, and I think there was something that you were supposed to get that you didn't get. And so, of course, that's the one thing that I'm like, where's da da, da da? And then I see the box at the bottom of the bag.

And then I was down on My knee. And I proposed, and I said yes.

And we cried, and it was very lovely and nice.

And then we went to a party and got to tell a bunch of people.

We sort of, like, ruined his birthday. It was not very nice, actually.

No. Was it a birthday party? I feel like it was maybe like. Like Passover or something like that.

I don't know. We stole a little bit of thunder. We tried. We didn't make, like, stand up and make a big announcement or anything like that, but people obviously, like, saw the ring on my hand, were like, yeah, we're engaged. But anyways, I mean, it was not the perfect proposal. It was not a fairy tale, beautiful proposal. But I like sharing our story because I think we build up all this pressure in our heads of, like, I'm gonna be telling this story for the rest of my life, and it has to be perfect. And if it wasn't a good proposal, like, what does that say about the marriage and all this stuff? And it's like, you know what? It doesn't have to be that way. And again, like, if you want a large, elaborate proposal, that's great. And, like, I hope that you get to have the exact proposal that you want. But it's okay if it's not perfect. Like, I don't look back at it and think, like, oh, God, I hate my proposal story. Or, you know, I don't. Like, when people ask me what happened, it's just like, yeah, it's kind of a funny little story. It's not exactly how I would have wanted it to happen, but that's okay. And it's our story.

Yeah. And I think the nice thing is that, you know, over the years, we've been able to have, on our anniversaries and stuff, you know, like, more exciting surprises, like surprise trips or, you know, fancy hotels or stuff like that, where it's not, like, the most exciting thing that's ever happened to us was this one time, years and years and years ago when I proposed. Like, there's sort of, like, always more to look forward to.

All right. Does sex ever feel like work? Since it's your career, do you feel pressured to have an amazing story sex life?

This is a really interesting question. We get this question a lot. This is maybe like, the third most popular question that we get. And it's funny because I never really understand the premise of this question. I mean, I guess it's testament to, like, how I do view our sex life and then our work. I don't really view them as intertwined, especially because we don't. We don't talk about how much sex we have. I think that if our.

We're not giving, like, play by plays of, like, every night. Like, okay, here's what happened last night.

Yeah. I mean, if that's what our. Our Instagram account was about, then we might be getting into some sketchy territory where our sex life does feel like work. It feels like what we do for work and our sex life. Like, they're synergistic, but they're not intertwined.

Yeah, I would agree. And I think the goal of our business is not to tell you, like, here's how to have a perfect sex life where it's always sexy and hot and amazing and spontaneous.

We're not sex influencers, sex fluencers.

I mean, we sort of are, but. But yeah, I mean, the point of our work is to help real, everyday couples have really special sex lives. And that doesn't mean perfect. We want you to be able to, like, make mistakes in the bedroom and have something go wrong and be able to talk about it afterwards and not feel like the world is over. Like, it's just. It's not about reaching this ideal of perfection. So I never feel that pressure of, like, our sex life has to be perfect because I'm not trying to teach anybody else how to have a perfect sex life. And also, I think that the thing that people really relate with is, like, when we share stories of how our sex life isn't perfect, moments that we get awkward or something funny happens in the bedroom, or Xander initiated and I wasn't in the mood. Nobody wants to. To hear from somebody who's like, yep, another perfect night of smoking hot sex. It's like, yeah, you feel more connected to us when we show you our humanity. And I. That word, I think, is like, the most central thing that comes up for me is, like, humanity. Perfection's never the goal. I'm not perfect. I'm not even gonna strive to be perfect. I don't want you to strive to be perfect. Let's just be humans in the bedroom. So, yeah, for me, it never feels like a sense of pressure at all. And I also don't feel like I'm, like, having sex with you in order to have something to talk about in our business. Or, like, you know, it's like, that's our sex life, and we get to talk about it in our career, but they feel separate to me in that. Although I will say there was something that I did yesterday. Oh, that was for work.

Okay, what was it? I Was actually about to bring up another thing that we did for work, but you do yours first.

Okay. So yesterday I was giving you a blow job, and I had to try out the technique of putting it under my tongue. Because a couple of weeks ago on Instagram, we had a story about, like, what's the funniest sex tip that you tried out? And it just went horribly awry. And we shared. Like, somebody said, oh, I thought you were supposed to put the dick under your tongue during a blowjob. And we were like, what the hell? No. And then we got a bunch of DMs from people saying, like, no, I do this. And, like, that's what I thought you're supposed to do.

Or no. Or like, people saying, no, this is why I do it. It works really well for me.

Yeah. So I had to try it out, and it did not work.

I mean, maybe we. No, it wasn't. Wasn't bad. There were some other extenuating circumstances yesterday. I would like to try it again.

To me, it just. Well, because people were saying they're like, oh, the reason that it works is because it fools the guy into thinking that he's deep throating and he's, like, hitting the back of your throat. But I was like, I don't. I have a large tongue, but I could get you, like, one inch in under my tongue. I was like, this is not fooling anybody. Does not think that he's hitting the back of my throat right now. Like, his penis. This is.

Yeah, Like, I can. I can see how far in. In her mouth it is.

It's barely in there. Okay.

I just have the tiniest little throat. I have a shallow throat.

Your lady voice just slays me.

A little girl with a tiny throat.

God. Jesus.

All right.

What were you going to say, though?

Oh, I was going to say, you know, I think the last time that I really thought about it of our work, work translating into the bedroom, was when we were putting together the Sex Positions playbook. Oh. And we needed to test out a number of positions or, you know, try, like, oh, is this one worth putting in the playbook? And that was fun. That was a lot of fun. However, I can imagine that if we were putting out products like that content, if our business was built around, like, sex position of the weak membership or something like that, it was all about, like. Like, needing to create new stuff. Yeah. I mean, I think that. I think the reality is it probably would be fun. But I'm saying I could see how if that was, like, constantly we had A backlog of, like, oh, my God, there's 20 positions we gotta try, and we're behind schedule. Then it could maybe start to feel tedious, but I don't think that's not the direction we're going necessarily.

All right, this next question is pretty closely related to the last one, but I think it's interesting on its own. Does talking about sex all the time make you. You want to have less of it?

Very interesting. Interesting wording, because I would actually flip this one around and say I really firmly believe that the secret to having really good and probably more sex is to talk about it. And I find in my experience, us doing this for work, I actually probably have more sex or want to have more sex, because we're talking about it, because it feels really like, it doesn't feel scary to initiate sex, or if I'm feeling a little horny, like. Like. Like, hey, you want to take a call? You know, take a little break and head over to the bedroom or somewhere else?

Yeah. I think that this is a funny example of the weird ways that a scarcity mindset can come creeping into our brains. I think a lot of people seem to think that talking about stuff takes away the specialness of it. Like, we've even gotten questions before of like, oh, do you say I love you every day? That makes it.

Yeah, I was gonna bring this up.

Makes it mean. Like, if you say it all the time for me, absolutely not. Like, talking about it does not make me want it less or does not take away the specialness of it. Like, talking about it keeps it top of mind for me, and it makes it feel like you and I are, like, flirting with each other. There's this sexual energy that we keep alive and going and simmering all throughout the day. I mean, I really think that that has been the key. Even I will say, like. Like, once you started joining me on Instagram and we started doing stories to together every single day, like, about a year and a half ago, our sex life got so much better right around then, too.

Oh, yeah. That was a huge turning point, you know, in a lot of ways in our relationship. And I will acknowledge I did struggle before that because I was struggling with my own sex drive for a long time. I was struggling with, like, what is it that I really want? How do I show up as a man? In our relationship, there was a bit of a challenge where I was like, I know what Vanessa would say for work, but I don't necessarily feel like I'm doing that myself. And really, the reality was once I got out there and we started just talking about it and I kind of started like living in the truth of what we were talking about. That's when everything changed for me. And I think we hear from a lot of people who say, like, my partner is always trying to talk about sex. I just want him to stop. Stop. It bothers me. And I think the reality is like, yeah, if you feel uncomfortable talking about sex, if you feel some shame in your sex life or you haven't kind of worked through certain issues, then, yeah, hearing people talk about it or the prospect of just talking about it more feels really icky. And it's like, oh, God, that's going to make me want it less. But I think once you kind of can get through any shame or hang ups or whatever that you're having, then talking about it is really great. Then it doesn't diminish anything, it adds to it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we just believe so strongly in the power of talking about your sex life. That's what we're writing a whole book about it for Simon and Schuster. All right, next question. Do you get jealous of other relationships? So I'll give you a minute to think about this one because I think you might need a minute to think about it. Maybe I put you a little too on the spot with this one. And so I'll answer it first and say, like, for me personally, I don't ever get jealous of other people's relationships because I believe so deeply in our uniqueness and in all of us. Different things work for different people and in different relationships. I don't think that there's any one right or best way to do anything in relationships. You know, when I see another couple, I just don't compare myself to them because it just feels so, so different. I just think like, hey, whatever it is that's working for them, that's awesome. I love that. And it may or may not work for me, but like, ultimately I think our business really exists to bring more love into the world. And so when I see love in the world, I'm just happy for other people. I've struggled with jealousy in other ways, you know, And I know, like, especially with social media, it's really easy to look at everybody's highlight reel and just think like, oh my God, what a perfect, amazing life they have. I mean, I've looked at people's houses, right? Or like people flying private, off to these super luxury vacations and been like, that looks nice, you know, I don't look at other People's relationships and think, like, oh, my God, they just look so much better than we do. I just don't. I don't know. I don't compare in that way.

I don't really either. I feel pretty similarly to what you just said. I think that. Yeah, jealousy doesn't crop up for me very often. When it does, it tends to be more around like. Like, things like, oh, those pe. It looks like those people just got a really nice house or went on a really nice trip or something. And that's still. It's a pretty rare thing for me. I. I just. Yeah, I feel like what we have is really special and really unique. I can't really imagine it any other way. And so, yeah, I feel really secure and confident. And, you know, when I do notice any kind of jealousy coming up about, like, somebody else's, like, business success or, like, other. Other thing like that, I just. I see that as an opportunity to be like, oh, huh. Like, there's something maybe that I'm not feeling so comfortable with. And, like, is there a way that I could go about adding more and more of that in my life? Is there a way that, you know, like, oh, I'm jealous of someone going on this trip? Like, oh, well, I could. You know, maybe it's time for me to start planning a trip somewhere cool.

That's the best reframe that I've ever heard of. Jealousy is thinking about jealousy. The at is like, instead of being angry or upset at that person for evoking jealousy in you, could you instead look at it as, like, this person is showing me what's possible?

Yeah.

If you're getting jealous about somebody having, like, a big, beautiful home, it's like, no. That they're just showing you. Look at what's possible. Look at what kind of homes are out there. And obviously there are, like, much more complex issues around. You know, there are a lot of systemic issues that go into this. But I think looking at it that way of, like, what is. Is this person showing me? What is it evoking in me? Because jealousy is a pretty shitty feeling.

Yeah. Because I think it's really easy when you feel that feeling of jealousy to go the other way and be like, I don't want that, like, as a way of justifying to yourself, like, why you shouldn't feel jealous of, like, oh, well, I wouldn't want to go on a trip like that because that's so excessive. Or that's. I don't. That country sucks or whatever, you know, like. Like just finding Some way to rationalize, like, why what you are doing or what you have or what you don't have is better than that other person. But, yeah, I just try to look at it as, like, oh, huh. It's feeling like that's something that maybe I want. So what are ways that I could go about having some of that in my life?

And I will say, too, like, we have gotten messages from people saying, like, oh, I'm so jealous of your relationship. And, like, I just want to be super clear that we're not setting ourselves out there as the gold standard. I mean, it's like what I said a little bit earlier. Like. Like, the things that we choose to do in our relationship, we do not think they're objectively right, or everybody should be copying us. And, like, you should want to have a relationship just like ours. Like, there are plenty of dynamics of our relationship that you could plop two other people into this relationship and they would hate it, you know?

Or, like, absolutely, like, yeah, I think there are a lot of people. If you just did exactly what we do, you might be bored.

And I think, like, some ladies get jealous of you, and they're like, oh, I wish I had a Xander. You know what? You might bring him home, and he's just not a good fit for your life. You don't know me. So obviously we can't control how anybody else reacts, but we just like to be super clear about saying, like, we're not perfect. We're not trying to put ourselves out there to be perfect and not trying to set ourselves to be the gold standard. All right, so this is kind of a similar question, too. But our last question here is, your relationship seems so happy. Would you still consider it taking work?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

110%. Yeah. I don't think the work in a relationship ever ends. I think that's probably one of the biggest fallacies out there. This idea that somehow once we're committed or once we're married, that the work ends that, like, oh, well, you know, oh, I do things in courtship that I don't like. And as soon as, like, the courtship is over, I don't have have to do it anymore. It's hard work to live with another person and, like, share your whole lives and, you know, kind of create, like, a shared or, like, not a merged life, but, like, you know, we have to deal with each other all the time, and it's hard. And also, the reality is that you change throughout your relationship. Vanessa and I have been a number of different People, like, since we've met each other, we've. Who I am now feels very different from the person who met Vanessa however many years ago that was. 14. 15.

How many years?

14. Oh, my God.

Putting you on the spot was something.

I did 14 years ago. 14 years ago.

It'll be 15 in December.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Close to a little more than 14 years ago. You know, if you need any proof of why it keeps needing work, it's because you're both going to continue to change. You're both going to continue to evolve. And so, yeah, you have to keep putting in work to make sure that the people that you're becoming, like, still love each other and are still interested in each other.

Yeah. We put a lot of work into our relationship, and it's really important to us to normalize that and also to, like, uncover ways to make that feel more fun. So I will be totally honest. There are some days where we're, you know, we're trying to communicate about something, and we're just miscommunicating so badly. And I absolutely think to myself at times, like, how is it this much work to have one simple conversation? But we also try to think of, like, fun ways to put in work, like going on trips together and coming up with new things to do together and, you know, just being creative with each other. But, yeah, there's absolutely a lot of effort that goes into our relationship, and that's normal and healthy and a good thing. All right, let's do a lightning round.

Okay.

Just a couple questions. All right, Fast responses.

Okay.

How old were you when you first had sex with a partner? Your sexual debut?

I was 16. Backseat of my car at the drive in movie theater.

I was also 16. In my bed, in my room, while my parents were out. Sorry, mom and dad. What are your enneagram types?

Oh, my God. I'm blanking. You know my number. What is it?

You're a nine.

I'm a nine. I was gonna say that. I was like, it's a nine or a three.

I'm a three.

Okay.

Morning person or night owl?

Morning.

Morning. And that's something that's changed. We used to be night owls, and now we're both on that morning train and loving it.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if I ever was really a proper night owl. Like, I. I feel like I always fancied myself a night owl, but I.

Fancy myself a night owl.

But, yeah, I finally realized, thank God, that I am really a morning person, and my life has gotten much better Once I came around to. Okay, let's just do that. You can go to bed at 9. That's cool. You're gonna be way happier.

Oh, yeah. We are definitely early birds. Do you have a TV in your bedroom?

Hell, no. We used to.

We used to. And we are very happy that we don't anymore. It actually. Studies have shown that people who do not have a TV in the bedroom have more sex. That's definitely the case for us. And it also helps us sleep a lot better too. Where would you live if not California? Last question.

Oh, man, that's hard. I mean, for me, it has to be somewhere I can surf. So it would probably be somewhere like Hawaii or Mexico or New Zealand.

We do love.

Yeah. You know, in New Zealand. We went to New Zealand on our honeymoon in. And I would love to go back. We only saw a small slice of New Zealand, even though we were there for a while. Cause it's big. I would very happily live there.

I'm gonna say nowhere. Cause I just. California, girl for life.

Yeah, California. I am too calm. I was born and raised here. And it has its challenges living here. It is real, real, real expensive. But, um, yeah, sometimes when you're just born and raised somewhere, it's hard. It's hard to leave. It's hard to leave. It just feels like home.

All right, well, that is the end of our questions for today. We have a lot of other questions that we got asked too. And so if you guys want us to do a part two, I will work on getting over myself and think about it.

Give send Vanessa some compliments or you actually want to hear about her.

I'm very self conscious about this. But we had other questions, like what do we fight about? Did we ever struggle with our sexual compatibility? Do we go to therapy? What does our family think about what we do? So if you want to hear the answers to those things, then let us know and maybe we'll do a part two. But otherwise, if you are not already following us on Instagram and YouTube, please check us out there. We're on Instagram every day doing stories, and we do YouTube videos once a week and every Tuesday about fun little topics. So check out both those and follow us there.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening and join us again next week. We can't wait.