Episode 80: Be A Man And Talk About Your Feelings

I think most people think of emotions kind of as an inconvenience. And it's like, even if you feel permission to have them or to feel them or, like, okay, it makes sense why I'm feeling that. There's still this hierarchy that, like, being rational, not being emotional, like, that's better.

Yeah.

And we get praised for that. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we're talking about men.

Love it.

What?

Love that. We're talking about men. I love it. Loving it.

I don't even get it. You just want to talk about men.

No. And then you say the next line and emotions. Oh, like, I'm really excited. I'm excited. Like, oh, yeah, we're talking about men. And then it's like, emotions.

Oh, that's your great idea for how to start this episode? I'm very confused. Okay, let's not talk about emotions. Let's just talk about men. What do you want to talk about? Tell me all your favorite man topics.

I don't know. We. We just got in. Not. Not a heated argument. I say this completely jokingly. A heated argument about whether you measure penis size from the flaccid penis or the erect penis.

You want to talk about that?

No, not really.

Okay, what are your other man topics? Hit me.

You got.

You got so excited to talk about men being a man.

No, no. Why don't I let you open the podcast the way that you wanted to and we'll see which one the audience likes better. I mean, are we really going with mistake? I thought that was pretty bad.

It was, but now I think we've committed to it and we just have to go through with it. I was just going to say, you know, today we're talking about men and emotions, and we got in the mood by listening to Emotions by Mariah Care. I was going to say I wasn't going to torture you and ask you to sing it, because that's. There's some high notes in that song.

Yeah, I mean, my impression of that song having just listened to it, is like, I Can't what? Oh, my God. I thought. I thought I might be able to.

Get a dying cat.

I thought I was going to be able to get a high pitched squeak out.

Can you try the little. Like the little.

That's what I was trying to do.

I know, but try to start it from the low notes.

Where? I don't know. That's the best I got.

That sounds like a dying cat. If you haven't me feeling emotions. That's not really the melody. Kind of close, but just really not.

The best I can do with this. With this manly register.

That's an excellent song. A great 1991 throwback. If anyone hasn't listened to that in a while, definitely go back and listen to that 4.2 octave range out of. I think she said. I was looking at the YouTube comments. She has like a 5.5 octave range, which is bananas. You probably have like a 1.2 octave range.

Sometimes I wonder if I even have a 1 octave range. I mean, I guess I do. I don't feel particularly confident in it.

But we should get you some singing lessons. Maybe that's what I'll give you for your Christmas present.

Oh, God.

And then you.

Please, no.

It'll really improve the podcast, babe. Maybe I can even write it off as a business expense.

Oh, no. Please, no.

Okay.

You know what I want for Christmas?

Oh, what do you want? I have no clue.

I sent you the link to it.

When we were in New York.

I do.

Xander found a bathrobe that he really loved in this hotel that we stayed in in New York.

It was pretty epic.

Oh, that's right. Okay, one idea for the man who is impossible to shop for.

God, I'm glad I reminded you because I have the TE tab open on my phone.

He really wants this bathroom.

I had the tab open on my phone and I was like, is she gonna remember? Because if she's not, I'm just gonna buy it for myself.

It sounds like you're a little emotional about this bathrobe.

I am. I feel wistful. Oh. About it. Oh, I do. Wow.

That's a specific, very specific emotion.

I know.

That's a. My sad attempt at bringing our very bizarre tangents back around to the topic at hand, which is not just men. We're talking about men and emotions. We're talking about emotional intelligence, which we are just going to go ahead right at the top here and define. Emotional intelligence is the capacity to be aware of, to label, to navigate, and to express your own emotions.

So it's not one's ability to suppress.

Or control their emotions or deny or ignore. No. That is the opposite of emotional intelligence. So, as always, we turned to Instagram to ask some questions, do some polls about this topic. One of the questions that we asked is, if you're a man, do you want to be more emotionally intelligent? And 74% of the men in our audience said yes. And I think that's interesting because we'll share some more polls as we get later into this topic. But I would say overall, the people who follow us, I would say they have a higher average emotional intelligence than any, you know, like a random sampling of people.

Yeah, definitely.

Because you're seeking out accounts like ours. You're wanting to follow, learn, grow. So you already kind of have a little bit more maturity than I think a lot of other people do. So congrats to you.

Hell, yeah.

If you're one of our followers or our listeners here. So today we're talking about some big questions, like why is it that men seem to have fewer emotions than women? Are they better at controlling their emotions? Are men uncomfortable showing emotions? And we're really going to lean on Xander pretty heavily in this episode to kind of walk us through all of this as our resident man here. There's only one of us. Xander's going to be sharing his own story of developing more emotional intelligence, emotional maturity. So he's going to be talking directly to the men, listening to kind of just share his own journey and growth. Give you a little man to man pep talk.

Going to mansplain to my man. Can't wait. Can't wait. Guys, you're in for it.

Can you mansplain to men?

So here, here's what you're going to do, man. You're, you're going to, you're going to sit down, you're going to strap in. Oh, and I'm going to, I'm going to tell you what is going on.

So we're also going to talk to the partners of men. Like, if you're with a man, how you can encourage him to get more comfortable showing emotion, growing in his emotional intelligence. This is something that we hear about all the time, especially from female partners, and we'll talk a little bit about that difference. But a lot of women really want their male partners to be more emotionally mature, more in tune with their emotions. So this is a great episode for you to listen to on your own. A great episode to maybe play loudly and hope your partner overhears a little bit or just ask them to listen to it with You. But I think this is going to be a really interesting, powerful, and important conversation.

All right, speaking of important and powerful conversations, let's talk about our review of the week.

Look at you making that transition.

Look at me making that transition. You know, you. You. The listener would never know if we actually cut or not, but I went straight into that. There were cuts. I did not forget that. There's the review of the week, which.

Is a rare occurrence.

Well, pretty soon it won't be rare because I'm gonna just keep getting it right.

Oh, okay. I like this confidence.

All right, this podcast. This is the podcast everyone needs. Absolutely. Love, Vanessa and Xander. This podcast is full of education, humor, empathy, truth, and all things in between. I came over from Instagram, and this has become my favorite podcast to listen to. As a person who grew up in a house where sex was shamed, I am so grateful to X and V for creating a safe space to learn and grow in this area. My husband is, too. Wink.

Thank you. This is such a delightful review, and we really appreciate you taking the time to leave a review. If you haven't heard us talk about this before, reviews are so important to the growth of the podcast. It really helps us reach new people. It helps people who are just stumbling across the podcast realize, like, you know, hey, this has a lot of great reviews. Maybe I will tune in. And we want to thank you for taking a few moments to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. So we do this weekly giveaway. So if you are selected as the review of the week, you can come on over to Instagram, Vanessa and Zander, our new handle, and you can DM us a question and we will respond with our advice, our feedback. We'll give you a little mini coaching session. It's just our little way of saying thank you. So if you leave us a review on Apple, it does not have to be long. Can literally be a sentence. It can be a few emojis if you want, but if you leave that review, then you will be entered into the giveaway every week going forward. So let's start off with the question, are men really less emotional than women?

I think this is such a good question because I think a lot of guys take pride in the fact that they at least think or feel that they are less emotional. Because guys almost, it's like, oh, God, women are so emotional. Or my partner is so emotional and I'm so stoic. I'm so logical and rational.

Yeah, I think it definitely is the stereotype that women are much more emotional and Men are not very emotional at all. So research has shown men actually experience the same amount of emotions, the same level of intensity of emotions as women do. So despite these stereotypes that we have, it's actually completely untrue. We are all people of all genders. We are all emotional creatures. The difference is that men are just socially conditioned not to show or express. Express emotion. So boys are taught from a very young age, and even if it's like that, they're not directly being taught this. I think they pick up the message very clearly, very easily and very young about what is acceptable and unacceptable when it comes to their emotions.

I think this is. It's really similar to the way, you know, we are socialized for various things. Like, for example, men tend to be more socialized to ask for what they want, and women are socialized not to ask for what they want quite as much. And that that does not mean at all that women don't want as many things as men. Oh, men just want things and women don't want things. Like, no, Nobody ever says that. But for some reason, when it comes to emotions, we're like, oh, no. Well, men just have less emotions than women. Women are more emotional. But it has nothing to do with that. It's just literally the way that we are socialized.

Yeah. So this socialization starts very young, and it continues throughout your entire life.

And.

And I was reading this really interesting article a while back that was talking to trans men. So these are people who were born with biologically female genitals but identified as men. So in this article, they were talking to trans men, and they talked about as they, you know, went through this life journey of, like, being born biologically female, but going through this realization of their true identity, living their truth, that they started feeling all of this pressure that men feel around emotions. So there were people who had gone through this at different phases of their lives. And some people, some men were saying, you know, in earlier stages of my life when I was living as a woman, like, I didn't feel that pressure. I felt like I was allowed to have emotions and express them, and I had a certain ease with them. And then once I embraced my true identity, started living my truth, like, then I feel all this discomfort, and it's like it's not allowed anymore. So I thought that was a super fascinating article to hear how that pressure can come in at any point in your life.

Yeah. So it's like once the outside world starts to perceive you as a man, all of a sudden you start receiving these very different messages. Despite doing the same thing that you've been doing this whole time when it comes to expressing your emotions and all. Like, you know, in the past, when you were perceived to be a woman, you're like, it's like, oh, great, yeah, like, I'm talking about my emotions. No one has any issue with it. And then all of a sudden, you just are doing the exact same thing, but the world perceives you as a man and it', oh, whoa, like, you're going a little overboard. Like, keep it to yourself. That kind of thing.

Exactly.

So we polled men in our audience and asked them, you know, what were some of the things that you were taught to believe about emotions from an early age? And we got. We got a long list of things. So here's some of the more popular ones. Be strong and stoic. Never show raw emotions or anything perceived as weakness.

I mean, I think that right there is just the encapsulation of it. Like, that emotions are a weakness.

Yeah, yeah. Like, strong and stoic or. You know, what I always think of is people talk about, oh, I want to be the strong and silent type. Yeah, you have to be tough. Suppress them. Men don't cry. Men don't hug other men.

That one makes me so sad because I notice that all the time, too. I think, you know, women, we're very physically affectionate with each other. Like, we feel comfortable hugging each other and, like, you know, touching each other's hair and just being more physically affectionate with each other. And I will watch men, like, give each other, you know, a handshake or, like, maybe this, like, clap on the back, but there's a lot of distance in between their bodies. And I think, like, just that simple touch, that simple, like, physical affection can be so powerful and so connecting and intimate. Like, not in a sexual way, of course, but, like, intimate. You know, an intimate friendship that you have. And just that simple, like, you know, oh, I feel kind of awkward, like, hugging my male friend. Like, we gotta do it quick. Do the, like, slaps on the back.

We gotta do it quick. I mean, I feel like we have. If I just think through my lifetime. And it may just have to do with, like, who we are or where we live or whatever. It does feel like we've made a lot of progress in the last 20 years of, like, guys are a lot more likely to hug each other now. At least. I don't know amongst my friends.

It's always with the back slap, though.

Yeah. I don't know. I think I feel like I just Kind of give my friends.

But you would. You would never give your friend, like, I will give my girlfriends, like, a deep, long, meaningful hug. I'll hold their hands. I'll rub their backs. You know, like, there's a lot of physical touch between me and my girlfriends.

Yeah, true. And, yeah, I was gonna say the pandemic has kind of sent us backwards a bit. Now it's. Now it's just always the fist.

Fist bump, though.

Honestly, I kind of like the fist bump over the handshake, because at least with guys, the handshake is awkward. Because when you go in for a handshake, you don't know if the other person is going for just, like, traditional handshake or, like, the hand slap type of thing or. No, sorry, sorry. No, not. Not the hand slap. That. That was. That was more of, like, me as a kid, you know?

You know, like a trick handshake.

No, no.

You know, don't do that.

No.

Like, maybe if you're playing a game of basketball or something.

No, sorry. Not. Not the slap. I got. I got. I got confused.

You're doing, like, a trick handshake. Like, there's a whole little choreographed dance and, like, you bump butts at the end or something. People don't do that when you're just, like, shaking someone's hand. Hello.

Obviously what you're talking about. Obviously. I'm feeling a little triggered from my childhood of, like, oh, God, am I not gonna do the hand slap? Right? No. What I'm thinking, though, is, like, you go in for the hand, and it's like, are we just shaking hands? Or, like, we then going in for, like, the male hug, you know, which is, like, the handshake and then the shoulder. The shoulder. See?

See what I'm telling you? It's always a freaking pat on the back.

Yeah, well, what I'm saying is that is the nice thing about the fist bump, because there is no, like, hug opportunity with.

I'm on board with the fist bump.

Unless, you know, you could start doing, like, fist bump, and then you grab their arm and, like, pull them in or something. Ridiculous.

But we. I had a real weird wet handshake a couple weeks ago, and that was awful.

That is unpleasant. That is unpleasant.

Very wet. Not just damp. Like.

Like clammy or, like, just wash your hands wet.

No, at least their hands are clean. Say I just wash my hand. It was just straight up wet anyways.

Wow. Wow. Okay, so Vanessa is asking for less physical contact now.

I'm just saying I prefer a fist bump over a Handshake. I'm down with that.

All right, all right, all right. What else do men believe about emotions? Suppress. Okay. Cracking up. I. I tried to, like, read. I wanted to say that because this bullet just says suppress them. It didn't sound right to just jump into.

We already read that one. That's why I'm laughing, too.

You know, we had such an aside. I. I lost track.

All right, well, I just heard you, like, trying to make a smooth transition. We're like, let's see, what else say? I could just see your little brain turning.

All right, well, let's see, what else did other men say when we polled our Instagram audience about it? Okay, well, here. Another popular one was something along the lines of, every time I got emotional, I was told to, quote, suck it up and be a man. What are you supposed to suck up? I think sucking it up. Suck it up is a kind of weird term, honestly, Like. Yeah, what are you, like, sucking the air into your chest, like, suck that dick. Yes. Suck a dick and be a man.

I love that. Suck a dick and be a man.

Yeah.

I want to make that into a show.

All right, here's another one. I'll give you something to cry about.

Oh, that's fucking.

Is that like, I'll punch you in the face and then you'll cry because you're hurting or something? Like, it's better to be in physical pain than in emotional pain?

No, I think it can also be about emotional pain, but it's just like. Yeah, it's like, whatever it is that you're feeling is insignificant and, like, it could be worse. It could be worse, and I will make it worse for you, which is just. It feels really brutal.

All right. Emotions are for women. Keep your emotions to yourself. Someone said they were physically abused by their father whenever they reacted to something or responded in the wrong way. I think a lot of people have this. A lot of people have this experience, and that's.

I mean, that's horrific, too, because we're, you know, we're talking so much about socialization and, like, the subtle ways we're taught what we're supposed to do and not to do.

And, of course, this is the direct way.

The direct, extreme way of, like, I will physically punish you.

Yeah. All right. Even though I felt allowed to express emotion growing up, I was praised more for calmness or reserve. Yeah, I can definitely relate to this. I mean, I didn't receive any messages from my family, really, that, like, emotions were bad. We talked about emotions a lot, but, yeah, I Felt like I received more validation from the world and from my friends when I was, you know, calm and collected and rational, I guess. And so I never felt like, oh, God, emotions are horrible. I just felt like. Like, no, like I'm. I am successful in life, at work, in friendships and whatever. When I'm, like, cool, calm and collected.

I would venture to guess that most people feel that, you know, I think most people think of emotions kind of as an inconvenience. And it's like, even if you feel permission to have them or to feel them or, like, okay, it makes sense why I'm feeling that there's still this hierarchy that, like, being rational, not being emotional, like, that's better.

Yeah.

And we get praised for that. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I can't think of people being praised for, like, oh, look at you, you're feeling your feelings. Like, that's just. That just doesn't. I think maybe they're this kind of current generation of parents is really trying to change the way that children view emotions. So that might be starting to happen. But your average person, like, I can't think of a time I was praised for, like, oh, my gosh, that's so great, sweetie. Like, you're feeling X, Y, Z. I didn't get praised for that.

No, definitely not. The last couple were suppress your emotions. Because women see being emotional as a turnoff.

I want to come back. Yeah. And that's definitely more an adult kind of, you know, socialization that you're receiving. Like, if you are sexually attracted to women, you want to be with women. Like, you can't be emotional because they're not going to want to you if you are.

Yeah. And then finally, I was taught to bury them deep within your soul and let them fester in the grave. Wow.

The imagery on that one.

Deep.

Literally. Oh, my God. Let's just take a moment there to pause and think, like, what do you think life is really like? If that's the message that you're taught, Bury them deep within your soul and let them fester in the grave.

I mean, the feeling that I'm getting, like, to kind of paint a picture is like. Like living life in black and white in a way. Like, you can live a life trying to do that, but it's just going to be a very. A limited life in terms of how you feel, how you perceive things, etc, kind of, you know, akin to we can see in all of these colors and see all this beauty and differentiation and like, you know, only being able to see in black and white.

So you started talking about your experience a moment ago. But let's go into that a little bit deeper. Like, what was your experience with emotions growing up? Because you did have a unique upbringing in that both of your parents were really big feminists. So you weren't given from your parents that direct. And you already said that you weren't ever directly told, emotions are bad. Suck it up. I think your parents did emphasize that it was okay to have emotions. Right? But still, like, yeah, tell me, tell me your story, Xander.

Well, yeah, I mean, I, I was definitely, I was definitely shown that it, it was okay to have emotions. I, I don't know if I saw a lot of, like, I don't know if I saw my dad necessarily model showing a wide range of emotions. I was definitely not ever given any messages that emotions weren't okay. But I, you know, I maybe didn't have it like, you know, any great male examples in my life. You know, if I think back, like, one of my earlier memories, I think I was four years old. It was like a preschool, like, summer, summer camp type situation at my. What would then become my elementary school. And we were playing like T ball or something like that. And I remember getting tagged really hard, going around the bases and like, you know, went down on my knees on the, on the, whatever gravel. What, the dirt? And like, yeah, and like, cut my knee open. I ended up not getting stitches, but like, it was about as big of a cut as you can have without getting stitches. And I, you know, I still have a pretty, you know, like a 1 inch scar on my knee. And the kid who tagged me out, this is how much I remember this. I remember like, I have a vivid memory in my mind. I remember, I remember the kid's name. I was four years old. Like, Like, I was never friends with this person afterwards, but, like, I know who it was who did it. He looked at me and he said, big boys don't cry. Like, I, I started, I started crying. I was in a ton of pain. You know, like, they had to call my parents and get me and they had to decide if, you know, I needed to go to, like, I think I must have gone to like, urgent care or something. But I think, you know, they had to decide, like, do we go to the hospital and get him stitches or whatever. But yeah, what I remember is being told, you are not allowed to cry. So, yeah, I mean, and I think so many men have that some type of experience early on. But yeah, I mean, like, I think, you know, me telling you that story is just a testament to. That's how much that memory stays with me.

Yeah. You know, I think that actually can be a tip for people. Like, if you're in a relationship and, you know, you, as the man, are struggling to, like, share emotions, express emotions, maybe your partner's getting a little bit frustrated with you of, like, why don't you just open up more? Like, just talk to me. Just share with me. Sharing stories like that can be really powerful. So it's not even that you have to, like, all of a sudden, you wake up the next day and you have more emotional intelligence, but just being able to share more of your story with your partner and say, like, look at some of the messages that I got. And, like, look. Look how vividly I still remember this experience. Like, all the details and. And all of that. Like, I think it just. You know, the first time I heard you tell that story, it made me feel so much empathy towards you. And it made a lot of sense, too, that there would be certain ways that you struggle with your emotions after having experiences like this. So I think just being able to share those stories with your partner can be very powerful.

Yeah. And, I mean, even now, I've told that. This story a million times at this point, but just telling that story, it brings up some emotions for me. I can feel really sorry for baby Xander, and, you know, I wish I could. I wish I could give him a hug. Oh. Tell him everybody everything was gonna be okay. It's fine to cry it out, little guy. Oh, I'm feeling a little tearful just saying that. Oh, yeah. All right, so. Well.

No, no. Well, here we go. You're feeling an emotion.

Yeah.

What is it that you're feeling?

No, I mean, I just. I. I feel. I feel sad for. I feel sad for that little guy. I think he just wanted someone to comfort him and to hug him and. Yeah, maybe having a little physical affection would have helped rather than a, you know, little boy standing over me telling me not to cry.

What does it feel like to be feeling that emotion right now? You're giving me a great example to work with here.

Yeah. No, I mean, I. I feel sad. I feel sad. Yeah.

Does it feel okay to be feeling that emotion?

It does. I mean, it feels. I mean, it feels good. It feels like. It feels. I feel sad, but, like, it. It's a healing type of feeling of, like, you know, being able to. Being able to feel this thing that I wish that I had been able to feel more at a younger age.

Where do you feel it in Your body.

You're going through all my tips.

I'm sorry, but you gave me a live example here.

I think actually I feel it more in my head. Like, is this more. It's just like a memory. It's not really. Like, it doesn't really feel like anywhere like else in my body. Just. Just kind of. Yeah.

A memory of the therapist in me says, well, that's. You're out of the emotion now if you're just feeling it in your head, which is fine.

Yeah, no, I'm. I think I'm. I'm out of it now. I've. I've told this story a million times before. Processed it a lot.

Is there anything that I can do as your partner to support you when you're feeling an emotion like that, that.

Oh, like that, or.

Yeah, like, just in that moment. So you're out of it now. You're not feeling the emotion now, but in that moment where your eyes started to well up and you were feeling that, like. Well, obviously I kind of went into therapist mode a little bit and like, oh, let's. Let's be in this moment here. But like, yeah, in general, is there anything that I can do to support you when you're feeling that?

I mean, I guess really, like, the. Where my mind first went was not actually thinking when I'm feeling the way that I would, you know, feeling sad then, but more like, you know, if. If I'm feeling, you know, in physical pain because I'm hurt, getting the thing that I didn't get to have then would feel good. Like just some. Some. Some physical affection and some comfort. Um, but. And I think that would also feel good. Just, you know, a little touch or a hug and like, you know, like, oh, letting me know it's okay to feel that way.

That's just what I was about to ask you. Like, is there a specific phrase that I could say? Like, it's okay to feel that way?

Sure. I. I don't have a specific phrase, really, that would be particularly meaningful, but.

Something along those lines.

Yeah, something. You know, sending that message would be great. All right, well, we're out of therapy mode. Getting, Getting. Getting back to my story a little bit. I'll. I'll keep this quick. And as I started getting older, like, I just had this really strong desire. And I think, because I wanted this for myself, but I think I also saw this messaging out there in the world of, like, you know, men are supposed to be self sufficient, and I really wanted to be as self sufficient as possible and really not reliant on anybody else because I felt really uncomfortable feeling like indebted to anyone, especially my family. I think that that brought up some uncomfortable emotions for me of feeling like I had to repay somebody. Not like financially repay, but just like emotionally repay anybody for giving me any kind of emotional support. And so, you know, I started making decisions in my life where I looked for jobs that would pay me well. I didn't, you know, I kind of disregarded what, you know, what did I want to do is more like, this is what you need to do in order to build this self sufficient, self reliant life that, that you want so that you can avoid being dependent on anybody else. And in, in doing that, you know, I really found, I kind of referenced this earlier. I really found that I got a lot of validation and it seemed like a lot of my success came from being cool, calm and collected. You know, I worked in a high pressure consulting firm. A lot of emotions could come up, there were a lot of tight deadlines, etc, etc and like, you know, I think my reputation was always like, I keep everything under control even when, you know, shit's hitting the fan. Like, and like, okay, what do we need, you know, as like the project manager, like, all right, like, what do we need to do next? How are we going to keep making progress on this? And like tune out all the other noise and all of that. And it was like, okay, this is, this is who I need to be in order to be successful.

So there are three ways that men are allowed to express emotion. There are some more, but these are like the three big ones that, that came up for us. So one is in anger or aggression. Like those are acceptable emotions for men.

To feel, but not too much, but like, like an appropriate, like, you know.

Yes, justified anger sex is another one. And the third one, my personal favorite passion for sports teams. You will see men like having so many emotions for sports teams, like crying over their teams and like elation and depression and like the whole range of emotions depending on how your team is doing.

Yeah, it's a great cover for how you're feeling inside.

I think people very rarely, like very rarely will make fun of men for getting passionate and feeling emotions about sports teams. It's just like, oh, you're a true fan if you're like crying over a loss or something like that, you know. So what is the impact of all of this? That's what we want to talk about next. I think the bottom line is that there really is no escaping your emotions even if you Want to be unemotional. You're taught that you're supposed to be unemotional. It's better to be unemotional. Like, the reality for all of us is that we still have feelings. So what's the impact for men if they're having feelings, but they're not allowed to. To feel them or to express them?

Yeah. So, I mean, we went straight to the source and we asked men in our audience, like, what does it feel like when you do experience emotion? And we heard a lot of different things. One of them, frustrating. I don't ever feel like I can get them out or talk about them effectively.

We'll get back to that one in a moment.

I'm embarrassed. I think that's, that's a big one. A lot of, like, shame or embarrassment. I've definitely felt that. A mind numbing flood. That doesn't sound good.

That's a powerful image up there with the festering in the grave. A mind numbing flood.

All right. Even though I saw the detriment that emotional suppression had on my father, I still struggle to voice my emotions. So I think that's really interesting. I think if you talk to a lot of, a lot of men, it's like, oh, well, I saw that. That my dad struggled with this or that my grandpa struggled with this. I saw all the negative impacts. And yet, you know, you wake up one day and you're like, shit, I'm really no different. Like, I. Yeah. And I think that's a really interesting one, is that it's not, it's not good enough to just see that this didn't work for someone else and kind of be like, okay, cool, I'll. I'll be different because I see that this was bad. Like, there has to be some action.

Yeah.

Associated with it. At least as long as we continue, you know, socially conditioning men to behave a certain way. All right. Generally a volcano type eruption of pent up anger.

Oh, the imagery in these. Wow.

Yeah. So, yeah, who's.

Who's.

Yeah, you know, who's. Who's saying men can't feel emotion? We're getting some pretty clear, clear pictures here, I think.

But again, not in a. You know, anger is not the only emotion that men feel, and anger is one of the trickiest emot emotions too. So if it's, if it's all the emotions are just getting pent up and they're coming out in an explosion like that doesn't feel good for men. That doesn't feel good for the people around them.

Yeah. All Right. Well, I mean, I. I have another observation here, which I will hold until I finish this list of what people said.

Okay.

But, yeah, stupid. Overwhelming. Flooding, debilitating. Like a tidal wave. It can be overwhelming and unstoppable.

A lot of, like, water imagery. The flood.

Flood. Wave.

Flood has been mentioned, like, three times, I think.

Yeah, well, I mean, that's good because there is a psychological term that we'll talk about in a little bit. Intense rage. And I get stressed and panicked. My brain shuts down. So I think the really interesting thing about this is that, you know, we asked, what is it like? And, you know, a lot of these men shared some emotions that they feel. They're all very negative things, like embarrassed, ashamed. I feel debilitated. Or like a rage. There's. There's nothing, like, positive here.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that that's. That is another impact of not being able to experience your emotions. Like, we can't just selectively choose which emotions we're going to tune out. Like, if we could just tune out negative emotions, all of us would do that, right? I'd be like, sure, I have no problem suppressing negative emotions. Like, great, let's get rid of them. But you can't. It's either you let feelings in or you don't. And so if you don't allow yourself to experience any emotions, like, you're also missing out on all the positive emotions, too. So going back to, like, your black and white imagery, like, you're gonna have this stunted experience of the world where you're. You're really kind of stuck in that middle. You're not even seeing all the beauty, the joy, the excitement, the love, and you're not seeing the negative emotions too. But, like, yeah, you're missing out on all of that great experience.

Oh, yeah. And. And I mean, I think the other kind of evidence here is like, yeah, when you don't express your emotions very well, when you continue to suppress them, you end up feeling. The things that you do end up feeling tend to be, you know, they're fewer and far between, but they tend to be at the more extreme end of the scale. Like, all these things we just read are really serious in really bad things. Like, they're. They're not good things. I think that, like, if a woman described herself as struggling with a lot of these things, it might be like, like, what's wrong with her? Like, does she have, like, a rage issue? Like, does she need some help? And yet for men, it's like, oh, par for the Course, Sounds about right. Suppressing your emotions can also lead to stuff like anxiety, depression, stonewalling.

Yeah, let's talk about this one for a little bit. So stonewalling is when you're trying to have a conversation with your partner and they just won't respond. Like they feel like a brick wall, a stone wall. And I think this is one of the most infuriating responses for women, like, female partners of men, like, you know, our partners start stonewalling us, and we're just like, just talk to me. Just share with me. Like, open up to me what's going on.

Give me something.

Yeah, give me something. And it can feel very, very cool, cold and, like, disconnected. But the real, the psychological reality of what's happening when a man is stonewalling is that he's actually being flooded with emotions. Back to our word, flooding is a psychological term. You're being overwhelmed by your emotions. And research has shown that our brains actually can shut down in those moments. So it's not that. I think, to a woman, it might feel like the guy's being very cold and withholding, but that's not actually what's going on for a man, actually, in those moments, he's so overwhelmed that his brain is shutting down. He's incapable of connection, of conversation in those moments. So that was always, you know, when I was working with couples, was one of the most interesting facts to share with women, especially who. You know, we. Women can experience this as well with our own emotions. But I think that there's. Yeah, there's such an idea of, like, men being cold and withdrawing that when my clients would realize, like, oh, what's actually going on for him right now is he is experiencing so many emotions and he's incapable of any sort of rational thought at the moment.

Yeah. And so then, you know, of course, this can also lead to health issues. I think we're. We're only starting to scratch the surface of understanding. Like, what, like, increased, like, cortisol levels or, like, basically, like, stress levels can do to you. And so, yeah, like, if you are experiencing stuff like that, then, like, yeah, that is going to have an adverse, like, impact on your physical health in addition to your emotional health.

Yeah. In fact, the World Health Organization has even recognized that toxic masculinity may contribute to lower life expectancy among men. So the stakes are very high here. So let's go back to you, Xander. Like, is there anything else that you want to share about your experience of what, trying to suppress your emotions or being uncomfortable with emotions? Like, what sort of impact has that had for you?

Yeah, I mean, I think looking back, like, I've. Yeah. For. For a very long time, I felt very uncomfortable feeling emotional. Like, I just didn't really. I didn't really know how to do it. And I also didn't see myself as that kind of person. And so when I started feeling something, I would be like, wait, wait, this is not who I want to be. Like, I. I better hold this down. And of course, you know, I'd hold things down. I'd be like, no, I'm this cool, calm, and collected person. This isn't who I am. So if anything happens that leads me to believe that makes me feel like I am not feeling cool, calm, and collected, then I better shut it down. And I'd shut things down, and I'd shut things down, and I'd shut things down until something else would happen. And then I would snap, and I would have a really disproportionate response, like, you know, something that would not merit me, like, breaking down and crying or yelling or, I don't know, yelling. You're not.

You. You've never yelled at me in 15 years.

Or, I mean, saying something really mean.

You've done that?

Yeah, I've done that. You know, or, you know, whatever it is, you know, like, something really small would happen that would. Would be like, wait, like, why. Like, why is he so upset about this? But it would really just be because, like, oh, you know, the last 20 times that something similar happened, I held it down because the way I felt didn't. Didn't feel congruent with the person that I thought I was or the person I wanted to be.

You know, this is a good example of, like, how this can get so tricky in relationships, because we talk about this a lot. Like, oh, Xander's the chill partner, and I'm the one who's like, you know, we were even just talking about it in. There was a recent episode, oh, the Am I being unreasonable? Where I was like, I want to be the chill partner, but I'm not the chill partner. Because the question was like, oh, my. You know, my husband does little things that annoy me. And, like, is it okay for me to be annoyed? Or, like, ask him to change those kinds of things? That was a great episode, if you haven't listened to that one already. But, yeah, I think, like, and we talk about it in a very casual and positive way of like, oh, I wish I was the chill partner. Xander. So he's just that, like, chill, surfer, bro, regular dude kind of thing. And that actually is not a very healthy thing for us to be saying.

Yeah, I mean, look, when it comes to that, there are things that I am more chill about than you. Like, I have more tolerance. I have more tolerance for certain things. But I think the problem with that is that, yeah, when you are like, oh, I am more tolerant of things than other people, and you start to see that as your identity, then. Then when something happens and you're not feeling so tolerant, you go, oh, wait, no, I'm. I'm supposed to be this really chill, tolerant person, so I'm gonna let that slide. And, like, for me, I would just let things slide and let things slide and let things slide. Let people walk all over me or whatever it is. And that would lead to this. These intense, like, feelings of, like, rumination or resentment. Like, I would be like, I would be really chill on the outside, but I would be playing things back in my head. You know, you have, like, a weird interaction with someone on the street or something, and I'd be like, in the moment, it's like, oh, you know, whatever. No big deal. And then for the next five days, I would be replaying it in my head, like, oh, well, I should. What if I had said this? What if I had done this? Like, fuck this person. Blah, blah. You know, like, I can't believe I let them get away with that. I'm never gonna do that again.

Okay, I take it back. I'm actually glad that I'm. That I am the way that I am. Because, you know, for me, it's like, if something is bothering me or upsetting me, I'm much more quick to say something. And like, yeah, there are definitely some times where I could stand to be more patient, more tolerant. But I think for me, it's like, when I express that I'm feeling hurt or frustrated or upset or whatever, it is, like, I need a moment to feel that and then I can just move on. Like, I don't spend very much time at all ruminating about things. Like, if I need to express something, I express it and then it's done.

Yeah. And I can tell you from experience.

And I like that.

It's fucking exhausting. Yeah, it's really exhausting. I think that, you know, I have changed a lot in the last couple of years, and probably the thing that I would say contributes the most to the happiness and the peace that I feel now is I have as much as I. As much as possible, kind of turned off that rumination. I don't I used to. My. My thoughts used to just be full of replaying things in my mind. What if I had done this? What if I had done that? Oh, what if I. If I had said this or if this. I'd be like, looking back 20 years. What if this, in this memory from 20 years ago I had said this instead of that? How would my life look different now? Like, it was just this constant back and forth in my head and it was exhausting. And now I just don't have that anymore. It's like I get to focus on what's in front of me and what I'm doing. And, you know, sometimes I think about the future when we talk about, like, work stuff or travel plans or whatnot. But it's. Yeah, it's not like thinking through, like, the 10 ways something could happen and how to prepare for all those things.

I think that's. That's one of the biggest impacts of being in tune with your emotions and having emotional intelligence is that you can just be. Be present in the moment with what is. Because what we have in the moment on our plates, like, that's enough to deal with when we go back into history and ruminate over everything that's ever happened and the tiny little things that happened five days ago. And when we go into the future and we're game playing everything and getting anxious and decades and year, you know, down the road, like, that's all way too much. And like, of course we all do a little bit of this all the time, but I think, think when we are in tune with our emotions, we're able to stay more in the present and just deal with what's on our plate and move on to the next thing. And there is, like, there is a peacefulness about that. Oh, yeah, let me just deal with what's on my plate right now. What's here right now.

There's a peacefulness and there's a freedom with that. I can definitely tell you that. So, yeah, like, I would also, I would feel super uncomfortable with, with Vanessa feeling emotional, especially if I felt like I had anything to do with the emotion that she was feeling. And so I would try to really, like, aggressively apologize to Vanessa. Like, if I was like, oh, did. And. And I would, like, I would apologize, like, for anything, even if. If I did or didn't have anything to do with it.

Wait, let me share. Yeah. My end of this. Like, yeah, Xander would always. He would apologize for things after. I would, you know, I'd say, hey, I'm feeling this. Or like, this is coming up for me, and he' go immediately into an apology. And so half the time I would say, like, it's not your fault, or, like, I'm not asking for you to apologize. Like, it was weird to me that you would apologize for things that, like, you didn't need to apologize for. But the other thing that came up with apologies is I think you were uncomfortable if it was something that you had done that had contributed to me feeling some sort of way, like you were so uncomfortable with the feelings that came up for me that you would rush to apologize, like, immediately for something, and this was a very frequent disagreement for us, is that I would say, like, an apology doesn't really mean very much to me if you haven't taken the time to, like, hear out the impact. Like, I want to share. Hey, this was the feeling. These thoughts came up for me. It reminded me of, you know, whatever it is. Like, I just want to be able to share even, like, a minute, two minutes of what's going on for me rather than being cut off with, like, oh, my God, you're upset. I'm sorry. You know, like, it doesn't feel authentic.

Oh, yeah. I mean, and then. And then I would get upset because I'd be like, like, well, like, I already apologized. And, like, I think I. I gave you a really thorough apology, and I feel. And I. I felt really bad, and I gave you a really big apology. And, like. And then, like, I wouldn't want to apologize again. I would feel resentful. Like, God, like, why can't she just accept my apology? Yeah. Yeah. I would get super gas. I'd be like, you know, I'd be like, no, like, don't feel that, because I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And it's over. It needs to be over. So I don't need to feel bad that anymore. And I am really sorry that I did that for so many years. That must have been really discombobulating and hurtful. And. Yeah, just, I. I wasn't a very good partner in that way, and I'm really sorry.

Thank you. Apology accepted.

Thanks. See how easy it is, guys? Yeah. I mean, and. And then on the flip side, and this was more in, like, extreme situations, but I can see now how I did end up using my emotions in a really manipulative way in fights and disagreements, because, like, what I was saying is, you know, I would hold things in, and eventually I would snap and have, you know, disproportionate response. And so, like, if Vanessa and I were in Some kind of. In an argument, I would probably be trying to stay really cool, calm and collected as much as possible. And probably to Vanessa, like. Like, I would be looking kind of cold and unemotional and un. Unfeeling, you know, unswayed by whatever was going on. And then I. You know, I could see that that was bothering Vanessa, that it didn't seem like we were getting any closer to any kind of resolution. Things were still feeling really uncomfortable to me. And then all of a sudden, I would snap and maybe, like, really start crying or start, like. Like just kind of word vomiting stuff out. And I feel like I would make it way bigger than it was and tie together, like, all these dynamics that really had nothing to do with the situation at hand of, like, oh, well, I'm a horrible person because I did this, and, oh, I, like, learned how to. I'd learned to do this in my childhood and blah, blah, blah. Or I'd, like, turn it into a big, like, woe is me situation. Like, oh, I'm so horrible for doing. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would try to, like, swing things the other way and, like, make her feel bad for me.

Yeah. So it would. Yeah, it would be like some little thing that he had done, you know, like, forgetting to buy some groceries that I had needed to, you know, make dinner or whatever. So it was like, yes, there was something that you had done, you know, quote unquote, wrong, but it would be this really disproportionate reaction. And, yeah, you would go into this like, oh, my God, I'm such a terrible person, and why must you hate me? And so it's like, then I would end up feeling like I'm supposed to be apologizing to you. And it, again, felt kind of gaslighty of, like, it would leave me sort of spinning in the moment of like, wait, what is going on here? Like, this is something that Xander did to me, but now I'm the one who's apologizing to him, and he's turning something small. The groceries are not a good example, but, like, you know, maybe you'd say something kind of hurtful to me or something like that, you know? And it's like, then I'm like, wait, but how did we. How did we get to this point where I'm apologizing to him from this, like, very small thing that he did to me? It was just all. Yeah, it was really challenging. So a different end of the spectrum, but a different sort of way that. Yeah, your difficulty with your emotions Had a big impact on us.

Yeah.

So let's transition into, what tips do you have for other men? If there are men out here listening to this episode, maybe just like, you know, in the background from their partners, playing it loudly.

Hey, guys, what's up?

Let's have you mansplain to other men. What are some simple ways that men can start developing more emotional intelligence?

I mean, I think the first step is really just deciding that you don't want to live like this anymore, that you don't want to live with these outdated ideas anymore. For me, that was really one of the most powerful things, was, like, I needed to get to the realization that my way wasn't working anymore, that all the stuff that I had learned to do and that I had developed throughout my life that, you know, had gotten me to where I was. And I thought, you know, I thought that I was, you know, doing a good job, and I had it all figured out. I kind of had to realize, hold on. Like, none of this is working. You know, like, things. Things kind of really, like, broke for me, I guess you could say. Like, it was. It was in the. In the midst of the pandemic. Like, I was feeling. I was really depressed. You know, I was depressed about just what was going on in the world. Vanessa and I kept getting into these. Into fights. Like, I would. I would say something really hurtful to her that I really felt like I didn't mean. I didn't know how I had said something. Looking back, what it was was I was ruminating about things. I was feeling resentful about things. And so, you know, I didn't. Outwardly, like, I didn't. I wasn't going around always, like, thinking something about Vanessa. But then, like, I. I would just kind of snap and say something that was really aggressive or really mean. And then when I would play it back in my mind, I'm like, wait, I don't really think that about her. But, like, there was a part of me that did. That did think that because. Because I said it. And it was just, like, it just kept happening. And I was feeling really down on myself. I was already not feeling good about myself. And. Yeah, and eventually it was just like, I can't keep living like this. And I just had to come to this acceptance that, you know, all. All the tools that I think I have to deal with, my emotions, they're not working. It's time to try something new. So I think, you know, just try to try to get honest with yourself. Like, are you. Are you happy with the results that you're getting with the tools that you have or the way that you've been doing things. And if you're not, like, can you come to the realization that. That perhaps you gotta try something new? And so, yeah, I mean, I think, like, one of the ways you can do that is just. Just get really honest with yourself about, like, the impact that your way has had on. On your life. Or, you know, maybe if you're younger or something, or you have a parent or family member that is perhaps really struggling with, like, just being really closed off emotionally. Like, look at them. Like, what impact is it having on them? Like, do you want to be like that when you get to that age or something like that? Or turn it around the other way and think about, like, you know, if you have a son or if you're planning to have a son or if you just have a theoretical son, what do you want? What do you want?

Theoretical son.

A theoretical son. What would you want your son to think or know about? Feelings and, like. And do you think or know that yourself? And if there's a mismatch there, then that's maybe a sign that you gotta do things different too.

So another tip that we have is to tell your partner that you're struggling. I mean, I think, like, in the moment, you can say something like, you know, trying to tune into my emotions right now, but I'm just not sure what I'm feeling. So I think as a partner of a man, I can say, like, hearing something like that would feel really good for me. Like, I'm not expecting you. You know, let's go back to, like, where we were years ago. Like, I wouldn't ever have expected you to go from having a lower emotional intelligence to, like, all of a sudden, it skyrockets the very next day. Like, I understand this is something that takes time, but I think just knowing, like, it's something that I'm trying to work on or hearing, I'm struggling with it. Kind of similar to what we were sharing earlier about sharing your stories and your history about it. Like, just knowing, hey, this is something that I'm aware of. I'm trying. I'm making an effort. I want it to be better. That feels very powerful to hear as a partner.

Yeah. And definitely, yeah, try. Try to share that. Just. Just the simple. I'm struggling. Like, don't try to wrap it up in the this I'm struggling, and here 10 things that I'm gonna do to fix this problem. I think that's a very, like, manly thing to try to do is like, okay, I'll admit that I have a problem, but I don't really have a problem because here's my entire plan for getting rid of the problem so that it will never happen again. And, like, recognize that that's just a way for you to feel better about yourself or to try to actually push the emotion or push the uncertainty away. Because I did that. I, you know, I'd be like, oh, God, I have this huge problem. But, like, it's never going to happen again, I promise. Because here's what I'm going to do. And the reality is when, you know, you don't really know how to fix the problem, otherwise you would have fixed it already. And also, you know, like, you're not going to be able to keep up the momentum of, like, okay, here's all the 10 things I'm going to do. It's like right now you're in a, you know, an emotionally charged situation. So it seems like, yeah, I got this. I can do this. But, you know, as the days or weeks. Weeks go by, you just kind of forget about that stuff and things go back to the way they are. So, yeah, try to just live with the uncertainty of, yeah, this is something that I'm struggling with. This is something that I want to work on. I don't know exactly how to do that, but, you know, I'm going to kind of focus on it day by day. So one of the first steps that you can take, you know, once you're living with that uncertainty of, huh, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm struggling with this thing, is next time you're feeling something, just simply try to label it.

Yeah. What is the emotion that you're feeling? So in the psychotherapist world, we call this name it to tame it. And there actually is a lot of research that has shown if we're able to identify what emotion it is that we're feeling, that helps the emotion pass a lot faster.

Yeah. Now a lot of people might be like, okay, well, I don't even know what the options are. Like, yeah, Like, I definitely didn't at first. Like, I was like, oh, I don't know if happy or sad. If you were like, list out 10 emotions. I'd be like, I don't know. Is pain an emotion?

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I think if you're, you know, not super familiar with emotions, have been given all this BS socialization about it. Of course you don't know a ton of emotions. It's like happy, sad, angry.

Yeah.

Good, bad. I don't know. You know.

Well, the good news is, is that there is. There's a hack to this hack.

A very simple tool.

There's a simple tool that literally lists out all the emotions in a very, very, very helpful way. It's called the feelings wheel. We're not going to, like, go into great detail on how the feelings wheel works here. Just Google it. Just Google feelings Wheel. Print one out, have it bookmarked on your phone or whatever. Basically, what it does is it categorizes emotions. And so I think there's like, three levels of it. Right. Vanessa on the inside is basically the core emotions. And so it's sort of like identifying, okay, what of these is closest to what I'm feeling, and then, like, what's the next level down? And then that's broken down into, like, more specific emotions, and then beyond that, even more specific ones. So that can be a really helpful way to kind of be like, okay, yeah, I think it's something more in this category. And then let's drill down. And then let's drill down.

Yeah. So the categories, the center categories are happy, sad, disgusted, angry, fearful, bad, and surprised. So, like, surprised, for example, the second row off of that is startled, confused, amazed, excited. And so each of those words, like, branches off into other words, too. So it just helps you. You start with those more central feelings, and then it helps you get more nuanced about it. But again, the whole idea here is, like, if we can identify the emotion that we're feeling, there's a sense of, like, oh, that's what that is. Okay, I'm feeling that. And just. Just that identification, again, really helps the feeling pass faster.

I feel like this also. This also kind of works with, like, physical discomfort, too, I find, is that, like, sometimes they'll be like, oh, God, like, I. Something doesn't feel right in my body, and. And that can feel weird. And then all of a sudden, you know, then I'll be like, oh, you know, kind of going through, like, oh, like, what's actually going on with me? Me. And then it's like, oh, like, I have a pimple coming in on my face. And that's like, why my head hurts a little bit, because there's. Because there's pressure and there's just that power, and like, oh, okay. Like, I don't have this weird random illness. Like, I just have a pimple coming aside here.

I have never met a person who experiences more discomfort from a pimple. Coming in than you do. It's like, I get headaches. It has a big impact on you. And they're never like, big pimples. They're very small.

Pressure in my face.

Oh, it's a pimple coming. Okay, so another tip. If you're struggling to name or identify the feeling, a different thing you can do is try to label the sensation in your body. So, actually, Xander's little aside is a nice little segue into this tip here. So this is something you may have noticed when Xander was feeling that emotion. Like, I asked him, like, what does that feel like in your body? Or where are you feeling that in your body? So I kind of did things a little bit out of order because he was able to actually identify his feelings. But when I was in a session with a client, if a client was saying something like, you know, if they started to cry or they're saying, like, I don't know what I'm feeling, or something like that, and they were feeling very stuck. Oftentimes what I would do is go to the sensation first. Like, okay, where are you feeling something in your body? Ugh, I think it's in my chest. Okay, what do you feel in your chest? Like, describe the sensation to me. Like, oh, it's just like a heaviness and a tightness. And then the feeling would come, like, they'd start to cry or like, oh, my God, I'm really sad about this. So sometimes when we start with the body rather than the emotions, because sometimes, like, the act of labeling the emotion, it can get us a little bit into our heads. So if we go into the body, like, I'm feeling it in my shoulders. I'm feeling it, you know, in my gut. Whatever it is, like, that can really help us access the emotion.

Yeah, Because I think a lot of. I think a lot of us or maybe men kind of think like, oh, well, these, like, emotions. Emotions are. It's just in our head. Like, it's only in my head. But the reality is that there's this huge overlap between, like, your emotional system and your physical system. And so, like. Like, your emotions can literally cause you physical pain or discomfort. And so that's why, you know, leaning into, like, where is it in your body? Can actually be really helpful. Like, it's not just this totally disconnected thing. Like, you know, everything that goes on with you can manifest itself emotionally or physically or both, or they can impact each other. Now, if you're feeling flooded or you think you might be feeling flooded, which was, you know, just that feeling like, you're totally shut down. Like, you are. You're feeling so many things at once that you just, like, can't do anything, can't talk, can't whatever. Try to do something with your body instead. Like, go for a walk, do something physical. Because in that moment of being flooded, like, you're not going to be able to label just one emotion, because the reality is you're. You're feeling a ton of things that are kind of competing for your ability to discern. So just doing something physical can really help kind of cut through that noise and kind of help you calm down and get to a point where you can start to label things.

And the trick when you're with your partner is to come up with a phrase beforehand to say that you're gonna do this. So if you just turn around and walk out of the room mid argument, your partner is going to be so upset. But if you say something like, I'm flooded right now. Let me just walk around the block and I'm gonna come back. Like, that lets your partner know what's going on for you. They realize, you know, you're not trying to just completely stonewall them. And it also gives you the opportunity to take care of yourself in that moment and then come back to them. So here's the good news, though. Research has shown that if you allow yourself to truly feel an emotion in the moment when it comes up, on average, that emotion will pass in 90 seconds. Wow, that blows people's minds when they hear that. Because especially if you're not familiar with your feelings, if they feel bad and overwhelming and scary. I think a lot of us have this idea that if we really allow ourselves to feel our emotions, we will get lost in them.

You know, am I going to feel like this forever?

Yeah. It can feel so overwhelming and scary. But the reality is, if you just sit with that feeling, if you give yourself permission to feel it, it's going to pass in about 90 seconds, which is wild. So it's really another, like, therapy saying that we have is what we resist persists. So when we resist our emotions, try to deny them or pretend they're not there, they only get stronger and they last longer. So if we let ourselves feel it 90 seconds, like, we can ride things out in 90 seconds. So I think that's a really good piece of news there. So let's wrap things up with just a little quick discussion about how you can help your male partner. So if you're in a relationship with a man, how can you help him become More comfortable. Comfortable sharing his feelings, growing his emotional intelligence. You know, we asked our Instagram audience About this, and 87% of partners of men said that they want their partner to be more emotional, to open up more often. We do also have a different episode. Episode 44 was specifically how to get your partner to open up. So a slightly different take on this topic, but obviously very closely related. So go check out that episode. That has a lot of great tips, too. But a few that we wanted to share here is like, one, share your own struggles with your emotions.

Yes.

So obviously this episode was about men, but people of all genders struggle with emotions. You know, none of us are perfect at it. And so I think if you share that with your partner, it just helps humanize both of you. Like, hey, I get it. It really sucks for me sometimes, too. I get overwhelmed by these emotions. I don't want to feel these emotions.

And if it's happening in the moment, moment, you know, for, you know, you as a partner, like, share that, because that. That is super powerful. Because where I really struggled for a while, you know, when. When things were more contentious with Vanessa and me, where I struggled was that, like, I would get, you know, I would say something that was mean that I felt like I didn't really mean, and we would be in an argument, and I would feel really ashamed out here, really down on myself, God, why do I keep doing this? This? And then I would start comparing myself, oh, Vanessa doesn't have a problem with this. Vanessa never does this. Vanessa doesn't have problems with her emotions. And that would just, you know, increase. Create a shame spiral of, like, I already feel ashamed, and then I feel even more ashamed because, like, she's perfect. She always does it right, and I always do it wrong. And she's not perfect. She doesn't always do it right. And, you know, it became really helpful when she would point that out. And eventually I got to a point where I could start to actually notice, like, oh, okay, I think Vanessa is maybe struggling with this. This feeling that's coming up for her right now. And then, you know, and then I could really have some empathy for her. Cause I'm like, God, I struggle with that too.

Okay. Another tip is to share with your partner specific reasons why you want them to be more emotional and the impact that you think it would have on them, on your relationship, on your lives together, on your family. I think, you know, for a lot of who grow up thinking that being emotional is a bad thing, if you just go up to a man and be like, I want you to be more emotional. He's gonna be like, why? Like, that's terrible. I don't want to do that. Like, why are you asking me to do this bad thing? So you need to help reframe it for him. Not that it's completely your responsibility, but, like, that's just a great way that you can be a supportive partner is, like, sharing the positive impacts that you think it would make and the specific reasons why you want that. From what, you know, would it make the two of you feel closer? What would intimacy feel like? Would there be more laughter after? More positive emotions as well? So, like, share with him the specific reasons.

And I think part of that is also giving them some reassurance that any fear that they have around sharing emotions isn't going to happen. So it could be like, you know, here are reasons why I want you to be emotional. And I also, you know, I also promise that, like, I won't laugh at you when you're trying to do this, or I won't laugh at you when you are sharing these emotions. I. I'm not going to be turned on off when he.

Yeah. So I. I would ask your male partner, like, what do you think are the worst case scenarios? Or, like, what's the worst response that I might have to you? You know, and. And give him reassurance of, like, that that's just not going to happen. And I think, you know, if we want our partners to be more emotional, we have to make it safe for them to be emotional. So I, you know, unfortunately, I would work with so many male, female couples where, like, the guy would be trying so hard to, like, let a little bit of emotion out, and the woman would say, like, I want this so desperately. I want him to be more emotional. I want him to open up. And then he would do that and she would make fun of him or say, like, oh, like, you know, you're not. That's gross. That makes me not attracted. And. And I think, you know, I want to be really honest here. Like, we women, of course, have had to deal with our own shitty socialization. And. And like, for me, you know, 99% of the time, when Xander experiences an emotion and, like, expresses it to me and shares it with me, like, I feel closer to him. I feel more empathy for him. I feel, you know, connected. Like, it's a positive experience, but I have that shitty socialization telling me that men are supposed to be strong and he's supposed to take care of me and be the provider and like, there are those little moments sometimes where, like, I might feel like, oh, you're supposed to be the strong one. Or, like, you know, I don't want both of us to be feeling something, or, you know, it's just. It gets under my skin, too, as much as I don't want it to, you know, rationally. So we have to fight that within ourselves. Right. And make sure that we don't have negative reactions to our partners and don't tell them mean or hurtful things or have negative responses. Response is, we're all human. You're gonna fuck this up. So part of this is, like, being able to apologize afterwards, but I can just. You know, there's so many moments that are coming to mind of men, like, trying to be emotional and just getting ripped down by their female partners. So I really just want to drill that message into women. Like, if you want your partner to be more emotional, you have to be a safe place for him to experience that emotion.

Yeah, you got to practice what you preach.

No making fun of. No talking. Attraction, you know, decreasing. No calling him a. Or, you know, anything like that. Like, it has to be. There has to be a true openness and acceptance of those emotions. And finally, give your partner a ton of praise when they do, you know, when they do open up, when they share, like, hey, I really appreciate that you shared that with me. I know that wasn't easy. I see you working so hard. It means a lot to me. I feel closer to you. I feel more love for you. I feel more empathy for you. I appreciate you. That will go a long way. All right, well, that. That got meaty.

That got meaty. I think this. This is a long one. Juicy. Meaty.

No, don't say. I knew you're gonna say juicy. I hate the word juicy. It's my weird pet peeve. Juicy.

I know. Well, you know, at least it's not. It's not in a sexual context, a podcast context.

All right, well, we hope you've enjoyed this episode. We hope it's given you a lot to chew on, to think about. We hope it. It really encourages some great conversations between you and your partner. Come on over to Instagram and let us know. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Let us know what you thought of this episode. Leave us a review you. So we can help more men get.

More in touch with their emotions or share this episode.

Yeah, share Instagram.

Share it with your friends. Share it verbally. Share it in writing. I don't know. In a letter. Write it. Write a letter. Just, like, you know, with, like, a really long URL in it. It sounds like a great idea.

Just tell anybody you see on this in the grocery store, like, hey, have you heard this episode? Anyway. Anyways. Yeah. Do all those things.

Do all those things. And now that all that leaves for me is to let you know. That's it for today's episode of Polo Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about our best tips for navigating the holidays.

Oh, boy.