Episode 42: Are You Sexually Compatible?

We hear from so many couples who are like, my partner just never wants to give to me. And they immediately turn it back on themselves and go, what is wrong with me?

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Are we sexually compatible? This is one of the scariest questions that can come up in relationships. If you have ever found yourself doubting whether you and your partner are truly sexually compatible or not, this can be a really, really painful question. Like, what do you do if you found somebody who's such a good match for you in every other way, but it feels like the sexual compatibility just isn't there? Or maybe it felt compatible at the beginning and now you're feeling like you're completely on different pages. It can lead to this feeling of is the relationship doomed? Are we not going to work out? What does it mean that our compatibility isn't where it should be?

Is there anything we can do about it?

Oh, yeah. Lots of big questions get stirred up by this topic. So we decided we had to devote an entire episode. Episode. To it. And so today we are going to talk about what it really means to be sexually compatible. And we're actually going to share a model that I created about sexual compatibility. The six sides of sexual compatibility. You like that alliteration?

Sounds exciting.

Six sides?

What shape has six sides? Hexagon.

Hexagon.

The hexagons. The sexual compatibility hex. Hexagon.

The hex of sex.

Oh, the hex of sex. That's great.

That sounds kind of scary actually.

Copyright that shit.

Sounds like you're going to put a curse on me.

I know.

Speaking. I have to do a quick little aside. So we were in Hawaii recently celebrating my birthday and my parents 40th anniversary and it was in the middle of us closing out our intimate or nasty Valentine's Day launch. One little thing that I'm not sure if we've shared before that we do this, but one thing that we do is for every person who purchases one of our courses, Xander and I thank you.

Verbally.

Yeah, verbally. We take a minute, we Open up all of the emails and we say, like, thank you, Jessica. Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, MacKenzie. The clear, popular name.

Yes, Mackenzie.

Aside, Within and aside. Within and aside. We have a very good grasp on what the most popular names are in the general English speaking world. And MacKenzie, for far and away, probably by two or three times, is the most popular.

And also spelled every possible way you could imagine. We're always seeing, like, a new way to spell McKenzie. It's like M, Y, K, K, I, E, N, Z, E, Y. It's like nuts. Every single time.

Maybe followed by, like, Michaela. Also spelled in every possible way you could ever imagine. And then some.

Okay, so let me roll it back. So we say thank you to every single one of you. We just take a moment to, like, send you good vibes and to hope that you get what it is that you were looking for when you sign up for one of our courses.

Oh, yeah.

So when we were in the middle of closing down that launch, we had a lot of people signing up, and it was especially on the last day, people tend to wait till the last minute. And so we were saying our thank yous. And my family was nearby and they. It wasn't my brother. He was like, are you guys, like, casting a spell or something?

Or. Ch. We're doing. We're doing the Sex hex.

We were doing the Sex Hex. Exactly. Bringing it back. Okay. Wow. Where did we start off from that? Okay, so we're gonna talk about the sex hex, all six sides. And I think we are gonna leave you feeling more hopeful than you started this episode with.

We sure hope so.

And we are also gonna do something fun for each of the six sides. We are going to share our own compatibility in that area. So Xander and I have not talked about this before.

No, we have not.

We're gonna do it on the fly and kind of surprise each other and do a 1 to 10 ranking of each side. Like, okay, if 1 is the worst, 10 is ultra compatible. We're practically the same person. Where do we fall? So we'll see how we fall.

Yeah. Are we. Are we actually sexually compatible? Should we just immediately break up after this episode?

Oh, God. This is a high stakes episode.

It is.

Wow.

Okay, I think, spoiler alert. We are not breaking up after this episode. Episode.

You just set the stakes so high and then you just took them back down.

Future. Future. Xander is editing himself in right here. So, nope, we didn't break up.

Great. I'm so glad we're not gonna break up mid Podcast.

But I am gonna break up our flow right here. I'm gonna break up our flow right here because, you know, it's coming. I'm giving you our review of the week. Listen up. This podcast is for everyone. I started listening shortly after following their Instagram. Wow. It has really opened my eyes to changes that needed to be made in my marriage. I love that Vanessa and Xander share the how to on navigating delicate topics. They're also so funny and easy to listen to. I'm about one week into listening to these podcasts daily, and my sex life has dramatically improved. Let's go.

Ooh, these are some good emojis.

And wow, I've never seen this one. It looks like. Well, it's like a knot, but I would say, you know, tying the knot. Mind blown, pumping, beating heart. Shy monkey.

Shy monkey.

Shy. He's got his hand over his mouth and he's like, oopsies, oopsie, oopsie, monkey.

Shy.

Monkey, monkey, see monkey. Oopsie.

Oh, God.

And then white rabbit.

Well, thank you so much for this absolutely delightful review. Your reviews mean so much to us. I really did understand this before having a podcast myself. Reviews truly are the best way for podcasts to grow, so it means the world to us. If you take a minute to leave a ranking or write a couple of quick sentences about the podcast as our little thank you, we do our weekly giveaway. So we pick one review to be featured every week, and if you are the winner, you can DM us over on Instagram anessamarintherapy and ask us a question. And we will give you a free, free, mini, personalized coaching session. You'll get a voice note back from both of us with specific ideas, exercises, tips, techniques, all that fun stuff. So that's just our way of saying thank you for leaving a review. That was a good one.

Is that like, an example of this couple? Like, there's one shy monkey and a little white rabbit.

Maybe. Who knows? All right, so let's get into it. As always, we went over to Instagram to ask a few questions about sexual compatibility. So first we kind of simply. Have you ever wondered if you and your partner are sexually compatible? 71% of people said yes. 71% of people have doubted the sexual compatibility in their relationship.

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. You're allowed to wonder about stuff, especially when you're in the middle of a fight or a challenging period. I know we've been through our own challenges with sex drive and compatibility, and in kind of moments of shame, I'VE been like, oh, my God, is this. Is there something just wrong? And so I can totally relate with this.

Yeah. We also asked a follow up question. We said, okay, if you answered yes to that, have you ever thought that you might need to break up because you felt so incompatible? So we wanted to get a sense of, like, how incompatible do you feel? 38% of people said yes. So that, I mean, that's another big percentage that it's to the point where you're really considering breaking up.

Yeah. So there's a lot of people. There's still a majority of people saying no, they aren't considering breaking up. So, you know, that tells me. Yeah, there are a lot of people where it's like, this is a serious thing. But at the same time, there's also a lot of people who are like, worrying about sexual compatibility, but not yet to the point where they're like, oh, my God, it's over.

Yeah.

This can be just a nagging thing that goes through our minds. Is something wrong with us? We're always doing that. We're always like, there's something wrong with my body. Is something wrong with my job? Is something wrong with me? Is something wrong with whatever.

So we also asked people to describe to us what sexual compatibility means to them. And we were going through the responses and people shared a little bit of everything. But by far and away, the most common response was this really stereotypical definition that you always see of, like, spontaneous, effortless, perfect movie sex. Everything happens so easy. It just flows, it just fits. It's always wildly passionate. It was interesting to see that, that this idea of, like, this perfect sex life, that was the stand that most people were holding up as, like, this is what it means to be sexually compatible. You know, this is such a huge part of the work we do is trying to dismantle that myth and help people realize, like, the way that we see sex in the movies is not realistic. That is just not how sex works, especially in long term relationships. So we're gonna break down compatibility a whole lot more. But it was just interesting to see that, like, this is another way that that myth comes up.

So, Vanessa, I am curious what inspired this model? Like, where do these models come from? You know, as a sex therapist, you have a. You have a couple different things. I'm just curious. I feel like that people want to know, like, how does one have create a model.

My hexes. I just set a hex and then I just pops into my brain. I don't know. Honestly, it just. I come up with this stuff. But the original reason why I wanted to create a model for sexual compatibility is because I think it's just this really big topic that most of us cannot wrap our minds around. Like, it just feels like this really big scary topic. And one of our favorite things to do is try to break things down into more manageable bite sized pieces. So rather than just like, are you compatible? Yes or no? Tell me now. Okay, no. But what does compatibility actually mean? What are the pieces that feed into it? What are ways that we can work on it and improve it and change it and understand it? That's what I wanted to do here.

You know what this is reminding me of when you were talking about, like, it's a big scary topic. I'm like, I'm not sure if, you know, most people listening have this or not, but you know, like in your house, maybe your parents house, they have like an attic. It's like full of stuff, all kinds of stuff. Vanessa's parents have an attic which is full of tons and tons of things. And you're probably like, I want that thing. It's probably in the attic. But like, I don't even want to go up there. It's scary, it's messy, there's spider webs everywhere. Like, oh my God. I don't even, I don't even want to deal with this. I'd just rather not even go up there and have to deal with all of the mess and the clutter. So like your model, it's like organizing the attic. Okay. We've got all the furniture in this end. We got the boxes here because I think recently, I think maybe it was your brother cleaned out your parents attic. And it's like very well organized now and it's like a joy to go up there.

Okay. Yeah, you're right. That is what we're doing here. So let's clean up the attic today. Yeah, let's get into the first side of the attic. So this is going to be the obvious one. Side number one is frequency. So this is the thing that comes to mind, you know, most often when people think about sexual compatibility. Like, are we on the same page about how often we want to have sex? So we chose to start with this one because we think that most people drastically overestimate the importance of frequency. And we've talked about this before. You know, I think sex just gets us all so worked up and nervous and anxious that we want to focus on something that seems simple. And a number seems simple.

Oh, yeah. And. And we also get so in our head about rejection, I think it's so easy to be like, I cannot deal with any amount of possible rejection, like, even one time, that it's like, if there is one rejection, you're like, oh, my God, we're not compatible. You want it more than I do. And it's like, hold on a second. That happened one time, or that happens once a month, or that whatever the number is. And it's like, you guys are pretty much in the same ballpark in terms of what you want. And it's more of just like, oh, let me work on how we each handle consideration, you know, considering each other's initiations rather than pivoting into, you wanted sex and I didn't, something must be horribly wrong with us.

And we do have an episode about rejection in relationships. So go back and check that out if this is a big issue in your relationship. So, I mean, obviously, frequency is important to an extent. Like, if you have somebody who wants to have sex multiple times a day and they have a partner who wants to have sex a couple of times a year, obviously that's going to be a difficult relationship. Those two may not be compatible in the long run. So frequency is important. But like we just said, like, most people tend to drastically overestimate the importance of frequency. And that's because partially, like, frequency is always in flux. You know, it's funny to hear people talk about, like, oh, well, you know, if we have sex twice a week or three times a week, is that normal? Is that healthy? And I always think, who can guarantee that they are always going to want sex exactly three times per week, every single week for all of eternity. Frequency is just always changing. You know what we're looking for, how much we want it. That is always changing. So you can't permanently get on the same page and, like, make this contract of, okay, we're going to have sex once per week for every single week going forward. So you don't have to be on exactly the same page about frequency. But again, you want to be, like, roughly in the same ballpark. So where do you think we land on the scale? So 1 is completely incompatible. 10 is. We are practically the same person.

And we're talking about right now in this season of our relationship, in this.

Season of our relationship. So I'll count to three, and then you want to say our numbers at the same time.

Sure. Okay.

One. Two, Three.

Nine.

We're in a good season about frequency right now.

Yeah, we are in a good season. I only said 9 and not 10. Because currently, I think one of us probably initiates a little bit more than the other.

Oh, and who is that? You can spill the tea.

It me.

It is. Yeah, we've gone through seasons where that has been very different as well.

It's been very opposite.

Very opposite. But that's currently the season that we're in now. And, yeah, we have been in seasons where the frequency felt very off, you know, where I wanted it a lot more, you wanted it a lot more. But for now.

But right now, I'm a certified horn dog.

We're both certified horn dogs. If you don't follow us on Instagram, you definitely should. We're at Vanessa Marin therapy, but I shared that my birthday present was a certified horn dog sweatshirt one of our team members, Keely made for me coordinated with Laura, another one of our team members. But that was a joke that we shared on the podcast. Certified horn dog originated from the podcast. I joked about really wanting merch.

We are inching closer and closer to merch. I mean, we have. We essentially have prototypes. And that says wearing a prototype.

I got that certified horn dog sweatshirt, and I love it.

And it says woof in small. In small font at the bottom. It's so cute.

Okay, let's get into side number two of sex hex. And that is preferences. So this is all about the specific things that you enjoy doing in the bedroom, how you define sex, what activities you like to do, how long you like to be intimate for, how much you're willing to try new things and go out of your comfort zone or mix it up, keep it spicy. This is another facet that is really misunderstood. We think. We think that a lot of people feel like they're supposed to be in perfect alignment around their desires and preferences and needs in the bedroom, but the reality is that there's a lot of room for flexibility. So we also have a podcast episode about this. Like, I think it's called what to do if your partner shares their fantasy and you are not into it. Again, this is something like, we hear so much. People will tell us, oh, my God, my partner wants to do this, but I don't want to do that. Or they're turned on by this, and I'm not turned on by that. And it gets really scary to think about, like, wanting different things in the bedroom. But again, like, I just don't think that this is the most important aspect of compatibility. It's important. It is a piece of the puzzle, but it's not the defining thing for the majority of couples. I'd say, yeah.

I mean, there's shades of everything. But of course, if everything that you want is the opposite of what your partner wants, yeah, that is an issue. No one is going to be happy in that type of relationship. But on the flip side, I think there be almost something fun when it's like you have one or two things that you're really into that maybe you guys don't do constantly. And sometimes you do, and it can be really exciting because sometimes what makes something exciting is that you don't do it very often. I know for me, I have found there are certain things that we are not doing. Then sometimes I find myself fantasizing about them more, and then we start doing them more and then all of a sudden I'm like, oh, okay, I'm good. Going back to the quote, I'm putting it in air quotes, the normal stuff or whatever. It's kind of like a push pull of like, once we start doing something a lot more, then I'm like, okay, cool. Not really fantasizing about this so much anymore. And then you don't do it for a while and you're like, ooh, now I can't stop thinking about it.

You know, I would even take this particular side even further and say that it can be a positive to not be compatible in this area because I'm not fully. Yeah, fully compatible. Like, I sort of think about it, but, like, think about having different hobbies or interests outside of the bedroom. Like, if you and your partner are both into surfing and crossword puzzles and reading. Cool. You get to share those things.

Did you just list it out, like, what we like to do?

No, I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say, like, if both partners are super into those things, like, that is fun and you do get to, like, bond over that. But also, how cool is it when you meet somebody who's like, I love to play guitar, and the other person's like, oh, I've never played guitar before, but maybe you get curious about learning. Or maybe you love your partner playing guitar for you and, like singing songs to you. Finding somebody who has slightly different interests, it just exposes you to different things.

Yeah. Pushes you each out of each other, out of the comfort zone a little bit. Whereas if you have like perfect, perfect, perfect alignment in this stuff, I could see it getting kind of boring or stale quickly.

Yeah.

Okay, cool. All my needs, needs are met and I'm just never going to think about it again.

Exactly. So I think the same sort of thing can apply here. So Maybe you're not somebody who is into bdsm, but you find a partner who likes to tie you up or give you a little bit of a spanking, and you're like, oh, this is actually kind of fun. I never realized that I would be into this, so I think it can be a positive just from that exposure aspect of it. Again, like we were saying, you know, this is all a matter of degrees. If you're, like, the things that. That sound hot and sexy to you are the exact opposite of the things that are hot and sexy to your partner, of course that relationship's gonna struggle. But the basic idea of, like, trying new things and being exposed to new interests and activities, I think that can be a positive. Okay, so where would you say, I need to think about this one for a second?

Yeah, this is. I mean, especially given the way that we just described it. God.

Okay, are you ready? I think I'm ready.

Yeah, I'm ready.

Okay. One, two, three.

Seven. Oh, wait, did you say it sounded like you said said it in German. Sieben.

I just switched to German. No, I said seven.

Okay.

Yeah, we'll have to listen to the playback on that one. I was alternating in my head between 6 and 7, and I decided at the last second to say 7.

7.

7. I think for us, it's been a good thing that we're interested in, like, slightly different things.

Yeah, adjacent. Adjacent things.

Oh, I like that. Adjacent. Yeah. There's nothing that one of us is wildly into and the other is wildly not into, but we are, like, different people who have different ideas of what feels fun in the bedroom.

Yeah. And I feel like we have a generally accepted set of things that we do together, and then occasionally we bring something else in. Mm.

All right, Side number three. So now we're gonna get into the ones that are a little less obvious, I think. So this one is mood, and this is the atmosphere that you like to create during sex.

Yeah, I think this is a huge one. We get so many dms about this. People underestimate the importance of mood. People are like, all he wants to do is have sex with the lights on, and I hate it. Something like that. Yeah.

Or like, my partner jokes around too much, and I like to be more serious during sex. So I think that this is just as important as the acts that you like to perform in the bedroom is like, the energy that you like to have in the environment. And between the two of you, some questions to ask yourself around. This one is like, what kind of environment do you need to Feel desire and to enjoy yourself. Like, what do you like the space around you to feel? Like, what do you like the energy between the two of you to feel like. Like, what kind of connection do you like to experience with your partner during sex? Do you tend to like being much more emotional versus more playful? Obviously, these things are in flux as well. It's not like, I think very few people would say, like, I want serious sex every single time. But in general, you're kind of talking about enjoying the same types of vibes. And also, what another piece that fits into here is like, how do you like to set the mood for intimacy? How do you like sex to be initiated? You want to feel like, before, during, and after.

Do you want music or no music?

Something lights. No lights.

Something we have learned. Music is, like, a hugely polarizing topic in our audience. Yes.

Yeah.

Surprisingly, I never knew that until, like, a month ago. I think we did a poll about music. Like, do you like music? And it's. I think it pretty much breaks down by people who are comfortable verbally initiating sex versus people that are not or are very overly focused on sort of spontaneous initiation. Because music, there's not really a spontaneous way. Like, there's not like a clapper for the music.

You could, but I think you probably could these days.

But, like, even being like, oh, hey, Alexa, like, put on my DTF mix, you know, requires like, an acknowledgment of, stop kissing me. I'm going to say something to get the music on, because we're doing it.

We're doing it.

But, yeah, I mean, we just put her. It's like, hey, you want to have sex? All right, I'm going to put the playlist on.

Yeah, Big one. Lights are a huge one. I think a. A lot of people like to have no light, and a lot of people like to be able to see each other having sex in the bed or in the bedroom versus in more creative locations. All that stuff kind of feeds into this. So where do you think we rank on mood? The mood that we like to feel, the energy that we like to feel around sex.

All right, I think I'm good.

Okay.

I think I'm ready.

1, 2, 2, 3, 6. Oh, interesting. Our first one. That's off.

Our disagreement. Okay.

Why would you say six?

I'm saying six because I feel like we have. We generally have landed on good compromise. Like, I don't really find myself thinking about it, but, like, you know, I think that we have different preferences when it comes to light. Yeah, we have different preferences when it comes to, I think, like, locations of where to have sex. Vanessa likes more variation. I think I just kind of like the bed.

You love the bed.

I like the bed. Maybe in the future when we have a home where it's, you know, not really visible from the street, the options open up for us. Or when our, I don't know, our dog. Our dogs kind of make it annoying. I'm just like, all right, I like the bedroom. Because, like, we have a good pattern. Like, okay, we close the dogs out.

We don't like having sex in front of the dogs. No, that's another part that might feed into it. A lot of people don't care.

Yeah. But I think our dogs care.

They're weirded out. Yeah, we've had a few close encounters.

I'm weirded out too.

We're like, things are starting to get hot and heavy unexpectedly. And we're like, ugh, do we have to get up and move the dogs?

But they look. Whose tongue is that?

They look. No, we have never had. Oh, that's terrible. We've never had that happen. But a lot of people have. A lot of people have. But we have gotten some weird side eye from them. Them of like, ew, what are you doing?

I. I do have a confession to make. I. I don't know if you heard me yesterday, but we had sex and I was like going to get my sweatpants and I was like, next to the bed and Maggie jumped on the bed and licked my butt. Yeah, she did.

Where?

Just like on the cheek. Not like just. Yeah, just on the cheek.

Thank God.

I was like, oh, boy, that just happened.

Just a full on lick.

She didn't. I mean, I think she was kind of sniffing or it was like sniffing because I was like struggling with my pants and I was like, oh, my God, I am moving away.

Oh, poor Maggie. She's got a little lick of that butt cheek.

I'm not sure I would say poor Maggie. She clearly, she knew what she was getting herself into.

All right. I think, yeah, I might. Maybe I would adjust down to seven on that. I think I was thinking more about the energy between the two of us. We tend to be on the same page about when we're playful, we're playful. When we're serious, we're serious. I couldn't think of any emotional states that I like to experience that you don't or vice versa. And also, we tend to be really on the same page about the energy around initiation too, because we're both willing to be more vulnerable with Initiation mean.

If you could break this down, I mean, you can break this down. And there's sort of like the physical mood and the emotional mood, so to speak. Like, the physical mood is maybe less to do with us, but more like the room around us, the ambiance, and then the emotional mood is more like the internal stuff, the energy between us. I feel like with the energy stuff, we're probably more like a 9 or something. And then, you know, maybe a 5 with the physical mood. And then, you know, we end up somewhere in the middle.

That's fair. I agree with that. All right, let's move on to side number four. And this is one that I think will be really surprising to people because I don't think very many people consider this one.

Yeah.

And so this side is safety. More alliteration there. The six sides of sexual compatibility. Safety.

Well, good thing you didn't choose six. Side six. Safety. Side six of sexual compatibility is safety. Yeah, I've picked for the sixth side of.

Yeah. So I just don't think that we talk about safety enough when it comes to sex. And especially in relationships. Like, we do talk about safety in dating. Like, when do you feel comfortable being intimate with somebody? Are they respecting your boundaries? Are they asking for consent? We talk about it a bit more there and we still have a long ways to go. But I think especially in long term relationships, we don't really talk about it. There's sort of this assumption that, like, oh, we're having sex, so, like, there should be no boundaries.

Yeah. Or like, we are now in a committed relationship and we've had sex before, and therefore we've just given sort of blanket consent for sex in the future. I think there's a lot of confusion around that. Like, well. Well, we've done it before, so I have to be okay with it now, and that's just not the case.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is making me think about whenever we do ask us anything, Sundays on Instagram, one of the most frequently asked questions that we get is, is there anything that's off limits for the two of you? Or do you guys just do everything? And I'm like, no. Like, we still have boundaries. You know, we have things that we won't do with each other.

There's so many things that we don't do. There's probably more things that we don't do than we do. I think people just think that because we talk about sex openly that it's.

Like a free for all.

It's a total free for all.

And I'LL be in the bedroom.

It couldn't be further from that.

You think there's more things we don't do than we do do.

I think. I mean, I think with you go down the road, like, in the whole, like, kink BDSM world, there's a lot of things out there that don't even know of.

There's a lot of things out there. We'd have to make a list and see. I think we do more things than we don't do, but I guess it depend. Depends on how you define the list.

Yeah.

Anyways, so, yeah, safety is something that really gets overlooked. Like, what are your boundaries? What do you need to feel safe in the bedroom? So this one I can illustrate really well with an example of this couple that I worked with years and years ago. This was a heterosexual couple. The woman had experienced sexual abuse in the past. And so I do a lot of work with sexual abuse survivors with helping them make sense sex, feel safe and pleasurable again. So for this woman, what she really needed around sex was to go slow, to get really clear and enthusiastic consent at each individual step, to have eye contact with her partner. Like, there were just specific things that she needed to do to allow herself to feel safe. And these are really common dynamics that come up a lot with sexual abuse survivors that her partner, on the other hand, he. He could understand this rationally. But to him, the best sex, like, the sex that he wanted to have, felt, like, really animalistic, very passionate, unrestrained. So this idea of going slow or of asking for consent or checking in with each other, it just felt very antithetical to what he was looking for in the bedroom. And so it's not that either person is right or wrong. Like, it's okay for that guy to have had his specific set of interests. And, like, this is what I want during sex.

Yeah, there's plenty of people who do want that during sex.

Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I will say in general, like, I think that consent is universally important, that none of us can say, like, consent is not important. But I understand, you know, the kind of sex that this guy was looking to have. So neither one of them were wrong. It's just that what they each needed was quite incompatible. And so in the end, this couple did end up breaking up. So that's a really extreme example. I've worked with so many couples where they never ended up breaking up around this, but it was just. They needed to get this better understanding of the importance of safety in a sexual relationship.

Yeah, I mean, I Think when it comes to safety, one of the things that a lot of people don't consider, especially if you have experienced sexual abuse or some kind of sexual trauma in the past, is that it's not like a one way journey to, I'm putting this in quotes again, recovery or to being recovered from that trauma. And I think the mistake that a lot of people make is thinking, I experienced this trauma, I've been to therapy, I've worked on myself, I've processed it, I'm better. And maybe even you have sex a couple times with your partner or with a new partner and everything goes really well and you think, okay, cool, I'm better, I'm good. And then you're having sex the next time and something happens that reminds you of something and all that stuff comes up again. It's not like a one way journey where it's like, okay, one, once I am in a new relationship and we've had sex once and it was good that everything is better. Like sometimes you get reminded of something, sometimes you don't. And it's just, yeah, safety is always important. It's not this thing of like, okay, cool, I'm better, I'm past that. And it's just, it's just gone forever.

Absolutely.

Trauma sticks with us, you know, for better or for worse, it sticks with us.

Yeah. And I also want to mention that safety can come up even when there has not been an experience of sexual abuse in the past two years. So this is reminding me of the recent episode that we did about what do you do when your partner wants to have sex or you're not in the mood? Like we talked about some examples of partners guilting or pressuring the other person into having sex. That's another way that safety can come up if there's any sort of guilting going on or like, if you loved me, you would do this, or I'm going to be cranky all day if you don't give me a blowjob, that kind of stuff.

So yeah, and this can start slowly and kind of turn insidious is over time. I think like you might be, you know, your partner might initiate one day and you're not really in the mood, but like, sure, let's do it. That becomes like a rationale in the future of like, you're really not in the mood, but you're like, well last time I just did it anyway and it was fine, so I'll do that again. And like each time you're in less and less and less of the mood. Or your partner even goes, hey, but like, remember a week ago, you weren't really in the mood and we did it anyway. Like, can't we just do that again? And it can slowly morph from, like a one time decision that you made into that one time decision becoming the justification for you compromising on your own boundaries. Yeah. I think it's just important to consider what you want in terms of safety and what stuff is negotiable and what stuff isn't.

Okay, so let's give our ranking one to ten. You ready?

Okay. I gotta. Yeah. All right. All right. Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. One, two, three.

Nine.

All right.

Ten. I was like, you know, I said nine and I was like, why am I like, what is. I'm not sure what the.

What the missing piece is.

It's like people on Yelp who are like, I loved it. It was like the best meal I've ever had. Four stars. Because I don't believe in perfection.

No. I think we've done a really good job in this area. You know, we've talked a lot about boundaries and what we each need. And I don't think I've ever had had an experience of feeling unsafe with you in the bedroom.

Thanks. Me neither.

Good job, team.

Yeah.

All right, let's move on to side number five. And that is beliefs about sex. You're probably looking for a partner who shares similar values to you outside of the bedroom, but you also want to have those same kinds of values inside of the bedroom too. So this aspect of sexual compatibility includes things like your values, your moral or cultural beliefs, your needs around relationship structure, monogamy, kink, giving versus receiving, a lot of different stuff. So we're not talking about the actual things that you do in the bedroom, but your beliefs about sex, about what's right and what's wrong and what's good for you and not good for you and all of that kind of stuff. So a really clear example here would be if there's one partner who really wants monogamy. Monogamy is a value to them, it's important to them, versus another person who wants to be in an open relationship. Going to be hard to navigate if both people are, you know, deeply entrenched in what feels right for them.

Yeah, and I think what a challenging thing about this is that very often, you know, we find people who come from more strict religious backgrounds often haven't really ever thought about their own values around sex. Their values around sex are informed by their religious beliefs. But I think it can Be really empowering if you think about, hey, I can have my religious beliefs and my religious morals, and I can have my beliefs. Beliefs about sex and my morals around sex. And, you know, maybe they align in many ways, but they also don't have to entirely align. That might be a way to give yourself permission to do things in the bedroom and then not have to be worrying about, like, this feels totally misaligned with my religious beliefs.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Another example that comes to mind around this one is we've been having a lot of conversations lately at about, like, heterosexual relationships. Men who believe that they don't need to go down on their female partner where they'll say things like, oh, that's just weird, or, I'm not into that, I don't want to do that. Or even similarly, like period sex, sometimes couples are in alignment about it. Like, we both love period sex, no big deal, or we don't want to do period sex just off the table for us. But there's sometimes, you know, one partner who will say, oh, that's gross, that's weird. I don't like it. And one partner who will. Who's like, that's a normal, healthy bodily function, no big deal. So that can be, you know, stuff that comes up as well. It kind of fits into the giving versus receiving. You know, some partners are all about just receiving, don't really want to give so much. And other partners feel like there should be some equality in the bedroom.

We hear from so many couples who are like, my partner just never wants to give to me. And they immediately turn it back on themselves and go, what is wrong with me? Like, what am I doing wrong? What's wrong with my body? Body? It has nothing to do with that. This is an incompatibility of your individual beliefs about sex. One of you feels like you want it to be, you know, I give and I receive. And one of you has a more selfish view around, like, I want sex to just be about me. And yeah, maybe you can change your belief around that. Maybe you can realize, oh, this is a belief that's not really serving me. I can maybe see how I learned this from society, But I don't really want to operate that that way versus being like, yeah, I don't want to give. I'm not a giving person. And I want to find someone that is okay with that. And, you know, and that's sure. Personally, I don't like the way that sounds, but if you want to go out and do that, then go out and do that. But like be upfront about it and be like, okay, cool. I want to look for someone that this, you know, that believes in this as well and is going to align with me on that.

Yeah. Another example that comes to mind, kind of going back to the religious stuff that you were talking about about is maybe if some one person wants to save themselves till marriage and the other person doesn't believe in that, like that is probably going to lead to a lot of tension in the relationship. Or if one partner believes that sex is supposed to be for procreation only and the other partner doesn't, that's going to be another tricky situation that that couple will find themselves in as well.

Oh yeah. And there could also be beliefs about the role that masturbation plays in, in life or in long term relationship.

That's another porn.

Yeah. Yeah, those are all really big ones.

Yeah. Okay, so are you ready to give our ranking in this one?

Yeah, I think so. Okay.

1, 2, 3, 9. I went to, I went to you now. I was like, we can't be perfect. It's got to be some, some differences in, in belief.

Yeah, I, I think that we've come a long way on this. Not, not that we were that far off, but I think that maybe we would be. I would have given a couple points lower maybe early on in our relationship.

I think that we've.

I, I can't really think of anything where we have a wildly different belief or even much of a different belief.

Yeah, I can't either. But I was like, there's gotta be something. There's gotta be something. So I just went with 9.

But can't have perfection.

9.5.

No such thing as perfect.

All right, and that brings us to our final side of sexual compatibility. Side number six is effort. And we left this one for last because we truly and deeply believe that this is the most important aspect of sexual compatibility. Out of all of the different components that we've already talked about. We believe that the willingness to put effort into your sex life is the most important one. And again, like going back to that idea, when we asked other people about what does compatibility mean to you and they were sharing, you know, that myth of spontaneous, perfect, effortless sex. We just fundamentally believe that that is a myth. We believe that keeping your sex life romantic, intimate and spicy over years or your entire lifetime, that takes a lot of effort. Seriously, that's one of the core values that we are trying to spread in our work that like it does take eff. That's okay. And that that effort can be fun, too. It doesn't have to feel like this really difficult, like, oh, God, I've got to put in my work on our sex life again.

Yeah. And I might even venture a guess that the more effort you're willing to put in and especially the more compatible you're able to get on this aspect in the effort arena, so to speak. This is one where it's like, this isn't just like a natural compatibility. It's. It's like effort is something you're not born with effort or not. Like, effort is something that you have to create, you have to put in, you have to do it. So if the more compatible you can get on this one, I think the less the differences on the other ones matter.

Absolutely.

Because on those other ones, some of those are difficult to change. Like. Yeah. I mean, like, if you have a certain kink or fantasy or fetish, that's not something where you just go, okay, I don't want to have that anymore. And you're going to wake up tomorrow without any having it.

Yeah. I think the really important thing to understand about sexual compatibility is that your sexual relationship is constantly evolving. So it could have felt like you and your partner met and the sparks flew, and it was like the movies. You were totally on the same page. But if you're like the vast majority of people, like, you notice things flux and change as time goes on. We go through so many different seasons of life. There are so many changes that we experience. We. We have kids or we have pets, we switch jobs, we move, we get illnesses or injuries or things happen to our families. There's so many things that go on in our lives that can affect our sexual relationship. And so that's why we think effort is really that core component of it. If you can find a partner who is willing to work on your sex life with you, who is willing to acknowledge and respect your similarities and your differences and view yourself sex life as this project you know, that the two of you get to work on. You are going to be so much happier than making some random promise to each other that you will have sex twice a week or you will always have butt stuff. Being involved, you know, like, it's just that effort is really the core component of a great sex life. Okay, so I want to do something interesting for this ranking I want to do. Where do you think we would rank on this one? Like, 10 years ago versus right now?

I see where you're going with this. Yeah.

Okay, so 10 years ago, around the time we were getting married. How would you rank our compatibility in terms of the effort that we were putting in?

Okay, you ready? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Okay. One, two, three. Six.

Three.

Ooh. Three.

Well, so I'm saying three, because I will. I mean, I'll take accountability for my part, is that it took me a long time to really fully understand the effort and wrap my head around it and build confidence in that I could put effort in and that it was something that I needed to do. I just. It took me a long time. I felt like I banged my head against the wall for a long time trying to think of every other thing I could do to shift the focus away from the fact that I wasn't putting a lot of effort in. I wanted things to happen naturally and spontaneously, despite the fact that all the evidence in front of me showed me that that was not the case. It took me a long time to really. To really fully believe it. Maybe three is a little harsh. Maybe I should say four or five.

Yeah, I'd go down to five. I.

Maybe three would kind of be, like, my. My ranking of myself in the effort that I was putting in.

Okay, so now let's do. Where do you think we are now?

All right.

Okay. 1, 2, 3, 10, 9. Oh, you. They're gonna say 8, and you changed it.

No, I. I'm sorry. No, I was. I was like, think of it. No, I want to say nine. I want to say nine.

I want to go down to nine, too. I said 10, and I was like, oh, I don't know. That feels too high.

But there's things that we could be doing.

There are things that we could be doing. But I think we do a really good job.

I do too.

I think we've come a long way. I'm really happy. I do think there's always room for improvement, so that's why I want to go down to a nine. But I think we do a really great job.

Yes.

And I feel very loved and very cared for by you when I can see that effort that you're putting in.

Thank you. And the funny thing is that when I was in a place where I was not willing to put in the effort. Effort. Sadly, the effort that you were putting in, not only was it going unappreciated, I saw it in a different way. It was like, oh, why is she doing this? Like, it felt, like, antagonistic, almost, like, oh, she's, like, trying to piss me off, or she's trying to make me feel bad about myself because I'm not doing this. And so, yeah, that's a sad place to be. Looking back at what that was like, that was really challenging. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to see the effort that you were putting in. Thank you. And. And see it for what it really was. And that I was seeing it in really, a twisted way that probably drew us further apart than closer together.

Yeah. I mean, it. You're making me think right now of. You know, we get a lot of dms from people. Typically, it's the woman in a heterosexual relationship where she'll say, I really want to sign up for one of your courses, or, I even bought your guide. But, like. Like, I can't talk to my partner about it, or he's going to get offended or hurt or he doesn't want to do it with me. And it just makes me think of how often couples are on different timelines about putting effort into their sex lives.

Yeah. I mean, at least one person almost always has to be the one to start before the other.

Yeah. And so that's always what I send back is like, look, it's normal for people to be on different timelines. And I know from personal experience, I know how hard it is to be that person who's taking that first step and seeing your partner not respond in the way that you want them to. And so I hope that our story can just give you hope that even if right now it feels like, you know, maybe you're even like, hey, babe, will you listen to this podcast episode with me? And your partner's like, no, I don't want to listen to a podcast episode. Like, who are these people? You know, I know how heartbreaking that can feel and scary and frustrating, and you're just like, dude, just get on the same page. Come on. I'm already the one who found this account, and I'm following it, and I already listen to it. Can't you just give me one little ounce? So I get that. And again, I just hope that our story can give some hope to people that, like, you can come back around and get onto the same page. It might happen a little slower than you wanted it to, but your partner can be willing to put in that same level of effort that you are.

And when they do, it's really worth it and really great. Yes. All right, and on that note, let's get into a couple listener questions.

All right?

If you've never been overly sexual together, is it possible to create sexual energy or tension? Can I feel a spark with my husband that I never have before?

I have an opinion about this that I think a lot of people do not share, especially a lot of other people in the, like, sex and relationship space. But I very firmly believe that chemistry is creating. Created. I do believe that between two people there are different levels of potential. So if you pluck one random person and one other random person off of the street and put them together, they're going to have a different potential than two other randomly picked people. Right. So I think there's different potential. But I do think that compatibility is something that we create. I don't think it's this terrible sign if you've never felt that spark with your partner or if you did feel it and then it disappeared. Like, I think the compatibility is all always something that can be worked on.

And on the flip side, if you are rating your sexual compatibility or sexual spark on a scale of 1 to 10, let's say, and you know, you meet someone on the first date, it's a 10. I mean, you kind of only have downward to go as well. I mean, I think that that's the thing that a lot of people get into is that it's like, if it is total fireworks at the very beginning, then oftentimes you kind of settle into more of a routine. And then you. You're like, oh, God, what ha, where did it go? Versus you want to start somewhere. Like, you know, you're probably not going to go on very many dates if there is zero sexual connection or zero fireworks. Yeah, I mean, definitely, as long as you have a baseline, you can absolutely work on stuff. But it requires communication, it requires trying new things. It requires so many things. It requires effort.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, next question is, is it normal to go through phases of being attracted to and then unattracted to your partner? Partner. And similarly, can you weave in and out of sexual compatibility?

Absolutely. And I think this is another thing that, you know, it gets people freaked out and gets them scared. But there are just so many different dynamics that affect attraction and affect compatibility. And it's really easy for us to get knocked off of center. It's normal to go through these stages in anything in life. Like, seriously, can you think of anything else in your life that's just a complete, complete, steady constant, never changes? I don't think so. So attraction and compatibility are the same sort of thing. You will notice yourself falling out of that. And that's just a sign of like, okay, let's go back to putting more effort into this.

Yeah, I was, I was gonna say, I think it's very Often easy to lose attraction or to feel less attracted when there's a gross mismatch in effort going on, Whether that's effort around the relationship, around sex, around household chores, around exercise, around life in general.

Yeah, I mean, I think that we, like. Attraction is another funny thing. We tend to look at it in such a, like, black or white way. Like, am I attracted or not attracted to my partner? But it is something that shifts a lot, and, like, I can even frame it just in the positive way. You can do something or say something to me, and I'm like, oh, my God, he is so attractive right now. And it's like, nothing has physically changed about you from one moment to the next.

That's what you think.

Oh, you're some shapeshifter.

Who knows? If I were, I wouldn't tell you.

The other hex that we're setting.

Yeah, I put a hex on you. That's what really happened. The hex is kicking in.

Like, oh, damn, he's looking good. The hex is hitting strong. No, but, like, yeah, so it can flex in a positive way, and it can flex in a negative way, too. Like, sometimes if I'm angry at you or if I'm hangry or, like, if something, you know, something else is going on, it's like, who's that guy?

You smell horrible and you're ugly.

I don't ever say that to you?

No, just. Just the things smell bad. Vanessa's an emotional smell.

I am an emotional smeller. If I'm upset, things smell really bad. I don't know how that works. There's some. Some nerves that have misfired in my brain.

I've never experienced it that.

Really?

Yeah, I don't think so. I mean.

All right, we need people to reach.

Out on what it is.

If you have more sensitive smell when you get cranky, please DM us on Instagram.

All right, last question is, what if you feel sexually incompatible but you adore your spouse? Emotional chemistry is there, but the sexual chemistry is not.

So I definitely would recommend therapy in this instance. Like, it may be a situation where. Where maybe you're falling into some of these myths about compatibility and you don't realize that it is something that can be worked on. There are different aspects of it to take a look at, so maybe that shifts a little bit. But let's say that you get to a place where you're just like, no, it's just a hard. No, There is no compatibility here.

And I think the important thing here is that this is something You've been in communication about. Like you guys are talking about this. Like you're both feeling like the sexual chemistry is not there. You're both explicitly talking about, about that. You're both explicitly putting in effort and you're finding, huh, we are both not feeling. I think that's the important thing. I think that a lot of people get to this point and go, oh God, I, I could never talk about this because I don't want to admit to my partner that I'm not sexually attracted to them because that would be so hurtful for them and it's gonna blow everything up. So I'm just gonna hold it inside and hold it inside and hold it inside side. But then like really what you're doing the same thing. Like it's obvious that something is off between you two. Like you're not happy, but you can't point to what it is. So why not just be honest about it? Give yourselves a chance to work on it.

Yeah. So, okay, but even if you do get to this place of just feeling like there is no compatibility, there is no hope for compatibility, I still would recommend therapy. Like, this is a really painful situation to be in and you should have have some support and structure for talking about this with your partner. And it's really going to depend on how important sex is to each of you. You know, there are some people who are like, yeah, we're really incompatible. And you know what? Like we just honestly don't care. That's okay. Like, nobody's saying that you have to have a wild, hot, crazy sex life in any particular relationship.

This is way, way, way more common outside of heterosexual relationships where there's like, we have a huge like emotional bond or you know, we're great companions and we live together, we're married, but we see other people because we just don't feel sexually attracted to each other. That's way, way, way more common outside of the heterosexual monogamous world.

Yeah, and I think that that's a really valid relationship model to have. You know, if you want to have a companionate marriage or relationship and explore other creative ways of experienc sexuality outside of the relationship, that is definitely a possibility. I mean, I just think, you know, if you have this incredible, beautiful connection with somebody, but one piece of it is missing. Like, I mean, I can go on a whole diatribe about this, but like, we put so much pressure on modern relationships to fulfill each and every need that we have. Our friendship and our romance and our sex and our partnership. Like there's so much. And I just think, I think, you know, in some cases it can really be a shame to throw away a beautiful relationship just because one aspect of it isn't there. If there are other ways to explore getting satisfaction and getting your needs met, you know, why not? So that's another episode for another day.

But you gotta talk about it and you gotta put effort into that too.

All right, so if you are wanting to work on the sexual compatibility in your relationship, if you're getting, getting inspired and thinking, hey, you know what, I want to put that effort in, yeah.

I want an A for effort, then.

Definitely any of our courses would be a great fit for you. But in particular, we wanted to call out two of our master classes. They're really inexpensive, so they are a great first step to get you going. One is called bring your sex life back to life and the other one is called how to know what you want in the bedroom because that is definitely a big piece of compatibility, right? Like even understanding what the heck it is that we are looking for in the first place. So we will put links to check those both out in the show notes.

Well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about distractions during sex and how to manage them.

Oh yes. If you have ever found yourself thinking about your to do list during sex, then you are gonna wanna tune in. Also, babe.

Yes.

I have no noticed that while we have been recording this podcast that some people have bought some of our guides and products. So you want to go set another hex?

Yeah, let's. Let's go hex it up, girl.

Gonna go hex it up. And we will catch you guys next week.