Episode 71: Ask Us Anything Part 3: Extra Spicy Edition

So moral of the story is we are real ass people, just like everybody else with our real ass everyday problems. And we're no different than anybody else. You know, we're just maybe more willing than most to talk about it.

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Okay, babe, take today. We are going there.

Where?

There.

There. Where's there? Can't wait.

Today we are doing another Ask us Anything episode. We have done two of these episodes, so if you haven't heard any of them before, definitely scroll back and give them a listen. These are the episodes that I had a little bit of a mental block over a personal hang up over. Our team told us, hey, let's do this. It sounds like a great topic. And I was like, I don't know, does anybod want to hear a whole podcast episode about us? And yep, and it turns out you guys do. They were two of our most popular episodes and we got such great feedback about them. So we decided we're going to take it up a notch and we're going to do an extra spicy. Ask us anything.

Ooh, how spicy? I like spicy.

We'll see. I mean, there were some very spicy questions. We put up a question box on Instagram and we're like, okay, like this. Tell us what do you really want to know? What are the most personal, the most intimate questions that you would love us to answer? Like, challenge us. We kind of wanted to push ourselves to see how far are we willing to go? How deep are we willing to go?

How far are you willing to go?

Where are we willing to go? We have this list of questions, but we have not discussed them. Like, our team member put together the questions. They're all laid out in front of us, but we have. Xander and I have not had a conversation about how we feel about any of these. So we're gonna be going through this, like, live. We'll see what comes up for each of us. We will see what the conversation ends up, how it ends up unfolding. This is all just one big, vulnerable, scary, unknown.

Oh, boy.

And we are actually going to kind of see how we feel with each one. We've given each other veto power to do any last minute. Like, I can't answer that. It's too much. I cut one question already that I was just like, I can't. I don't want to go there.

It was. It was like ghost pepper spicy.

It was ghost pepper spicy. But I'm really going to challenge myself to answer all of the questions that are here, even though there are some pretty spicy ones.

Okay.

Okay. So let's go there.

Let's do it.

Okay. Let's see if you can remember the answer to this one. Most times you've had sex in one day?

I'm not certain of the answer to this. My best guess would be three.

I am not sure either. I think four, maybe. That was what I was going to guess.

All right, good for us. It definitely. I feel like my answer would definitely be with you.

Oh, I didn't even. I didn't even consider.

I mean, we could consider past partners. I'm. I'm nearly certain. I'm nearly certain I've not done it three or more times with anybody else. I would imagine.

I hold your record.

I would imagine that it would probably be fairly early in our relationship, but.

Like the first maybe, I'm for sure.

I don't know.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, we're not regular, like multiple times in a day. It happens. It's actually been happening more often lately.

Oh, yeah.

Nice surprise. But typically we're not. But yeah, I like, we tend to be pretty satisfied with, like the one and done. It's the same way with multiple orgasms. We get that question a lot. So I guess I'm throwing that one out there too. Like, a lot of people, like, oh, how many orgasms do you go for in one session? And we both tend to be pretty happy with just one. Like, there's not a desire to keep going.

Yeah, Well, I think for most men there isn't really an option to keep going. Because of men of your age. Men of my age, yes, sure. But, yeah, typically, yeah. You don't love to keep going. I feel like early in our life relationship sometimes you would have multiple ones. And then I think we kind of like had a whole talk about it. You were like, you know, I actually don't really enjoy that so much.

Yeah, I mean, the way that my orgasms work, like, I've definitely had multiple orgasms, but the way that my orgasms work is that eats each sequential one is less and less each successive One successive.

Sequential. Sequential is like in sequel. I mean, it makes sense, but nobody says that you'd say each successive, like the next one and the next one.

All right, whatever. Each successive one gets less and less. Less like intense and pleasurable. It just kind of feels like, eh, I don't know. They're not as exciting. Like, the first one is definitely huge and explosive and earth shattering. So I'm like, okay, I'm done. I don't really feel the desire to keep going, especially knowing that it's gonna be like, okay, that one was fine. Anyways. Yeah, I think the answer is four.

But wow.

Yeah.

Hell yeah. Good for us.

Okay.

I didn't give us that much credit. All right. Vanessa, have you ever slept with a friend of mine before dating?

Yes, I have, Xander.

You have? And I had to remind you. I had to remind you of this.

Yeah. Because we got a lot of like, random kinds of questions and it was like, oh, yeah, there's no way for you to know. Like for our listeners to know beforehand, like whether or not it's gonna be a spicy question. Like a lot of them we were just like, oh, no, we don't have anything, like, fun to share about that. But then some of them like, yeah, I was like, no, no, we haven't done that. And Xander was like.

I was like, you. I was like, you have. I haven't. I have not, but you have. I have.

To be fair, it was like a very, very brief, like, completely meaningless summer fling. And it was with somebody that you knew from, like I knew from high school. High school.

I didn't go to Close friends. Yeah, I. I didn't. I did not go to high school with this person. This person was good friends with one of my good high school friends. And so we. We hu. Now I've hung out with this person probably like one on one a couple of times, but way back in the day, Vanessa and I discovered this, like, after we started dating. Yeah. And it was just like as we were kind of casually talking about, you know, some of our. Our past flings, and Vanessa sort of like mentioned someone or maybe like mentioned like his house or something, and I was like, this sounds really familiar to me. I know this person.

Not a super close friend. And it was a long time ago.

Yeah. Way before I knew Vanessa and way after I was actively in any kind of, like, real friendship with this person.

But also like one of those moments definitely where you're like, how is the world so small? How did I have this like, random, very short lived fling with Somebody that you, like, were friends with.

Yeah. Though you know what? That actually just made me remember something. No, I did not sleep with this person. I didn't have any sexual contact with this person. However, we remember, we did discover when we were looking through, like, my, like a middle school journal type thing. I went to middle school with someone that you went to college with and you actually knew kind of. And like, there was. There was a moment, really a one day period where it seemed like we kind of had a crush on each other and she was like, writing all these things in my little, like, graduation journal or something like that.

Oh, wait, but hold on. Also, when we met, you were sleeping with somebody who I was going to.

You later went to school. No, that's right.

I later.

You later went to school with this person. That's out of my hands. I knew her first. I went to school with her first. You went to school with her later, so that doesn't count. But, you know, the world is a small place.

It is. Okay, Xander, what is our most used sex position?

Can I answer with two answers?

Yeah.

I would say it's a pretty 50, 50 split between missionary and cowgirl.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I guess if I had my way, like, maybe it would be a little more cowgirl than missionary. I love cowgirl. I guess I'm a secret pillow princess. An undercover pillow princess.

We both like being on bottom.

We both like it.

Just be lazy. Do me. Um, yeah. We rotate between those two positions a lot. Probably, like every other time. But we do like to make variations.

Yes, we do.

To those positions. So it's like we. We fall back on those a lot, but we're always experimenting with, like, different angles, moving a limb, sitting up, changing things around. And, like, it actually feels really different.

Yeah. I feel like what's great about those two positions is they each afford you a number of variation possibilities. So it can really feel like even if you're just in cowgirl the whole time or just in missionary the whole time, there are a lot of different things you can do in each of those positions to make it really feel like you've gone through three or four different ones.

Okay. I will say, though, that I'm probably a little bit more adventurous with positions than you are. You like to find positions that, like, they work for you. They're really good, you enjoy them. And I'm a little bit more like, let's try it just for the sake of trying it. And I don't really care if it's like, it's not the greatest position. It's like not hitting exactly the right angle. Like I enjoy trying it and like playing around with it just for the sake of playing around with it.

True. I think I'm a lot more open to that recently. In the past, I haven't been super open to that, admittedly, because I've gotten in my head for a very long time. I did get in my head about losing erections and I think like trying positions and trying, trying new sex positions can be a stressful thing because it's totally. It's way easier to lose your erection when you're in the middle of moving around positions, trying to get into position. And so like, you're already like, okay, like I'm moving around, like I'm not getting any stimulation. And then you get into some new position and like say it's not spectacular or it's like not super stimulating for you. It's sort of like a double whammy. And so in the past, you know, I had a, I had a whole complex about losing erections and, you know, feeling like, oh, my only way to give you what you need during sex or to perform like a man was to be rock hard and to finish that way. I've done a lot of work on myself and the way I think about that and more recently I think I've been a little more adventurous and like. Yeah, I know. Hey, yeah. If it isn't as hard as it was before, we got options for how to get it hard again. And if it's not getting hard again, like there are other things that we can do together to feel like we've had a successful sex for sure, success filled session.

I feel like this is a little bit of a tangent, but I feel like we maybe should do an episode about performance issues, like from a man's perspective, because you've really had like, you have really gotten into your head about it and like, it's interesting like hearing you talk about it, because I'm sort of like putting myself in the position of the listener and I'm thinking like, it really sounds like you had a lot of performance issues. And the reality is you didn't. There weren't that many times where you actually like lost your erection or struggled to get hard or struggled to get organ. Like it's a very tiny percentage, but.

Those, those few times, they stick with ya.

I know. And that's what, that's what I think is so interesting to talk about is like getting inside the head of the.

Head of a man, the male head, the Big head, giving male head.

I realized what I was walking into right as I started saying that. But, yeah, I think a lot of us women don't really understand experience so much, because to me, I'm like, this very rarely happened. I don't know why we're, like, talking about this again. But for you, like, I know that you got into your head and it got stressful, and it was something that you were thinking about a lot. But so I just think that disparity is really interesting of how stressed you got about it and how rarely it actually happened.

Yeah. You know, I think a good parallel could be because we hear about this from a lot of women who write in talking about initiating sex and. And being rejected or being turned down and how that sticks with. I think this is very akin to that. Like, a lot of women are like, yeah, like, I used to initiate all the time, and then I got turned down once, and I will never do it again. It was so awkward. It was so horrible. So it's like, if you think about that, okay, if you actually look at the number of times that this is happening, number of the percentage of times you end up feeling rejected, it's a really low percentage. But, like, the one time it happens, you're like, oh, God, that was so bad. I just can't ever think about doing that again. And I think it's kind of what it can be like for a lot of guys. You have, you know, one or two kind of performance anxiety situations, and it just sticks in your mind, and it feels like a huge thing that's happening all the time, when in reality, it's happening, like, 2% of the time.

Well, we do have a podcast episode specifically about how to navigate getting turned down for sex. So go back and check that out if you haven't listened to that already. And we'll also link to our Sex Position Playbook. That was something that we really thought about in creating this playbook was how to transition in between positions in the most graceful way. That's such a weird word. In the best way, you know, to minimize the, like, the lack of sensation. So minimize any potential performance issues. So we'll link that as well if you're interested in checking out more positions.

Yeah, we actually have a hack to completely help you avoid that experience of, like, oh, my God, how do we get into this position? Oh, my God, I'm not getting stimulated. We have a really. A really smart way for how to completely avoid that. And if you get the Sex Position Playbook, you'll see exactly what it is. Okay, next question. Who initiates more often?

Like, I'm debating how deep I want to go on this one.

Let's do it.

Okay. We've had. We've gone back and forth. We've had different seasons of our relationship. It's not always been consistent. I would say in this season of our relationship, you initiate more often than I do.

Yeah, definitely.

And this is something like, you know, so many of the podcast episodes that we've created are because we've had our own history with things. You know, we've gone through our own struggles and challenges. It's really important to us to, like, be vulnerable and normalize some of the things that, you know, that couples go through, especially in long term relationships. I will say, like, I think our sex life functions a little bit better when you're the one who's initiating more often.

Hmm. Interesting. Why?

We. So we've had some challenges with, like, we've had different seasons of our relationship where I've had the higher sex drive and seasons where you've had the higher sex drive. I think in general, we're, like, pretty evenly matched. But I just think that, like, kind of going back to the, like, getting into your head thing, I think that we've had periods of our relationship where you've gotten into your head about me having a higher sex drive.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, it just, it's. It's. Man, this is hard to talk about. I'm being very ineloquent now. But I think it's, you know, it's. You've talked about how it's been so brainwashed and, you know, socialized into your mind that, like, the guy is supposed to have the higher sex drive. And even though we rationally understand that it doesn't need to be that way, like, it has brought up some insecurities for you when I've had the higher sex drive and I'm the one initiating more often. And so we talk a lot about how, like, initiation is deeply vulnerable, and we think that it's something that couples should share. And we don't mean, like, keep track of it. And it has to be 50, 50 every single time. So there are definitely times that I initiate. But I think that, like, if I'm initiating a lot, it does send you back into that, like, trickier headspace of, like, am I having a higher sex drive at this point in our relationship than you are? And it just, like, brings up some of those old feelings that are challenging to navigate.

Yeah, that. That's totally true. I mean, I think it's interesting. I kind of. I look at it as a weird chicken or egg type of scenario. And here's what I mean by that. You know, like you said, we have been through periods where your sex drive was a lot higher and where you were initiating more. And we are in a period now where, yeah, it feels like I am initiating sex a lot more. A couple years ago, you know, I. I went through a hard time when it came to just dealing with, like, what that initiation disparity or that desire disparity, what that really was like for me. And I've done a lot of personal work on trying to deprogram a lot of that in my mind. And, you know, I've done a lot of other, you know, just personal work in terms of, like, figuring out what I want with my life, doing the things that make me happy. You know, part of that is surfing a lot, getting in better shape, being healthier. And so all of that work combined has, you know, definitely increased my sex drive. I feel a lot more comfortable, you know, with my sexuality. I feel a lot more comfortable, like, in my own skin, and I feel a lot more comfortable initiating sex. And you see that because I am initiating sex way more often. And so the reason I say it's a chicken or egg type thing is that it's like I have done a lot of work on trying to kind of of break down that societal programming in my mind and. And you know, along with other stuff, and that's really helped me increase my sex drive and initiate more. And so I am initiating more. And as I'm initiating more, it also feels easier for us at the same time. So it's. It's hard to tell, like, oh, is it. Is it that I'm just initiating sex porn, therefore things feel better between us, or is it like I'm doing a better job not letting that stuff get into my head? And, you know, of course, I still have work to do. You know, we had. We had an argument somewhat recently because something happened and around sexual initiation, and I didn't respond to it so well. And, you know, but I'm very aware of exactly what was going on. For me. It wasn't. I wasn't trying to rationalize it or like, blame it on something else. I was like, oh, yeah, that's that, like, social conditioning. And, you know, I'm feeling that that's exactly what. What's coming up for me. So I still have work to do. Everyone always has work to do on this kind of stuff. But I. I Feel a lot more comfortable with it. I'm a lot. I'm way more comfortable just identifying it. Oh, yeah, this shit again. It's coming up.

Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes people get the impression that, like, we have this perfect sex life and that we're, you know, we share stories from the past of, like, challenges that we've had, but it's all smooth sailing now.

It's not.

And so I'm, you know, even though this is obviously a little bit hard to talk about and I'm, like, struggling with it a little bit to talk about it, I'm glad that we're sharing it, to just share, like. Yeah, we're still in the messy middle with certain things in our sex life too. It's not that everything's perfect and smooth sailing and yeah, we had those couple little road bumps in the beginning and now it's all perfect. It's not. Yeah, we can't, like, wrap our story up in a tidy little bow like that.

And it's also never going to be perfect.

Oh, never? No. And I'll also take some ownership here of I have the exact same bullshit socialization that I've grown up my entire life being told that, you know, women in male female relationships are supposed to have the lower sex drive and I'm supposed to, like, respond to you and not really, you know, have that much desire on my own. And so I've absolutely had times when it's felt like I have a higher sex drive than you in that season of life. Like, that's been really hard for me. And I can again, talk about it rationally all I want. Like, it's normal for women to have higher sex drives. It's common. Let's talk about it. Let's normalize it. It's okay. And I still really fucking struggle in the moment when it's like my brain is like, this is okay. It's okay for me to want it however much I want it, but there are also those voices in the back of my head saying, like, no, this is not what women are supposed to be like. So. It is. Yeah, it is a challenge for me too. And I think, yeah, it's just. It's something that we're continuing to navigate. So.

So moral of the story is we are real ass people, just like everybody else with our real ass everyday problems, and we're no different than anybody else. You know, we're just maybe more willing than most to talk about it.

Yeah, I think so. Okay, let's lighten things up for a minute. Hottest place you've had sex. I have an answer, but I. I'm curious to know if we're gonna have the same answer.

I have an answer. My answer is different from the answer that we. I feel like we get asked this question on Instagram sometimes, and we have given an answer a number of times. And I have a different answer.

Oh, okay. What's your answer?

My answer is in our little plunge pool of our. At a certain hotel in the Maldives for our anniversary last year.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was pretty sexy.

That was sexy. There were. I mean, there was definitely the risk of being caught or seen. I mean, it was. No one. We. Because we were in the pool, like, no one could have seen what was going on. Seemed like what was going on down below. But, yeah, I think that was probably the most voyeuristic thing we've done.

You're right. I forgot about that. I will update my answer to that. That was pretty hot.

All right, now we're really going in. Vanessa.

Oh, God.

If the other changed their mind about wanting kids, would you reconsider your stance? So I guess let's answer it. Let's just be really clear. If I changed my mind, would you reconsider your stance?

Well, first of all, let's just say if you haven't listened to episode 37 of the podcast, definitely add that to your list. That is where we talk about our decision to be child free. It's by far our most popular podcast to date. Okay. If you changed your mind about wanting kids, would you reconsider? So I. How do I say this? I would be willing to. I would be willing to reconsider in the sense of, like, I would be respectful of the fact that you've changed your mind. I would know that that would be a really big deal for you to change your mind. And so I'd be willing to think about it again in that context, because I have never considered kids in the specific context of you wanting them and me not. So I would be willing to think about it again. But would I be willing to have a child?

I mean, it's too hard. It's too hard to say that. I think this is the really important thing is that Vanessa and I both differentiate between, like, the. The. Would we reconsider it as a couple? Like, would we open ourselves up to have that conversation of considering it? We separate that from the. Just, like, in a vacuum, making the decision of, oh, yeah, I'd have kids if she wanted them. I don't think you can really say that in a vacuum, you can't be like, oh, well, if she changed her mind, would I just say yes or no? It's like, no. Like, you gotta. You gotta wait until other conversations. Yeah. Like, you gotta wait until you get to that point where she is actually saying, you know what? I'm starting to think about this. Let's talk about it.

Yeah. I just think it would have to be a different conversation. We've never had that conversation of one person wanting them and one person not. I will say, though, like, if I felt the same that I do right now and you had changed your mind, like, I wouldn't have a kid just because you wanted them. Like, to me, it's. As much as I love you and we've built this life together, and I want to spend the rest of my life with you. Like, to me, it's also a really individual decision, and vice versa. If I was the one who wanted kids and you really didn't, I would not want you to, like, neglect your truth and to agree to have. You know, we're not talking about something like, should we live in this city or that city, should we buy this car or that car? Like, we're talking about bringing a human life into this world. This is a really big thing, and it's not something that I would want you to compromise on. And I don't think I would want to compromise on it either. So I think it would put us in this really difficult position of us having to decide, like, what feels more important, this relationship or a child. And I would obviously be, like, devastated if you decided that a child was most important to you. And I would also honor that. That's your truth. I would know that that would be a really hard decision for you to make. And so if you needed to, like, walk away from this relationship to, like, again, it would destroy me, but I would also understand it at the same time. And if you. If you were to say, I really want a kid, and you know what? I've thought about it, and I would rather us be in this relationship and me not, you know, leave to pursue this dream, I would also have a lot of space for what a huge loss that would be for you.

Yeah.

And I hope the. The opposite would be true if those roles were reversed.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I personally am not reconsidering my stance, but I would. I would really seriously reconsider my stance if you were to change your mind about that.

If you still felt.

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is where I am on it right now is that I'm not a. I'm not a. I'm not like a strong. No, I'm not like, no, I can't have kids. I'm like, I'm really happy with where we're at. I'm really happy with where we're at. I'm not desiring having a kid. That being said, I'm not. Not desiring having a kid, if that makes any sense. So. So yeah, and I mean, we've talked about this a bit, but, you know, just, you know, things have changed for me a lot personally over the last couple of years in terms of just how I see myself in the world and how I feel about myself. And. Yeah, I. You know, I think there was a time in the past where I. I probably subconsciously really worried about my ability to be a good father, and I don't feel that way anymore. That being said, I'm not actively. I'm not feeling like, oh, my God, I need to have a kid right.

Now, or I could be great parents. Yeah, I don't. I don't have any doubt in my, like, ability to be a good parent, but it just comes back to the. The question of desire for me. But yeah, it's. It's interesting. It's hard to know what would happen if we got into that situation, but, yeah, it is. I just want to set a little bit of a boundary here. Like, please don't DM us saying that you think that we secretly want to have kids or we should have kids. Like, I know that we do talk about our decision to be child free pretty openly, and we have gotten pretty comfortable with that decision. And it. It still feels so deeply vulnerable and it's hard for us to talk about. And so I know that might sound harsh sometimes when I say, like, don't DM us, but we do get a fair amount of DMs from people saying, like, I think that you guys should have kids, or I can tell that Xander secretly wants them and, and you don't. And it's, you know, we just get sent a lot of crap and it's like, it's really hard to read. And even sometimes when people are sending it with the best of intentions, like, I think you guys. Guys secretly both want to, and you'd be such great parents. Like, even when you. We know that you guys have nothing but, like, kind thoughts in your hearts, like, it's still really hard to read stuff like that. So just wanted to give a little bit more context and explain that and thank You. Okay, now we're gonna do a real pivot here. We're gonna go from talking about kids into anal sex. Do you regularly have anal sex?

Well, short answer here, short and quick answer is, no, we do not regularly have anal sex. We have. We have had sex a couple of times, like a long time ago, and we found that we preferred like other aspects of anal play better than anal sex. And yeah, we stick to PIV for intercourse and, you know, occasionally implement other aspects of anal play.

Yeah, I mean, we tried it and it was, it was, I think one time was a really enjoyable experience. One time was kind of like an okay experience. And we discovered after that, though, that we both really enjoy anal play. And that brought us like a lot more pleasure and enjoyment. It was easier, like the whole thing. So that was actually like one of the big pieces of inspiration around creating our Butt Stuff guide, which is our newest guide, is that we realized so many people think butt stuff and you just immediately think anal intercourse. And that's not the only way to do butt stuff. And definitely for us, it was the case that actually, like, anal sex was not the most pleasurable. We enjoyed it in a play a whole lot more. So we'll link to our Butt Stuff guide in the show notes too.

All right. I guess kind of in the same vein, so to speak. Do we have a sex room?

So we've been getting this question a lot because of that Netflix show. The answer is no, we don't. We do not have a sex room.

Unless you count our bedroom. We have a lot of sex in our bedroom versus other places. We basically don't really have sex in other places of our house though, where we live now. We absolutely could.

I mean, we don't have the space to like create a whole sex room.

Oh no, no.

You guys want to like, buy some more foreplay guides and more butt stuff, guys, and maybe we could afford to make a sex room.

Oh no, no. What I meant is, is we could absolutely have more sex in other rooms of our house that aren't our bedroom.

Uh huh. And who is the main person who holds us back from that?

Me.

It's me.

Well, you know what?

Similar to the positions, you just, you're. You enjoy it the mo. I think you just, you're somebody who like, you like to find what is the peak experience and you replicate as many of those things as you can. Whereas I'm like, yeah, having sex like, okay, we had sex on our kitchen, like, countertop basically a couple weeks ago. And it was like, objectively it was not incredible sex. Like, it was a difficult position. Like, we weren't exactly at the right angle. It wasn't like the most pleasurable sex we've had. But, like, I loved it because I like being in a different location and trying something different. Whereas for you, you're like, the bed is just so much more comfortable. Like, I would rather be in the bed. And I'm like, yeah, I would rather be in the bed too, but, like, I'm willing to have a less ideal experience for the novelty of it.

Yeah, I mean, my. My challenge was I was like, I'm not sure that I can come like this.

You were. You in particular were in a really tough.

Yeah, I was at a time angle, and I was like, I'm not sure I can get there like this, so let's move somewhere where I can, please. So, you know, I'm just advocating for.

Myself, my pleasure, and I'm not saying, like, there's no right or wrong. Like, you know, if we were. If we only had sex the way that you wanted it to, we would have great sex every time. Because you're all about, like, what's the peak ideal experience? And so that's not any better or worse than me being like, I'm willing to risk a little bit of the pleasure for the novelty aspect. It's just two different approaches. And I think we do a good job of balancing each other out and, like, having the kind of sex that each other wants to have.

I would also like to blame our dogs, though, because if we didn't. If we didn't have the dogs, then. Then I feel like we would just be fucking all over the house. Because the challenge. Right. So we put our dogs. We have a walk in closet that doubles as the dog's room where they. Where they sleep.

Dogs have a room. We don't have a sex.

The. Do the dogs have a very nice room. It's. It's really nice. It's carpeted. They have a really plush bed in there. There is heat and air conditioning in that room. There's windows in that room. It's a great bedroom for the dogs. It allows them to sleep comfortably, snore as much as they want without bothering us. And it's connected to our bedroom, so it's really can. You know, we have to put our dogs away because they. We do not have the type of dogs that, like, allow you to just have sex and they don't bother. So, yeah, we have to put our dogs away. And where, you know, the easiest place to put the dogs away is into their room, which is in our room. So you know, I guess like we could definitely do it around the house more if it was just like, okay, let's put the dogs away. Let's like walk down to their room, put them away and then walk back to where we were. So I don't know. It's a challenge. We'll report back and see if we're doing it all over the house more.

Okay. Who's louder?

That is a really good question. So there was a time when I would have said me, but I think you are now.

I have an answer. I have a more specific answer. I'm louder noise wise.

Okay.

And you're louder talking.

I'm more verbose.

You're more verbose.

You're louder. I'm more verbose. Okay. Yeah, I 100% agree and I enjoy that with that. Yeah. You know the funny thing, I'll just, I'll just throw in something extra here that nobody asked. But I, I, you know, I, I've, I'm realizing that like I have a, I, I really like making noise during sex, but I don't like the idea that other people might hear us. And so like if we have our windows open, I find myself getting really like in my head and I see that you don't.

No, I don't care.

Vanessa does not care at all. And, and similarly, like when we are at a hotel, I find myself actually feeling a little more reserved.

Oh, hotel. I'm like going nuts.

Vanessa does not give a, like.

No. But what the weird thing is is that you don't like it when I'm quiet because we have had time. Like we're making me sound like I'm totally disrespectful. Like if I know there are people around who like, yeah, like if when we're at my parents house, like I'm not going to be screaming or anything like that.

It's a, it's an out of sight, out of mind thing though for, for Vanessa at a hotel. She's like, she's like, I have plausible deniability. I never saw anyone go in or out of that room.

Nobody sees me. Nobody knows who I am. Like I'm not trying to like have sex and be screaming at like three in the morning. Like we're having sex.

Wake up and listen.

I am a respectful person about it, but if it's like a normal hour, I, I just don't put any thought into like, oh, let me be quiet because maybe there's somebody in the room. Next door and maybe the walls are thin. Like, I just. Whatever.

Yeah.

But anyways, we have had times, like when we're having sex at my parents house where I'm quiet because I'm being respectful and you don't like it.

Yeah, I'm. You know what? I'm a. About this one. I. I'm a little about this one. You know, it's like, if you're too quiet, it doesn't work. If you're too loud, no. Good. So, you know, I'm just full of contradictions here. I will be the first to admit it. I have some work to do on just letting myself go when someone might overhear me. Because, you know, like. Like we were talking about that. That pool in the Maldives. That was hot. Like that. That was really hot. You know, usually I'm not into voyeuristic. Yeah, I like that because it was like, okay, like no one's gonna like, like, see our genitals, but people could absolutely see us, like, grinding up on each other above the water.

Just like we were like, hugging, but there was nobody, like, immediately around. Invisible.

Yeah.

Yeah. Anyways, though I will say in terms of. In terms of pure volume, you have been known sometimes at orgasm to really let out some loud ones.

Well, and this is why we shouldn't. This is, you know, why we should do cowgirl more than missionary. It's only in missionary that this is a problem. I. I am scared I'm gonna blow out Vanessa's ears.

Oh, yeah. They have been blown out several times. Like you. You get your face down in my ear and then it's like screaming. And also, we had like, the funniest thing happen a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, my God. I'm never gonna hear the end of this song.

And Xander was really nervous that he had blown my eardrum out because he's done that a few times and it bad. And he was like, stuttering over his words and so nervous, and he was trying to ask me, like, did I scream too loud? Did I scream too loud? And I was like, no, no, it's okay. You were fine. Like, it was not that loud.

Well, we're going there.

I got squirted.

Yeah, I said I got squirted. And what I. It was. I was. I started saying. I was. I was in my head. I couldn't decide if I was saying I got. Got scared or I was worried. And I said I squirted a squirt. I probably didn't. I probably didn't say, like, I got. I probably didn't say squirted all the way, but it was like I got squirrel. Like, I didn't know where I was going.

I. I don't know if this guy.

I was in the.

Anybody else?

Yeah, I don't know.

I almost peed my pants laughing.

Yeah, I was, I was in the midst of my. I don't know if anyone else is a fan of the show the Leaf, but I was, I was in the midst of my vinegar strokes. And, yeah, I was not really thinking what was coming out of my mouth, and that was funny. All right, Vanessa, brass tacks here. Have you tried all the things, all the advice in your guides? In our guides.

Mostly.

I mean, I feel like we can't. We can't like, in good conscience say 100% of the things guaranteed.

I mean, I think we try. So we do take this very seriously. Like, we, we test out as much stuff as we can personally. Like the sex position playbook that we already mentioned, that comes to mind in particular. Like, we really, we put a lot of work into that, like, testing all the positions out because we wanted to get super detailed with our advice of, like, here's exactly how to move. Here's exactly how you get into it, exactly how you get out of it, how you like what positions work well to transition in and out of it. So we tried everything in that. We tried everything in the foreplay guides. The one thing that's coming to mind is, like, with butt stuff, there are a few things covered in butt stuff, like more advanced things, like, I've never pegged you. Those kinds of things that we haven't tried necessarily. But if there's anything that we haven't tried, we do a ton of research and we also get feedback from other people. And with butt stuff in particular, we did a whole round of beta testers, like, asking people to try things out so we could get a sense of, like, what worked and what didn't. But I would say, you know, 95% of what we recommend, like, we've tried.

Yeah, I, I think the thing here is that, like, sometimes there are certain things that don't really work well for us or that aren't applicable to us or where perhaps, like, you know, we have a 1 foot height difference between the two of us. So there might be certain things that just don't work very well or just aren't straight up aren't possible for us. And so, you know, that's why we get feedback from other people. It's like, oh, Vanessa knows from working with tons of couples in her private practice in the past. Like, this works for a lot of couples that are struggling with X, Y, or Z. And that might be something that we can't try or just. It isn't a good fit for us. The goal of our business is not like, here's how we have sex. You should do that too. Yeah. Like, we're not trying to be like, you know, I don't know, sex influencers, where it's just like, do everything the way we do it. It's like, here's what we do, here's what works for us, here's what doesn't work for us, and here's what works for other people as well. So we try to give advice that you know is going to work for as many people as possible. And if it doesn't work for you, here are a couple alternatives that either we do or that other people give us good feedback about.

Yeah. Okay, next question. What is your favorite role play? Is it the milkman? Is that why you went so hard on the milkman in our role playing episode? It's another one to check out if you have not listened to that one yet.

You know, this is a good. I mean, this is a good question. You know, I should. I should request role plays from you more often because I'm not sure I really ever have.

I'm the one who's more into role playing.

You are more into role play. I mean, if I'm thinking about it, like, I mean, I do love any kind of scenario where, like, you know, I guess, like, where you kind of take control or, you know, like, where you come on to me. So perhaps. Perhaps any kind of thing where you just met me or you're just coming over for the first time.

I want to do that all the time. And you're like, I don't know.

Oh, maybe I'm up for it now. I don't want to do that. I don't. Okay, you don't want to do the.

Meet strangers meeting in a bar?

Yeah, it's like, I don't really. I don't like, I'm not into. Did like, the lead up. The lead up of like, oh, I have to, like, pretend to, like, ask all these random questions.

You just want to get straight to the fucking.

Yeah, I guess so.

No, I mean, I think what you like is you, like when I play up certain aspects of my personality, but you don't necessarily like to try on, like, be totally different people. Yeah, but you're. Yeah, you're more turned on by, like, oh, let me Be super bossy or aggressive or let me be like, super submissive or, you know, that kind of thing. But it's not like you're not turned on by like. Oh, yeah, yeah. Play the, like.

Yeah. I don't know.

The first example that came to my mind was like, the naughty school girl kind of thing. And then I was like, no, that's too weird. Like, why is that the only thing I can think of now? Like, you don't like me to pretend to be the nurse? The naughty nurse kind of thing.

I mean, I could get down with that.

Okay, we're gonna have to.

We're gonna have to try a lot.

Of action items after this.

We're have to report back. We gotta do, like, yeah, back version on this episode. We. We got some action items for sure. But what about you, Vanessa? Vanessa has a very specific one that she loves.

I really do. I like it when you play a masseuse.

No, you.

A specific type of naughty masseuse? Yes. We'll get a little handsy and I'm.

Good at that one.

She's very good at that one. Okay, last question. How do you identify sexually?

I'd say I'm. I'm pretty darn straight. I. I've thought about it a lot. I've.

You've made the space for you to not be so straight.

I've made the space. I've. I've played in college, I think once or twice. Played a, like, pansexual spin the bottle game. I. I did kiss a guy or two. It wasn't for me. They were both my friend, like gay friends of mine. And we both came away from it being like, oh, go. Both of us were like, let's never do that again.

Yeah. No, I mean, I appreciate that you, you know, have just, like, made the space for you to be like, Yeah. I mean, I'm open to whatever, but. You are. Yeah.

You're very straight. I'm open to it. It never comes around.

So I. My answer is a little more complicated. I actually put a label on myself for the first time in the book. The book is very fresh on my mind since we are doing a lot of pre orders right now.

Since you have it in your hand. I know since yesterday we got a box of our books. It's so cool.

Yeah. There is a book highlight on Instagram if you missed us unboxing our book for the very first time. But we have a section at the very beginning of the book where we talk about inclusivity and kind of talk about some of Our biases in the way, you know, our privileges, in the ways that we kind of look at the world and all of that. And so we are identifying different aspects of ourselves. And I decided to use the term. I've never heard anyone else use it before. I'm sure somebody else has come up with it, but I used the term heteroish, and that felt. I kind of stumbled upon it in the moment, just in the midst of writing, and I was like, this feels exactly like what I am, heteroish. So I'm just really attracted to people, honestly. Like, I find people of all genders attractive and interesting and sexy, which on.

The surface might suggest, like, pansexual, but.

I've just never resonated with that term. And I also, like, I. I am very into men. So, yeah, I've never really resonated with bisexual or with pansexual. Hetero. Ish. Just felt like, yeah, that. That feels right. So I've had sexual experiences with women. Pretty tame, honestly, just to, like, second base kind of thing. And honestly, I probably would have explored a lot more had you and I not met at a very young age.

Oh, so it's my fault.

It's not. It's not your fault. I would have explored more. But, yeah, I mean, it's. To me, it's. I am not left with the feeling of, like, there's this whole aspect of my identity that I never explored or I never got the chance to, like. It just sort of feels like, yeah. I mean, I had some, you know, I had some experiences with women. I enjoyed it.

It.

And, you know, then I met my person, and that just was the timing of how it worked out.

But, yeah, she locked that down.

I locked it down. So, yeah, that I am. That, I think, is the best word to describe me. Hetero. Ish. Mostly hetero, but little ish face for a little ish. All right, that's the end of our question.

We did it. Was it spicy enough?

How much have you blushed today?

A bit. A little bit. A little blushy.

A little blushy of blush.

Dish.

There was one thing that. That we ended up cutting from this episode.

You know, you'll never know what it is until the next one.

So we hope you enjoyed this. It's.

It's.

Honestly, it's been fun to be. I don't know if that's the right word.

You didn't sound like you believed it as you said it. I was. I was like. I kind of wanted to call you out right then. I was like, let's See where she go with this. It's been fun.

I am sweating a little bit. I definitely blushed, but no. Here's a better way to say, I'm glad that we pushed ourselves to be extra vulnerable and to talk about some things that we're still in the messy middle of, some things that have challenged us in the past, some things that are hard to admit or hard to talk about. Like, I'm glad that we did it. It's been a valuable experience.

Yeah, I agree.

I think that. Yeah, I think vulnerability is important. I think these kinds of open and honest conversations are important, and I'm glad that we were both willing to do it.

Yeah. I appreciate you for being vulnerable. Thanks. I, like, I enjoy being. I enjoy being vulnerable with you. Makes me feel closer to you.

Oh, ditto.

And to all you listeners who are experiencing it with me, whom I can't see, but you're there nonetheless.

Okay.

All right, well. Well, on that note, we're gonna say that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about something totally different. Sex and pain.

I really have to stop. It's the therapist in me. Like, you're so trained to just do. That's like. Yeah, but.

But instead of. But instead of inviting me to say more, that's literally the end of the podcast. So we're going to leave you on.