Episode 7: What Makes a Great Kiss? And What to Do if You Don’t Like the Way Your Partner Kisses

When was the last time you had a truly amazing kiss? Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with 20 years.

Of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

So make sure to subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today, we are talking all about kissing. So I think a lot of us have this feeling of, like, missing how much we used to love kissing. Like, most people have a memory of being a teenager and just feeling like kissing was the most exciting thing in the world. You could just do it for hours and hours and hours, and it really.

Might have been the most exciting thing in the world back then when that was, you know, the. The extent of your sexual experience or very early on in your sexual experience, where it's just like, oh, this is exciting. It's a new thing as adults.

I think a lot of us really miss those days when kissing was so entertaining. It felt like so much fun. You know, a lot of couples really miss those days when kissing just felt so entertaining, something you could do for hours. I think the reality is that most couples these days, especially ones in long relationships, don't really kiss that much or kissing has turned into, like, little pecs. Our story, our love story actually started with a pretty epic makeout session.

I thought you were going to say a pretty epic kiss. I was like, well, I guess you could call a long makeup session one kiss.

It was a makeout session for sure. If you don't know our story, we met at a Christmas party at Xander's house, bachelor pad he was living at with, like, five guys at the time. Xander was deejaying the party and. And I snuck behind the DJ booth, told him I liked all the music he was playing, and we eventually wound our way over to the dance floor where we made out for hours until the party ended and everyone went home. And then we went into your bedroom and continued making out for hours.

Yep, we did. On my childhood Dino blanket.

I forgot about that. It's now our dog blanket.

Yeah, it's more appropriate that Winston and Maggie sleep on that now. So the really funny thing about that story, early earlier that day, I had gone to a store and purchased, for the first time in my life, like, real linens so you saw the dino blanket, but there was a real duvet and with a duvet cover, real sheets. I honestly, I don't remember what I was using in my bed before that. But it was probably like old ass sheets from, from like leftovers from my parents.

I don't even want to know. And we made out on them. We made out. I think in the end it 6 hours just making out. You walked me home afterwards. I mean, that was one of the most exciting nights of my life, like just making out. But when was the last time that we made out for six hours?

That moment.

This has never been repeated again. I don't think we've even gotten close to like an hour.

Yeah. So in case you're listening to this podcast and worrying that we are going to convince you that you should want to make out for six hours straight, don't worry, that's not really the goal of this week's episode.

But we do want to talk about kissing, all the ins and outs of kissing. Because I think it's really interesting. You know, you hear a lot of conversations about like sex positions and oral sex techniques, but it's really rare for us to talk about kissing in detail. And that's what we're going to do today. Like exactly how to kiss. What are some next level kissing techniques? And then doing all this kissing troubleshooting. Like, what if you don't like the way that your partner kisses? What if there's too much tongue, it's too fast? What even describes a good kiss and a bad kiss? So we're really going to get into all that nitty gritty today.

This is actually a fairly new podcast idea for us. We got DMs from people occasionally about like, you know, how do I tell my partner that, like, I don't love the way he kisses or like I want to change this or that. It just people, people think, you know, it seems like it's such a silly thing to want to nitpick or a silly thing to need to work on. Like, you know, we're, we're grown ass people and like we shouldn't have to talk about kissing. But the reality is it's one of those things that we, most people in a relationship are doing on a daily basis. So why not aim to have really excellent kisses every day?

Okay, well, speaking of daily basis, this is actually something that we wanted to investigate because we've kind of assumed kissing, it's such a simple thing. Couples do it every day.

No one needs help with it.

Yeah. So we Started asking some questions on Instagram. Instagram about kissing. So first question that we asked is, do you kiss hello and goodbye consistently? Like, we thought that this was going to be a pretty standard thing. We're not even talking about making out. It's just like little hellos and goodbyes. But only 71% of couples said that they do. So that was almost 30% that don't consistently say hello and goodbye. Then we asked, hello, goodbye.

Yeah, maybe they say, we didn't ask. You say hello and goodbye, but no kiss.

Then we also asked, do you like making out with tongue? And again, this was kind of another thing that we had sort of assumed, yeah, everybody likes kissing. And we found that only 68 of people do. 31% don't.

That's, like one third of people don't like kissing with tongue. Would basically making out.

Yeah. And then finally we asked, do you like how your partner kisses? 77% said yes and 23% said no, which, again, was a pretty high number for us. That's, you know, one in every four couples is struggling with not enjoying the way they kiss and something that is so central to intimacy. That really can be a big struggle if you find yourself not wanting to kiss your partner because you don't like the way they kiss.

Yeah, that's. That sounds like a big challenge. It sounds like a really big challenge to intimacy, to getting turned on, to really craving, continuing to do this thing that's going to get you to feel closer to each other.

All right, so before we dig into all the nitty gritty about kissing, we first want to read you our review of the week.

A must listen for all couples. I heard Vanessa on another podcast and immediately followed her on Instagram. It was everything I needed to keep my marriage hot. I've been so pumped for this podcast to launch and immediately binge listen to all three episodes. Fire, Fire, Fire Emoji.

Oh, wow. Thank you for reading out the emojis.

It's not done. So grateful for everything these two are doing to normalize, healthy and strengthen relationships.

Oh, well, thank you so much for leaving that review. If you want to be featured as a review of the week, totally anonymous, please leave us a review. It really, really helps the podcast grow. It's basically the only way the podcast can grow. So we're really relying on you guys, and it brings a little tear to our heart every time. To our heart. There we go. All right. And there's my next thing that I missed. My epic stuff. It brings a tear to our eye.

I'm Just envisioning. Wait, hold on. Let's. Let's. Let's walk this. Let's talk this through a little. Let's walk through this. Let's talk it through. What is a tear to your heart? I'm worried if your heart is.

I was trying to say that we are very touched whenever we get reviews, but I started thinking tear to the eye, and then I started thinking about heart. I don't know. I just. I missed. And I missed my. I cannot talk.

It's happening. She has made it through six episodes relatively unscathed.

I messed that up. There we go. All right.

Wow. What I want to know, are there any doctors out there who can tell us if your heart starts perspiring? Water dripping off of your heart? Is that a medical problem?

All right, moving on. So I will be fully honest. When we were first talking about this episode, I was like, God, can we really, like, what kind of tips can we give about how to kiss? And to check myself for a moment and be like, you know what? The point of our podcast is that we really want to break down things that I think a lot of us assume that we should already know how to do.

Yeah, we really want to question everything. Like, there's. There's nothing that is off limits in terms of, like, re examining all this stuff that's really based. And maybe we'll do how to hug. If you have hugging problems. If you have a problem with hugging. I'm guessing probably we won't get enough traction on that one, but, you know, I would consider it.

Yeah, we want to ask the questions that people haven't been asking. We want to dig into the details, really get into that nitty gritty of a lot of topics that so many of us have just assumed we should know how to do and maybe have some shame about. Gosh, like, I feel like I should know how to kiss. I've been doing this for 20 years, 30 years. Shouldn't I be better at this? So we're gonna get really specific about how to kiss. Exactly how to kiss. And it was interesting for us thinking about, okay, how do we break this down? How do we describe it? What are the specific tips? It made us think so much more about kissing than we ever have before, and we ended up having some really great conversations out of it. Tip number one, be gentle and start slow.

No one loves going straight for the tongue, going right into that, like, vigorous kissing.

We'll get later into the podcast people's definitions of what makes a bad kiss. We also ask people what makes a great kiss, and this is one of the most consistent things people mentioned, is we really like starting slow. So you can start with more like closed mouth pecs where there's no tongue involved. You know, you're not, like, jumping right into it, but it's just these really slow, sweet, soft kisses. So this can be a great way to get started.

Yeah, a little more than your typical hello or goodbye kiss. Yeah, not quite yearful. Tongue in mouth. Snog.

Oh, a snog. All right, shout out.

Shout out for all the Brits listening.

All right, the next tip that we have for you is to be present. So we're going with something that has nothing to do with your lips right now, but more about, like, the emotional presence that you bring into that experience with your partner. So again, we ask people on Instagram, you know, what makes a great kiss or what makes a great kisser. And a lot of people said, you know, I can feel when that person is really there in that moment with me. And it didn't matter if it was a random hookup or their partner of 20 years. You know, we can feel like, feel our partner being there with us. And I think that's what really makes a great kiss. And you feel like you're two people sharing this moment together.

Yeah, I think that almost that really goes along with the first tip about be gentle and start slow. Because if you. If you're viewing kissing or making out as, like, just how you get from zero to starting to have sex, like, you are probably not very present in that kiss. Like, you're thinking, oh, this is just a means to an end. Like, try to just be present and focus on, hey, I'm kissing for the sake of kissing. I'm not focused on what comes next or where we need to get in order for me to get what I want or for me to give my partner what I think they want.

A lot of people also mentioned that they like to try to find a natural rhythm between partners. And this is one of those things that can be a little bit hard to describe in words because it's something that you have to feel into in the moment. Like, we have different kissing chemistry with different people, and you'll find that the two of you have a natural rhythm. So again, a lot of people like starting off very slow and, like, very, very slowly and gradually building up to more speed, more intensity. But a lot of people mention this idea of, you know, don't try to force anything. So this sort of ties into the next tip that we wanted to share, which is to pay attention to your partner's cues. So somebody on Instagram said, you know, I like somebody who's paying attention to me and isn't just pushing ahead. So rather than trying to make the kiss go somewhere, especially trying to make it go towards sex. We'll come back to that in a minute. So part of finding that natural rhythm with another person is really paying attention to their cues. So there's so much body language that you can pick up on. Like, is your partner leaning in towards you? Are they moving their hands or their arms around your body? Like, what kind of speed are they going towards? And this is a surprisingly complex thing to do too, because you're trying to balance, like, paying attention to your partner's cues and figuring out, like, what's feeling good to you, but also, like, really wanting to be present in the moment. Going back to the second tip that we named, and so I think a nice way to do this is to really focus on the sensation that you're feeling in your lips. Our lips are actually very, very sensitive. They can pick up on a lot of nuance. And so if you pay attention to what does it really feel like to be kissing this person, that can be a nice way to balance being in the moment, but also finding that natural rhythm with them. So we talked about starting off kind of with these slow closed mouth kisses, more like, you know, like really soft pecs. At a certain point, you're going to start transitioning to opening your lips, but not really using tongue yet. So on Instagram, a lot of people said that they really enjoyed these kinds of kisses where you're intertwining your lips with each other, but you're not getting to the tongue stage yet. So you're really playing around just with the lips. So you can imagine like, you know, one of your lips is going between your partner's lips and you can switch off as well. You know, kind of first your top lip and then it's your bottom lip. There can be a lot of nice ways that you can play without having any tongue at all.

Yeah, that's a. That's a nice little description. That's something that's hard to. It's so hard about that so much. But yeah, that is something. That's something that happens. And yeah, there's not really even a word for those type of kisses. It's like pecs or closed mouth kisses. We need that little. That middle ground, the third type of kiss.

You know what we. So we also pulled some bad kissing advice that we're going to share with you in a minute, but one of the tips was to try a lip lock. We'll read it to you later. We just saw the way that they phrased it was really funny. But maybe that was what they're referring to. A lip lock.

Yeah, it could be. I think that that's just not a great name, because lip lock just doesn't sound like a positive thing at all. Like, I'm. Like I'm stuck in your lips. Let me out. Where's the key to the lip lock?

All right, so after playing around with your lips for a little bit and again, just exploring how much sensitivity you have in your lips, then you want to start using some tongue. And again, this is another thing. It was so funny for us to try to figure out. How do we describe this? How do we describe what you're doing with your tongue? So a lot of people said that you've got to find this balance between some contact between your tongues, but not too much contact. So I think the best way to describe it is that your tongues are making contact with each other. They're touching each other, gliding against each other, but then pulling away. So it's not just constant. Your mouths are open, your tongues are mashed against each other, and maybe that's a tongue lock. You're not. You're never coming apart. So you can start with just the tip of your tongue at first, where you guys are opening your mouths a little wider and you're meeting between your mouths and just touching, grazing the tips of your tongue with each other. That can be a nice way to start introducing some tongue action.

And as you're using your tongue, try to mostly just be using or interacting tongues in that area right between your two mouths. Like, don't shove your tongue into your partner's mouth. Hopefully your partner's not shoving their tongue into your mouth. If so, I totally understand why kissing may not be so nice for you. Another kind of yardstick, I guess, is like, if you're bumping teeth or gums, like, trying to get tongues to touch, that's usually a sign that you're going a little too far. Like, there's a nice, nice middle space in your mouth when you know, when you're opening your mouth to be able to touch tongues, and that's a really good place to start, and then kind of see where the energy takes you.

So, yeah, you're going to want to continue making tongue contact and making it for slightly longer stretches of time. But I think most people like there to Be some sort of break in between the tongue contact where then you go back to just kissing with your lips for a second, then you bring the tongue back in again as opposed to your tongues make contact and then they're just constantly in contact after that.

Yeah, that's just like overstimulation.

So you want to continue gradually increasing the intensity, gradually increasing the pace of it. But in general, most people really like kisses that stay slow. Like, that was one of the most frequent things that came up in the what makes a good kiss responses. People just loved really slow kissing. I think there's something about kissing that it can just feel like time sort of stops. And this is cheesy, but, like, that's definitely how I felt when we first kissed that. That fateful night, even though it was six hours time basically did stop. It really felt like, you know, the rest of the world kind of melted away and it was just you and me sharing that kiss. And so I think that when you have that slow sensuality to it, that's really what can make such a great kiss.

And I think the other important point here is, like, don't get focused on, like, don't like, visualize a graph in your head of like, int. Intensity versus time or something like that. Like, the intensity of the kiss should really mirror, like, the intensity of how you're feeling of, like, how turned on you are. Like, you know, if this is just. If this make. If this is just purely some kissing that is, you know, not going to lead to sex, then probably just some very gentle, mellow kisses. But, you know, if you're kind of like getting your engines revved up, then, like, then, yeah, feel free to increase the intensity of your tongues and like, really just let the kiss. Like, let the kiss reflect how you're feeling.

All right, so now let's get into some next level tips. So those are the basics, you know, if you. We were trying to describe how to kiss to an alien or, you know, someone who's never done it before, but now let's talk about how you can make the kisses take them to the next level. So first thing that you want to focus on is your lip pressure. A lot of people spoke about this on Instagram. Some people said, you know, I don't like lips that are too floppy. It's like fish lips kissing a dead fish kind of thing.

You like about 20 lip psi.

Oh, my God.

Get, get your. Get your lip pressure meters out, kids.

But you also don't want to have your lips pursed so hard that like, that it Feels hard. Xander and I are making ridiculous faces at each other right now, trying to mimic the lip pressure thing. But you gotta find this, like, just right kind of of thing. Not too floppy, not too hard. You want to imagine your lips being soft and supple.

You also want to switch the lips that you're focusing on. So in that kind of that. That middle kiss or lip lock or whatever we want to call it, you know, don't. Is. You know, don't always do the same lip. Like, don't always stay on the bottom. Switch between the top and the bottom. Switch it up. I think switch it up is generally a good tip across the board with kissing. I think that's probably one of the main complaints that a lot of people have is like, oh, it's always exactly the same. We're just, like, sitting there, and, like, the tongues are just going back and forth, and that's all we do.

In a similar vein, you can also switch which side your head is tilted towards. So, Xander, I gotta call you out for a second here.

I know. I know it's coming.

Xander has a. Has a specific way that he likes to kiss in a specific position. He likes to have his head to a certain angle. But it's fun to switch it up, babe.

I think it may be the way that we kind of are, like, lying in the bed sometimes where.

Yeah, you have a specific way that you like to kiss.

We're going to have to debrief on this, like, in bed tonight, maybe play around with some alternatives. If I could get back at you for a second, though. We had a little issue early on in our relationship similar to switching sides that your heads are tilted towards. If you're making out on the bed, you can also switch who's on top, who's on the bottom. Are you on your. And somebody here.

I like to be on the bottom.

Somebody here really likes to be on the bottom. Does not like to be on top. I always enjoy someone who likes to kind of flip over and get on top occasionally. And so I would. I would kind of give her little cues, like, start shifting my weight towards one side, thinking, oh, she's gonna flip. And Vanessa would just be like, weigh yourself down into the bed.

It was not that traumatic. But when I'm having a good makeout session, sex is different. But when I'm having a good makeout session, I. There's something that I like about just having the pressure of your body on top of me.

I wonder if that has to do with the misconception you had about what sex was, maybe from a young age. Why don't you tell the people?

When I was very young, I thought that what sex was, it was heterosexual in my head, but I thought that sex was when a woman laid on her back, a man laid on top of her, and they took a nap together. So I guess that position. I don't know, that just seared in my head. Now I like it for making out, but I've gotten better.

Maybe you gotta do a little work on breaking down that myth in your mind.

All right, our next tip is that you can try nibbling on the lips as well. This was an example of one of the conversations that we got into when we were planning this episode. That you can gently suck their lip. This usually works best with the lower lip, but you can do with the top lip, too. But you can suck their lip kind of very, very gently into your mouth and very gently, like, nibble on it with your teeth. So this is not a chomp here. This is a nibble. Very gentle nibble. And I mentioned the idea of nibbling on the lips, and Xander said, ugh, who. Who does that? That's so weird. I was like, I love that. I really like that.

All right, so our next Next level tip, and this is a good one, especially if you need to increase the variety in your arsenal, is nibbling on.

The lips arsenal sounds a little violent.

Kissing arsenal.

Come at me with your weapons.

Kill him with the kissing.

Oh, okay. So this was a perfect example of how this initiated some really interesting conversations between Xander and I. Oh, yeah. We were talking about nibbling, and Xander was like, I don't know if we should mention that one. And I said, no, I actually really enjoy a little. Little lip nibble. And I hadn't really thought about the fact that we haven't done it in a while.

Have you ever nibbled on my lips? I am like. I'm just trying to, like, scour my memory. One, have my lips ever been nibbled on? And two, do I enjoy it? So we are gonna have to do some research. Yeah.

Should we pause our recording right now and go check it out? Or even worse, should we make everyone listen to our kissing?

Neither.

Maybe.

Maybe tonight. Maybe tonight we will play around with the head. Head positioning, head side body positioning, body.

Positioning and some lip.

We're gonna figure out this body head positioning nonsense and also nibble on each other's lips. It's gonna be a great night.

All right, our next tip is to try running your tongue along your partner's lips.

Yeah. This is another just good kind of variety thing. This is probably not like, you're not going to be doing this for. For hours, probably not for minutes. Just like, a little break in the kissing.

And try something else to do for this one is kind of pull your mouths apart. So don't try to do it in the middle of already having your tongue kissing going on, but pull apart a little bit and then take your tongue and run it alongside the inner part of your partner's top lip. You can try the bottom lip as well, but I tend to think that the top lip works best. And you want to find a medium pressure with your tongue here. So not super pointy, so your partner doesn't feel like you're jabbing at their lips with your tongue. But also not, like, really loose and flat. Like just kind of a medium pressure, as if you were. I just licked my finger. I was trying to describe it. I'm like, how do I describe, like, a medium pressure? Maybe like as if you were licking an ice cream cone kind of thing.

I feel like people all have very different ice cream techniques.

A medium pressure. But again, like, this one works because our lips are so sensitive. And so this is just a different kind of sensation on your partner's lips. And you're kind of going to like, a little bit inside the lips, too. So there's a lot of really great little nerve endings there that you can hit with your tongue.

Another thing is do not forget about your hands. So just like a little hand at the back of your partner's head on their neck can feel really amazing. Or holding or kind of grabbing gently on the face. I think that can be really sexy.

Yeah. We just recorded a video about steamy scenes from the Bachelor a few weeks ago.

That's exactly what I was thinking about Gizno.

And so we put in a clip of Ari. It was kind of a very old season, but Ari having a kiss where he pushed the woman gently, like, you know, gentle push against the wall. And he had her face in his hands and was, like, just kissing her very passionately. And I think that is a move that so many women really, really love.

Moving your hands around, playing around with someone's hair, the scratching the back of their head, gently moving your hands around, like, and try to pick up on, you know, the body language of your partner. Like, it's pretty easy to tell when they're really enjoying something. Like, I know if I just kind of scratch the back of Vanessa's neck, or I kind of, like, use my. My thumb and my Forefinger to kind of give us a light massage around the back of her neck. She kind of, like, tenses up in a really good way.

Yeah.

And, you know, I. I can tell that she loves it, so that's something that I do a lot.

Yeah. I mean, the. The base of the neck is so sensitive. The hair is really sensitive, especially in people who have longer hair. So if you kind of. Kind of rake your fingers through their hair, caress their neck, the tops of their shoulders, that can all feel amazing. And you can move your hand all over their body too. Like down there, you know, down their arms, over their back. That can feel really nice. And again, gently cradling their head in your hands, like, one hand on either side of their face can feel so nice.

Yeah. And I think it's important to recognize that everyone's body is different. Everyone has different experiences. So. So for those of you out there who have had short hair for most of your lives, like, you may not be very sensitive right on the back of your head where you have a lot of really short hair. But, you know, like, I came to realize that Vanessa loves that. And, you know, having that longer hair, it feels really good to be touched right there. So, you know, and just. Just remember that, you know, what your partner loves. They may love you touching a certain area where when they touch that area on you, it doesn't. You don't really have a lot of nerve endings or it doesn't feel that great. So just remembering that everyone's different and what worked for someone may not work for your current partner and vice versa.

So, I mean, I think, yeah, for all the tips that we're mentioning here, these next level tips, and for the kind of more beginner 101 tips, these are all great conversations to initiate with your partners. So you can go to them and say, hey, how do you feel about lip nibbles? Or what level of pressure with the lips do you like to have? So each little point that we're mentioning here can be a conversation with your partner. And you can even explore and experiment together and say, hey, let's play around with different levels of pressure. Let's play around with trying this tongue running over the lips thing and see if we like it.

Yeah, this could be a super fun night or series of nights where you're just like, hey, we're gonna. We're gonna take an hour and go through this list and try out these things and see what we like and see if we can become kissing masters.

Oh, kissing masters. Yeah, we'll come back to this tip, I kind of skipped ahead a little bit. I got excited, but.

All right, so next is kiss other places, too, not just the ones we've talked about already. Kissing is not just for the lips. So you can kiss the neck, you can kiss the ears, you can kiss the cheek, the penis. Yeah. You can kiss literally all over the body. But I think neck and ears are two really good ones that are quite sensitive. Neck, like, definitely classic One, you know, don't leave a hickey unless you are, you know, wanting winter.

You can wear turtlenecks.

But. Yeah, I mean, I think that there's this funny thing where some of us maybe are kind of scared to kiss the neck because, like, early, you know, middle school, high school, everyone's like, oh, my God, did you give so and so a hickey?

It's actually really hard to leave a hickey.

Yeah. It's kind of funny, though, because, like, I feel like. Like at a younger age, that was something that happened pretty commonly.

Yeah. Because we really, like, sucked on each other's necks. I don't. I don't understand why it's. It's not an enjoyable thing now, but be more delicate. The neck is very sensitive, too. So I think wetter kisses tend to work well on the neck or licking up and down your partner's neck. Licking up into the ear and all around the ear. I mean, the cure is super sensitive, too. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, the ear is great for nibbling as well.

Oh, bringing back the nibbles.

Yeah.

Take earlobe into your mouth, give that a little nibble. But you can kind of go around a lot in the ear. Just don't jab your tongue into the ear. I feel like everybody's had an experience with somebody jabbing their tongue into your ear. Like, what are you doing?

I don't think anyone's done that to me, really. Or else I've blocked it out of my. It was so traumatic. I just blocked it out. No.

All right, so that's another thing that we'll try. When we finish recording, I'll jab my tongue into your ear and see if you like it.

I am no longer looking forward to tonight. All right.

Another thing that you can play around with is eye contact. So this is a controversial one. I think most people tend to prefer that you don't make eye contact during kissing because your faces are so close up against each other. Like, if you open your eyes and they open their eyes. First of all, you guys look like Cyclopses because you're just too close. It like, makes one eye, but it's also this sort of like, you're. Like, you're there. Gotcha. Yeah. So I think what can work is if you just take little peeks at each other. So it's not like you have your eyes open the entire time you're staring at each other. Another bachelor reference there. The most recent bachelor, Matt James, I think they called him out for, like, always having his eyes just bug eyes open during kisses. But instead, if you just do, like, kind of little peeks at each other and, you know, give each other a little smile or something, that can be cute, but for the most part, like, keep your eyes closed. Closed.

Another tip which is kind of similar to the eye contact one, I think this. This one is very underrated is breathing together. I think this can be a really hot thing to do is, like, you know, if you kind of sync up your breathing and are breathing together when your faces, your mouths are really close to each other, not like when your lips are interlocked, like, breathing into each other's mouths, but kind of now that.

You like baby birding breath.

Well, so, I mean, reality is I am now, like, picturing this as I'm describing it. And the reality is you're basically breathing into each other's faces, like, you know, an inch away from each other. So, like, if that idea grosses you out, maybe this isn't gonna sound super attractive. But, you know, I think when you're really in the thick of it, like in the heat of the moment, really passionate, you're not like, oh, God, that breath. Like, you know, just.

We'll talk about breath.

We'll talk about breath later. But, yeah, just kind of breathing in and out together. It can be a little break that you're taking, and you're just kind of showing each other, like, how, you know, how into it you are.

Well, that leads us straight into our next tip, which is to take little breaks. So this is all about, you know, switching things up a little bit and not just getting into this really, you know, monotonous kissing experience. But if you take little breaks, you could just, like, take a deep breath together. It could be nice to just press your foreheads against each other for a second, or you can take a break and kiss a different part of their body. But I think if you just add these little breaks into a makeout session, it can just make it feel even more sensual and romantic.

The little kissing flourishes. Yeah. And then also switching up the rhythm, I think really, like, the rhythm of the intensity of the kisses. Is really important. Like, I wouldn't think of this, like, okay, I need to plan out a rhythm. But it's just like, you know, when you're making out, when you, when you're having foreplay or whatever, it's not just like a straight line from, like, light to heavy, you know, it's. There's like peaks and valleys and, you know, like, when you're having sex, it's not just this, like, mad dash to the finish. Hopefully. It's, you know, it's a whole experience. There's ups and there's downs, and there's faster and there's slower. It's the same thing with kissing.

This whole rhythm roller coaster.

Yeah, yeah, it's a roller coaster.

The intensity builds and grows and then maybe you slow it down a little bit and kind of going back and forth.

Yeah. Because if it's always at the same level, then you just kind of tolerate to that level and it doesn't really. You lose, like, that good feeling.

And our final next level tip is to get your whole body involved. So we've been talking about this a little bit, but, you know, don't forget that the rest of your body is involved, especially if this is more of like a makeout session type of thing. So we talked about moving your hands over your partner's body. You can also, like, press your body up against theirs. You can try the great trick of gently pushing your partner up against the wall and, like, having pressure with your body so they're kind of pinned in between. That can be super sexy. But just use your whole body. And I think this also relates back to one of the first tips that we talked about, about being really present in the moment. If it feels like your whole body is there in that kiss, your whole body is present in that moment. It just makes it feel like a truly exceptional experience.

Oh, yeah, it's not. Kissing is not just, you know, a mouth, tongue, lips thing. It's a. It's a whole body.

It's a full contact sport.

It's a tag sport that you need your arsenal for. Yeah. Put your pads on.

You know what? I'm, I, I have to say I'm a little impressed with us because when I first thought about take a mid podcast break to toot our own horn, when I first thought about, how the hell are we gonna have a whole podcast episode about kissing? Like, we broke it down. We just did. Those are a lot of good tips.

We did.

Yeah. Okay, so now let's get into some bad kissing advice. The total opposite. We Were just kind of curious. Just for fun, we decided to. To poke around on the Internet and see what funny kissing advice there was. So there were just a couple of things that made us giggle. The first one, there were a lot of articles that were really more geared towards, like, 12 and 13 year olds. There were a lot of things about, like, drop hints that you're interested by staring at your partner or your crush's lips. And a little subtle glance might work as a nice flirtation thing. But I think if somebody catches you just. Just like staring at their lips is probably. They're probably gonna be like, oh, my God, do I have something in my teeth?

Yeah, that's just kind of creepy also because, like, when. If you're looking at another part of someone's face, like, if you're not looking in someone's eyes but you're looking close to their eyes, like, I. I could tell that you're not looking at me, but, like, you're looking at something else. Like, I can't be like, oh, she's looking at my lips. Like, I'm doing it too great. She's likely to be looking at my nose. It's just like, oh, she's like, not that into this.

Not making eye contact. Eye contact.

Kind of weird. Yeah, kind of weird.

All right, the next one, there was a whole series of photos on a. We won't call them out, but it was kind of more a teen website that was all about mapping out your kisses.

It's geared towards people of a certain age.

It was all about mapping out your kisses. And they had like, specific maps and little routes that you could plan out.

Oh, yeah. It was like forehead, no nose, lips, collarbone, earlobe.

So I do, I do love when other people try to get into the nitty gritty stuff. Like, we do too. But I think if you're making the specific plan beforehand of exactly what you're gonna do, that's gonna be the opposite of being in the moment with your partner. Like, they're gonna tell that. It just feels very methodical, like you're going through the steps rather than actually enjoying it.

All right, the next one. We've been teasing this one. If your initial kisses have gone well, try a lip lock, which can lead to closer kisses.

So I, I do think maybe we misinterpreted that one. And the lip lock they meant was like the, like open mouth kisses, but without tongue. But yeah, lip lock is kind of a funny. Does make it. It makes it seem like you just like, lock your lips together and then you don't move.

You're just like, each of you are like sucking vigorously. Like, we're locked, we're locked in. But the real question is if you are legitimately like, your lips are locked together, other how is that going to lead to closer kisses? Because, like, you cannot use your time like you're, you guys are cut off from each other. The rest of the kiss is just like, okay, maybe that's the end.

And the last one, which was my personal favorite, was suck on your partner's tongue.

I feel like there could be a time and a place for this in a very limited capacity, like, just for like a moment. But who, who wants their tongue to be just like caught in someone else's is sucked hard.

A hard sucking. That just sounds so weird. You want me to do it to you right now, don't you?

No, I don't.

Okay, so that was our bad advice from the Internet. Now let's talk a little bit about troubleshooting your kissing problems. So we went to Instagram, we asked you guys, tell us what your kissing problems are. How can we help you guys have better kisses? So here are the main things that people called out the issues that they were having around kissing. So, so by far the number one complaint was, I don't like the way my partner kisses. We asked people to get really specific with us and say, what is it that you don't like? By far the number one response was too much tongue.

Yeah, I think this can just really kill the mood. It can feel overly aggressive, probably can feel a little suffocating. If, like, if someone is doing too much tongue and you are not into that, you are probably not like also aggressively pushing your tongue into their mouth. So it probably ends up just being a one sided, like, oh, like their tongue is just like being attacked up in my mouth and I can't do anything about it. And that doesn't sound like any fun.

So here are the other things that people mentioned. An aggressive tongue, just like what you were saying, A pokey tongue, like it feels like it's kind of sliding in and out of your mouth, just poking at you. Pursed lips. So we talked about that a little bit before. Like too much pressure or the fish lips. Too little pressure. Eyes open the whole time. Bad breath. We will get to this in a minute. Going too fast. And teeth. If you do not like the way that your partner kisses, here are some tips. The first thing I'd say is to focus on giving your partner positive feedback. So try to think about, like, what about your partner's technique, do you like? Or it's not, you know, not so bad. So, for example, you could say something to them like, I love when you kiss me really slowly and sensually. It makes me want more.

Yeah, could we do some more of that next time? Yeah, let's do some more of that right now.

It's always better to ask for more of something than to ask your partner to stop something. And there. There definitely are going to be times where you are going to have to ask your partner to stop something. Another example is you could say something like, you know, I prefer just a little bit of tongue over a lot of tongue.

Yeah. Because I think it's really easy to identify something that you don't like. Like, and then give that feedback and then have the person hear that you're maybe saying, I don't like tongue at all. And then. And then you're just like, well, like, what? What the hell? Like, that's what kissing is. So, you know, try not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Like, you know, recognize that, you know, you do want some tongue. You just don't want too much tongue. So, you know, there's a really easy and polite way to say that, which is just, you know, oh, I just. I like a little bit versus a lot. Rather than being like, you're. You're giving me too much tongue, and I hate it.

So another tip that you can try out is to just show your partner what you like. So we actually. We had a really funny experience a couple of nights ago. We were talking about kissing, and for some reason, it just popped into my head. I told Xander, like, pretend to kiss me right now. Like, show me what you think you do with your mouth and your tongue, but without us actually kissing. And so we both ended up doing it. If you want to laugh with your partner tonight, ask them to show you how they kiss without kissing you. It is so weird trying to, like, kiss the air and, like, trying to show. This is what I do with my tongue. This is what I do with my lips. It's really hilarious. So that can be a nice way to just lighten the mood up a little bit.

This sounds like a meme thing. Like, show me how you kiss without kissing me.

Yeah, I've seen videos where they have people, like, kiss a plexiglass thing, which also sounds really weird and awkward, but trying to do it in the air, it's just extra weird.

Spoiler alert. It doesn't really work, and it just looks ridiculous. And when I try to do it, I Was then I was like, I don't even know how I kiss, actually. Like, what. What do I do? For me, it's like, I need another tonic. Like, I need another person there responding in order for me to even, like, know what I'm doing.

But it was. I mean, it was a funny way to just lighten the mood. And it could be a nice way to introduce talking about kissing technique. Because you do this funny thing and then you're like, oh, gosh, it makes me think, like, how do I actually kiss? Let's talk about the nuances and the details. But basically what you can do with your partner is you can kind of set up practice sessions. And I actually really like this idea for all couples, not just for couples where you don't like the way your partner kisses. You know, we've talked about so many different kissing techniques, and it's such a great opportunity to tell your partner, like, hey, let's play around with this. We're going to do a little practice session. You can come up with some fun name for it if you want, but you can try, like, okay, let's try the running your tongue over the lips thing. Let's try the pressing against the wall thing. Let's try using very little pressure and then a ton of pressure and kind of Goldilocks ing our way into finding just the right amount of pressure for us. So if you set this up as a practice session or as experiment, it takes the pressure off of you guys. It doesn't make you feel like you have to just be doing it perfectly right off the bat. It's like we're playing around with different things.

Things. Yeah, you're fine tuning your technique. Yeah.

And then, you know, you. You could also take more of the lead and you could say to your partner, okay, I'm gonna show you how I really love to be kissed. And you show me how you really love to be kissed. And so you kind of take turns in that way and you show your partner, like, this is what I'm really wanting.

Or if you want to get into a little bit of role play, you could just say that you really want to reenact that scene from Cruel Intentions where Sarah Michelle Geller teaches Selma Blair how to kiss. If you've never seen that movie, it is a great one.

Very sexy.

Very sexy.

A creepy way.

In a creepy way. Yeah. Great soundtrack. But, you know, you just feel like, I'm really into that scene. Let's reenact that and we can trade off who's who and, you know, teach Them what you like.

Our next troubleshooting topic is bad breath. So this was a really common thing that got called out in our Instagram responses. So, first of all, we just want to name, like, a couple of quick fixes to this. You definitely can always brush your teeth before you guys make out. A really easy tip is just to keep some of those little breath strips in your bedside table so that you guys can pop one really quickly if you tend to make out the most there, or just store them all over the place, all around your house. You can also kind of work on phrasing it more as a compliment. Like, I love it when you taste minty fresh. Or maybe if you. There's a certain flavor of the breath mints or the breath strips that you guys have, like, really focus on. I love the way those taste. They make me want to kiss you so much. But we want to get a little bit deeper with this one, because this is actually something that has come up in our relationship, and it was really embarrassing and really hard to deal with. So this happened a couple of years ago. One day, Xander came to me, and he asked me if I was open to having a conversation about something. I could tell that it was pretty serious for him. I don't fully remember exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of, you know, I think that something has changed. Like, you're not really tasting the same way that you usually do when I kiss you, and I'm just not quite sure if something is going on. So it was deeply, deeply embarrassing to me to, like, hear that I was having bad breath. But the way that Xander phrased it, it was really gentle, and it was in a totally separate moment. It wasn't like, right after we had just kissed or anything like that, that. So he phrased it really gently. And I think the specific language of saying, like, something has changed, that made it feel better for me because I didn't feel like it was this, you know, hey, I'm coming to you after 10 years of us kissing. And, you know, you have. You've had terrible breath the whole time.

You just can't take it anymore.

Yeah. So, again, I felt really embarrassed, but I, you know, I kind of was asking him some questions of, oh, my gosh. Like, I had no idea, when did this happen? Like, what does it taste like? And basically, it, you know, it'd been going on, I think, for a couple of weeks at that point, and I had, like, just a metallic taste in my mouth. So it took a little bit of time to like, figure out again, it was an embarrassing experience for me of like, oh, my God, I have bad breath now. I'm like carrying around breath mints and sprays and everything with me. I was really self conscious of it for a little while while, but it did make me think about it. And what I eventually realized was that I had started taking this new supplement to help my gut. I have some gut issues.

And today they are our sponsor for the podcast.

Oh, my God. No. But I was taking.

Let's sell some supplements.

I was taking this supplement. That was the only thing that had changed in the last couple of weeks. And so I stopped taking the supplement and. And lo and behold, my breath went back to being totally normal.

Minty fresh.

Minty fresh. So, you know, we wanted to share this experience with you because this is such an embarrassing experience. And maybe, baby, you can speak to, like, how hard it was to have to bring up that conversation with me.

Oh, yeah, it was. It was really challenging because I don't remember if it was like one day I just noticed it out of nowhere or if it was just kind of like, you know, after a couple of times, it was like, oh, I'm sensing a pattern, like, what's going on on? But yeah, you know, that was part of me. I was like, okay, well, let's just give this a little time and see if it resolves on its own. It could just be a one off type of thing. And then it's like it's happening more frequently. And, you know, I really care about Vanessa. I was like, oh, like, what is going on? Is something. Is something wrong? And at the same time, I know this is, you know, possibly a really embarrassing thing. You know, I don't want to be insulting to her. And, you know, eventually it sort of reached a point where it was like, it's. This is feeling like it's a bit much. You know, it's challenging our ability to really connect and be intimate. And so, you know, finally I was like, okay, I'm gonna say something. You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do it at a totally neutral, separate time where we are not close to have just made out, we're gonna make out anything like that. And yeah, just bring it up and say, you know, this is something that I've been, you know, struggling about how and when to talk about, but I really want to bring it up. And yeah, you know, it's just. Yeah, it's hard to bring something like that up. I wanted to be sure. I waited long enough that, you know, I really knew that it was an issue and there was no chance that it was just going to be like an accidental thing, like, oh, she forgot to brush her teeth one night and her smell bad the next day.

I just feel the need to point out that I've really got good oral hygiene. I brush my teeth every morning and every night. I floss every day without fail. But, yeah, I mean, I think the key was that you didn't wait too long, so it wasn't too embarrassing. You brought it up at a neutral time. You used really gentle language. Like, I could tell in the moment how hard it was for you to share that with me. So I never felt shamed, like, you were like, oh, your breath is terrible or anything like that. So I think these are all great tips that you can use. I mean, I think the reality is that if somebody is having breath issues, it's usually a sign of some underlying health issue that's going on. Like, not doctors. So definitely make sure to check with your dentist or your doctor. But for me, like, I mean, that absolutely was the case. It was just the supplement that I was taking that for some reason was messing with my system. So hopefully that gives you guys some pointers if you have to have this conversation in your relationship, because it sounds like a lot of you guys do. Let's next talk about something that's a little bit easier to talk about. Dry lips.

Easily solvable problem.

Very easily solvable problem.

Problem.

Find yourselves some nice lip balm that you both like. You get a nice flavor. If your partner doesn't usually like lip balm, like, maybe find one in their favorite flavor. You could also be a little sexy with, like, you applying lip balm and telling your partner, I'm gonna give you some of it, and giving them, you know, kisses so that their lips get the lip balm. And again, like, also just focusing on telling, like, compliments, telling your partner, like, when your lips are feel so soft when you have that lip balm on. I love kissing you. I feel like my lips just slide against yours. It's so sexy, so central. You're liking this, aren't you? I really wish sometimes we could have videos of the podcast because sometimes the interspace, when I'm describing these tips, he's like, oh, oh, I want to go get my chapstick right now.

Oh, I got it right here in my pocket. That is a great segue. Because what I was going to say is that I think think that men in particular tend to forget about chapstick. I love chapstick. I've actually, it's been since before you and I were together.

Oh, yeah.

I've always been a chapstick person. Chapstick themed, according to Vanessa. But yeah, chapstick is an option. I think that for guys, it can be like, you see, you know, girls using the Burt's beeswax or these very girly, kind of girly branded chapsticks. But there are plenty of just like basic chapsticks unflavored, that have like, SPF in them. It's good so you don't get burnt lips.

This could be a sponsor.

I used to. I used to ski a lot when I was a kid. And so, like, you have to wear chapstick or else, like, your lips just get horribly sunburnt. So I think that was kind of where I picked up the habit. Guys, if you got dry lips, even if you don't, I mean, like, you need chapstick probably throughout the day anyway to get keep not just so much.

Nicer to kiss somebody who's wearing chapstick or has put it on recently.

Now I really. I really want to put that. I pulled it out of my pocket. I'm holding it in my hand and I'm having a problem.

I'm like, I don't want to fiend. I don't want. Oh, a little ASMR for you guys.

Not sure if you heard me. I just popped the top of this chapstick and I am slowly applying it to my lips.

Oh, it's so sensual. Wow. I can't wait to kiss you. All right, and next up, we have too much tongue slash, too much spit. These kind of went hand in hand together. Yeah. So actually, that's a great way to cue that one. If you're making a lot of noise with your kissing, it's probably a sign that it's a bit too much. So, you know, you want to make sure that spit stays in each of your own mouths. Obviously, you're having a wet kiss, so there is going to be some intermingling. And finally, we have. Our last troubleshooting topic is feeling like kisses have to lead to sex. So a lot of people on Instagram talk to us about this. Here's one quote. I really enjoy kissing, but my partner takes it as a sign to jump straight to sex. We'll start kissing and he'll immediately start trying to take my clothes off. How do I tell him that I want more time with us just kissing?

Well, maybe shove him. Listen to this podcast.

Yes. So, yeah, we really want to Point out, you know, so many people love kissing just. Just for the sake of kissing. So, yes, kissing can be a fun way to lead up to sex, but it can also just be really nice to enjoy on its own. So we think it can be fun to kind of have a specific just kissing time. Maybe you come up with, like a cute, funny name for it, but where you and your partner kind of are clear with each other from the beginning of. Hey, all we're doing right now is just making out.

Make out Monday.

Oh, okay, sure. Make out Monday. Yeah, it would be like a nice little ritual that you have in your relationship. But yeah, for anyone listening, just make sure that you guys make time in your relationship to just have kisses without putting that pressure on it, needing to lead to something more.

All right, shall we move on to listener questions?

Let's do it.

First question is, my boyfriend says he can't breathe through his nose when he kisses, so he can't make out.

So when it comes to breathing during kissing, I think you can actually breathe through your nose or you can breathe through your mouth.

Mouth.

So different things will work for different people. Try them both out. But this goes back to what we were saying earlier about, like, taking little breaks in your kisses, too. Like, take breaks so you can kind of pull apart and take a breath. I think a lot of people, maybe if you're doing just constant tongue or feeling like it's supposed to be really intense, then you feel like you lose your breath and you're suffocating yourself. But I think you can do either one.

All right, next question is, does everyone make out during sex? Sex?

So for us, at least we do some amount of making out during sex. But since we have a 1 foot height difference between the two of us, we often can't get our pelvises and our mouths aligned at the same time. So there's not a ton of making out. But again, this is where, like, the idea of bringing in breaks can be so much fun. Breaks in making out. Breaks in sex as well, where, you know, we're kind of switching between different activities. That can feel like a lot of fun.

Yeah, I think it can be hard to do both at once, to be focused on thrusting, thrusting, pelvises and tongues at the same time. So, yeah, I mean, I would say I wouldn't even characterize what we do as making out necessarily. It's more like we will have a kiss occasionally. Not like, I think of making out as like sort of a. A longer, you know, multiple kisses strung together. So I feel like we kiss occasionally, but for the most part are or less focused on that.

So maybe tell us on Instagram, come over to our channel at Vanessa Marin Therapy and send us a DM and let us know. Do you make out during sex?

Yeah, I don't think that there's a requirement for making out during sex. I would. I would venture a guess that most people are not having, like, an intense makeout session during sex because it's nice to be able to look at each other and look at each other's bodies and all of that stuff. Mm. All right, so the next question is, what does it mean if I just never want to kiss my partner anymore? Is our relationship doomed?

So I think that kissing can definitely be a sign of other things that are going on in your relationship. Like, if things just aren't in a great place between the two of you, you're probably not going to want to be making out with your partner all the time. So I would look at your disinterest in kissing. I would look a little bit deeper and say, hey, what's. What else is going on in my relationship with my partner? It's not just that, you know, the kissing chemistry has changed so much that now you never want to kiss them. It's like, what else might be going on? So it's definitely not a sign that your relationship is doomed, but it probably is a sign that something else is going on.

Yeah. Like, are there things about the way they kiss you that you're not loving? And so maybe you are, you know, dreading kissing a bit. Are you wanting to be cuddling with your partner? Are you wanting to be having sex with your partner? Those are some good questions to ask to try to see. Is it just kissing or is it other things as well?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Trying to differentiate because. Yeah, I mean, it could be that you just don't like your partner's particular kissing technique, in which case, hopefully, all the tips in this episode has helped, but it also could definitely be a sign that there's something else going on in the relationship. All right, so the last question I have for you.

Great.

Wtf? What do I do with my hands? How do dudes like to be touched during a makeout session?

All right, let me speak for all dudes here. Do a variety of things. Don't just do one thing. You play around. You know, I enjoy, like, having my back rubbed. Just, like, moving your hands around. I think having hand movement in general, it feels like something's going on. It feels like you're into it. Like, I think use your hands just as an extension of your body to show your partner that you're into what's happening. You're. Vanessa's laughing because you use your hands.

As an extension of your body.

Yeah. Okay. That doesn't make a ton of sense. Your hands are a part of your body. It's a big part of your body that can help show your partner how into them you are, how into making out with them you are. So I think, you know, and also, yeah, moving around, like touching arms, biceps touching the back of the neck. But yeah, I think it just, yeah, moving around is the important, important thing. I think that when you're kind of like still or not moving, it can kind of send a signal that maybe you're not so into what's happening or you're just only receiving and it doesn't feel like a two way street.

All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. We talked about kissing for way longer than I thought we would.

Yeah, we did it. We did a great job. Vanessa, let's pat ourselves on the back.

All right, well, thank you guys so much for listening. Make sure to join us again next week when we are going to talk about a really big topic, overcoming purity culture. So if you've ever had any sort of, you know, religious beliefs about sex, religious guilt or shame, you are definitely going to want to make sure to tune in next week. And we have a brand new feature for you. Yes, if you have a question that you want us to answer on the podcast, give us a call and leave us a voicemail at SAM 774 Pillow 1. That's P I L L O W 177 4, Pillow 1. Yes, that is right. We have our very own sex hotline. Not that kind of hotline. So just leave us a voicemail and we will answer all of your sex and relationship questions on the podcast.

All right, so if you've made it to the end here and you are chomping, chomping at the bit, hopefully not chomping too hard, chomping at the lips to put these tips into practice, then head on over to our website where we've got all these tips written up for you, plus maybe a couple other goodies, you're going to want to go to vmtherapy.com Episode 7.

All right, thanks so much for listening. We'll see you guys next week.