Episode 83: How To Fight Fair In A Relationship: Breaking Down A Listener Argument

So we got somebody to send us a very long text message fight that they had with their partner, and we thought, we're going to go through this step by step and break down. What did they do wrong? What did they do right? How could they have had this fight more effectively and more fairly? Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are talking about fighting, and actually one of the most common questions that we get on Instagram is, do we ever fight?

Of course not.

Yeah. I mean, we're perfect.

Yeah. Relationship goals, Right? Never fight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

End of the episode, goodbye. It always cracks me up when we get that question because, yeah, obviously we fight, like, every couple fights. I mean, I think this is a separate diatribe for a different episode. All about how social media is very easy to make it seem like everybody else is leading these perfect, conflict free, just effortlessly wonderful lives. But, yes, we are a normal couple. Just like every other couple, we have fights. Do you remember the last thing that we thought about?

Well, I was very close to instigating a fight about 10 minutes ago when I was giving you unsolicited advice about your own body.

You thought that was close to a fight?

No, I. I mean, I. I kind of say that in jest, but, I mean, you. You deflect. You deflected with some humor, which was good. And that prompted me to realize, oh, yeah, I really have nothing to say about how you. How you do things with your body. But it could have, like. But I was. It was a total blind spot. I was. I was not even thinking about the fact that I was just being Superman. Splaney.

Yeah. So basically what's going on is that I have to get some blood work done, and I need it to be on day three of my cycle. And I trying to schedule the appointment. And Xander was like, yeah, being a little bit mansplainy about my period and tracking my cycle and all this stuff.

And because I know all about that.

I know.

I was like, I have so much experience doing it.

So that didn't feel close to a fight. To me, I felt like. Actually, I didn't even feel annoyed at you, which is kind of odd because normally my annoyance tolerance is a little bit low. I can't remember the last, like, fight we got into. I think full blown, like, big fights are pretty rare between the two of us. We're definitely much more on, like, the bickering side. Like we. We bicker, you know, some somewhat decent amount.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the reason. The reason why we don't get into that many full blown fights is because we know how to communicate. And, you know, often you get into a fight because there is a breakdown of communication. I think you and I are pretty good though, at. Okay, we've had a breakdown. What went wrong? Okay, we can get ourselves back on track pretty quickly now. That doesn't mean that feelings don't get hurt and there's not some amount of repair that needs to be done to. To feel close again, to feel on the same page again. But very often we don't get into a situation where, you know, we miss each other somehow and then we each, like, double, triple down, and all of a sudden we're, you know, like, looking at each other like across a canyon or something like that.

Okay, so the most recent one that I remember is just last week when actually on Thursday when we were with our team in Nashville, and it was the end of a really long day. We just had this photo shoot where the, you know, photo shoots can be very, very tiring. And I got a little bit cranky because you had shared my water from my water bottle, and I was really thirsty, and so I think I just kind of like I was being a little bit of a baby, and I was just like, I can't believe you drank my water.

You know the funny thing, I didn' think that was a fight. You were. You were having. You were having some feelings. Vanessa forgot that she had invited me to have some of that water, which I reminded her of.

Well, here's the thing.

That wasn't really a fight.

No, no, it didn't. It didn't turn into a fight. I'm just saying I was feeling cranky and I could have started bickering with you about it, but thank God our team was around. You disengaged by, like, you didn't really engage with it. You just kind of reminded me like, oh, I'm sorry. Like, you. You had told me that I could have some of the water, but I'm sorry that you didn't have enough water. Here, I have some more right Here. So you, like, you could have gotten cranky in return and being like, are you kidding me? Like, you told me I could have some water. Like, it's not fair of you to get mad at me for something you told me I could do. So, like, you could have escalated it, but you were just kind of like, you just let me have my feelings, and I was just being a baby for, like, 10 seconds, and then I got over it.

Hey, so, you know, pro tip, if you want to just have the tip and then, like, stop. Listening to the podcast is, you know, sometimes we want to have some feelings. And, you know, you. You gotta let your partner have those feelings and not get yourself all riled up about them. That's so often what we end up fighting. I mean, we, like everyone. What people end up fighting about is because they're not comfortable with someone else having some feelings that. That may have, you know, arise partially because of something that you did. And, you know, if you can. If you can find a way to feel more comfortable with. Yep, gonna hurt people. That's how life works.

Yeah.

It's gonna feel uncomfortable. I'm gonna have to sit with that. And the other person's also gonna have to sit with those feelings. But when we sit with them, we get through them.

Yeah. So, yeah, two easy ways to disengage. Like, sometimes you can use a little humor. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it can work. And sometimes you can just let your partner feel their feelings and not really, like, engage and turn it into an argument. So we have shared arguments that we've had on Instagram before, and we've kind of broken things down of, like, you know, here's what happened. Here's what we could have done differently. We made a little bit of here, or this was some bad behavior, behavior, behavior, behavior. Just got a little bit of an accent there. So you guys have given us this feedback that it's been really helpful to see us break down our own communication breakdowns. And so we thought, you know, how do we kind of take this to the next level and get even deeper here? So we put out a call to Instagram and we asked people, like, we want to see a fight that you've had. So we asked people, like, do you have a text fight? We don't recommend fighting over text.

No.

It's very easy to misunderstand each other, to put different tones and deliveries onto things.

I'm sure you'll see that shortly. I'm sure.

But for the purposes of this podcast, we thought it was just easiest if we had an objective version of what the fight was. So rather than one partner saying, okay, well, this is what happened. I said this and then they said that. And obviously it's just filtered through that particular person's experience. We wanted the objective reality of what happened. The text on the page. Page. So we got somebody to send us a very long text message fight that they had with their partner. And we thought, we're gonna go through this step by step and break down. What did they do wrong? What did they do right? How could they have had this fight more effectively and more fairly? And so it's gonna be this really fascinating sneak peek into a real fight that another couple has, but also very informative and educational about how you can learn to fight better in your relationship.

But before we get into that, we are going to get into this week's review of the week, which is the sex education. I did have. Look at that. They are taking our lines and they are fixing them for us. I love it. Hi, Vanessa and Xander. You've helped me navigate my first relationship in such a substantial way. I've applied tips you shared regarding effective communication, exploring my sexuality, and being open, receptive to my partner in the bedroom. Eggplant Kiwi. Oh, I love kiwi. I'm into the.

I haven't seen kiwi being used.

Sexual Kiwi. I love. I love me a kiwi. I'm 19, second year uni student. You think maybe they're from New Zealand?

Oh, the behavior.

Maybe they're from. I hope they're from New Zealand because, you know, Kiwi, we love.

We love New Zealanders.

Yeah. And hence still young enough to consider this a part of my sex ed. You make pillow talk so hilarious that it would definitely be my favorite class. I've listened to every single episode and have taken your guidance to push myself to make difficult yet gratifying conversations and unfamiliar yet exciting sex acts. And it has all made me feel so proud of myself. Thanks for all you do. Blushing, smiley face.

This is such a sweet review. Oh, my God. I just love that we have listeners as young as 19 and as old as, like in their 70s and 80s. It's just so freaking cool.

Yeah.

Amazing. Thank you so much for this delightful review. Reviews really go so far in helping the podcast grow. It helps Apple and Spotify, like, deliver the podcast as a recommended suggestion to more and more people. So we really appreciate these reviews and that's why we do this weekly giveaway. So we actually have a brand new prize for our weekly giveaway. You get to choose the masterclass of your choice. So we have four different masterclasses and you get to pick which one you want. We will send it over to you absolutely free. So if this review is yours, email us@infomtherapy.com and tell us the username you use to leave the review, and we will get you all set up with your free masterclass.

That's awesome.

Okay, so let's get into our fight. I, first of all, just want to thank this couple for being willing to share their fight.

Oh, yeah, that means a lot to us.

Yeah, it really does. That we can use this as an opportunity for, like, exploration and education. And I also want to say, like, it's a really vulnerable thing to do because none of us are perfect when it comes to fights. All of us, you know, Xander and I included, have made plenty of mistakes, had plenty of bad behavior, and, you know, so it's like, it's very easy sometimes to step back and hear about another person's fight and think like, oh, my God, you guys really said that.

Like, I would never do that.

Yeah, it's easy for us to get a little bit judgy when we're hearing about other people's fights. And so I just want to give a reminder right before we get into our stories, like, we've all been here, we've all said stuff like this. None of us are like, high and mighty and holier than thou kind of thing. So just want to share that at first. And then also to give you just a quick background, I was the one who was originally scanning through these fights, trying to find one that I felt like would be a good fit. So I did a quick scan of this fight, and then I sent it over to our team member, Keely. I said, I think this one's going to work. So can you transcribe it for us? So I have a rough score sketch of what the fight was about, kind of the beginning and the end, but I didn't read it super in detail. And we decided to have Xander not read it at all so he can just blind react to it.

Yeah, I mean, so basically I will be going through this as if I was one of the members in this, you know, like, because the people having this fight over text message, they. They don't know what they're going to say five minutes from now. Right. You know, like, they're. They're just living in the moment saying what they're saying. So I'm. I'm going to be reacting to it in the same Way.

Yeah. So we are gonna read through the fight. I will play partner one. Xander will play partner two. And it's gonna kind of be a little bit of a test for ourselves of, like, how much can we remember about, like, fighting fair and how much advice can we give in the moment here? So partner one is a woman. Partner two is a man. And this couple has recurring fights about how much time they spend together and also about finances. So that's the. The only backstory that we know about this particular fight.

Okay. Okay, let's do it. Should we get. Should we get into the spirit with some, like, special voices?

Oh, my God. I don't know if I can keep that up the whole time.

Do your accent.

Which accent?

Oh, I don't know.

You don't really do a good accent behavior.

No. Just kidding. No voices. No.

When's your volleyball on Sunday?

Okay. No, we're not doing that. Not doing it.

When is your volleyball on Sunday?

6:30 to 8:30.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. Boo. Oh, this is starting out nice.

Starting off nice.

You know, really clear logistical communication. Great.

Okay. Do you want to do a Christmas train ride before that? It's at 3pm 21 plus and runs for an hour, so you'd be done 2.5 hours before you play. Unless you'd rather just do nothing on Sunday. So I like that she's being. Giving him the information. She's tying it into the volleyball game. I'm a little bit curious about unless you'd rather just do nothing on Sunday. This is a perfect example of how tone can be so misinterpreted on text. Is it just like, hey, if you'd rather do nothing on Sunday, that's totally fine. We can just relax and hang out together. Or is it like, unless you'd rather just do nothing on Sunday.

Oh, yeah.

How dare you? You don't want to hang out with me. Blah, blah, blah. You know, so we don't know.

I mean, yeah. So, yeah. If you put yourself in the shoes of this person, if you have. If you are getting in kind of recurring fights about time spent together and whatnot. Do you read that perhaps with a little bit of different tone or something? I mean, one. One suggestion would be, you know, rewording that. Unless you'd rather just do nothing on Sunday. It feels a bit leading. Like, you're saying, like, that this person may want to do nothing on Sunday. Or maybe, like, might be better to bring that up to the front. Like, what were you thinking you wanted to do on Sunday before Your volleyball. We could just hang out around the house. Or there's this other thing that I found curious if you'd be interested in it.

Yeah. We're obviously reading into the beginning of this a lot because we know it's about to turn into a fight. But I think just, like what you're saying, one thing that might have been useful is for her to lead with, hey, I found this Christmas train ride. It sounds really fun to me. I'd like to go, like, sharing her experience and then saying, like, would you like to go? So that she makes it clear, like, this is something that I want to do, I'm excited about doing. I'm asking for your opinion about what you want. But, like, as it's phrased right now, it's not clear to me that she wants to do this. So let's continue and see where this goes.

All right, so partner, Partner. Two jumps in says how much. I also want to be clear how much. No punctuation. Like, no question mark. I'm already.

Oh, you don't like the punctuation. I feel like punctuation is very triggering. Some people feel like the period. Like, a period feels very harsh.

Well, no, no. In this case, it would be a question mark. I know a period would be.

Punctuation can be triggering.

Yeah, punctuation can be triggering. And also, yeah, who knows? This might be how they communicate. But how much? When this is a question. And I. I do feel like sometimes when questions are delivered without the actual question mark, it feels a bit harsher or more of a. More of an attack. Then again, I just want to be clear, like, this. This could just be. If this is the way they typically communicate, like, without question marks, then, okay, that's fine. Like, obviously, it's a question. There's no other way to interpret that. Those two words together.

Okay, so she says it's $30 with one drink included.

Part of me wants to. Part of me doesn't want to do anything. I am kind of into that. Like, yeah, I'm fine with that. Yeah, I. I think actually, this is. This is pretty good. Like, this person is saying that they are feeling conflicted.

I mean, I feel like anytime a plan is an option, there's always, like, part of me wants to do it, part of me doesn't want to.

I just in general, I. I like the language of, like, part of me because it's. It's taking. It's taking responsibility that. For the fact that you have, you know, competing desires inside of you.

Okay, so here's where we start to go off the rails. Okay, then I won't get the tickets.

Oh, yeah. Where'd that come from?

She doesn't have the space to hold that. Part of him wants to do it, part of him doesn't. So she just leaps immediately to the fine. We're not gonna do it.

Yeah, like, oh, he wasn't a hundred percent all in. So now I'm gonna, like, kind of.

Cut us both off from the possibility.

It's almost like a bit of a punishment. Like, oh, nope. Okay, changing that up. All right, then, partner who jumps in. We're just so busy. It would be nice to have one day to relax.

So he doesn't take the bait. He's trying to explain, like, you know, hey, it would be nice to just have the relaxation. She just responds K, Just the letter K. I mean, she's pissed. She's clearly, like, super pissed.

Well, I mean, K, period, would be worse. Buy the damn tickets then Jane.

And we changed the names for privacy. I forgot to mention that.

Yeah, it's not really Jane.

So now he's pissed.

All right. So, yeah, so, like, she. I. She kind of took it up a notch with the, okay, then I won't get the tickets. Like, a little passive aggressive.

And then he tried to diffuse it.

He tries to diffuse. She. She sends a kind of snippy K. And then he ratchets it up with the cuss words, Buy the damn tickets then Jane.

So neither one of them is being very direct and saying what it is they want. They're, like, getting into this passive aggressive, like, punishing with each other rather than just having this clear conversation about, here's what I would prefer to do on that day.

Yeah. I mean, because, yeah, he's. He's. He said that, yeah, there's a part of him that does want to go and part of him that doesn't want to do anything. And he's also described pretty well, like, why there's a part of him that doesn't want to do anything. Said, you know, we're really busy. Would be nice to be able to relax for one day. But they've already seesawed back and forth. Like, she suggested it, Then she's taken it away and said, no, we're not gonna go. And then he's gone the other way and said, all right, God damn it, we're just going.

Yeah.

And it's. I mean, it's hard to be making plans when you're see. Sawing around, and then all of a sudden, it's like they're they're already entrenched in, like, okay, well, she wants to go. He doesn't want to go. Now he's saying he wants to go. And it's like, wait, who. Who wants to do what? Like, who wins? Who wins if you go? Who loses if you don't go?

Okay. So she just says, nah, fine, period. Look at the period. There's the period.

Finally, some punctuation. Yeah, great. Fine, period.

Okay, I'll talk to you later.

It'll be later. I'm going out before I come home.

Oof. Okay, so they're both, like, really drawing distance between each other now. Like, we've had this little rupture. Now we're not talking to each other, and it's gonna be way later until we see each other.

Yeah. I mean, I guess the one thing I cannot tell at. When he says, I'm going out before I come home, like, it's gonna be later. Like, was that already the plan, or is this more of a punishment? Like, oh, now I'm not gonna come straight home?

So I think what could have been really useful here is if one of them had the ability to step back and say, hey, that just went off the rails really quick. Like, can we take a step back and redo that? And I. Again, like, I feel like they each should just be sharing. She should share a little bit more about why does she want to go. What feels meaningful about this to her? It's obvious that there's something else going on other than just the Christmas train.

Yeah. You know what's really interesting when I look back at her? You know the question that. The initial question where she asks if he wants to go on the Christmas train ride, and then she gives all these logistical details. She gives a ton of details.

Okay. She continues with, okay, do you not want to go to Cracker Barrel?

Nah, you fucked that up.

Okay, so we've got some continued escalation here. I don't think it's okay of him to say, you fucking that up. Like, that's a cruel thing to say to your partner.

Yeah. I mean, also, like, he is having some feelings. He's upset. He could have said, I don't feel like going to Cracker Barrel tonight. I know we had that plan. I'm feeling upset right now. But in saying, no, you fucked that up, he avoids taking any responsibility for the fact that he's having some feelings. He doesn't want to go to Cracker Barrel. Instead, he's saying, no, you are the reason that we are not going to cracker Barrel.

Yeah. Okay. So she says, you don't want to do anything with me anymore. You've been so avoidant and distant. You don't want to do any holiday stuff. It just seems like you really don't like me.

Well, this sounds like a great time to bring this one up. Obviously, she's been thinking about this for a while, so.

So, okay, going back to the beginning of this fight, like, I think that if this is something that she's been feeling for a while, I think it would have been useful to have a separate conversation about that and not to tie it into a direct, one specific incident where they could have hung out. Because in a way, it feels like she set him up for a test here. Like, she's testing him and setting him up to fail. So if he is not 100% enthusiastic right away, yes, let's go on the Christmas train ride. Then he's fallen into this trap of like, you never want to spend time with me. You don't even like me and you anymore. So if she was feeling these feelings this strongly, she should have had a separate conversation of, hey, you know, I'm wanting us to spend more time together, yada yada.

Yeah.

The other thing that she does here is she does it very similar to what you were just saying. It's like she's not taking responsibility for her own feelings and sharing her experience. She's saying, you don't want to do anything with me anymore. You've been so avoidant. You don't want to do any holiday stuff. You don't like me. So this is like a very psychology 101 type of thing. If you're training to be a therapist, one of the first things that we learn is how do you use eye language, how to phrase it in terms of your feelings and your experience? Because when you throw you feel this way at somebody, I promise you, you will never have a positive reaction to that.

And it's really easy for the other person receiving that to. To go straight into litigation mode and be like, oh, well, I'm just gonna destroy this argument. You're telling me the way, you know, how I have been doing things, and all I have to do is to negate that is to basically give a counter example of, like, why I'm not doing that.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's just so important to recognize, like, when somebody tells you you feel this way, our immediate reaction is gonna be defensiveness. And even if we do feel that way, it's like, no, I don't. How dare you tell me how I feel, you know, so it just, like, it's not a great way to communicate by telling somebody how they feel. You're just gonna stir up that defensiveness and. Yeah, exactly. Like Xander's saying, like, all that they have to do is find one example where they did want to do something with you, and now your argument is completely wrong.

Yeah, I mean, and I feel like, you know, this guy is about to start doing that in the next thing, he's about to start explaining why what she said is not true for him. Whereas if she had been like, you know, I've been feeling like this. Yeah, of course someone can jump in and say, no, you aren't allowed to feel that way. But that's a. That's a different thing. That. That's a. That's a different kind of messed up thing. It's. It's a lot. It's a lot harder to get into a fight with someone when you are just talking about how you are feeling. Because Vanessa's feelings are Vanessa's. My feelings are mine. When she's saying that she's feeling something, I can be like, hey, I understand what you're feeling that way. That that's not how it is feeling for me, but, you know, I can. I can respect those feelings rather than, you know, the fight being about logistical things. Like.

So I think she would have had a much better reaction again if she had had this as a separate conversation and really approached it with vulnerability. So rather than attacking him and telling him how he feels, to say something like, you know, I've just been feeling a little disconnected lately, and I'm really missing you. I want us to be able to spend time together and to be able to have these experiences together and feel close to each other. Like, if, you know, if I approach you that way, Xander, rather than saying, you never want to spend time with me anymore, like, what are you going to respond more positively to?

Oh, yeah, for sure. To the first one. I mean, I think the other thing about this is it feels like she's been sitting on these feelings for a long time, because now they're coming bubbling out like, you know, she's. She's saying this in a moment where it's 100% not going to be well received already, and she's dumping all this stuff of, like, you don't want to do anything with me anymore, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, one of our other big tips around communication is like, to address small things as they come come up. Like. Like, do not wait until it becomes a big thing. I'm sure all of these feelings that she's having started a long time ago, probably with, you know, individual incidents of them not doing something together. And so, you know, if she had been able to share with him, you know, the first time or the second time one of these things happened, when she started feeling this way, it would have been a lot easier to course correct or for them to get, you know, on more of the same page about it.

Yeah, I mean, I'm really nitpicking into, like, tiny details now, but I think also, like, saying putting labels on people of, like, you're avoidant, that really doesn't feel good either. Like, we want to talk about specific behaviors and actions and words, and again, we really want to come at it more from our own experience. But putting a label on someone like that is also always going to stir up a bad reaction. And finally, the last sentence, like, it's. It seems like you really don't like me. Like, that's really catastrophizing.

Like, yeah. Like, where did. Yeah, where did that come from?

Like, he wouldn't be in a relationship with her if he didn't like her. So I'm. You know, I'm imagining that she was just feeling a lot of emotions, and that's what's coming up in that moment. But when we take it to that extreme and we say something, you don't love me, you're not attracted to me. You don't like me. Like, it's just not a useful form of communication at all.

All right, we're gonna move on then.

And now we've got a big, big speech.

Big speech. All right, let me get ready for this. Jane. I've been living a life, doing things. I work a stressful job and then have a second job after that. In order to keep myself sane, I like to do extracurricular activities, whether it be volleyball or other, with my friends. After those things, I like to sit down and relax and be on my phone for pretty much the first time all day. It's not my fault you chose to stay home and do nothing, leading to you not understanding why I'm on my phone, tired, and want to just relax. I have made conscious efforts to include you in things and try to spend time with you, but it's apparently never enough. And it seems like the only way to make you happy is for me to devote all my time to you. If you can't accept the fact that I am social and want to keep volleyball in my life, then, honestly, I'M not sure how much longer we're going to last.

Oh, boy. Okay, so lots of stuff going on here. 1. I mean, this is really interesting that he's bringing up so many different points that she didn't really address. I mean, it seems like this is something that they have fought about before. And he, like, knows the usual points that she goes through. But if you just. This is why it's so interesting to look at these fights on paper. Like, she's talking about things and he's responding completely different. Like he's bringing up all this different stuff. It's like they're having two different fights.

Well, I mean, just like she did before, she just brought up a bunch of stuff, you know, like she kind of like, cast the net wider. Like, you don't want to do anything with me. You're avoidant and distant. You don't want to do the holiday stuff. Seems like you don't like me and goes, oh, I can play that game. I can go even wider.

Oh, yeah, I know. So it's just not useful for either of them to do that. So, I mean, I think it is important for him to share things like, you know, this is what I need to keep myself sane. And, like, this is the routine that feels good for me because those things are valid. It's totally valid that he wants to spend time with friends, that he wants to have volleyball. It's completely valid that he needs a little time to, like, decompress and be on his phone. So those things are fine, but it's just the way that he chooses to share them. So, like, for one, it's not my fault that you choose to stay at home and do nothing. He doesn't need to make that. That's a mean dig. And he doesn't need to make a dig at her to make him needing a little bit of decompression time valid. So it feels to me like he's defensive of wanting a little bit of decompression time. So I would tell him, like, hey, there's nothing wrong with that. It's okay. And you don't have to dig at her. Make yourself feel better about wanting that.

Yeah, I mean, I guess if this is something that's like, been a long standing issue or something that he can't stop thinking about. I guess, like, that's a. It's a hard thing to say.

And then, you know, he just keeps up with the digs by saying, you know, it's never enough. The only way to make you happy is to devote all of my time to you. So he's clearly, like, feeling overwhelmed, too. It sounds like he's trying to juggle a lot in his life, and maybe he's dealing with feelings of like. Like, he's got all these balls that he's trying to keep in the air, and they all keep falling down on the ground. So I can totally have some compassion for him. But again, it's like, sharing it in this way is just not effective. And it feels mean and cruel to her to, like, make these digs. And then he takes it even a step farther and says, like, if you can't accept the fact and, like, you know, I'm not sure how much longer we're gonna last. So threatening to end the relationship, that's a very cruel thing to throw into the middle of a fight. And I just. I don't love the, like, if you can't accept me for who I am kind of thing. Like, obviously that is true. Like, if there is something about our relationship that we just can't see ourselves ever getting comfortable with or accepting, of course our relationship's gonna end. But phrasing it in that way, like, if you can't accept this, it feels like a threat.

Yeah, well, it's like a take it or leave it. Like, it's, I, this is how I am. It's never going to change.

It shows no flexibility, no willingness to, like, compromise or be a team in a relationship. It's just like, well, this is who I am, and if you don't like me exactly as my perfect self, then you can fuck off. You know? I mean, that's basically what he's saying. So a whole lot wrong with this part here. You know, I understand why he went into a negative place because she. She went into a pretty negative place too. I do think, like, in another universe, it could have been nice if he had seen how dark she started to go and maybe took a second to pause and say, like, wow, it sounds like there are some really big feelings coming up for you. I want us to be able to finish having this conversation specifically about the Christmas train, But it seems like we should come back around and have a bigger conversation at a different time about how connected you've been feeling to me. So I want to say, like, that's kind of a next level communication thing to, like, to be able to stop and pause and be empathetic and try to, like, reset when your partner's coming in hot and hard with the, like, you don't even like me. But I just want to present Alternate paths that this conversation could have gone down.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's really important to try to just be addressing the issue at hand because it's so often that, you know, we get into a conflict about something, it doesn't get resolved immediately. And so instead of being like, okay, huh, we seem to be in a deadlock here. We seem to not be able to resolve this, then we go, okay, what else can I dig up to try to win this fight? Like, I'm gonna win this fight one way or the other. I'm gonna keep bringing things up until.

Everything but the kitchen sink.

Yeah. So, like, I'm gonna keep pulling things out, and then the other person keeps pulling things out, and it's like, who's going to one up the other one until finally the other person goes, okay, fine, I'm a horrible person. I'm so sorry. So. And, you know, unfortunately, in a relationship oftentimes, you know, if you are in a pattern where both of you tend to do this and you are the one who's. Or, you know, you're both trying to stop. Like, unfortunately, you're not both going to stop doing this at the same time. So, you know, it can be hard, but, like, one person needs to recognize, like. Like, hey, okay, it seems like we're doing. We're going into this one upping thing. And so I need to say, you know what? I'm not going to engage with that. I hear. I hear that you're bringing up some other big things. It sounds like this must be really serious. Let's finish the task at hand, the, you know, the argument at hand, and we'll set another time to talk about those things, because those are important to me.

Yeah. One thing that helps me when I can see you going into a negative or unhelpful place is I actually try to imagine the little kid version of you because in the. It does feel like you're being childish, you know, And I'm not saying that in a mean way. Like, I have moments where I'm totally acting from my inner child, too.

You drank my water.

You drank my water. Exactly. So it helps me to think that, like, there's a scared, wounded child that I'm talking to right now who doesn't have the capacity to express himself properly, to navigate his emotions, to, like, know what's going on. Like, he's a kid. He doesn't have adult communication skills and knowledge. And so sometimes when I can do that, and again, it's not always. None of us are ever going to Be perfect at this. But, like, when I can do that, it instantly softens it up for me because it's. It's then becomes, I'm not fighting adult to adult. I'm fighting, like, adult to little kid. And I'm like, I'm not gonna fight with a little kid. You know, I'm not gonna go to the playground and pick a fight with a little kid. It's just like. Like, oh, hey, buddy, like, I see you. This really sucks. And you're scared or you're hurt or you're in pain. And again, it doesn't mean. I think, like, so many of us get into this stuck place of, like, wanting to be right or, you know, one person's right and one person's wrong. I get it. I love being right. But sometimes when I can take a step back from that and say, like, I don't need to win this argument or be the right person. Like, can I look at my partner and see the ways that that inner little kid is hurting? It just. It's able to soften things up for me in those kinds of moments.

Yeah.

Do you ever think about me as a little kid? Little girl?

Well, sometimes I act like.

I mean, that's true. It's like, we all act like little kids sometimes.

Well, I will say, the other day, my phone thought that you were a child. I was looking. I was looking for childhood photos on my phone. I typed in child, and all these pictures of Vanessa came up. Great.

Okay, let's continue. So, partner one comes back and says, and I understand you're busy and social. It's not even about the tournament. I've felt like you've been avoidant the last couple of weeks. It's that you seem like you don't care about me all that much. Like having a girlfriend is the lowest priority you have.

All right, I'm gonna jump in here. There's a difference. Here. She words it. I've felt like you've been avoidant the last couple of weeks. This already is feeling softer.

Like, it's a little bit better.

I'm not. Yeah.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but she's still not labeling. What is the feeling like? You can't say, I feel like you're a jerk.

Yeah, no, no, I know, I know. But what I'm saying is that in terms, like, if. If you're looking at this in terms of, like, they've been turning the volume up this entire fight. This. She's turning it down slightly. You know, it's gone down from, you know, from like eight down to seven.

But then she comes right back at it with, like, you seem like you don't care about me. Having a girlfriend is the lowest priority you have. But. So it's like. It's a micro step, but then she ratchets it back up. Let's see what the next paragraph is. I just want to feel like you love me. And that doesn't mean spending time with me every waking second that you have. Last Friday and Saturday were so great because you were saying such sweet things to me. Okay.

Oh, I wonder if she's.

Here we go.

She's a words of affirmation person.

Well, I just like that she's giving him specific things that she really appreciates. Like, these parts were great. So she's not just continuing down the pure negativity. She's calling back a positive moment and saying, I really liked that you did this.

Yeah. Because that both softens it, but it also gives him really concrete things of, if I do this again, this is something that she will respond positively to. She will, like, like, yeah, I just.

Want to feel like you love me is a tricky one, because it all depends on the tone. Like, it could be a very whiny or even aggressive, like, I don't want to feel like you love me. Or it could be. It could really be shared in a very vulnerable way. Like, I just want to feel like you love me, you know? So the tone here, the delivery is incredibly important. Anyway, she said, you know, last Friday and Saturday were so great because you were saying such sweet things to me when you had time, because I knew you were busy, and that's completely fine with me. And I knew that you at least liked me. Headed out to see family. I'll see you later. I love you. Okay, so this is all really good. She's saying, like, last Friday and Saturday, you were still really busy. I get that. That's okay with me. But you saying these sweet things felt reassuring to me.

Yeah, I mean, I like, I like this because she's. She's basically implying that she has respect for the fact that he's busy, because that's obviously a point of contention where before he's like, hey, like, you're saying I don't spend enough time with you, but look, I'm busy because I'm doing all these things. You know, he probably feels like, as a man, I'm doing this for us. And so, you know, there's sort of that point of contention. And so she's softening a bit by Saying, hey, I. I respect that you're busy, and I can. You know, I can still feel happy when you are busy, when you are saying nice things to me at the same time.

Yeah. So some room for improvement, especially with that first paragraph. But I like a lot of the things she said. I like that she's softening it. I like that she's showing the nuance and that it's not black and white and that she does see and respect him.

Yeah. And also, she ends, you know, instead of it being like, I'm headed out to see family, don't know when I'll be back. Like, she. She softens even more by saying, hey, I'm going out. Like, I'm going out to do something. Honestly, that's probably good for him to see that she's going out to do something, because he's just said. He just accuses her of, like, sitting around the house waiting for him. So honestly, he's probably like, oh, okay, great. Like, she's. She's going to do something, and she just says, I'll see you later and I love you. I think that's really huge because, you know, before he was like, oh, no, I'm gonna be home way later. I'm going to see friends. Not like, I'm looking forward to seeing you later, or I love you. You know, she. So she kind of is starting to tone it down, which is great.

So she's de. Escalating. Okay. What does he say?

Babe, I love you.

Oh, there we go. We've both softened.

And I try my best to show it, but sometimes you can be overbearing.

He blew it. He was. He started off so strong, and then he ruined it. You can be overbearing.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, he has some feelings about this, but now. Yeah, now he's accusing her of being a certain way.

Yeah.

All right, let's continue, though. Especially when I'm stressed and busy, unfortunately, a lot of times it seems like the only way to keep you happy is. Is to go out and do things which involve spending money. And I don't have that right now.

Okay. So, yeah, I don't love that. He just. She's trying to show him the olive branch, and he goes straight back into, like, you're overbearing. And it weighs on me.

Yeah. I mean, and she's also trying to show him that it's not. I mean, I think she sort of implied earlier on it's not all about going out and doing things. She's like, hey, last weekend you were super busy. I knew that I was cool with it because you were saying all these nice things to me. So, yeah, I think he didn't really hear that for what it was, and instead was like, well, no, I know that you're. I feel like you're bothered by the fact that we're not going out and doing things, so we need to talk about this part too.

Yeah. And again, he's really speaking in extremes, like, the only way to keep you happy. So that's another thing that could be really softened. And he's also saying, you know, really focusing on her rather than on sharing his experience and his emotions.

At least he said it seems like the only way to keep you happy instead of saying the only way to keep you. I mean, it could have been worse.

It's a little tiny bit better, but it's still not great. But here's what really interests me about this sentence is he clearly has financial stress. He's saying, you know, doing things that involve spending money. I don't have that right now. So there could have been a way that he could have, like, approached this whole situation with so much more vulnerability. Like, that was the first question that he asked about the train thing. Like, how much so if he had shared. And again, it's like, it's all about leading with vulnerability in conflict. Because when we see our partner be vulnerable, it instantly softens us. Like, when somebody's showing you their vulnerability, we don't want to, like, oh, great, now I can go in for the attack even harder. It's like, oh, you're showing me your little tender underbelly. You're putting your hands up. You're waving the white flag. It's like, I want to be soft and gentle in return to you. So if he had said something like, like, I'm feeling really stressed out about money. I feel like I don't have enough. I'm stretched really thin. I'm not sure how I'm gonna be able to pay my bills or my rent. Like, that shifts the whole conversation, right?

Yeah. I mean, and it's like him talking about feelings instead of. Instead of projecting feelings onto her, because this whole time, he's been talking about you. Like, you feel this. You are this. You want me to do this. Rather than just taking responsibility for his own things, I'm feeling anxious about the finances. I'm feeling stressed.

Yeah. So if he had right from the very beginning, like, we don't know. We don't know if, like, the finances was the main reason why he didn't want to do this. But if it was, he could have said something like, oh, babe, I'm so glad that you found that. It sounds really fun. I appreciate you trying to like find new and fun things for us to do together. I really wish that I could go, but that $30 is just feeling like a lot right now. So I'm wondering if there's something else we could do that's, that's maybe free or something or, you know, cheaper, something like that. If he led that way, I don't think it would have gotten to this place at all.

Oh yeah, because saying it that way would have been. It would have been super clear to her he wants to do something with her. He's saying, hey, you know, this thing feels too expensive to me right now, but I really want to do something with you. It's important that we do something together. So let's talk about other things that we could do together instead of it being this all or nothing train ride or sit at home and do nothing. Where I guess the implication is that they aren't even really going to be doing anything together, even though they could be at home.

What this reminds me of is we talk a lot with turning your partner down for sex. How you should make it clear that you're turning down sex, not turning down your partner. Oh, yeah, it's the same sort of dynamic. So rather than, you know, she instantly felt rejected that he didn't want to go to the train ride with her, and she turned it into this story of you don't like me, you don't want to spend time with me, versus, if he had made it clear I'm turning down the train ride, not turning down you, that would have been totally different.

So even if it's just like I just to sit on the couch and watch TV with you, I want to.

Scroll on my phone mindlessly and have you there so we can hold hands or I can just feel your body next to mine. Something like that. But yeah, I think if you're in a relationship where you often fight about quality time and, you know, doing things together, then taking that approach of like sharing with your partner, why are you turning down that specific activity? So that they don't interpret it as you're rejecting them, you're turning them down, you don't want to spend time with them, that could be helpful. So let's get back into it. She says, I feel like we have to go out and spend money on things to make you happy. Not trying to place blame. It's just funny that we Both think that about the other.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. So it sounds like there's actually, there's a way that they're both missing each other. Each partner is assuming that the other one wants to go out and do things that often involve spending money. So I do appreciate that she's saying, like, I'm not trying to place blame here. It's just, you know, and she said, it's funny that we both think that about each other.

All right, so then he says, then why did you get so upset when I said, I don't really want to go on the Christmas train? That wasn't a very reasonable way to respond. I, at least don't shut down when you tell me you don't want to do something.

So I feel like, again, she was kind of giving him a little bit of an olive branch. Like, she could have worded it slightly differently, but I feel like she was trying to de escalate there and say, like, hey, it's funny that we both have this inaccurate idea. Idea of what the other person wants. And he kind of like, is jabbing it back at her by saying, like, that wasn't a reasonable way to respond. Like, at least I don't shut down. So I feel like he could have, he could have softened.

I mean, he could have. I. I do think that it is, it is reasonable to call out the fact that, like, she did respond in a really short and passive aggressive way. But it could have been like, the way that you responded when I said no. Like, like, it felt like you didn't care about me or something like that. Like, he could have taken responsibility. It didn't feel good when I. When you just said, okay, I'm not getting the tickets. Like, we hadn't even finished that conversation and you had already jumped to a conclusion.

Yeah. So one of my favorite techniques to use in any sort of remotely heated or difficult conversation is to lead with curiosity. So we always talk about, like, the goal during a conflict should be to understand your partner, not to agree with your partner. I think a lot of us are trying to go for agreement. We're trying to have one person right, one person wrong. One person wins, one person loses. But if we instead try to focus on just understanding each other, what is that person's experience? Like, really being curious about what was that like for you? So I get what you're saying that, like, yeah, he's still kind of wondering, like, well, wait, if you don't want to spend money, then, like, why did you get upset about me not wanting to spend Money on the Christmas thing. But if he could have led with curiosity around that, like, I'm curious, what came up for you when I said that? I didn't, you know, I wasn't sure about going on the train thing. So that's just such a great overall tip. Like, whenever you find yourself feeling stuck or it feels like things are starting to head in a tough direction, saying to your partner, like, I'm curious. Like, can you tell me more about that? Like, what came up for you? What was that like for you? An instantly disarming thing, because then you feel like. You feel that sense of, like, your partner wants to see you, they want to understand you, and even if the answer doesn't make any sense to you, it's still like, okay, like, all right, you know, I've learned a little bit more about you. She says in response, I wasn't so upset. I was being short. Classic, like, text miscommunication. Like, she just thinking she's being a little, like, short short. But he interprets it as her being super upset.

I mean, at least she's. That's great that she's taking responsibility for that. I was. I was being short.

Yeah. I was being short, and I'm sorry. I shouldn't have been short. She gets another little bonus point here for just apologizing, taking ownership of it. Okay. And then she finishes it off with. And then you were getting angry that I was being short.

It's close. Like, it's so. It's so close. I think what she's. I think what she's trying to say is that. And then I can understand that you were getting angry because I was being short. I think that's where she's trying to go.

I'm like, no, it's taking two steps forward and one step back. But, yeah, I think you're right that this. It's just a little bit tricky to read via text.

Yeah. And so then, partner, two jumps in. You've been short the past week or so. Buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy. Sometimes. Sometimes you just gotta call it quits.

I will fully admit, like, I know we're. We're laughing a little bit at this couple here, and I again, just want to say, like, it's so easy for us to look at this fight and, like, point out all the things that they have done wrong. I will totally say, like, you and I are very guilty of having a hard time, like, drawing the conversation to a close. Like, we sometimes want to keep going, and we can get each other into, like, stuck in difficult places. Just like this, because you're just. We. You know, one of us is like, well, let's keep going. Well, you were short last week. Well, you did that last time. You know, so it's like, we do this too.

We.

We have a hard time. Just like, hey, we can be finished here. Let's stop.

Yeah. I mean, and I can acknowledge that it can feel tough in the moment. You. You know, you are upset with someone for something, they make an apology for it. I think there. I think this is. The issue with apologies, is that sometimes we know that we want an apology from someone, but what happens is we get an apology in the moment, and it doesn't make the feelings go away that we're having. And so it can be tough because you're like, okay, well, I want this person to apologize. I want them to apologize. And then they apologize, and you're like, oh, but I still have feelings. And instead of being like, all right, I'm still having feelings. Those are my feelings. I'm gonna sit on this for a little while and see how it feels, you know, in the next day or two as I, you know, sift through the fact, okay, this person did apologize for this. Do my feelings start to subside? But instead, this. This person goes, oh, well, I'm still feeling upset, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep talking about the thing that you just apologized for.

Double down.

Yeah, double down. So, yeah. You've been short the past week or so. It seems like everything I do that doesn't involve or include you makes you upset.

Yeah. So just, like, he can't. He's not taking in the apology. He's not even saying, like, thank you for ap. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I heard you.

I heard you. Yeah. It's like he didn't even read what she wrote at all. He's just, like, continuing the same conversation, and he again, brings it back to these extremes. Everything I do that doesn't include you makes you upset. So another quick tip. Taking out the words always, never, everything, nothing. Like, any extreme words like that, number one, they're just not true. Like, I promise you, there's something he did that didn't involve her, that didn't make her upset.

Nothing is ever true.

Nothing is ever.

Nothing is always true.

Completely true. Yeah. So just take those words out of your vocabulary, because they're very triggering. But, yeah, it's like, he's not quite ready for this fight to be over. He just, like, is digging himself into the trenches again.

Yeah. So, I mean, like, yeah. What would have been way better for him, even if he's feeling those feelings, is to be like, okay, she just apologized to me. I'm going to give myself 48 hours to decide if I want to have another conversation with her, because it feels like there are more. There are more instances than this specific one that we're talking about that I want to bring up, but it's not fair to bring up a bunch of other things from the past, especially when he's not even giving details or examples of what they are.

Yeah, it's just gonna make her feel punished and flagellated. She's saying, I'm sorry, and he's like, yeah, you better be. Look at all these terrible things you do. And now, yeah, he's bringing in all these other instances that haven't been been discussed that he's not specifying. So I think that's great advice to, like, just accept the apology in the moment. Say, thank you. I appreciate you apologizing. And if he still feels like there is this overarching pattern of, like, she's been really short with me, and there are a lot of, like, instances where it's happening, then have a separate conversation about that.

Yeah. And you can have that conversation without negating the apology.

Yeah, that.

That you accepted. You can say, hey, I've been. You know, I really appreciate that you apologized to me the other day. I've been thinking about it, and, you know, I'm realizing that there's. There's a number of other situations where, you know, felt like something similar happened, and I was hoping that we could talk about them. Here's how I. Here's how I am still feeling about those other situations. So you can acknowledge, hey, I know you apologize for that, and thank you. Like, we're good on that one. And there are three other situations that I'm still having some feelings about.

Here's another thing, too, because this is something that comes up very often in our relationships, is both of us are very willing to apologize. Sometimes Xander apologizes a little too quickly where he's apologizing for something, and I'm still sitting in the feelings of, like, wait, like, I haven't even expressed to you what I'm feeling. How your actions or words, like, evoked those feelings in me. And so the apology feels premature. And sometimes it genuinely is. Sometimes Xander's feeling a little anxious and uncomfortable, so he, like, jumps straight to the apology of, like, can we just be done with this? You know?

But sometimes who doesn't want to be done?

Yeah, sometimes it's Just, like, I just need a little bit more time to feel the feelings, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that, like, the second someone apologizes, you have to, like, let go of everything.

Yeah.

So sometimes what I'll say is, like, you know, I really appreciate the apology. Thank you for saying that. Like, can I tell you a little bit more about what that felt like for me? So it's not a. Like, it's. It doesn't give the vibe of, like, yeah, you're bad and you're apologizing, so let me keep whipping you and making you feel even worse. Like, I want to share with you what that was like for me. And so you're doing it in a really gentle way. Not a. Like, thanks for the apology. You're still an asshole, and you still really fucked this up, and I still hate you. It's like, you know, hey, I really appreciate you apologizing. There's just. There's some feelings that are coming up for me that I feel like I haven't quite shared, and I just want to express to you, like, you know, when I heard that, this was the feeling that came up for me, and this is what it was like for me. And you can even reiterate. Like, I hear the apology, and I appreciate it. I just, you know, I just want to be able to share a little bit more.

Yeah. I mean, or even it could be like, hey, I hear you apologizing, and I appreciate that I'm having some feelings right now. X, Y, and Z. I'm not sure. I'm not actually ready. I'm not ready to hear that apology quite yet. Yeah, can we. Can we come back to this in a couple of hours? But if you do that one, you do have to offer to come back to it, because what's not fair is to be like. Like, I'm not ready for that. Goodbye.

Yeah.

Because then that's like, you're basically saying, like, I don't really ever want to hear your apology, or that's how it can feel to the other person. But, yeah, you. It is fine to push it off if you're like, you know what? I'm not able to hear this right now. I want to be able to hear it, and I want to be able to have this thing be done with. So when I get home later, let's. Let's just finish this up.

So she says, I just apologized to you.

You. And then he says, I was explaining why I was getting angry.

So, yeah, I think that's exactly the case. Is like he didn't feel heard yet and he, he wanted to be able to share more about what he was feeling. So I think the advice that we just gave could have been very useful. So she says, I understand, babe, I'm sorry for making you feel bad because I was short. So that's great. I understand. Such a great thing to say. Even if you like, like, even if it's not how you would have felt or what you would have done. Just saying I understand it's so validating to your partner or like, I get it, I understand how I could have felt that way for you. Any sort of validating comments like that are super, super helpful. Then she says things have been kind of depressed mixed with feelings. Like, you are distant. So here again, I think this is a case of her not sharing her own feel. I think she should have said, said like, I've been feeling kind of depressed.

Yeah. And I've, I, I haven't told you that until now. I wish I had told you sooner. Like, I think she's sort of trying to take responsibility for like, hey, I, I've been feeling some things, but it would have been great if she was just more explicit. Like, you know, like I'm, I'm realizing that I've been feeling a little depressed this last week or two and unfortunately I, you know, I didn't feel comfortable sharing that with you till just now. And that also maybe informing like the way that I was behaving.

And again, she does go back into it with like, you are distant. It's like she's now having a hard time like letting go of the thing. But I, I appreciate the, the first two sentences of that.

Yeah. And so then he, he hears that vulnerability and says, I'm sorry, it's been feeling like I'm distant.

Oh, love it. Gold star.

Yeah. So I mean, I think this is a good example for all of you listening is that it doesn't have to go perfectly in order for conflict to be resolved. I think that that's maybe one of the big hurdles for a lot of people. They hear us talk about and go, that's like 10 steps beyond where we are. There's, I don't know how we can ever get to that end State. So what's the point in trying? Or like we're just going to be stuck in this, you know, in this place of constant bickering or big blow up fights because there's no way that we can, you know, achieve that. But look, here's the thing. Like, like there are A lot of mishaps throughout all of this, and yet these people are still getting to a resolution fairly quickly.

Yeah. And also, I think it's important to say, like, you can apologize that your partner has had an experience without you having to say that that was true. Like, he says, I'm sorry it's been feeling like I'm distant. So he's not acknowledging, like, I am distant. He's not saying, I'm sorry I've been distant. Like, he might not feel like he's been being distant at all, but he's saying, like, it's been feeling like that to you. So he's allowing her experience to be true without negating his own, which is really nice. And again, this one's all about delivery. I think we've all had experiences with somebody saying, like, I'm sorry you feel that way, and it's like, that's the most bullshitty apology ever. Like, that's not an apology. I'm sorry you feel that way. But, like, if it's. If it's delivered with this positive intent of, like, I'm really sorry that that was the experience that you had. I'm really sorry that that's what it felt like for you, then that feels like a more genuine. Like, I'm honoring and acknowledging your reality, even if it's not something that I completely agree with.

Yeah.

So I think that's great.

All right, so he continues on. I'm busier than I was and homeless. It's not that I don't love you and don't want to be with you. I just don't have as much time, and I apologize.

Okay, so he's really being vulnerable, too. Like, he's got a lot going on right now. He's super busy. It sounds like there's some.

Yeah, he does have a permanent place to live.

Yeah. I mean, I completely understand all the financial stress, the time stress. Like, it's all making a lot more sense. So this is exactly what we mean is, like, when we share that vulnerability with each other, it just softens things. This is not a fricking fight about a Christmas train ride. This is a. I've got so much on my plate, and I'm overwhelmed, and I don't have security in my life. Life. And I love you. And I'm trying to figure out, like, how do I make the space for my survival and for this relationship that's important. This is a totally different fight.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think the thing is, is that, like, he may have felt like oh, well, he might. If you asked him in the moment, why didn't you lead with any of this stuff? You know, he might have said, oh, well, we've already talked about that. She should already know. She should already know that. But, like, here's the thing, is that your part partner can't read your mind all the time. Like, they're not. No one is in our heads the way that we are in our own heads. And so, yeah, you're gonna have to repeat things. It's totally fine to repeat feelings that you have or repeat a situation that you are in if that. If that situation, you know, if that sort of justifies the way that you are responding to things. So, you know, like, yeah, I can. I can see how you'd be like, oh, well, she knows that I don't have a permanent place to live. She knows I'm working two jobs. She knows that I'm having a hard time with money. But it doesn't hurt to just continue saying that, hey, I'm still feeling really stressed out about the financial situation, and so I'm not up for spending $30 right now, even though I really want to spend time with you. So let's find something else that we can do that doesn't cost $30, and we can spend time.

And this really and truly is almost always the case with fights. Is that the thing that we think we are fighting about is not the thing that we are actually fighting about. And it's our task to work together as a team to uncover what is that underlying issue. Because when we talk about that issue with compassion, with curiosity, and as a team, that's the key to successfully and fairly resolving conflict. Okay, so let's close this out. She says, okay, boo. Thanks for saying that. I love you.

I love you, too.

All right, so the last thing I would say to this couple is, like, there's obviously other stuff that the two of them should discuss. The conversation should not end here. I'm glad they got to the point where they both apologize. They felt like they could move on. These issues are clearly still here. So I feel like, like, one little thing I would have said is, like, hey, can we come back around to talking about this, you know, some other time?

Or, like, let's continue checking in about how much time we're spending with each other. Let's, you know, let's check in weekly. How is this last week in terms of, you know, quality time together? Or words of affirmation, if that's important, like, how are you feeling? Like, what could you know, what could I be saying? What could I be doing? What could you be saying? What could you be doing? Doing for each of us to be feeling better about, you know, the things that we're feeling insecure about.

Yeah. So we are going to link our mental load workbook in the show notes for you because one thing that we noticed when we were going through these fights, like not only this one, but all of the ones that got submitted for this episode, is there were a lot of fights about mental load. Who was responsible for what one person feeling like they're carrying way more of the mental load. One partner, like, not understanding at all what the mental, mental load is.

Hey, I'm just trying to help.

Oh, yes, that question. Or just tell me what to do. I'll do whatever you want. So we are going to link that for you. It's a very practical, like one of our most straightforward things that we offer. Just really helping break down, like, what is mental load? Why is it important? Why is it ruining your relationship and how you can make it stop ruining your relationship? And very practical techniques for dividing up the mental load in a way that's going to feel good in your relationship. So if you find yourself, yourself having frequent arguments about mental load and responsibilities, then definitely make sure to check that out. All right, well, that wraps up this fight.

Yeah.

Learn how to fight fairly.

They did it. They did it and we did it.

So we're really curious to know what you thought about this format. Was it useful to have this real life example? And again, thank you to this couple for allowing us to dissect your fight. So let us know, did you like this format? We actually have another fight that we already have in the queue that we could do. Again, kind of walking through this exact same one.

I think we have an infinite number of fights that, you know, we could get access to because all y' all have fights and so do we.

Send us your tax fights. But let us know if you liked this format and if you want to see another one. I'm actually just scrolling through it right now and it is like double the length and I believe this one is about money. So if you want to hear a long ago ass text fight about money, then let us know.

All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week when we talk about how to spice up missionary sex.