Episode 51: The Art of Flirting (In a Long Term Relationship)

Amazing how those little things that maybe we think are not really much of an effort or not that meaningful can actually go so much further. It's like really a cheat code.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Hey, babe.

Hey.

Are your feet sore? No, I'm just wondering if it hurt when you fell out of heaven.

Oh, now that I think about it, yeah, they're real sore.

Are you tired?

I'm really tired because you've been running.

Through my mind all day.

Oh. Maybe that's why my feet are sore.

Are you related to Jean Claude Van Damme?

Yeah, I am, actually.

Cuz. Jean Claude Van Damme. You're sexy.

Wow. The first two. The first two were. Were okay. I guess that last one, though. Got to work on that one a little bit.

Something's wrong with my eyes because I can't take them off you.

Wow. Did you have your own special private prep session for this podcast outside of the one that we had together?

I'm feeling a little off today. But you turned me back on.

Wow. Wow.

I could keep going all day.

Wow. I got nothing. You know, I guess flirting just must not be for me because I can't think of any lines. Any pickup lines.

If you haven't guessed, today we are talking about flirting with your partner. And no, it does not have to look like cheesy pickup jokes. Although I really have a lot more of them that I could go through. But I will spare you because you're looking very embarrassed right now.

I'm good. I'm good. That was. It's fun. It's fun to be surprised. Being surprised in the long term relationship, it's one of the things that helps make you love someone more. You never know what they're going to pull out. What cheesy line? I mean, I should not be surprised given your dad's sense of humor.

Oh, yeah, the.

The defective gene. What your mom likes to call the defective humor gene in his line of relative, the family.

Oh, yeah. He's got classic dad humor. But I mean, yeah, you know, we wanted to talk about flirting because I think that this is something that really goes by the wayside in long term relationships that we really stop flirting with each other. So I'm actually curious to hear from you. What did like. Do you remember anything about what flirting felt like at the beginning of our relations?

Huh. That's a good question. Yeah, I mean we, obviously we must have flirted. I don't remember that much about it. I mean we, we were pretty hot and heavy from the moment that we met. Just being honest, there wasn't a lot of courtship per se. Like we were, it was on. We were pretty sold on each other from day one. You know, I don't think we really had the like dtr, the defining the relationship talk for those of you who don't know what that means for a couple weeks. But like, even in those couple of weeks there was like we, we weren't giving each other enough space to even think about dating other people.

Yeah.

So yeah, obviously we flirted, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think we sent a lot of messages back and forth. It was probably more like sexual innuendo perhaps.

I think our flirting has always been very funny, like very joking. It hasn't been serious. A little wittier than Jean Claude Van Damme. Terrible pickup line. But yeah, I think we've always like joked around and played around with each other and that's kind of been our little brand of flirting.

Yeah.

Teasing sometimes too.

Yeah, I think so. I think so.

Like super serious, like seductive flirting.

Yeah, it's definitely been jokey and perhaps a bit teasy.

And what do you think our relationship would feel like if we didn't flirt with each other?

Like if we didn't ever flirt or like if that kind of died off over time?

If it died off over time, I.

Think that would be hard. I think it would feel really sad. It would feel like this key element, key aspect of our relationship just slowly disappeared or kind of shriveled up over.

Shrivel.

Shrivel up and died. I was like, that's getting kind of dark. But I think it would, I think it would feel really stinky sad. It would. Yeah. It would feel like our relationship would feel a lot more formal. I think without it. We would feel more like. I mean, the first thing that came to mind was like, I feel like we're more roommates than like trying to be too respectful of each other.

You know, I don't think I've ever phrased it this way before, but I think flirting is really a way that we play with each other. And so that's one of the main points that we want to make in today's episode, that there are so many different ways that you can flirt, so many different flavors that your flirting can take on. So today, we want to give you tons of different ideas, like specific ways to flirt with your partner, different kinds of tones that you can take on with each other. Because we really think it's just so important for couples to have that element of, like, playfulness and attraction and, you know, just that flirtatious energy can really bring so much into a relationship.

And if you're feeling like, oh, this just isn't me, I'm not a flirt. Flirting is not my thing, we might try to convince you otherwise.

Yeah, we have a lot of different ideas. We actually crowdsourced from our Instagram audience, so we got ideas from people of all different walks of life, all different personality types. So we feel pretty confident that you're gonna find at least one flirting technique in this episode that is going to bring a little spark back into your relationship.

But before we do that, we are going to read you this week's review of the week.

Look at that. What a good transition. You remembered it straight into it.

I did. I'm killing it.

Babe, you're playing with yourself now.

Yeah, I'm flirting with me. This week literally changed my life. I assume they mean this podcast. This podcast literally changed my life. I cannot say enough amazing things about vnx. That's us.

By the way, thank you for all the clarifications today. You know, we would be lost without you.

Dtr, vnx. This podcast, this podcast. You know, sometimes context is important. All right. They have quite literally changed my life. I've been following on Instagram and listening to the podcast since January. It's now April. Oh, thanks. Now, that was them, not me. I just want to clarify. It is also now April. That is true. When we are recording this, it's probably going to be May when this podcast is released, but it is April right now. They want me to know that, and I want to y' all to know that. And I've had more sexy time with my husband in four months than I did all of last calendar year.

Woo. Damn.

Vanessa and Xander made me realize that I was taking myself way too seriously in the bedroom. I've now been more adventurous being playful and just enjoying myself in my 30s. Here for it. There were little hand clap emojis in.

There and I very tiny little clap.

Well, I did do tiny little claps because one. I know it's going to be really loud in the mic if I do loud ones. Also, that's what our podcast editor looks for when we're trying to edit things out is a little clap. So sorry, Art, if I gave you a little scare, but it continues. I've told all my girlfriends and we now have a podcast club.

Oh, my God.

Where we have a group text about the guides, recent pod episodes, and just sex in general. They are making sex mainstream and I just cannot explain the gratitude I have for them.

Oh, my God. A podcast club is the cutest freaking thing ever.

Yeah.

And then immediately shout out to the podcast club.

Yeah, Seriously, shout out to the podcast.

You guys are awesome.

Yeah. If you're listening, start a podcast club with your friend.

Oh, my God.

To listen to our podcast.

I love it.

Or listen to any podcast, but we hope you would consider including ours in your podcast club. And then, of course, we can't leave out the taco eggplant and squirt emoji. Oh, thanks, Vanessa and Xander.

Wow. Thank you so much for this delightful review. That really warmed my heart. It made me smile. I love the podcast club. And seriously, your reviews mean so much to the podcast. It is the best way for us to grow and reach new people and make new podcast clubs. So we do this giveaway every week where if you leave us a review in Apple podcasts every week, we pick a winner to be featured. And if you are the winner, you can DM us on Instagram at Vanessa Marin Therapy. Ask us a question and we will give you a free mini, mini personalized coaching session as our way of saying thank you so much for taking the time to leave a review.

Be like this person. Share the podcast with your friends. That goes such a long way to helping us as well and just normalizing the fact that, hey, it's cool to talk about this stuff.

We love it.

Because when we talk about it, it gets better.

All right, so let's get back into the flirting content. So I think first up, we kind of want to talk about, like, why would you want to flirt with your partner? Why should you flirt with your partner? Because I think a lot of us have this idea that that's something like it for dating or for trying to impress somebody or it's just cheesy pickup lines that you say at a bar when you're trying to get somebody's number.

I can also imagine how from, like a pretty early age, you know, you start watching, like teen movies when you are a teen and you see popular, cool, smooth kids being all Flirty. And you just, like, don't identify with that. Or maybe you don't aspire to be like that. I could imagine how really quickly you could. Very, very quickly. I'm just repeating my word. How very quickly you could just build this identity of that is not me. And, you know, I don't know. I'm speaking from my own experience. I definitely saw those teen movies and kind of wanted to aspire to that secretly when I was 13, 14, but 15, so I didn't. Yeah, I didn't write myself off as. No, flirting is not for me. But I could for sure see how you kind of see that and you're like, fuck this shit. That's not me.

Wow. When we met, I was the one who approached Xander and he told me after the fact that that was his move was to never approach a woman, let her approach him. So that's how conf. He wasn't, his flirting game. Fortunately, I was brave enough to go talk to you. Otherwise none of this would be happening right now.

No, I mean, who knows? I would have maybe if, you know, you hadn't. I was. I was busy. I was DJing. I had a job to do. I was for sure gonna make a move. Vanessa just beat me to it.

Yeah, like we said at the beginning, you know, we do think that flirting is a really important aspect to a relationship. Even once you've been together for years or even decades. Like, it's really what you're. Keeps that spark alive and keeps the two of you feeling, like, excited in each other and interested in each other and attracted to each other. So we asked Instagram to tell us a little bit about flirting. And 51% of people who responded to our poll said that they do not flirt with their long term partner. But 80% of people wished that their partner would flirt with them. So it's something that a lot of people are wanting to feel more of in their relationships. And when we posted these polls, we just got tons of DMS from people saying, like, flirting. What's flirting? You know, like, like in a joke.

Like, obviously they know what it is, but it's like, well, it's. Oh, it's like, oh, where's the clitoris?

Yeah, I think this feeling of like, I haven't done that in so long, I don't even know what it is anymore. Yeah, but I. You know, a lot of us are also complaining that, like, I hate feeling like roommates with my partner and I hate feeling like there's no spark. And flirting is a really simple and Straightforward way to bring back some of that energy.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So I mean, flirting helps your partner feel loved and important. Like when you're taking that time, making that effort to flirt with them, like, it can feel really sweet to receive that. It can be a really fun tease. I do think that's a lot of the flirting that we did at the beginning of our relationship was being kind of like, oh, we're not gonna. You're not gonna get to see me until the weekend. You know, that kind of thing. Like building tension and anticipation, you know, creating those, like those butterflies, that sense of electricity. And even for those with responsive sex drive types, flirting can give you a stimuli to respond to. It can be something that gets your responsive sex drive type going. So if you have no idea what I'm talking about, if you don't know what your sex drive type is, we are going to put a link to that in the show notes. It's a free guide. It's so important for you to understand what your sex drive type is, so make sure to check that out.

So we also asked our audience, do you think you're good at flirting? And 61% of people said no. So that may have something to do with the fact that half of people don't flirt. And a lot of, you know, 80% of people wish their partner flirted more with them. Six out of 10 people don't even categorize themselves as good at it. Then that might be one reason why.

Well, that does mean that there are 10% of people who think that they're bad at flirting, but they're still doing it. And you know what way.

Good for you.

Proud of you guys.

Yeah. So seriously. Seriously. So why do people think that they're not good at flirting? I think there are for sure a lot of misconceptions out there about what flirting is. Like we alluded to at the very beginning of the episode, a lot of people just hear the word flirt and they think of pickup lines. Or like, in my mind, I think of like, oh, going out to a bar and using some dumb pickup line. I think of that show, the pickup artist. Was that like on VH1 or something? Yeah, with mystery. Wow. I mean, if you think about it really a messed up show in terms of how it, like putting women in.

So that they like, interested in you.

It. It was really horrible. But they were huge on one liners and, and I think that that's what a lot of people think. Or I mean, in this day and age, it's probably like Sending that perfect little first liner in, you know, like on a dating app, to get someone's attention. Yeah. If that's what your idea of flirting is, then of course, when you get into a long term relationship, you're like, oh, God, I don't want to have to do that. But what we'll get to is there's a lot more ways to flirt than just that. And the other thing is that not everyone has to flirt in the same way. So yeah, there are some people that really like cheesy lines. You know, maybe like Vanessa give a bunch of silly jokes as their way of flirting. But the reality is that there's a whole lot of different ways to flirt. There's not a one size fits all. It's not like the way you see it in romance movies, et cetera, et cetera.

So if you're one of those 61% of people who feel like you're not very good at flirting, we're gonna give you some of our favorite flirting tips and ideas and some of the ideas that we heard from our Instagram audience too.

And it might not even be a situation where it's like, you need to, like, use our examples and learn how to do it better. It may be that something you actually already feel like you're good at, you realize, oh, actually this is flirting. I just need to put a little spin on this. Or I just need to incorporate this into my relationship. I feel like that would be a great outcome. I think when we go through the examples, you know, a lot of people may be like, oh, you know what? I actually do feel comfortable with that. I don't need to call myself bad at flirting.

Yeah. So we have three broad categories of flirting that we're gonna break down for you. The first one is communication. So a lot of people mentioned that they love leaving notes for each or like receiving notes from their partner. So they can be like sexy notes, sweet notes, just little like thinking of you type of notes. But for a lot of people, that felt very fun.

Oh yeah. Vanessa did this to me once, sort of. She found she got these stickers that just had like, I can't even remember what they are.

They were those, you know, when you donate somewhere, they send you back like pre addressed address stickers. And then they had like this whole other sheet of cute little animal puns.

Yeah. So she put these stickers all over my things. Like there's one on the back of my Kindle. There's one like on my electric shaver. And like in a couple she, I Think she put them on my desk or something.

All over the place.

Yeah, she hid them. And it was. It was really. It seems really silly when you say it, but it was like I kept finding them and it was. I knew that she had gone to the effort. She was thinking of me. She thought it would be nice to do something for me. She put these things all over the place. I found them over time, and every time I saw them, I thought of Vanessa. I thought of the thought that went into that. And it feels good. You know, there's one that's still on my Kindle and there's one that's on. I think the shaver ones have. You're a hoot.

Yeah.

The little owl, that's the one I see most regularly.

I mean, and that was something that was so simple and easy. Like, you know, I was about to throw those away, and then I was like, oh, these are kind of cute and funny. And so I think I spent a minute, you know, running around the house and, like, popping them onto things. But it ended up being. Yeah. Something that you kept discovering for a long time to come.

Amazing how those little things that maybe we think are not really much of an effort or not that meaningful can actually go so much further. It's like, really a cheat code, like relationship cheat code type thing.

Another thing that came up in this category was sexting. This was actually the most popular answer that came up on Instagram when we asked, like, how do you like to be flirted with? What are your favorite ways to be flirted with? So if you feel like you're not very good at sexting, but you want to be, then we are going to put a link to our dirty talk guide in the show notes. These are specific, flirty, sexy, really sexy examples that you can use to, like, talk dirty in person or to sext with your partner. Because again, this was the most popular answer that we got when we asked, what's your favorite way to be flirted with? So if you want to improve your sexting and your dirty talk techniques, definitely make sure to check out that guide. Another thing that came up a lot was innuendo or suggestive comments.

We are very guilty of this one.

We do this one constantly. We find ways to, like, even something that is so not sexy will, like, turn it around. Be like, oh, yeah, well, I'm gonna da da da da to you tonight.

I'm gonna blank your blank.

Yeah. And it'll be something dumb like squeeze your ketchup. You know, it's like, it's not sexy. Like, no one would ever say something like that.

It's not objectively sexy, is what you're saying.

Clarification. Yes. It's not objectively sexy. It's not like these, you know, super seductive, like. Like some of the dirty talk examples.

You wouldn't find it in a love letter is what you said.

There we go. But for us, like, it feels really fun. It feels really playful. And even though it's something that's, like, not explicitly sexy, it still feels like it keeps that spark going between the two of us because it's like, it's like keeping the conversation top of mind. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna squeeze your catch up later tonight. It's like, we know what we're hinting at. We're being silly about it, but it's like.

And sometimes, sometimes it comes out really funny and we have a really good laugh, and everyone loves a great, uncontrollable laugh. I'm sure you've heard Vanessa's a number of times if you listen to this podcast more than just this episode, especially at the beginning.

But yeah, I mean, it's just for us, like, that's one of our favorite ways of flirting with each other is just making little suggestive comments and innuendos and stuff like that. Another one in this category is teasing, like we mentioned earlier, kind of taunting each other a little bit. Could also be like reminiscing about when you met the early days of your relationship. I mean, even, you know, you just heard Xander and I do this, like, a couple of minutes ago, talking about the first night that we met and me going to hit on him. And, like, you know, we've told the story of how we met a million times, but it still feels really fun to talk about it and to be, like, playful and flirty with each other. Of like, oh, yeah, I saw you from the, you know, other side of the room.

Yeah. I was like, oh, I would have talked to you.

Yeah. So it still feels like, you know, you bring back that energy by remembering those early days together. So reminiscing is just such a fun thing to do with each other.

We also have inside or private jokes. We've got a number of these. I'm struggling to think of one off the top.

And they're private.

That's true. Thank God. Okay. Sorry, guys. They are private. They are very inside. You know, I've. Hopefully one day I'll be a part of an inside joke.

I was just thinking about that. My clothes. Scott from the office. But No, I love inside jokes and relationships because it makes it feel like you have this secret language between the two of you. I mean, literally, you know, it's an inside joke. Nobody else knows what you're talking about, but it makes it feel like you're in this little club, you know, you've.

Got this secret society. Anyone? Anyone? Secret society.

Secret society. Oh, what was that?

Come on.

Is it Cruel Intentions? Yeah, there we go.

I was gonna say DM us, if you know what that's from. Are you giving. Are we giving away our age right now?

Ye.

Yeah. I'm, like, talking about picking up people in bars and Cruel Intentions. Hey, I know the kids are washing the office, even though that was from our time, but. Yeah, yeah. The pickup artist. Wow.

Throwback.

Yeah. Don't. You know what? If you.

Golden age of VH1.

It was. It was. But do not go back and watch the pickup artist, because it does not age.

None of them.

Do not. It is. There is nothing, okay. About this.

Dating shows like Rock of Love, Tila Tequila, the one with Flavor Flav.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God, so many.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember Joe Millionaire. That was the OG I remember before there was even a concept of reality tv, it was, like, shocking. Like, oh, my God, they are going to put these people together and they're going to tell them that this guy's a millionaire, even though we know he's not. Now there's, like, nothing shocking about. Oh, yeah, we're. We brought 20 people together on a huge lie.

Quite the tangent. Wow. Well, thanks for hanging in there with us. So we're gonna move into flirting category number two, which is compliments. So I think compliments can be really fun when they're delivered out of the blue. Like when you just get this sense that your partner, they can't even keep it inside themselves. They just have to give you a compliment like they're in that moment.

Yeah. We're talking mostly about physical compliments, right? I mean, I guess any kind of compliment works here, but often more physical compliments.

So we got here are a couple of things that people told us on Instagram. One person wrote, I love being told that I'm sexy or look good doing regular, everyday tasks, not just when I dress up.

Someone else said, I love when I'm complicated.

Complicated.

Oh, my God. I love when I'm complimented. I love it when I come when I'm complicated, especially with what I'm about to read. I love when I'm complimented. It boosts my confidence and reassures me of the attraction. There we go. Wow, that was a tongue twister.

That was.

And if you want to up level your compliments, compliment your partner in front of other people, because then it's like a double whammy. Like, you feel good about the compliment you received, and it feels good, like having that happen in front of other people. It's sort of like a double each other up. Yeah. Double validation.

Another option is to playfully cat call or whistle at your partner when they're looking good. Xander and I kind of have a little bit of an unspoken rule that whenever one person's naked, like, we make some sort of comment about it so that we feel like nakedness doesn't just become like that. We're never noticing anymore, never paying attention. Because, like. Because I think that's one of the things, one of those tiny things in long term relationships that feels so crappy when you're like, I am fully naked in front of my partner and they're not even noticing.

You know, it's really. It's really funny that you said that because as you said that, I was like, oh, my God, I totally forgot that we had that arrangement. And then I was like, oh, my God, have I been a horrible partner? Have I not been doing it? And I was just kind of like, playing the tape back in my mind, and I'm like, no, I've made such a habit of that now that probably, like, 99% of the time I see you naked, I say something.

Yeah, you do.

And I feel good. And so that's like, testament to how you can make this stuff habitual in a really good way. Like, you don't even need to think about it. I think some of us think, oh, that's just not my personality. It comes so unnaturally to me. But, like, this is something that we talked about. We started doing it, reminding each other to do it on a more daily basis, and now it's like, I don't even think about it. And I forgot that we even had the conversation that, like, we made an arrangement about that. It's just a totally ingrained part of our way of life now.

Yeah, it's very sweet. And, yeah, it makes me feel like you're still attracted to me. I still get your attention. You still want me, even though you know you've seen me naked every day. Well, you look great.

You look great naked. Look, and I'm complimenting you in front of thousands of people right now. Vanessa looks great naked.

Thank you. I'm blushing a little.

Okay, so, yeah, start a podcast. So here's what you do, guys. You start a podcast, you grow it so you have thousands of listeners, and then you tell everyone how great your wife looks naked. It's easy.

There's Xander's cheat code.

Yeah, this is my cheat. This has been. I've finally completed a plan. I've had years in the making.

All right, well, if you are struggling with compliments because they don't come naturally to everybody, and if you don't naturally compliment each other a lot in a relationship, it can be. It can take a little bit of effort to, like, get into that habit. So we have yet another resource for you that we will put in the show notes. Those show notes are going to be popping.

Oh, this is going to be a jam packed, jam packed episode. You guys are getting a lot of good stuff.

We are going to link you a free guide that we have about the 20 most popular compliments. These were voted on by our Instagram audience. They're divided into physical and non physical compliments. Totally free. So go check that out. All right. And our third and final flirting category, we decided to call it physical. So it includes things like eye contact. It could even be a wink.

Yeah. Someone from Instagram said, when we're in public or in a large group and we make eye contact and my man winks at me, I melt.

The most popular answer that we got on Instagram in this category was just touching each other more often. I think in so many relationships, we just don't touch each other that often. And touch is another one of those incredibly fundamental ways that we keep that spark going, that energy, that chemistry, that electricity.

Yeah. Touch can be flirty and playful and maybe even a little teasing. And so that all fits under that flirting umbrella.

Yeah. So we actually asked people to share, like, the specific kinds of touches that they really liked. And so here's what we got. Butt and boob grabs, but avoid honking.

Oh, yes.

People don't like the boob honk.

Nope, Pretty much no one. Maybe. Like, we've actually pulled this on Instagram and there's like, they're a very loud minority of people who love the boob honk boob owners. I'm saying women or boob other boob havers. Very few. But, you know, so maybe if you really would want to be able to honk boobs, please ask beforehand.

Yeah. Someone from Instagram sent us a DM that just said in all caps, just grab my ass. So a lot of people really like a little ass. Smack, pinch, little grab. So again, like Xander saying Something to talk about with your partner. The specifics, but these were some of the most popular ones.

Yeah, it could also just be hugs or, you know, arms wrapped around your partner from behind, A little surprise hug. I love that. Just thinking about that gets me a little wistful. It's my wistful voice. It actually just reminds me of the times when that is one of the very favorite things of mine that Vanessa does is when she just comes up behind me, puts her arms around me when I'm not expecting it. I love it.

I need to take a picture of your face right now. This needs to be the COVID for the episode. Very happy. He loves a good hug. A lot of people also said kissing, so we heard, like, short, sweet kisses, like, on the forehead. We heard long, passionate kisses too.

I mean, yeah, you could kind of get flirty with it. Like, you're just saying goodbye, and then what? Bam. Slip them some tongue.

Oh, okay.

And then say, oh, you want some more? You're gonna have to wait till I get home. Oh.

We've got a little physical and a little communication combo flirt. Combo flirt?

Yeah.

Standard cheat code. The combo flirt.

All right, we're gonna gamify this.

Here's some other answers. People said, like, soft touches in sensitive places. I want to know what sensitive places are.

You're really getting a sneak peek into the life of Vanessa. I mean, I feel like we. We kind of. We do this on the podcast. Like, honestly, you guys do hear us flirt every single podcast. But we do dial it back a little bit, you know, in public and in the podcast. So, you know, you're getting a sneak peek into what it is. Like, you know, when we are off the mic here.

Okay. Actually, the most popular response on Instagram was touches in passing. So if you're, like, just walking by each other, you know that there's just. You reach out and make some sort of little touch with your partner. I think that.

Brush your arm along theirs or something.

Yeah, just a little. A little glancing touch, I think can feel really special. It's just one of those tiny little moments where it's like you're acknowledging each other's presence. It's. I think, you know, very often in relationships, it's like, we're so busy, we're doing so many things. We're always multitasking and coordinating and all this kind of stuff that, like, it can feel like you're just existing in the same space, but operating completely independently of each other. And I think these tiny moments, like what? You know what little millisecond does it take to do this? What tiny iota of effort does it take? But it's like just reaching out and touching your partner. This way of acknowledging, like, I see you there. You're not just operating by yourself in space here.

Oh, in space.

I don't know where that came from. Okay. Another response was brushing their hair back, putting your arm around your partner, rubbing.

Their arms, putting your hand on their thigh, or holding hands while driving. And back rubs.

I love a good back.

Everybody loves a good back rub. Almost everybody. Before I say I shouldn't just say every. I should never say everybody.

Yeah, everybody doesn't. Like, you can't say that of anything.

Many people like a back rub.

There we go. Another category of flirting that fell into the physical realm was trying to look your best for your partner. So just to be clear, we're not saying that you should be at a hundred percent effort all of the time. Like, it is really nice to be comfy and cozy with your partner. Like, as we are recording this, I have no makeup on. I have yoga pants and, like, an old shirt on. I think I put on deodorant. Not positive. You know, so it's like, we're not saying you have to constantly be gussied up for each other, but sometimes it is really nice to, like, get all cleaned up. Maybe you're going out for a nice date night. Maybe it's just, like, totally random. You know what? I feel like feeling my best today, and I'm going to do all the things. So this obviously looks very different for every person, but maybe the things that, for you feel really fun to do, or like doing your hair or your makeup or putting on cute underwear or just fresh underwear or like an outfit that you feel really confident in, your favorite perfume or essential oil, like, whatever it is for you, there is no right or wrong, but it's like kind of like the ways that you would get ready for a date in the beginning stages of your relationship, and you could just, you know, you'd open the door and see that partner there, and. And you would just feel like, oh, look how good you look. Like, I could tell you, you cleaned up. Yeah, you cleaned up nice.

Yeah. I think one goes really well in tandem with the one earlier that we talked about, which was just giving physical compliments regardless of how cleaned up or not the partner is. Because I think where this one starts to get problematic is if you hear, hey, you should clean up for your partner sometimes. And your partner also never compliments you. Like, unless you're super cleaned up, then that sets up a really crappy dynamic where you feel like, oh, the only way that you're deserving of compliments or the only way your partner is attracted to. Attracted to you is if you put on the makeup and you get all gussied up and do your hair and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, if you can have a conversation about, like, hey, like, I want us to be complimenting each other all the time, and you get into that habit, then. Then it's like when you decide, hey, I want to look good for my partner. It doesn't feel like this thing where you're like, am I only doing this because they're gonna. So, like, so I can get compliments or my. Like, I want them to be attracted to me, so I have to do this. Let's try to cut that. That chord.

Actually, there's like a memory that just popped in my head as you were saying that there was a day maybe last week or the week before that I felt like a total mess. Like, I was just in grungy clothes and hadn't showered and the whole thing. And you said something like, you have a really beautiful. Like your eyes look really beautiful or like you have a really beautiful look in your eyes right now. Something like that. And it just made me feel really special and really seen that, like, here I could be, like, not feeling like, my best, not feeling particularly attractive, but you're still seeing something in me that you're attracted to and that you took that time to call out, and that was really sweet.

Well, you are really special.

Thank you. That's why stop flirting with me. We gotta get through this episode, man.

All right, let's finish this up, babe. We gotta get outta here.

I also just wanted to call out. You know, we were talking about getting ready for each other, like, the ways that you went on dates. Having date nights is like, also just can be another way to flirt too. And we even talk about this in episode 8, 18, how to get that new relationship energy back. So that's another great episode to listen to as soon as we're done with this one to, like, bring back some of that. That great energy that you used to have.

And speaking of date nights, if you want to kick it up a notch, you could also add a little role play element to it. You could act like you. Not only are you going out on a date, but you're going out on a first date. Act like you're meeting for the very first time. This is a. Actually, I don't Know if I can call you out right here. This is perhaps a fantasy that Vanessa has that we have never fulfilled. I've never fulfilled it for her.

This is a good. Okay, this is a good one for us to be talking about, because the point that we wanted to make sure to make in this episode is that we just shared with you a couple dozen different flirting ideas, and there are going to be plenty of them that do not sound good to you and that you're not going to want to do, and that's fine. Like we said at the beginning, like, there is no one size fits all flirting approach. Like, we hope that you found at least a couple that you like or are curious about. But this is a perfect example because, yeah, I have brought up, like, oh, I think it would be super sexy if we, like, pretended that we didn't know each other and met at a bar and you hit on me and you were not into it. So. And that was okay. Like, this wasn't a, you know, such a central fantasy of mine that I was so sad we could never do it. But, like, it just didn't feel like a flirty, fun thing to you. And that's okay. You get to have that.

Oh, well, maybe I could reconsider.

Only if you dress up, like, mystery. Like, with a weird, fluffy top hat, a boa, Some guyliner. No, that, like, big skull ring.

No, I'll dress up. I'll dress up. Like, you know, I'll do Phil for Modern Family, because this is where. This is where Clive Bixby. Yeah, Clive Bixby. Clive Bixby.

That's.

This is, I think, where the fantasy came from.

It did not. It really did not.

I think that's when we started talking about. It was that episode of Modern Family where they do that.

It just gave me an excuse to talk about it. I was like, oh, that sounds kind of fun. Anyways, so we hope that you got a lot of fun flirting ideas from this podcast. We hope that it helped you feel inspired to bring a little bit of that flirting energy back into your relationship. And honestly, you know, we hear from a lot of people who say, like, it's just so sweet to hear you and Xander. Like, you sound so in love, and it sounds like you have so much, much fun with each other, and, like, the flirting between us is a huge part of what creates that energy.

So if you want, you know, the secret now.

Yeah. If you want to have that same kind of energy, you can absolutely create that in your relationship. It's going to look and feel A little bit different in yours, but that's the beauty of all of us, like, being human and unique. So we wanted to issue a little challenge to you, which is to try, like, one new flirting idea every day for a week with your partner and see how this goes. Or at least, you know, every other day or just one a week. Whatever feels doable to you. But try out a couple of different flirting ideas and let us know how it goes for you.

All right, well, let's get into a couple listener questions then. We had so many good questions about flirting, so thank you for that, first of all, to all you listeners. But, yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna do these rapid fires so we can cover a bunch of them.

Yeah, there were so many interesting ones.

All right, number one, how do I ask my partner to flirt with me?

Okay, so this is the beauty of this podcast, is that you get to show these episodes to your partner and say, like, hey, look at this episode that came out today of this podcast. I follow. It's all about how to flirt with your partner. I've never really thought about it before, but all the things that they were saying and sharing felt so fun to me. I would love it if we did this together and then listen to the episode together with your partner and you can have conversations as we share each individual idea and say, like, ooh, would you like that one? Would you like this one? So that's just a great way to, like, introduce the topic to your partner. You're not having to say to your partner, like, you never flirt with me. You must not love me. It's just like, hey, this was the episode today, and it got me thinking.

Yeah. I think listening to this together is so key because often when we make a request like that, like, hey, I'd love you to flirt with me more. That can feel just really big and open ended to your partner, especially if they don't identify as a flirter. Like, they just hear that go, oh, my God. I don't know. Like, I don't know how to do that. That sounds really scary. I don't want to do pickup lines. And then you're just. They shut down.

Yeah.

And that's the end of the conversation. But it doesn't have to be because you can listen to the whole episode where we kind of debunk all these reasons that people don't want to flirt and then give a ton of ideas.

Yeah.

All right, next question. How to make flirting natural and not feel forced. Well, take some notes from what Vanessa and I Did this episode? No. What do you think, babe?

So, I mean, if you've listened to a few episodes of our podcast, you know that natural is one of our least favorite words, because there is nothing natural about sex. Like, sex in and of itself is a very natural act, but everything about it is unnatural.

I mean, I think it's. It's only natural if you do it completely instinctually. And we live in a society and we have a way of life that doesn't really facilitate the instinctual type of sex that maybe early humans. Yeah, you're going deep on that.

But I think it's important for us to, like, take that pressure off of ourselves. Like the idea that everything has to be natural. It leads to sexual perfectionism, and it often paralyzes us, making us feel like, oh, I can't do that. I can't try that, because it's not going to feel natural or it's going to feel forced. Anytime you try anything new, it does not feel natural and it does feel forced.

Yeah, but eventually. Yeah, but eventually with practice and repetition, it's going to become a habit, and then it will actually feel more natural. Hate to use that word, but it'll come more easily. It'll come more easily. Just like the example we gave earlier about. Giving. Yeah, about the, you know, the nude compliments.

Xander's nude compliments.

Xander's naked compliments.

Anyways, what I would say for this one too is, like, lean into the awkwardness. You could. Okay, so I actually looked up cheesy pickup lines because I wanted to jog my memory. Of course you did a couple of them. The falling from the sky and running through my head all day. I already knew those. But I. I did find the Jean Claude Van Damme one on the Internet. Honestly, this would be a really fun exercise to do with your partner is like, just go back and forth with each other, reading these cheesy pickup lines to each other, do the cheesiest, most awkward thing, and that'll get you guys laughing and like, wow, these are ridiculous. And just take away some of that pressure and that intensity.

Yeah. All right, next question. Is flirting with someone outside of your relationship cheating? Heavy, heavy hitting question. This is a really hard one.

It's really very hard. I don't know if I can do a rapid fire answer.

Well, because what is. What even is the definition of flirting? Yeah, how do you. Who decides what is flirting?

Yeah, I mean, there, you know, there can be super suggestive or sexual, like, you know, flirting, and then there can just be, like, flirting that's just barely more than friendly, you know, so it's like, there's such a wide range of things. So I think that this is a good conversation for all couples to have. Of, like, what amount of flirting feels good to you and not good to you? Because there are some people who love watching their partner flirt with other people or, like, hearing about it. Okay, so actually, just the other day, maybe, like, two weeks ago, I went and picked up takeout from, like, for dinner. And the guy at the front was, like, this young, cute guy, and he was kind of flirting with me about, like, there were some cookies that I wanted to, like, try out. And I flirted back with him, like, a little bit, and I got a free cookie, and I ate that cookie.

And it was good. So I won. I won that one.

Still got it. I got a free three dollar cookie.

No one's giving me free cookies, sadly. If you see me out in the world, give me a cookie. Please make me feel good about myself.

Okay. But, like, I came home and I told you, I was like, oh, I flirted my way into free cookie. And, like, you know, it was like this fun, playful thing between the two of us. It didn't, you know, you didn't get jealous or, like, oh, that doesn't. That feels disrespectful, you know, so for a totally different couple, that same scenario could have happened and they would have been really upset. Like, that doesn't feel respectful to me. I wish that you hadn't done that. You know, so it's. It's so dependent on the relationship, and neither one is right or wrong. Like, I'm not saying that I was, you know, just because for Xander and I, this was something that felt playful and fun. Like, I'm not saying that's objectively right, just to be clear. So it's a conversation. Conversation that everybody should have. But I think for me, one of the biggest variables that comes up are, like, what are your intentions with the flirting?

Yeah.

So, like, with the cookie example, like, there was not a single cell in my body that was like, maybe I'm gonna go home with this restaurant guy tonight. Or, like, see what other kind of cookies he has.

Well, it would have been a totally different story if he was like, oh, I'm actually taking a break. Like, let's go sit down and. And talk about cookies in more detail now. Like, I mean, is becoming really less and less sexy, like, the more I play it out. But, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, well, it's One thing that it was a tiny interaction or there was already an expectation that there was going to be no. You know, you're never going to see this person again. And there's no expectation.

Oh, no. It's a local restaurant.

It is a local restaurant. We live in a really small town.

Right now, and we really like it.

We really like it. And I really like that cookie. I'm gonna go talk to this guy because I want more cookies.

You can flirt with him, too.

I know. If I get. If I get one of those cookies out of it, I'll flirt with him.

I'm getting so hungry for those cookies now.

It was good.

What were we saying? I've completely.

Well, it's just the con, the contact. I mean, the context. The other thing I was gonna say about that. I know we said rapid fire, but I think this is a good one where the context matters. Intentions and context. Because it's like, I think for you and me, we almost feel more comfortable, sort of. I'm putting flirting in quotes here because it maybe arguably is or isn't flirting, but almost like when we are with people that we are more comfortable with people that we know, maybe other couples that we know, we might flirt with each other in sort of like a joking way. You know, like someone says something and they're sort of like there's like, an accidental sexual innuendo or something. It feels safe. Like we know each other, we trust each other. We know that we know who's going home with who at the end of the night versus if you just met someone random out in public and all, and it's Vanessa, me, and some random guy that we start talking to, and then she starts flirting with him in front of me. Like, that would just feel different than, like, meeting a friend who we know and trust and there's something, you know, a little innuendo or something.

Yeah. So we obviously have a lot to say about this one. It is not an easy answer. Maybe this is even a whole podcast I episode here. But the bottom line is, is it's got to be a conversation that a couple has to piece out. Like, what feels over the line to you and what feels like just a little bit more than being friendly to another person.

All right, well, speaking of over the line, should flirting with your partner only be done in private to avoid making other people uncomfortable?

Oh, another really good one.

And, well, I guess if that's the case, then don't listen to this podcast because you're gonna be. We're gonna make a lot of People really uncomfortable, babe.

So for this one, I think it really depends on the degree of flirting. Like, in general, we keep saying this flirting that's barely more than being friendly. I think a lot of flirting is totally fine to do in front of other people. And honestly, I think it sets a great example of. I mean, how often is it that we're hanging out in groups with other couples, and it's like the couples are just putting each other down and, like, oh, we got in the biggest fight. Or like, Dave is so annoying. I can't believe he did this. It just turns into this big gripe fest of complaining about, like, ugh, you know, and it's so uncomfortable for everybody else, but we all kind of engage in it. So instead, what if we set these good examples of, like, showing each other, like, that relationships can be fun and playful, and we can still flirt with each other and be attracted to each other. So I think that flirting in front of other people is harmless and even beneficial. I would definitely draw the line around, like, super sexual flirting of, like, you know, I'm gonna go home and get you. I can't even.

I'm already feeling uncomfortable. I'm already feeling uncomfortable with.

I wouldn't say anything, like, explicitly sexual in front of other people unless you have the kind of friendship where, like, you guys are all comfortable doing that. But, like, I think a little bit of playful, like, look how pretty his eyes are. Like, so handsome. You know, that's fine.

All things in moderation. I'm. I'm already thinking of the example of, like, someone might hear us. Oh, we're saying it's great to compliment your partner in front of other people. And I can think of examples being in group settings where one person is just, like, really over the top, like, constantly complimenting their partner. And it's like, that feels weird. It's like, okay, we crossed a line of, like, you're. You're going out of your way to do this thing. And so, you know, with all of these, I think it's. Yeah. If you are just constantly flirting, like, every time you're speaking in a group setting, it's this really flirty thing, then. Yeah, that might make other people uncomfortable. It kind of just dominates the conversation or dominates the interaction.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, last question. How do I ask my partner to flirt with me differently or in a different way that I like?

Okay, so I think this one is another great example of, like, listen to this episode with your partner. I think Xander said it at the beginning of the episode of like, it's really hard to give your partner a very general piece of feedback. Like, I just want you to be more flirty. Okay. What does that mean? Often? And what do I do? Like it. You know, it does. It doesn't feel great to hear something like that. So if you can listen to this episode together with them and point out, like, oh, I would love it if you did more of those glancing touches as you walk by me. Or like, ooh, definitely do not do the boob hawk honk. Boob hawk boob honk. That's not a favorite one of mine. Being able to point out the specific examples that you like, I think is really beneficial. So that'll let your partner know the things that they. They can do that you're going to enjoy.

Yeah. I mean, and then also, once you have done that, you know, obviously respond really positively when they do the thing that you want. You know, I think that so often we just think it's. We just have to give feedback that's super negative criticism, like, stop doing this, stop doing that. Stop doing that. Yeah, if they're doing something that's really bothering you or upsetting you or making you actively not feel good, then, yeah, talk about that and say, hey, it doesn't. When. When you do this, then I feel this, and that doesn't feel good. But in general, let's try to focus on what is it that you do want. Try to positively reinforce that. And hopefully the things that you don't like as much or that you're just neutral on kind of go by the waysides your partner realizes, oh, I can get way more bang for my buck in this area. Oh, bang. Speaking of which.

All right, well, that wraps up our episode on flirting. This was a really fun episode.

It was.

I hope that you guys enjoyed listening to it. So, like we said, we've got a ton of goodies for you in the show notes. We have that free sex drive types guide and the compliments guide. We have our dirty talk guide with literally hundreds of examples of sexy things to say to each other. And we'll put the link to that other podcast episode that we discussed as well. So definitely make sure to check out those show notes.

Get them all. Get them all. All right.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. You get it all.

You get it all.

Yeah, I might. I just might after this episode. All right, well, on that note, guys, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about how men can take control in the bedroom, presumably through other ways other than just flirting.

I can't wait.

All right.